AsherFrost
AsherFrost
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2752153#Comment_2752153
Then everyone just DCs before being downed. Which merely moves the problem a few seconds earlier.
Maybe, but I don't think by that large a number. There has to be some balance between making sure the killer isn't robbed and not wrecking the survivor team because someone got booted due to internet/platform issues when they weren't going down.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2751370#Comment_2751370
What do specs have to do with it? I've played this game for 3 years, and I can clearly see when it's "my PC", and when it's the "perfectly implemented game without a single flaw". But sure, blame the victim here, what a discerning person you are. It's not like the game, especially this game, can be bugged, can crash on its own, right? And it's not like punishing people for experiencing, not using but EXPERIENCING game-breaking bugs themselves could be wrong, right? The game crashed on you, ruining your experience? Tough luck, take your DC penalty to make it up for you, have a nice day! Show me any other game where this is even possible.
Overwatch
Rocket league
Smite
Smash
Halo
Street Fighter.
I could go on.
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If the survivor is downed/being carried. Yes, absolutely. Seems like it should be easy enough for the game to check that, if the survivor is down, count it as a hook (since the killer was 99.99% likely to get the hook regardless) if the survivor is injured, or completely healthy, it shouldn't count as a hook.
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@tippy2k2 said:
Finally after literally two years of playing this game, I finally got the damn Archive Challenge "Six Feet Under" (sacrifice four survivors in the basement) completed!!!!
The last killer archive I needed to complete to have all the killer side ones done (still need to work on the survivor ones but sooooo many damn "get 4 pallet hits in one game" challenges :,(
I had come really close in a game a few months ago but the last survivor wiggled out of my grasp when I was on the staircase going down and the damn hatch appeared in the killer shack, probably to mock me.
Wouldn't have expected M1 Ghostface to be the one who got me my basement murders but beggers can't be choosers...
Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
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1 add-on is more powerful than 1 survivor item. That's as it should be. It's 1v4. The 1 shouldn't be balanced 1 to 1 for the survivor team, that would lead to a bad game experience for all 5.
Franklin's has already been adjusted. It no longer eats items, it just removes the charges, and you have quite a bit of time before that even happens to pick it back up.
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750349#Comment_2750349
Because if the killer is still close by, they can still down you ASAP. At least if you wait until there's significant distance, you have a better chance of evading and escaping.
Again, the point is being missed... you still deserve the attempt. It's not over yet.
Your friends left you to die. Going by your OP, if we are supposed to treat this like a movie, it's the end of saw, where the doctor is screaming as jigsaw slams the door shut.
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750135#Comment_2750135
That's not true at all. Consider a scenario where you've just been hooked, and the killer chases everyone out of the gates at the other side of the map. You still deserve the kobe attempts.
Also, plenty of killers leave to look for the hatch (I do).
You can't state with absolute certainty that every kobe will result in death.
Why wouldn't you be trying to get off the hook before they leave, while he's still distracted chasing them?
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750256#Comment_2750256
I disagree. It does feel like an overreaction, based on a handful of bad actors and a deliberately uncharitable interpretation of something (much like the recent storm in a teacup over the new Warlock set in WoW).
My main concern though is precedent. This sets up a situation where someone can try to have the devs remove x by using x in a particularly nasty, bigoted way. To me, it's letting the trolls win.
But again - it's a fight that we've already fought and lost, and I'm not Custer.
1. Holy #########, WoW is still a thing?
2. this is something that was already problematic (being blackface and all). I can't think of a single other item in game that's similar. Also I'm just not convinced by any "slippery slope" argument. I got fooled once, and still can't legally marry a duck.
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@FriendlyBubba said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750255#Comment_2750255
I don't know if taking away Bubba's custom faces will solve it all because as far as I'm aware, racism is still ongoing across the globe whether you or me or others are Asian, European, American, African, etc.
I don't think that removing this will solve it and they'll keep doing this to ensure their agenda is fulfilled.
If the only time something can be done is if it solves all racism, then nothing will ever be done.
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Make Cyprus Mori basekit and we won't have these worries. Last one alive? Don't need to worry about some pesky hook.
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I don't want BT basekit.
There are already far too many players I meet who don't know what a safe unhook is. I don't really want to see how much worse that issue can get.
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@pinkpowerranger said:
Yeah, I'm probably an ######### because the idea of accommodating peoples special needs for video games reeks of ... entitlement. Poor people can't afford to play this game, should we go out and buy them a pc/console so they are not deprived of the majesty that is dbd? Or should they accept that due to limited means which may or may not be completely out of their hands, they'll have to do without
There's no "probably" about it.
