AmpersandUnderscore

If it's truly a server issue disconnecting all players, then the disconnect icon usually shows up for each person as if they disconnected.

If you're actually disconnecting regularly, and others are also seeing you disconnect, there may be something on your end that is interrupting the connection instead, and it might not be a server issue.

in Why are server shutdowns pictured as the killer's fault? Everyone thinks I keep DC'ing. Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 17, 2024

@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762106#Comment_3762106
Because Wraith can only pressure one survivor at once? Knight can do two.
But I can't even blame Knights for doing this because BHVR just stripped his kit raw of anything except gen denial, so how else are they supposed to play? If nothing else, everyone complaining about horrible stall games with new Knight might get them to look at him again in another 6 months instead of leaving the killer broken in a corner.

So instead of trying to play Knight in new ways, even if that learning process is unsuccessful or just switching to a different character, the answer is to hold games hostage? Again?

If people try new things that don't work, it'll show in kill rate stats and BHVR will be more likely to 'fix' whatever people are unhappy with. Because it's clearly unsuccessful.

If people switch killers, it'll show up in pick rate stats and BHVR will be more likely to notice.

So by holding games hostage, knight players are both boosting pick rates and kill rates, and sending BHVR the message that everything is ok.

This is the exact wrong way to go about asking for changes.

in Oppression Buff + Knight's 2x Banner Spawn Multiplier is Making 3-Gens a Nightmare Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 17, 2024

I'm not particularly interested in 2v8 personally, but hopefully it's fun for the people who are excited about it.

I'm glad it's only a limited time mode though, that should give it some novelty before a hard 2v8 meta emerges.

Although, I think the reality of the game mode could be interesting. Now everyone can experience 'the worst part of the game is my teammate'.

in Did 2vs8 look a little hard to anyone else? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 17, 2024

You're dropping chase, and, in your own words, you're dropping several chases in the same match.

Exhaustion perks are already pretty limited: they don't stack, and you can't regain exhaustion in chase.

So by dropping chase, you're doing the only thing that allows the perk to recharge. If you're dropping chase 'because of map' rng, then pallets are consumable and you can use them up, but you have to chase the survivor for that to happen. Most pallets on newer maps are total garbage and can be played around or even just ignored.

You're not using up survivor resources, and you're not committing to chase, so what are you waiting for? The survivor to throw a pallet while you're not around? Maybe sneak up on them or they'll let you get a free hit?

It sounds like you're just guarding gens, which are not your objective. It's the killer role, not "saboteur".

in I hate these games... Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 16, 2024

It'll be forgotten about immediately, and won't change slugging for the 4k in the slightest.

in Soon no dead zones that would negate hooking, how are we Killers feeling?! Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 16, 2024

At least on the forums here, if the new chapter isn't bringing an S+ level killer and at least one meta defining perk the devs are going to get nothing but incessant complaints. And the entity help them if they change (nerf) literally anything after the chapter release, or even the ptb.

I think people either have zero concept of what "power creep" means, or just don't care. Especially since about 80% of the posts on this forum can be summed up by the phrase "buff me, nerf them".

in Why are new killers and their perks so powerful? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 16, 2024

