Bardon
Bardon
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The first time he got to use it Aryun himself stated that it was an insane buff. We agree, it's bloody insane all right.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/306758/im-going-to-give-bhvr-props
Right now I'm more concerned about RPD and Boil Over, as I'm already seeing people running this and immediately heading to the Library to be literally unhookable.
That will be followed by an increase in slugging on those matches, for which there will be survivors complaining about the gameplay caused by their own actions. The circle of life continues! :)
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@indieeden7 said:
Only the dbd community would accuse a sound bug of being a nerf
Given how critical sound is for the killer, yeah it is! The same issue occurs with the Plague's power-up - that "whispering" is so loud it covers up a lot of essential sound information.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2771186#Comment_2771186
What data have the devs shown? Other than the one chart which they explicitly say every time they show it "we don't use this for balancing so take it with a grain of salt", what numbers are you referring to that they're releasing which they base decision on?
That was my point - they keep talking about "the data shows" but never actually give any evidence.
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Expect a big increase in slugging now that the buffed Boil Over is live + the free buff in wiggle time. There are quite a few places where it would be literally impossible to take a downed survivor to a hook so why bother?
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That one second quicker == 6.25%. A 6.25% free buff to all survivors that can easily be macro'd because the skill checks are always in the same place & timing - that's what the game needed!
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@dugman said:
- Boil Over is probably mostly ok, if it ends up being broken in very specific locations in maps it's probably just a flag that that specific map needs an adjustment anyway regardless of Boil Over.
- Dead Man's Switch could possibly be an issue on Artist due to her unlimited range and ability to fire crows through obstacles. If it does present a problem, though, the solution is probably to tweak Artist's crows so they don't do damage beyond 35 meters, for example. She'd still be a solid killer even if she can't literally get an occasional snipe halfway across the map or more
- Gearhead showing survivor auras versus generator auras makes it inherently better in my opinion. You say the survivor aura is harder to see but when I use survivor aura perks I don't normally have trouble seeing them (except when there's one of those annoying halos created by a sacrifice or generator completion which block everything else).
- Furtive Chase is definitely still useless. Having less terror radius in a chase makes pretty much zero difference because the survivor you're chasing knows you're there. So who cares if the effect lasts longer in the match? A worthless effect that lasts a long time is still a worthless effect. They really need to consider revamping both this and Beast of Prey to have effects that don't give "stealth" during a chase. Stealth is primarily useful when you're NOT in a chase.
- To be fair to the devs they have the data on these add-ons that the people posting in these forums don't. They're saying they looked at lots of matches with and without specific add-ons and the ones they nerfed are the ones where the add-ons appeared to be having too great an impact on the kill/escape rates. It's not like they just randomly said "oh, this is popular, let's nerf it".
But given what the Devs have shown as the data they're basing decisions on, they need to take a Statistics 101 course.
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Ahh, "shortly". In BHVR-speak, that generally means a few months at best.
I'm hoping for better but not holding my breath.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2770854#Comment_2770854
CoH was already nerfed, DH changes are apparently in the works, Iron Will is fine as is. Boohoo.
Adding 2 seconds to heal time (without medkits or other perks) is hardly a nerf to COH, it's a joke.
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@Gwinty said:
Nothing at first. I would like to see these things addressed as separate problems and not to be mixed.
SoloQ survivors are always a bit weak and feel bad. That should not be the case and if they can remove that feeling maybe my soloQ mates play better and I can coordinate better with them. I usually play with a friend and while we two can do some fancy stuff we often have issues with soloQ players having problems.
Kindred, Better Together and other stuff helps but it is not the same.
If Killers fall off an have problems that should be addressed later. I guess that some Killers will show little to no problems: Blight, Nurse and Spirit are already pretty good. Pyramide Head and Artist are also fine and do not need changes. It would be mostly trapping Killers (Hag and Trapper) and stealthy Killers (Pig, Ghostface and Myers) who should get buffed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766975#Comment_2766975
And honestly I like those. I think Ruin should get tuned down a bit and base regression should go up. Same for kicks to the generator who should get their value back. Right now unless you have Pop, Dragons Grip or something like this the kick does nothing. I would even be fine with a slight nerf to Pop for this to account for the change.
