Grateful bhvr is looking at dead hard
Thank God they stated in the q&a that dead hard gives too much utility.
Now we know that it'll get looked at. I don't know about other killer players, but i vastly prefer teams of lithe and sprint burst.
At least with those they get used almost immediately instead robbing you when they made a mistake in chase. Dead hard is deflating and irritating to go against and I'm glad they're giving incentive to use other exhaustion perks.
Comments
I'm just hoping they'll nerf the distance, not the invincibility frames
It is nice to hear that they understand the issue, and nice to hear a little insight into how tricky it'll be to address it.
Hopefully it doesn't take too long, but it sounds relatively involved so who knows.
Given the non-nerf they just gave Circle of OP; do you really think they'll do anything at all impactful to DH?
They're going to buff it
Never understood the people that want the I frames removed
The most frustrating part about DH is doing it for distance, remove the I frames and thats pretty much its only use
I really don’t think so, but we’ll have to wait and see what they come up with.
Same, that's the perfect nerf in my opinion. Though, i have no idea what i would give it in return, if it deserves a buff in return.
Dead Hard for distance was also the OP part of the Perk. The invincibility frames are actually pretty meh, I wouldn't mind them getting a buff if the distance was reworked to require dodging a hit. I've seen the concept of Dead Hard giving the Survivor a 2 second Sprint Burst if they successfully dodge a hit using the i-frame, I quite like it
I'll celebrate when I actually see something. They also said that they were looking into adding an early game collapse like what... 2 years ago? And it's still not in the game.
Though in their defense, I remember they said they scraped it because it seemed like too much when people stacked slowdown perks on top of it ( something that would absolutely happen if made live).
That's a great idea actually, I've never heard that one. So you're saying dead hard gives no distance, only i frames, and if the survivor dodges a hit, they get small sprint burst?
That's a really cool idea.
I'd argue for 1 second, maybe 1.5 seconds, but only becuase the Killer also does the 'wiping weapon' animation. Need to add that slowdown into the equation.
It would be a miss attack cooldown, as it wasn't a hit, it was a miss
I'm sure the "bhvr never nerfs survivors" rant is more hyperbolic than some people in this community make it out to be.
This is one of the first times we've heard the devs outright agree that dead hard is op, no?
I have faith they'll be looking at it. I can be patient at least knowing they're aware of how busted it is, rather than them being silent about it.
Well people will hate this concept too. But this will need more skill for sure. At least you can bait survivor for use Dead Hard, so if you don't hit survivor will not get value. This is better idea than current Dead Hard.
Oh. In that case; 2 seconds dash, yeah.
I always imagined it was a 'hit' for Killers but not a hit...But that would cause Killers to think it was a 'phantom hit', which would suck. My bad.
I found the original post https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/306157/dead-hard-is-being-looked-at-what-buff-do-you-expect#latest
@anarchy753 came up with it
Dead Hard no longer gives distance.
If Dead Hard dodges an attack successfully, break into a sprint for 2 seconds.
I feel like that concept would nerf Dead Hard to the level of Lithe, Smash Hit, Head On and Balanced Landing, the most balanced Exhaustion Perks in the game imo
Yeah more balanced and more fair. And it will need skill to use it. But question, is this gonna happen? I have not hope for this.
I'm not expecting it to happen either
My pessimism is more so with things being said but not delivered on and sometimes it's not even the devs fault. Sometimes the devs spit out an idea with it only supposed to be an idea and the community excitedly take it as an absolute thing.
DH (imo) kills m1 killers, though it is a bit more complicated because how maps are laid out also factor into how strong it can be. I hope it gets changed too, but I won't be upset if they end up not doing anything to it
BHVR has specifically acknowledged the design issue is distance being unintended/too much benefit, not the i-frames (beyond just making validation less confusing/weird interactions with specific powers).
Peanits: "What aspect of Dead Hard are we really thinking about changing? Are we thinking about changing the way people use it for distance, or are we thinking more about the way people use it to dodge a hit?"
Patrick: Yeah I mean on the technical side, we're definitely looking at the hit dodging, how that functions, how the players experience it, how you get feedback, how you know that that hit got dodged, stuff like that. There's already some changes coming I believe in the upcoming patch touching on the validation of it, it was in the PTB. From a game design side, we're definitely looking at it specifically in regards to the speed boost and how that can activate regardless of you dodging a hit. It gives it a little bit too much utility beyond what we want Dead Hard to do, so that's another aspect. I don't have anything specific to say about what we're doing there but those are the high-level aspects we're investigating right now.
Yes, it's exactly what killers want. Not to nerf into the ground
Why should DH require Skill to use? Out of all Perks, why this one? No Perk requires Skill to use, Perks are basically "slap them on, use them".
Exhaustion perks are like killer powers. They require skill to get the best use out of them. Dead hard isn't necessarily skill-less, but the way it's currently used just to make free distance at the press of a button? That's skill-less.
