AmpersandUnderscore
AmpersandUnderscore
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771618#Comment_3771618
What i have heard many times is that its easy to reach the MMR point where the game just can pair you against literally anyone, no matter if they have 400 or 10k hours.
There are only 2 reasons the matchmaking system pairs people this way:
One is of you're waiting for a game for an extremely long time, the matchmaker will gradually expand the search range until this happens. In this extreme of an example, it would take something like 20-30 minute queues, and require that no one else is queueing all during that window. This is absolutely not normal or common for queue times.
The only other reason this happens is because another killer dodged the lobby. At that point, the matchmaker stops caring about a good match, and looks only for a quick match. Then it pulls whoever is next into an existing lobby regardless of the MMR spread.
So if you get this "regularly", what you really are asking for is for the devs to reduce lobby dodging. That's 100% the goal with hiding prestige.
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@Mr_K said:
Two game modes with one taking twice as many players (so essentially 3 modes) splitting the available player base. Of course this is the result.
Maybe, but that's not really the whole picture.
In theory, all of these modes have the same ratio of 1 killer to 4 survivors, and with MMR turned off in 2v8, it shouldn't really matter which queue people are in unless people are also switching roles.
Which is the real problem with 2v8: you have survivors switching to play kwf instead in droves, which is why the ratio is broken in both have modes right now.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771586#Comment_3771586
And why don't make it as option? I want to show my prestige in lobby, so why I can't? Just make it option in settings.
They did a random sampling when they tested this like a year ago. The system isn't going to work if people choose to hide or not.
That was blatantly obvious with all of the "I'm going to dodge people harder who feel like they have something to hide" talk after that test.
Hiding all prestige in the lobby is the way to go. If you want to show off your prestige achievement, you can do that at the end game just fine.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771594#Comment_3771594
I did absolutely think about that. As far as i know, it seems to be extremely easy to reach the top MMR where most matches are just a sweat fest.
At the end sadly i think the best solution is just to spend an entire day or something going into matches, go afk since min 1 and let them win to low your MMR as hard as you can.
This is the most common misconception I see in the forums, and it's everywhere:
You aren't at Max MMR, you're at the limit of your ability, and there's a big difference.
Just because you win, doesn't necessarily mean your MMR goes up by a significant amount. In fact, nearly every MMR system worth mentioning will compensate for a 1000 ranked player stomping a team of 400's by giving the 1000 player basically or actually nothing for winning such a mismatch, and likewise the 400's won't lose anything in that scenario.
Everyone has a limit to their individual skill, but let's not make the mistake in assuming everyone's limit is "the best in the game". That's just ego at a certain point, and I see that far more than people talking like they have any actual skill on this forum.
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@Jaysax said:
They justify this change in the post by saying it will hurt camping, which is fair enough. I hate camping, its boring, but I wouldn't have to do it if the maps were bearable and didnt have pallets facing eachother 10m away like on Eyrie for example.
They fail to realise though that making the hook stages 70s will hurt killers who dont camp more than it will hurt killers that do. Every time you hook someone the rest of their team has an extra 10s on a gen before they have to go unhook that person. Thats more progress than a Surge proc, for example.
Its more likely you can defend the hook than get another survivor hooked in the same time they will do 1 or 2 generators, and say if you did get a second hooked, thats spread pressure, and with only 2 or 3 gens left to do in the mid-game, its not looking good for the killer.
The rest of the game, particularly the maps, is not balanced enough yet to make this a good change.
If you don't stay near the hook and camp this change does nothing. Actually nothing.
Because the killer is pressuring survivors off of gens, and the longer a survivor stays on hook is better for the killer. They're in time out, so they can't do anything on the hook.
The only time this comes into play is if a killer is standing near a hook waiting, which means you're already not putting pressure on the other survivors (and gens are getting done).
There's no scenario where "killer isn't camping" and "extra 10 seconds of hook time" are both going to affect the game at once. Ever.
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Ah, now we get to the real reasons people were against this, which is that the meta game information the killer has access to in the lobby is too much.
Sounds like a perfectly good reason to get rid of the prestige in the lobby to me.
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Finally implementing something that took nearly no effort to change the number, but naturally can make camping and tunneling less efficient. Also has zero chance of being abused.