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@KingSlay3R2928 said:
@MandyTalk it would be awesome if the so called community manager would actually weigh in on this issue. But nope, still being silent about an actual issue with the game.
For being a community manager or as I've been told a "dev" you certainly don't act like it. This crap is a serious health risk for players with epilepsy. Instead of being silent on it, address the issue like a good community manager should do.
Y'all are worse than Gun Media and illfonic when it comes to listening to the players/community.
I'm sure eventually I will get banned from the forums but this crap is seriously out of hand at this point.
Dude. 10th comment on the first page.
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@Zolfo16 said:
You never attacked my arguments. You always said that are weak but never explained why. You tried to ignore my points and to put all them together telling they are the same.
This is not discussing man, this is defending your little toy.
I do not care of NOED because there is never NOED when i play, I have no horses in this race, you have.
I am walking away because there is no discussion here, there is only people that have a toy and is scared of losing it.
Your arguments are weak for a few reasons.
In your first argument You restated the same thing 3 times. Yes. You did. You mentioned 3 different ways that noed is a perk that surprises people and they have to assume the killer has at first... 3 ways you found to say this. Problem is. It's not unique to noed, it's literally how all perks work. You don't know what perk any side has, you have to play around the possibility of perks they may not have until you figure it out. You have to act like they may have the perk until you've worked out what perks they have in the match.
Your second argument was that a few streamers dislike it. That's 1. A logical fallacy (argument from authority) and 2. Doesn't matter and there are as many streamers who do like it as who don't.
Your third argument was that as nurse you were able to 2k a few times with it... 2k is literally seen as balanced by the devs, so that's definitely not the argument you think it is. Also without any information on your opponents, we just have some anecdotal "evidence" that proves nothing. For all we know you are at the very bottom of the mmr going up against players who just installed the game for the first time.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745229#Comment_2745229
- When I say coordinated, I mean all 3 survivors have to be doing the exact same thing at the exact same time. That's extremely coordinated for a group of players. Almost all survivor I play with don't do that for BBQ, but instead elect to work on the gen, then after ~5 seconds, they walk away from the gen, this is a different tactic.
- The survivors aren't completely negating 2 different perks. In fact, if all 3 survivors are being perfectly coordinated, they are still losing 45 seconds every hook, so those perks are hard at work.
- Survivors won't know what perks the killer has. Do you expect survivors to just randomly start using a tactic to counter a specific perk setup without knowing the killer has that perk setup.
Finally, I'm not calling for a nerf of the new DMS. I'm predicting that DMS will be nerfed because of this tactic, before it is released from PTB. If it isn't, I'll be playing DMS all day on Freddy and even though Artist isn't one of my mains, I'm planning on playing DMS on her too. I have nothing invested in DMS being nerfed or not being nerfed. I kind of hope DMS gets out of PTB like it is so I can use it, just because I feel it's pretty broken on certain killers. However, I just couldn't imagine DMS getting out of PTB in it's current state or heck, maybe the Artist will be nerfed instead.
I expect a smart survivor to figure it out, just as they do with bbq now. If I'm working a gen, see someone get hooked and pop off only for the gen to be blocked, I know what's up. Luckily each survivor has to be hooked multiple times, so I can learn and do better at the next down. Same way I try and figure out if a killer has bbq now. (Didn't feel like I needed to explain that before as I know you are a versed player who's been playing long enough to know how to play the "what loadout does the killer have" game.
I'm sure it will be strong, but people are acting like it's going to single handedly win games, (see: thread title claiming somehow it's "unbeatable") and that's just not the case. At best it will change up the meta a bit, while barely denting the kill rates. (And I think we can all agree, the meta needs to be changed up, on both sides, just to keep the game from getting stale)
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@Dino7281 said:
Only issue to this is that if you died early, left and started new game, your MMR would change during new game, but I doubt MMR change from single game would affect matchmaking that much...
I wouldn't do it just based on number of escapes. Time of death is really important to this.
Most systems have a delay, say 8 hour lead time for data capture.
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@Gamerherz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745392#Comment_2745392
im Killer main with over 4K hrs and I always disliked noed, it always felt undeserved getting kills because of that perk. I want to work for it, which shows my skill but noed can just used by anyone. And when I played survivor and the killer did absolutely poorly because he was maybe lower mmr he still got 1/2 kills because of it. And that’s not really how it should be
@MikaKim said:
It's been a killer carry perk for killers that cant chase since release.
The devs have no interest in removing the cheap hits.
