Brimp
Brimp
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Pretty hard to IMO. Once you know the imbalances of the game they will stick in the back of your mind nagging at you even if you try to ignore it.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101427#Comment_4101427
That's their goal. I assume that's the data if killers don't get big changes lately.
I did play as a pig last night on disturbed ward with stbfl, brutal, bamboozle and forever entwined, without dash addons - 4k2.
I don't know man, when you stop breaking pallets all the time and start properly mindgaming people you get good result, what else can I say?
I did play 2 matches on pig yday and both matches ended up being 4k… m1 killers are not that bad if you can play smartly.M1 killers are indeed that bad. Play against any competent players and you will be dog walked. Theres a point where a killers kit is so fundamentally weak (like pig) that even if you're the best player in the world on them you are going to struggle a LOT to keep up with any efficient survivors especially in current pallet density when there's another pallet 10 meters away. Getting semi-consistent 4k's as pig is just a tell of what kind of survivors you go against let alone one running STBFL as their best perk.
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I noticed that too. Saw a clip of 8 pallets behind on the side of the green house in disturbed ward.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101143#Comment_4101143
No, I never said it gives me 10 seconds more.
It mostly happens to randoms and surviviors I go against.If pallet density doesn't allow you to kill surviviors, that's skill issue. This work for both sides.
Why can't we push killers to get better, if they care much more to get wins? Even tho they win more than their 60% matches.
I know I said "you" but I meant that in general. And the reversal of "if pallet density doesn't allow you to kill survivors, thats a skill issue" just doesn't work for the majority of the roster in the game. A lot of killers COULD play around with less pallets as survivors would actually have to conserve resources more carefully or else that killer would become really strong in that part of the map. But now that there's one every few feet (Literally saw 8 all within a 30-meter width of disturbed ward) they become SIGNIFICANTLY weaker and that's no debate to oppose.
Also where's the stats that killers win more than 60% of their matches? BHVR has only ever given out kill rates (last stats were several months ago) which kill rate does not equal win rate. They may meet a 60% KILL goal but its not the same as a win. -
@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100982#Comment_4100982
Surviviors shouln not be pounching bags.
They need something else than pallets and windows, because a lot of killers dont care about them.
Like I said before, killer queue time is terrible because there is too much killers and not enough surviviors to fill the 1:4 player ratio that is required for a game.
Nerfing surviviors when their experience is a lot of the times unenjoyable and repetitive isn't healthy for the game.
It's not always 20-30 second longer chase because of exhaustion, this might be 5-10 sec longer chase and people will still die.
Killer mains should stop talking like they always play against eternal or praxis, that's just not the case for the 99% of your playtime.
You seem to forget that most of the games end at 4k3, 4k4, 4k5 and you have above 60% winrate by default.Like you said - if average surviviors is low tier then how are we supposed to balance game around high tier surviviors?
They are minority.Respectfully if an exhaustion perk only allows you to survive 10 seconds longer, skill issue. 3 second of haste should be plenty to reach a pallet/window especially in current pallet density. I say balance around competent survivors because we SHOULD be trying to push for people to get better and not settle for mediocrity and balance around it in a PVP game.
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@sonata93 said:
Yes, but it balances out. Say you go against a survivor and the chase is extended due to a use of Lithe… add up all the tokens from Pain Res and the time gens are locked with DMS… how much time in gen repair is lost to that? Not to make it an “us versus them” argument, but you gotta admit, the killer meta is just as frustrating to go against as it is to go against 4 exhaustion perks in a lobby.
2-3 mins is very generous. Sure, top MMR/P100 survivors you may get that, but mid MMR/casual players, an extra 2-3 mins due to exhaustion perks is unrealistic. I say this as a survivor who runs Lithe and whilst I’m fairly “good” at the game, 2-3 mins chase is unattainable for most players. A P3 Meg running Sprint Burst is hardly going to lose you the game.
I'm assuming you're referring to me so I'm going to say no just because high tiers are in the game doesn't balance out exhaustion especially in current pallet density. If it was 2021-2022 pallet counts MAYBE you could justify some exhaustion perks being as strong as they are now but when there's a pallet within a sprint burst distance nearly anywhere on the map…. no.
You also didn't read what I said in the second part. How much time TOTAL. 2-3 minutes extra wasted because over the coarse of the match you have to chase each person with an exhaustion perk extending each chase on average about 20 seconds for little to no input is insane. 20 seconds chasing or in other words up to 60 extra seconds of gen efficiency time. Trying to use pain res DMS as a comparison is just not equivalent either. If it was Dead Mans Switch in its strongest state sure but only blocking and regressing one gen by 20% is hardly the same thing and even then, that has a requirement of only unique hooks so only 4 per game while the strongest exhaustions requirements are no effort on the survivors end.