Only took years of me saying in nearly every tunneling thread to finally get them to listen for once.
Great change.
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Thank the entity, finally.
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This mode just highlights the fact that the devs can do everything possible to make the game about chases and downs, and yet some players still think the role is called "saboteur" instead of "killer".
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The pre defined kits is the way to go with this mode.
Though I'll admit there's probably a not-insignificant number of people who dreamt of nothing but 8 slowdown perks, but they will just have to be disappointed.
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This mode has already removed any killer interaction after a down: there's no flashlight save or even body blocking, because there's zero travel time.
It takes literally no effort, and there's zero risk to hooking/caging. At some point, people, including the devs, are going to have to accept that some killers are just going to slug for no valid reason.
The answer here is not to give auto-hook on down.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769548#Comment_3769548
I’m sorry Sinkra but I don’t believe this mode is as popular with survivors as it is with killers. And I don’t really see this changing..
It won't change with this iteration of the game mode, unfortunately. Understandably, the only real change in this mode is the 2 in the 2v8, which is both why people have asked for it for years and what the devs focused on.
For the 8, the gameplay is really too watered down and there's not enough variation from the regular 1v4 mode. Not that the classes aren't attempting to do that, because they tried, but it's a core gameplay issue:
Survivors in this mode are literally just fodder. Gens are largely the same, there's no alternative objective or anything, so staring at a progress bar is still the biggest part of the gameplay. Interacting with the killer is nearly deleted, though. Chases are nearly instant, and since it's designed for survivors to lose the 1v1 chase, there's no chance 2v1. And with cages, there's no lurking for altruism either.
So survivors get essentially more time to try to have a "balanced" game: rescuing, a bit of gens, etc. But BP gains at 400% aren't even cutting it, because base BP is so incredibly ######### it doesn't matter.
I won't deny that the mode, in theory, is popular. Or, at least people desperately want it to be good. But the devs will need to spend the next iteration implementing ways that it'll be engaging for the other 80% of players who they need to make this functional.
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As is typical of the forums, I've seen literally zero complaints about this, except of course this post as a meta complaint thread about an imagined issue.
All of the complaints are surrounding queue times, or why perks aren't available. And I honestly can't imagine anyone would look at a 2 killer game mode and think "no one would ever use comms", since that was about 80% of the entire point of asking for it.
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Short answer is it wouldn't work. Not without completely redeveloping the entire game, which is an unreasonable amount of work and effort.
Let's set aside the reality of things like regular hooks means 8 survivors can dedicate a full team of 4 to body block and completely deny any hooks. Let's focus on perks:
So with hundreds of perks at this point, they'd have to consider the interactions between combinations between different killers, and how to deal with duplicates.
They have to decide if certain things stack or not (say, both killers bring ruin... Is that 200% regression? Or just undying with extra steps?). Then they have to update perk descriptions to make it clear how that works: maybe ruin stacks, but SH: gift of pain doesn't, for example.
And let's be honest for a second, that's not that different from the 4v1 mode. I suspect there's a not-insignificant group of players who only wanted 2v8 so they could stack 8 slowdown perks, or just camp a hook with huntress while blight rounded everyone up.
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Hard disagree with the hooks, cages was a smart move in this mode.
It does limit the killer interactions available to survivors, but with 8 players, survivors would just body block the hooks with 4 people and make hooking impossible.
And that's not the only problem with hooks, just one of the biggest.
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I mean, the wait times alone mean that this game mode is insanely popular... for killers.
If there's a failure in 2v8 it's that there's not enough incentive to play survivor. It's not like the game is somehow lacking 4 survivors for every 1 killer, that ratio hasn't changed a bit.
I suspect it's the novelty of kwf, so an incredible number of swf players are switching to killer for this mode.
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You likely won't see much change until a hard meta emerges or they get rid of the survivor BP bonus.
An instant queue, 400% BP gain, and only a 1 in 8 chance you'll be tunneled out first instead of 1 in 4, means you get to actually play longer and you'll actually get rewards for playing a 'balanced' game instead of throwing for touching a totem.
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Alternatively, it shows that many, many of the changes since the 6.1.0 patch are going exactly the wrong way.
