AmpersandUnderscore
AmpersandUnderscore
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747876#Comment_3747876
Chaos shuffle didn't take into account which perks any player had unlocked. A new account wouldn't have any difference in perks at all. It's the closest thing to a casual mode we'd be able to get, and a casual mode is something ppl have been begging for forever.
I don't disagree that this is what CS was, but it's very specifically not what the OP was saying:
unlock the perks with progress, but assigned at random
I feel like I'm the only person who actually read the op.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748014#Comment_3748014
You immediately started comparing random other combos. I'm not trying to go on a rant about combos. KILL ALL THE COMBOS!!! Set it so certain perks are straight up unplayable together... I don't care. My thread is talking about Weave when not comboed...hense the title. Unlike other perks that can be comboed but still work by themselves, weave really doesnt.
How would one go about buffing chests? Also, considering the perk basically announces itself once an item is depleted, why do you think anyone would purposefully strew items around the map after getting new ones from chests?
Well, since buffing chests is the only constructive idea to 'fix' weaving without completely reworking it, I'm not sure. Removing green maps and broken keys from the loot pool is a good start, no one would ever pick those up (in their current state).
You could make one add-on spawn at random on the chest item, tho that could potentially be an issue unless we limit, say, iri add-ons to not spawn at all, and maybe limit the add-ons to the tier of the item or lower as well. Currently there's no reason to even touch chests, but giving a decent item would mean survivors have the option to A) do an actual secondary objective, and B) would have to drop their current item to swap out.
I'm curious what your thoughts are to improve weaving, since you haven't offered any suggestions of your own yet either.
As I mentioned initially, just because perks aren't necessarily good on their own, doesn't mean that combos aren't too good to consider as well. I'm sorry if my relevant examples offended you, but those perks are also actually useless without the supporting combo as well.
Nowhere did I say kill all perk combos, but just because some things take two or even more perk slots isn't a reason to consider them 'good' or 'balanced'. Lethal pursuer, for example, combos with nearly every aura perk, and I wouldn't say those combos are broken, and those perks are also individually good on their own. So it's possible to pull that off, even with aura reading.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748001#Comment_3748001
Just To be clear, at no point did I say any of that. You're arguing with a strawman in your head right now. I'm completely OK with OP stuff to be tuned down. They did plenty to make various slowdowns have anti-synergy for this exact reason. Blocked gens can't be kicked, nor do they regress. Regressing gens ALSO can't be kicked.
I would like to be in the position where individual perks don't HAVE to be used in combos to get value. That shouldn't be a crazy stance to take worthy of immediately getting antagonized over.
I'm not antagonizing, I'm pointing out that there are certainly times where having a perk combo can or will cause unintended exponential power spikes that need to kept in mind.
You're specifically arguing that the perk is useless without the combo perk. That's exactly where for the people is and was before BU got changed to endurance.
When I even offer that maybe buffing chests would fix part of your concern I get literally attacked out the gate. That seems pretty obvious that you don't want to fix the problem, you want the combo and only that.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747876#Comment_3747876
Which can easily be fixed by allowing the game to assign people any perks in the game when playing Chaos Shuffle, regardless of whether they have unlocked a perk or not.
That would fix the meta issue, but that's also specifically not what op said they wanted.
Doesn't change that the game mode would become stale after a while either.
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Taking up multiple perk slots and 'having the perks be nearly useless individually' has no bearing on whether or not a combo is 'broken'.
Or are you trying to say that somehow BU+FtP or BP+FB were unjustly nerfed because those also took up two perk slots and the perks did nearly nothing on their own?
It's interesting in this case, since an obvious fix to this would be to make chests worthwhile... but that isn't being mentioned either.
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I don't think I've ever seen the devs talk about it directly, but it's come up regularly every so often.
I'm generally in favor of the idea, depending on what limitations they put on it. (Like having to be at the 'find help' level of recovery and/or a time limit to prevent people spamming the button as soon as they drop)
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I think the devs are going about it the right way to have limited time modes for these kinds of events. Even a popular one like chaos shuffle. Everything gets stale eventually.