@jesterkind said:
I don't think there's a particularly huge issue with gen efficiency at the moment, no. I do think that toolboxes are unbalanced, but that is kind of its own thing, not related to gen efficiency.
You're asking for some advice in the original post, so I figure I might as well post some of my own. Generator efficiency on the survivor side is something that your minute-to-minute goal as a killer is to interrupt: Basic, bread-and-butter good killer gameplay involves spreading pressure by occupying multiple survivors at once. The most straightforward and broadly applicable example I can give is to imagine the following:
One survivor is on a hook, you're chasing another survivor, and a third survivor peels off their generator to go get the save. For the duration of this situation, you only have one survivor on generators, bringing their overall efficiency down by a whopping 75%. It doesn't last very long, but it's repeatable and effective. If you manage to get that down before someone actually gets the save, you're in an even better position.
This general concept can be expanded out in a multitude of ways. Some killers - quite a few, these days - have side objectives in their power that can occupy even that fourth survivor with good play; Pig, for example, can have everyone off gens if she's good at keeping up chase pressure, because the fourth survivor who would be on gens might be searching a box instead.
It doesn't require those side objectives, though. If you're playing a stealth killer (or you're gambling a little on a stealth build), you can force survivors to heal for fear of being oneshot out of nowhere, as another example. You can run a full-hex build to keep survivors looking for totems, though that has the risk of backfiring if they find totems before you get the ball rolling. You can combine both, if you feel nasty!
I'll break this down into a few bullet points so I'll stop being so wordy:
Your job is to occupy multiple survivors and damage their gen efficiency
You do this by forcing them to act on something that isn't generators- for example, saves, healing, totems, side objectives in a power, etc
You also need to learn the win conditions and strengths of your killer, and what risks they can afford to take; Blight and Billy have the mobility to spend searching areas or crossing the map, some other killers don't
To that end, I wouldn't recommend stacking slowdown, and would heavily recommend information. Getting into chases quicker AND knowing which gens are being worked on + what survivors are doing is crucial for playing the macro game effectively
Chase perks that mitigate certain resources can be useful too, if your chases are too long
Killers, currently, have a HUGE toolbox to rummage around in and a lot of viable methods of getting work done. It's just a case of figuring out what works for you, what perks complement your strengths and shore up your weaknesses, and what your killer is capable of, all while remembering that generator efficiency is something you are meant to disrupt, not exclusively your perks.

Exactly this.

I'll also add that a disturbingly large number of posts complaining about gen speeds are also the same people who insist that tunneling is 'required' or 'the only way to play killer'.

Tunneling is also the exact opposite pressure situation until that first survivor is dead: you have one survivor occupied, and occasionally one going for save. But the other 2, and usually the third/rescuer as well, are largely left to do whatever they want (spoiler: it's gens).

This is also the situation early game before building any pressure (winning first chase).

So I typically see the loudest voices for 'gen speed issues' are ones that either struggle to finish chases quickly, apply consistent map pressure, or usually both at the same time.

Similarly, tunneling is one of the strategies that artificially inflates/boosts your MMR. So people are likely to be up against opponents who are above their skill level as well, which makes both establishing pressure and maintaining pressure even harder when all you know how to do is tunnel and camp.

in Gen Efficiency has become a really big problem in DBD, has anybody else felt it? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 16, 2024

@tubalcane said:
You've already been given:
Perks to handle this
Basekit Borrowed Time
Basekit Anti-Camp mechanic
Anti-Camp mechanic
No longer able to insta-grab survivors who are trying to rescue
An exorbitant amount of time on hook to move from one hook state to the next (enough time between states for single survivors to finish a gen if a killer wastes time)

If this isn't enough, with all due respect, please try a different game.
Sometimes one player just might have to die while the other survivors finish gens as a killer stupidly camps you. They can choose to finish gens and put the killer into a dilemma - "do i keep waiting here for them to rescue, or are they finishing gens?…damn ive been here so long now and he's almost dead but if i run now and leave him i may have lost all that time on hook camping just to have the survivor rescued?"

Sometimes it's a good AND PERFECTLY VIABLE AND ACCEPTABLE strategy to camp if you have altruistic survivors who think they are smarter than the killer and can be lured into injuries while trying to save.
These are all intentional mechanics of the game, and just a part of the trade-offs and risks of any game theory/prisoner dilemma-like decisions that should be in any time limited game.

Since this comes up every. Single. time… there is no "anti camp" mechanic.

It's anti-FACE camping. Killers can, and easily do, proxy camp with no issues.

in Camping solutions Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 15, 2024

@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759761#Comment_3759761
if self-care is allowed to exist as infinity slow healing, COH should exist as well.
No, there is difference if it works on 1 survivor or on whole group. That would be We'll make it, Self-care and Empathy for all survivors in one perk…. Just no

You would have any survivor running there and just start healing, everyone else can see them and just go there finish it faster if they are nearby or keep working on gens and let them self-heal.
This would be stronger than prenerfed version.
their poorly constructed killer changes on killer side is a killer issue
There is definetly no need to make those issues even worse.

All of the complaints about team self care for one perk are completely solved by:

Having Circle of healing equipped is what enables the survivor to self care in any circle of healing boon.

