Bardon
Bardon
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2848720#Comment_2848720
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2848740#Comment_2848740
Let me group ya'll together so I don't need to make two separate long answers.
I don't use addons, use Dead Hard (I actually despise that perk actually. Such a selfish perk. I even ranted about it in one of my discussions. Go check it out, I recommend it 😎) or bully the killer.
But when I started playing DBD, I played it as a fun little horror hide & seek game. And the devs have also iterated that this was the idea behind the game's inception as well.
Now, I don't know when this game became a competitive game, but it's not and will never be. It doesn't share the common characterisitcs of a competitive game therefore it isn't one.
Camping is for those who take the game WAY too seriously and want to win in the cost of other's expenses. What happened to playing the game your best, own up to your mistakes and just typing GG WP at the end chat?
Woops sorry, it's 2022 we're talking about isn't it? My bad. lol
I'm sorry, but your post is simply a re-iteration of "This is how I want to play the game and therefore others should do the same".
You're certainly entitled to have that position but I'm afraid it's unrealistic to expect others to accept that.
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While they've said they're working on it, it would be lovely if they would at least fix the issue where Dead Hard is actively blocking killer's powers from acting as they should IE the classic Nemmy Pallet issue.
- Nemmy fires tentacle at survivor on the other side of a dropped pallet.
- Survivor hits "E" and dead hard's away. Nemmy's attack does not hit survivor (Working as intended)
- Nemmy's tentacle does not break the pallet. (Not working as intended)
- Survivor teabags their way to the exit gate.
The same applies to Victor's leap & a score of other powers. Fix that first.
Given that it took them three years to fix Nurse, I hold out little hope that DH will get fixed before 2025, sadly.
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2847782#Comment_2847782
Why is it always extreme cases with you people? Either play all you want or not play at all?
Your mindset is quite baffling not to mention unreasonable. You really think "winning" in this game is to get 4ks or finish 5 gens and exit? If so, then it clearly explains why you have such impulsive thinking. If not, I would like for you to elaborate.
What happened to actually using mind games and playing fairly? Is DBD so desperate that players need to resort to cheap cheese tactics instead of actually trying to learn how to play the game properly?
So you have no idea how MMR works.
" You really think "winning" in this game is to get 4ks or finish 5 gens and exit? If so, then it clearly explains why you have such impulsive thinking. If not, I would like for you to elaborate.
What happened to actually using mind games and playing fairly?"
According to the devs, for the killer winning is precisely getting 4ks as kills are the only thing that counts towards MMR. Therefore the devs are very clearly saying "Get kills any way you can" is the way to play the game. Similarly, escapes are the only things that count towards MMR for survivors and again, the devs are very clearly saying "The way to play the game as survivor is to ensure that you escape".
Pretty cut & dried.
As to your final statement, mind games are great for getting kills and so therefore you'll still see them. As for "playing fairly"...you're joking, right? This is an asymmetrical game where the slightest mistake on the killer's part is heavily punished and they can't relax for a second. I'm afraid you'll have to turn in your copy of the survivor handbook because nobody is going to adjust their playstyle just to suit your view of how the game should be.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I doubt BHVR is ignoring killers. Decisive, hatch, toolboxes, keys, CoH, Boil Over etc. nerfed for killers. They are looking complaints and stats first, then they are deciding nerf or rework.
Decisive was just fixing an egregious situation of 60 second invulnerability. If you think CoH was a nerf then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you - it made no functional difference whatsoever.
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@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842258#Comment_2842258
They just got off the hook right? It's like camping at end game. It's more acceptable, but It's not like BT should stop working because there aren't anymore generators to defend.
Still confused - so there's one survivor left alive. Whether they just got off the hook or not, what is the killer supposed to do, leave them alone for 60 seconds? Tunnelling is going after one survivor while ignoring any other opportunities but if there's only one survivor left the killer literally has only one thing to do - take that survivor down.
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@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842080#Comment_2842080
It still is, buy usually a waste of both people's time.
Sorry, but how is going after the sole remaining survivor "tunnelling"?
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Pity poor Trapper on all of the bright maps, especially the Artist's one. 90% of the map it's impossible to hide a trap!
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BHVR are actively encouraging both camping and tunnelling by their definition of a "win" for MMR: A killer's only metric is the number of survivors they kill. Chases, hooks, mindgames - none of those matter at all, just the death count at the end of the game.
In this environment, the best play for any killer is to take out players one at a time. Hit and run has been destroyed with CoH so there's really no alternative but to reduce the odds against you by taking out players as quickly as possible.