The issue with it being a permanent game mode is that you'd still have a meta develop over time, and not in a healthy way. Even with random perks like CS does, what do you think happens when someone decides to make a new account and only unlock the 4 meta perks? The game can only give them perks they have unlocked, so the 'random' mode becomes identical to normal mode as people do that more. And it would actively punish people for progression.
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@Nazzzak said:
I've said for awhile they need to make them not count. It won't eliminate slugging but I do think it'll help.
I'm curious how you think this will help reduce slugging.
Since most people, including the devs, consider any survivor death to be a 'kill', saying effectively "hey, here's a way to kill survivors without making your games harder" seems like a pretty certain way to encourage people to slug more.
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I hope not. We'll know when the ptb lands, but if scourge hooks come back as scourge and not regular hooks, they need to correct that before the patch goes live.
The whole idea with scourge hooks is that they are limited resources the killer should be using wisely, and this would be a buff that scourge hook perks do not need.
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Bleeding out a survivor does count as a kill.
There are only two ways a survivor is considered to have escaped: door or hatch. The door is considered as that survivor 'winning' for MMR, and the hatch is considered 'neutral' for MMR, or a tie.
In any other case, whether by hook sacrifice, mori, entity does it themselves (EGC, or 1 hour game timeout), or even bleed out is considered a 'kill' by the game for both stats and MMR.
Having bleed outs not considered kills as you suggest would only increase slugging and would be incredibly stupid. This also does nothing to deter slugging for the 4k (or as you call it 'in a 2v1') because that is done to deny hatch escape and guarantee the 4k. Literally nothing about hatch is changing, so this practice only becomes more frustrating for the survivor, who is probably already close to a hook and is only getting their time wasted because the killer feels entitled to a 4k. None of that changes whatsoever.
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@supersonic853 said:
Any reason why? It requires 2 perk slots and the survivors can literally control what you see.
If there's one thing we know for a fact it's that taking two perk slots has no bearing on whether a combo is balanced or not.
Otherwise you're directly saying that BU+FtP and FB+BP were also fine, since they also take up two perk slots and the killer 100% controls downs and pickups.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747177#Comment_3747177
That's the point I'm making with regards to Distortion. If you eliminate Distortion, it's not just 'moving away' from stealth. It's annihilating it in its entirety.
It is not.
I'd like to see you dodge Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon, for example.
Its the same way you deal with BBQ. The exact same way you have no problem with…
Which works against BBQ & Chili, because the survivors get advance warning of when it is about to fire
Also you talking about Floods of rage -
The only one that has a condition that is -somewhat- outside the normal game loop is Floods of Rage, and that just depends on hook distribution.
It can only be used 6 times max and hook distribution plays a part in that potentially being lower and survivors determine when it gets set off, So I would be willing to let that be an exception.
And if your whole argument for justifying distortions existence is to say look at Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon Your argument does not work its cooked all 3 of these perks are bad. Unless used on specific killers that synergise with them.
Also, Ultimate weapon does not reveal your aura, it is not an aura perk. I don't think you know what you are talking about this is waffle and does not make sense.
Its the same way you deal with BBQ.
This is how you know your argument is completely invalid.
BBQ has a very distinct tell. The killer picks up the survivor and it's very clear they're going to hook them. You can head to a locker when they pick up, and wait inside for a bit after they hook. This was literally meta before 6.1, so I've done this hundreds of times.
What do you honestly think the tell is for these other perks?
Am I just supposed to be psychic and know that the killer on the other side of the map is about to open a locker for darkness revealed?
Or just jump in a locker whenever you're in the terror radius to avoid ultimate weapon, since you still can't predict the like opening a locker. Or kicking a gen in the case of nowhere to hide.
Solo q is just screwed by floods of rage because there's literally no way to communicate that someone is 'unhooking now'.
These are nowhere near the 'same as BBQ'. Pretending they are means you either never play survivor, are being completely disingenuous, or possibly both at the same time.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746339#Comment_3746339
This is basically the one thing killers need to keep track of in their macro game
Ah yes, killer don't have to think about much else. Not the progress and strategic positioning of up to 7 gens, not the hook states on 4 survivor (with potential same characters and cosmetics), not their constant rough whereabouts, not the dropped/broken pallets and walls, not the 16 perks on said survivors and who has what...amongst other stuff. Nah, killer have it chill and easy, no attention needed as a casual player. /S
And finally, if we flip it: what if survivors could just complete the same generator repeatedly. Gen completes, you get full completion credit, then a few seconds later just go back and work on it again.