And I usually am more stressed at my teammates than I am killer builds as the average survivor in this game just is a VERY low bar in all honesty. So, trying to balance around them by saying (not you particularly) "oh this isn't so bad because X bad players use it and don't do well!' is not it.
This goes without saying I try to balance around people actually being competent. Not the P3 meg because balancing around bad players is just not healthy for a strictly PVP game. -
@cammoking123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100873#Comment_4100873
What's wrong with them? I know some people think two seconds of speed are overpowered, but they're really not.
3 seconds of running faster than a killer creates big discrepancies of killer roster strength. Sure, against nurse or blight it doesn't do much but that's a nurse and blight issue meanwhile a LOT of killers just suffer from the pre-run distance they allow. Sprint Burst and Lithe provide WAY too much value for how little input they require and when they can be ran on each survivor in the game is really strong. They should at least have an earning requirement for how powerful they are.
Those perks single handedly are the reasons why killer diversity is thinning since who wants to play hold W simulator? Play a killer with just better mobility, super oppressive chase power and a little mobility or a good mix of both. All this just stems from sprint burst and lithe being too strong.
You literally have to look at it like "Ok if this is used at least once every chase with a survivor how much time total does that waste for some killers over the coarse of the game" and you'll notice in the case of sprint burst or lithe it could easily add up to 2-3 minutes which is a LOT of time for such low skill investment. -
Yeah unfortunately you'll get people that are HARD pressed to not give the abandon option when you are in a clear state of loss. And given BHVRs TOS on the game is EXTREMELY pick and choose-y in terms of who they can ban we should honestly allow killers to abandon while gates are open. Its always funny when people talk about anti-toxicity but if a killer dare not want to have their time wasted by people sitting in the exit gates and t-bag they suddenly pipe up and appear.
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Honestly either just nerf vigil to not affect exhausted or nerf it down to 30% faster recovery. Its biggest problem is it enhances the strongest set of perks in the game so much while also affecting stuff like anti-heal, exposed, hindered, oblivious and blindness in an AOE for teammates as well. It's just TOO loaded of a perk to exist in its current state. The nerf they gave it to remove stacking was the least they could have done to the perk after they buffed its effectiveness by 220% which is insane to think about it like that.
Oh yeah make it unable to affect hindered from killer powers like Clown and Freddy since we're going the route of adding "basic" and "special" breaks for perk activation requirements. -
@Slurp_Ramen said:
This was not latency, nor a one off thing, he was sitting at a consistent 40-50 ping, and all of his chainsaw hits were like this; a mile away nowhere close.
I’m not saying the curves are ridiculous, because he had double turn rate, it’s just there’s no scenario where he’s getting hits like this while I’m behind him.
And again he didn’t even have speed limiter so why didn’t I just go down if it’s just lag?
I’ll try and get my duos PoV clip that he sent me but the quality is gonna be absolute garbage edit: I can’t feasibly get the clip on here, everytime it say the file isn’t supported, I could just upload it to YT like the other one but it’d be unwatchableStill hard to say from just words and a single clip. There was bugs in the past that allowed killers to perform actions during animations like Wesker being able to grab in the tentacle wind down specifically after bounding.
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The curve doesn't seem too crazy except for the astronomically high ping and Speed Limiter is now Cracked Primer Bulb. That curve is possible without over drive but is noticeably harder with a Badham bush in the way. Unfortunately, we would have to see more examples to determine if they were a cheater or not.
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I would say stuff that puts you in a more favorable position with near effortless input on your end. I don't have an issue with second chances when they are inherently earned or are in a healthy state or largely healthy with a few exceptions. Original DS for example was not a healthy second chance perk as you just got to wiggle off for basically free and extend a chase. Now it's a healthier variant that at least requires the killer to be tunneling but can be lost by progressing the game in a multitude of ways.
There's also undying giving you another chance to keep your hex with no input other than using another perk slot. Of course you still have to try and keep your hexes but you still have that one fail safe.
There's also more I guess "gray" (depending on how they were used) second chances like: Noed, No Way Out, Sprint Burst, Dead Hard(when next to a pallet), Dramaturgy, old endurance Off the Record, release Mettle of Man and by now… with 15 second BT off hook specifically the haste part of it. -
Sprint Burst, Lithe and Dramaturgy need reworks or nerfs. These perks are probably the biggest bottle neck to balance on the survivors end like how nurse is to perks (bring back 2 second aura linger on Awakaened Awareness). People REALLY underestimate running faster than the killer for even 3 seconds or the on-demand haste of Dramaturgy. Not to mention the pairing with vigil in sprint burst case is absurd.