If you want to slow down the game, you don't increase gen times, buff regression, or improve gen blocking. All that does is increase pressure on the survivors to do nothing but gens, because of you don't it's basically an automatic loss.
What it shows is that if you reduce pressure on just do gens or you die, survivors (in general) aren't going to just hit the gens and leave. Give survivors decent blood point gains base kit and reduce the pressure to "just do gens" and most survivors will voluntarily slow the game down by doing chests, rescues, challenges, or literally anything besides just staring at a progress bar.
Just about every single patch in the past two years had been putting more pressure on gens, and that's the wrong way, in general, to do that. Turns out if you reduce the required gen time per survivor and literally delete regression from the game that map pressure and player agency is enough to naturally slow down the game.
Survivors are desperate for anything else to do, but the devs keep pushing this "do gens or die" play style. Not everyone is a sweaty gen rushing SWF.
I'd actually play survivor again, and bring back my "drink on Friday night while we die" SWF group if the base game was more "party game style" again, and not the competitive slog it's become now.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767895#Comment_3767895
People are alway too harsh with perks that ain't meta and/or highly optimised.
I think Weaving Spiders has a bigger positive impact on the game, then nomither.
Weaving Spiders is strongest, the earliest in the game it goes off, when it affects all 7 gens. When Sable dropped, I would routinely check the basement and often interrupt a smol happening, but now I would 99% of the time just lose important seconds, and I rarely notice that suddenly a survivor becomes broken.
The broken effect is a bad debuff, but you can usually get the perk off uninterrupted if it's the first thing you do in the match, and that already puts the killer on the backfoot from the get go.
If paired with Laras perk and a BNP you might actually get quite the comfortable chunk out of a contested middlegen without the killer having any option to do something against this. If you really want to pull this off, it's not that hard and it wl all but ensure that you can get that gen down, even if the killer actively defends it.
Is this strong or strong enough to warrant its use? Well, its not meta, that's for sure, but well, it's at least a medium viable way of spending your perks and doing something differently, but I wouldn't say that it's automatically "throwing" or "sabotaging ".
This perk is a hard contender for "worst perk in the game", and in my mind it's not even close.
This perk is completely overshadowed by just sitting on a gen. That's not only base kit, but you don't have to spend time going to one location (basement), you can do the nearest gen if you like. This is at least 20s of survivor time, per survivor.
You also aren't broken the whole match for doing a gen, so it doubles your chase time to not use it. On the low, low end you're talking 10 seconds per chase, so up to 30s right there. (But let's be real, it's so obvious you have this, you're begging to be tunneled).
So for 20 seconds of walking and 60 seconds of invocation you get 70 charges in 80 ish seconds. You know what you get for doing a gen in 90 seconds? 90 charges, which is also irreversible since it's a complete gen. And if you get interrupted on a gen, you get to recover some, of not all of that progress.
If the invocation is ever interrupted, at all, at any time, all of the time spent is wasted completely. And that doesn't even touch on the concept that survivors are strongest at the start of the match, so if someone isn't being maximally efficient immediately (on a gen, not in the basement) it's usually GG with the current state of the game.
It's a throw perk, not worth running, and I'm convinced that people who say otherwise are gaslighting hard.
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@TheArbiter said:
I've had a couple matches where the killer slugs the last survivor till bleed out, even though it takes half a second to hook in this game mode
Whaat? Nooo, that can't be right... We were assured the only reason people ever slug is because of hook dead zones...
Surely that wasn't just a lie...
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They tried this with the game death garden and it didn't work well.
I do like the idea of hook donation, so that survivors can opt to share their first hook stage in a shared hook pool, which is far more limited and the survivor has agency over sharing it.
It would serve much the same function, but be far more balanced IMO.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762243#Comment_3762243
without attempting to down or hook survivors for an extended time is holding a game hostage.
Really stretching the meaning here...
How exactly you are holding 3-gen without attempting to injure / down a survivor? That would mean survivors are free to work on gens in front of the killer.
Otherwise if survivors refuse to come close to the killer, aren't they the one holding the game hostage? They refuse to work on gens, which is their objective...