Sure, but only if survivor also have to chase down some parts or whatever half across the map, taking 20 to 60+ seconds to find.
But you don't have to track any of that. In fact, a lot of killer games are 'chase the first guy you found until he's dead', and if you do that fast enough you outright win the game. No tracking, no complicated anything, just tunnel.
You seem to also have skipped the important part of my statement without answering it:
That sounds ridiculous, and honestly unnecessary. So why are we doing this with hooks?
The gens example was chosen because it's ridiculous. So why are we making this change?
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@Neaxolotl said:
They love forcing killers to use bleed out, but they hate being bleed out
Humans are strange creature
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745907#Comment_3745907
You have two health state and you can just shrug off one hit, rush straight to deadzones
It's more like "that is only true if the survivor is a bot that stays exact opposite of killers", SURVIVORS choose where to move, when to get hit, when to run, and ultimately where to down
Killers NEVER have any control over where survivor goes, survivors can stop running and die in front of killer, survivor can dash into killer and go opposite side, and if survivor decide to abuse deadzone, there is extremely large distance they can run straight to it
Your post reads is as if you don't know there is a human controlling survivors, but the fact is pretty much all of survivors are controlled by humans
Apparently we've hit the point where zoning survivors is so foreign a concept that people are claiming to be completely helpless. If you think you have no choice but to just follow the survivor, you're not just wrong, you need to take a killer 101 class.
There's a big difference between zoning and what you seem to think I'm saying. The killer doesn't have a remote control over the survivor to point where they go, I never said that.
But you seem insistant that the killer is somehow helpless to just go where the survivor wants. That's not true either, and that's entirely my point here.
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I think my issue with it is that it doesn't really seem necessary. This is basically the one thing killers need to keep track of in their macro game and that's being removed completely now.
Most everyone brings up the slugging issue... If we're targeting slugging then slug for the 4k should be the absolute first thing looked at. That is incredibly common, where hook dead zone slugging is, at best, very rare. It also doesn't do anything for slugging out of spite, and I've been slugged for 4 minutes after crawling with the killer to fully functional hook. Also rare, but why not fix that too?
We haven't seen how this affects scourge hooks yet, so that could be an issue where we're introducing 'god' scourge hook spawns for no reason whatsoever. Scourge hooks were designed to be consumable, but now likely aren't. That doesn't seem necessary either.
And finally, if we flip it: what if survivors could just complete the same generator repeatedly. Gen completes, you get full completion credit, then a few seconds later just go back and work on it again. That sounds ridiculous, and honestly unnecessary. So why are we doing this with hooks?
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745866#Comment_3745866
Yeah that's not what I'm saying. You realize survivors control where a chase is going, right? If they run to a hook deadzone every time you try to pressure them off a generator, you're going to have to slug—or as you suggest, not even that. I'm not talking about survivors running around not doing objectives being bad chases to take, I'm talking about survivors who recognize a hook deadzone and lead every chase they can there.
You realize survivors control where a chase is going, right?
This has to be a joke. This is only true if the killer is a bot that follows the survivor's exact path and kicks pallets on cool down.
You should look up a zoning guide for killer if you truly believe this. Zoning the survivor to cut off certain avenues for them to run is literally killer 101.
And as for dropping chase, if you leave a survivor to run themselves into a dead zone, that's a survivor not on gens while you can go for someone actually contributing to gens.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745285#Comment_3745285
Still, there is no problem for the Killer to follow that Survivor, because they just injured them. Other forms of tracking are also still active (footsteps, even if some people claim they were not there, scratchmarks, Pools of Blood).
Just to add here, iron will doesn't affect:
- Scratch marks, blood pools, and footsteps (like you said)
- Coughing, puking, screaming, or other sounds from killer power interactions
- AI or other tracking (zombies, guards, drones/claw traps)
- Auras
- Vault and locker audio
- Gen, totem, or other interactable noise (not in chase, but still relevant)
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745165#Comment_3745165
As I said:
Not that this will stop slugging
Slugging for the 4k has to do with the hatch mechanic, and reworking that would take a lot of time and effort. Respawning hooks takes like practically no time and effort on BHVR's part. Slugging has been a growing complaint, so I assume this is a reaction (and like I said, not a fix) to that. The biggest complaint I've seen on the forum lately has actually been killers slugging for no reason whatsoever, and this change doesn't help with that, either.
