Arcturus
Arcturus
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A bunch of suggested changes that would be nice to see (not all of them I'm certain on):
Hag traps should not be able to be placed within 8m of a hooked survivor (yes I know this is a nerf to a bad killer but she needs buffs in general and that's a separate issue).
Doctor shock blasts should not cancel unhooks.
Bubba's chainsaw sweep, Legion's Feral Frenzy, and Oni's power should end when hitting a survivor with unhook protection (not including the extended time with Borrowed Time).
Bubba and Billy's chainsaw should have the overheat mechanic Billy used to have if they are revved too much in a 16m radius from the hooked survivor.
Deathslinger's harpoon should not be able to hit survivors with unhook protections (this is to avoid basement camping, where the Deathslinger can shoot the person off the hook so that the harpoon breaks their endurance stuck in the basement while they are still at the top of the stairs). Similarly, Houndmaster's dog should not be able to grab survivors with unhook protections, or should at least pause the timer to make it harder to wait out the timer.
Pyramid Head's and Dracula's m2 should be delayed within 10m or so of a hooked survivor and for 3 seconds after they are unhooked, similar to Henry. Unknown's UVX projectiles should similarly be delayed midair when reaching 4m from a hooked survivor and for 3 seconds after they are unhooked.
Wesker's bound and Jason's spike should not be able to both injure the unhooker and break the unhook protection endurance, one or the other.
Springtrap should not be able to get a guaranteed trade even from a range with a one-two combo on rescuing survivors using his fireaxe + grab combo, although I'm not entirely sure what to do about that one.
The Trickster's blades should do half progress on survivors within 6m of a hooked survivor and for 3 seconds afterwards.
Map mobility abilities across the board should be slowed when appearing within 12m of a hooked survivor and for 3s after they are unhooked. Vertical punishment should at the very least apply when the hooked survivor is in basement.
I'm just spitballing but these are the things I thought up in a few minutes, BHVR should be able to think of better solutions considering it's their literal job.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Idk, in my experience, genrushing is rarely something that is achieved intentionally. There are genrushing builds, which are their own topic regarding “toxicity”, but genrushing on its own is too vague a concept to be (or not be) described as toxic.
Tunnelling is a choice the killer makes, however. And regardless of the killer’s intentions with it, another player’s gonna be affected by that choice. Said effect is typically a boring match for at least 1 out of 5 players, likely more than that if the killer is succesful. That match may as well be called a waste of time for those players. That’s not a good thing, no matter how you slice it.
Whether it’s “toxic” hardly seems relevant. It just sucks to face. Simple as.
Yeah, it's pretty difficult to actually tell definitively when it is considered "genrushing". There are certainly genrush builds, but I think the survivors may only be considered definitively genrushing if they're all running builds like that, which I rarely see. Simply having 3 survivors on gens while 1 is in chase is not genrushing, that's literally just the survivors doing their objective. And it's not comparable to tunneling at 5 gens as the OP would suggest, as simply playing the game and not wasting all your time doing dull totems or staring at the floor is not the same as ruining someone's gameplay experience for the sake of being as efficient for the win as possible.
Personally I'd more see a survivor equivalent as bully squad builds and luck builds. Bully squad builds, while maybe not the most efficient to win, can ruin a killer's gameplay experience by spamming Head On, flashbang / flashlight saves with Background Player over and over, possibly even a bunch of Flip Flop + Power Struggles. In this play style there are a lot of things that can be unfun for the killer, although like I said I don't think it's the best way to win and it definitely can be punished. That's why I think the luck builds are much worse, because it can't really be punished. Creators like Otz have literally said "I don't know how this isn't cheating" because it's so unfair, and like tunneling at 5 gens it sacrifices one player's experience for maximum efficiency.
My opinion on the original post is this: Tunneling, slugging, and "genrushing" are not always toxic. Some members of the community might consider one thing tunneling or genrushing while others might not, some might consider something toxic and others might not. It really just depends on the situation.
- To me, tunneling at 5 gens is toxic, you can win without ruining that person's experience. Tunneling at 3 gens, especially if you have a couple hooks already, I might not even call it tunneling.
- To me, going into a game with the goal of winning by slugging the entire lobby (usually with a build made for that exact purpose) is toxic, as it ruins 4 people's experience when you can definitely win other ways. If you snowball in the middle of a game, whether you did not have time to hook, or just kept seeing survivors trying to pick their teammate up, and end up with the entire team on the ground, I think is completely fine. If you are able to snowball a game like that when you need to, without a build dedicated to slugging, I think that's more a testament that you have good game sense and know what opportunities you need to take.
- To me, running a solo genrush build isn't toxic, because although it makes gens go faster, it does not make nearly as big of a difference alone, and you're almost guaranteed to be chased and not be able to use your build at some points in the match. Going into a game with your sweaty 4 man SWF with all genrush builds is toxic, as it can be very consistent and effective and ruin the killers match in just a few minutes.
