AsherFrost
AsherFrost
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Which honestly is the issue with all of these "experiments" being done by people hoping to prove all sorts of things on both sides. There is pretty much no variable control, so you are left with something that isn't at all repeatable or falsifiable (the hallmarks of an actual good experiment) and instead have done nothing but record anecdotal data to present as evidence.
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I think it should be fixed to be more consistent across platforms, but that's it. Other than that, it's a good 2nd chance perk and still fits within the theme and framework of the game. You have the ability to save it already, and honestly it shouldn't feel like a certain thing. DS should be like countering the EMMI, or getting a parry on a Souls Boss. It should be difficult and impactful. In fact I'd be all for doubling the stun length and cutting the bar down to make it harder to hit.
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If be down for a game mode like that, as long as hooks were removed and moris were available on first down to balance it out, but then we're just playing F13 with a better variety of killers, which I'm all for, as I absolutely loved that game.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733932#Comment_2733932
I am being honest, and again, you're assuming things about me that are not true. This is all about perception and your perception of my opinions is that I want the game easier and killers to be on the same level of ability as survivors. This is not true. Believe it or not it is possible to improve the survivor experience without also hindering the killer one. That is why I constantly say the game needs to fundamentally change. If a survivor's team was bad, but you weren't, why should the odds be against you in that situation? I'm not saying it should guarantee anything. I'm just saying far too much relies on the performance of the team that essentially just screws the person actually trying unless you by chance find the hatch first.
"If a survivor's team was bad, but you weren't, why should the odds be against you in that situation?"
In what team based game, either video, irl, or even board game, are the odds not against you if your team plays worse than the other side?
These are the kinds of statements that lead people to believe you are asking for killers to be blanket nerfed so survivors can 1v1 them easier. If you have a bad team, you're likely to lose, no matter the game. That's not the game's fault, that's on the team.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733613#Comment_2733613
Put it twice so this time maybe you'll read it at least once.
That's all well and good, but that's not going to work if you finish gen five and then the killer spots you. He's still going to get the chase halved.
'Just leave' is forgetting that the killer has two spots to patrol (With 4% bonus movespeed) and the survivors still have to open the gates.
You're oversimplifying an incredibly nuanced game.
Also seriously, if the killer is standing still, camping a hook. That's the easiest possible time to find totems to either note or destroy/boon as you see fit. Camping is the exact opposite of applying pressure.
It's the easiest possible time, sure, but you do guarantee that your team doesn't win if you do so. You have 120 seconds to finish all gens, open the gate and get out, otherwise the killer will move on to the next target. If they have NOED, they might just slug for the 4K, because you can't do both the gens and the totems in 120 seconds. It's one or the other, and either way you lose out.
You said that I can't count survivors having 16 perks as a team, because they don't keep them when they die, I pointed out how ridiculous that idea is. That's not moving any goalposts. You seemed to be saying that if a perk can be removed it shouldn't count, which considering we're discussing a hex here, is absolutely hilarious.
Then you're massively misunderstanding what I said.
You said 'It's one perk slot out of 16'. I pointed out that 1 perk slot out of 16 isn't going to be enough, because it can be shut down by the killer chasing the one who has the perk, meaning you need another one with that perk to pick up the slack. In solo play, this generally translates to 4 out of 16 perks being used up for what you're suggesting.
NOED doesn't have a design problem, is my point.
And that is where we fundamentally disagree.
"That's all well and good, but that's not going to work if you finish gen five and then the killer spots you. He's still going to get the chase halved."
And why shouldn't he? He played all game with 3 perks, and now spotted you when his 4th finally kicked in. That's how the game works. Sometimes, you get spotted at a bad time. Sometimes you turn the corner and run right into the killer. Sometimes ruin spawns right next to a survivor. If "fair" to you means that the counterplay always works 100% of the time, then nothing is fair.
Yes, the killer can shut down the perk by killing the survivor who has it, so winning 4 chases against a survivor. Luckily the perk only helps with totems, it's not something that is required to find or destroy them. (Compared to the ways survivors can remove some perks, by destroying a totem that can't run or hide, it's a bit more work)
As a matter of fact, I had to look up what the perk was called because I don't use it. There are 10 spawn points per map, they aren't hard to find, so I bring Inner Strength instead as my totem perk. (I prefer it over COH as it's not dependant on being in a certain spot on the map, and quite frankly, COH isn't hard to come by with my teammates)
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1. The Licker. First time I saw that thing on the ceiling it stuck with me. Not a boss or anything, just freaky and a really good sign of what was to come.