I don't think it'll stop slugging either, but let's not try and sell this change as some kind of benefit to survivors.
This doesn't touch on any of the most common reasons for slugging: for the 4k, sabo plays, spite/pettiness.
It's a killer buff, and it's not exactly game breaking, but it's somewhere more than a tiny qol buff and a macro gameplay buff.
It being a killer buff is ok, but trying to claim it's anything else makes it seem really weird at best or disingenuous at worst. Let's call a duck a duck here.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745078#Comment_3745078
I assume they're doing it because of the surge in complaints about slugging. Not that this will stop slugging, but the game has a lot of mechanics that encourage slugging. Respawning hooks won't get rid of slugging but will remove one of the mechanics that cause slugging to be necessary.
It's a tradeoff between easier hooks or necessary slugging. It seems half and half: for every complaint about hooks being too easy and never being able to wiggle off, there's also a complaint about too much slugging. There's no making everyone happy, but most survivors would rather be hooked than bleed out.
The biggest complaint for slugging has always been slugging for the 4k. This does literally nothing to that incredibly common scenario.
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It's still hard countered by hemorrhage, which has always been the issue with this and reactive healing. Until that aspect is fixed, neither one is likely to see much play.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745048#Comment_3745048
It's much easier for survivors to choose what gens they do than for killers to choose what hooks they use. When I'm playing killer, I have to take the nearest hook to where the survivor has decided to run or it's a huge risk of of me getting stuck on the environment and them getting off my shoulder. As survivor, if the killer is staying in the same area usually one of us can distract him and still manage to get one of the gens done.
But still removing that macro consideration from the game, which is honestly the only one that killers even have to consider at all.
They've essentially made every hook a basement hook.
Survivors have to manage both gens and pallets as macro resources, and any mistakes can potentially cost you the match. I mention gens because 1) it's the equivalent objective, and 2) it sounds ridiculous to even suggest that they make this change to gens. So there's no reason to do it for hooks either.
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Unless it's a requirement to make the path 10m minimum distance from the knight this isn't going to do much of anything.
Players will just draw a circle on the ground at their feet that's 10m long and still shut down the loop.
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744999#Comment_3744999
You do realize that in order for the killer to hook you, they have to chase and down you in the first place, right? Or are you saying that youre losing against potato killers? lol
This is simply a great QoL change, no more annoying survivors dragging out matches.
It's removing the macro gameplay from the killer side, at least for creating dead zones.
Why shouldn't you have to consider creating dead zones when completing your objective? If we apply the same thinking to survivors, are they going to add that you can complete the same gen repeatedly after 60 seconds?
After all, avoiding a 3 gen is macro gameplay, and apparently you shouldn't be punished for creating a deaf zone by completing your primary objective.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744217#Comment_3744217
or you can look for hatch while running from him. "hey if i don't get what i want you don't either" isn't a mature mentality if i'm being honest.
if he pulls you are getting hooked or bled out, the chances of him letting you wiggle and trying again is very slim unless he at least knows for sure where hatch is and that you won't be able to make it because there is no completely dead area in any map big enough that you can let a survivor wiggle and catch up after the stun.
it's kinda clear you are just petty about it and think this as a favor you grant to attempting myers player but let's assume not, i promise you that slim chance isn't worth waiting tens of minutes until he runs out of patience lol
I literally gave you the game theory answer here. I'm not denying out of pettiness, the only path to anything for the survivor is for the killer to pull. You can't outrun the killer if you just exit the locker into his arms, you only have a chance of he's stunned (by wiggling off) which, again, requires the killer to pull from the locker.
Expecting the survivor to hand you the achievement is the definition of entitlement. If someone just stood in the open after three other people just died to the same thing, they'd be an idiot.
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@Rythoriak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744217#Comment_3744217
If you read my direct example the person just ran back into the same locker over and over. There is no chance for hatch as it's not at that part of the map so they're staying just to stay.