It just worsens the pre run shift W problem against the killers that already don't have good map mobility leading to those players either sticking to one tricking or just moving to a higher tier killer that can deal with it better which lessens killer diversity. Since it's a lot harder to bring a killer UP to a level that they're still enjoyable to face against. -
For the "killers have many undetectable perks" the difference is survivors are third person. Survivor can hold check spots that even with undetectable especially mid chase they become virtually impossible to sneak up on. With killer literally ANY LOS broken is opportunity to slip away especially on maps with tall objects or lots of walls. Any time you would mind game yourself became a guessing game of "where did they go" with cross examination in play.
In my opinion this comes down to Elusive being such a loaded status effect. If it (in cross examinations case specifically) hid scratch marks and auras sure because then at least blood and grunts of pain would be trackable. But nearly all forms of tracking outside of visibly seeing the survivor no. -
Sorry we are too busy shadow nerfing skull merchant (D tier killer btw) to extend the event.
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@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096966#Comment_4096966
Killers were upset people didn't want to play vs camp + tunnel + 4 slowdowns every game so BHVR put in a detection system that punishes you if it suspects you died too fast.
You should be thankful, they were going to make it give you a DC penalty.Fun fact: this also affected the other survivors in your game and people would rightfully complain about it. That and people would give up vs literally anything that didn't go their way.
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I'm going to keep it real. Probably the worst anniversary this game had. The event queue is just bad with poison being very un-interactive depending on the killer, the insane buffs the survivors get for completing the tables or using the morsels on their own and the lack luster "finale" the desert portion is supposed to be when 1 gen is left.
Not to mention the cakes. BHVR knew no one liked them being reduced last year so trying to double down this year with reduced cakes is honestly quite baffling. Like sure they did buff them to 1 per blood web and "Common" rarity (still a fixed amount but you spend less on them) nearly halfway through the event, but it still left a sour taste in my and many others mouths. That and the cake amounts are still mandated which year eight and under felt nowhere near a mandated amount of cakes.
I honestly wouldn't mind going back to the year 4-5 formula where it's just a couple replaced hooks/gens that grant a bonus category of blood points when used and the occasional crown randomly spawning on the map you could claim. It's simple, doesn't really impact gameplay and no one really complained about except for needing to escape with a crown as survivor. -
I've seen people give up against TRAPPER. This would just not work. There's also the fact no matter how bad a killer can be (example being skull merchant) people will STILL give up even though they were a HUSK of their former selves.
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So how would you determine if the player threw themselves into the killers face post unhook.
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It's not whos making it is what I'm worried about. It's the "it's for the fans" I'm worried about as usually movies like that are… painfully mediocre.
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@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096397#Comment_4096397
The 8th hit requirement is actually something I like b/c it prevents the totem from being shot down at the start of a match. But yes the perk needs a very large re-haul
I'd say more like a 4 hit requirement or make the hinder actually worth while like 8% or increase the duration since it takes a basic attack to activate it. Or just nerf vigil to not affect hindered.
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While it does suck that perks aren't being changed overall. I don't want to delude myself into thinking Cross Examination was going to be healthy for the game in any way. This perk on any indoor map just is a "don't chase me" while any form of higher wall loops become a literal guessing game of "did the survivor leave to go hide behind this rock" if you didn't have LOS on them for three seconds.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096142#Comment_4096142
Lol, okay then I just come at you from the angel you want to go and cut you off. Shocker but it's really not that difficult to beat.
I do it while healthy so I just still W key across the map?
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096134#Comment_4096134
If you are playing that poorly then I don't even need to get you to the basement lol. Just never going to half the map? Good luck being dead instantly as you path exclusively to places with no pallets.
You know against trapper pre running exists right. Literally just tap a gen keep him in one area of the map the entire time and if that area has no good gen control trapper just loses. I suppose you don't play against good players so trapper just works for you.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095876#Comment_4095876
You… do know that iron grasp and agitation exist right? I'm not trying to be insulting but this is literally day one information. AGITATION IS A TRAPPER PERK! Seriously you can't possibly be this new right?
Yeah, what's agi iron grasp gonna do when… I run across the map out of agi and iron grasp range. MAYBE if its wreckers yard but maps are simply too big for the carry build. Like if you can carry someone to shack basement from opposite side temple of purgation someone must have fed you a second down. It's literally common sense to no go down near basement with a trap killer and even then trapper can just confirm basement and thats about it. He has ONE thing going for him.
