AnnoyingNarrator
AnnoyingNarrator
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Just for the sake of an example
Name of the killer: Electro Spirit (Doctor, Spirt, Feng Min)
Power of the killer: Haunting Spark - Killer can use a ranged shock attack to increase the madness of survivors. The further the survivors descent into madness, the faster the Electro Spirit recovers her second power, Lighting Lunge. Lighting Lunge has the killer move in a burst of speed for a short second, but they can't see any scratch marks or the survivors themselves when this happens. When Lighting Lunging, the killer can leap through windows at incredible speeds.
Lore of the killer: All she wanted was to be the best, finding new ways to break the game to get an advantage. This made her one of the best players in the game, but also one of the most despised. One day, a rival broke into her house and stabbed her, sneaking out undetected. Confident that no one would find out, they slept well knowing that one of their greatest competitors was out of the picture. The next day, the rival was found dead, electrocuted with shards of metal jabbed in their eye.
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Huntress has no good perks
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@QwQw said:
You do the hookie pookie and change your strat around.
"And that's what it is all about"
"Nerf it again!"
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@bkn said:
I don´t care too much about perk changes, as long as they don´t touch insidious... Perks are replacable. There will be new stuff you can come up with.
I guess the only real problem this game suffers from in terms of gameplay is the power of voice comm.
On the one hand you have killers asking for more powerful stuff to stand a chance against it. On the other hand you have solos that can´t deal with stronger killers.
As long as this problem never gets adressed there will be an endless circle of changes that never leads anywhere but frustration.
Maybe just stop playing to win, and start to have fun? Use meme builds and stop trying to sweat. This game is not balanced, and never will be.
And if you really want to win at all costs, become a good Nurse and you will be fine.
I am of the opinion that a player should not have to choose between fun or victory. I actually prefer to run meme builds, but I am grinding out survivor perks right now so I have to use a build to get some blood points.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1860573#Comment_1860573
So...
Spirit is completely invisible while phasing, can move at incredible speed, has an increased lunge upon exiting phasing, but it’s limited in total time it can be active, and has a recharge/cooldown.
Wraith can remain invisible at will, closing when to exit his ability, will now be completely invisible except for the new ranges, has increased lunge upon exiting cloaking, but his faster movement speed while cloaked is significantly slower than Spirit.
If Wraith also now got increased base m/s while cloaked, there’d be very little distinction between Wraith and Spirit. It just would fall down to a choice between whether or not the killer wants to be able to see survivors whilst they can also be seen (while close), or not seeing the survivors whilst they also cannot see you at all.
They would be similar, but still very different. Wraith is better at harassing because his invisibility is on-demand, while Spirit is better in chases because her ability is unpredictable.
I would be like Hillbilly and Oni. They are very similar, but the two have enough differences to separate them. I don't see how the two would be too similar
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They are bad, as they can only really slug and camp.
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Ghost Face, Oni, Or Trapper
Ghost Face for the jumpscares
Oni because nothing is worse than running in a chase and then realizing he popped blood fury
Trapper, because getting your leg snapped is the worst.
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@Volcz said:
Things like:
- teammates going down instantly, as soon as the match starts, give or take a few seconds
- running killer for a long time, finally gets you and puts you on hook, only for you to realize not 1 of your teammates is doing anything other than slow walking or running around
- ' only for you to realize 2 of your mates are hiding in lockers while the other one is being chased
- reacting incredibly slowly to situations, for example saving someone on hook while killer is distracted w/ another chase, or healing someone up whose still in the dying state but was left there b/c killer got distracted w/ someone else
- teammates being blind to whats around them (like ghostface, jigsaw, or myers, who then proceed to get easy kills)
- not healing after safely unhooking
The matchmaking system is just really bad. I've been paired with r7,8,9 all the way to 18s when I'm a rank1 survivor. Getting to the scoreboard and realizing 'oh this makes so much more sense now' sucks when you did 3 gens, cleansed 2 hexes, safely unhooked x3 and still couldn't win b/c of bad survivor teammates. I really wish there was an MMR, so people could get punished more, and be in their appropriate games. Sadly I don't think that will ever come b/c these devs don't seem to care. If they haven't added it by now, fat chance they do so anytime soon.
God, I felt that in my soul. Especially the two locker mates. That is the worst.