Also, claiming in your response to me that you care about 7k bloodpoints that much in youre response to me (I went to college for math by the way), in 30 minutes you could have played 2 more matches (more if you get tunneled out) and could have won up to 60k+ in those games. So you're actually getting CONSIDERABLY less by staying in the match. If you stay because you care about your w/l ratio or MMR that much so be it but I still feel this is incredibly petty especially if you have no option but that locker to run to over and over as you continue to get pulled out.
If you can't get the achievement because hatch is too far away, or there's no dead zone, then hook. Every single hook on the map is available, or you'd already have lost the achievement.
The only reason this isn't an option is stubbornness.
I'll leave with this: in an evil within locker standoff we have this:
- The survivor is taking the one and only action they can to survive.
- The killer has the opportunity and means to kill the survivor, but is specifically and intentionally not killing them.
Your opinion on this scenario is that the survivor is somehow in the wrong here. That's insane.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744108#Comment_3744108
so you don't sacrifice yourself by jumping in a locker? do you live then? you don't throw the game or give the myers any advantage when you don't jump in a locker. you just be a normal person that doesn't wait in a locker for half an hour out of pure spite and pettiness unlike any other example you gave.
the equivalent to this can only be i think being a killer, losing on purpose, opening one gate and camping the other. haven't seen it happen once.
If I'm the last one alive and the other 3 are dead, Myers is outside my locker in tier 3.
If I leave the locker I'm dead 100%.
If I stay in the locker and the killer does nothing, I'm still dead, but the killer won't have any chance at their achievement either. We both don't get what we want
If I stay in the locker and the killer pulls me out, then we both have a chance: I can try to wiggle free and get hatch, and he can hope that I wiggle free in a dead zone so he can get the finisher.
The only scenario here where both player have a chance to get what they want is for the killer to pull. That's the scenario the killer has full control over. The only scenario the survivor has control over is throwing the game and giving up.
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@Rythoriak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744131#Comment_3744131
Anyone can pretend I get your argument. But why waste 30 minutes when the match is over? If someone is waiting this long rather than hooking you, there's no real reason for them to wait unless they were farming the Evil Incarnate achievement (other than to troll and make you waste your time thinking you were denying them). I 100% get people playing lockers when the match isn't already over.
My name literally said what I wanted so it was quite obvious what I was doing for RPD. Also my profile was public so they could just go to my profile to see I didn't have the achievement.
They can do what they want as long as its within the rules of the game but people doing things that are beyond the scopes of winning and losing (other than the tunneling example) to deny achievements is what this question was about.
Staying in a locker is within the rules of the game. The devs have addressed this exact scenario and said that no one is holding the game hostage, and either side can end the game at any point.
You (and I think the other person who responded) are only looking at this from a killer perspective. The 'match being over' and '3k' scenarios do not mean that the 4th survivor needs to die here.
There's been literally no consideration to the fact that the last survivor dying does mean that player loses individually. The team may have already lost, sure, but he's the thing: I value my 7k blood points over the killer maybe, possibly getting an achievement.
There's no other avenue to try and get that than to wait in the locker. Leaving the locker is death, getting pulled is maybe death. The killer wants this so badly they don't want to actually outplay by pulling the survivor into a dead zone to get the finisher. That's not on the survivor.
The killer is the only one with agency here, which would require them to play the pvp part of the game, and then earn their achievement. There isn't anything the survivor can do except literally toss themselves on the knife here. That's ridiculous.
And I think you recognize that expecting the survivor to throw is ridiculous, because when we consider the left behind achievement, I can rename my account 'left behind achieve', point at the door, and give every in game indication that I want that. And the killer is in no way obligated to just give in and let me have it, even if he's already got the 3k secured.
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@Rythoriak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744108#Comment_3744108
But it's not a 3v1 situation is what I and they are trying to say. All other 3 survivors have been mori'ed. The only player left was found and ran into a locker. Eventually they afk'ed long enough (5-10 minutes) in the locker they get pulled them out and taken to a remote location walking past many hooks as far from a locker as possible. They get picked up and dropped until they stun and all of a sudden like magic they're not afk and they run back into another locker. I don't see how this is about "survival" at this point if you're going to spend 30 minutes wasting time rather than go next in a match that is lost.