It's a beginner perk to help new killers learn the game and not just be genrushed out. At higher levels it's useless because it's easy to remove, and because a speed boost just isn't enough if you can't loop. Pretty much like Pig's traps, in that the first time you deal with it, it's stressful because it's new and unexpected, then you learn how to handle it and move on.
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@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745735#Comment_2745735
- 1. Yes, when it's revealed you have to play differently... And? How is that different from over a dozen other perks? At no point should you be able to "ignore him and keep playing" (assuming him is the killer).
As i explained SEVERAL TIMES, it is different because it is the only perk that
a) Force you to play differently and you can't ignore it
b) You always need to assume it is in play
c) You can't "git gud"
No other perk in the game have these 3 together.
You 2 always keep ignoring this, therefore you have no argument in contrast, simply you try to play dumb and fake you didn't read.
- 2. Veteran players and newbies can handle this perk easily. Simple strategy. Note the locations of totems as you go, after the 5th gen, if you see NOED activate, either check them and destroy the lit totem, or just open the gate and leave. Problem solved. If you wish to ensure it never activates at all, you can even do that by pre-breaking the totems so it can't spawn in. So that's 2 methods of dealing with it. With the new boon meta it's even easier, as a totem that has been booned doesn't turn into NOED.
This is NOT "handling it easily". You need to be in a cohordinated group, with precise perks and hoping it is not going to enlight the totem you never found.
This is a complicate and luck based strategy those streamers i said before weren't able often to cohordinate.
- 3. I usually use DS, DH, or BT for that example, went with COH because it's a totem perk, but still, my point stands. There is no survivor perk that the killer has the ability to remove from the match before or after it activates. There are an entire category of killer perks that survivors can remove from the match entirely, and 1 in particular they can remove before it ever activates, that's the balance right there.
Again, don't play dumb, all HEX perks can be removed, why now you tell me "there is no surv perk blah blah". If this point was valid then we have to remove every hex from the game.
Hexes are particular powerful perks for killers, should be compared with other hexes in order to understand IF they need more protection than usual.
Is Noed weaker than any other hex? No! It isn't! Hex like "crowd control" have a single shot, why NOES that is particularly powerful should have 5?
- 4. NOED isn't stronger than any of the perks you mentioned, especially since unlike all of those perks, you can remove it entirely from the match before it ever activates. People want to make it out to be the most dangerous perk ever, but there's a reason it's never once cracked the meta in 5 years. A small speed boost + exposed status, on a perk that can be removed at any time, including before you ever see the benefit, just isn't that strong a perk.
NOED IS METADEFINING! If you spend the game searching for all the totems and remembering the location it is pretty much influencing the whole game play! Man what are you saying?
Sure NOED is not breaking the meta! NOED IS PART OF THE META! The only reason it is not a staple on 50% of the killer is because it is embarassing for a skilled player relate on NOED everyone knows is a perk that allow you to obtain undeserved kills in the end even after the worst game.
Repeat, with NOED i was able to manage always 2 kills while practicing the nurse at rank 9 and not being able to blink. Spent the game missing the blink, in the end NOED activated, BAM! No brain, 2 kills!
"a) Force you to play differently and you can't ignore it"
Just like ruin, stbfl, devour, and bbq. All require you to change your playstyle. That doesn't make anything OP
"b) You always need to assume it is in play"
just like bbq, DS, DH, and BT
"c) You can't "git gud""
Of course you can, the perk doesn't automatically transport every survivor to a hook, it doesn't show your aura, you can still hide and run until you find and break the single totem.
"No other perk in the game have these 3 together".
Except bbq, DH, BT, UB...
You can say the same thing as many times if you want, but it's still incorrect.
"This is NOT "handling it easily". You need to be in a cohordinated group, with precise perks and hoping it is not going to enlight the totem you never found."
Personally I don't find that I need help counting to 5. With boon totems lighting up across the map and through walls, it's even easier. Each map only has about a dozen possible totem locations, you don't even need a perk or map (though both exist and can make it even easier for 1 person to find all 5 totems) I only play solo (though my wife is learning now, so that may change in future) and can't remember the last time I saw a killer get more than 1 hook from noed activating. Of course, perhaps that's a different story at your mmr
"Again, don't play dumb, all HEX perks can be removed, why now you tell me "there is no surv perk blah blah". If this point was valid then we have to remove every hex from the game."
Yes, that's why I said entire type of perk. Noed is unique even among hex perks because it's the only one that can be removed before it activates at all. Doesn't mean that we have to remove them, but we do have to account for how easy they are to remove.
"NOED IS PART OF THE META! The only reason it is not a staple on 50% of the killer is because it is embarassing for a skilled player relate on NOED everyone knows is a perk that allow you to obtain undeserved kills in the end even after the worst game."