And I knew who wrote the OP by the title without having to look at the name. Please take a moment to repair that broken record you keep playing, if you would be so kind?
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/304078/when-are-boon-totems-getting-nerfed
Absolutely NOT in my experience. Usage of Boons has significantly dropped for me since the last nerf, both with killer and survivor games. It's not rare now or anything, but if I had to guess some numbers, I would say it dropped from 9 in 10 games to maybe 2 out of 3. And at least half of the time it is in play in my killer rounds, it hardly does anything. Most often I snuff it out before anyone could heal with it, effectively wasting all the time the surv. spent to bless it.
ShadowStep is so rarely used, why you complain about that? As long as it's not in an indoor map (RPD erks), it seldom has much impact. If you have already injured them, track the blood instead of the scratchmarks. I would gladly face four man with Shadow Step, bc that means less of stacked second chance perks.
For one, the last "nerf" barely effected CoH (less than 2 seconds on worst-case scenario difference) and Shadowstep is very broken on maps like The Game, where it's super easy to break LoS and it affects both floors.
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Confirmation bias 101
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@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826221#Comment_2826221
Where exactly do you expect people to find such a source 3-5 years later?
The devs, with at most a literal handful of exceptions in 6 years, generally have not said outright that they nerfed something due to overuse and their dev comments in patch notes are a recent thing, it was always the community realizing it as the truth behind the nerf.
Undying waves hello.
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@IsMmrReal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2825780#Comment_2825780
I feel like Shadow Step is a really strong boon as well. I can tell you there have been realy crucial moments where because it was booned The killer lost the game form not being able to track the survivor. I have seen this on both sides. So I don't see how that perk is trash tier even Exponential is pretty gross. Survivors getting up in like 12 seconds is disgusting. Throw the new boon on with shadow step and that makes a pretty big difference. I just think boons are crazy good when put in certain spots and in certain situations. The fact that the killer has to waste time snuffing them is another story.
Shadow Step is very powerful on indoor maps, especially multi-level maps like The Game (which is bad enough just for it's role as Pallet-Breaking Simulatror) It's very easy to lose LOS and without scratch marks plus aura blocking over both floors it's highly effective.
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RIP poor Trapper if he gets sent there - there's almost no place to hide traps, making him effectively just an M1 killer.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2822011#Comment_2822011
I have actually said on here somewhere, she'll be back Live when the next Chapter releases...there's no plans for a hotfix prior to that.
Okay thanks for that, I looked but couldn't find anything official so I must have missed that.
Much appreciated!
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Given how BHVR have categorically stated that for the killers, kills are all that counts or matters (via MMR's scoring mechanism that only rewards kills) it's not surprising that killers are focusing on taking someone completely out of the game rather than leaving them in. By improving the odds they greatly increase their chance of moving up in MMR.
Additionally, the introduction of CoH has made it impossible to play Hit & Run anymore, if you're going to chase a survivor you can't leave them until they're hooked, so tunnelling and camping will also increase given how easy and quick it is to reset health with zero investment in perks or time for 3/4 of the survivors' team.
CoH is also the only boon that works best when the killer is nowhere near it - Shadowstep adds little value except for the aura-hiding if the killer is on the other side of the map for instance as does the anti-slug one, but CoH is worst when the killer is near/inside it's radius and best when the killer is on the other side of the map. Once more, incentive for the killer to go after one survivor and take them out.
So complain to BHVR about their encouragement of tunnelling and camping via MMR and CoH.
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I'd love to see a comment from BHVR on an ETA to get Nurse back. @MandyTalk any hints?
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Pretty sure I counted over 20 pallets there one time.
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@Jaxton2000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2821649#Comment_2821649
I agree, it's a strong loop for survivors, BUT risky already when it isn't one of the killer i've metioned, When it is one of the killers i've mentioned, it's an easy win for the killer, and fault on the survivor right? But I don't do this, other people in solo que's do.
So what you're saying is some survivor players are bad so punish killers to compensate.
Seriously?
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BHVR are the reason for an increase in tunnelling/camping when they made it absolutely clear that only kills matter, as that's the only thing that contributes to MMR for killers. Adding in CoH which destroys the Hit & Run playstyle and there is no point to a killer not following a survivor down until they get them dead. Anything else is pretty much wasted time.