2. Angie/Donna Beniviento from Village. I know everyone loved the TVL, and Heisenberg was awesome as well, but I love the lore behind our reclusive genius. I would love to see her in DbD
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733404#Comment_2733404
So yes, it's fair. The rest comes down to the semantics of what counterplay is best to employ. You can take a bit of extra time (when survivors set the pace of the match, and aren't actually pressed for time at any point outside of the egc) or you can just remember where the dulls are and check at the end when noed activates. Don't want to do either? Just leave. If the killer is so good at pressure despite being handicapped all match by being down a perk that you can't even think about totems, guess what? That means he earned that noed activation.
That's the point: It's not really fair.
It's not 'a bit of extra time', it's quite a lot. Especially when survivors cannot communicate. 'But then bring small game': okay, but then the cost is quite a bit of time, plus up to four perk slots.
The idea that survivors aren't pressed for time is also completely dependent on the match and the other players, including the killer.
The problem is in the supposed counterplay. Doing those five totems is a huge investment when survivors aren't by default equipped to deal with it. And it doesn't even help them that much if they do get all five. If they get all five, and the killer has NOED, it's bad, since it's heavy slowdown. If the killer didn't have NOED, it's worse.
That's why I stated that, paradoxically, NOED would be more fair if it was active from the start.
And there's also a major problem with 'good pressure = earned NOED activation' in that camping exists.
The fact that death removes a perk doesn't really change the fact that the survivor team gets 16. That's just how asymmetrical games work. One side starts off at an advantage (generally the team with more players) and the other has to whittle down that advantage (usually by killing the other team). That's what makes it fair for killer players. Losing the advantage when your team is killed off is literally a defining characteristic of the genre, so I don't know why you want to pretend it's a brand new concept.
You're moving the goalposts.
You stated that the survivors have sixteen perk slots available and they need only one to slot in Small Game. I pointed out that that is not true. Now you've turned the discussion around to face off against some strawman where you seem to think I'm opposed to the idea of a survivor's perks ceasing function when that survivor dies.
NOED activating at the start wouldn't make it more fair, it would make it useless and still manage to piss off survivor players. At the beginning of the match, when the pendulum is fully in the survivor side, it's far too easy to clear, and yet at the same time I can't see a world where starting the match exposed, with a killer who has a speed boost, is going to be seen as fair by survivor players. They already claim now that noed gives "free" kills when it activates, removing the ability to stop it from activating just makes that perception worse.
It would fix one of NOED's design issues, was my point.
"or you can just remember where the dulls are and check at the end when noed activates. Don't want to do either? Just leave."
"or you can just remember where the dulls are and check at the end when noed activates. Don't want to do either? Just leave."
-Put it twice so this time maybe you'll read it at least once. Also seriously, if the killer is standing still, camping a hook. That's the easiest possible time to find totems to either note or destroy/boon as you see fit. Camping is the exact opposite of applying pressure.
You said that I can't count survivors having 16 perks as a team, because they don't keep them when they die, I pointed out how ridiculous that idea is. That's not moving any goalposts. You seemed to be saying that if a perk can be removed it shouldn't count, which considering we're discussing a hex here, is absolutely hilarious.
NOED doesn't have a design problem, is my point. Making it activate in any way at the beginning of the match would definitely introduce one, however.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728158#Comment_2728158
Okay if this is true and @Sluzzy is a god-tier Nurse, he will be getting 4Ks almost every match. So wouldn't it be realisable that his conclusion of survivors being too weak is valid?
Oh no am I a survivor main now?
That's actually my theory on what is going on here. Lots of people think Sluzzy's a troll, or entitled. I think he is so good at nurse that he thinks survivors don't have a chance, then he plays solo, gets matched with potato teammates and feels that belief is validated.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733480#Comment_2733480
I have no idea what that means, but sure.
I played normally and used Small Game to help me track how many totems were cleansed.
I also recorded how many were Booned near the end of the game.
Also, perhaps you'd like to see it before you draw any conclusions?