So you think it'd be a good idea to buff survivors across the board but leave killers as is.
Given BHVR's usual timeframe, that means killers will get their compensatory changes in about 3 years.
No thanks.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
The game is blatantly survivor sided; HOWEVER, Otz and company proved that realistically that doesn't matter when survivors on average are as bad as they are. They are overly altruistic, get triggered as easily as they think click and bags bother killers, and sometimes decide not to run the perks that make the above statement an objective truth.
That is why the conversation is so gray and people water it down to whoever is playing the most "sweaty" wins as that is usually the outcome in most instances realistically speaking. In a practical setting, it is anyone's game. If both sides come to bang, survivors are going to win. But they rarely ever do which is why I can understand some solo players feeling the exact opposite as... Let's be real, more killers are playing seriously and to win as that style is more accessible. A lot of the "tough" competition are just swf trying to have fun as opposed to a swf wanting to reach top mmr.
But that's just a theory.
What Otz really proved is that with thousands of hours in the game that level of skill trumps every other consideration.
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@FixtionuL said:
Their words are bringing soloq up to swf level and then adjust killer accordingly. Swf is the most broken thing in the game so it will negatively impact killer and merit killer buffs. They also said they don't want to touch gen speeds and are looking at slowdown meta.
My guess is they will look at killer map presence and control to make that more appealing than running 4 slowdown perks every match.
I do think that get regression vs progression should get looked at. Maybe add a 3 second gen start up from the damage state,maybe with a skill check to reduce the timer by 1 second, before progression starts again so survivors can't just keep gen tapping to stop regression.
My concern is the order they've listed the changes - buff solo queue and then adjust killer. So once more we're looking at a "Moris & Keys" situation where the killer got nerfed for a long time before the survivor had the related change.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767392#Comment_2767392
I don't like to make sweeping generalizations. They're almost never true.
I get that you were trying to be amusing, but from the past few posts I've seen yes you do.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761192#Comment_2761192
I totally understand where you're coming from here. As someone who watches every stream, you probably don't want to hear the same questions and answers again. But there's a lot of people who don't catch every single one, or who may tune it half way through a stream and miss the answer the first time. We try to keep the duplicate questions to a minimum, but when they're highly voted and frequently asked, we'll toss 'em back in there to spread the word a little more.
To put it simply, for every super hardcore player who catches all the news & Q&As, there's two or three more who play the game casually and check in on the news only every once in a while, if at all.
Here's an idea - why not have an FAQ page with the questions asked & the answers from the Dev Q&A sessions so that new people could come up to speed?
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@Laluzi said:
This is necessary. You can't get rid of comms or SWF, and the game will never be balanced when half of survivors are blind and half of them know everything their teammates are doing.
This had to give. If we improve survivor efficiency across the board, we can improve killers to keep up with that higher efficiency instead of this current situation where you'll stomp or be stomped depending on if the same 4 survivors are solo or on comms. If we leave things as they are, killers will always be balanced for solo and all but a few will get wrecked by SWF.
Do you honestly think they'll buff killers across the board to match this? Not a hope in hell.
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@bm33 said:
They seem to rely alot on stats saying something is fine while ignoring the player base going "this isn't fun, it's encouraging unfun gameplay."
It'd be like a chef giving you something that has all the nutrition you need but ignoring people when they say "this doesn't taste good, it needs more flavor."
Sadly, the stats they're showing demonstrates that they have no idea how statistics actually work nor how they should be used.
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It's similar to how they've "nerfed" COH (not really, a whole 2 seconds longer to fully heal is a joke) because they've ignored the actual issues which are the massive area on multi-level maps in particular, the infinite nature of boons and the madly overpowered ability to grant multiple perks to all the other survivors.
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Given that it took them 3 years to even look at fixing Nurse I wouldn't hold your breath.