So is it part of the meta or isn't it? If a large portion of players don't use it, it's not meta. That simple.
"with NOED i was able to manage always 2 kills while practicing the nurse at rank 9 and not being able to blink. Spent the game missing the blink, in the end NOED activated, BAM! No brain, 2 kills!"
And with doctor, using just his base perks and unrelenting, my wife was able to 4k while still trying to figure out which joystick turned the character... Does that mean her loadout was op? Or did she just run into a bad survivor team?
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I think Chucky on his own could work, as long as the voodoo aspects of his lore are used.
Imagine: Chucky gets you down, then you see him pull out a little doll that looks like you. You see your body get up and march to the hook, before being lifted and put on (could use some shadowy hand effect to make it look cool)
Or he could hop on your shoulders and make you walk to the hook by putting a knife at your neck.
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Survivor gets picked up.
Let go of gen.
Survivor gets hooked.
Wait for birds to fly by, then get back on gen.
DMS never triggered, pain resonance never triggered, all without even using a perk or item slot to do it.
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@Zolfo16 said:
- Do you have an argument for it being OP other than "you have to assume it may exist"? Because until perk loadouts are shown prior to every match, that's the case for quite a few perks, and really isn't that special.
Kinda yes. First it seem to me that the fact that you have always to assume his existance is a pretty strong point in favour of the strength of a perk, second yes, as i said before i have other two that are:
You can't ignore him and keep playing the same way when it is revealed.
You can't "git good" because also very veteran players with a lot of skill can't face this perk.
I said these points already 3 times, people keep ignoring them...
- There is literally no survivor perk that can be removed before it activates, and no other killer perk that works this way either. As removing an entire perk from the game is a major advantage, it should take a lot of work to accomplish. I know if I could light 5 totems to remove COH before it activated, I would be happy to do so, not complaining that it's too many totems, and that's from the killer side where the time crunch weighs heavier."
Man, telling me that also COH can't be removed therefore NOED is fair... is dumb. COH is a cancer. COH literally forces killers to tunnel you until you are down because otherwise in 8 seconds all the job done is wasted.
I think that, if they want to keep COH this way they should allow killers to stomp a boon forever.
In my PERSONAL OPINION strong perks that must be considered the top and therefore must work as measure of the maximum power for a perk are like DH, DS, BT, Ruin, Pop, Devour. If a perk is blatantly stronger than these monster that perk is TOO STRONG!
1. Yes, when it's revealed you have to play differently... And? How is that different from over a dozen other perks? At no point should you be able to "ignore him and keep playing" (assuming him is the killer).
2. Veteran players and newbies can handle this perk easily. Simple strategy. Note the locations of totems as you go, after the 5th gen, if you see NOED activate, either check them and destroy the lit totem, or just open the gate and leave. Problem solved. If you wish to ensure it never activates at all, you can even do that by pre-breaking the totems so it can't spawn in. So that's 2 methods of dealing with it. With the new boon meta it's even easier, as a totem that has been booned doesn't turn into NOED.
3. I usually use DS, DH, or BT for that example, went with COH because it's a totem perk, but still, my point stands. There is no survivor perk that the killer has the ability to remove from the match before or after it activates. There are an entire category of killer perks that survivors can remove from the match entirely, and 1 in particular they can remove before it ever activates, that's the balance right there.
4. NOED isn't stronger than any of the perks you mentioned, especially since unlike all of those perks, you can remove it entirely from the match before it ever activates. People want to make it out to be the most dangerous perk ever, but there's a reason it's never once cracked the meta in 5 years. A small speed boost + exposed status, on a perk that can be removed at any time, including before you ever see the benefit, just isn't that strong a perk.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729567#Comment_2729567
Maybe one day it'll catch up to the "Boo hoo, Dead Hard OP threads" XD
Until it hits the "NOED is op" numbers, it ain't nothing, lol
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@Zolfo16 said:
- "Yes, it IS perfectly normal, because that is, literally, how the perk works; you have to play around it, just like Dead Hard. Killers have to assume Survivors have Dead Hard or miss an attack, which can greatly extend chases."
THIS IS THE REASON WHY it is OP! If it wasn't intended to work that way either was bugged or the playerbase was exploiting some weakness of the perk like trickster with blood favor.
- "Don't ever balance based on 'streamers' and 'youtubers'."
If they are all players with 7k hours and undoubted skill YES YOU BALANCE ALSO WITH THAT! I don't know why you shouldn't!
- "What people whine about is NoED working as intended."
If every criticism is whine you are in fault, not them!
