AnnoyingNarrator
AnnoyingNarrator
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@Seraphor said:
*rants about Proxy Camping while actually pointing out all the problems with Tunnelling*
That is because Proxy Camping is how a killer can effectively tunnel. These aren't two separate problems, there is a direct link between them. This statement is the equivalent of *rants about toolboxes while actually pointing out all the problems with gen rushing*. Tunneling out a survivor is the end goal of Proxy Camping. That is why tunneling is such an important part of the discussion.
@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/400534/proxy-camping-needs-to-be-destroyed
"But Narrator," says that killer main, "Who cares about those evil survivors, proxy camping helps us killers (who are oppressed by society) win against those evil sweaty teams!" Of course, anyone who is more experienced understands that this statement is completely false. Proxy Camping doesn't work against sweaty teams, because they can use the few counter to proxy camping effectively. A sweaty SWF will use perks like resurgence to win, while the Solo Q player get curb stomped.
A strawman into an appeal to authority, impressive.
Honestly, I probably could have phrased this better, but I still stand by the point. Proxy Camping is what can be called a "noob stomper" where it works best against teams don't have the ability or knowledge to counter it. So a more experienced team will be able to deal Proxy Camping, while newer players will get destroyed. Oh, and for the sake of being pedantic, this is an example of the fallacy fallacy, which is just fun thing to say.
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@Steakdabait said:
Pinky is so overrated imo the only thing it's actually good at is facecamping. It would only work once per match vs good survivors and bottles are actually kinda hard to hit ppl with.
That is what I mean by that is sucks.
This addon is really only good for facecamping, which is not healthy for the game.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
When I looked up bias on the dictionary, your name was included.
You inherently can't feel all powerful in a PvP game unless the game is significantly unbalanced or you're stomping noobies or in general maybe having one of those rare games where it is challenging enough but you still manage to win. You can also just play a a single player game in that case.
At least you're pretty honest for a killer main saying you hate survivors and want to keep solo que in the state if currently is. I'll give you that. But you're not more important than 4 other people and your fun shouldn't be prioritized.
DBD is a game with two different sides, each appealing to a different fantasy.
The killer is about the power fantasy, while the survivor is about, well, the survivor fantasy. One side is about feeling like you in control, a dominating force that shapes the game, while the other side is about close calls and narrow escapes, outsmarting a superior foe. In other words, in order for survivors to feel like survivors, killers need to feel like killers and vice versa.
You don't feel powerful crushing a team of noobs, you feel powerful when you beat a team of skilled survivors. You don't feel like a badass survivor for beating someone who is new, but a killer that knows what he is doing. Enjoyment is not a finite resource that has to be taken from the other side. DBD is at its best when both sides feel like they are facing an equal opponent, because that is when it is the most fun.
The killer having more fun does not mean that survivors are having less, and in many cases can actually mean that survivors have more fun as well. Most of my changes add more opportunities for survivor-killer interactions, more ways for killers to create plans which means more variety for Survivors.
Also, even if that last bit about me hating survivors is sarcasm, did you miss the next line? About me wanting survivors to also have fun? Because the whole point of that section was about how I don't want to make playing survivor unfun?
You did the videogamedunkey thing, the classic:
*insert person here* is nitpicking and biased, I win.
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Pharmacy is a victim of BHVR not understanding why people use perks. Before the great rework, Pharmacy used to let you get its effects any time you want. Their logic was that by making this change, Pharmacy is now better then before because it can now give survivors mulitple health kits. In practice, it is rather worthless. Against hit and run killers, it does not give enough heals to counter them, while against killers that down survivors, you can just have the person who unhooked you heal you. The change is a nerf because it goes against efficient play. Instead of how it was before, where you could use Pharmacy early on to give a free med kit to anyone who needed it, now it only is rather wortheless when compared to say CoH.
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I think the Entity could use a tome. For an all-powerful god of evil, we don't know really anything thing about her. I think it would be interesting to see how the Entity ended up creating the trials in the first place.
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@Crowman said:
I don't think the solution to fixing a problem with cheaters is to change the perk.
If running into auto dead harders is a problem for you, you can bait out the dead hard by missing your swing. The script as far as I can tell only checks if the Killer is close enough to hit you and if they swing. Swing at nothing they dead hard and get no where.
But then you are giving up free distance. I don't like the idea of changing perks just to prevent one group of players from abusing it, but I don't really see any other option.
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Rancor is a perk that provides great utility and lethality as well.
Any Means Necessary is a surprisingly effective information perk along with a situational but powerful resource tool.
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This is a great example of two problems with DBD's design.
First is that survivors don't really care about other survivors. Not from a player standpoint, but from a reward one. If you die and the rest of your team makes it out, what do you get? Nothing. The only way you are getting that sweet survival points is through escaping. A good idea for a fix is to reward players a fraction of points from their teammates actions when they are in chase or the killer is camping them.