There. If you want 4 survivors to self care in a boon, everyone has to run the perk. And it's no longer a complete waste of a perk for solo q anymore.

in Circle of Healing Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 15, 2024

@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759739#Comment_3759739
Would buffing m1 killers to 120% be broken? I think this is a fair valid question.

We heard nothing but complaining for months that a 3% movement speed increase completely breaks the game.

So no, 120% would not be a good idea.

in I don't think the gen rush problem can't be adressed Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 15, 2024

I feel like bringing survivors back from the dead is something the game should never do. (Or at least, shouldn't do in a match, they go to the campfire in the lore every time) That's too far for regular gameplay, though I guess a temporary game mode could be interesting for a couple weeks.

Donating a hook stage to a shared pool might be an option, but I don't think the price tag of an invocation is worth even that.

Though admittedly it's hard to come up with anything remotely balanced that would be worth paying that steep a cost. They came out of the gate swinging with gen progress, which is arguably the strongest effect or could've had, and it was/is still considered a killer perk.

in Invocation perks reviving sacrificed Survivors Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 13, 2024

@danielmaster87 said:
The killer could see the survivors' auras all match, and the game would still be fun. So I'm sure that this perk's limitations, when compared to that scenario, are fine as is. Why don't you just pick up the item or move it somewhere else? It's that easy.

I'm pretty sure people said something similar about old object, but the reality is that constant, consistent aura reading has already been shown to have a drastic impact on the game.

Let's call a duck a duck here. Moving an item is just free slowdown for the killer, more so when it's someone else's item. And on some maps, it's not exactly easy. Good luck figuring out on which floor the solo Claudette dropped her medkit and where it is. And on a shoe box map like midwich, there's nowhere you can just drop it in a corner that isn't also a playable area.

in Weave Attunement + Franklin's Demise = 0 Fun Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 12, 2024

@Neaxolotl said:
I think next biggest fix would be removal of hook suicide, and probably UI changes to show perks of other survivors
I don't see any other things they could do, radio chat maybe, but then it can be used for toxicity
Hell, I don't even think free bond/kindred will break the game, SWF does that as is

Why do people keep insisting that removing the 4% is going to do anything at all?

If someone doesn't want to play the game, they can't be forced into playing. Instead of hook suicide, they will stand afk, point at a hook, follow the killer, throw every pallet on the map, make noise notifications incessantly, or just sit on a gen and miss every skill check.

Removing ways to speed up hook stages is just treating a symptom. It doesn't actually solve anything, because the core reasons people want out are still there.

The only way to fix it is to look at why people want out. Are some of those reasons petty or trivial? Yeah, you can't fix all of them. But let's at least look at why the game is no longer fun, or worth playing for a lot more people than it used to be.

Maybe it's not worth getting 5k BP for a ton of people to the first one found in a lot of games. Increasing BP gains is a completely harmless and non game balancing way that could have an impact, without nerfing anything at all.

in Do you believe that SoloQ are getting improved? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 11, 2024

@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757223#Comment_3757223
Drop item in an empty corner now the perks do almost nothing. Why/how is that "not counterplay"?

When circle of healing was actually meta, the counterplay was to snuff it.

That's also base kit, and takes you out of the way of the action. Killers swore that it took minutes to go deal with and was a huge waste of time (for survivors, that's called slowdown).

I also have no control over my teammates, so I can repeatedly drop an item in the corner, or not bring one at all, and still be completely screwed because my teammate dropped something in main, and I have no way to communicate that. It's also likely too late by the time I find out it's even there, too.

Not to mention that the survivor item is the closest equivalent to the killer's power. Do you not think that, if survivors had a perk that forced the killer to avoid using their power most of the match that would somehow not be a problem?

in I'm confused by weave attunement opinions Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 10, 2024

I can't really agree with this reasoning here.

The kill rate is largely independent from other factors that cause people to disconnect or give up, for example.

The devs could theoretically make the kill rate as high as they wanted as long as the core gameplay is fun overall.

But the fun is what we're losing now, or rather, we've been losing steadily for about two years now. Every patch is supposedly "bringing balance" to the game, but it's also driving the core gameplay to be more competitive. For survivors, a >50% kill rate means you're going to likely lose, but if the gameplay was actually fun, then even losing is a fun experience.

The game used to have that: even losing games could be fun.