- "I don't CARE if someone is a Killer main or a Survivor main. I don't CARE what some dude with a webcam says; I've been the dude with a webcam. Having one did not make me smarter than everyone else."
If you do not care of ANY other opinion or data that is not supportive with you it is YOU issue, not our!
- "Them 'being worried' does not mean NoED is OP. It means they are aware it may exist. I don't recall Otz ever saying 'NoED is OP'. Because it's not."
He said twice in both videos where he analyze perks. He said is strong as #########, he put the perk in the higher ranks and said it is not fair to play with it and it leads to undeserved kills. JESUS! MORE THAN THIS??? Should Otz ring your door to tell in your face?
- Once again; you have given no actual points as to NoED being OP other than 'It should not do what it was made to do'.
It is easy when people spend 2 messages explaining you several reasons telling "no real point!".
You are not discussing my motivations and why they may be wrong, you simply said they are not important for reason you do not explained but you do not need to explain because you do not care about any other opinion.
This is not discussing, this is playing dumb with me.
NOED should be a credible threat yes but considering its power it should be solved removing 1 or 2 totems, like ruin, like devour, NOT FIVE! WHY FIVE? It's the only perk that requires the removal of all totems!
Do you have an argument for it being OP other than "you have to assume it may exist"? Because until perk loadouts are shown prior to every match, that's the case for quite a few perks, and really isn't that special.
Yes, you have to do 5 totems to stop it from activating at all, but only 1 or 2 to remove it if it is active. There is literally no survivor perk that can be removed before it activates, and no other killer perk that works this way either. As removing an entire perk from the game is a major advantage, it should take a lot of work to accomplish. I know if I could light 5 totems to remove COH before it activated, I would be happy to do so, not complaining that it's too many totems, and that's from the killer side where the time crunch weighs heavier.
If your argument is that Otzdvara says "don't use it, it's bad" then I can counter that argument by saying "Ohmwrecker uses it and says it's good". In English we call it an "Argument from authority fallacy", which is basically the idea that since 1 guy/gal says something, it must be true.
Fact is there are as many opinions as there are streamers, none of them have any special knowledge or authority, they're just people playing the same game.
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Is it that they are angry?
Or is it that you took them from 4 perks to 2-3, so now they feel they need to sweat to get the kills? Hex popped, already losing gens, can get into a mindset where it feels like the game is just about to be lost from under your fingertips.
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Practicing on killers breaking pallets is one of the best way to get practice in, people may complain, but that happens regardless.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744523#Comment_2744523
I didn' t see this reply. So I'm going to reply back to you. Why this is abusable is because survivors lose 45 seconds of time if they play everything perfectly and lose 2 minutes and 15 seconds if it goes wrong. A 45 second penalty for doing everything right is massive. (A survivor would need to find a locker after the killer picks up the survivor which is ~5 seconds at the least, ~5 to hide in the locker for BBQ and another ~5 to get back to the gen and start doing it again).
This is an amazing amount of coordination for 3 survivors to do while all the Artist has to do is stand in front of a survivor and shoot off crows. And even with this amazing amount of coordination, the team is losing 45 seconds of gen time.
And you have to also realize, the first time the Killer does this, no one is going to know to do this to begin with, so they're going to lose 2 minutes and 15 seconds.
1. What you are describing isn't coordination, it would be if one survivor had to open the door for another to hide. Each survivor doesn't have to coordinate, just act as they already do for bbq. As long as just 1 of the team hides, the survivors don't all fall victim to the tactic. They don't have to coordinate anything, just hop in a locker, something literally every survivor learns how to do during the tutorial
2. Absolute time invested would be misleading even if you had a source for your numbers, as the matches aren't timed, the calculation should be time spent vs advantage gained or lost. In this case it takes less than a minute for a survivor to completely negate 2 different killer perks at the same time without having to bring or equip anything different. That's a major advantage for the time taken. As a matter of fact I can't think of any other simple environmental interaction that can negate half of another player's perk loadout on either side.
3. Of course they'll know how to do it as A. They'll learn in the ptb and B. It's literally the same tactics already used for bbq.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744750#Comment_2744750
5 seconds if she's smart and fires one crow at a time.
If she fires 3 then you don't even need to bother and continue to work without risk for 12 seconds on the gen. By the time you have to let go for the second volley almost half of dms times is going to be gone.
Also you assume your gen is always the first one that's going to be hit. How long will you sit in a locker if she starts checking other gens first. You're still giving vallue to dms that way.
Honestly i think the best way to counter this is just to have the nearest survivor hookrush her when she is setting up her crows.
She still needs to be 10 meters away from the hook to use her crows and most of the time she has to look away.
