AlwaysInAGoodShape
AlwaysInAGoodShape
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BY 303Mack:
Since most may label left behind situational or useless, would it be possible for it to be made a little more situational & useful by keeping it exactly how it is but adding a feature where at level 3 it also reveals the hatchs sure to the remaining survivor ? Or it could possibly be similar to wake up but instead it focuses on revealing the hatch to the remaining survivor. Possib so that left behind can be utilized for survivors to possibly great last resort classes or classes for completing enough generators once the other survivors have perished & it's earlier in the game (possibly due to hex, etc).
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BY SpacingLlamas:
Left Behind
You'll get the job done... No matter the cost.
If you are the last Survivor remaining in the trial, for each Generator that needs to be completed, gain a 19/22/25 % bonus to Repair speed.
Have be 100% so its more useful (gens would take 40s to complete) or maybe 125% or 150%. It wouldn't so op cause only the last survivor would get its full effect/usage and doing gens will be possible when being the last one alive. Also possibly show generators auras or the hatch aura or both.
So either 50/75/100% or 100/125/150% bonus.
Perhaps have the last survivor have an increase in movement speed similar to the perk "Hope", this just something extra not needed though.
I know the perk still wont be good and will still be chosen rarely, but it will be much better then its current state. -
BY Entità:
A very few people run Left Behind: the last survivor often looks for the hatch, and a unused perk is a waste of game programming. I suggest a buff: Left Behind should have the secondary effect of disrupting killer's ability to read gens' Auras, when all people except one have been killed.
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I 100% agree that the survivors do not need to see certain things that are currently given to them for free. I personally always wondered why I was notified about Hex: Lullaby before even noticing it's effects.
But you do see the distinction here? The chase icon mechanic is something that is already available to SWF's by definition, whether the game intervenes or not.
Then even if the game has already decided to give normally unavailable information to both type of survivors, we shouldn't let that stop ourselves from introducing and implementing mechanics that breach the gap between SWF's and Solo's, which is our only tool for balancing the game in accordance with the Devs' will?
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Onebreakable
They already changed the name for the French; Unbreakable.
I guess you can't please everybody.
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@ShyN3ko said:
I would say yes , but i cant.
Survivors have tons of informations about everything(Devour Hope,Make your choice,timer from the reverse beartraps, ruin).
Every time they get a warning, what the killer use.
So if this would be the only informations for survivors, i would say yes.
But with the current state, i say no.The problem is that the Devs stated that they won't buff killers for the reason that a majority of the players aren't as good as the gamebreaking SWF's.
SWF's are so strong because they have a better way of communicating, thus giving them many perks for free.
This is what widens the Gap between Solo's and SWF's. In order to create a balanced game, you need to close the gap between the solo's and SWF's which in turn allows the Developers to buff the killers while not disproportionally hurting solo survivors.With a mechanic like this, survivors wouldn't get "Stronger" perse. Only Solo's get disproportionately stronger in comparison with SWF's because this tool allows them to close the gap.
If you want to balance the game, then the only way you can do that (while also convincing the devs) is by closing the gap between the Solo-rookies and the Rank 1 SWF's.
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@George_Soros said:
This should be tested or at least thought over carefully. But I generally support the idea, it would bring soloes closer to SWF.
You'd have to give something to killers in return though. A simple change like that would have a huge impact on gen repair speed, making genrush even more easy than it is now.It wouldn't increase current Genrushers, but it would help players wasting a lot of the time (rank 10-20ers) to play more effeciently. If more players can play well using this and the Devs finally see the 40% escape rate going up among all ranks, then we might finally see the balance we were looking for.
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reads title
The FBI wants to know your location.
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Bruv -
That's bad business practice. And it costs some extra time And it reduces incentives to buy more Auric Cells.
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@Saint_Ukraine said:
I CALLED IT!!Congrats xD they made it within a week of time too.
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@Maelstrom1313
I don't have Leatherface and I can't unlock him with Iredecent shards either.
You can get perks for killers you don't have. I've already seen 3 perks from killers that I don't have but I've just never seen BBQ&Chili. Franklin's demise was on there I think a couple of weeks ago.I missed my opportunity of getting Pharmacy which was on the shrine I think a month ago too so yeah xd
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I don't like the ideas.
Not only are they awful thematically , but balance wise they are unhealthy mechanics and undefined in numbers.
THEME
Good game design is creating systems, ideas and items that have a certain concept behind them relevant to the game you are making. Decisive Strike for example is a typical horror trope where the person escapes the killer's chase. Lockers for example are a famous highschool horror trope and thus we have lockers in the game.But what is the horror theme/idea/trope behind Lockers magically closing? What is the horror theme behind killers teleporting away when a survivor escapes their grasp?
Michael Myers doesn't magically reposition when Laurie Strode outsmarts him for all I know.BALANCE
When it comes to balance, most of the perks seem either completely useless or would be a terrible addition to the game: The perk where you would increase your Gen repairing speed based on having to unhook a survivor is one of those.
If you think this perk convinces people to go for unhooks where they otherwise wouldn't; guess again.
The time they spend unhooking isn't a real "cost" as they benefit from unhooking a survivor and would have to do so anyways. It doesn't matter what number you put there as repairspeed, we don't need more perks helping do Generators faster.
We need tools to slow them down and help lower-survivor count groups ways to complete their objective when multiple people are dead. -
"I do not want the pallets to regenerate for me: many of my threads are not functional to my personal interest, but respond to my desire to see more varieties of play, more tactical opportunities on the field."
More variety of play? Infinite pallet looping kills off any play at all and makes killer unplayable against any survivor who knows the basics of the game.
Survivors already have more pallets than they need. By the time the killer broke the last pallets, 7-8 gens could have been done.
Currently one of the few things that adds some cool gameplay to the game is the second survivor being chased and not knowing which pallets are broken. If they regenerate even this "scouting" play diversity has been killed off.
IN SUMMARY
Pallet Regeneration is conceptually trash and unrealistic and gameplay-wise it only adds to making this game straight up broken in the Survivor's favour as demonstrated by 1000ths of 1000ths of hours of video material.
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I don't like the Hex: Ruin for the first 60 seconds as a fix, even though it would obviously slow the game down by a little bit, it would also:
1. Feel unnatural conceptually why it should be there, as the art of making the game is doing so through conceptually pleasing methods and
2. Good Survivors can just work through Hex: Ruin anyways. Even in games where Hex: Ruin has been up for the entire match, Survivors can still stop a killer with a fat depip.To Get to your second Point about tunneling: YES, I love that... but...
WHY I LOVE YOUR IDEA
As you mentioned, the time you have available to do Gens changes Radically depending on Survivor count. In order for survivors do be able to do generators in the late-game, they would need to be able to do them much faster then they currently can. So if we'd introduce a "Repair Learning" mechanic, then we could make it so that the more you work on a Generator, the faster you become at it. Even in 2 survivor scenario's where they need multiple Gens, they could still work on it > practice > having their Gen regressed > practice more until they can fix it.