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@Sluzzy said:
This is mostly due to survivor being very much harder than killer. If a survivor is not very experienced or confident, they have to resort to being stealthy to avoid the killer. A killer doesn't have this to worry about, they have perks to help slow the game down and tracking perks.
I am going to disagree with this one. This is less of a "killer is easier than survivor" problem and more of a "The Tutorial is bad" problem. If a survivor fails to realize how the game should be played, that is not on the killer balance, but on the tutorial for not teaching the survivors how to play.
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@CheyeneKL said:
HELL no. It's a cool idea but utterly too killer favored. Sure, hemorrhage is a fairly useless status effect (unless you often rely on tracking blood, which of course comes in handy to every killer once in a while). But changing it in this manner would make many killer perk+add on builds absolutley oppressive for less experienced players. Good luck to the mid level players who can't finish heals because the killer has sloppy+nurse's+BBQ!
There are way too many perks and add ons that give the hemorrhage effect for it to be a reasonable change. If hemorrhage got changed this way, medkits would have to be incredibly buffed to not be rendered nearly obsolete (due to the fact that it is very common to get interrupted during a heal). Which would then screw killers over who DIDN'T have a hemorrhage effect giving perk/add on equipped.
If anything, I think it would be a cool hex perk. Not even a normal perk, a HEX perk. You'd otherwise have to give survivors a sort of base self care ability.
Also, I guarantee that if this was implemented as a base mechanic for the hemorrhage status effect, you'd get players quitting, like people STILL DC for Legion. Nobody enjoys mending and healing simulator and a change like this would be just about the same thing.
Anyways, I think it would be awesome as a hex perk. Ruin for heals, with maybe a little something else to make it even more worth taking. But definitely not as a base mechanic for the hemorrhage effect.
Do not make it a hex perk. Right now, no one ever uses hemorrhage because of how useless it is, make it useful and Killers will use it more often. This is killer favored but it has to be killer favored, otherwise, no killer would use it, like how it currently is. Yes, it would force less experienced survivors to be in a bad position, but it will teach them when and where can they heal. Making it a hex perk would render it completely useless as why run it when you can run Ruin for gen regression or Devour Hope for instadowns. Besides, if a survivor makes a mistake with a skill check when healing, they made a mistake so they should be punished. In most cases, survivors finish the heal in one go. I do think that if they make this change it needs to be split from sloppy butcher, as that would make the perk too strong.
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@lowiq said:
So what happens when the idiots beat the killer?
I am not a good survivor at all, and I have beaten multiple killers. Mostly that is because the killer never capitalizes on the mistakes of the survivors or makes poor decisions. In other words, when a team of idiots beats a killer, that killer is probably also an idot.
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@Boddy604 said:
You'd have to rework the entire character. Their entire playstyle revolves around slugging, it's literally all they're good at.
Funny you say that, I just made a post running down the list of things that they can do and that is the same conclusion I reached. The entire character is flawed and needs to be reworked heavily.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1835729#Comment_1835729
I think Billy suffers from the Ryu connundrum. He is a solid all around character, strong in the right hands, easy to pick up and play, but then BECAUSE of this he is probably the most common to face, especially at low levels where players don't have access to all the content (or the more difficult characters are just... too difficult at that level). So everyone at red ranks KNOWS what to do against Billy. He is almost like the default killer (sorry Trapper). So as survivors get better, Billy doesn't necessarily get weaker he just requires exponentially more and more skill to keep up.
I agree with this, and this is where his nerfs hit him hard. Hillbilly's ability is good for map pressure, but it has very little chase potential compared to before. Personally, I think that both Hag and PH are stronger than him without perks, but Hillbilly benefits from perks more than they do. I really hate how they got rid of Hillbilly's ability to play in loops, as it made the Ryu problem even worse. Unlike Trapper, who even at the highest level can surprise you with a new spot, Hillbilly is stuck with a kit that while being good, feels bad. Contrast this with PH, who makes you feel like a cold, calculating monster, or Deathslinger who makes you feel like you might actually be good at first-person shooters.
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Look, Doctor is a scary killer, but not a deadly one. He will force you into chases, but he has a hard time ending them. Doctor, but simply, is a scrub stomper. If you don't know what you are doing and don't have a plan at all times, you are going to fail. My general tips are
- Do Gens far apart from one another. Doctor, like most killers, is nasty with a good three gen.
- Make him overextend. If you can get him to commit to a chase on the other side of the map than the gens, you can make him waste valuable time
- Figure out what addons he is using so you don't get caught out by them.