- To me, running luck builds in your SWF (because that's the only way it properly works) is toxic, because it again ruins the killer's experience for the sake of efficiency.
I don't think anything else (besides I guess tbagging and humping or something) is really "toxic." I'd say if something significantly impacts someone's gameplay experience and it feels like crap to go against, then it's something worth considering toxic. But I think many times we use blanket terms to cover both the toxicity and the fair play.
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As other people have said already, we'll hopefully see less bugs over time, but we might experience more when initially transitioning over. I've said this multiple times though that I hope they will be transparent about everything they are trying to tackle with this "rebuilding" of the game, like I really want to know that the net code is also being redone because it's in an awful state for a game in 2026
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I've seen some people comment that doing this, while it sounds good at first, makes it so there are very few good perks that work on Nurse. Things that require basic attacks already are not viable on her, as of now the only good perks available on her are aura reading and gen slowdown / regression. So a lot of people have argued that by nerfing Nurse's ability to see auras, you'll just end up with every Nurse running 4 gen slowdown perks (Pop, Pain Res, Eruption, Gift of Pain) which is arguably worse. Not sure exactly how much I agree with this sentiment, but it is worth taking into consideration.
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@TheArbiter said:
I feel like the only thing holding them back is a lot of people have arachnaphobia. Heck a lot of people can't handle Plague because of her vomit. Im sure a spider killer would also have a lot of technical hurdles with movement. All this to say it's not impossible but unlikely
They also have Clown in the game as well, and many people have coulrophobia too. I don't think DBD is necessarily super concerned about phobias, although I feel like it would be nice to implement options for phobias when possible similar to Grounded's arachnophobia option. That would be possible for a spider killer, or the clown, although I don't think it would be possible with the Plague.
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It needs a revamp or at least prices needed to change / the rate that we get iri shards needs to be increased, but I don't know if BHVR wants that. It keeps the grind which forces people to get back on longer if they want the stuff for free
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If you're looking to practice looping, then I'm assuming perhaps you want aids in chase that don't majorly change looping. The first ones that come to mind are Five Moves Ahead and Troubleshooter. It makes a good combo, as you'll be able to see all your resources, get a little bonus second of movement after dropping a pallet, and in that time that Five Moves Ahead is on cooldown it forces you to work without a Windows effect and learn how to loop without it. When you drop the pallet, you also get aura reading on the killer for a few seconds from Troubleshooter, so it's a nice combo.
Although it does change how you loop slightly, if you were to run an exhaustion perk you could also run Dramaturgy. It can kind of be used like old Dead Hard as a "mistake eraser" to give you a second chance in chase and give you more opportunities to practice.
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@ha_1403_ said:
I didn't know the company would adopt that, but I want to share my idea in detail, and I advise you to read the whole thing to understand what I mean.
Although we don't know the exact details, so we don't know how close the fine details will be to what you are proposing, this mode is being added next year, but I don't think it's competitive. But who knows, I might be wrong
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@ObsidianButterfly said:
Allow me to translate for the lay-people.
"Sadako is complete garbage 99% of the time because her power is laughably worthless and she has no chase ability, but the 1-2 maps where her power actually functions and she is an actual threat exposes my skill issue, so I'm going to complain about it and make it everyone else's problem."
Her design is precisely garbage because she is so bad most of the time and so powerful on certain maps. Like, I never said that Sadako needs a nerf or anything like that, I just said her design is terrible, which makes sense considering they had to change her like 3 times from how she originally was. If anything she needs a rework to be more consistently powerful.
I'm not sure how saying "skill issue" dismisses anything I said. It's apparently a "skill issue" that a killer can spam a power over and over and consistently progress you to your death so that you're forced to not do objectives all game or let yourself get killed early.
This is a forum for discussions, complaints, etc. I'm not "making it everyone else's problem," I'm literally using the forum for its intended purpose, stop being butthurt about it just because the killer I'm talking about is your profile picture. A little bias much? I can do the same thing right back and it would mean nothing: "the killer I like is being criticized by someone I don't know online in a place where people criticize the game the killer is in, and I don't like that so I'm going to make it his problem." That isn't discussing, that's just insulting and being rude.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105331#Comment_4105331
Its not ego they just want the kill its that simple is it ego that survivors want to 4 out. Also survivors get a big ego about getting hatch so slugging for the 4k stops that toxicity.
Actually, to respond to this a bit more, the reason you probably see so many survivors "getting a big ego about getting hatch", considering your posts, is probably because of how you play. For example, I almost never tbag, and the only time I ever do, if at all, is when the killer is playing in an extremely toxic way. AKA some mixture of hard tunneling at 5 gens, trying to slug the entire team with a build made for doing so, humping survivors on the ground, slapping survivors on hook, excessively slugging for the 4k, etc.