So I love your idea, so here's theBUT...
But if you would make the average time it would take to complete ALL generators the SAME with this mechanic, then you completely screw over the last killer's tool to win: to Disable PlayerCharacters as soon as possible (Tunneling).So if bEhaviour would implement such a change, they'd have to be very careful not to ruin the last tools Killers have.
Your mechanic would make it so that (if balanced) less often, survivors would make it out alive, but the ones that stay alive have a bigger chance at winning in the late-game.
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@Entità
You see, giving hook generation to killers =/= giving regeneration to pallets.
If killers get hook generations after sacrifice then this might help then hook a survivor 5 seconds faster because they have to walk slightly shorter, but giving survivor pallet generation makes the game unplayable for killers. (pallets already do)I don't see why, when you love playing stealthy, you'd want there to be more pallets? The developers Bully Stealth oriented players with all type of anti-stealth perks/location revealing perks/abilities/addons etc incentivising survivors to go for endless loops.
If anything, you should advocate for less pellets and more stealthy tools in the game.
Killers don't have that much options against pallets, but all killers would be able to catch a survivor off guard or could stumble upon them, creating more healthy gameplay.Pallets shouldn't respawn; they should be lowered in numbers/ killers should have more tools against them.
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I recommend you watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeWJcSWe-_0and perhaps all the other 99 video's of those series.
You might not be experienced with the game, but survivors have more pallets than the time the Killer has time to chase and break them before the Generators are done.Because pallets are THAT strong, survivors who try their best can DEPIP a killer about over 90% of the matches. The other 10% are shared by Safety PIPS and Single PIPS.
Because the route for looping killers with pallets is already enough to close down the game, MAKING THEM REGENERATE creates an infinite loop in which the survivors won't even have to bother to use their Pallets even slightly efficiently.
It removes any strategy the killer has left, by not allowing killers to guard Generators in Area's where a lot of pallets have ben broken, through which they could've previously punished the survivors for their mistake
If the mechanic that you suggest would be added, then any half-decent survivor would be able to loop the killer infinitely around the map.
The analogy with Hooks is also terrible, not only balance wise but conceptually:
A hook doesn't regenerate when the killer uses it to sacrifice a survivor, so why should a pallet?
To follow your analogy:
A survivor can disable a hook for a limited amount of time, thus so should killers be able to block unused pallets. -
It wouldn't bee too strong at all.
First of all does it require of the killer to regress the generator.
Secondly must the killer be around to hit the survivor, which can loop the killer for most of the game.
The survivor can choose not to touch the generator when knowing the killer is near and waste time while others finish other generators at the minuscule cost that this one keeps regressing.Survivors who are in the Injured State can touch the Gen, basically undoing the effectiveness of the perk.
It's a perk that has counter play and a perk that has some actual use in todays meta.
It fits Amanda perfectly as she can hide her Terror Radius and sneak up on people. She would regress a Gen and pretend to leave it, then when a survivor touches it she Ambushes.
It literally fits Her of all killers the best.
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I love the creature, but frankly the SWF part of this game completely undoes his whole gameplay concept, in a similar way in which Hex: The Third Seal is undone by this.
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@Saint_Ukraine said:
Is this bait?No?
"Don't Be Alone" is a perk that will never be active when being used by Solo-players. Thus, the only valid use for this perk is when playing with SWF's, in which case it's EXTREMELY strong.
SWF's can communicate to come to the same Gen/use the offering to spawn together. They let the killer pass and once the killer has passed each of them does that 1 gen Gen at a (80*1.3 = 62) 62 second individual speed per generator. Thus they will complete a generator within (62/4/0.7) 22.1 second.The killer will not be able to patrol the whole map within that duration, making it so that SWF survivors can start a 1 versus 4 off with 4 Gens by the time anyone has even been caught by the killer.
If anyone would go with the strategy in which "Don't Be Alone" will ever even activate, then they'd probably also run Leader and perhaps, Prove Thyself (with POSSIBLY toolboxes and addons on top of that.)
SWF teams would be able to finish Gens within 10-15 seconds when all grouped.
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Although all of them are buffs, I think you hit the challange the most with:
Dying Light, Monstrous Shrine, Thanatophobia, unnerving Presence and Unrelenting.
In order for any of these perks to work or to compete with Hex: Ruin, you'd need Unnerving Presence to basically be the Doctor's Madness attribute in order for it to be competitive xD
Love your post.
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Do not be alone would ruin the game for killers versing SWF's. SWF's already are nearly unbeatable, but this perk would allow them to finish 1/2 gens before the killer has even found anyone.
The pictures are really cool though.
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The Reckless perk sounds really fun and there is not perk that tackles that subject yet.
Making it so that in cases of camping, the survivors Could sabotage nearby hooks and then go for the save with Reckless really adds to the theme of this "organised and planned save".PERK
When rescuing a survivor from a hook, the hook will break and you suffer from exhaustion for 60/50/40 seconds.
Your unhooking speed is increased by 9 %.You basically nailed it. Love the idea. Upvoted.
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I've suggested a somewhat similar feature, but not in the form of a perk.
The main problem with the current Hex Totems is:
PROBLEM
1. Random Totem spawns can screw over the killer by being placed in an open area or next to a Generator, rendering the perk useless.
2. Random Survivor routing can pay off greatly by stumbling on a Hex Totem that hasn't even been used yet.THE PURPOSE OF HEX TOTEMS
The idea, which I think we can all agree, behind Hex totems is that they are perks that are stronger than permanent perks, but should be destructible once the survivors are confronted with it's consequences.POSSIBLE FIX
Fixing an issue with Hex totems through perks is a bad Idea in my opinion. Such design flaws should be tackled differently. My proposal looks somewhat similar to yours:- When you run a Hex perk, the Hex ties itself to a Dull totem.
- The candle of a Hex totem will ONLY burn whenever in the radius of the killer.
With this mechanic, you don't know if you're wasting time by doing a dull totem, so you might pass it, as the killer might not even have a Hex totem equipped at all. Once you become aware of a Hex perk's presence, THEN you will have an incentive to cleanse the totems. If the survivors cleanse the totems anyways, then they might just have wasted valuable time on something that achieves nothing.
This solves the problem of Bad Totem spawns, and random survivor pathing.
IF THAT WASN'T ENOUGH ALREADY
You can make it so that "totems depreciate in strength".