Changes like this one bring it more in line with the other exhaustion perks
Don't except anything done about it for a few years. Remember, if it affects survivors, it's not a priority. Probably next year, or the year after.
You mean 'if it HELPS Survivors' it's not a priority. Anything that HURTS Survivors is fixed within a day.
Source: When Survivors would stop hearing Killer's TR music randomly, it was fixed within a day. When Survivors stop making noise when in the Dying state; it has not been fixed in over a year.
Good joke.
Let me guess; the next joke is that 'NoED has no counters'?
There is only one real change I'd like to see in it. I have no real problem with it negating the hit. My problem is negating the hit and giving so much distance. Are the distance and it is fine. That would also negating it's use vs Trapper's trap unless their timing is perfect.
No i think it will be this
Given the most recent survivor perk "nerfs" it honest might as well just be a hint to saying "yes we know it's survivor biased and it's unbalanced as hell but hey keep buying our ######### and we can use that to make more licensed characters which we will nerf and maybe look at more survivor perks down the line (but really don't)"
I'll be grateful when results are shown instead of promises which they have a pretty rocky history of keeping. Their words don't mean much to me annymore.
I think something wrong, if 3 from 4 surv have Dead hard, not it's no OP never...
3 of those 4 survivors also have selfcarfe, are you suggesting selfcare is OP?
Given that it took them 3 years to even look at fixing Nurse I wouldn't hold your breath.
i-frames are easily baitable and counterable. The distance is uncounterable to the majority of killers. That is why distance is the issue, and why BHVR has explicitly said they will be targeting that aspect, as it makes the perk too strong, and that usage for distance is not what they want the perk to be capable of.
Most killer perks require them to earn the effect. so why not survivor?
We already knew this though. We can't give credit for this. It's like giving credit for you giving someone a job to do and instead they just look at the papers instead of shredding them or whatever the task is. Because that's just exactly what it is. They just said they are looking at it. I'll be grateful once it's actually changed. And if the change is actually good.
I think the distance itself is fine, but I think the ability to use the distance outside of dodging range is not. It's fine gaining 2-ish meters of distance, because you'd absolutely need to if you want to consider it a dodged hit(it's not really a dodge if you miss an attack and instantly hit a survivor again, a dodge would mean dodging a hit and being able to reach the next loop potentially).
So, what I hope DH will be like, is basically what it is now, but has to be pre-activated, require 0.5 second to charge up, gets a 5-second window of being able to dodge a hit, if it dodges a hit succesfully, get exhausted, otherwise get a 2.5-second window where you need to recharge it before activating it again. You could even use this while healthy and remove the injured requirement as it doesnt really gain you distance whenever you want, it gives you distance based on when the killer decided to hit you.
That way, you still have the i-frames, and you still have the potential distance, but only if you actually dodged a hit.
It would also make the "auto-dead hard" function for hackers useless, since it requires a charge up. Let alone that it would even reward people from stealthing up to a survivor and catching them by surprise as they didnt have time to charge up a dodge, while it would punish people who stealth up horribly to a survivor.
The dash should either be removed entirely, or be moved to only on a successful dodge. Problem solved.
A 5 second window of dodging a hit? That will give you more free distance than the current DH for Distance does. Use your phone to actually time out 5 seconds, and imagine that while sprinting in game. Oof, that would be O to the P.
Yeah, but you can't insta use it either, and it loses you distance compared to the current DH, since there is a cooldown on it too. Not even mentioning that my numbers are exaggerated to examplify the ratio and are more tied to the concept than actual usable numbers.
Not even mentioning that you could base the distance on how much time is left too, so that if it's instantly used, you gain more distance than current DH, but if it's used after 2 seconds it's basically you standing still like the bugged console DH from last year.
I have to disagree. The i-frames aren't that big a deal, they're usually manageable and most of the time they're not that good
I wish everyone could agree that the free distance at will is the issue, not the i frames
Dead hard nerf coming 2024.... Maybe
No perk requires Skill to use? What?
My Devour Hope requires me to do tons of health states and hook those Survivors, all while running away from the hook to ensure minimum distance to gain my stacks, which do absolutely nothing before 3 stacks at all!
Your perk requires you to..... press E.
We are not the same.
In those instances, the i-frames from Dead Hard don't usually do anything, you'll get the down a couple seconds after, that's a true 'wait it out' moment. If you mindgame the Survivor, they Dead Hard and then get to a Pallet or Window, then that's a problem of Dead Hard distance, not i-frames
Have you heard of the gaming phrase "Low risk, High reward"? That means you take very little risk or use very little effort, to gain a huge advantage. That's pretty much DH.
Perks don't require skill? Passive perks (Botany Knowledge, Coulrophobia) don't require skill, I'll consider Oppression more skillful than Dead Hard!
Yeah ok that sounds really bad, but I still feel like the free, uncounterable distance is worse
Same
Definetely i frames can stay dead hard for distance cant