All your posts have showed a pure "us vs them" mentality, where there is absolutely no empathy for the other role. In my experience, people like that have the worst play styles, in which case even players like me who never tbag will probably do so to you. When I play killer, I still play to win, but I don't play like that, and I don't experience that much toxicity. If you want to stop experiencing toxicity, stop being toxic. It's just a cycle you're perpetuating.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105331#Comment_4105331
Its not ego they just want the kill its that simple is it ego that survivors want to 4 out. Also survivors get a big ego about getting hatch so slugging for the 4k stops that toxicity.
It quite literally doesn't. In fact it does the exact opposite. People who think in "us vs them" like you on the survivor side will experience a match with you or one of these other slugging for the 4k killers and then take it out on a bunch of other killers that are completely innocent.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105318#Comment_4105318
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105319#Comment_4105319
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105320#Comment_4105320
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105322#Comment_4105322
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105327#Comment_4105327
Sooooo the gist of what I'm seeing here is because one group of survivors were egomaniactics means that as killer you must now be egomaniactic as well to every other group of survivors even if they had nothing to do with it...did I sum this up correct cause I really only read the first two
I mean it's really the same "us vs them" mentality in all of them so pretty much. This thread wasn't even about killers, it was about killers who excessively slug for the 4k, but somehow I guess it just comes down to survivors are all terrible so they have to suffer.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105009#Comment_4105009
Why do survivor have such an ego why shoudl they be able to hold the killer hostage for 2 minutes. Whats wrong can survivors not handle being on the ground just tab out or go to the bathroom its what killers are told to do. Survivors get a massive ego about getting the hatch and alot of killers just dont want to deal with that as well alot of killer challenges need killers to kill so getting 4 killer vs 3 can be the difference between finishing the challenge and starting another or having to play another match before getting to do a different challenge. Survivors are such victims complaining about litteraly everything killers do and they still gi e up under hook repeatedly.
First of all, survivors have zero ability to "hold the killer hostage for 2 minutes." The killer is fully able to end the game at any point by pushing the survivors out. I understand if having to do that is frustrating because you have to see some goofballs tbagging, but you have the option as the killer to end the game at any time, survivors have no such option. Secondly, literally no one tells killers to "tab out or go to the bathroom." There have been others on this thread who have echoed similar sentiments as yours about how survivors should have to deal with it because killers do, and the response is always, again "you can push them out." There is a very clear solution to survivors sitting in exit gates: wait 2 minutes max or push them out. It might not be ideal, but it's very simple.
On survivor there is no solution, and there is no guaranteed timer. Theoretically there should be a max 4 minute timer for a survivor to bleed out, but the killer truly does have the power to take the game hostage if they want to, as they can just pick up the survivor to keep the game going until they eventually find the other survivor. The only thing the survivor bleeding out can do is tab out and do something else for an indefinite period of time, the same thing you claim is what killers are told to do. The other survivor has the choice between trying to hide and do nothing for an indefinite period of time or literally killing themselves, giving up on the mechanic the killer is manipulating to never come into play, and giving up on the almost 10k bloodpoints.
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Well hopefully we'll have access to things like this with the modding suite promised for next year
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@ForTheEntity said:
I think it's rather simple. The game doesn't tell killers that they won when they get a 3k so many killers go for 4ks so they think/feel like they've won or won more.
They don't realize what a colossal waste of time it is and how not fun it is for everyone involved.
I am surprised the slug in the 2v1 scenario doesn't have an abandon option by now as they don't have any agency and are practically being held hostage unless their teammate picks them up which often they (smartly) let the slug bleed out for a chance at the hatch.
Unfortunately even then the killer often doesn't let them bleed out in these scenarios, so even the built in timer can be worked around
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Because the gamemode was the most killer sided in DBD history. I've been playing the PTB so I haven't had the chance to hop on Lights Out yet, but the reason why survivors have gotten these changes is because they got absolutely nothing before. Also, you might see knocking a lantern out of the survivor's hand as a good thing for the survivor, but that means for half the chase the survivor is just like the previous iteration of Lights Out: completely lost. Now do I think the lanterns defeat the purpose of the mode? Yes. But do I also know there is a good reason they were added? Also yes.
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@MorelClaudette said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105221#Comment_4105221
Does make sense to some degree, but they could also disable the offerings for Haddonfield, so why not disable all offerings except those for extra bp?
If it is possible for map offerings that aren't usable any more, than it should not be that much effort no?
yeah I have no idea, the only thing I can say is that in that case they disabled the offering for the whole game, didn't matter which gamemode. Maybe it's slightly different when trying to apply that only to a certain gamemode
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I guess to prevent the other offerings from being used they just disabled offerings as a whole. The other offerings shouldn't be usable, but yeah you should be able to use cakes / bps. Too much effort I guess
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105149#Comment_4105149
My hot take is that the basekit mori was one of the worst changes to the overall vibe of the game in recent history. It was way better when they were a rare surprise and not a period at the end of the match that people feel entitled to. And there's more and more mini moris making things worse.