- DO NOT TRY STEALTH. That is the worst thing you can do as a survivor
- Don't try to escape chases, extend them. If you leave a chase, you are most likely in tier 3 madness and can't do anything until you snap out of it. This means that the Doctor knows that he can harass another survivor without having to worry about you doing gens. Instead, keep him in the chase to make him waste as much time as possible.
Overall, the Doctor is a killer that brings a lot to the table, but none of it really sticks. The problem is that lower rank survivors tend to play in the exact playstyle the Doctor punishes. But if you focus on gens and distracting him for long enough, he is a very easy killer to beat.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
Nah.
It's risk/reward with incredibly tight timing for a survivor but extremely satisfying when done right, and I think you're downplaying just what you can do about it as a killer.
You can look at a wall, of course, and considering a lot of downs happen at loops or buildings that's not too hard to pull off. And even otherwise, you have to realize that a survivor going for a flashlight save, positioning themselves for it, trying to avoid getting detected.. is doing a whole lot of nothing otherwise. I love when people bring flashlights, because they waste a lot of time prepping for saves that's easily foiled by either looking at walls or just checking the area and chasing them off. They're usually gonna try and stealth around to catch you unaware, so one good smack and watching them run off means they've got no hope of saving now.
Or better yet, slugging the first guy and going to down the would-be saver. That's someone down, someone being chased and someone else who has to go get the slugged dude, creating a lot of good pressure.
I actually agree with you there, but sometimes that game decides that the wall you are looking at is not actually a wall and you get blinded. And as a Killer Main, I have won multiple games just because the poor sap went for a flashlight save and got downed for his troubles.
The reason why I think they need changes outside of the reason I already mentioned in the post is that they are too binary. There is no real depth to it, and survivor gameplay desperately needs more depth than press a button at the right time.
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@Exerath1992 said:
Naw fam, that's whack. Flashlight saves are valid, gives the killer something to worry about
On top of gens, survivors, ds, bt, exhaustion perks, head on stuns, hook sabotages, and Keys? If you want to give Killer something to worry about, there are much better ways. My main problem with Flashlight saves is that they are inconsistently strong. 80% don't work, but the other 20% of the time it does.
@lowiq said:
Yes, let's just delete everything that requires skill in this game.
We can have M1 only killers, no pallets or windows and a hold W game.
I am assuming that you just read the admittedly rather click-baiting title and assumed from there. If anything, my solution adds more skill by making the flashlight saves less about just pressing the right button at the right time but rather carefully planning when to stun to maximize the amount of wiggle gained.
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The reason why Deathslinger is so unfun to play against is that you are rewarded for going for cheap, close shots instead of harder to hit long-range ones.
Deathslinger is at his most fun when you are desperately trying to dodge out of the way before you make it to the next piece of cover when he sniping you, not getting shot because he had a line of sight for 2 seconds in a loop.
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The Trapper
Evan's father was a worshipper of the Entity, Evan was not. That being said, Evan did know about it and has a series of notes on it.
Evan also serves as the Entity's personal just-fix-it person. Perk busted? He has to fix it. Are people stuck in a hook? He has to fix it. The Entity may be a god, but it is very bad at precision and tends to rely on Evan more than it should.
Speaking of Notes, Evan has a collection of notes on every survivor in order to figure out ideal trap placements. Feng Min? Trap windows to counter her lithe. Jake? One visible trap as bait, and one hidden trap to get him. Jane? Trap the locker. And so on and so on. The only survivors he struggles with is Meg because her sprint burst means she can just one in a straight line away from his traps and Yui because she keeps messing with his trapped pallets.
The Plague
Okay, so you know how when a teenage girl meets their favorite celebrity and they just freak out? Yeah, the Plague did that.
If Evan is the right-hand man of the entity, then Plague is it's Left-Hand Women.
Speaking of the Trapper, the two have very different views of the Trials. For Evan, it's a job. For Adiris, it is an honor and a privilege. The two also serve as advisors when it comes to the Entity's plans. For the most part, Adiris serves as the Yes-Women to the Entity while Evan points out the flaws and actually makes good changes. (The plan for A Binding of Kin was made without Evan there).
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
Problem with side objectives is that some killers could use them but on others they're completely unnecesary. Sure it could help the stealth killers and setup killers. But then you'd have to both nerf a ton of existing gen slowdown perks aswell as potentially nerf the stronger killers that already can end chases in 10-20 seconds from full health.