Now, it's still the fact that you're going to lose sometimes, but the gameplay, the process of losing, is just one big competitive slog. Even some wins suck for that same reason.

And that's true regardless of if you play killer or survivor.

in Breaking down the facts: Killers are massively overpowered and the grim numbers aren't even telling Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 10, 2024

@DrBrain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757183#Comment_3757183
Current gen times are 90 seconds. Thats be fine in itself if this game was not a MMR matchmaking system and had a server list with open lobbies to hop in and out of to do pub matches. Im sure you are aware of this factor but once you reach top rank on Killer your experience in the high mmr meta is the gen rush 4 man comps. Now I am not against this or complaining specifically about this but lets do math. If say we look at the gen times chart for the amount of survivors on a gen without any perks or toolboxes we can see that just one extra person takes it from 90 seconds to 52.94 with a -15% efficiency penalty. However. Lets add in toolboxes and gen perks that remoce the penalty entirely. Just 1 survivor with gen perks and a toolbox and another without reduces the time to nearly 29 seconds. Put 3 survivors on it with at least 1 toolbox and 1 player with full party gen perks and you are looking at an easy 20 second gen. We are talking a drastic reduction in time. Your average Killer run times against competent players at high MMR is looking around 45 to 60 seconds if you do not get a lucky spotting and/or the comp team makes a mistake early on(which can 100% be corrected mid to late game).

if you run 1 player and down his within 60-80 seconds no matter how much pressure you apply. Without corrupt intervention on and without other gen slowdown perks for kicking or blocking you easily are looking at 2 gens minimum done within that timeframe(without deadlock which is slowly working its way to possible base kit status if we do not get corrupt intervention).

at this current time the only solution for high end MMR is to tunnel hard the first man out within 100 seconds minimum or face a 4 gen done deal unless you run a 4 perk gen block/slowdown build. Slugging comes second to this massive glaring problem. I havent even touched upon the 3 gen base kit kick blocks now that stop you from defending 3 gens permanently…

therefore, make Corrupt Intervention base kit just like Borrowed Time is now and the blocking of 3 gen meta us now. There is zero excuse not to do this and would completely make killers not hyper focused on tunneling out the first man they see as often as it is now. Killers are in a state of 1 strategy mode, tunneling. With slugging being the meme strat. This needs to change. It starts with gen speed and works it way down.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7TQJR5N7PKDA/img-5833.jpeg

There is zero excuse not to do this and would completely make killers not hyper focused on tunneling out the first man they see as often as it is now

There is literally nothing stopping a killer from tunneling with or without corrupt right now. And we have tons of evidence (gen kick and 3 gen metas for a year) that even given infinite match duration, killers will still tunnel. In fact, the evidence says people will tunnel *more*, which is exactly what happened when BHVR allowed killers to determine the length of the match.

If you think that slowing down the early game for the killer, for free no less, is going to reduce tunneling you have no idea what you're talking about at this point.

in Corrupt intervention should be base kit by now Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 10, 2024

So after years of screaming, crying, tantrums, threats, and whining you're telling me...

That now killers *prefer* to stand directly behind a survivor until they push one button?

NOW, you want to 'just wait it out'?

in Return of hook grab mechanic Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 9, 2024

@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756412#Comment_3756412
We have video proof of how rare tunneling is in this thread

So let me see if I can sum up the forums here generally. Tunneling is:

A "strategy", that you can't touch without severely reducing, if not completely removing any "play style options" for the killer.
The most efficient and effective way to remove one player from the game, and may actually be the most effective way to outright win the game as killer.
Completely mandatory in "high MMR" or against any SWF.
The "only way to win" in some cases: just look at competitive DBD!
Tunneling has been meta since the game came out.
Removing tunneling would require insanely heavy killer buffs, or gen speeds would need to be severely nerfed for killers to "keep up".

But somehow, it's "rare" and "nobody ever tunnels" despite these being the responses in nearly every thread on these forums?

Come on.

in You don't get tunnelled frequently. You are just biased. Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 9, 2024

@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3755069#Comment_3755069
BGP is far from useless. Even without a flashlight or toolbox, it's also good for pallet saves. Yet you're the one accusing people of being disingenuous while simultaneously spouting nonsense like that.

I'm sorry, what?