This also requires a Myers to farm these addons which is why most will be persistent in waiting. It takes around 400k-600k bloodpoints to get both addons on average unless you're a high prestige. The survivor loses nothing by dying at this point to a Mori vs a hook.
Also for your question about outbreak breakout, I did indeed get free escapes by killers who even mentioned in endgame chat how bad that achievement is. I have also let survivors go quite often myself. Some people play for fun, some play to win, some play for achievements, some play to troll and enrage people, that's why I asked to see how the community felt about these situations.
Then answer my original question: what's stopping people from acting like they need the achievement?
Why shouldn't I burn every rpd offering I have, and name my account 'breakout please'? Should I be angry if the killer doesn't allow that?
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3741480#Comment_3741480
noone is expecting people to line up to get moried one by one. also myers already won the match if there is a locker situation, what "handing a win" are we talking about?
I'm not going to volunteer to sacrifice myself, even in a 3v1. If you can pull me from a locker and manage to get me then good for you. But I'm not going to jump on your knife.
No one expects this for any other achievement in the game. Are you letting people escape on rpd so they can get outbreak breakout? If the gens are done, they've already won. Apparently that's the condition and requirement in your opinion.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743938#Comment_3743938
I was extremely confused until I realized you meant that Trickster got rebalanced from a 110% speed killer to a 115% speed killer.
So they decided Trickster didn't need the nerfed movespeed which is usually given out to compensate for a strength the killer has elsewhere (Huntress's ranged attacks, Hag's teleportation, Chucky's small hitbox, etc) and moved him up to an average killer movespeed.
They did not take a 115% movespeed killer and move them above the norm permanently.
Now you're moving the goal post. The fact is, they have him a permanent move speed increase that didn't break the game by itself.
The fact that bloodlust by itself, for every killer, does increase move speed above normal is enough to destroy your argument here. And for the record, bloodlust lasts until the end of the chase, just like MfT.
Go ahead, move the goal post again.
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743938#Comment_3743938
Survivor's many complaints made it pretty clear that buffed Trickster is a uncounterable unfun mess
And none of those complaints are about movement speed, since they also basically deleted recoil and made the blades more accurate at the same time.
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Things like we'll make it or deliverance activate on unhooks, so you can accidentally deny your teammate their perk just because you didn't know they're running it. Thankfully there aren't too many perks like this that I can think of.
Been a while, but reassurance does have visual cues. The survivor on hook glows and their bar progress pauses, I believe the progress bar in the bottom left UI has an aura or flashes slightly to indicate remotely that it's active, but I agree it isn't obvious if you don't know what it means.
Plot twist is possibly down to observation, if you can notice that the survivor wasn't in chase (or someone else was in chase) right before the down. You can hold shift to prevent someone from getting you up, but that doesn't give back the time they wasted running to pick you up.
Showing survivor perks in the lobby, or even the escape menu would help this issue, but not solve it unfortunately.
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742321#Comment_3742321
When it lasts 10 seconds it does not make any difference
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742384#Comment_3742384
When its permanent and rewarding failure not to mention its 4% yeah its pretty busted. Yet killers haste perks is just 5% for 10 seconds that makes no difference whatsoever
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742307#Comment_3742307
I agree. If i was balancing haste, I would make perks that give consistency haste be 3% permanently so if you invent 4 perks that have unlimited haste bonus, they could at most stack to 12% on killer and every timed duration effect would be at most 5% on 30 second duration timer for a total of 20% haste.
I doubt dbd will ever make 4 chase perks on killer as meta.
Trickster got a permanent, unconditional 5% haste buff that didn't completely annihilate the game. Base kit too, so doesn't even take up a perk slot.
Saying that these things are conditional or temporary is just cherry picking.
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@bjorksnas said:
Its a 2 perk combo for info and item disruption
heres my "nerf"
it takes up 2 perks slots so you only have 2 other perks to use in your build
would be an effective change
I've seen this mentioned in most of the threads about this perk/combo, and 'taking up two slots' has no bearing on whether something is balanced or not.