I did see it, you've brought it up quite often. I even brought up my issues with your methodology, which I see you have forgotten, which isn't surprising considering how they were ignored as you clearly got the data you set out to get. I don't have the inclination to go over it all again on a third thread with you, so I'll just say the plural of anecdote isn't evidence.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733507#Comment_2733507
im sorry but its quite literally the end of the first sentence, twice within the first paragraph. how can you miss that?!
You and your fancy reading. You mean you don't just look at the character model once and decide you know all about it?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733471#Comment_2733471
Isn't Slinger of Irish descent + experienced racism when growing up too?
Shhh, not now, he's got a half-baked low information take on an issue he doesn't understand to get out there, don't go ruining it with "facts"
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733399#Comment_2733399
Okay you play killer right. Go to killer and you’ll notice he has a power. Now I want you to go to survivor and then look what the power slot is replaced with. Yea. It’s replaced with items. Items make a big difference but y’all can put a stop to that with ONE perk.
Perks make a big difference too, yet survivors can remove some killer perks from the game completely, and don't even need a special item, perk, or offering, they just have to hold a button for a few seconds on an item that doesn't run away and is even lit up for your convenience.
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733399#Comment_2733399
Okay you play killer right. Go to killer and you’ll notice he has a power. Now I want you to go to survivor and then look what the power slot is replaced with. Yea. It’s replaced with items. Items make a big difference but y’all can put a stop to that with ONE perk.
Yup.
Now go back and notice there are 4 survivors.
And 1 killer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733448#Comment_2733448
You're talking to the guy who literally ran a totem experiment that required me to run Small Game for 200 games.
When you've done the research and put in the effort, go ahead and debate.
Right now though, all I'm seeing is you insulting me because I disagree with you.
Ah yes, your vaunted experiment where you took 200 games to show that if you play this like it's 1v1, you're going to have a bad time.
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733448#Comment_2733448
No I’m not running a perk to counter a killer perk that is just dumb because what if they don’t run hex’s then I just wasted a very valuable perk slot
Luckily there's only a handful of maps, and in each map there are fixed spawn locations. (If you took part in the Halloween festivities the pumpkins actually spawned at those locations) so just check those spots, and remember where totems are, then if it turns out the killer has NOED, you already know where to look to get rid of it.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733071#Comment_2733071
BT and DS are meta because survivors love unsafe unhooks, let's be honest there.
No, it's because camping and tunnelling are incredibly effective. If survivors are going for unsafe unhooks, you can bet they won't pull you off the hook with BT in their pocket.
And while I definitely agree that BT is bad in that it encourages unsafe unhooks, it is still an anti-camping measure. And DS especially.
70 seconds to remove all totems. Much shorter to just identify them. Again, this is time taken by the side that literally dictates the pace of the match. Also, seriously doesn't take much communication, I play solo literally 99.9% of the time, comms are a crutch for players without situational awareness.
We're not talking about identifying them, the discussion was about the alleged counterplay of 'do bones'. Yes, identifying and checking is better, but that doesn't mean that 'do bones' isn't a terrible idea.
We're also not talking about how powerful NOED is, just about how fair it is, and specifically, that it would be, paradoxically, more fair if it was active from the start.
And survivors setting the pace is not a black-and-white scenario. A killer applying good pressure will absolutely dictate the game's pace. Not to mention campers, who literally state 'you have 120 seconds or else I kill another one'.
Yes, the perk doesn't work as well if the person carrying it is killed. So, like all perks.
Yes, but that does throw a spanner into your argument of 'You've got 16 perk slots across your team so just one isn't a big deal'.
1. If the argument is solely how "fair" it is, then that's easy. It's perfectly fair. It's a perk in the game, and to use it you have to essentially be short a perk all match. It has multiple different forms of counterplay, and can be removed entirely from the match.
So yes, it's fair. The rest comes down to the semantics of what counterplay is best to employ. You can take a bit of extra time (when survivors set the pace of the match, and aren't actually pressed for time at any point outside of the egc) or you can just remember where the dulls are and check at the end when noed activates. Don't want to do either? Just leave. If the killer is so good at pressure despite being handicapped all match by being down a perk that you can't even think about totems, guess what? That means he earned that noed activation.
2. The fact that death removes a perk doesn't really change the fact that the survivor team gets 16. That's just how asymmetrical games work. One side starts off at an advantage (generally the team with more players) and the other has to whittle down that advantage (usually by killing the other team). That's what makes it fair for killer players. Losing the advantage when your team is killed off is literally a defining characteristic of the genre, so I don't know why you want to pretend it's a brand new concept.