Actually, let's run with that. Certain killers have certain side objectives, and you can use that to narrow down who you are facing before you see them.
For example, let's say the door has a box on the switch, and you need to find a crowbar to yank it off. However, only three killers have that side objective, Pig, Wraith, or Trapper. It serves both as a stalling tool to slow down the game for the killers, but also provides the survivors with some information on who they are dealing with.
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@Starshadw said:
I disagree - Trapper can be super effective and incredibly deadly. If someone plays them like other Killers, then yes, they are going to struggle. The Trapper requires a very different strategy to play if someone wants to be effective. It's not about early map pressure, it's more about getting to your traps around the map and placing them and getting prepped and ready for mid-game and beyond
Trapper, in the best-case scenario, can destroy a team easily. The problem is that Trapper will rarely get to that point. It is not that he can't be good, its that the amount of work it takes to get to that point. Even if you set up traps, it is very easy for a survivor to disarm or avoid traps. I do agree that Trapper can be super effective, but almost all other killers can be just as effective without needing as much effort as the trapper does.
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I feel like you could do two things with her.
First, you could just do a couple of debuffs for sick people. Like maybe a 10% slowdown or something.
Secondly, a complete rework of her power favoring one side of her kit.
Personally? I think that just giving survivors a reason to cleanse outside of being broken should be enough.
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@GannTM said:
If we're talking no add ons, trapper is pretty bad, but he's got some add ons that change up his playstyle and make him a threat.
"I am aware that some of his addons do negate some of the issues, but no killer should be reliant on addons to have fun."
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@Slashstreetboy said:
I disagree with some of your points.
1) It´s your job to make them step on a trap (takes decent trapper skill)
5) Wraith has better map pressure than most Killers
Your other points have merit imo.
The upgrade to 2 traps at the start and a base carrying capacity of 2 will help tremendously with his setup. I got more:
Trapper Sack now gives +0/+1, Trapper Bag +1/+1 and Stitched Bag +1/+2
A common complaint is that Trappers traps are not threatening enough. Rescue time is only 1,7 seconds, which I´d buff to 4 seconds.
Escape time should be possible after a 4 second animation, each attempt taking 2 seconds - so without help, 6 seconds of trapped time are guaranteed. Escape chance unchanged.
New base effects.
-Stepping on a trap while healthy adds 5% hindered until fully healed
-Stepping on a trap while injured increases escape time by 50% and/or causes deep wound
-Stepping on a trap while in deep wounds causes the honing stone effect
-A Survivor disarming a trap will now trigger Killer instinct as long as the disarming is in process
-Disarm base time increased to 5 seconds
-Longwood Dye base with the addons darkening the traps further accordingly
-Serrated jaws now cause 5% extra hindered instead of hemmorage
-Dead Hard will no longer avoid getting caught by a trap
-Red Twine and Rainbow Map no longer reveal Bear Traps
-Traps can no longer spawn closer than 30 meters from the edges of the map
-Object Nerf or something at base for Trapper that mitigates the insane counter of Object towards his power, not sure what though
Compared to other Killers, he still wouldn´t be high tier by any means, but in my opinion as a Trapper "main" these humble, I reckon easy to implement changes would help lifting Trapper out of the trash can of every competent tier list.
I like the ideas, especially the stuff with the added hinderance.
I also agree with you that trapper should force survivors to step on a trap, but my problem is that if they see the trap, which is rather easy with no addons, they will avoid it. This can be used to deny some loops, but the survivor can just disarm it afterwards.
By itself, survivors having to step on the trap is not an issue. But when combined with how easy it is to avoid and disarm a trap once you see it, it becomes a problem.