Otherwise, you're implying that BU+FtP and FB+BP nerfs were somehow unwarranted because those also took up two perk slots.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743201#Comment_3743201
I mean let's be honest here, the devs are nowhere near perfect in their decision making and some rather recent killer designs or gameplay decisions show how terrible their ideas sometimes are, with that in mind I do think that some of rejected ideas were far better than they assumed they would be... I mean they resisted for years to have other game modes or modifiers and now look how popular they are... If they would not have been so stubborn to not introduce them earlier the game could be far bigger right now than it is currently in the sense of active player base... Look at old games that have a lot of custom games and how many people still play them, despite the lack of new content from the devs of those games...
I'm not sure why you're feeling so combative here.
I simply said the devs had rejected ideas very similar to this before, and then even agreed they could change their mind.
At no point have I even injected my own opinion on the matter, this is literally just facts about DbD history here.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742615#Comment_3742615
So they cannot change their mind? They nerfed Billy a lot and then made him stronger again... I don't think such stuff is set in stone.
I mean, they can.
But it's not like this is some kind of mind blowing original idea that the devs have never thought of before.
The concept was considered in depth and rejected.
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The devs have already considered and dismissed the idea of having customized per-killer features like this.
They said they considered things like varying break speeds and varying gen times per killer and have already stated they will not do anything like that.
Scott should already know that, he's been here long enough.
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@frozzenk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742182#Comment_3742182
It's hard to understand the hypocrisy of asking people to not do something that is effective yet understandably unpleasant, so you can then wait for them and t-bag at the hatch. Can you explain that?
I don't teabag.
I've been bled out several times.
At best these things aren't related, except in some us vs them crap. I can confidently say I denounce both of these because I don't do either one.
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Not every survivor is going to play this way.
Why is it hard to understand that watching grass grow under your character for 4 minutes is not the kind of gameplay people want?
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I don't blame people for running distortion, that feels like a real stretch when I see those complaints.
Lethal is a fantastic perk for building early game pressure. I've been running this in nearly every game I play for at least two years now. And it's good to know when you only see 3 auras at the start that you've got a distortion player.
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@cruelb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3741706#Comment_3741706
No, but I’m not sure that was their emphasis as such. I didn’t read it as 100% on all games.
Killers win most games, that’s just a fact. Perks are more favourable for killer.
I play 50/50, fairly as possible and I want other players to enjoy the game. I rarely get a DC due to my behaviour as a killer.
I probably win 70/80% 4K without any of the obnoxious gameplay, and I don’t run aura. If I do it’s a side-effect of an add-on.
It’s unimpressive that people just care more about points and being ugly towards other people with things they say/do (not suggesting you do that).
This game isn’t balanced at all and varies across maps etc for both sides.
I still don’t think this was a baiting post, just enquiry.
edit: reading again, I read it just as a single game example.
See that makes more sense, I didn't consider it as a single game example either until you mentioned it.
But I think what you mentioned is the answer to op then: that sometimes you just lose the game and go next.
Sometimes you can learn from mistakes and get better, but it doesn't necessarily have to be blaming the game or even focusing on losses.
When I play survivor I want fun gameplay and chases, and didn't really care if I lose that game.
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@cruelb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3741698#Comment_3741698
It’s sad/unfortunate you think it’s a ‘baiting’ post. It’s a shame people are so cynical, I thought it was perfectly legitimate.
You didn't answer any of my questions.
Is a 100 % win steak normal?
If it is, would that indicate a game imbalance?
If a game imbalance allows for a guaranteed win in a pvp game, is that not something people should complain about?
Does a 100% kill rate with no camping, tunneling, or slugging match your killer experience? I play very fairly and don't have near that record.
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@cruelb said:
It’s very sad how some people think, like the previous comment.
I try and play like you as killer also. I don’t just want to ‘win’ I want to be fair and have a decent game.
I personally think slugging/tunnelling/full aura just reflects low-skill.
People will always moan, just turn that chat off :)
Which part?
Are you saying that having a 100% kill streak is common and normal? As I said, if so that seems to indicate a pretty heavy imbalance somewhere. Heavy enough that it would both be obvious what that is and why people would complain about it.
Since the op is focused on 'why do survivors complain' I'm inclined to think that the reality is closer to not actually winning every game, but instead looking for a reaction... Which is bait by definition.
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This post is the definition of bait.
If you're genuinely getting a 4k on almost all of your matches by playing fairly, then congratulations You're playing how you want and winning.