The time it takes to cleanse a Dull&Hex totem (you wouldn't be able to tell the difference without the killers terror radius) will slowly decrease overtime to a capped minimum. This will incentivise players to not randomly work on Dull Totems at the start, as they are rewarded for doing it later, when the Cleanse Time is reduced.For Details on how that'd work:
CODE
float cleanseTime; //Time it takes a survivor to cleanse a totem.
float minCleanseTime; //The minimal time it should be allowed to take to cleanse a totem.
float maxCleanseTime; //The time it should take for a totem to be cleansed at the exact start of the match.
float differenceTime; //contains the value of MaxCleanseTime - MinCleanseTime.
float totemGameDuration; //amount of seconds it should take before you reach minCleanseTime.FunctionCalledAtTheStartOfTheMatch()
{
maxCleanseTime = 25;
minCleanseTime = 10;
differenceTime = maxCleanseTime - minCleanseTime;
cleanseTime = maxCleanseTime;
totemGameDuration = 600 //in seconds, thus 10 minutes.
}FunctionCalledPerFrame()
{
ChangeCleanseTime();
}ChangeCleanseTime()
{
if(cleanseTime > minCleanseTime)
{
cleanseTime = cleanseTime - differenceTime/totemGameDuration * deltaTime;
}
}Now use the value of cleanseTime at the moment the survivor starts working on a totem and you're set.
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I believe a killer should be easy to understand conceptually so here's my attempt at it:
REMOVED: Freddy can see survivor's aura in the dreamworld (at x distance)
REMOVED: Survivors can wake up by failing Skill Checks.REMAINING: Survivors can ONLY wake up, by having an "Awake" survivor wake them up, or by being hooked.
NEW: Freddy has a Terror Radius of 0 in the dreamworld.
NEW: While a survivor is asleep, their action speed is reduced by 15%Get the main theme here? It's all about survivors trying to avoid being put to sleep, as they need other survivors to be awake in order to wake up again.
No terror radius?; Just like in the movies, he's just "there" all of the sudden.
If he manages to put asleep multiple survivors then he doesn't have to worry about them waking up without a cost. They need to find their teammates or you managed to slow the game down while you change other survivors. -
@Aerys
To quickly mention the Marth88 reference; he is a youtuber who played over 100 survivor games to demonstrate how imbalanced the game was in favor of survivors. In almost all of those 100 games Hex Ruin was active for the full duration of the match and no killer in all the matches has managed to score even a 4 Kill game, not even a 5 blink nurse. Among the 100 matches only 3 killers got a 3 kill and Almost all killers Depipped.The "Allow half the Cleansed progress to be kept upon breaking away." could be added, but simply better hiding spots will do little for Hex Totems, as reasonable players will know where to look, even when not necessarily scouting for hex totems.
You will still have the chance to randomly spawn close to a Hex Totem and nullify the use of your perk before anything happened. Because the timer doesn't reset, there is no real way a killer can defend the totem as they don't have a regress option for Hex totems. -
Mission Failed, we'll get 'em next time
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Hex Ruin
But if it requires you to run Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, a second perk, in order to increase the duration of the Totem by 7.5 seconds (Up to 37.5 seconds if you find Ruin last) and doing the totems at the very 0th second of the match, wouldn't that be a quite balanced perk & combination? Considering that these MAX 37.5 seconds are slightly less then kicking a Gen with Pop Goes The Weasel 2 times?Then to consider that Thrill of The Hunt would, on average stall only about half of the 37.5 seconds, being 18.75 seconds and at this point we are still calculating it at the 0th second of the match? With on top of that the "Depip Squad" of Marth88 showing us that RUIN can be completely ignored and the match still easily won.
Haunted Grounds
This was the whole point of your post; To make it harder to cleanse totems. It doesn't matter how you put it; The easier it is to find and destroy a hex totem, the better haunted grounds gets. The opposite does the opposite.If haunted grounds wouldn't get worse with your change then it probably wasn't worth changing in the first place.
I quote from the original post:
"So, in this thread I will go over what we can do to address that and other things to make Hexes more viable in the long run, and discuss some potential Hexes that help other Hexes out even."NOED
Against a good team, the game can end within 5 minutes. That means that it will take 17.5 seconds in these Gen rush cases, meaning that NOED is actually more viable than it is, but unlike the old system, if the game is not a gen-rush and plays out over a longer period of time, it only seems healthy that the Survivors can get rid of the NOED slightly faster. (4 seconds) Though they will spend most of their time trying to find it anyways.I don't see how this change would negatively influence current Hex perks, with the exception of Haunted Grounds, but that was the whole point.
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When it comes to 3 Survivor 4 Gen-games a lot of more laid-back survivor teams will singlehandedly lose the game off of the fact that 1 survivor left.
The problem however is that while 1 survivor is getting chased, each other survivor having to do 2 Gens isn't unreasonable from a competitive standpoint.
If the devs want to fix the Gen count (and pander to the majority, which isn't always bad) in these type of scenario's then they break that competitive balance once again.
So even if it would feel nice for the majority of the survivors to not feel like you lost by the mere fact of having 3 Survivor 4 Gens or 2 Survivor 3 Gens (Which I think is objectively worse), there is still a consideration to be made.
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What if we'd use as I suggested and make the cleansing time a variable that changes based on game duration, as if "the totems grow old and feeble".
You can play around with the numbers, but say: 25 seconds at the start down to a mere 10 seconds at 10 minutes decreasing linearly?
float Y = 25;
If(Y > 10)
{
Y = Y - (15/600) * delta time;
}Y = The Cleansing Time it requires to destroy a Totem.
25 = Starting Cleansing speed.
15 = Difference between Starting cleansing speed and end cleansing speed. (25-10)
600 = amount of seconds at which you should reach your Shortest possible cleansing speed.
10 = Minimal duration for cleansing.
delta time = time in between frames. (as this will most likely placed in an update function)Because of the terror radius mechanic you will not Randomly stumble upon a Hex Totem due to bad placement
AND
you are incentivised to start cleansing Totems at a later duration in the game in order to maximise time efficiency.Maybe that solves it?
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One of the bigger problems I see is that if you run a perk like Hex: Devour Hope, is that when a survivor Randomly runs across it, you will lose your perk to this randomness, even without the survivors knowing that you even used a hex perk.
What about a solution where we fix this randomness of finding a Hex Totem before you were even able to use it due to this randomness and making it so that the typical survivor only starts working on a Hex Totem AFTER they have noticed it's effects:
SOLUTION
The candle of a Hex perk only turns on while within the killers terror radius. While outside of the killer terror radius, the survivor has no visual clues to differentiate between a hex totem and a dull totem.This means that if you randomly run around the map, all you'll see is your usual Dull Totem. If you know there is a Hex totem then you might want to start to work on the Dull totems, or when the killer is near, you know which dull totems to skip as they didn't light up.
I think this is a better way to counter the Randomness of a survivor stumbling on your Hex totem as often, good survivors know where the spots are anyways and without being aware, you'll likely not start working on all random Dull totems they come across, but wait it out a little bit.
This solution will also come with interesting killer interactions, such as Wraith or Pig being able to hide their terror radius while not in a chase, michael myers Tear 1 spoopy builds and it actually Buffs freddy!