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@Thanotos_Omega said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1826569#Comment_1826569
Or as i have said over and over and over to you, you can learn where hags place their traps, and if you aren't in a state of suspense when moving through a likely trapped area then that is a failing of the base game mechanic failing to make the threat of the killer legitimate enough,
Streamers have a financial incentive towards specific gameplay, they are not a reliable source of what is and not actually fun for everyone ingame,
If people always choose to rescue then killers are entitled to use that knowledge to form their tactics and strats, because hey you know what's better than one dead may or maybe not dead guy? that plus a chase plus the possibility of another chase and hook if the other rescuer rushes in and you catch him not depending on gens the survivors are in a terrible spot where they legit have to rescue or face a really hard late game, and all because someone couldn't be bothered to not rescue every hooked person ever, you don't have to rescue that person, you can just do gens and trust another player whose got more experience and knows how hag's play to do it and either outplay her or get outplayed, or get doomed because the unhooked person rushed out setting off traps and they are now both hooked, and you can now decide to either follow the other remaining player to try and help rescue, or you can look for the hatch and camp it, or you can choose to finish the last gen so if the rescue works you can open the gate and everyone escapes or no one does because the last person messed up and is now hooked and the hag closes the hatch and the gates are in range of her traps and you forget to crouch on your way up to the gate to start trying to open it and she jumps you and you die, all born of choices, that you and others made, all because the hag knew someone was going to come along and try to rescue the first hooked person,
if ya'll would just once in a while not go for the rescue camping wouldn't be as popular, 99% odds are worth banking the game on, but if there is only a 60% chance someone is going to rescue that person well you have to weigh the odds, and decide if your willing to wager the game on that, or if you will put your hook at greater risk by going out and trying to get other survivors, and apply pressure, as it stands though rescues both have a success rate that encourages survivors to engage in them and a occurrence rate that get's killers to count on them,
I am a killer main, and I can say with absolute certainty that survivors should be able to go for the save. My main issue with hag is that she gets a lot of reward for little cost, especially regarding unhooks. Setting up traps is quick and easy, and the traps serve both as tools to get hits and as intel. Combine this with the right addons and Make Your Choice and you can cut down survivors with ease. It is very unfair towards survivors, as the hag can get in a chase with another survivor and teleport and the right time. The counter, crouching, is also rather dumb and is way to slow with out Urban Evasion.
Flashlights also are there, but they will run out of battery rather quickly.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
They don’t hate stealth. They just don’t want games where the killer indefinitely cannot find any survivors all game, and they don’t want games where the survivors have an impossible time detecting a killer all match long. There needs to be some give and take in forcing some interaction against stealthy survivors, and giving survivors some sort of chance against stealthy killers. We don’t won’t lopsided matches.
While I do think stalling the game is annoying and should be dealt with, this is more of a band aid to the issue rather than an actual solution. Stealth can be used to stall games, but it can also be used for some really interesting plays on both sides. I think that there are better solutions to stalling rather than cutting out stealth. This is also ignoring stealth killers, who suffer extremely from the lack of stealth options.
@MiniPixels said:
The new maps are much darker and have more grass that is denser, this also makes it harder to track scratch marks as killer, if anything they favor stealth.
I have noticed this, but I have always been good at spotting them so I never really had an any issue there. Besides, I can usually catch them in the many dead zones between loops.
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1819153#Comment_1819153
That goes for survivors, but that doesn't apply to the GhostFace who needs to be stealthy and have something to hide behind while he gets his stalk on. OP is talking about it from both the killer and survivor perspectives.
I just want to add to this that because stealth is so poor on these maps it makes it very hard for killer to approach gens from unexpected angles.
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Gearhead suffers from the Behavior's great fear of power creep.
If we ignore the actual mechanics of Gearhead, and focus on concept, this perk makes sense.
But the restrictions combined with how the perk is reliant on rng makes the perk low tier. I won't call it bad, just not as good as the other options.
You could make a good build with this perk and make good use out of it, but when compared to its peer's it will always come up lacking.
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@Ohnoes said:
The perk is supposed to be for avoiding damage not making distance. You're complaining about the wrong aspect of the perk.
Avoiding Damage is technically the purpose of all exhaustion perks.
Also, what is the wrong aspect of the perk according to you?
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
If you know how GF's detection works its pretty easy to avoid detection, even if the survivor knows you're location.
They do, I think, need to have a better visual cue to show survivors if they're actually exposing him or not.
I have gotten pretty good at avoid detection, but I still feel like the mechanic could use some fine tuning. I think that survivors should have to actually look at the direction of the killer, but may make it too hard to reveal ghost face in certain situations.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/205084/the-nurse-is-a-very-poorly-designed-killer
The Nurse is one of the best Killers in the game, albeit one with a steep learning curve. You should rethink your commentary a bit. I think there being a great Killer that takes effort to master is great. Someday I'll try to learn her and go from zero to hero with her. Only time will tell.