3. NOED activating at the start wouldn't make it more fair, it would make it useless and still manage to piss off survivor players. At the beginning of the match, when the pendulum is fully in the survivor side, it's far too easy to clear, and yet at the same time I can't see a world where starting the match exposed, with a killer who has a speed boost, is going to be seen as fair by survivor players. They already claim now that noed gives "free" kills when it activates, removing the ability to stop it from activating just makes that perception worse.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732915#Comment_2732915
Yeah, it's 70 seconds spread amongst 4 people, -disregarding the time it takes to find the totem-, and due to the way the counterplay works, it does NOT require a perk slot. AND those four people need to coordinate amongst each other.
16 perk slots for just 1 person to bring something other than BT/DS/DH/COH
This is also a really bad take, because that one person is usually me. And what happens when I get chased? That's right, the perk is useless, not just to me, but to everyone!
Perhaps the meta is so stale because survivors would rather claim something is "unfun" "unfair" or "op" rather than swap a meta perk for one that would help with their specific issues.
Look at the list you put up. Half of that list is already there specifically because they're perks -that help with specific issues-. You want to make it 3/4. Pitch in UB, you're at 4/4.
The meta is stale because, outside of DH and CoH (Which does deserve nerfing), most of the survivor load-out is there specifically to counter design issues. This whole attitude of 'just bring X perk' is exactly what this meta is. You're advocating for making it worse by locking in another band-aid perk.
DS, in its current form, is one of the worst perks in the game. It is not particularly high value, it has a very steep cost to use, and it is incredibly easy to counterplay. And it's still being picked all the time, simply because tunnelling is so overbearing that you need DS if you don't want to risk a killer that just tunnels for an easy win.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732917#Comment_2732917
I don't know how this argument has anything to do with that calculation. 14 x 5 = 70. That's 70 seconds of slowdown.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732931#Comment_2732931
Doing bones is literally your worst option. 99% of the time, you WILL end up making things worse for yourself and your team. Leave the totems and try to bait NOED into one that's near you.
BT and DS are meta because survivors love unsafe unhooks, let's be honest there. That's not even from playing killer, playing solo taught me that, they don't look around, they run over traps, sometimes they come in while being chased. That's not bad game design, that's dumb plays.
70 seconds to remove all totems. Much shorter to just identify them. Again, this is time taken by the side that literally dictates the pace of the match. Also, seriously doesn't take much communication, I play solo literally 99.9% of the time, comms are a crutch for players without situational awareness.
Yes, the perk doesn't work as well if the person carrying it is killed. So, like all perks.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732988#Comment_2732988
So basically a form of security theater?
If that is how you view locking your front door, then sure.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732988#Comment_2732988
My issue with the chat filter/mask removal is that it just hides the people who are the issue.
I WISH they had a better report system and then if you report somebody with clear proof (like saved chat logs after a report) that person would be banned.
With the current chat filters I have no idea if somebody is threatening me and my mother, or telling me gg and that I played well...
I do too, but then, I doubt this was an either/or decision. I mean, I don't think for a second there was a meeting where they said "well, we can fix the chat system or remove these cosmetics, gotta pick one". I remain hopeful that they will improve the reporting function with time.
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The argument for removing the masks is similar to the one for having a chat filter and report system at all. Do these things magically end all harassment? No, but they make it that much more difficult, and by doing so will stop a lot of harassment from happening. Just like the lock on your door doesn't make your home immune to burglary, just difficult enough to burgle to stop most people. Those who have a deep enough burning desire to be racist shitbags will still find a way, but the more "amateur" racists, if you will, are stymied.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
Why can't streamers turn their stream off when this is happening?
Probably the same reason you can't just decide to leave your job in the middle of your shift.
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@ShinobuSK said:
People dont even try to play killer to see how he works so they can learn counterplay.
Calling it OP and asking for nerf is much easier.
If you play Blight and then survivor against a blight, I guarantee you that you will make him sweat to get hits on you.
If you never played blight it may seem that he can hit you anywhere and theres nothing you can do. Which is not true at all
Pretty much this.
The best tip for dealing with any killer that seems to wreck you every time you face them is just to spend some time playing as that killer. Nothing teaches you counterplay faster.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732941#Comment_2732941
If only the people whining about NoED would hear this. 😛
But holding m1 on a totem is boring and gets in the way of the thrill a second that is holding m1 on a gen!