On the other hand, this runs into the classic issue of this game being a 1v4, not a 1v1. DS was a plague in endgame because the only way to negate it is to get rid of it earlier in the match. Or in other words, tunnel that person. A similar issue happens with OTR, where survivors could use the speed boost from the hit to be safe with no real counter play by the killer.
That is the main reason why it got changed, NO SURVIVOR PERK SHOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE BY THE KILLER. No matter what the perk is, killers should have some way to negate its effects with a reasonable cost. If someone has sprint burst, trick them into wasting it. If someone has BT, go after the unhooker. Survivor perks should be impactful, but never guarantee an escape.
Another thing to mention is the misconception that the game is over once the generators are done, which is not true. The endgame is supposed to be the most dramatic part of the match, with survivor rushing to get the gates open while killers have nothing to lose.
I honestly just think they need to make having your teammates survivor give you, the poor survivor who looped the killer for 5 gens and was left behind, something tangible.
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@GreyBigfoot said:
Rapture from Bioshock (because that's my dream DLC)
I think BHVR could really do the creepy underwater atmosphere justice.
Honestly, that sounds amazing.
You could have one area be a swanky bar while the other is a warehouse. In the middle, the aftermath of Rapture's Civil War.
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Actually, I can think of one worse.
Escape via hatch with a key 2 times.
This was, on release, pretty easy. However, the changes to keys means that it takes some serious planing and a lot of luck to pull this off.
The fact that you have to do it twice is just a cherry on top.
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The only change I wish they made was adding some more prestige awards.
Like maybe giving you the new potrait background if you get a killer/survivor to prestige level 100
Outside of that, these are a lot of great changes
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/332906/thoughts-about-map-design
Uhhh Shelter Woods would like to have a word with you
Shelter Woods is just one huge dead zone. The only thing that survivors can really do is hold w and hope the killer is not a mobile one.
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I have actually thought about this and realized that Trapper actually becomes top tier. He can easy protect not just hooked survivors but also hexes. Sure, he can't down people but that is what his teammate is for. Heck, even Legion gets better.
The strongest combo I could think of off the top of my head assuming the killers get 4 perks each was Compound Blight with Dead Lock, Infections Fright, Forced Penace and Thatophobia and a Bloody Coil Trapper with Corrupt Intervention, Devour Hope, No Way Out, and Agitation.
Trapper defends his Devour Hope while Blight shreds through pallets and just harasses survivors. If a survivor goes down, Trapper takes them to a hook (usually basement) with traps around it. The Trapper will not defend the hook as to gain Devour Hope Stacks but instead just make survivors become injured slowly the game even more. By the time the Trapper gets 3 stacks of Devour Hope, Blight should have gotten rid of at least some pallets making it easy for Trapper to get the last two stacks. After that, Blight defends the totem while Trapper kills everyone left.
My logic for while Blight instead of Nurse is that Blight goes through pallets very quickly. Hag would also be good if she did not have to teleport to each location to hit someone.
Other strong builds include Oni and Plague/Legion, The Pig and The Doctor, Ghost Face and Nurse, and Pinhead with Legion to make Deep Wound a nightmare.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Seeing the aura is interesting, but if you've played deathslinger enough you have the muscle memory for the range, maybe an add-on that replace's one of the more worse add-on's like the speed increase ones when you ADS.
The part 2 effect Sharpshooter's shot, is interesting, but sort of make's the reel effect redundant. I understand the risk/reward being suggested. I generally don't like the idea of having to take fast shot's because in 2 second's the aim will be locked, that generally wouldn't feel nice having movement suddenly being interfered with when your taking a little bit of time to get the shot.
I would suggest to keep it the same, while ADS a meter build's around the slinger's power icon (let's keep it at 2 second's for this example), this is basically the gun building pressure for the damage and range effect in a sense. Once full the slinger can switch the firing mode to the one you described, where the only movement is forward, backward and strafing. I would also add a power meter depletion for when in this mode, once the meter run's out the gun fire's regardless. Coming out of ADS in this mode, without firing, would put the redeemer on cooldown for a small bit.
There would be a taken issue to deathslinger getting injure's or downs from long range, but considiring all of the condition's and setup it feel's warranted, not sure about giving slinger more setup and condition's like the amount he has. Not sure how useful getting the damage state would be, it would be very map and situation reliant, but it would make those terror radius add-on's feel like they have a place.
Edit: spelling
The first part is more so for newer players than for experienced deathslingers.
Also for my idea it would not be just ADS for two seconds that triggers the mode, but rather ADS and standing still for two seconds, but that could be reduced down to just a second.
I do like your idea of having the meter build around the slinger's power icon.
Also the Terror Radius Addons would not be that useful because when in this Sharpshooter mode the slinger would have no Terror Radius instead having a lullaby.
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Another benifit of Oni is that his skills transfer over to a lot of other killers.
When you play Oni, you get better at being an m1 killer, better at Mind games, and better at understanding the hit boxes of each map and how to use them to your advantage.
He is also good at figuring out how to slug correctly and can use some really fun perks to great effect.