I said it's useless unless you combo it with something, and your response is 'you can use it with pallets'. That counts as something.

in Still no plans to nerf weave attunement? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 9, 2024

@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756306#Comment_3756306
Usually when people say "killer is ez mode" someone just asks them to play killer, pass the winnings of the baby pool and then see how easy they have it when they go against competent survivors.
For some reason, none of them came back with a winning streak.

I stopped playing survivor consistently a month or two after sm release. When I do play now, it's exclusively killer, though I pay the game far, far less than I used to.

I win the majority of my games. And most games aren't even close. That's been over a year, and the game balance has been steadily increasing killer kill rates over that time.

But I don't generally tunnel or camp. I want to have a fun game, and hopefully the survivors do too. I really on map pressure, game sense and game knowledge to play, and that gives me enough of a lead that I don't have to sweat. In games where I can usually tell it's solo q, I often have to back off and kick pallets or just watch them to allow a reset so they feel like they have a chance.

On the off chance that I do get a 'sweaty gen rushing SWF' ok then, I usually still win, but here's the most important part: I don't have a tantrum and cry about it when I lose a game every so often.

The game balance has been going steadily in a direction that is both causing more kills per game on average, and it's decidedly more competitive.

So I have basically no interest in playing survivor any time at all in the near future. Why would anyone want to play a role where the gameplay becomes less fun every patch in the name of 'balance' and it also simultaneously means you are dying more.

Survivor is already at a point where 'well, you're supposed to lose the game by design, but at least the gameplay is awful the whole time you're losing'.

in Do people actually think Survivor has no big issues? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 8, 2024

@CrypticGirl said:
I'm really struggling to understand how people thought Lights Out was unbalanced. We had...
No loadout for either side = balanced.
No scratch marks for Killer and no terror radius for Survivors = balanced.
Killers couldn't say, "I lost because Survivors had Dead Hard or [insert all other annoying Survivor perks here]," while Survivors couldn't say, "I lost because the Killer had NOED or [insert all other annoying Killer perks here]" = balanced.
How would they balance that mode if all that didn't make it balanced?
So far Lights Out has been my favorite modifier, but I guess I'm in the minority. My Little Oni was absolutely miserable for Survivors. Chaos Shuffle was...okay. I'd have to be in the mood to try out different builds to play it. I also wonder why people thought Chaos was so fun while also saying that it amplified the flaws in both roles. It was fun despite people believing they can't survive without gen regression or second-chance perks, but the fact they found it fun already disproves that belief.
As for 2v8, I honestly don't see it being fun for the long-term, but I'll be willing to try it when it comes out. I'll see how much I like it then.

Tunneling is base kit. It was also incentivized by not having any way to locate survivors after the hook and you couldn't tell if the killer was waiting near the hook (he was).

Anti tunneling is entirely perk related and was completely disabled. Similarly, gen rushing is impossible without both perks and items, so this game mode was basically 'what if we giga buffed tunneling and survivors had no way to counter it'.

in Why 2v8 should be permanent Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 7, 2024

I feel like we need to make it more clear to some killer players that applying map pressure means leaving a hook instead.

Because, from your own description, you went back to hook where you know there were two survivors, you got two downs in under 60 seconds, and you're asking for nerfs?

They had the exact one thing that could save them in that scenario, which, since this is a hot topic too right now, took two perk slots, gen and locker time, and player timing to pull off. And even that assumes you didn't slug both of them before hand.

If they didn't have that exact setup, the killer should just get two hooks in under a minute for leashing back to the unhook instantly? We have no reason to make 'going back to hook' even more rewarding than it already is.

in can we make flashlight saves a conspicuous action? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 6, 2024

Or just get rid of the lobby entirely, which would cut down on people lobby shopping. Let's be honest for a second, that's all this would do is cause killers to dodge anything they don't want to play against for easy games.

I'm not opposed to showing grouped players on the end game screen, though. That doesn't impact getting a game, and I think it would be eye opening to people who think they're up against 'sweaty 4 man SWF' every match they lose.

in Game should give me an Indicator when I'm facing a premade Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 6, 2024

I don't know that we have an answer from the devs directly about MMR on this, but we do know that games with a disconnect/bot aren't included when they tally kill rates.