Been playing since 2019 and I can tell what hooks I can and can't make just based off the auras alone. I can guarantee you wont make basement unless someone goes down near it with 30 meters with agi. Maybe 40 with both agi and iron grasp. -
@esarraf said:
Actually yeah, there are problematic aspects around trapper. I love playing him but I'm not going to pretend it's hard to win games as him if you play basement trapper. He's extremely easy to win as if you know what you are doing.
Basement trapper when I: dont go down near basement.
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@Jylppy said:
No they aren't. People will anyways give up and do nothing if the game doesn't go their way and they don't wanna play so what is the difference? There is no difference. DC penalites will never encourage people to try and if you think so, you are just delusional
They absolutely are. Without them it only encourages the mindset more of "I don't like this so I'ma just quit" which is NOT what they game should push. You're playing a PVP game where your input is required for the success of your team as well where you can't rejoin mid match. If this was PVE it would be very reasonable to have no penalties but for a PVP it's absolutely necessary.
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Short answer yes. Long(er) answer being like Mandy said, every time the DC penalties were turned off the DC's would vastly increase leading to the game being in a horrible state. Literally any little thing people didn't like they would DC to. This community has proven time and time again they can not handle penalties being off. Like sure SOME don't abuse it but unfortunately it's a "they ruined this for everyone" type situation.
Last time I remember DC penalties confirmed being off was post Nemesis release when his tentacle would crash console users and I legit had more matches with DC's than without. -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094918#Comment_4094918
I really hate when people try to push this, because there is a lot of perks that make killer stronger on hook too, if that's not enough then slugging is too powerful period IMO, not the other way around, as someone who runs Furitive Chase/Friends til the end/turnback the clock atm, I feel giving benefits to hooking a survivor would go a long way.
We need 2v8 anti slug tested in 1v4, that inflicts a CD or exhausted to stop and I will make sure I state this EXTREME cases of slugging.
I do not like that it keeps going under the radar time and time again, because it really affects the enjoyment of the more casual playerbase and it scares so many players away… I know firsthand trying to introduce new friends and having to explain it's just how things are.
The anti-tunnel/slug was far from what we needed but the fresh hook incentives/hiding the unhooked survs status and then just take 2v8's anti slug to test instead would have been more than fine. The proposed one we got was so bad and overtuned.While yes there are perks that make the killer stronger from hooking. How many can actually get meaningful value from them against efficient survivors? The top 20% of the roster? Like cool I can get pop, turn back the clock etc, but on your average killer its legit more pressure to run anti-slug builds and or just surge/eruption. The logic is 100% there for slugging and is very counterable against the majority of killers. The best option in the end is to making hooking worth it whether it be nerfing unhook/hook perks on the survivors end (kill Shoulder the Burden) or giving back the incentives after getting unique hooks rather than straight up nerfing slugging when there's multiple anti-slug options.
Also, the fact the meta right now consists of mostly unhook perks so playing around the meta is honestly perfectly healthy for the game when the meta is inherently unhealthy. -
@Jonkler340 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094560#Comment_4094560
The only 2 reasons i can think of are the adept survivor achievements and the satisfaction of tbagging and escaping in front of the killer's face.
Yeah thats how it usually goes. They get their 1/5 solo q escape so they gotta take it out on the random demo gorgon player in pallet density.
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Should have been a thing since they added abandon once all 4 survivors are down. Till this day I don't know why people are so against the idea of the killer being able to abandon once gates are powered. I've seen "well the game isn't technically over" when I've seen people abandon even though there was plot twist and unbreakable but the last person downed is who had it or people still have self unhook attempts.
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My issue with "enjoy the wacky little fun things" is… killer doesn't really get anything fun. You get a clown bottle ability that forces them to walk if they keep running and poison morsels/objectives. Not to mention you lose the ability entirely to poison anything when one gen is left in exchange to get some tiny buffs for yourself from the morsels. I mean I guess its fun if you run Legion or Knight with the clown bottles but other than that nothing really on the killers side of note.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094078#Comment_4094078
Oh no, an extra minute. Sorry let me grab the worlds smallest violin.
I mean its more like 3-4 minutes.
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@esarraf said:
Oh no, anyway just go play the regular game mode where it's horribly unbalanced in your favor.
Except it also affects main mode queues mainly for killer so its either be bored playing mostly survivor or be in queue simulator.