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@GreenDemo said:
It really is hard to nerf that perk huh ? To be honest keep the 100 %. Hell, make it 125%.
But allow survivors to just place it once or twice. But no, that would upset every survivor. I mean cmon decisive strike can only be used once, same with unbreakable.
I mean if the idea of boon totems is that they are a stronger version of some perks (Boon:Exponential = infinite Unbreakable, Boon:Circle of Healing instead of medkits and Boon: Shadowstep instead of Distortion.) but on limited radius and for the price of wasting a bit of time blessing a totem..... then I guess tweaking with numbers is the only move to balance them rn.
Maybe they will be able to recode the Boon: CoH how it was supposed to work (as ppl heard/theorised). Just a selfcare without the penalty. No extra healing speed when using a medkit or getting healed by another survivor.
BTW Shadowstep is Distortion + Lucky Break so even more potent, especially if combined with COH so things like Nurses Calling etc are useless.
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@Tr1nity said:
Nothing pleases you guys, does it.
Given that this changes the heal times by up to nearly 2 seconds, this "nerf" is practically nothing so yeah?
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I'm not good with her but I do love our Vommy Mommy - I just wish they'd tone down the "whispers" when she has her full power. To quote Moses in The History of the World Part I:
"Hear you? A deaf man could hear you!"
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@Lawlichan said:
the CoH nerf literally won't change anything
I believe several people have done the math and it adds a whole 2 seconds to a full heal. Given how ridiculously fast a normal COH heal is (not counting perks, medkits etc) it's not even a functional nerf!
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@selflessnea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758803#Comment_2758803
Idk. It sounds like tinto put a lot of time into nurse. I'm not a codrecodguy but I imagine recoding an entire kiler would take some time.
It's taken approximately 3 years for them to fix those bugs (if indeed they're all fixed - we won't really be able to tell until it's live).
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I do admit I'd love to see T3 Nemmy do a bit more than just "+1m range", given the speed burst from the first hit.
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I'm a relative newbie (just over 100 hours) and to be honest I think I've played 2 killer games since mid-Dec. It's just not fun, MMR still puts me up against people with obviously far more skill and experience than myself and getting bullied isn't what I'd call an enjoyable use of my time.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2757069#Comment_2757069
True but if something happens that you dont understand you dont jump the gun and scream witch! I've seen some stuff I couldnt explain and when I posted a question on the forums people explained it to me and it made sense.
I may not do that, and you may not do that, and a vast majority of people may do that, but I've been accused of hacking more times than I can count on my hands because of Mad Grit alone.
My comment was more directed towards the title than what actually happened- it's entirely possible she'd never seen a Demo and so couldn't have forgotten about it. The accusation of hacking is just the cherry on top of proving she doesn't understand his power.
Mad Grit is especially fun with good old DemoDog, the rapid screaming is a hoot! :)
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@Mr_K said:
If 1 second is insignificant then why add it?
Anyone who says 1 second won't help never screamed, the bar is at 99.999% [wiggle], as the killer hooked them. All those post from a few years ago about "hook vacuum" were clearly from survivors at 50% wiggle. 🙄
Sure some maps have close hooks but some map you can barely reach a hook before a survivor wiggles free. RPD, Haddonfun, and some instances of Midwitch for example.
Bottom line denying killers hooks will incentivise slugging and bleedout. Survivors wiggling out should only occur if other survivors get involve by block/perks or the killer gets greedy with their hooks.
BHVR can make wiggling have skill checks without decreasing the time killer have to hook. They didn't extend hook struggle time with great skillchecks, why do it here?
1 second is roughly 6.25% of the full wiggle time. Many buffs have provided less than a 6% change in <whatever was being buffed>.
So it's "just a second" but not insignificant.
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It certainly raises the question of "What is BHVR's Quality Assurance Team doing?"
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Sluzzy, is that you?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756086#Comment_2756086
Pretty aggressive tone there, bud.