He is one of my favorite killers because he feels powerful but not completely unfair like Nurse. When you do well as Oni, it is not because he is broken, it is because you predicted exactly what that survivor was going to do and used it to crush them. After all,
"Within your enemy's strength is weakness." -Renjiro's Doctrine 12:5
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@Majin151 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016956#Comment_3016956
Speak for yourself I used it with prove thyself,iron will and deja vu(sometimes spine chill) to become the gen rush machine
I feel like you are better off with a tool box and streetwise/built to last but honestly, that build just sounds so cool.
Unless the killer is Oni.
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Resilience is also dead as well, as the only reason to run it was to combine it with Spine Chill for Vault Speed
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I feel like this change came about because BHVR does not actually play their game.
They know that bloodlust helps killers, they want to have higher kill rates, so they buff bloodlust.
It is definitely not needed and just promotes bad habits for killers.
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When it comes to Iron Will, it is more of a victim from how the game's sounds work. In its current state, it is without a doubt too good. It is a powerful that can't really be countered in any meaningful way. Now it is rather worthless because you are better off running other perks suck as Bite the Bullet or the Buffed Off The Record. I also don't like how this change buffs spirit, a killer already very strong.
Spine Chill changes just hurt. To be blunt, if this update passes there will be no reason to run this perk. If they just made it so that undectable killers don't trigger the effect, that would have been a fine Nerf. The loss of the vault speed is rather sad, but it was only really mattered when stacked with Resilience. This also means that Resilience got nerfed from the loss of that combo. As someone who loves Ghost Face, I do like the way it makes stealth killers actually stealthy.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3004908#Comment_3004908
- I'm not sure why you're adding 15 seconds to "find a survivor" if you fully Mark them versus "partially mark them". You're going to spend the same amount of time finding survivors either way, you're not somehow saving that amount of time if you partially mark them.
- Killer's time being valuable doesn't change the value of a survivor being off a generator. A survivor not doing a generator for 30-60 seconds is still adding at least 30-60 seconds to the net time it will take the survivors as a group to finish them.
- You're calculating the time it takes to fully mark someone as 5 seconds, but for some reason are not at all calculating the time it takes to 99% a survivor which is literally the same amount of time minus 1%.
- I haven't commented on any "changes" because that wasn't what I originally replied about. The only point in my original reply was, and still is, that the new Ghost Face has more flexibility to fully Mark survivors rather than rely mainly on 99% Marks. I have no opinion on whatever the change is you're talking about.
- The reason why I was adding 15 seconds was because I was working under the assumption that we are marking a survivor for the sake of pushing them off a gen rather than trying to down them. We are finding them, marking them, and then letting them go. If our goal is to down them, then you are correct, it does not matter if we are partially marking them or fully marking them when it comes to the amount of time we are wasting finding them.
- While it is true that getting a survivor off gens is still good, I disagree with how much time you are getting, at least when it comes to a full team. I think it is more around 15-30 seconds. However, if we are talking about marking survivors to buy time, a much more effective, if more toxic, is to mark a survivor trying to go for a save. Even if you don't down them, the ability to turn a team of four into a team of two for even a few seconds can be an absoute game changer.
- This point is another example of me not making it clear enough what I was talking about, sorry. I was assuming that we were marking a survivor and then letting them go rather than marking a survivor and downing them.
- Honestly, I agree with you when it comes to new Ghost Face being more flexible when it comes to marking survivors. The ability to mark a survivor to stop them from going for a save can be very strong. 99 is still GF's go to method for downing survivors, but the changes have opened up some new techniques that are quite powerful. In other words, I misread your original comment.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003163#Comment_3003163
- Getting a mark to full never takes 15 seconds. Either you get it in about 5-10 seconds or you don’t.
- Good survivors are already aware of their surroundings regardless of the killer. Especially ones with Spine Chill don’t particularly become “more aware” just because it’s Ghost Face.
- You’re wrong about the mark not getting experienced players off the gens. In fact, it’s the new players who don’t know what the mark means that stay on the gens once they’re marked.
Yes, the actual act of marking a survivor takes around 10 seconds at most. However, you are forgetting the time it takes to find survivors in the first place.
While good survivors do pay attention to their environment already, they aren't looking for ghost face. They aren't making sure they can't be seen from a distance, they aren't checking for a ghost face stalking them from an odd angle. The same way that a good player looks for the nearest vault against Bubba, or for the nearest wall against killers like Huntress, a player who knows they are going against GF will play differently. They will use routes that are harder to see, they will position themselves to be harder to stalk, etc. It is much easier to mark a survivor who does not even know you are in the game, regardless of how skilled they are.
Also, I don't know where you got me thinking the mark does not get survivors off gens from. It does, the problem is that there are still three other survivors. If you take 20 seconds (15 seconds to find a survivor, 5 seconds to mark), you stop one survivor from doing gens for 60 seconds. However, killer's time is worth more than survivors, so that 20 seconds of time you spent is roughly 60 seconds of the other survivors on gens. Not to mention, that survivor could still get back on the gen if they realize you are not in the area, which is quite easy if you are in a swf. It is definitely a tool that can be used to great effect, but it is not a game breaking option.