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@Raptorrotas said:
Wouldnt an increase in skillcheck frequency that high enable skilled survivors to rush through gens with lots of greats skillchecks?Im reminded of those 25 seconds bnp.
If great players would be able to hit these great skillchecks that often (and seeing Marth88's gameplay, he too fails a fat bad skill check for trying to do so from time to time) then people would run Hex Ruin more often, maybe with an added Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt. If a killer defends the hex ruin decently then the perk would still do more harm then good, and the 60% extra good skill checks costing 7 seconds will not make up for the 1.6 second bonuses that they might hit, by the time Ruin is gone.
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@Milo said:
And Autodidact would be bonkersNot particularly considering that you run 2 perks for it.
You'll basically have a 100% functioning autodidact and a 60% functioning autodidact.
Having 2 autodidacts would be stronger. -
Favorite Perk: Ace In The Hole.
It feels so naice scooping for candies on my items.Favorite Built:
Plunderers Instinct, Ace In The Hole, Selfcare, Urban Evasion.It's all about getting in without items and bringing home that juice.
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He's coming for you. -
@Poweas said:
No 24 was the old one. With self care it heals at 50% of the BASE healing speed. You heal with self care for 32 seconds. Honestly just run bond and get teammates to heal u.Don't run Bond to get your teammates to heal you. Healing yourself at a base-speed of 50% is always better, no matter the duration of the heal.
the 32 seconds of selfheal (wasting 32 seconds of your time) is still better than healing for 16 seconds for 2 players adding up to a total of 32 seconds wasted and having to run to the same healing spot.
With selfcare, the other player can start doing the objective instead of wasting time to run to a safe healspot.
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The problem is that NO ONE will ever even use a "Find the survivor" perk so conditionally as Surveillance in it's base state or in the suggested changes.
Survivors are NOT hard to find! That is why ALL META PERKS are perks revolving around:
1. Anti-Looping
2. Insta Downing
3. Regressing Generators.So in order to make Surveillance a perk that you would ACTUALLY consider picking, try this:
Surveillance
When a survivor starts working on a Regressing Generator, they will suffer the Exposed status effect for 20/30/40 seconds."Are you gonna behave?" — Amanda Young
NOW you have a perk.
It'll be harder for survivors to troll killers by directly touching their Gen after it has been kicked and it fits perfectly with the Surveillance theme, but this time you have to consider, as a survivor, whether the killer is looking over this Gen, because if they are, you might hear Amanda's ambush sound shortly after you touch it.
Has great synergy with Pop Goes The Weasel and can actually compete with current perks and has counter play.
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@Vietfox said:
Would be nice against Freddy.SHHHHHHHT
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@pandorayr said:
- Finally, making the detection and stealth perks more appealing might lead some survivors to RENOUNCE (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHA u make my laugh git gud bro) other powerful perks (Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst, Unbreakable, for example)
more making OP survivors? NO THANKS.
DS remove
The thing is, it wouldn't make survivors more OP, because survivors use the most OP perks. It would only create more perk diversity because their powers are more balanced among the sea of perks.
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@Dreamnomad said:
This is what I would like to see done with Surveillance.Surveillance- Unlocks potential on one's aura reading abilities. The last regressing generator reveals the auras of survivors within 6/10/14 meters. Once the exit gates are powered all generators reveal the auras of survivors within 6/10/14 meters.
The problem with all those survivor location perks is, that it it barely their location that matters, but your ability to catch them. As long as the main idea of the perk is to "track" someone, then it will be #########.
That is why all META perks either slow down the game or help you kill faster, through added killing power or anti-loop.My suggestion would be:
Surveillance:
After the survivor touches a regressing Gen, they gain the Exposed status effect for 20/30/40 seconds.
"Are you gonna behave?" — Amanda YoungThis way it's actually a perk that matches the theme of Surveilling, because if the killer is surveilling you and you think you're funny by quickly touching that Gen, then you will be punished.
(Synergized great with Pop Goes The Weasel, and it would feel so good to see survivors hopping on a regressing Gen and getting ambushed by Amanda.) -
Perk Philosophy: Every perk should have a specific use or problem that it helps resolve. Let's, for Surveillance solve the problem of a Survivor continuously touching regressing gens while the killer desperately keeps kicking it.
Surveillance:
After a Survivor touches a regressing Generator, they suffer from the exposed effect for 20/30/40 seconds.
"Are you gonna behave?" — Amanda YoungNormally when you see a regressing Generator, your first instinct is to give it a quick touch. Surveillance forces you to think twice about your actions; "Is the killer close?... Is the killer Surveilling this generator?".
And Boom. You have a perk that matches the concept while simultanuously addressing a part of the game that hasn't previously been touched: An incentive not to touch a regressing Gen. Or well... At least with some careful considerations. -
The hatch conditions are theoretically not free, but practically are.
You need a VERY suicidal team in order to have 3 of them die before you have 2 gens done. (80 seconds or at worst 160 seconds.)I am often able to do is all alone, and you have 3 other teammates!
What you call "Conditions" are basically non-conditions, as much as you can say the hatch isn't a free mechanic because you need a copy of this game installed before you can use the hatch.
These type of conditions are almost always met, or are nearly deliberately avoided.As an answer to the main post:
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM DEFINITION----------------------------------------------------------- Once your teammates die, winning becomes significantly harder, making you dependant on strangers, which isn't fun.
- Generator REGRESSION disables any opportunity for low-survivor-count generator progression and stealth gameplay.
- This lead to a hatch mechanic which caused a giant disparity in winrate between 2 survivors and 1 survivor:
(Conditions with multiple generators measured in Survivors Alive)
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Practically impossibleinto
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Easily winnable.meaning that if there were 2 survivors, they would wait out the death of another.
- It created the hatch standoff, where it would require 1 to be a "sweety" and let the other win or get the kill.
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM ANALYSIS------------------------------------------------------------
ANALYSIS to problem 1:
The main issue here is that there is a great impact on the total survivor's efficiency once a survivor dies. If you thought losing 25% of your working force wasn't enough... it is actually worse.There are multiple stages in the match cycle:
Stage 1: All 4 survivors are working on Gens. 100% efficiency.
Stage 2: 1 Survivor has been found and is now looping: 75% efficiency.
Stage 3: 1 Survivor has been caught and requires another survivor for the rescue and heal. 50% efficiency.
Stage 4: It is possible that a new survivor has been found and lasts long enough for the other surv to be healed, meaning they return to a 75% efficiency after the heal.
Stage 5: A survivor dies: 75% efficiency.
Stage 6: A survivor gets found and is now looping: 50% efficiency.
Stage 7: The survivor needs to be rescued and healed. while another survivor is being looped. 0-50% efficiency.The game has to be balanced around these stages and they affect the outcome greatly.
The death of 1 survivor early can mean a difference between a 75% efficiency and a 25% efficiency.