This isn't a stretch, it's literally the devs own words:
@Peanits said:
If they are making no attempt to down anyone and purely stalling the game by keeping everyone in madness 3, only downing and slugging them if they refuse to move, that would be considered holding the game hostage. We would need to see that they are doing this for a long time, though, not just a couple minutes. The 3 gen strat on its own is not bannable, it only become an issue when it's being used to grief instead of win.
This applies to extended 3 genning, specifically when the killer isn't trying to hook anyone, but just holding gens until the game closes.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766721#Comment_3766721
More fun for survivors maybe but doesn't make it more fun for killers that's my point, not fun for everyone. From a killer myself, I don't have fun spending whole match doing scooby do chases around a pallet like it's a joke. Yes you can argue it's part of the game and that's all survivors have to do (it's not but that's another topic) but tunneling is also part of the game like or not. So if it should be a base feature due to how easy it is to tunnel then same should apply to gens because let's be honest doing gens is pretty easy.... Just do the occasional skill check and that's it. Same should be applied to both sides or not at all.
So if it should be a base feature due to how easy it is to tunnel then same should apply to gens
There's already a base kit anti gen rush feature. There's a base kit, stacking penalty that punishes survivors for stacking up on gens.
In fact, this penalty specifically punishes survivors for focusing on one gen and completing it as soon as possible. The penalty doesn't apply if survivors spread pressure.
So this already exists for survivors. Sounds like tunneling one survivor out needs some kind of similar penalty, and has needed one for a long time.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764167#Comment_3764167
The less items that are in the game, the less effective the perk is.
Even if you don't have an item, it won't take long at all to find out when the perk is active. It literally tells you.
Items are essentially a 5th, limited charge use perk slot. The only even remotely equivalent thing for killer is the killer's power. This is like saying "just don't bring add-ons" to counter something.
If survivors had a perk or combo where "just don't bring add-ons" or "waste time in match" were the answers, the forums would burn to the ground with all the "feedback" about it.
ETA: This is almost exactly what we had with BP+FB for a while, the only difference is that it would've consumed a perk slot instead of add-ons. Killers could either run light born and hard counter it, but be down a perk slot just in case someone had this or a flashlight. Or waste time in game chasing the survivor lurking, but with all perks and add-ons they want.
So almost exactly this scenario, and that did burn the forums down and was nerfed.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766410#Comment_3766410
Having a perk that shows where every available resource is at all times leads to the devs removing resources. Hence, map reworks like Haddonfield with deadzones everywhere. I would prefer maps with more resources but an expectation that survivors need to pay close attention and use actual knowledge and game sense to identify where the resources are. You know, actual skill expression? Rather than "beep boop follow Google Maps to next yellow thing".
need to pay close attention and use actual knowledge and game sense to identify where the resources are
Oh, you mean like having to keep track of which hooks have been used to sacrifice a survivor and are no longer available?
Like, that game sense and knowledge?
Cause in light of recent changes, this almost sounds like you're advocating for WoO to be base kit.
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@bornagain234 said:
Imagine if there was a feature - sorry bug that when the survivors did a gen it took away a health state, how fast thatd be fixed.
Again, the US vs them is tiresome at best.
But there was a bug that was equivalent to this. Merciless storm was triggering and deleting entire gens progress for correctly hitting the skill check. That perk was never kill switched, and the bug took about 2 months to fix.
So I'd say that trading an extra gen progress for literally killing off a survivor is nowhere near as severe as survivors having to do 10 gens every match for free. If we're gonna go that route.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764876#Comment_3764876
Well regardless of what you consider crying ive only made one post about it and it definitely is an issue that needs brought up unless you just never play killer, I've already been informed it's being fixed
I mention it because at the time of my post, there were 5 different threads on the main page of general discussion of the forums about this exact topic. People are spamming in general.
And it's not like your op reads as a nice 'are the devs aware of this issue?' it's an explative filled rant screaming and basically disparaging the devs in general.
So yes, "crying" and "tantrums" are how I generally describe that kind of communication.
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The US vs them on this is beyond insane.
Merciless storm deleted the entire gen progress for hitting the skill checks correctly in a major bug, and the perk was never kill switched. That bug forced survivors to effectively complete 10 gens and was in the game for two months before they fixed it.