I don't think a resque is going to be very hard. Especially is she just placed a crow and has to start chasing you with her crows on cooldown
I'd do it this way.
Teammate gets picked up, you hop in the locker, wait out bbq, if it's artist, give an extra second or so to hear the crows fly, then go back to the gen. If she comes after you, handle from there.
The reason I was framing it the way I was, was to give the killer every advantage to show that even then, the perk isn't that big a threat.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744436#Comment_2744436
What's to stop her from just shooting another crow 6 seconds later?
Also doesn't killer instinct still trigger inside lockers? It does for Legion atleast. If it does she knows your there
The 12 second cooldown.
Sure, if she gets it close enough to a locker, she'll know you're there. You won't be harried, so it will still take 2 crow shots to injure you, and DMS still wouldn't take effect, so I don't see how that's relevant. She'll have to come to the locker to do anything about that knowledge, which means she isn't camping (as was shown in the videos from the OP)
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That would be fun. It would also stop instances where you get the down in a room with a window and no hooks where you don't want to open the door.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744538#Comment_2744538
If I am literally not supposed to make assumptions, I won't. That includes not thinking about what the hell skin-color means. I will learn about you when talking to you.
Wait, do you believe that those are literally the only 2 options?
You didn't actually read the article I linked for you. You should, theroot.com also has some wonderful stuff that may help you. As for me, I've got to work at some point today.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744531#Comment_2744531
Population demographics and social/historical history?
So a history of white people assuming things about Detroit, and using it to somehow encapsulate black America, makes you believe you should have to make assumptions yourself?
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744526#Comment_2744526
"Yes. You absolutely should always take someone's history, including the history of their race relations to your race, into account when dealing with them."
So, what assumptions should I make about a black man in Detroit?
Why do you think taking history into account means you have to assume anything at all?
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744520#Comment_2744520
Isn't making assumptions about people based on external factors called implicit bias? Or stereotyping?
Yes, and slapping people at random is assault. Neither really had to do with what I had said.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744511#Comment_2744511
DMS requires to you get off a generator for it to activate, so going into a locker just plays into the Artists/DMS/BBQ combo.
DMS requires you to let go of the gen AFTER the hook in order to take effect.
The counter to bbq is going into the locker BEFORE the hook.
So no, no it really doesn't.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744495#Comment_2744495
So, we should interact with people differently in social situations based on skin-color?
I am NOT DENYING that racism is still a problem and exists and happens.
That is why I support the removal of this, because of the historical context of a white man wearing a black face and the currently easily associated connotations to Blackface.
However, it should be observed that the END GOAL is social blindness.
#########, I'm aware of my own hesitation when interacting with people of a different culture/race purely because they're different and I've basically been living in a monoculture my entire life.
And it's the understanding that I shouldn't have that reaction that I try to improve myself.
Yes. You absolutely should always take someone's history, including the history of their race relations to your race, into account when dealing with them. That's just showing empathy. If I talk to white or black people the same way I talk to my family, they'd both probably be offended, because of the way both races have dealt with each other and with mine. I've heard white people say ######### to each other that would never be kosher to say to a black person, and vice versa. Social awareness is taking everything you can into account.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744500#Comment_2744500
It's hard not to pick the right 3 gens since BBQ exists. (Which, btw, is part of the DMS combo)
Bbq, the perk than can be beaten by a locker, or just being on the opposite side of the gen from the killer? That bbq? Still not worried. I mean, don't get me wrong. Bbq is a good perk, but it has insanely easy counterplay that doesn't even require a perk or item
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744416#Comment_2744416
She can easily block all gens the survivors are working. If she blocks all 3 gens the survivors are working, that's 90 seconds of time lost. That's massive.
I'm not too worried about it, because it's got hotfix written all over it.
She can
if she picks the right 3 gens
if nobody let's go before the hook
if she gets the right side of each gen.
That's 3 ifs without even bringing up the map differences.
It also doesn't account for just going to the next gen that wasn't blocked because nobody was working it when the survivor was hooked.
I'm not worried because it's a very clearly niche situation where the stars will align well enough for DMS to do more than be a minor annoyance, and definitely doesn't do enough to change the killer meta.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2744474#Comment_2744474
The end-goal is "social blindness" of skin-color, disregarding biological statistics as that shouldn't matter in social discourse, rather only in matters of biological health.
However, while it's still a huge social aspect and people apparently can't make a distinction between biology and social discourse regarding skin color:
If Ed Geins, a white Child, was adopted by an abusive black Woman, and instead targeted black Women instead of white Women, is he racist?
First, some reading that will really help you.