I don't know why you don't want this change. From the survivor's point of view, the only real difference is that you are more likely to be 99. However, you should be playing against GF like you are always 99 so what is the difference? It is just a small QOL Buff to help make GF's power a little more consistent to use. What is your exact reason why you don't want this change?
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3002956#Comment_3002956
- Marking someone to full does throw them off their game because they'll typically panic and stop doing gens, maybe even causing an explosion (and definitely causing regression if you use the purple Driver's License add-on)
- If the worst case is a survivor you Mark hides for 60 seconds and does no gens in the meantime, that's a win. But odds are you're either going to find them again or even just chase them straight after doing it depending on their reaction.
- It's actually easier to stalk multiple survivors when you stalk them to full because stalked survivors can't break you out of stealth while stalking others.
Those first point might be true against newer players, but more experienced players tend to have a better understand of his power.
The second point has a similar problem, against better teams just getting a mark is a task in itself so you have to make it count. Sure, the survivor may not being doing gens for 60 seconds, but if doing that took you longer than 15 seconds, then the survivors have net gain in time since there are four of them. That being said, it can be very powerful to mark a survivor to make them not go for a save.
While it is true that stalked survivors can't break you out of stealth, the main concern when it comes to stalking multiple survivors is the early game. In the first minute of the match, survivors don't know that they are facing a ghost face. If one of their teammates suddenly gets exposed, then that element of surprise is lost. Once good survivors know that they are going against a ghost face, they become way more aware of their surroundings and will try to spot you before you can sneak up on them.
Ghost Face is a noob stomper: Strong against opponents who don't know how to loop m1 killers. Once you get past that point, Ghost Face's danger drops off greatly. I don't want to give Ghost Face some overpowered ability, I just want to have a little more control over how I approach using his power.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3001356#Comment_3001356
But the new Marks last 60 seconds, so even when they run you still have quite a bit of time to hit them later. It’s the equivalent of getting Haunted Grounds to trigger on them. Plus once they’re fully Marked they can’t break you out of stealth for the next 60 seconds if you are stalking someone else. You can even stalk at 40 meter range, beyond the 36 meter range of Spine Chill, to avoid them detecting you that way.
So you really do have quite a bit of buffer where you can Mark to full at longer distance if you want and just catch them later, you don’t have to only 99% like with the old version of Ghost Face. (Not that 99% is a bad tactic, it’s just now the option to fully stalk at longer range instead is more consistent.)
The longer duration helps getting downs, but the main strength of GF is the ability to throw the survivors off their game. 99'ing was not just strong because it gave you a down, it was strong because it gave you a down that, from the survivors pov, came out of nowhere.
Even if you do mark them, how do you find them later? A survivor could easily just hide out the timer and be back on gens when it is up. GF also has a rather lackluster chase power, so that minute of leeway can quick be burnt up with some looping and some pallets. Getting rid of pallets early on can be great, but it is wasting time that you just don't have. But even if we ignore that, the change I want is not really about that.
It is about stalking multiple survivors. Right now, GF can accidentally alert an entire team that he is watching them by revealing someone who was already partially marked. That is all I want changed. By giving GF a dedicated "press to expose" button or something like that, it just makes playing GF easier. I should feel like a deadly stalker, not an accountant trying to keep track of which stock has what value.
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@Emeal said:
Ghostface's kill rate is mostly due to the fact that he is rather difficult to play against if you don't understand his mechanics.
Source? Cause I doubt this.
For starters, the revealing mechanic, one of the key ways to counter ghost face, has some weird gimmicks to it that can throw off even an experienced survivor.
His ability is also more effective against players who are reliant upon the terror radius and the Killer's Red Light.
Put simply, he is a noob stomper. His stealth ability throws survivors who are just learning how to run from the killer off, his ability to expose survivors can make someone panic as they try to avoid being downed, and his lack of red stain letting him get hits on people who rely on what the see rather than knowledge on how the killer has to play the loop.
The Catch is that most of abilities become much weaker against survivors who know what they are doing. Not just less effective, weaker. Stealth can be countered by either bringing Spine Chill or being a little paranoid, The warning that you get from being exposed now lets you run to the nearest loop for safety, and his lack of a Red Light is no real problem because you know how he has to move in order to hit you.
There is one trick that GF has that remains truly scary at even the highest of levels, the 99. The ability to down a survivor instantly with no warning to the survivor is not something that can be overlooked.
So when you combine a killer who can easily take down newer teams while having an ability that can still snowball against more experienced teams, you get a killer with a decent kill rate.
The problem is that we don't know how those kills were gained. Were they proxy-camped? Was it a survivor getting nabbed at the last second? The Kill Rate, in my opinion, is best interpreted as a result of two factors: How good is the average killer playing this killer and how much do survivors as a whole know how to play around this killer.