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732849#Comment_2732849
14 x 5 = 70 seconds, not counting time spent looking for them, which can be doubled up if survivors look around areas where another survivor has already cleansed a totem.
Thana gets you 80 seconds if you maintain 4 injuries for all five gens. And Thana costs a perk slot.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732856#Comment_2732856
Right, we get four perk slots and a variety of perks, not so that we can choose and customise, but so that we can acquire a strict set of perks used to fix bad design and literally never change them.
'Why is the survivor meta so stale!?'
I love how in these discussions people try and act like this is a 1v1 game.
70 seconds spread amongst 4 people, specifically the side that chooses how fast the match is going via gen speeds.
16 perk slots for just 1 person to bring something other than BT/DS/DH/COH
Perhaps the meta is so stale because survivors would rather claim something is "unfun" "unfair" or "op" rather than swap a meta perk for one that would help with their specific issues.
It isn't about fixing bad game design, I personally find that once you know the 10 possible spawn points on each map for totems, the perk becomes superfluous, but if remembering 10 places is too much, they gave you a perk.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732699#Comment_2732699
It will never be a problem if four randos with zero comms coordinate that effort.
Unless, of course, the killer didn't bring NOED, giving them very strong slowdown without needing a perk slot.
If only there was a perk to take that would show you how many totems remain on the map. Maybe one that helped you find them as well...
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
"Ruins an outlet of fun for survivors"
You mean bullying the killer with flashlights?
Apparently yes, reading the rest of his responses that's exactly what he means. I think this man aims for Sluzzy's crown
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@Predated said:
As long as devs do not give us a thumbs down option to simply indicate the player being a generic c*nt, I will use the Unsportsmanlike Conduct button even if its just to lower frustration.
I do not want to be matched up against players who dont have good sportsmanship. Being able to like/dislike a user and have an algoritm try to avoid being matched up with and against similar players through it's best efforts would make the overal experience so much better(its gonna be impossible to avoid all of them, but reducing the consistency of aggrivating opponents/teammates on a single day is all I ask).
Right now, rating the post-game match is the only thing that I know has a significant effect, reporting certain players also has somewhat of an effect when it's actually bannable, even though we never recieve feedback for it(which would also be nice, knowing a player got banned through your efforts gives you reason to keep reporting players who did the exact same thing), but giving a player a thumbs up? No reason to do so.
In case anyone is wondering why legitimate reports take so long to resolve, it may be related to the sheer amount of reports they get for things that aren't reportable, but still give people the sads.
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@Zolfo16 said:
The game should push you to run from killers, not to search a place where you must be grabbed in order to avoid a mechanic programmed to not work if you must be grabbed.
It is metagame thinking.
New players obv do not know this is a thing, they see a killer murdering other surv and they run, they do not hide in front of him!
It is senseless, it make sense only because it is a videogame with a really particular addons that work that way.
To be fair, running from him also works. The options presented on the forum are generally more advanced than just "run away from the big bad guy" because people here tend to assume that those asking for advice understand that part already.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729118#Comment_2729118
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729134#Comment_2729134
Okay, sure:
2017: September +2128, October +392, November -526, December -751
Big gain early on, small gain during Spooky Season, small losses after halloween
2018: September +2363, October +606, November -3971, December +1196
Big gain early on, small gain during spooky season, big loss after halloween, but big gain in Christmas time
2019: September +4205, October -3074, November +3079, December +479
Big gain early on, Big loss during spooky season, big gain after halloween that kept going into Christmas time
2020: September -249, October -6425, November +2810, December -651
Losses early on followed by the biggest monthly loss up until that point despite it being Spooky Season, a gain in November and a small loss in December
So, to be clear: the game has ups and downs but by no means is Halloween a big up that always has a precipitous drop immediately after it. And, for that matter, in every other year, those Steam numbers have been going up in at least 2 of the 4 months listed. 2021 saw Steam numbers going down in 3 of the four, and (if you look a little further back), August of 2021 had the biggest loss of all time for DbD: -11,359.
So month after month of progressive losses in the face of that huge loss ain't great! In the last 6 months, DbD has lost nearly 30% of its Steam users.