The claim that you were 'skyrocketed' after that match isn't correct though. Even if the bot counts toward MMR, it's going to be at most as much as a player, which is a minuscule amount, like less than 5 MMR out of 1900.

There's only very rarely going to be a perfectly matched game, even with MMR, so likely your next game you went against a team that was slightly better than you instead and you think you've 'hit cap'. That's what almost all of the 'max MMR' complaints on the forums are anymore.

in So I need to know should DCs count as kills Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 6, 2024

I understand the game engine can't really support these, but since I'm dreaming anyway:

Replay feature and a gameplay timeline in the end game that shows chase lengths, health state changes, gen completions with timestamps.

in If you could add ONE THING to the game, what would it be? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 5, 2024

@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754940#Comment_3754940
You’ve used it without Franklins to great effect?

The arguments of 'it takes two perk slots' and 'it only works in combo with one other perk' are completely disingenuous and irrelevant here.

Those same arguments applied to buckle up and background player and those perks were nerfed because the synergy was considered too strong. Background player is literally useless unless you combo it with something.

in Still no plans to nerf weave attunement? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 5, 2024

@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753899#Comment_3753899
I wouldn't say it's the only correct definition, but it definitely isn't a tunnel unless the killer commits hard to killing a single person. It should seem like the killer is very determined to kill one person, e.g. trying to find and kill them ASAP and ignoring other survivors. I'm going to disclose now that I tunnel frequently, so I know exactly what a tunneler thinks like. This is what tunnelling looks like. You can see that the first 2 survivors were hard tunnelled out of the game very quickly. Note that I uploaded this video long before I made this thread, so this is just normal gameplay for me.
https://youtu.be/5yReLf0tYog?si=faTtwwUCC2x1m5Pu
Just play the remaining 8 matches. I don't have time to watch another 15 matches.

Nothing is going to be a problem if you just define it out of existence.

If I say that 'gen rushing' is when the Pope himself flies in with a toolbox and completes all 5 generator by himself, then boom. That's never happened so clearly gen rushing isn't an issue.

in You don't get tunnelled frequently. You are just biased. Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 3, 2024

@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753436#Comment_3753436
It's also not really a rare thing to happen.
I can see survivor bodyblocking for injured survivor, but when they bodyblock for healthy survivor, they are going to die for it...

This is a pretty vague scenario though.

The killer going immediately back to hook on an unhook is going to look like an intention to tunnel no matter what.

Maybe the killer wants to go for the unhooker, but the survivors can't know that. And unless the killer is actually intending to tunnel, it's a pretty poor macro decision to say 'you know what, I could go interrupt these "super fast gens" and apply map pressure, but instead I'm gonna go after one of the two survivors I know for a fact are already doing something else.'

And the majority of the time, given the option between two health states and zero hook states (the unhooker) and two health states with endurance and at least one hook state, most people going back to hook are going to aim for getting someone out quickly.

Going back to hook is either 'I'm gonna tunnel' or 'i can't find anyone else, so I do as the unhook notification recommends'. It's impossible to know which, but either way, the options are:

Apply map pressure, interrupt gens (you aren't back at hook, so aren't tunneling)
Killer goes back to hook with the goal of getting someone out quickly (tunneling option)
The killer has no concept of macro gameplay, and is only going to hook to chase the unhooker.

I'm not sure why survivor should assume the killer is a bot triggered by unhook notifications, since that's the only option that puts the killer back at hook with the intention of playing sub optimally.

in Do you think this counts as tunnelling? Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 3, 2024

One of my most memorable games, which, for me perfectly sums up the gen kick meta:

Had a wraith hook Ada, walk over to my gen and kick it while I was standing a few feet away. He went immediately back to hook and let Eruption take care of the game for him. Ignored me completely, and I was just standing still watching him at the gen in plain view.

That match was completely destroyed by tunneling.

But if I was asked if I was tunneled, like Scott did in this poll, I'd say no. I wasn't even being chased, and that was deliberate. But that match was absolutely one where tunneling was the issue, it was my teammate, but that wasn't the question he asked here.