Ghost Face is an m1 killer, something that most killer mains have at least a good understanding of.
Ghost Face ability requires unique counter play, something that throws many survivors off.
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@Emeal said:
- Then dont hit them, or hit them if you think if you can re-stalk them.
- Then Finish the stalk on one and 99 the next.
Ghostface is pretty mid tier at 54% killrate, idk if that demands a rework.
I will admit that first one is something that you can play around but the second one is not something you can just do. Exposing a survivor also reveals that survivor is exposed for everyone, so a survivor who is next to them who is paying attention will realize that they are also being stalked and then be able to run away.
Ghostface's kill rate is mostly due to the fact that he is rather difficult to play against if you don't understand his mechanics. If you do understand his mechanics, he is actually quite weak. He is not terrible like Trapper or Pig, but he is on the lower side of the tier list. Besides, I don't think kill rate is the best indicator of someone strength because it does not tell you how they played the game. Did they get 10 hooks or did they just camp two people two death? Kill Rate is not something than can just be ignored, but it is also something that should not be considered the ultimate source of should something get reworked.
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@TatsuiChiyo said:
"My team decided to fix gens and not totem hunt, while the Killer played the whole match with 3 perks. Well now he has 4 and now we have to hunt down a totem, but I wanna escape and feel I should cause all gens were done, so the Killer is in the wrong."
Fixed it.
@Marc_123 said:
Everytime the same... if you are so afraid, just bring a perk and destroy the effing totems yourself. No NOED ever - end.
The game is not over when you rushed your gens. If you don´t take the time to cleanse it is your fault if you get NOED.
Dead Hard is so much worse because it has multiple uses. Good players who use it right are one of the most annyoing things in this game. (One time use would fix that).
Every time I hear the whole "just do bones" argument, I just have to ask you all: Have you ever played solo Q before?
Sure, let me just get my three random teammates, who I can't communicate with in any way, to realize that the killer is only running three perks and that therefore NOED is in play so someone needs to to all 5 bones. Also, you don't know how many bones are left in the match so a teammate might go searching for a totem already done. Now, if said killer turns out to be running pentimento, I guess you are just screwed.
"Just Do Bones" is the most Killer-Biased Statement the same way that "Just Wait for DH" is the most Survivor-Biased Statement.
In just one statement you clearly show case a complete and utter lack of understanding of what the other side has to do in order to win.
If you unironically think that "Do Bones" is a legitimate strategy against NOED, I can say without a doubt that you do not understand the balancing of the game. For example, Why survivors even think NOED is in play before the endgame in the first place? There is no warning before it activates!
It does not shock me that the people who support NOED have no understanding of the games mechanics because only bad killers use NOED. If you are good at the game, other perks can be far more effective. You use NOED if you are either using an End Game Build, or you can't keep gens up and secure a kill.
Full Disclosure, the main reason why I hate NOED has everything to do with how BHVR balances their game and Wraith. They love their statistics, especially their kill rates. Guess which perk heavily screws with that data? NOED. Guess which M1 killer got nerfed after being just decent because a bunch of people played him with NOED? Wraith.
I am sorry for being so rude, but "Just Do Bones" and "Just Wait for DH" are my two personal most hated arguements that I keep seeing pop up again and again.
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@BrokenSouI said:
Cool. Now write about dead hard, unbreakable/unboonable, bt
I am a killer main. I know those perks suck and terrible, but so much has already been said about by other, smarter killer mains that I don't feel like I could add anything to the discussion. On the other hand, I have noticed a surprising lack of post talking about NOED from a Killer's Perspective so I decided to make this post.
Since you asked, my opinions are the following:
- Dead Hard is a perk that should, at the least, not have I-frames
- Unbreakable is fine
- BT should be base kit because it just makes Solo Q less painful and I already play like everyone has it
- Circle of Healing needs to, at the least, lose the self healing aspect
- Boons as a whole need to be reworked as most of them are too weak from a survivor's perspective and too time consuming from a killer's perspective
I don't think any of those opinions are too shocking or are worth discussion outside of the BT one.
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@DrDeepwound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996931#Comment_2996931
What I find the most hilarious about it is these big streamers who do the win streaks.... they will make a video telling you noed is bad, then when they do their streak vid for YT, they say stuff like "well gotta tunnel and use noed for the win streak bros!"
And everybody cheers
*CROWD ROARS*
Who are you talking about? The only big streamers that I know who do those challenges tend to steer away from NOED as, once again, it is not a good perk for winning a game, it just a good perk for securing a kill. I am just legitmatly wondering who you are talking about.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I just hope it can still be used in endgame builds. Because it's not always used by noobs.
An idea I had was to make it so that you can't escape until you do some glyphs that spawn in the match. The amount needed to be done would depend on how many survivors left and there would be more spawned than needed to be done to prevent camping of the needed glyph.
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@DrDeepwound said:
NOED has been nerfed numerous times into the weak hex it is.
Can you imagine how these current survs would deal with old NOED that was not tied to a hex?