Honestly I agree. Not only can you argue that the final mori incentivizes slugging excessively for the 4k, not only can you argue that built-in mini moris make tunneling easier, but it also just desensitizes people to moris. Like, how many times have I watched this mori now. Even if I thought the mori was cool when the killer was released, I've seen it so many times now it's no wonder why survivors abandon in the middle of the mori if they have the option
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105139#Comment_4105139
Alot of the playstyle is actually quite different between the various killers, but ppl like to oversimplify things. Jason's stealth...isn't much of stealth but rather just mobility. That would be like comparing Xeno WHILE hes in his tunnels or Springtrap WHILE hes in his doors. Jason is never gonna get surprise gen grabs unless he brings perks or addons that grant stealth. His gameplay is much more aggressive. Springtrap actually has more room for stealth plays since you get a decent amount of undetectable after you cross the map. A play I would recommend is dont go to the door you know a survivor is by if you wanna make a stealth play, but try a door nearby.
Theres also a key point to make about the speeds. Jason is a 4.4 killer that is granted haste to get 4.6 speeds, while Springtrap toggles back and forth 4.4 and 4.6 without haste. If were talking about basekit alone, there's no real difference. There IS difference though when we bring sources of haste into play. If you run batteries included for example on both killers, itll result in a bigger boost for Springtrap. Your getting a 5% boost on 4.4 on Jason as opposed to 5% on 4.6 .This is then stacked on Jason's diminishing returns.
Im not gonna pick it apart any more, just wanted to really showcase... these 2 have there own strengths and weaknesses that SHOULD affect how you approach their gameplay. If you're trying to play them the same exact way, you're missing out.
Jason may not be able to get grabs like Springtrap, but grabs off of generators become less and less common as you go up in MMR, as that's only common with new survivor's that aren't very aware (especially because Springtrap's footsteps are so loud). Jason gives no warning of where he is in OE (unless he moves the grass, but honestly it moves so fast that it doesn't give you much extra time for distance) which makes it infinitely easier to close distance with survivors off rip. With Springtrap, either you come out of a door next to them, which gives them warning so they usually are able to get quite a bit of distance, or you come out of one further away, not only wasting precious time that Jason doesn't have to, but often times there aren't enough obsticles to block you from view and the survivors are able to take distance anyways, or at the very least, again, his footsteps are so loud that the survivors can hear him coming. With Xeno, its even more of a weakness and even harder to miss, as the turrets give a constant measure of how close the killer is, making stealth almost useless and giving lots of warning to survivors.
Jason may not have "stealth" in that he can silently creep up on you until he's breathing down your neck, but he has "stealth" in that he goes completely invisible, making it almost impossible to know he's coming until he appears behind you. Jason goes invisible and can appear in so many places across the map he could basically appear anywhere, so I would still somewhat consider this a stealth ability. Both Springtrap and Xenomorph have 7 distinct places that they can pop out of, so their map mobility ability is not a stealth ability.
I will give you the haste, as obviously because of Diminished Returns, unless BHVR changes it so that it does not effect killer powers in the upcoming perk patch, Jason can't effectively utilize haste perks. However, I don't really see this as a huge downside. Yeah, Springtrap or Huntress would be a bit stronger in chase with Batteries because they could go 4.6 while using projectiles, but Jason essentially gets the same amount of haste on demand from the beginning of the game for free. If Jason could use Batteries on top of that to get, for example, the 5% haste from Batteries as a 4.6 killer with a projectile, could you imagine how incredibly powerful that would be? Just to get the same level of haste, Springtrap or Huntress would have to run Batteries when Jason does not, and then they would be effected by Diminished Returns the same as Jason so more perks would have the same issue as he does. The only difference is that Jason does not have to use a perk slot for the same effect. So in the end, I don't really see that as a weakness.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104988#Comment_4104988
Part of that is the tick rate btw. DBD servers have a tick rate of 20. Whereas say valorant is 120.
actually when I look it up online it says it used to be 30 but got updated to 60
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104988#Comment_4104988
Part of that is the tick rate btw. DBD servers have a tick rate of 20. Whereas say valorant is 120.
Oh my god I didn't even know that. Isn't the standard 60??? That's ridiculous
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/470687/why-do-killers-slug-for-the-4k-so-much
I think a lot of this can be blamed on the basekit mori.
I mean a lot of killers will sweat the 4k no matter what, but the last kill giving a mori just incentivises them more.