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@Tylerja1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2820000#Comment_2820000
And a killer camping ruins 4 people's games, including their own for ######### BP. Tunneling someone out ruins 4 people's game aswell , and you're also taking into account behaviors current DC system which is ass, in other games they actually protect other team members
Okay, please explain how on earth Tunneling someone out ruins 4 people's games? Do you honestly think that the killer should get 1 hook on all survivors then 2 hooks on them and only then go for kills? Because if so, you're playing the wrong game.
The fact that you state that your perfect game includes maximum farming shows that you're by far the minority as well.
It looks like DbD is not the game for you.
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@Pukenplag said:
People over here attempting to debate with Sluzzy, while I am wondering when did Sluzzy begin to actually make sense.
That's an easy one: Never.
But don't get me wrong, Sluzzy is comedy gold and I look forward to their every post.
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It took them three years to fix the egregious Nurse bugs and when they did so they broke her so badly they've had to killswitch her with no timeline on when she'll be back, if ever.
Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath.
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I would hope that they don't nerf her, that's for sure!
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@illusion said:
No, they need to stop using perks as band-aid fixes, rather than addressing the underlying issues. If they made it so camping and tunneling were not necessary, there would be no need for perks to address those. If the devs, themselves, hadn't encouraged camping, tunneling, and slugging as legitimate playstyles, maybe it would not have become as prevalent as it is. It wasn't always like this, but the devs keep trying to fix perceived problems with perk and addon changes, and it just keeps making things worse. The SBMM system did not help either. making it all about kills, led killers to do whatever it takes to get kills. That's all on the devs. We don't need more perks to fix the symptoms, we need them to come up with the disease(s) that is/are creating the symptoms.
I came here to say exactly this. It's not so much the perks it's that the Devs have made it absolutely clear that kills are the only thing that matters thanks to SBMM. Anything else the killer do doesn't count in the slightest. Therefore getting rid of survivors ASAP is the only winning strategy.
But there is one perk that has certainly changed killer's playstyle and for the worse, I'd say.
Circle of Healing.
Given that it completely destroys the Hit & Run strategy, if a killer doesn't focus down on one survivor at a time and down them then the killer has completely wasted their time, and so it's inevitable that the killer will go for the weakest/easiest to catch survivor every time.
So I would say that survivors don't need more anti-tunnel/anti-camping perks, the devs need to reward non-tunnelling & non-camping tactics so that they become viable rather than a waste of a killer's time. Devour Hope is a great example as pointed out earlier in the thread, it actively promotes not camping the hook - but it is also subject to the change in meta with Boon totems that means that survivors focus much more heavily on totems in order to Bless them and if it's an active Killer totem then win-win the survivors get the Boon and remove the killer's perk and so like all Hex perks it isn't surviving nearly as long as pre-Boon times.
Just my 2c worth.
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@ManyAchievables said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2817225#Comment_2817225
Put 2% movement speed into perspective.
5% movement speed is 0.2 m/s. 2% is 0.08 m/s. You go from 4 m/s to 4.08 m/s. When within a 24-meter range of a loud boon. That you have to set up for at least 14 seconds. What a terrible perk, genuinely.
Except it stacks with other speed increases like DH, Sprint burst etc.
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Prior to CoH there was far less tunnelling I believe, given that CoH completely ruins the Hit & Run method and essentially you have to take someone down once you've started chase or you've completely wasted your time.
Now that doesn't necessarily mean you have to go for that same person immediately thereafter, but with the increased pressure on the killer getting it down to a 3-1 ASAP is pretty much the only way to have a chance at more than a 2k. So if you're interested in anything more than a draw, tunnelling (and to a lesser degree camping) is pretty much the requirement, given that the Devs have clearly indicated via MMR that the only thing that counts for killers is kills.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2815338#Comment_2815338
um they literally just announced that Dead hard is being looked into.
Yeah, and Nurse was being looked into and it took three years - and they broke her so badly they had to killswitch her.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2815595#Comment_2815595
Ok let's debunk all of this.
When you constantly buff killers and nerf survivors,
Look at every single killer add-on that gets buffed every update. Recently Nemesis got a really strong one.
making perks that block all generators,
It is hardly counterable if you're going against a killer who it's specifically great for like Doctor or Artist. Artist is completely busted right now and it's ridiculous.
create maps that are just straight hallways,
There's like one good loop on RPD granted it's a god loop. It also just got buffed for killers by adding 2 hooks that can be completely blocked by a killer and are unsaveable.
keep incentivizing tunneling and camping,
Tunneling and camping is just extremely unfun to go against. It's not that it's too OP or anything it's just not fun in the slightest dying on first hook or basically being disabled from playing the game by a killer.
rarely change any survivor perks in a stale meta,
We agree on this.