LOL
I don't know what you are smoking by NOED is not a weak hex.
Unlike Devour Hope, you can't destroy it before its effects come into play unless you find and destroy all five totems.
You get the ability to insta down survivors and make it impossible to save someone if you are camping someone. If you are camping someone near the hex, that person is dead.
NOED is not a good perk because it only comes into play at the very end of the game where you have usually already lost but it is still very strong within that context.
This is also ignoring the fact that NOED is boring to go up against. There is no build of dread like with Devour Hope, no regret like with haunted grounds, the feeling I get when I go up against NOED is disappointment.
As a killer main, I am used to survivors complaining about things that are completely fine (Look at what they did to my baby boy Wraith!). NOED is something they are right about. This post was about tackling why I hate this perk as a killer main.
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@tippy2k2 said:
You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.
God I love this Copypasta
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Boon: Eye in the Sky
When in the range of the boon,
- Aura reading perks have +X meters.
- Killer Aura is revealed for 5 second after hitting a survivor
When the killer destroys the boon, their aura is revealed for 5 seconds
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2980489#Comment_2980489
Its also the only second chance perk killers have
No, It is not a second chance perk. There are no second chance perks because unlike survivors, killers don't have a set amount of hooks before they are removed from the game. Survivors have to worry about dying, killers need to worry about running out of gens.
The closest thing that Killer has to a second chance perk would be No Way Out, but that perk requires you to hook multiple survivors and does not help you if you fail to hook anyone.
NOED is not a second chance perk because it does not undo a mistake a killer made, it instead gives killer such a powerful tool for no real reason.
It also is bad for new killers because it does not teach them how to pressure gens correctly or how to manage chases.
Every single highly skilled killer that I know considers NOED to be a Perk that is bad for the games health along with being bad for the killer player's development.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2979744#Comment_2979744
Noed punishes survivors for not doing bones
It does, but that is still stupid. No survivor gets a warning that NOED is in play until it happens, so its more like getting yelled at by your boss for not doing something that you were never told to do.
If NOED is a slow down perk, it is a terrible one. Besides, most killers that run it just use it as a way to get a kill rather than any genius plot to get survivors to have to bones.
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DH is broken in the sense that it is too strong. If used incorrectly, it can still buy a couple of seconds. If used correctly, it can be another health state.
NOED is broken because it is just bad design. It punishes survivors for getting all gens done and rewards the killer for doing nothing. Combine this with the fact that you have to do a totem that can spawn in a dead zone and you get a way to secure a free kill for nothing.
The only time I even consider using NOED is a full end game build, and even then I prefer to use something like Fire up or Blood Warden .
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One of the most annoying parts of DBD design is the fact that survivor teams are, on average, bad. This makes killers that are weak but have a couple of strengths that are good against solo q seem very powerful when they are not.
Wraith is a good example of this. Against a competent team, his lack of chase power is devastating. However since, most survivors don't know how to loop correctly (I don't blame them for this, looping is very hard to learn) this lack of chase power does not really come up.
Wraith did not get nerfed because he was powerful, he got nerfed because the average survivor team could not deal with him. It also did not help that all of the freddy mains who just abused the lack of bt moved over to wraith for their camping and tunneling needs.
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Freddy by far. At least with Hag, you can have some stupid but fun builds using some of her addons. Freddy has nothing to work with for fun builds.
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@dugman said:
What is this thread even trying to say? That survivors should be aware that killers run perks? I don’t get it.
I originally made another thread for survivor perks that killers need to watch out for that got removed because I mentioned some leaked content (I forgot that was a rule). The main point was that survivors need to worry about less perks than killers because Killers can only bring 4 perks and most of them are easy to figure out if you are paying attention.
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@dugman said:
There are additional things you can do about flashlights other than look at a wall
- Don’t pick up a downed survivor instantly, listen and scan the surroundings if you’re in the open for signs of another survivor. If there is one, slug the downed person and chase the person waiting nearby, you’ve now secured two people not doing gens for the price of one.
- When you go to pick the person up, go over them and turn a 180 before picking up, that usually will force any survivor hoping for a save to try and run all the way around you for the blind which makes it a lot harder for them to land it.
- And just generally be liberal with slugging. You don’t need to hook everybody right away after a down, and in fact a better strategy in a lot of cases is slug one person so you can chase a second and then only do the hook when you’re sure you’ve got at least two or three survivors distracted.
I follow these rules already, and in most cases flashlights are not a problem. But when you combine playing a killer that can't handle groups well with a map that great for flashlights with an entire team of survivors with flashlights and anti-slugging perks, you end up being miserable. It is the worst lottery to win, a bunch of factors coming to screw the killer over.
That being said, I do think your advice is definitely useful in every other use case where the stars don't align to screw the killer over.
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@fulltonon said:
The only actually stupid aspect of flashlight is probably double locker save, anything else is stupid in a way but still fine.
Oh god I forgot about that. Yeah that is completely broken.