I have to admit, I will absolutely slug to secure the kill on the toxic tea bagger super looper torch clicker who's been winding me up all match. But as a rule I'll give hatch to the slugged survivor afterwards (if they don't dc/bleed out and weren't also mad toxic)
Yeah I think it might be the case as well, just like how the basekit mini moris we see with Jason and such makes it easier to tunnel. Honestly thinking about it, that's something I'm worried about with the new killer as well.
But playing that way is totally fair, especially if you give the slug hatch even though you're not obligated to. I might even do the same thing. I just know that a lot of killers don't care if the last survivor is toxic or not and will do it anyways. I've been the 4th survivor many times, and unless the killer has already been humping me on the ground or has been playing in the most toxic, boring ways possible all game, I never tbag, and even then it's rare. I don't even run any super frustrating builds, I usually just run a feel good build that does a bit of everything.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104917#Comment_4104917
well abandoned was added to deal with toxic 4 man slugging and with the same logic of "push survivors out" survivors can just bring unbreakable, conviction ect
what killer and how far are these people from the exit gate because if they're tbagging they' get hit and fall out of the trial that's why they do it unless your using blood warden every gane or something
Pushing survivors out is something that can be done no matter the game, the survivors, or the killer. Only being able to do something about slugfests if you bring certain perks before the game has even started is not the same. That would be like if killers weren't able to push survivors out and telling them to just run Bloodwarden.
As for your question, a lot of the survivors that love to tbag endlessly at exit gates are cocky and stupid sometimes, and there are a decent amount of killers and addons to punish that (which is why there are so many compilations of "this is why survivors need to just leave"). Basekit, obviously there's Deathslinger. If you shoot an injured survivor, you can just drag them out, and if you have Iri Coin it doesn't even matter if they're healed. As for addons, Knight has one to block the exit gate for someone spotted by a guard, Springtrap has one that not only keeps the survivor with an axe embedded in them in the exit gate, but everybody else in a 12m area (which is hilarious). Jason basekit can pin an injured survivor, and has an addon that prevents a spiked survivor from leaving (although if the other teammates are actually smart enough it's heal techable).
I'm definitely missing a few, I think Freddy has something similar as well, but even if all else fails, sometimes these survivors will be dumb enough to let you down them at the gate to get a few extra bags in, and I sometimes those survivors are too dumb to emote to prevent backflipping, in which case I'm able to hit them once, then lunge around and hit them from the side as into the map as I can, and it can put them into a position where I can pick them up. Even if they manage to salvage the situation, it puts them in line somewhat. Although from the beginning, I have not experienced survivors staying for minutes to tbag nearly as often as say a killer slugging excessively for the 4k.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
I mean it would essentially be a big creaking and clanking version of ghostface with ranged attack instead of stalking. Sounds okay in my book, especially because springy could be "broken out" of undetectable with cameras.
Why do you think it would be too strong?
As of now from what I can see most people in the community find Springtrap to be a pretty balanced killer, I usually see him on the higher end of B on tier lists where he is strong but not too strong. There are some small buffs that would honestly just make him more pleasant to play that they could do, but I'd be concerned that something as major as permanent Undetectable (even if with counterplay) may send him too high. I do like that it forces survivors to use cameras though, although honestly one thing I'm often able to do that survivors don't expect is that when someone is trying to reveal me, sometimes I abandon chase to go through the door next to me and a I get a free grab, so it can be punished as well.
Personally, I like a mix of @MarbleThrone's idea and an idea I saw a while back for Springtrap about the power outage. Currently, the power on the cameras/doors just disables them for survivors for, what, like 45s and that's all that happens? The user I'm thinking of proposed that battery is used less by survivors interacting with them (I think it should be like half as much), but instead of constantly recharging (so the battery almost never runs out), it doesn't recharge and also very slowly drains over time (so that if the survivors ignore doors, the power would still go out maybe twice a game on average). When the power goes out, that's when Springtrap can go Undetectable for maybe a minute and then the power comes back on (and the battery would be full unlike now where it recharges to half). The user also suggested some kind of filter similar to (although not nearly as dark as) Dredge's nightfall in this time period, and similarly to Dredge you could have his interactions with doors be faster, which would be pretty cool (although poor Dredge needs his own changes too). You could use the power out sounds from the game, and if you really wanted to up the atmosphere you could even play Freddy's lullaby in this time.
I do think that survivors should be incentivized to utilize the doors more in some way, but I think having him Undetectable by default might be a bit much considering that he already is in a pretty good spot and it would not only allow him to sneak up on survivors and have no red stain more often, but if the survivors are required to break him out of it it almost acts as a bit of a passive slowdown. I think something like the above would be a smaller buff that also adds atmosphere to the killer.
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@LordGlint said:
2 things...