Somehow make holding W meta,
Agree.
don't fix window and pallet vaults,
I get 30 ping every game. Pallet drops and stuns are fine because they got fixed but they have not fixed vaults yet and that's been confirmed by devs. It's still objectively killer sided because whatever happens on the killer's screen is law. Vaults are not server sided like pallet stuns.
making basic functions not work (spamming space bar 5 times and nothing happening),
Sometimes actions just don't work even though you press the button as many times as you want. You can also be halfway through a vault and something can block you and cancel your action. Button presses are literally suggestions lol, they aren't actual actions you can perform.
slowing down generator speeds,
A while ago (maybe a year, I don't remember) they slowed down gen speeds when you're working on them with multiple people. It used to be a 1:1 ratio where 1 person = 80 seconds and 2 people = 40 seconds but they changed it so that there's diminishing returns. Now 2 people = 45 - 50 seconds and 3 people = 40 seconds, etc.
I'm not surprised you missed almost all of this. There's a lot of changes to the game that you just aren't familiar with and I get that, just don't come after me when you don't know what you're talking about.
I'm sorry, but after you claimed that Nemesis's recent addon-changes were a big buff you lost all credibility. One of his only actually good addons got nerfed and the ones they buffed are in the "garbage" category.
Let me know when you rejoin reality and we can talk.
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I do think Dead Hard should be killswitched until they can fix the major bug of it "eating" a killer's power. Fine when you DH you get the iframes but it shouldn't invalidate the killers power, such as Nemmy's tentacles on a pallet. Survivor hits DH as Nemmy whips over a pallet - the hit misses as it should but the pallet doesn't break which it definitely should do.
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@Tiufal said:
So besides the whiny minority in this forum, most killer have no issues playing against those perks. This is just another case of git gud.
Wow, it must be nice to be able to speak on behalf of all killer players. I'm particularly interested in where you got your data that "most killers have no issues playing against those perks". Citation please.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
At least disabling her indicates it will be fixed very soon.
Wow, you've clearly never seen how BHVR works. "Very soon" is BHVR's term for "Within three years"
I wish they had a proper Q&A team and regression testing, but clearly that has never been a BHVR priority.
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Not to mention it's pure hell for poor Trapper players.
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I feel sorry for anyone playing Trapper who gets Eyrie, that's for sure.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784713#Comment_2784713
Killer's objective is hooks and not bleeding out though, so yes, you just proven this IS holding the game hostage.
Oh, and also do note that locker situation is exactly what dev said they will consider "holding the game hostage", and calling it otherwise yield nothing for you sadly.
Correction: The Killer's objective is kills, not necessarily hooks. Bleeding out, Mori's or the Entity taking them at EGC are all valid methods of securing kills.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2794022#Comment_2794022
How much further can they nerf CoH, before it is Self-Care speed? It’s fine where it is.
It was nerfed by a whole 2 seconds if there are no medkits or other perks involved.
Effectively, CoH hasn't been nerfed at all.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2790140#Comment_2790140
My data? Every billy had double charge add ons or Engravings and Carburator/Thompson's mix.
I wonder if you ever play the pre nerf billy. Probably you're 2021 killer.
I mained pre-nerf Billy, hence why I knew your supposed data was nothing but conjecture.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Billy "feels" miserable after the nerf because survivors playstyle has changed, and the overused instasaw is gone.
"Feels" bad not to instasaw survivors with 1 second saw charge. This is why the majority of billy mains are gone. The instasaw.
Wow, impressive that you know the thinking process of the majority of billy mains. Care to share your data?
I mean, it couldn't have anything to do with ######### up perspective, that stupid roar, useless addon changes, overheat idiocy etc right? Has to be butthurt over one combination - and I don't believe it was ever 1 second saw charge though happy to be proven wrong.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787608#Comment_2787608
Well, point of this perk confuse killer. If killer knows you have this perk, they will check area for hooks. This perk never hurted except new version. Now perk is not abusable but still garbage.
If there was no indication of this perk affecting the killer then there would be a horde of bug reports noting that the hooks are no longer showing when carrying a survivor, the devs have no choice but to keep that notification in place.
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Yeah, body blocking is literally saying "Please hit me". They can't complain if you continue to follow their stated wish with a second hit, it's showing how much you love them!