You're right, though- the aura reading is actually the stronger part, and might be something worth looking at once general boon mechanics and CoH specifically are reigned in. Of course, it may be that after looking into it, the result is "nah, nothing needs doing", because it's not as though Shadow Step is an OP nightmare of a perk right now before any of that is done.
It's an annoyance on cramped indoor maps, but even then it's not OP, just annoying.
My tone isn't as aggressive as yours in the quoted post...
"Yeah, this is where you're wrong, which I somewhat expected based on your previous message."
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755636#Comment_2755636
Yeah, this is where you're wrong, which I somewhat expected based on your previous message.
If you list out the effects of Exponential on paper, yes, it looks very strong! However, the times where you can actually use it require so many things to fall into place that outside of very niche circumstances it's just not worth running. The killer has to slug you, in range of a boon totem, that someone's already put up, that doesn't get snuffed partway through... Those are all pretty big "ifs" to put on this perk, it's just not good. Period.
Then we get to Shadow Step, and even when listing out the effects on paper it's clear that it's a fair and balanced perk. Losing scratch marks makes chases harder, yes, but it's a fair difficulty increase that can absolutely be played around. Know how I know this? Two things; losing scratch marks is baked into some killer kits as the fair difficulty increase for a chase, and there are other survivor perks that remove scratch marks that most people regard as quite weak. On top of that, unlike CoH - the real problem - survivors have to be in its range during a chase, so you're far more likely to know where it is to snuff it after they're downed.
Where does that leave us? It leaves us with a fair and balanced perk (though the mechanic it rests on could use tweaks - I've never liked that boon auras go through floors, for example, and the killer should be able to hear it from further away) and kind of a useless perk, both of which would be destroyed by making totems one-time use for blessing.
We're going to glide past the weird "devs are survivor-sided" stuff since that's fully irrelevant, and conclude with this:
You don't take a sledgehammer to a potentially fun and fair mechanic just because it has minor problems and one problem perk. The solution is to put a few more limitations on boons, as I described above, and to redirect that sledgehammer to Circle of Healing, where it belongs.
So you're just ignoring the most powerful part of Shadow Step in your analysis? It completely blocks aura reading! The sheer number of perks/addons that nullifies is insane, especially given that Shadow Step effectively gives all 4 survivors both Lucky Break and unlimited Distortion in the boon area, which has already been pointed out is stunningly large especially if you get a map like Midwich or RPD.
If you're going to list the effects on paper for the purposes of discussion, how about listing all of them?
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@Ryuhi said:
Boons create free map pressure for survivors, especially CoH. If a boon is placed nowhere near any active gens, they have created a zone of map that is both fortified in their favor, AND has zero objective for you to pressure. They basically create the killer side equivalent of what a dead zone is to survivor. If the killer continues chasing them there or finds and puts out the boon, they have wasted map pressure that most of them desperately need.
Technically you don't even need boons in place to create this scenario: If someone is on hook and other survivors are injured, you could get into a chase on purpose and lead the killer away from the hook long enough for both the save and healing. Boons let survivors create that lose/lose scenario for zero risk though, either they go to the boon and lose pressure on objectives, or they ignore the boon and lose injury pressure while everyone self cares for free without even needing the perk.
Its crazy how much people underestimate map pressure, especially on the survivor side. Understanding it and being able to erode a killer's pressure feels like the strongest way to climb right now, and tools like CoH make it easier than ever.
In particular this applies to the "territorial" killers like Trapper & Hag who set up a protected zone but then have to trudge halfway across the map to snuff a boon then trudge back...
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The sad thing is, there's an easy, smart way to resolve this entirely but BHVR doesn't seem to consider their own changes!
Instead of the Skill-check changes to Wiggle and the 6% buff for Survivors if they hit all Great skillchecks, why not this?
Have Wiggle be one of the actions that can use the brand-new optional Toggle mode.
Survivors with accessibility issues? Select Toggle mode and you can wiggle as well as anyone else without hassle - Win!
Survivors who like the oldschool wiggle? Leave the optional setting as "Classic" - Win!