Once there are 3 survivors, certain teams already get into the loop of getting caught > rescue > healing > getting caught and no one is doing gens anymore.So you have a bad team? You are doomed without the hatch.
ANALYSIS to problem 2:
Generator regression is a great mechanic for killers to stall some extra time against the horse of 4 living survivors trying to scape as fast as possible and is certainly something a killer needs in their battle against short Gen times.
But once the 1st and perhaps second survivor dies, it is this mechanic that completely kills the ability for survivors to make their escape through doing multiple Gens in the late game.
Normally it would be possible to sneak around a bit. Progress generators in small pieces with the killer noticing small increases in progression, but that is no longer possible.
Generator REGRESSION forces you to Install yourself right next to a Gen until you are caught.
The sparks or lack of it directly indicate that you've touched it, notifying the killer that you are here in the area, whereas no regression mechanic wouldn't have revealed you if you only touched the Gen for a bit. The killer wouldn't have noticed a change in progress, allowing you to be sneaky.ANALYSIS to problem 3:
The disparity between 1 and 2 survivors surviving with multiple gens is HUGE... and it is HUGE in the favour of 1 survivor. Once 2 teammates die with multiple gens, there is no way you will finish the others: Both of you are aware... one of you needs to die.
This problem is part of Problem 2. where slowly working on generators without regression would have actually given a 2 man team a decent chance to make it out together.Because both survivors know they can't, they will either work on a Gen of which they know they won't be able to finish or they will hide and wait for the other player to die. This is no healthy gameplay.
ANALYSIS to problem 4: The hatch standoff is a problem due to the killer being able to block it in case they find it first. The killer can also grab the survivor, preventing them from being able to jump in if they are standing right on it.
On the other hand there is a problem of the hatch being considered a too easy way to escape.
So let's find a middle ground!----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM SOLUTION-----------------------------------------------------------
SOLUTION to problem 1:
The solution to problem 1, being dependant on other survivors, can be solved by addressing the solutions in problem 2,3 and 4!SOLUTION to problem 2:
In one of my discussions called something along the lines of"complete survivor perk overhaul", I reworked the perk called Technician in order to give it purpose. I gave it purpose by having it tackle exactly this problem:Technician:
You are apt at handling machinery with the greatest care and precision.
Generators that you last worked on cannot be slowly regressed.
Generators that you repaired over a 95% will automatically be completed after a 10/15/20 second delay.
Details:
Technician only works if you were the last to touch a certain Gen. If multiple people work on it and you leave if before the others do, then the Gen can still regress.
The Killer can still kick that Gen but no sparks will be on that gen. It will not give the killer any points.
Pop Goes The Weasel will still regress the Gen, but no further regression will occur after.Now players will be able to play their late-game stealth builds if they wish to do so and could even with without the hatch by letting only the technician work on the Gen's or staying together.
SOLUTION to problem 3:
The Technician rework solves this issue of 2 survivors having to wait each others' death out. If they do not run the perk, they have accepted these terms.SOLUTION to problem 4:
-Every map spawns 4 chests, but 1 chest has a special appearance and Contains a "Rusty Key".
-The rusty key's effects only come into play when there is only 1 remaining survivor!!!;
-Whoever wields this key will be downed in 1 hit and can be moried after.
-The key is a special item: It doesn't take up your 1 and only item slot.
-The key cannot normally be dropped. It is automatically dropped upon: Being hooked/Upon Dying/Franklins Demise.
-The key can only be used to open the Hatch (when you are the last living survivor).
-The key is dropped upon leaving through the exit gates and is consumed upon entering the hatch.
-The rusty key can open the hatch even while in the downed state.Now here is how the hatch will work:
-Once you are the only survivor, a hatch opens, making it's usual sound.
-A killer can close the hatch, removing the sound and forcing the survivor to search harder + find the Rusty Key.
-A killer cannot grab a survivor entering the hatch.
-A killer standing on the hatch will not prevent the survivor from entering.So there is no longer a hatch stand-off; A survivor can just Run to the hatch and once they arrive there and/or manage to be downed close enough to it, they win.
But due to the Rusty Key mechanic, IF the killer manages to find the hatch first, they will have a great advantage over the fight. It will take the survivor significantly longer to find it, and in order to now be able to open it, they NEED a key that will give them the EXPOSED effect. This allows the killer to guard the hatch and manage to get the kill if they manage to hit the survivor a few meters away from the hatch.
A free mori for good measure and that settles the Hatch problem.THE END~
(And for people interested in some game-play details as a result from these machanics:
In funny cases, a survivor will have takes the Rusty Key away from the chest, forcing you to look around hooks or memorizing where someone bled out/got moried.
These type of scenario's can be frustrating in a very thematically fitting way; "I can't find the key".If the killer found the hatch first and you find the Rusty Key, then it is your mission to sneak up to the hatch (and possibly killer), as even though you can enter it without being stopped, you can be downed before reaching it.
Deliberately remaining in the dying state to dead hard your way into the hatch is a strategy you can use in open-field hatches where it is harder to sneak in. A quick juke or 360 may be the difference between life and death. -
The hatch conditions are theoretically not free, but practically are.
You need a VERY suicidal team in order to have 3 of them die before you have 2 gens done. (80 seconds or at worst 160 seconds.)I am often able to do is all alone, and you have 3 other teammates!
What you call "Conditions" are basically non-conditions, as much as you can say the hatch isn't a free mechanic because you need a copy of this game installed before you can use the hatch.
These type of conditions are almost always met, or are nearly deliberately avoided.As an answer to the main post:
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM DEFINITION----------------------------------------------------------- Once your teammates die, winning becomes significantly harder, making you dependant on strangers, which isn't fun.
- Generator REGRESSION disables any opportunity for low-survivor-count generator progression and stealth gameplay.
- This lead to a hatch mechanic which caused a giant disparity in winrate between 2 survivors and 1 survivor:
(Conditions with multiple generators measured in Survivors Alive)
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Practically impossibleinto
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Easily winnable.meaning that if there were 2 survivors, they would wait out the death of another.
- It created the hatch standoff, where it would require 1 to be a "sweety" and let the other win or get the kill.
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM ANALYSIS------------------------------------------------------------
ANALYSIS to problem 1:
The main issue here is that there is a great impact on the total survivor's efficiency once a survivor dies. If you thought losing 25% of your working force wasn't enough... it is actually worse.There are multiple stages in the match cycle:
Stage 1: All 4 survivors are working on Gens. 100% efficiency.
Stage 2: 1 Survivor has been found and is now looping: 75% efficiency.
Stage 3: 1 Survivor has been caught and requires another survivor for the rescue and heal. 50% efficiency.
Stage 4: It is possible that a new survivor has been found and lasts long enough for the other surv to be healed, meaning they return to a 75% efficiency after the heal.
Stage 5: A survivor dies: 75% efficiency.