On the other hand, if people are seeing WoO or other perks that have about a 27% pick rate 'in every game', then it sounds like a 27% individual tunneling rate, as he defined it here, is at least very common as well.

in You don't get tunnelled frequently. You are just biased. Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 2, 2024

Just let people choose to bleed out faster after being slugged for a certain time. If I'm still slugged after recovering to 'find help' it's probably getting to be time to go next in most common situations.

in New Anti Slugging Mechanic Comment by AmpersandUnderscore July 1, 2024

@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752122#Comment_3752122
You feel entitled to the hatch. You let go of that and the problem is gone.
Survivors do have a choice, they chose to hide and prolong the game just as much as the killer does. At that point it's not even a 4K, the killer is just trying for a 3K that time and the hatch is already causing problems.
How is it the killers fault for trying to get a 4K when at that point they're just trying to get a 3K? The 4K is not even a factor yet. But hatch is still causing the survivors to hide indefinitely.
You're just spouting double standards. Everything is the killer's fault according to what you've said so far. Maybe stop villainizing the killer. That's what's really unhealthy here. Not trying to achieve what the game is asking you to achieve as a killer.
Also please put context where necessary. They would rather hook someone and get their 3rd kill and let that survivor move on then get the 4th without risking it to hatch.
You did earn the 4K. The only way that last survivor actually earned that escape was if the killer got the 3rd kill after the gens were done or close to it.

What kind of cherry picking comparison is this?

The survivor isn't dead, and not only sees, but is actively taking the only steps they have available to them to survive in this scenario.

Also, in your scenario, the killer has killed 3 of the 4 survivors, and your reaction is 'the 4th kill should be automatic', and the killer shouldn't have to do anything else to pursue it.

You're expecting the 4th kill to be handed to you because 'you've already put in 75% of the effort, just give me what's mine' or some crap.

in Ok, some people just go to too much effort for the 4k Comment by AmpersandUnderscore June 30, 2024

Sadly, this is merely a symptom of a much bigger problem.

Even if they completely remove methods of faster hook progress, survivors will go stand at a hook and point, follow the killer, make loud noises to get the killers attention, or some other method of getting out of the game quickly.

You can put a bandaid fix on the problem, but the core issue will remain: the game is becoming increasingly unfun for players.

That's subjective, sure, and people will always want out for petty or trivial reasons… but that's always been the case before this as well. So why is this problem seemingly getting worse? Why are people getting burned out much faster now?

I'm personally of the opinion that tunneling is too strong in a large number of these cases. It's far too easy now to get one player out of the game, so if you're unlucky enough to be found first, you simply don't get to play that match. That player gets next to nothing except wasted time, not even BP, and they're going to want to go next automatically.

Does that make it right to give up and go next? Nope, but let's try tackling the root cause of even one major reason this occurs. Because most of the band aid fixes people list will accomplish even less that that.

in Giving up on the first hook should come with a disconnect penalty. Comment by AmpersandUnderscore June 30, 2024

@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751967#Comment_3751967
"There's no counterplay!"
Offers counterplay
"Lol of course you offer counterplay! How typical!"
These forums in a nutshell - unnecessary Us vs Them

The 'suggested counterplay' in this thread is:

Voluntarily waste time dropping your item in the corner, so you have to waste more time later to go get it, just in case the killer runs this combo, or
Spend an extra perk slot to voluntarily show your aura to the killer, again even if this killer isn't running the perk.

Both of these have been complained about (and likely already nerfed I might add) by killers as 'unacceptable counters'.

Number 1 was the exact counter to boons (going out of your way to snuff) and that wasn't an acceptable counter... So much so that boons were effectively deleted from the game.

As for #2, object being considered a counter here is hilarious. The exact reason that 'old object' was considered too powerful is because it essentially always gave wall hacks, and it was nerfed because very consistent aura reading is not healthy for the game. So now the argument is that is that this aura reading is now only one sided it's supposedly ok? Just equip that perk and it'll function essentially like the old object? Old object and old MoM are considered some of the most broken things this game has ever had, so the power level were taking about here absolutely needs looked at for adjusting.

in Officially Distortion Comment by AmpersandUnderscore June 30, 2024

@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751475#Comment_3751475
I truly dislike seeing this argument being used to deflect, dissuade, and defend killers to their last breath, it's such an invalid, trivial statement to use.