A. Unknown was the first ranged killer with a map mobility skill
B. Have you played Jason much?
I didn't think of Unknown so that's my bad, although their map mobility abilities are extremely different from one another. I haven't played Jason a ton but I did play him for the adept and for some archives that suited him
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Funnily enough I made a very similar post the same day as you if you want to check out the discussion there, a lot of the same talking points have been hit
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@MarbleThrone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105027#Comment_4105027
Permanent Undetectable, but every time he's revealed by a camera he gets a 32-meter Terror Radius for 60 seconds.
Honestly sounds fun as part of a game mode, but probably too powerful in practice lmao
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Bloodhound, Shattered Hope, Beast of Prey, Distressing.
Nit comb + Dull Bracelet or Spasmodic Breath, both sound pretty awful
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@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105030#Comment_4105030
I believe jason to be perfect in terms of basekit. His issues lie in his power interaction with totems/totem cleansing and two distinctly strong addons that did not get changed yet: Coffee and Badge.
A certain content creator really thought an infinite winstreak with a busted totem build would be a good idea and now everyones going after his basekit, i'm sadge. :(
Yeah I'm not sure exactly how powerful coffee is, but the addon design BHVR has been doing a lot where it basically gives the killer a 5th perk like Badge feels horrendous. Speaking of Springtrap, Bonnie's Guitar was a huge issue on release, giving you permanent Hivemind in doors with no downside. Now it gives you the downside of losing the Undetectable out of doors, but even then some people argue that it kind of just tramples over all his other addons. Personally I still think his basekit is bloated, but I don't even know how I think they could fix that. But for sure Badge needs to be reworked or have some kind of downside
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@Bloodraven said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105031#Comment_4105031
Its 2026, i'd say the devs could make it look a little more flashy than a bleed out but I wouldn't have it so the killer teleports to mori, that'd be a bit goofy.
But this way it puts the onus in the survivors hands, do I give the killer this kill or do I make them wait potentially losing the kill due to bleed out.I actually think this would be a good idea to keep adept players in mind, although honestly adepts should also just require 3 kills which the community has asked for for years
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@cogsturning said:
I agree that Springtrap is one of the more balanced and fun killers. I honestly don't know why they thought releasing an all in one killer who power creeps half the roster like Jason does was a good idea. I don't even know how you fix it. Even if you give things cooldowns or reductions he still has too much going on and, like you said, no real identity.
Yeah I mean if I had to categorize him I'd still say he's a ranged killer, but he has a little bit of half the roster's powers so I wouldn't really know how to change him either. Makes me wonder if it's just because BHVR is running out of ideas, but then I immediately discard that idea because the new community killer is incredibly unique
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@Bloodraven said:
Rather than a bleed out mechanic i'd propose something more like this:
When two survivors remain, any one survivor who is left in the dying state for longer than 1 minute can self mori, this will not be classed as a bleed out but an actual kill.
Reasoning for that is a Killer shouldn't have their adepts ruined by a game mechanic.
I get the intention, but how would that work exactly? Would the killer like teleport over to the mori? Or would they just bleed out and the game would count it as a mori
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@Angy_Quentin said:
Springtrap needs...more. Maybe an addon overhaul as well as some much needed buffs to his stealth requiring survivors to use cameras could be the kick he needs to match jasons power.
While I do think there are a couple slight tweaks Springtrap could use to make him feel better to play, I think for the most part he's alright, and most of his addons are actually decent (besides a few), a couple are actually pretty fun and useful at the same time rather than just adding a bit of power. I personally think the focus should more be on Jason's bloated kit because right now I think his power level is a bit above where it should be, but that's just my opinion
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yeah, it is baffling how much Jason has in his Kit. And it is also baffling how often you think to yourself that you can also play Jason instead of the Killer you are currently playing.
I played Huntress the other day after a long time, simply because I like her. And while I had a good game and lots of fun, I was always thinking that I could also just play Jason and have a way better version than Huntress. And this applies to a bunch of Killers.
And up to this day I dont even know why they thought they need to bloat up his Kit. It is Jason, after all, it would have sold anyway. Maybe they felt the need to make him a strong Killer so that a Horror Icon is not weak. Who knows.
Yeah idk, I get that feeling when playing Springtrap a lot. Even though I find him a lot more fun, part of me is just like why am I playing the objectively weaker version when I could just play the stronger version? There are very few things other ranged killers do better than him. At this point, the only thing Huntress really has over him is that she carries 7 hatchets, but she still has to stop at a locker and reload, which you can't really do midchase (then again, Huntress also needs a bit of buffing in modern DBD)
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@Bloodraven said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104997#Comment_4104997
Nothing, but that doesn't answer the question does it? Why? Why should a killer HAVE to do it?