Higher number, roughly the same percentage.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729106#Comment_2729106
You're using year to year. If you look month to month (as in, when SBMM came into the game), the picture is less good:
September 2021 51,390.7
October 2021 50,161.5
November 2021 44,958.7
December 2021 44,639.5
That's a 6,751 player loss since SBMM, which is a 13% loss of players. And all that happened during a time where players were getting log-in bonuses, lots of free BP codes, a custom seasonal event, a brand new killer and survivor, and earnable cosmetics.
Compare those same 4 months for the life of the game and you see a pretty clear pattern there. Much like with horror movies, this game gets a lot more popular every year around the spooky season.
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Valid play. I will say, If you are trying for downs, I've personally found the basement doesn't work best for huntress, my preferred egc hook for her is wherever I can get the best visibility. Of course that all depends on where you get the down and what perks you are running.
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@lunchb0x63 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729055#Comment_2729055
It wasn't a hack, no. I was playing against The Shape, and unfortunately I wasn't able to see his add-ons or perks. My capture of the playthrough didn't show in, and in the scoreboard they aren't visible until visible until end of the game. This happened at the beginning of the match. Yes, I could have done a better job dodging, I'll readily admit that. When he caught me he just picked me up and stabbed me. I get it. Its part of the game. I don't think this is intentional unsporting conduct by the player, but for the killer to have the ability to kill someone and remove them match without and hits or hook status definitely takes the fun out of it. Especially when you have to wait for several minutes just to get into a game.
Yeah, sounds like tombstone. So he was sitting there stalking you (or your teammates) for quite some time to get that ability, he loses it fairly quickly, and there are audio cues to let you know when he's got it. As Broken said, when you hear those and see him, your best bet is to go full Dwight and hop in a locker, this stops him from getting the mori and makes him either hook you or let you go.
Also, and this is honestly where I struggle as well, you've got to keep an eye out, look for him, don't let him stand there building up his stalk meter. When you see him standing there like the most awkward boy at the dance, run away. His power is all built on stalk meter, he builds it by standing and staring at survivors, unlike ghostface he can't peek around the corner.
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You're going to need to clarify a few things.
Did you happen to see what add-ons the killer brought with?
Were you grabbed and killed (Mori) or did you just drop dead after an m1? (Hack)
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@Regulus47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729006#Comment_2729006
Sounds not very fair to stop a survivor from playing the game by facecamping them
Nobody stopped you from playing the game. Being on a hook is part of playing as survivor. This is probably the only pvp game I've ever seen where people seriously try to use this argument.
Even the literal children playing Fortnite, when they are sniped out of the air before they get a chance to even take a step (far less "playing" than a healthy survivor gets being chased for 2 health states by a killer in DbD) don't try and claim they were unfairly stopped from playing, and they're just eliminated in that game, no chance of rescue.
Even in games like the Souls and Watch Dogs, where you could invade someone's game and kill them while they are trying to complete a quest, people don't whine that they aren't being allowed to play.
I played F13 for years and never heard that complaint, and again, once you die there, that's it. No 3 hook stages, 1 brutal kill animation and you're stuck watching and hoping you get to be the next Tommy.
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@Deimos101 said:
I was thinking that they could create like a ring around a hooked survival and if the killer stays within that ring for more than 20 seconds they get blinded or something because when people don't care about their rank camping can get incredibly annoying losing to like a bubba because u can't get anywhere near 🤷♂️
So then after someone is hooked, the next survivor I chase has somewhere to instantly run to as a safe zone to get a free blind, and, assuming they actually want to remove the safe zone early, a free unhook...
I'm not sure who this would end up frustrating more, the killers who can't chase survivors without them running to their buddy for the free blind, or solo survivors who will undoubtedly be the ones hanging the longest on the hooks as their teammates play ring around the Rosie Everytime they get spotted.
The argument I hear over and over against camping is that it "stops people from being able to play" now, personally I think that's nonsense, but if that is the case, I don't see how the solution is giving survivors a reason not to rescue people from the hook.
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So Everytime bubba is chasing someone they have a safe zone to run to? Doesn't seem in keeping with the spirit of the game, though it does bring to mind when BHVR made it so that hook progress slowed if the killer was nearby. Nobody got rescued, because the survivors preferred to keep that safe zone up, rather than have a full, working team.
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Claudette. She reminds me of a dear friend, and was the first character I ever played as.
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Pinhead's voice lines. I still say them to myself, but it's not the same.