Killers who won't see any difference whatsoever and don't face an unnecessary nerf? - Win!
BHVR gets to demonstrate that they can accommodate those with accessibility issues without changing game balance - Win!
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@Minecraft said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2753885#Comment_2753885
the issue is not with the perk, it's with the people whining. hit validation is fine and it will eventually be added to everything
Hit validation is causing DH to eat Killer's powers when it shouldn't - Twins and Nemesis in particular are hard hit by the latest change. This is not by any definition "fine" until the problem is fixed.
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@GuyFawx said:
To be fair the only 2 killers you notice THE NOTHING on is blight and nurse as it really ruins their power in that chase. Nurse isnt as bad but it still happens from time to time and is really annoying when you just stop mid blink its almost like the game has some issue with pathing over certain type of props since that update.
I have to add Billy here - the number of times I've hit something while chainsaw dashing and have no idea what the hell I hit is annoying.
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@gilgamer said:
When sluzzy is making good points you know you've messed up
Please let me know when they start!
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@Hunta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/305028/is-dead-hard-ever-going-to-be-looked-at
Imo the only thing that should be looked at is when you hit the survivor and their character screams as if they got hit but they escape because of deadhard. So stupid and doesn't make sense.
In addition, the latest change that made DH absorb a killer's power, such as when Nemmy uses a tentacle over a dropped pallet & the survivor DH's away. Fair and correct that the tentacle doesn't hit the survivor, but it also doesn't break the pallet which is what it should do if it doesn't hit a survivor. Fix that ASAP. It's even worse for Twins and they've already been nerfed into the ground far too much.
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@QwQw said:
Hey, Sluzzy, what is your favorite killer and survivor?
Amazingly enough, Sluzzy is a Nurse main with a few thousand hours in!
Boggles the mind...
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Well played!
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I have no issue with an accessibility improvement on the Wiggle function, but who asked for "And also make it so that survivors can escape quicker if they hit great skill checks"? And no, Sluzzy doesn't count and I'm aware that it's a 1 second improvement which is a 6% improvement. Many addons do far less than 6%!
To be honest, I believe a far better solution for all involved would be to make Wiggle one of the actions that can use the new Toggle functionality.
Old-school survivors who like to buttonmash? Happy.
Survivors with accessibility issues/hate buttonmashing? Happy
Survivors who choose not to wiggle IE killer taking them to hook? Happy.
Killers who experience no change whatsoever? Happy.
It's a win-win and a chance to highlight their new Toggle accessibility feature, so I'll admit I'm surprised that nobody in BHVR thought of this.
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All it really shows is if you play the game 8 hours/day for years you can pretty much win regardless.
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@Tiufal said:
First, DH isnt that much used at all. Second, Pinky Finger is one of the most broken addon out there for years. Third, who cares for worst design killer ever?
"DH isn't that much used at all".
Best laugh I've had all day!
Seriously, you can't honestly believe that.
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@fogdonkey said:
It is not nerfed, because it doesn't need a nerf. I am a 75:25 killer:survivor player.
Well who could argue with that logic? :)
Seriously though, you don't see any issues with CoH completely removing the hit & run playstyle and effectively forcing the killer to tunnel, a playstyle many hate?
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@hannibal322 said:
Boons are just too strong in general I don't understand how team wide perks made it past the pitching an idea stage if they were meant to be this strong. Then they went and made them infinite reuses.
I agree CoH is the main offender completely bonkers over powered. Set it near a completed gen across the map the team has permanent healing or the killer loses the game getting that boon snuffed.
Shadow step I think removing scratch marks would have been enough removing auras too counters some of the most fun killer builds in the game. Looking at scratched mirrors build.
Exponential I have no complaints about but I have never seen it run after the first week it came out.
Yeah, Shadow Step is also too powerful, especially for less-experienced killers or those with hearing impairment. Blocking all auras + removing scratch marks (and both effects lasting a few seconds after you leave the zone) is effectively giving 2 free perks to the other three survivors, which is blatantly unbalanced especially as they're infinitely renewing. It's effectively Distortion + Lucky Break for every survivor.