Yeah, the idea behind the post was to state some issues with Nurse's design, but then show how the two problems actually solve each other. After that, I would then use spirit as an example as a killer that shares a similar power to nurse but is considered by the community to be annoying to face. I could probably rewrite the post so it is more clear with my points, but I do think that the nurse is in a good spot.
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@Orion said:
The Nurse is the only killer that turns a chase into skill vs skill. If you're better than the Nurse, you win. If not, you lose. Just the way the Entity intended.
If you get caught in a bad position, you should get hit - it's called a consequence. This is not a point against the Nurse so much as it is a point in favor of buffing the Demogorgon's Shred.
Like I said, I am fine with Nurse's Power. I think she is in a great spot, the problem is that they tried to make a similar character to her in spirit and I think I can say comfortably that quite a lot of people dislike the spirit. Nurse is not the problem, but the design philosophy behind her is the problem. They also do need to buff Demo's shred so that I don't need to run rat liver every dang time.
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@indieeden7 said:
Trust me, this is the best iteration of the hatch that has ever been in the game, you never used to be able to close it as killer.
Do not remind me of those times. They were dark times. Times in which infinites ran amok, were survivors reached heights unreachable heights. Do not remind me of those dark, dark times.
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I like the idea. I would say it is too powerful, but it is a hex perk so you can disable it. Overall, it is still may not be as good as the alternatives, but how there is a reason to run it.
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As a killer, I have had far more success scaring survivors as ghost face than as hag. There is nothing more terrifying for a survivor than hearing the exposed effect out of no where, and the next thing they know they are downed. Hag is a close second, but I have noticed it tends to be less of a "I just jumped out of my seat" and more of a "I should known better". In the end, they are both spooky killers who I will continue to spook with.
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@gatsby said:
Personally, I’d like to see most realms have multiple maps. It’d make the game more interesting and wouldn’t be nearly as hard as creating new maps because a lot of the assets could be reused
That could also work.
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1735884#Comment_1735884
Yeah, but you don't see me complaining about it. If anything survivors are wasting farm offerings, when they should be sending you to ormond.
That is the one map that is judged by both sides to be extremely survivor sided
But you know, most of the time it's a hate the player not the game type of deal.
I actually bring this up in the post, but that is why I hate offerings like the locket or the phalanx bone. You can't use them to go to a map you want, only get a 1 in 5 chance for the map you want.
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@chieften333 said:
The only reason the original 3 have 5 realms each is because those were originally the only realms.
You sound like you want a reason to complain so you're taking it out on the realms you do bad on.
I have been sent to the farm realm like 4 times in a row. Regardless of how good I do, I am going to get sick of seeing all the corn everywhere.
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@FrootLoops said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1734384#Comment_1734384
I understand, and I appreciate that you recognize that the "don't get downed" argument is just as bad as my "just don't let gens pop" argument, which really is the point I was trying to make.
honestly I think both Mori's and Keys are in a bad place. it is absolutely correct to rework them. I think keys should limit the number of survivors that can escape (there is an achievement/trophy for a 4 man key escape, so they need to keep that possible, but maybe only with a pink key and maybe a pink addon for a key) but I also think Mori's should be 1 Mori per completed gen
I think that would be an interesting rework for the Moris, but that might have some unintended consequences. My solution for the hatch was to have the hatch "take" a hook stage away, so if a survivors has not been hooked the killer gets points as if they hooked them once, if a survivor is on death hook the killer gets treated as if they were sacrificed, and so on and so on. I don't think that is the best solution, but it would be easy to implement. I also think that moris are more powerful than keys, but you can find a key in a middle of a match and carry four of them, a killer has to bring a mori in. They both need fixing, but I just find keys to be more frustrating to deal with than a mori.
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@FrootLoops said:
easy counter to keys, just don't let any gens pop and slug for the 4k. a good killer will apply enough pressure that no gens get done and so the hatch doesn't appear until you've got the last survivor hooked.
Mate, I am in red ranks. People know how to get gens done. I recognize that my whole "just don't get downed" argument was bad and missed the point I was trying to make, but expecting me to able to stop all gens from popping and slugging everyone is even more stupid and dumb. Not even the best Killer mains can expected to do that consistently.
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@MrLimonka said:
Haha yeah! Absolutely! The best strategy to winning as survivor is to not get caught in the first place too! How genius!