Stage 6: A survivor gets found and is now looping: 50% efficiency.
Stage 7: The survivor needs to be rescued and healed. while another survivor is being looped. 0-50% efficiency.The game has to be balanced around these stages and they affect the outcome greatly.
The death of 1 survivor early can mean a difference between a 75% efficiency and a 25% efficiency.
Once there are 3 survivors, certain teams already get into the loop of getting caught > rescue > healing > getting caught and no one is doing gens anymore.So you have a bad team? You are doomed without the hatch.
ANALYSIS to problem 2:
Generator regression is a great mechanic for killers to stall some extra time against the horse of 4 living survivors trying to scape as fast as possible and is certainly something a killer needs in their battle against short Gen times.
But once the 1st and perhaps second survivor dies, it is this mechanic that completely kills the ability for survivors to make their escape through doing multiple Gens in the late game.
Normally it would be possible to sneak around a bit. Progress generators in small pieces with the killer noticing small increases in progression, but that is no longer possible.
Generator REGRESSION forces you to Install yourself right next to a Gen until you are caught.
The sparks or lack of it directly indicate that you've touched it, notifying the killer that you are here in the area, whereas no regression mechanic wouldn't have revealed you if you only touched the Gen for a bit. The killer wouldn't have noticed a change in progress, allowing you to be sneaky.ANALYSIS to problem 3:
The disparity between 1 and 2 survivors surviving with multiple gens is HUGE... and it is HUGE in the favour of 1 survivor. Once 2 teammates die with multiple gens, there is no way you will finish the others: Both of you are aware... one of you needs to die.
This problem is part of Problem 2. where slowly working on generators without regression would have actually given a 2 man team a decent chance to make it out together.Because both survivors know they can't, they will either work on a Gen of which they know they won't be able to finish or they will hide and wait for the other player to die. This is no healthy gameplay.
ANALYSIS to problem 4: The hatch standoff is a problem due to the killer being able to block it in case they find it first. The killer can also grab the survivor, preventing them from being able to jump in if they are standing right on it.
On the other hand there is a problem of the hatch being considered a too easy way to escape.
So let's find a middle ground!----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM SOLUTION-----------------------------------------------------------
SOLUTION to problem 1:
The solution to problem 1, being dependant on other survivors, can be solved by addressing the solutions in problem 2,3 and 4!SOLUTION to problem 2:
In one of my discussions called something along the lines of"complete survivor perk overhaul", I reworked the perk called Technician in order to give it purpose. I gave it purpose by having it tackle exactly this problem:Technician:
You are apt at handling machinery with the greatest care and precision.
Generators that you last worked on cannot be slowly regressed.
Generators that you repaired over a 95% will automatically be completed after a 10/15/20 second delay.
Details:
Technician only works if you were the last to touch a certain Gen. If multiple people work on it and you leave if before the others do, then the Gen can still regress.
The Killer can still kick that Gen but no sparks will be on that gen. It will not give the killer any points.
Pop Goes The Weasel will still regress the Gen, but no further regression will occur after.Now players will be able to play their late-game stealth builds if they wish to do so and could even with without the hatch by letting only the technician work on the Gen's or staying together.
SOLUTION to problem 3:
The Technician rework solves this issue of 2 survivors having to wait each others' death out. If they do not run the perk, they have accepted these terms.SOLUTION to problem 4:
-Every map spawns 4 chests, but 1 chest has a special appearance and Contains a "Rusty Key".
-The rusty key's effects only come into play when there is only 1 remaining survivor!!!;
-Whoever wields this key will be downed in 1 hit and can be moried after.
-The key is a special item: It doesn't take up your 1 and only item slot.
-The key cannot normally be dropped. It is automatically dropped upon: Being hooked/Upon Dying/Franklins Demise.
-The key can only be used to open the Hatch (when you are the last living survivor).
-The key is dropped upon leaving through the exit gates and is consumed upon entering the hatch.
-The rusty key can open the hatch even while in the downed state.Now here is how the hatch will work:
-Once you are the only survivor, a hatch opens, making it's usual sound.
-A killer can close the hatch, removing the sound and forcing the survivor to search harder + find the Rusty Key.
-A killer cannot grab a survivor entering the hatch.
-A killer standing on the hatch will not prevent the survivor from entering.So there is no longer a hatch stand-off; A survivor can just Run to the hatch and once they arrive there and/or manage to be downed close enough to it, they win.
But due to the Rusty Key mechanic, IF the killer manages to find the hatch first, they will have a great advantage over the fight. It will take the survivor significantly longer to find it, and in order to now be able to open it, they NEED a key that will give them the EXPOSED effect. This allows the killer to guard the hatch and manage to get the kill if they manage to hit the survivor a few meters away from the hatch.
A free mori for good measure and that settles the Hatch problem.THE END~
(And for people interested in some game-play details as a result from these machanics:
In funny cases, a survivor will have takes the Rusty Key away from the chest, forcing you to look around hooks or memorizing where someone bled out/got moried.
These type of scenario's can be frustrating in a very thematically fitting way; "I can't find the key".If the killer found the hatch first and you find the Rusty Key, then it is your mission to sneak up to the hatch (and possibly killer), as even though you can enter it without being stopped, you can be downed before reaching it.
Deliberately remaining in the dying state to dead hard your way into the hatch is a strategy you can use in open-field hatches where it is harder to sneak in. A quick juke or 360 may be the difference between life and death. -
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM DEFINITION----------------------------------------------------------
- Once your teammates die, winning becomes significantly harder, making you dependant on strangers, which isn't fun.
- Generator REGRESSION disables any opportunity for low-survivor-count generator progression and stealth gameplay.
- This lead to a hatch mechanic which caused a giant disparity in winrate between 2 survivors and 1 survivor:
(Conditions with multiple generators measured in Survivors Alive)
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Practically impossibleinto
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Easily winnable.meaning that if there were 2 survivors, they would wait out the death of another.
- It created the hatch standoff, where it would require 1 to be a "sweety" and let the other win or get the kill.
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM ANALYSIS------------------------------------------------------------
ANALYSIS to problem 1:
The main issue here is that there is a great impact on the total survivor's efficiency once a survivor dies. If you thought losing 25% of your working force wasn't enough... it is actually worse.There are multiple stages in the match cycle:
Stage 1: All 4 survivors are working on Gens. 100% efficiency.
Stage 2: 1 Survivor has been found and is now looping: 75% efficiency.
Stage 3: 1 Survivor has been caught and requires another survivor for the rescue and heal. 50% efficiency.
Stage 4: It is possible that a new survivor has been found and lasts long enough for the other surv to be healed, meaning they return to a 75% efficiency after the heal.
Stage 5: A survivor dies: 75% efficiency.
Stage 6: A survivor gets found and is now looping: 50% efficiency.
Stage 7: The survivor needs to be rescued and healed. while another survivor is being looped. 0-50% efficiency.The game has to be balanced around these stages and they affect the outcome greatly.