Many sociologists argue that ideologies claiming not to see race risk ignoring discrimination.Secondly, you are again trying to fit an old square peg in a round hole, . (Considering the Atlanta Race Riot actually happened the same year Ed was born) as a matter of fact, it would have been illegal in most states for a black woman to have adopted a young Ed, which again, goes back to my point about trying to ignore reality, history and society when you make your arguments.
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@intrinsicobserver said:
I'm not normally the type to post on message boards but this debate caught my attention and I felt compelled to weigh in and ask some questions.
First, the definition of intrinsic is belonging naturally, or essential. Blackface was a medium by which racist stereotypes were spread to a wide audience. It was a powerful way of controlling a narrative that depicted a group in a negative way. Racism is inherent in the history of blackface. That's regardless of the intent on the behalf of a modern-day wearer. This makes racism is an intrinsic element of blackface. The act of a non-black person dawning a black face - using make up or not, I'm not sure the distinction truly matters except at a semantic level - is close enough to blackface as to be indistinguishable. I'm not sure what the argument is here.
Further, regardless of a personal stake in the mask, the developers saw their creation used in a way that hurt people and decided to take remedial action. That seems like the responsible thing to do. In doing this, they only blamed the people using the cosmetic for ill means. In reading about this, I haven't seen the developers call into question the motives of any other users. This seems incongruous with the backlash, where players seem to feel the need to proclaim themselves as not racist. If Behaviour didn't call you out specifically, no one called you a racist, and this argument seems irrelevant.
What I'm really interested in is why Behaviour taking a step they felt morally compelled to do to safeguard the playing experience of some of their players - regardless of the size of that audience - bother some so much? This is a game, it is designed to be enjoyable, and Behaviour seems like they're trying to keep it enjoyable and protect their brand image. Does this cosmetic contribute significantly enough to your gameplay experience that you should be able to keep it even though it can be used to torment others? If Behaviour is no longer comfortable with this cosmetic being available because it is being used to do harm to others, should they be forced to leave it in at the expense of their feelings even if just some members of the audience want it? And do you really feel that their moralistic decision should be up for the debate of the community if their work is being used to hurt people in a way they don't like, and they took what they felt was the best action they could to prevent others from being targeted? It doesn't mean they're telling anyone how to think or feel, but removing a tool to be used by some to hurt others.
@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739843#Comment_2739843
Don't handwave away my argument because you're too lazy to talk about it.
We are talking about a general archetype here: If a child was abused by a mother, and their mistreatment from their mother resulted in a mental structure leading them to killing women and wearing their faces, would you classify that as racism or a mental disability?
Using that archetype in a generic setting does allow for scenarios created in which it may overlap with a topic that has a heavy relation to racism, such as the perceived symbolism of blackface, and that is why I have no qualms with this change. However, calling Ed Geins, (and Leatherface) racist is incorrect.
The core issue here is blackface, and its negative impact on people, NOT LEATHERFACE OR ED GEINS.
Stop trying to convince people that Leatherface and Ed Geins are racists. (It really comes across as such)
Convince people that Blackface has a significant historical association with racism, and that while on an individual level, Ed Geins/Leatherface may not be racists, but how they are portrayed in media with the inclusion of an extremely similar cosmetic option to blackface in a widespread medium keeps a fresh reminder of that in people minds which doesn't help with moving on and overcoming those old connotations.
Top is what I think is the best comment here. Right under one of the worst.
But hey, let's talk about it. If Ed Gein was born to an abusive black woman, instead of an abusive white woman, would wearing black faces be racist?
You said people don't want to talk about it. I do, specifically I want to ask if you know how race works, or if you think white people are commonly born to black parents. Every argument I've seen you make here only makes sense in a void where society doesn't exist, but for this, you're also ignoring basic biology.
So to answer your question, no, if Ed Gein wasn't white, then it wouldn't be considered blackface to wear another non-white face.
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I guess this thread has taught me why people hate bbq so much. The counter for that and this is the same.
See your teammate picked up, hop in a locker. Wait for the hook, and the crows to fly, then come out of the locker and go back to your gen.
Voila. No blocked gen, no crows showing your position, and if she is camping the hook (as in the videos) then she's just handed you the win.
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@DouGG said:
So the new Dead Man's Switch perk now activates on any hook, not just the obsession. This will be a healthy buff for some of the weaker killers where it takes a significant time investment to force survivors off a generator, such as lower mobility killers who have to actually walk there to force them off it. What the devs seemingly forgot to remember was that there are killers who can force survivors off generators so easily that they can effectively lock the survivors out of ever getting the generators done fast enough to win.