Calm down. They already announced the fix is coming in the very first patch.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764838#Comment_3764838
You can hardly compare the two, one ended a gens progress and the other immediately triggers the endgame
It's granting one generator's progress vs deleting a gens progress.
And the extra gen completion requires a survivor to quit the match per gen, where deleting a gen only required equipping a perk and it basically doubled the number of gens needed.
Not to mention the merciless bug was never kill switched and took about two months to fix, and this current bug will be fixed almost immediately.
Does it need to be fixed? Yes and the fix is coming. But the crying is insane, there are like 4 posts on the main page about it and people are losing their minds.
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They already said it's coming in the first hotfux patch. So I would guess Tuesday.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764710#Comment_3764710
My prefered solution to the whole thing: give every player with Reassurance 3 tokens, tokens can be used every time you are in range of the hooked survivor and they aren't under the effect of Reassurance. Tokens don't refil, this will but a max of 12 tokens in the game, or 9 affecting the same survivor, amounting to a max of 4.5mins on the hook, IF three survivors spend all their tokens on that one poor survivor on the hook and the killer doesn't intervene in any way, only slightly longer then the full bleedout timer. And the "press E to chancel the effect" could still be implemented.
The token system would allow one single survivor to keep the one on the hook alive long enough, that camping them out won't be worth it for the killer, leaving two survivors to fully commit to gens, and that one survivor theoretically being able to progress a gen by 45s or something in that ballpark. THIS would make the perk more then a nusiance, without it being super oppressive and removing all strategie.
One other aspect I was toying with was to increase the range of the drive by by +1.0 or +1.5m per missing token, so that the perk could be activated from further away, lending a certain strategy to that, too. Often you have to get so close to the hook that you could possibly just unhook the survivor, defeating the perks purpose (I know that this is not always the case, but the 6m ((I believe)) are awefully close). I actually prefere not to camp survivors out, but hunt and chase the others, and if the meta shifts in a way that Reassurance becomes widespread, it wouldn't affect my games too much ^_- And I guess we would see much more healthy games in general.
Either way would be better than what we got, tbh. I was actually looking forward to having a viable option to maybe having camping be less efficient, but that was completely annihilated.
People saw how effective reassurance could be, and blew a potential issue way out of proportion to force it to be changed.
The perk, as it is now, is essentially worthless without communication. Which, frankly, was the main reason for most of the "but someone think of the survivors" at that time. So, I guess that was completely successful.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764661#Comment_3764661
What exactly did they change in the Wesker PTB?
The reassurance version on the ptb paused the hook progress for 30s and was on a 40s cooldown. There was no limit of 1 per hook stage.
So, in theory, if 2 survivors ran around the hook using reassurance on cooldown, and the killer just let them, they could pause the hook state indefinitely. It could've been a hostage situation for the survivor on hook, and was easily avoided by letting the survivor on hook cancel the effect.
But people cried and got it changed into what it is now: one use per hook stage. It's just a striking coincidence that the change also made it so useless against camping that they had to put in an anti face camp feature later on as well.
But don't worry, people were just really, really worried about 3 players, including the killer, holding someone hostage. It had nothing to do with making a camping solution ineffective before it went live, oh no. Never that.
Even though the hostage issue was, again, completely resolved by letting the hooked survivor cancel the effect.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764570#Comment_3764570
The anti face camp is so easy to abuse as killer. When you have a downed nearby it doesn‘t even fill up and you can just camp like before, but with the difference that your teammates won‘t do something, because they believe in the anti camp.
Then it turned face campers into proxy campers, which is far stronger and more difficult to counter than someone who face camps or it turned them into tunnelers.
Actual facecamping almost never happened, so there is not really a point why the feature was implemented in the first place.
Agree, I even liked it, because it gave the game some fresh air.
Overall this feature did more harm than good and made this game more boring in my eyes.
If they gave the anti camp to perks like reassurance as status effect it could have been decent and funny some.times
Overall this feature did more harm than good and made this game more boring in my eyes.
I've been saying since the weaker ptb nerfed reassurance into uselessness, that reassurance should be put back to it's ptb form.