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It just feels kinda bad. The cake amount feels scripted. I saw someone do around 5 prestiges, 1 with manual and 4 with auto spend. And every single time it was 27 cakes.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093451#Comment_4093451
Yeah, I just noticed that with unbreakable pallets, you can literally trap the killer forever in the basement and therefore hold the game hostage if you want LMAO
10 years of dev experience btw
Fortunately its a timer of 60 seconds but still. You could just run to one of the god pallets on one of the doors that open if a gen near it is completed, run to the corner against an m1, get injured or have some form of endurance and drop the pallet leaving them in that area for a while.
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Yup. Either instant event queues or 5 minutes regular mode queues. On top of cakes being rarer for now… its just insane. Still waiting for people to abuse the unbreakable pallets on gideons to trap a killer behind one of the god pallets for 30+ seconds.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093361#Comment_4093361
The invincibility is also really good at body blocking hooks, had a team prevent me from hooking someone entirely by doin that.
Yeah don't think I would be playing ANY weaker during this event. If the cakes were still common tier MAYBE but this event just seems miserable to play as any non-ranged killer or killer that can just ignore some of the event aspects.
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I heard theres a buff that makes pallets unbreakable for 60 seconds. I could only imagine the damage that could do when shack can be up.
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yeah idk why they decided to randomly change the cake rarity. Especially for arguably the most important anniversary this game is going have in its history. Don't know what was wrong with them being common rarity.
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Oh wait yeah just registered they are Very Rare now meaning even less cakes. Why are we being so stingy with them? I remember back when there could be up to 3 cakes with at least 1 per blood web now it's going maybe 3 blood webs at lvl 40+ just to see one.
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I always thought bulk spending was universally known to not be good.
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Well as you can guess from the pfp. My old main was blight. Picked him up shortly after his release and seeing a streamer called AscensionWho (miss that guy) show off the bug known as "J-Flick" which was a 1 frame flick that allowed you to basically look anywhere during the lunge but would lock your camera after said flick. So I basically just played for those flicks constantly cause I found it fun. Nowadays don't really play blight because it's kinda boring being rail roaded into either playing with adrenaline vial/blighted tag if I want farther flicks which both just make bump logic harder to pull off or in tags case more hail mary swings.
Nowadays more of a Trickster/Twins player if I can stand the bugs. -
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092621#Comment_4092621
Look at Zakon's picture though. Thats a completely different configuration of the tile and the "broken pallet" in the middle of nothing…kiiiiiinda stupid aint it?
While it is a different configuration it still is a potential pallet spawn with the addition of props beside it.
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That actually is a pallet spawn all though a bit rarer. That has a chance to be a god pallet.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092154#Comment_4092154
No, it's isn't a soloq issue. Soloq is a big part of the game. If something is uncounterable in solo on one killer it shouldn't exist. I normally play all three aspects of this game but I currently won't touch soloq, and I'm sure I'm not alone. That's not healthy for the game's queue times or its outloook.
We should not balance around ignorance.
I'm assuming which ever CC that said this meant the ignorance of a player in regards to how things work, not the inability to even share or have information. Information that is imossible to obtain is not the same as ignorance.
Hilarious thing to say though, when talking about a no-thoughts killer who can turn invisible and zoom around the map while regressing gens with an add-on and getting free info on everybody. You can be macro-ignorant as all hell but still win.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092163#Comment_4092163
Telling people they should have to spend money to even have a chance to win the game is just gross.
I don't need or want easy escapes. My 30-day is always well above 40% and has been for some time (and still is). Nor would I ever want any killer I play to be this easy to win with. I'd be livid if my killers got buffed to this degree. Some of us do want to earn things. Strange, but true.
Cause thats eventually what you're going to get if you keep pushing these nerfs onto him.
Nobody is asking for a rework, nor did anyone ask for that one.
It quite literally is a solo q issue. How do you expect people to play accordingly without proper communication? Please tell me how the biggest problem here isn't the lack of communication. Also, it was Otz that said that quote and he was referring broadly iirc showing examples of survivor who didn't even understand what certain perks did. Either way the "should not be balanced around ignorance" is a very broad statement that applies quite frankly to everything.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092154#Comment_4092154
The game is balanced around solo queue so I personally consider it unhealthy to have perks/powers that specifically punish you for it.
Is there any official statements of them saying this or is it just blabber?
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I mean this perk was destined to be unhealthy for the game. Either elusive mid chase (extremely powerful) or not useful as much or outclassed. Wish the devs would stop trying to make elusive work as every time it's added to a perk its either not useful enough or just promoted unhealthy gameplay.