I personally disagree that having the choice between pushing survivors out in 10 seconds while watching them tbag and waiting max 2 minutes for the game to end is nearly the same as having the "choice" of being stuck in a game with a slugging for the 4k killer for up to 10 minutes depending on how they play and getting yourself killed / eating a DC penalty and losing all your bp. At least the survivor on the ground will be able to abandon after a few minutes sat on the ground, but the other survivor has no such thing.
But even if you still think these are equal, the other difference is that the problem I posted on has clear solutions. People have numerous times suggested that in a 2v1, a survivor left bleeding out for a certain amount of time should be able to bleed themselves out quicker. Then it's done, then the survivors actually have the power to do something. Survivors at the exit gate already put a 2 minute timer on themselves, this would allow survivors to put a timer on the killer. If you really wanted to shorten that max 2 minutes further, maybe at some point BHVR could implement the collapse speeding up when all living survivors are in the exit gates or escaped, although that would have to have the caveat of not happening while the killer is nearby as it could end up killing survivors in a last second escape when they would get out otherwise.
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@Bloodraven said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104971#Comment_4104971
Ahh yes the classic "the killer gotta take the abuse, just suck it it up".
Nope, if the killer has to get BM'd when they lose then the survivors can get the same, dont like being slugged? Just Tab out and watch YouTube then.
There, matched energy for energy and everything is balanced once more.
I think the sentiment was the opposite, that if you don't like the t-bagging at least you're able to stop it and move on to the next game. Tabbing out and watching YouTube is not the same at all. You have no power to stop it or move on, you just have to wait and take it up the rear until you can abandon, you bleed out, or everyone else gets killed, which could be anywhere between a couple minutes and potentially a game's worth of time. And your suggestion is to just not play the game and watch YouTube instead in that period of time. I don't think that's exactly a solution or balanced if you're going to compare the two
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@oreoslurpee said:
not someone from the team, but i will say that it’s probably at least slightly guaranteed that the graphics options will be overhauled in 2027. since 2027 is the set year for dbd’s graphic & code overhaul, there’s definitely a high chance we’ll be able to get more FPS options and other stuff.
also a pretty big chance they’ll pull a classic dbd move and just flat out ignore the settings as a whole
I really wish they would clarify on which things the overhaul will include. Like I seriously hope the net code will be redone because it's absolutely horrendous. And having the option to change different graphic settings individually (like shadows, textures, etc) would be so nice. A modern version of FSR and DLSS would be so easy to implement as well, right now the FSR we have seems to do nothing at all. I hope they give us some insight into what will and won't be changed. I would rather wait longer for them to rebuild the entire game from ground up if it means we won't have 100 new bugs every patch and interactions will actually look accurate to how they're supposed to be
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104870#Comment_4104870
While you are technically correct, you have the point wrong. If you lookup the concept of "peekers advantage" in an fps like cs for example, you'll understand. By definition, just literally how networking works in general, the aggressor has the advantage. But in a game like DBD where only 1 side can actually be the aggressor it makes it feel like its "favoring 1 side" but that is just purely due to how online networking in multiplayer games functions in general and not due to the game itself favoring one side or the other. You can't really change that.
No, I know what your talking about because I've played pvp fps games a lot as well, and that does come into play somewhat in DBD, but it's mostly the net code. No other pvp game I've ever played is nearly as ping dependent as DBD. Besides a couple interactions like grabs and pallet stuns, it is based off of the killer's POV / connection. That's why when you're playing on normal ping as survivor against a super high ping killer, they can hit you from miles away: on your screen they're miles away, but the server prioritizes the killer's interactions and on the killer's screen they're right behind you, and when they hit you you suddenly teleport 5 meters further on the ground. I'm probably doing a bad job explaining it but I had the system explained to me and it's seriously bad
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
Honestly, the other two guys where 100% more interesting then her. Especially the ginger guy.
I feel like we have plenty of Women In the game that already look like her.
She seems basic, and basic isn't bad. Just boring.
Honestly have to agree. The blue haired girl just kind of felt like another Michaela / Sable vibe. I'm happy with the survivor we got, but I think the grizzled guy with the big beard also felt unique.
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I also took a break for a while, starting right after Shoulder was introduced and I've just come back in the last couple months. I am a survivor main so you can take my words however you want, but I've been playing a lot more killer lately and haven't had any issues. There have only been a couple of times that I have experienced multiple Shoulders in one game, and in my experience a good number of killers can take advantage of the exposed or, if you realize it will just keep happening, it's one of the rare moments I will camp a hook, even if partially. This might be due to me being able to win most games with my first kill at 7 hooks or more though, so I don't usually encounter the issue since pretty much everyone is hooked at least once.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104879#Comment_4104879
1 you won't get a free kill unless you play very specific killers with very specific add-ons and 2 with that logiv qbandon shouldn't exist and survivors should learn how to use unbreakable
there have been many times with a normal m1 that ive been able to down a survivor to the side or backwards so that i can pick them up. some of the killers youre talking about dont even necessarily need any addons to catch these survivors off guard.
im not entirely sure what my comment has to do with the abandon feature or unbreakable. like, if you want to say that the killer should be able to abandon in endgame collapse then id agree. otherwise i have no clue what you're talking about, or how unbreakable is even remotely related
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104890#Comment_4104890
It's not a double standard. The sides aren't equal. The killer has more control over the clock than survivors. If the killer slugs for the 4k they can wait until right before the bleedout, pick up, and let the person break free and keep dragging out the match. It's even worse when it's a bot. At the gates, the survivors can either leave when the killer hits them or die. There's also end game collapse.