Very poor attempt at bait. Maybe you didn't realize, but if you bring a mori, you will always get to use it during the match. If you bring a key, there is a high chance that you won't get to use it.
And don't even bring up emblems, because getting mori'd off of the first hook also makes you lose your rank. On an even larger scale than keys.
I will be honest I say I have been tunneled with a mori exactly one time, so I never really cared to much about it. But now that I think about that, then yeah, Moris and Keys are both equally terrible. I completely forgot about that, and that kind of negates one of my major arguments. Also, what I meant by the whole "just don't get downed" is that for certain killers, like trapper, setting up a 3 gen is very important for certain builds, and Keys can make that strategy useless if one person is killed, while for the Mori not getting downed is something you should always be doing. I don't think that any one can just avoid not being downed, again Moris as still BS, but I hate how it can negate any endgame strategies.
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@Laurab84 said:
You do realise that to use a key you have to do all thr gens when all 5 are left..... if not the hatch will only spawn when you have at least 3 gens done if there are two of you left. So your logic is incorrect you can't just walk into a match, do one gen and all get out
I have had multiple times where I have set up a three gen as trapper, killed on of the survivors, and then had the other three escape via hatch. Similar to Moris, they don't entirely negate the task of doing gens or opening the door, but they make it so that you don't have to all of them, just enough to get the hatch to spawn.
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@Mister_xD said:
so the mori counter is "just dont go down"?
yeah, thats not gonna happen. maybe a year or two ago this could have been a valid argument, but not anymore.
i dont think it matters which is stronger than the other, fact is that both are absolutely busted and need to be changed.
Yeah, Both are completely BS. I just always found keys as a killer more annoying than moris as a survivor, but that could be because I tend to play around the endgame a lot, so I have to deal with keys all the time. But what really matters, as you mentioned, is that they fix both of them. You should not be able to just not do an objective because you have a certain item, that is stupid.
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@GoshJosh said:
Correction: you can get merciless killer with a 3k.
Really? I thought in order to get it you had to kill everyone. I still stand by the idea, but that is nice to know. Thank you.
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When I state, "lose a hook stage" I don't mean that they die. What I mean by that is, while the survivor still escapes and receives all the points that come with that, the killer is treated as if he did hook them an extra time. Survivor is not affected by this change in any way, except maybe causing more killers to let the last one escape via hatch.
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Just so you know, this is the outdated version of this chapter. The updated version, with more information and the survivor, is called Reflections of Desperation. Why the name change? I just liked the other name a bit more, and it ties into the general theme of some of the perks.
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@lowiq said:
Survivors should be to yeet killers out of the way.
I now have the mental image of David just wrestling Legion. Not a member of Legion, every member of the legion. And he is still winning.
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@Exerath1992 said:
I think if a survivor is body blocking a killer it shouldn't force the killer to go around. They should be able to be moved slightly, but as it stands a survivor can block a corner and the killer has to go around. They should be nudgeable, but not to the pount where you could easily push a survivor into a corner
Yeah, that is the idea. My idea behind it was that you could body block to prevent a lunge, but if the killer is right next to you they can still hit their intended target.
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I think that the Killer side should have access to tools that can counter any tactic survivors can do, but they can't use all of them. I also think that survivors should be able to share information they know better without being in a SWF. The job of the survivors is to adapt to what ever the killer brings, and the job of the killer is to react to what ever the survivors do. I don't think it should be base kit, but I do think there should be a perk that counters body blocking.
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The ultimate example of a perk like that is iron maiden. You will only have like one person trigger it, as once survivors realize you have it, they will never go into a locker again. Overall, I think perks like that are great, but tend to be overshadowed by more meta perks. But when you get the right build for those perks, you can absolutely destroy the survivors.
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This perk is in a weird spot. the core ability of it is fine, but the problem is that it gives way too much freedom for survivors due to it giving a free minute of time to mess around with. If they made it so that you can't work on gens or cleanse totems without losing it, then it will be more balanced.
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@APoipleTurtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1728944#Comment_1728944
Rancor also lets the Obsession know where you are (unless you are Undetectable). It's pretty much just a worse version of Dark Sense that has a situational mori caveat lumped into it. It's a terrible perk.
I disagree with you here. Rancor by itself is not that good, but when combined with perks that reward you for avoiding the obsession like PWYF or STBFL, you can get some great vale out of it. It is really good if you are running a build based around the mid and late game, as it serves a purpose in both.