The death of 1 survivor early can mean a difference between a 75% efficiency and a 25% efficiency.
Once there are 3 survivors, certain teams already get into the loop of getting caught > rescue > healing > getting caught and no one is doing gens anymore.So you have a bad team? You are doomed without the hatch.
ANALYSIS to problem 2:
Generator regression is a great mechanic for killers to stall some extra time against the horse of 4 living survivors trying to scape as fast as possible and is certainly something a killer needs in their battle against short Gen times.
But once the 1st and perhaps second survivor dies, it is this mechanic that completely kills the ability for survivors to make their escape through doing multiple Gens in the late game.
Normally it would be possible to sneak around a bit. Progress generators in small pieces with the killer noticing small increases in progression, but that is no longer possible.
Generator REGRESSION forces you to Install yourself right next to a Gen until you are caught.
The sparks or lack of it directly indicate that you've touched it, notifying the killer that you are here in the area, whereas no regression mechanic wouldn't have revealed you if you only touched the Gen for a bit. The killer wouldn't have noticed a change in progress, allowing you to be sneaky.ANALYSIS to problem 3:
The disparity between 1 and 2 survivors surviving with multiple gens is HUGE... and it is HUGE in the favour of 1 survivor. Once 2 teammates die with multiple gens, there is no way you will finish the others: Both of you are aware... one of you needs to die.
This problem is part of Problem 2. where slowly working on generators without regression would have actually given a 2 man team a decent chance to make it out together.Because both survivors know they can't, they will either work on a Gen of which they know they won't be able to finish or they will hide and wait for the other player to die. This is no healthy gameplay.
ANALYSIS to problem 4: The hatch standoff is a problem due to the killer being able to block it in case they find it first. The killer can also grab the survivor, preventing them from being able to jump in if they are standing right on it.
On the other hand there is a problem of the hatch being considered a too easy way to escape.
So let's find a middle ground!----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM SOLUTION-----------------------------------------------------------
SOLUTION to problem 1:
The solution to problem 1, being dependant on other survivors, can be solved by addressing the solutions in problem 2,3 and 4!SOLUTION to problem 2:
In one of my discussions called something along the lines of"complete survivor perk overhaul", I reworked the perk called Technician in order to give it purpose. I gave it purpose by having it tackle exactly this problem:Technician:
You are apt at handling machinery with the greatest care and precision.
Generators that you last worked on cannot be slowly regressed.
Generators that you repaired over a 95% will automatically be completed after a 10/15/20 second delay.
Details:
Technician only works if you were the last to touch a certain Gen. If multiple people work on it and you leave if before the others do, then the Gen can still regress.
The Killer can still kick that Gen but no sparks will be on that gen. It will not give the killer any points.
Pop Goes The Weasel will still regress the Gen, but no further regression will occur after.Now players will be able to play their late-game stealth builds if they wish to do so and could even with without the hatch by letting only the technician work on the Gen's or staying together.
SOLUTION to problem 3:
The Technician rework solves this issue of 2 survivors having to wait each others' death out. If they do not run the perk, they have accepted these terms.SOLUTION to problem 4:
-Every map spawns 4 chests, but 1 chest has a special appearance and Contains a "Rusty Key".
-The rusty key's effects only come into play when there is only 1 remaining survivor!!!;
-Whoever wields this key will be downed in 1 hit and can be moried after.
-The key is a special item: It doesn't take up your 1 and only item slot.
-The key cannot normally be dropped. It is automatically dropped upon: Being hooked/Upon Dying/Franklins Demise.
-The key can only be used to open the Hatch (when you are the last living survivor).
-The key is dropped upon leaving through the exit gates and is consumed upon entering the hatch.
-The rusty key can open the hatch even while in the downed state.Now here is how the hatch will work:
-Once you are the only survivor, a hatch opens, making it's usual sound.
-A killer can close the hatch, removing the sound and forcing the survivor to search harder + find the Rusty Key.
-A killer cannot grab a survivor entering the hatch.
-A killer standing on the hatch will not prevent the survivor from entering.So there is no longer a hatch stand-off; A survivor can just Run to the hatch and once they arrive there and/or manage to be downed close enough to it, they win.
But due to the Rusty Key mechanic, IF the killer manages to find the hatch first, they will have a great advantage over the fight. It will take the survivor significantly longer to find it, and in order to now be able to open it, they NEED a key that will give them the EXPOSED effect. This allows the killer to guard the hatch and manage to get the kill if they manage to hit the survivor a few meters away from the hatch.
A free mori for good measure and that settles the Hatch problem.THE END~
(And for people interested in some game-play details as a result from these machanics:
In funny cases, a survivor will have takes the Rusty Key away from the chest, forcing you to look around hooks or memorizing where someone bled out/got moried.
These type of scenario's can be frustrating in a very thematically fitting way; "I can't find the key".If the killer found the hatch first and you find the Rusty Key, then it is your mission to sneak up to the hatch (and possibly killer), as even though you can enter it without being stopped, you can be downed before reaching it.
Deliberately remaining in the dying state to dead hard your way into the hatch is a strategy you can use in open-field hatches where it is harder to sneak in. A quick juke or 360 may be the difference between life and death. -
The hatch conditions are theoretically not free, but practically are.
You need a VERY suicidal team in order to have 3 of them die before you have 2 gens done. (80 seconds or at worst 160 seconds.)I am often able to do is all alone, and you have 3 other teammates!
What you call "Conditions" are basically non-conditions, as much as you can say the hatch isn't a free mechanic because you need a copy of this game installed before you can use the hatch.
These type of conditions are almost always met, or are nearly deliberately avoided.As an answer to the main post:
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM DEFINITION----------------------------------------------------------- Once your teammates die, winning becomes significantly harder, making you dependant on strangers, which isn't fun.
- Generator REGRESSION disables any opportunity for low-survivor-count generator progression and stealth gameplay.
- This lead to a hatch mechanic which caused a giant disparity in winrate between 2 survivors and 1 survivor:
(Conditions with multiple generators measured in Survivors Alive)
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Practically impossibleinto
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Easily winnable.meaning that if there were 2 survivors, they would wait out the death of another.
- It created the hatch standoff, where it would require 1 to be a "sweety" and let the other win or get the kill.
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM ANALYSIS------------------------------------------------------------
ANALYSIS to problem 1:
The main issue here is that there is a great impact on the total survivor's efficiency once a survivor dies. If you thought losing 25% of your working force wasn't enough... it is actually worse.There are multiple stages in the match cycle:
Stage 1: All 4 survivors are working on Gens. 100% efficiency.
Stage 2: 1 Survivor has been found and is now looping: 75% efficiency.
Stage 3: 1 Survivor has been caught and requires another survivor for the rescue and heal. 50% efficiency.