I also never said anyone shouldn't waste anyone else's time. Time isn't my issue, it's behavior. The problem is people use some random person's actions in a match to act out in a different match. Survivors aren't a hive mind. When everyone is safe, I leave. I never linger. Doesn't stop killers from humping me or hitting me on hook because someone tbagged them once. I'd honestly rather people say "I don't care how other people feel or how much of their time I waste" than run with these goofy excuses.
And yeah you better believe if you slug me for the 4k I'm going to crawl away and try to bleedout, since bleedouts don't count as kills. And the only thing I have the power to do in that situation is rob you of your kill.
yeah, the reason why a 3rd survivor who is slugged for a prolonged period of time will crawl so far is either to have a chance at hatch themselves or to rob the killer of a kill because it's the only thing they can do. it's just another case of "why won't survivors just let me kill them"
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104297#Comment_4104297
Both are bad and annoying. Getting slugged as survivor for the 4k is objectively worse from an enjoyment perspective though.
A killer can force them out of the gate allowing them to start a new match. Usually they don't even have to look at the survivors if they don't want to. Survivors sticking around to t-bag at the gates is super annoying but the killer still has agency and control over it.
A survivor is just stuck in the match until the killer either finds the other survivor or they bleed out over 4 minutes. The survivors has little to no control over it and just has to wait it out in a game that is already over and decided.
Granted there are valid reasons for slugging for the 4k, like if you see the other survivor or are doing an adept or some other achievement. In these scenarios I have no issue with the killer slugging for the 4k, and would say by far survivors sitting at the gate waiting to t-bag are worse by comparison. But many killers slug for the 4k just so they can say they won harder, while making it miserable for survivors.
So outside of a few scenarios I'd say slugging for the 4k is much worse. Which is why so much discussion seems to revolve around fixing the 4k slug issue and not the gate t-bag issue.
This is pretty much the exact thing I said on my post about this exact issue. The killer has the power to change it, the survivor does not. In addition, even assuming the killer lets the 3rd survivor bleed out and doesn't waste more time by picking them up to prolong the game, and even assuming that the survivors are standing at the exit gate t-bagging from the very beginning of the endgame collapse, the survivor will be bleeding out for up to 4 minutes while the survivors are t-bagging for at most 2 minutes.
The bleed out timer, again, can be extended repeatedly by picking up the survivor to keep looking for the other one. The most survivors at an exit gate can do is plot twist or something to slow down the timer, which I've never seen.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104655#Comment_4104655
you either do that or wait for the egc timer to go down i think it lasts 2 min
you can just push them out, and often times they'll be stupid enough to give you a free kill
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Unfortunately wouldn't be as much of an issue if their server's didn't disconnect so often
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I empathize with you as a survivor main that's probably played more killer chaos shuffle because of the rampant tunneling, but that wouldn't fix anything. The people who do that don't necessarily want bloodpoints, they would actually get more if they played normally. Tunneling is a complicated issue that requires both punishment for doing so and reward for not doing so in-match, and the tricky part is trying to make sure it doesn't affect killers that aren't actually tunneling, or killer's who are halfway through a match struggling really hard.
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Personally, Dracula is already top 5 killers in the game and I think that warrants a nerf, even if slightly. Out of the top 5 killers, I have the least problem with Dracula, and have suggested getting rid of haste from scent orbs every time. It's a slight nerf, but I still think it would make a difference. It would also encourage some of the Drac players that just use wolf form to actually use vampire form. I don't think he needs to be 4.4 with scent orbs making him 4.6 though, I remember people thought that felt pretty bad, and I also think getting haste for a few seconds, then not, then getting haste for a few seconds is just clunky and it also makes it difficult for survivors to gauge distance.
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I think the problem is more so the net code. The net code inherently favors the killer in almost all interactions, which is why you'll get sniped from 10 meters away by an m1. I have never played any other multiplayer game that I could feel my ping as much in as this one. What's worse is that it makes switching to killer frustrating because sometimes when I don't get a hit I think it's BS, but that's because that's what it's supposed to look like. It just makes me realize how much I've been getting robbed, especially because BHVR decided to put 2 servers on each cost of North America and not a single one in the middle so I'm stuck on 60-90ms