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I'm sorry but when you use a blanket statement like "all killers are OP" your post isn't going to get taken seriously. Additionally complaining that survivors are slower than the killer - if they were faster then it would be impossible for anyone but the ranged killers to ever get a hit! It's a 4v1 game, the "1" has to have an advantage.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779985#Comment_2779985
Just responding on the boons because in the others cases we either agree or it’s actually a subjective matter.
Boons are not meant to be the survivors equivalent of Hexes. They have similarities being Totem based sure. But otherwise they are different and should be treated that way. CoH is busted, the others are not OP and not on the level of Hex effects.
Shadow Step is kinda busted, at least from my perspective as a newb killer. Giving 2 free perks to every other survivor for zero cost to them is a big power shift. Completely blocking both the primary tracking system of scratch marks (yes I know about blood but it's harder to track, especially on some maps) and blocking every Aura perk makes it damn tough, and if they're running multiple Boon perks it's an added multiplier for an additional zero time cost.
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I love my Demo, though I do note that the Undetectable status doesn't really help him much given his STOMP STOMP STOMP sounds - they really need to fix how loud he sounds when he walks, as Undetectable doesn't block or reduce that sound level.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2778358#Comment_2778358
Add this to it to since killer is only measured by high mmr and survivor isn't doesn't that mean bully squads at lower mmr should be factored in?
I'm a fairly new player (just over 100 hours) and I'll admit that Killer is getting far less fun to play, I often get matched up with survivors with far more time in than I have and it's just rough as hell.
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@Heartbound said:
Last time someone tried that on me in the library I let them bleed out.
Yeah, Boil Over == slugfest. What other option does the killer have, and even that is problematic with the bully squads with Unbreakable, Hex:Unbreakable 😁etc
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I would suggest that the territorial killers (Hag & Trapper in particular) have been hit the hardest. It's trivially easy for survivors to set up CoH on the far side of the map from the killer's trapped territory thus forcing them to either constantly lose progress as a hit survivor hoofs it over to Boon-Town - if they follow to down them then they leave their trapped area and become solely M1 killers without mobility or they let them go and lose the effort/time put into the chase. It's even worse if they trudge halfway across the map to snuff the boon as it will be back up in less than 30 seconds once they turn to trudge back to their trapped area.
CoH is a lose-lose proposition for territorial killers.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741608#Comment_2741608
Where is the proof? All the data is showing the opposite.
I think people have repeated "the game is survivor sided" enough, that people just believe it without questioning it.
Look at what we are seeing...
- The developers latest release of data is showing killers, on average, getting over 50% kills
- One of the most well respected streamers, Otz, who probably has the most knowledge of the game, just from the shear amount he plays, saying that Killer is fine.
- Several forum posters, including me and @KayTwoAyy, keeping independent track of games and seeing a Kill rate above 2 per match on average. (We did it while camping but camping is suppose to be weaker than playing the game normally). There's been other posters who have kept data and are showing about the same kill rate that @KayTwoAyy and I have seen.
- Tournaments, as mentioned by @ScottJund in his videos, showing that Killers were getting over a 2.0 kill rate.
I'm not saying this is definitive data but there is a lot of different sources all showing that the game is Killer sided. In fact, I'm not really seeing data saying the opposite. Just people saying, "The game is survivor sided".
Otz and Scott saying that killer is fine just means that you need to play this game full-time for a living in order to have a chance as Killer. Not really what you were trying to prove I suspect.
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The new Boil Over + the new wiggle mechanism buff means that many more chases are completely invalidated. The killer spends a lot of time and effort in chasing and downing a survivor only to have it thrown away by a perk that requires zero effort or skill and an easy mechanism that can be macro'd very easily if it's too difficult for you.
So yeah, essentially when a killer sees that Boil Over icon it's slugging time. What other options do they have? There is no counterplay for either effect.
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What nerf?
Seriously, a whopping just under 2 seconds longer to heal in the current ultra-fast healing rate of COH (not counting medkits or other perks that stack) doesn't count as a nerf.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2771217#Comment_2771217
You said they need to take a Stats class. But all you really mean is their decisions go against your intuition. For all you know the data they have actually lines up with their changes though.
We can only go by what little data they show, and that doesn't indicate why they've made the decisions they have. They can't fall back on "The data shows that we needed to do this" but refuse to demonstrate the data, when what they have done is widely acknowledged as idiotic. Twins being "monsters"????
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CoH didn't really get nerfed, less than 2 extra seconds on an already insanely fast heal isn't going to change a single thing.