The only reason it was changed was 'to prevent hostage situations' which required at least two survivors and the killer to work together to keep someone on hook.
That problem is 100% fixed by "press E to cancel reassurance". Revert it with that change and let people have a useful anti camp tool.
Cause let's be honest, reassurance being viable to combat camping is the real reason people wanted it nerfed in the first place.
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@GeneralV said:
To be fair, setting a bad precedent for future reworks has already been done, thanks to Freddy in 2019. A character that had players who loved him was deleted from existence, and it doesn't get worse than that.
But I agree with ya here. The changes Knight received weren't good.
There were equally people who hated Freddy's old form. Forever Freddy was a build that should never have existed.
You might be able to argue that they went too far in some areas, but that killer was absolutely not in a healthy place overall either.
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@Rauy556 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764205#Comment_3764205
4 Survivors - 1 Killer, 30 seconds spent countering a boon is infinitely more harmful as a killer than for a survivor (in those 30 seconds survivors can cumulatively progress around 90s of a generator assuming 1 is in chase). Survivors have the ability to permanently counter the combo by doing that 30 second action ONCE, as opposed to CoH which would be activated MULTIPLE times per match meaning even more time would be required of the killer.
Once again, I also tell you that WA + Franklin's requires a killer to dedicate 2/4 of their perks, when old OoO or CoH only required 1/16 for a similar or even greater effect. A killer combo should be strong, a singular survivor perk should not be as strong as a killer perk combo.
The perk combo has multiple counters, you can either: a) run distortion b) run OoO or c) drop the item in a corner. It is not that difficult to do that is it? I reiterate, the killers able to benefit from this combo are weaker M1 killers, the fact you are complaining so adamantly about this combo used on M1s reeks of skill issue.
Again, I can completely hard counter it by not bringing an item myself, yet my teammate can not get the memo and screw me over mid chase.
It can't seriously be considered a viable option to stop mid chase to pick up an item and move it. It's also not reasonable to expect one survivor to be responsible for everyone's item in the match here.
Moving the item doesn't even disable the aura or turn off the perk, like snuffing does. The killer can see where you are, even while 'playing around' this perk. The aura is effectively permanent, which was entirely the problem with old object: permanent, consistent aura reading has already been determined to be a huge issue. We just, apparently, not only didn't learn from it, but we're now cherry picking and special pleading so it's 'ok, but only if it's for killers'.
And that doesn't even touch on the fact that a combo supposedly for aura reading now gives 30+ seconds of slowdown, by your own admission, for free? And, presumably either completely disables all items, or you have to go back at some point to get it, which is even more slowdown. Slowdown, aura read, draining item charges, oblivious, for 4 perk slots is insane value. It's no wonder that this is defended by everyone looking to power creep this game to death, but it has to go.
ETA: on the topic of CoH: it still required the survivor to bless each time, a minimum of 14 seconds. Weave is 'just slap on the perk' and no more requirement from the killer in the match. In fact, the whole combo has value with no additional killer input even if the survivors are trying to counter it. You're acting like boons reignited on their own or something here.
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@Rauy556 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764045#Comment_3764045
Killer aura reading compared to survivor aura reading is entirely different, the latter being way more oppressive as survivors can actively act on aura by making distance consistently while killer aura is still pretty strong but not as strong as bringing slowdown perks.
I'm not sure why you refer to 'boons' being deleted when only CoH was nerfed, the others have not been touched.mean CoH was way too oppressive for only requiring a SINGULAR perk slot (1/16) and had larger impacts than even some meta killer perks at the time. The truth is that a strong survivor perk CANNOT be as strong as a strong killer perk, its not rocket science, 16 perks on surv - 4 on killer, essentially meaning that a single killer perk must be equal in power to 4 survivor perks, you cannot tell me that CoH was weaker than some meta killer perks in a 1 to 1 comparison, let alone a 4 to 1.
OoO was busted, this combo is NOT COMPARABLE at all. For starters it only required 1/16 perk slots to benefit and this was not some meagre advantage it was constant map wide wall hacks. A killer dedicating 2/4 of their perks on this means that it SHOULD be strong but it is also an easily countered combo if survivors think for a second of HOW the perk works instead of babbling online about how its broken.