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@ChurchofPig said:
If they gave us base kit kindred they'd have to rework kindred to do something else. I'm not trying to defend them not doing it, but if I had to choose between making a new base kit mechanic or making a perk base kit and then also reworking the perk, I'd just make a new base kit mechanic.
It's a general perk, not a teachable, so would they need to rework it at all or just get rid of it? Make it basekit, remove the perk, and give everyone 30k bp
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727662#Comment_2727662
Any killer? Are you sure? We have Clown, you know.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727665#Comment_2727665
Ofcourse we do. Nurse, Hag, Huntress, Spirit, Plague, Oni, Pyramid Head, Blight and Artist are okay killers. Other killers need major or minor buffs.
If I wanted to see a fat guy with bad lipstick I'd steal my wife's lipstick and look in a mirror, lol.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727655#Comment_2727655
They just said said want to open up and be more transparent.
that doesn’t mean they have to be 100% transparent about everything and it doesn’t make sense to call them out for anything regarding this new statement.
(I agree that the explanation of how SBMM works was weird and directly contradicting an earlier statement but apparently this is something the community is okay with..)
They've said they want to be more transparent for over 5 years now. At what point, according to you, would it be appropriate then to point out that they've been anything but transparent for those 5 years? If I said every month for 5 years that I was going to give you 100 USD, how long would it take before you decided the money just wasn't going to show?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727652#Comment_2727652
He is ugly and probably most annoying killer in game. And he is not even strong.
Yeah, he definitely needs a good buff, I agree.
As far as ugly? I mean, I don't find any of the killers attractive myself, but I don't judge. You do you
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727616#Comment_2727616
but… they never told us about any internal variables and they don’t have to to be transparent.
Exactly, they never told us about any internal variables, they only very recently even kind of admitted that on survivor side it appears to be based solely on whether you escape the trial. (And even then, that may not be accurate)
Do they have to be transparent? No, but if they are going to pretend like they are, and then proceed to not tell anyone anything as they have been, then they fully deserve to be criticized for that hypocrisy and lie.
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@Mooks said:
For instance, they say they are 'changing' how disconnecting works with MMR: we still don't even know how it works now, so knowing it'll be changed tells us absolutely nothing! How is this transparent?
but… they just said they want to be more transparent with how they are working on this etc and gave explanation on how dcs work with SBMM…. And then you complain about them not being transparent enough?
Because the explanation of that change, in a vacuum, is useless.
For example, they could say "we changed the DC state so that when you DC it stops the top variable from rising but doesn't hamper the lower variable from falling"
Technically that's transparent, but since they never told us what either variable is, it's nonsense.
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@RainehDaze said:
What's the other funny one, Mad Grit + Agitation so bodyblockers just waste their time and help you?
I think that's it. I used to run iron grip a lot just because I got sick of being wiggled into doorframes, and it also pairs well with agi and either starstruck or mad grit, but then you've got 3/4 perks tied up in carrying
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Just gonna add, starstruck+agitation is a hell of a combo, sabo squad or no
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725364#Comment_2725364
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725384#Comment_2725384
It is still an appeal to authority because you are framing the discussion within limitations set by said authority, when those very limitations could very well be wrong.
I get what you are saying, but these forums are here for feedback on the current state of the game, and presumably, the devs' stances are informed by the feedback provided. If we stop giving our feedback because we think that the devs disagree, then the entire forums can be closed off immediately because there's no point.
If the devs are making a mistake, these forums and these types of discussions are where this is pointed out.
Where did anyone say that people should stop leaving their feedback? You seem to be reaching to argue against points nobody is making.
Nobody has said that we can't talk about something because the devs have said they aren't changing it, just that any discussion is somewhat pointless without taking into account the current reality of the situation. It isn't about right or wrong, just acknowledging the current position of the people who you would have to convince to get the changes you want.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725302#Comment_2725302
The argument people will not utilize other strategies if they are viable is not based in reality.
How is it not based in reality? At every stage of this game, there's been camping. No matter the circumstances of the game and its balance, camping exists. That is the underlying problem.
I know what you are trying to argue, but there's no proof of your argument. You're arguing that 'Blights don't camp', but we don't know if that's actually true. By your reasoning, Nurses shouldn't camp, and I've seen that one happen.
There's no hardline, singular truth to this matter. It's not that people ONLY camp because they have no other alternative, and it's not that people will ONLY camp if that is the most effective strategy. But ultimately that matters little, because every balancing decision made will have to be considered from a perspective that includes and accounts for camping.