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@TruEternity said:
This is an incredibly stupid take, sorry. That last paragraph is a huge problem with the community in general. Survivors who play optimally with strong perks are toxic, yet killers who do the same are just doing it to get by. That is not the case at all realistically, and there are a lot of experienced players who will tell you that. Whichever side brings the strongest builds and plays the most efficient with no care for the other side will generally win.
“Survivors” are not the reason there is some perceived toxicity, just because someone played a way you dislike does not make it toxic. Not addressing core game issues for years and bandaiding said issues with perks is the main problem in game balance. Instead of addressing core design issues, let’s pick a side and blame the other for the core issues with the game, productive.
This would be true if survivor perks and killer perks were equivalent to each other, but they are not with one very noticeable exception. When looking at the most powerful killer perks, almost all of them require some sort of activation clause, in most cases a hook. The four that don't are Ruin, Undying, Devour Hope, and Corrupt Intervention. Three of them can be disabled before they do anything if the killer is unlucky and the fourth only effects the early game. NOED is a blatant exception to this rule as it lets a killer down someone for free but even it can be disabled. The most meta killer build robs the survivor of their agency less than the most meta survivor build.
The main reason why I still think the survivor side is to blame for the games balance problems (not the actual players, the tools they have at their disposal), is that killers have to play the game like everyone has those perks. Every survivor is running DH until they use another exhaustion perk, every survivor has DS so you have to wait it out unless you want to get hit.
Then there also the problem that the survivor's base kit is better than the killer base kit. When this imbalance comes into play, it is maddening. A good example of this is body blocking. Its a mechanic that goes directly against the "unstoppable force" fantasy of the killer. Is it broken? No. Is it balanced? Yeah. Is it incredibly frustrating when it happens? Also yes
The problem isn't that a particular survivor was mean and started a chain reaction, its more so that the survivor side has tools that make playing killer too stressful.
The reason why I think this distinction matters is because BHVR tends to focus on killers rather than survivors when it comes to changes. Legion got reworked instead Deep Wound, Cenobite got his addons nerfed rather than improving the communication of solo Q.
I do agree with you, that people who play survivors are not to blame and that the source of toxicity is fundamental core problems that need to be addressed but most of those core issues are about the survivor side.
Solo Q is pain, SWF are too strong, all of the second chance perks, all of the exhaustion perks, and etc. While there are killers that definetly need a look at (cough Spirit cough ), most of what needs to be fixed is on the survivor side of things.
And some of those things that need to happen is things like making Kindred basekit or even BT basekit. Honestly, I think a possible approach to fixing alot of DBD problems is raise the floor of what both sides have.
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Sprint Burst on killers would just be so broken. Just picture a bubba dashing at you, chainsaw ready to rip you in half.
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@Phasmamain said:
Clown has a horn he can honk on command
Instant Top Tier Killer
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Here are some survivor perks themed around the original three killers and vice-versa
Survivor
Not Yet: You are a dead man, but you refuse to let others fall into the entity's grasp.
When you are downed, you stay moving for an extra second before collapsing. However, you can't escape from the gates or the hatch or recover for 10 seconds afterwards and have your aura revealed. This time is extended by 5 seconds if you took a protection hit for someone. When moving, being hit again sends you straight into the dying state.
Get out of here, NOW! - Evan Macmillan
Unwilling Witness: You have seen things you were not meant to see, and refuse to let the truth die with you.
Any aura revealed to you is revealed to other survivors within a 24 meter radius. Any time an aura reading perk is activated by either you or the killer, you gain a token. Each token increases the radius of Unwilling Witness by 1 meter up to 32 meters and increases unhook speed by 1% per token up to 25%
People mistake me being quiet for me being ignorant. I wish that were true. - Philip Ojomo
Gears and Grease: Working with machines is dirty work, but you would not have it any other way.
When on a generator, you will face constant skill checks at all times with both the penalty of failure and the benefits of success being reduced by half.
Completing a Gen gives you 20% healing progress.
You leave a trail of oil behind you.
Look Miss, my job is to get this tractor here working, not look good doing it. - Max Thompson Jr.
Killer
Hurdles: At the end of the day, all those around you are just in the way of your goal, hurdles to be jumped over.
You can now cancel your missed swing animation with the vault animation or the pallet breaking animation. This suppresses your red light for 3 seconds. Hurdles has a cool-down of 30 seconds.
I would say I am sorry for this, but I need to win. - Meg Thomas
Hex: Overgrowth: Vines and their ability to strangle the life out of other plants become a source of inspiration.
Every time a survivor heals, gain one stack of Overgrowth. Once you reach 10 stacks of Overgrowth, Two Hexes is created and the tokens are consumed.
These hexes' aura is revealed to all survivors. As long as the hex is active, the following effects apply:
- Survivors cannot fast vault
- Vaulting is 10% slower
- Survivors repair, open gate, and sabotage 50% slower
Cleansing one hex removes the effect, but Overgrowth can activate multiple times in a trial. If there is only one totem left in the match when Overgrowth activates, then there is not repair penalty.