Just because the game is supposed to be killer-sided, does not mean that the matches have to be absolutely miserable and every new killer added has to be able to steamroll survivors no matter what they do. The main focus is that 30/70, 40/60 split that the killers hold more than survivors do, but that scale has been FAR tipped to an extreme that makes playing survivor a living hell if you're not IN a SWF.

It's not so much the fact that Survivors have to lose something to win, it's the fact that Survivors are now ALWAYS losing. There's no fun or merit to a game where playing the opposite means getting crushed before you can even get started or getting snowballed with no way of turning the match around after.

I find it generally unhealthy to be on a constant losing streak to the point where you walk into a game and you expect to die before even completing the main task at hand. At that point, why play?

Do I expect to die? Absolutely. You're not guaranteed to win as a Survivor, that's never been the case.

But as of late, especially in the event, it's become FAR too easy for the killer side to just get hooks and kills before survivors even pop a single gen, and that's if the killer doesn't just smack it with PGTW or P-Res

The maps, save for some places, have little to do with the general misery of Survivors.

This here.

I'll also add that, in theory, the devs could make the kill rate whatever they wanted as long as the core gameplay is fun.

But lately, the game direction has seemingly been to both change the game to increase kill rates, and also make the game less fun.

And to be clear, these statement aren't for one side or the other: both killers and survivors appear to dislike playing every single game competitively. Yet that's been the overall game direction steadily for about two years now.

Unfortunately, for survivors at least, this means that the core gameplay isn't generally fun, but also you should expect to lose most of the time as well. That doesn't seem like a healthy direction for the game to go, in my opinion.

in Game becomes more and more killer sided Comment by AmpersandUnderscore June 30, 2024

Well, first things first is there is no 'quick play' or 'ranked' queue. There's only 'play'.

So unfortunately, if you want to play casually, the other team may just decide to sweat that match and it's probably going to be rough. This problem is not solved by splitting up the queues either, it would just make queue times longer.

in tunneling and slugging at 5 gens on quick play Comment by AmpersandUnderscore June 30, 2024

@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751635#Comment_3751635
I provided comp games as an example of how things go at the top level. The highest amount of pressure a killer can apply is to keep 3 survivors busy, not 4, unless they screw up badly. So however good you might be playing as the killer, there will always be the 4th survivor slamming gens, and if the survivors are good, they will rotate you for long enough to finish all 5 gens. That's why if the survivors know what they are doing, hook spreading equalizes to 4 escapes. It doesn't take a comp team to coordinate gens and know how to loop and rotate the killer among the team. The fact that in comp it's 100% tunneling and camping just shows what the game turns into when all the players are at the top of the skill ceiling, just the pure and crystalized skill looks like this, and it tells a lot about the game balance.
And once again, all your argument can be summed up as "not all SWFs are that good", so basically the killer is supposed to just hope the SWF they deal with is indeed "not that good". You still never said anything about what to do if the team is actually good and you can't tunnel, because even comp tier killers can't provide a solution to this problem.

It's not that 'not all swf are that good' it's that there's a reality that no one is perfect and everyone is defeatable.

I don't give one single crap about comp DbD. Partly because there are limitations on both sides, but mostly because it's the most boring gameplay I've ever seen. I want fun games, as do most people who play them in their free time.

The people who play games in their free time to win shouldn't be surprised when they start getting opponents who also want to win.

But even at the top, max level, survivor teams still lose. Comp tournaments defeat them, and you can watch hens, team eternal, or other really good teams play public and they're not going to win every game either, even with no restrictions.

The max win steak for 4 man is, I believe about 240 in a row or so. And that was a comp team specifically going as far as they could to set the record. For reference, that's on par with the trapper win steak, and blight broke 2000. So even in public, no holds barred matches, killers are more unstoppable at the top end than survivors are.

More to the point, people who tend to think they're 'high MMR' aren't. They're just going against people with more skill than they are. It doesn't take a lot for some people to hit their peak and blame anything and everything on something else.

You seem to be obsessed with winning, and also seen to be obsessed with the idea that a 4 man swf is completely unstoppable. So maybe you should join the discord and get a 4 man group going. You'll see very quickly how that plays out.

But since that would require you to both play as survivor, and challenge your core belief that SWF is the devil, that will likely never happen.