I will admit that in solo q it is VERY rough since some survivors are just oblivious on how game mechanics work which makes the combo seem way stronger than it is. I will also say that a nice change would be to make finding other survivors' items easier as this would minimize the power gap between SWF and Solo Q when facing this combo as a decent SWF can EASILY invalidate this combo which leaves the killer with only 2 perks for the entire match.
Also, the combo only benefits M1 killers AKA the weaker killers in the game (barring a few), so when you face it you wont be facing a nurse or blight. Also, if the combo bothers you that much, just run OoO for a hard counter.
Other boons were never worth running, and you're changing the topic, since the original point is that countering boons was just snuffing them. So make up your mind: is going 30s out of your way to counter a perk a problem or not? At least my argument there is consistent.
Old object was a problem because the aura reading was too consistent, so it was rightfully nerfed. Somehow now, consistent aura reading is now perfectly ok 'because it's the killer this time' in your opinion. Look up "fallacy of special pleading" sometime.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764143#Comment_3764143
You have a problem with it because it's a killer thing. Survivors get aura reading like this constantly.
No, which is why I brought up old object. That was a survivor thing, and was rightfully fixed because it was too consistent.
There's literally nothing in the game that gives constant aura reading permanently like this. What are you looking at?
Fogwise (dependent on RNG, and requires you to be touching a gen)?
Keys? (Are we really stooping so low that keys are a concern? At minimum, these have limited charges and you have to be close to the killer or survivor).
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764143#Comment_3764143
You can tell definitively if the killer has it or not just by dropping your item at the start of the game. There's not really any "might" about it.
There's "might" involved if I decide not to bring an item at all. You have no idea at the lobby if this is in play or not.
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@Mysore said:
you just need to drop your item in the corner of the map and that's it, the killer started the game with 2 fewer perks.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/83F5Z1VH7PX4/image-3ca0594c0922c-7c98.png
Yes, let me stop mid chase and pick up my teammates item because they didn't get the memo.
Not to mention, let's just voluntarily throw away every survivor item in the game, and give free slowdown just in case the killer might be running this.
I can see why people want to defend permanent aura reading with their lives, but we already learned that was broken af with old object.
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@Rauy556 said:
Im sorry, but if you cannot counter this extremely straight forward perk combo that's on you as a survivor, its VERY SIMPLE. Place ur items in a corner/deadzone and leave them there. That simple, you do that and 50% of the killer's build is useless. Just because you do not know how to counter something does not make it broken or overpowered, instead of complaining I suggest to try and think of or look up counter play because most often than not there is a glaring one in this game.
The counter to boons was snuffing the totem. That was also apparently too complicated, so boons were effectively deleted from the game to appease killers.
I can not bring an item at all, but all it takes is one teammate who didn't get the memo and suddenly the killer has wall hacks on me mid chase. You can't seriously be suggesting that I grab their item and drop it in a corner mid chase? That's ridiculous.
We already determined with old object that constant area reading was not a good thing for the game. Stop defending it.
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A) the devs do not give one single ######### about tunneling. 5 seconds was apparently 'too much' for DS, and they've never increased the hook timer in the game's entire history. They won't do anything about it, let alone anything this extreme.
B) This is a terrible way to try and address tunneling, even if something were to be implemented.
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This isn't the tunneling fix anyone needs.
This is clearly just a bug, and they've already posted that the fix is coming with the first patch, though I'm not entirely sure when that's going live.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762983#Comment_3762983
i have another, way much simpler idea. Just get rid of the DC penalty at all. I rather have bots as teammates that people who dont want to play this game but they still que up for some reason. By removing DC penalty, the people that cant be forced to play will at least leave a bot behind which is way more usefull than any punishement system ever.
Removing the DC penalty creates more issues than it solves.
I feel like people who advocate for removing the DC penalty are completely forgetting the human factor, or maybe aren't familiar with how the DbD community would use a penalty free system. (We've had periods of no disconnect penalty due to bugs in the past, and it's not been pretty)
You'd never finish a full game again, ever. The first time survivors are downed? Disconnect. If the survivor manage to get the gates powered? Killer leaves. The usable data for determining kill rates basically disappears, since they (rightfully) ignore games with a DC in those stats.