You have to admit, the parasitic nature of this plant is fascinating, especially on humans. - Claudette Morel
Modern Times: Morality is thing of the old world, all that matters now is numbers and profit.
Modern Times gains a stack anytime you hook a survivor you have not hooked before.
Once you gain 3 stacks, the stacks are consumed and every survivor that you hooked gains a hook state. Modern Times now reveals itself to all survivors and they gain a 20% increase in gen speeds. During this time, every time you hook a survivor you gain a stack.
Once you gain 5 stacks, every survivor becomes exposed and can be killed when downed.
I know from your perspective, this is all madness. But this madness is very, very profitable. - Dwight Fairfield
Off-Putting: Your presence can only be described as off, like something just slightly inhuman.
Your Terror Radius is no longer centered on you but rather centered on were you were 3 seconds ago.
"I think there is someone wrong with your child."
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@CluelessWanderer said:
- We shouldn't have to lose our entire inventory.
- If they insist on wiping our inventory/perks, and we grind to do it 3 times, at the very least remove trash brown items from our blood webs. For example, if someone is full prestige, do we really need "instructions" as an add on on a tool box so we don't get skill checks for all of 5 seconds?
If they are going to wipe everything we have, I think they should at least give some sort of refund.
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Ultra Rare The Nemesis Add-on
Iridescent Weapon Case: An empty weapon case, reminding the Nemesis of both of its benefactors: Its creators and the Entity.
Tentacle Strike can now hit multiple things in one swing.
Ultra Rare the DEathslinger Add-on
Bloodstained Canteen: A canteen stained with the blood of a hellshire gang member who helped the wrong man. A reminder to distrust those who seem innocent.
Any survivor who takes a protection hit for some who is being reeled is downed.
very Rare the Trickster Add-on
Neon Knifes: A gift from an adoring fan, almost as good as their screams. Almost.
Blades now leave a tracer line behind them.
Survivors now take an extra blade to down
Survivors cannot see their own laceration meter
Ultra Rare The Trapper Add-on
Otherworldly Plans: A detailed blueprint describing something out of this world. All that is know is that it fills the Trapper, Evan, with purpose.
Survivors who step in bear traps and are downed are teleported by the entity to the nearest hook.
When someone steps in a bear trap, the Trapper becomes undetectable.
There is no escape for either of us. So get comfy, if you even can. - Evan MacMillan
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@Salvador578 said:
500k Bloodpoints or 1000-2000 Iridescent Shards (not both)
I think an even better benefit could be a passive blood point increase for each survivor and killer prestiged.
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@Mazoobi said:
I appreciate the effort and thought put into this, but I find it unnecessary to implement a new mechanic for boons when CoH is the sole reason for the boon rage.
Exponential and Dark Theory are already underwhelming already so a charge system would hurt their already low viability. An argument can be made for DT in conjunction with Shadow Step, but even then, this change would hurt a possible meta-changing combo. Don't we all want to see the meta change and see a bit more diversity?
The idea is that these changes would let you buff those two perks a little bit without making them too strong. Dark Theory could make fast faults easier and Exponential could stop a killer from picking you up for a couple of seconds. It also gives more room to create new boons and make them fair.
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@ukenicky said:
Blood Echo is fine. It's strong on Legion and Plague who can keep multiple survivors injured easily.
I think the only reason it has a cooldown is because the exhaustion lasts for 45 seconds. That's a LONG time. If it had absolutely no cooldown at all it might get out of control.
@Jplanas98 said:
Blood Echo is actually pretty good on Plague. The counter to Plague is to just stay infected, so if survivors stay infected Blood Echo will always be guaranteed to work, and you won't have to worry about exhaustion perks for the next 45 seconds if you get in a chase.
Even if it does work on these killers, the opportunity cost of not bringing a better perk is the main problem. Why bring Blood Echo when I can bring thanatophobia or no way out.
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@TommoWasHere said:
This ain't easy but I'll try...
Killer: The Tormented Lumberjack
Power: Rites of the Chainsaw.
Open the Gates of Suffering and be judged! The Chainsaw splits the ground, giving rise to an infernal construct and spreading agony to all who approach.
Hold the power button to rev the Chainsaw. Once fully charged, break into a Judgement Sprint and carve trails in your path and go though any obstacle. Survivors hit by a Judgement Sprint are put into the dying state. Survivors who walk or run on the trail are afflicted with Tormented. Tormented works as it does usually.
Perks:
Enduring the Trail of Torment
When stunned, recover 50% faster and gain the undetectable status effect until you break the pallet.
Force the Light to Burn
When blinded by a flashlight, the survivor is afflicted with the Broken Status effect for 90 seconds and aura is revealed for 10 seconds.
Tinkerer-bound
When a generation is 70% completely, it triggers a loud noise notification. Any survivor working on it will scream, revealing their location and be Oblivious for 60 seconds.
Sorry I didn't include the survivor part, way to hard for me. And I did not feel like making a backstory, but still this was a lot of fun.
The fun is what is all about :)