(Literally) unbeatable artist strategy with new DMS:
- Get hook.
- Fire off 3 crows to gens.
- All active generators are blocked for nearly 45 seconds. If they don't let go to clear the birds just fire another one and they're injured as well as forced to let go.
- Use this time and the artist's strong anti-loop to get another down.
Then just repeat:
Hook just after DMS expires, then fire off 3 crows to gens again. All active generators are blocked again.
Some people below have been mentioning that you can just tank the first swarm. The artist can just stagger her birds and double bird, though, which means if you don't get off, you get injured and are forced off anyway.
This is literally unbeatable. Artist's 1v1 is so strong she can get hooks almost as fast as DMS's timer, sometimes faster, at any loop in the game. She can also force you to stop repairing generators from anywhere on the map, making that generator get blocked for 45s and making completing 5 gens literally impossible.
Devs, please address this on PTB or before live.
Couple issues with your math here.
First, she fires 3 crows, 4 with the right add-on, and there are 7 gens, so there's no way she's blocking all of them. Even in a 3 gen, she's going to have to pick the side of it a survivor is on, through a wall, without being able to see them. (Seriously one of the best counters to artist so far is just working the front or back of a gen instead of the sides, makes so many of these shots miss)
If she shoots 2 crows at the same gen (as you described) that only leaves her with 1 other gen she can try to hit. Then she has a cool down (and slow speed) to try and pick 1 survivor to capitalize on (while the others keep working)
So yeah, if you are 3 genned, and she hits every crow, and nobody is smart enough to let off the gen when they see their teammate picked up, she'll get to block all 3 for 30 seconds, while preserving their progress.
That's not really the same thing as being able to block all gens easily.
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Everything here is anecdotal, so let me add my own.
I play survivor drunk, I actually worked out a fun drinking game that I'm somewhat afraid to share because I don't want to be blamed when someone gets alcohol poisoning, lol. I'm screaming, jumping, making a right tit of myself and having a fantastic time doing it.
I play killer stone cold sober, trying my best just to make sure I don't leave the game with no kills.
I've been playing video games since consoles had wood paneling, I would say I am at least of average skill in both roles.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742849#Comment_2742849
I know some people who can’t go 4 seconds without getting into an argument.
Hey, I waited 6
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740741#Comment_2740741
Game got noticeably more toxic, lots more online shaming, lot less diversity in opinion, social media got plagued with so much more toxicity as well.
Not that I've seen. On killer I've had people tell me to kill myself for 5 years, nothing appreciably changed with trickster. On survivor side killers have gotten a bit sweatier, but that's on the balance, and has nothing to do with K pop stans.
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Might be a server lag thing, where you saw it as 99% of phase one, but on the server it saw you get pulled at 1% of phase 2. I know from personal experience that if the tentacle is coming down, even if you haven't hit the first skill check the game definitely sees it as phase 2
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741248#Comment_2741248
Bruh this has been sent so many times, these are for ALL ranks, even new baby players that just started (which is the majority of players in this game).
You know, that's not really the argument you think it is.
1. Of course it's all, that's how you get an average. Whatever arbitrary cutoff point where you think someone is "good enough" at the game for their stats to count doesn't matter, it's just gatekeeping. The entire point of game balance is to balance it for all players, not just red ranks (that don't even exist anymore)
2. At beginner levels this game is completely killer sided for 1 simple reason. Skill checks. They fail them, they get caught, they get downed because they can't loop or don't know what a specific killer even does. So if we removed those newbies, like you suggest the kill rate would drop across the board, literally proving the opposite of your point.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740315#Comment_2740315
I didn't claim both I said most don't game but it did attract a large amount of them...do you not know how many kpop stans there are? Like literal millions. And DBD attracted a large number of those millions. If the only argument you have is trying to use word play then please just sit down.
And the game suffered how, exactly? I was told to expect horrible things. Instead the forums are the exact same, the games are the exact same, nothing at all changed... So it seems like, just with every other time, it was a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. If this game did attract a large number of k pop stans, they appear to be the kind who enjoy quietly playing and supporting a game without being obnoxious, why wouldn't we want more of that?
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I mean, sure if that was my experience as killer, that would be great. Instead 9/10 times when I see streamers it means sweaty team incoming, if I play to farm I end up with 2 hooks and my buzz stomped flat.
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@onekingbee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740382#Comment_2740382
You're now my favorite comment so far tonight. Respect mate.
Taco Bell arrived, good luck with the fishing trip 🙂
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@onekingbee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740377#Comment_2740377
Yet here you are.......
High, bored and waiting for my taco bell, been a good night for you?