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Given that they removed this from ruin, I doubt they're going to implement anything this drastic anytime soon.
The only perks that even have anything close to this mechanic currently are thana, and dying light - if you kill the obsession.
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So are you also saying that pallets should respawn a minute or so after being used (like hooks now do)?
Or are we going the other way, and hooks are now broken permanently the first time they're used (like pallets)?
Either way, this sounds pretty ridiculous, given that there are literally no map resources for the killer to 'use up' anymore.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763219#Comment_3763219
I cannot and will never agree with this. This is just people ragequitting because they've had bad games, expect more bad games, and now they're passing those bad games onto me.
I've had fun in matches where someone went down early. I've had 4-man escapes in matches where someone went down early. I have not had fun in matches where the first survivor to go down decides the match is lost less than a minute in and proceeds to forcibly lose it for the other three members of the team.
Hell, in the game I played between starting this post and finishing it, a Huntress brought iri head and a Sable went down in the first 20 seconds, and when she got unhooked, she went into the basement and started doing an invocation. The game looked goddamn awful. Then the Huntress started chasing me and it turned out she was actually pretty bad, and I looped her for two gens around a single medium pallet loop. That early down meant nothing to how the game played out.
When anyone's feeling that negative about the game, where they're sure their game is going to be terrible unless everything goes perfectly? They need to take a break, not continue and force those bad games into existence.
I played a game with my duo partner about a year ago (before I got tired of beating my head against a wall on survivor). Wesker on gas heaven.
Our randos were Claudette and Meg, no idea if they were just awful, or throwing, but it didn't matter. Claude went down in the first 2 minutes, and Meg was apparently lurking nearby and went down as well. First two hooks were in main basement, right next to where they both dropped, and wesker just stood camping at the top of the stairs with 5 gens remaining.
That game was over almost immediately. There was no chance of recovery.
This is an extreme example, but it's not that hard to tell when the game is over. The HUD basically means every survivor knows what gen progress across the map looks like at all times.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762239#Comment_3762239
well no, because it’s performing the function that it was designed to: punish the most egregious form of camping, aka face camping
sure, some killers are still viable for proxy camping like deathslinger, t3 Myers, Billy, etc but for the most part, in my games, the system has given me better odds because no longer can someone effortlessly stand directly in front of me and ensure I die; worst case, I can self unhook at the last minute and waste his timeAnd yet, being able to stand at 11m and prevent an unhook, as op described, appears to be counter to the intended purpose.
So it seems incredibly likely that the mechanic is under tuned. The original ptb implementation was 16m instead of 11m, but it also worked if the killer was on another level/floor. Since they also severely limited the vertical distance (disabled if the killer is on stairs, for example) the 16m distance should also be fine to revert.
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Probably because of the mindset that it's to reduce slugging. This is at minimum a qol change for killer, and I don't really personally see any reason to reuse a map resource where you've already irreversibly completed part of your objective.
If they did this to survivors, the equivalent would allow survivors to 'complete a gen' then wait a few seconds and they could complete the same gen again. Market it as 'helping to reduce 3 genning', and a 'qol update that means less worry about the macro game'. And that, to me, seems equally ridiculous.
If they really wanted to reduce slugging concerns, they'd target slugging for the 4k, and toxic slugging, not some less than 1% occurrence. That's not what this update fixes in the slightest.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762156#Comment_3762156
You cannot hold an entire game hostage. You get eight kicks per gen.
You don't even have to kick gens to hold a game hostage.
According to the game rules, and the devs have confirmed, you only have to 'not progress the game for an extended period'.
So even just camping a 3 gen, without attempting to down or hook survivors for an extended time is holding a game hostage. No kicking, or regression events required.
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@dwight444 said:
it's anti-face camp, not anti-camp
This is how you know the system is completely useless.
There's no 'i have to consider this every game' or 'this system seems over tuned' or even 'is this the right solution' from people who want to defend it's current state.
There's literally zero discussion allowed about the AFC system. Because it's so easy to circumvent, or outright ignore as the killer, people don't even try to give reasons, all we get is this identical, parroted, and pedantic response to literally every single post that tries to talk about how the system does not appear to do anything functional.