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What's of concern is the repeated statements that the clear intent is to buff Solo Q survivors but never any mention of addressing killers - given how long it takes to get anything positive done on the killer side (well done on the Nurse fixes after only 3 years!) if Killers aren't buffed at the same time as Solo Q then the current bad situation will only get worse.
And by "buff" I don't mean "add 1% to addons that are not used because they're garbage".
Just my 2c worth.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734548#Comment_2734548
Reference to how last Mid-Chapter brought back three blink Nurse
Oh I agree wholeheartedly, last patch Nurse got a definite buff with the 3-blink addon, frankly I don't think that should even exist.
However, in this patch (which is the topic of this thread) Nurse got bug fixes not buffs.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734384#Comment_2734384
Alrighty, let's crack into that!
Obviously they're not going to specify what their changes are, if they were any more specific than they were it'd be shockingly incompetent. Moving on...
First, the current crop of QoL stuff is for survivors, yes, but they're still players of the game and there's nothing wrong with giving them some QoL stuff. This isn't an us vs them, that isn't how balance or game design works. Killers get QoL too from time to time, same as survivors.
Second, more killer addons were buffed than nerfed.
Third and fourth are both completely impossible to disprove OR prove, they're just conjecture based on already assuming the worst. Additionally, it only matters a little bit how well those changes work, since we're talking about whether or not this patch is more of the same. It's not.
Fifth, they addressed file storage for the whole game on all platforms, it's just first utilised in this PTB.
It's not that I'm optimistic, it's that this patch is a pretty good one overall. They're taking things seriously and putting in some serious elbow grease to improve the game in a few different areas, and that's just objectively true. How much that effort pays off is a different discussion, of course, but for the topic at hand it's just flat out untrue that this patch is another example of a bad patch that ignores issues. It just isn't fixing the specific issues you want addressed, and while I empathise with that, a broader perspective would be helpful here.
I'd like to address this point: "Second, more killer addons were buffed than nerfed."
The number of addons altered isn't nearly as important as the quality of addons changed and their usefulness.
Poor Nemmy, Twins and Clown in particular had some of their only good addons nerfed and the addon buffs they got were both miniscule and to addons that were garbage already. Making a few addons slightly less garbage means that they will still never get used but the ones that were actually useful are now worse. Twins in particular have been slammed heartlessly again and again - I'm glad I never bought that DLC and I feel for those who did.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
I thought this also then I remember these devs buff Nurse and Blight. Then nerf Twins and Nemesis. Because StAtIsTiCs
Nurse didn't get a buff, she got a bunch of very impactful bugs that have been in place for 3+ years finally fixed. This is not a buff.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734260#Comment_2734260
Hit and run was never viable against a good team. CoH didn't change that. I think CoH is really hurting killers who aren't snuffing the totems. Obviously totems aren't always obvious, but it is always an efficiency gain as a killer to snuff a totem a survivor spent time lighting. I can only speak for myself, but boons haven't been a huge factor in my killer games unless they're in an extremely obtuse spot that also happens to be central in the map.
Pity the poor territorial killer like Trapper & Hag. By your standards, they'd have to trudge all the way across the map away from their defended area to snuff the boon then trudge back, only to have the boon re-lit 0.00001 nanoseconds (exaggeration...) after they start heading back to their area. What are they expected to do except tunnel and camp like crazy?
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731687#Comment_2731687
If you bring a medkit, the base time to heal is 16 seconds. Doing a boon and CoH is 14 seconds, followed by the 16 seconds needed to heal. If you combine a medkit, with doing a boon, it is 22 seconds, still slower than just a medkit. If you boon a hex then self heal, it is 44 seconds. combine with a medkit, it is 36 seconds. Sure, next time you are injured, you will get a faster heal because you don't have to boon, but that is taking into account that the killer will never snuff the boon
But that time penalty only applies to the one putting the Boon into place. The other three survivors don't face that initial time penalty nor do they pay a perk penalty for essentially getting free perks.