But somehow thinking that a scenario where a near 100% win and kill rate… in a pvp game...isn't at least some kind of balance issue means you are likely missing something pretty drastic.
But I suspect none of this is actually real or true in the first place, which is why I consider it to be bait.
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I feel no obligation to throw the game for your achievement. It's an achievement for a reason, because you should actually earn it.
Besides, what's to stop every Myers player from acting like they are going for the achievement to get people to hand them a win.. even if they already have the achievement. It sounds pretty entitled if you're expecting that tombstone Myers should be a guaranteed 4k just because they might need the achievement.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3741421#Comment_3741421
that doesn't make any sense. just because a killer has a perk to 3 gen doesn't make them 3 gen centric. Nemesis comes with eruption and Onryo came with Call of brine, Nemesis is not 3 gen killer.
Did you stop reading after the first sentence?
Knights power is also most about zoning a decent sized area, which was a big reason people started 3 genning as well.
Having a power that specializes in information or just outright denial / free hits for holding a 3 gen is a pretty big deal, especially since the 3 gen meta was widely hated and took far too long to address.
Just because SM ultimately did this better, doesn't mean that knight wasn't also really good at it to begin with. That's not something that doctor, Nemesis, or onryo have.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739221#Comment_3739221
i still don't understand why knight was ever bunched up as 3 gen killer. he is chase killer that rely on summoning to zone survivors. He just isn't particularly fast at downing survivors despite being a killer geared towards chase. He doesn't get rewarded for landing guards on top of the survivor. All the survivors can outrun his guards, so he only ever gets effective when survivors are in the corner and are unable to run away from both him and the guard itself in the pincer. There are pathing and strategies to delay the pincer. Delay it enough while doing gens and he falls flat as a killer.
I don't think more slowdown perks being invented cause perks to get nerfed. Hex:ruin was first slowdown perk to ever be released and it was meta since the very start. Pop goes weasel went into meta as soon as they made it an effective perk. The other slowdown perks introduced alternative options for the killer to select. they keep getting selected because most of BVHR's other killer perks are drastically under-tuned compare to game-delay perks. The other reason why they keep getting selected is that the killer's base game-delay for being successful at the chase is atrociously bad. BVHR still has made little to no attempts to improve the killer's game-delay presence for being effective at playing the killer. as a result, the killer player are forced to use perks to do create game-delay presence. High pick rate leads to high effectiveness rate which leads to nerf's. Just a big giant snowball effect.
Three words:
Nowhere to hide
This perk was the last piece to solidify the cobruption meta that inevitably led to the 3 gen meta as well.
You also have to consider that knight is a zoning killer and the guards can only patrol a limited area. So in addition to the perk, this was one of the killers who excelled at holding down a relatively small area indefinitely (i.e. 3 genning). This wasn't a typical hag or trapper trap you could avoid or disarm, it's a decent area of effect that patrols the area and, at worst, notifies the killer where you are. At best, it takes a health state while the killer patrols the other gen.
So knight was part of the meta problem, and basically a lot of killers had that neuron activation moment that holding games hostage was easier than chase, right at the same time.
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Scratch marks recently got fixed after being busted for almost two years. They were never intended to be a strict path following the survivor, but instead slightly patch and wavering to give a rough guideline of where the survivor went.
Since this bug was recently fixed, it may be contributing to some of the erratic scratch marks people are seeing now.
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@yato said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739785#Comment_3739785
Yeah but ppl in SWF becomes tank, get fast healed maybe with "will make it" then run to get protection hits, force to use DS or get up with unbreakable and then bodyblock again with DH
I have to wonder how many survivors you encounter who are running
- Dead hard
- Off the record
- Decisive strike
- Unbreakable
- Made for this
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740998#Comment_3740998
Pretty sure every statistics would say otherwise though, unless they "evaluated" with just subjective thinking
I mean, the devs have flat out told us they look at pick rate and correlation to escape rate, including how it correlates with the escape rate of your team even if the user isn't escaping personally (old Object).
So there is likely back end data that shows that WoO users and their teams aren't escaping more than other teams. The same can't always be said of something like slowdown, where strong slowdown could single handedly win you the game (cobruption as a strong example).