It is hamstringing the game's balance. It is bad for gameplay. The mere fact that it exists is hurting DBD (And not just Survivor's side, either).
It needs to be crippled.
I state that it isn't going to happen, because the game is 5 years old and the developers recently stated that they have no plans of getting rid of proximity camping. They specifically are trying to address face camping, therefore a premise and solution that gets rid of it all together is not realistic. I am simply stating a more realistic approach to addressing the frequency that one comes across these tactics as a solution rather than stating either rework the fundamentals of the game out of some ideological stance.
This is an appeal to authority. The devs are not omniscient gods of game design, and I think -everyone- here knows that. It's not a good idea to reaffirm their stance by referring to them during a discussion about whether their stance is solid or not. Their opinion is not an argument.
An appeal to authority would be "the game devs have said they won't fix it, so it's good" not "the devs have said they won't fix it, so they probably won't fix it" that's just acknowledging the reality of the situation. If the game developers don't want to change something, they won't. Since they've repeatedly said they don't want to remove proxy camping, it's reasonable to believe they won't remove proxy camping. This isn't a value judgement on camping, just acknowledging the reality that nobody is going to force the devs to change a mechanic they don't want to change.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724826#Comment_2724826
Mental health issues aren't a free pass to behave however you like.
A disproportionate number of the people you'll encounter online are ND. I'm one of them. That doesn't suddenly make whatever I do untouchable because oh no you're attacking an autistic person, and by the way, you can't argue with me because I have anxiety and denigrating my motives like this could be damaging to my health. You should have thought of every possible reason the person behind the screen may be doing what they're doing before saying anything to me, much less judging me like this.
...Or maybe that's a really unfair take? Maybe it's better to judge me for the actions and opinions I present without having to consider every indecipherable thing that goes on in my head? Maybe labels shouldn't be a shield to act with impunity when I'm the one choosing to engage in group activities on the same footing as everyone else?
There are rules. I expect people to play by them and not screw over the people around them, and people who have trouble doing that should work on moderation in whatever ways they can (whether that's practice, treatment, or removing themselves from scenarios that tend to cause flare-ups), or not be surprised when they get ostracized for antisocial behavior or even kicked out for failing to comply with said rules. They should not get a free pass to do things that are not allowed and unpleasant for the people around them because it's something they struggle with.
This concept is basically universal in society. "I have a disorder" can be an explanation, but it's not an excuse if someone intends to continue their misbehavior or doesn't see it as misbehavior at all.
Like, I recognize we're talking about disconnecting when the game's over. And realistically, when somebody's pulling the plug for the sake of removing themselves from a situation they're not dealing with, right before the game is over - if I don't have an achievement on the line, I genuinely do not care. However, I have encountered way too many people who do it with deliberate malice to assume better motives or self-care when I encounter it - especially not when I've had people hang around to abuse me in endgame chat. It's also been a recurring problem when I went for adept killer achievements, and something that robbed me several times in games I otherwise would have pulled it off. Additionally... there's a really thin line between DCing right before death and DCing whenever anything happens that you don't like, and I find that most people who do one tend to do the other - the latter of which very definitively ruins the game for other people and I refuse to take excuses short of 'a real life situation came up' or 'the other players were griefing/cheating/sandbagging' for.
And yeah, you actually do need to have a valid reason from walking away from a situation you don't want to partake in when walking away from that situation is against the rules of the game and potentially screws over other players. If ordinary gameplay is commonly unendurable to you, you shouldn't be partaking in the first place. That in and of itself is the proper thing to do for the sake of caring for your mental health.
There's nothing I can add to this, ND fist bump.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724758#Comment_2724758
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724788#Comment_2724788
No one needs to give you a valid reason for walking away from a situation they don't want to partake.
It is sad that you're passing judgement on the emotional and/or intellectual maturity of strangers in a video game.
How often do you encounter this? Less than 1% of your games, I'd imagine. I sure never see it.
Lets do a quick google search...
Oh look, a news release from the U.S. Department of Health & Human services reports that Intermitten Explosive Disorder (IED) affects as many as 7.3% of adults.
wow.
So statistically speaking, it's possible that all these "childish" people you're mocking are dealing with a disorder.
Real mature, guys.
Are you a member of the Fantastic Four? With the ability to reach like that, you'd put Mr. Fantastic out of a job.