Stage 4: It is possible that a new survivor has been found and lasts long enough for the other surv to be healed, meaning they return to a 75% efficiency after the heal.
Stage 5: A survivor dies: 75% efficiency.
Stage 6: A survivor gets found and is now looping: 50% efficiency.
Stage 7: The survivor needs to be rescued and healed. while another survivor is being looped. 0-50% efficiency.The game has to be balanced around these stages and they affect the outcome greatly.
The death of 1 survivor early can mean a difference between a 75% efficiency and a 25% efficiency.
Once there are 3 survivors, certain teams already get into the loop of getting caught > rescue > healing > getting caught and no one is doing gens anymore.So you have a bad team? You are doomed without the hatch.
ANALYSIS to problem 2:
Generator regression is a great mechanic for killers to stall some extra time against the horse of 4 living survivors trying to scape as fast as possible and is certainly something a killer needs in their battle against short Gen times.
But once the 1st and perhaps second survivor dies, it is this mechanic that completely kills the ability for survivors to make their escape through doing multiple Gens in the late game.
Normally it would be possible to sneak around a bit. Progress generators in small pieces with the killer noticing small increases in progression, but that is no longer possible.
Generator REGRESSION forces you to Install yourself right next to a Gen until you are caught.
The sparks or lack of it directly indicate that you've touched it, notifying the killer that you are here in the area, whereas no regression mechanic wouldn't have revealed you if you only touched the Gen for a bit. The killer wouldn't have noticed a change in progress, allowing you to be sneaky.ANALYSIS to problem 3:
The disparity between 1 and 2 survivors surviving with multiple gens is HUGE... and it is HUGE in the favour of 1 survivor. Once 2 teammates die with multiple gens, there is no way you will finish the others: Both of you are aware... one of you needs to die.
This problem is part of Problem 2. where slowly working on generators without regression would have actually given a 2 man team a decent chance to make it out together.Because both survivors know they can't, they will either work on a Gen of which they know they won't be able to finish or they will hide and wait for the other player to die. This is no healthy gameplay.
ANALYSIS to problem 4: The hatch standoff is a problem due to the killer being able to block it in case they find it first. The killer can also grab the survivor, preventing them from being able to jump in if they are standing right on it.
On the other hand there is a problem of the hatch being considered a too easy way to escape.
So let's find a middle ground!----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM SOLUTION-----------------------------------------------------------
SOLUTION to problem 1:
The solution to problem 1, being dependant on other survivors, can be solved by addressing the solutions in problem 2,3 and 4!SOLUTION to problem 2:
In one of my discussions called something along the lines of"complete survivor perk overhaul", I reworked the perk called Technician in order to give it purpose. I gave it purpose by having it tackle exactly this problem:Technician:
You are apt at handling machinery with the greatest care and precision.
Generators that you last worked on cannot be slowly regressed.
Generators that you repaired over a 95% will automatically be completed after a 10/15/20 second delay.
Details:
Technician only works if you were the last to touch a certain Gen. If multiple people work on it and you leave if before the others do, then the Gen can still regress.
The Killer can still kick that Gen but no sparks will be on that gen. It will not give the killer any points.
Pop Goes The Weasel will still regress the Gen, but no further regression will occur after.Now players will be able to play their late-game stealth builds if they wish to do so and could even with without the hatch by letting only the technician work on the Gen's or staying together.
SOLUTION to problem 3:
The Technician rework solves this issue of 2 survivors having to wait each others' death out. If they do not run the perk, they have accepted these terms.SOLUTION to problem 4:
-Every map spawns 4 chests, but 1 chest has a special appearance and Contains a "Rusty Key".
-The rusty key's effects only come into play when there is only 1 remaining survivor!!!;
-Whoever wields this key will be downed in 1 hit and can be moried after.
-The key is a special item: It doesn't take up your 1 and only item slot.
-The key cannot normally be dropped. It is automatically dropped upon: Being hooked/Upon Dying/Franklins Demise.
-The key can only be used to open the Hatch (when you are the last living survivor).
-The key is dropped upon leaving through the exit gates and is consumed upon entering the hatch.
-The rusty key can open the hatch even while in the downed state.Now here is how the hatch will work:
-Once you are the only survivor, a hatch opens, making it's usual sound.
-A killer can close the hatch, removing the sound and forcing the survivor to search harder + find the Rusty Key.
-A killer cannot grab a survivor entering the hatch.
-A killer standing on the hatch will not prevent the survivor from entering.So there is no longer a hatch stand-off; A survivor can just Run to the hatch and once they arrive there and/or manage to be downed close enough to it, they win.
But due to the Rusty Key mechanic, IF the killer manages to find the hatch first, they will have a great advantage over the fight. It will take the survivor significantly longer to find it, and in order to now be able to open it, they NEED a key that will give them the EXPOSED effect. This allows the killer to guard the hatch and manage to get the kill if they manage to hit the survivor a few meters away from the hatch.
A free mori for good measure and that settles the Hatch problem.THE END~
-
The hatch conditions are theoretically not free, but practically are.
You need a VERY suicidal team in order to have 3 of them die before you have 2 gens done. (80 seconds or at worst 160 seconds.)I am often able to do is all alone, and you have 3 other teammates!
What you call "Conditions" are basically non-conditions, as much as you can say the hatch isn't a free mechanic because you need a copy of this game installed before you can use the hatch.
These type of conditions are almost always met, or are nearly deliberately avoided.As an answer to the main post:
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM DEFINITION----------------------------------------------------------- Once your teammates die, winning becomes significantly harder, making you dependant on strangers, which isn't fun.
- Generator REGRESSION disables any opportunity for low-survivor-count generator progression and stealth gameplay.
- This lead to a hatch mechanic which caused a giant disparity in winrate between 2 survivors and 1 survivor:
(Conditions with multiple generators measured in Survivors Alive)
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Practically impossibleinto
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Easily winnable.meaning that if there were 2 survivors, they would wait out the death of another.
- It created the hatch standoff, where it would require 1 to be a "sweety" and let the other win or get the kill.
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM ANALYSIS------------------------------------------------------------
ANALYSIS to problem 1:
The main issue here is that there is a great impact on the total survivor's efficiency once a survivor dies. If you thought losing 25% of your working force wasn't enough... it is actually worse.There are multiple stages in the match cycle:
Stage 1: All 4 survivors are working on Gens. 100% efficiency.
Stage 2: 1 Survivor has been found and is now looping: 75% efficiency.
Stage 3: 1 Survivor has been caught and requires another survivor for the rescue and heal. 50% efficiency.
Stage 4: It is possible that a new survivor has been found and lasts long enough for the other surv to be healed, meaning they return to a 75% efficiency after the heal.
Stage 5: A survivor dies: 75% efficiency.
Stage 6: A survivor gets found and is now looping: 50% efficiency.
Stage 7: The survivor needs to be rescued and healed. while another survivor is being looped. 0-50% efficiency.The game has to be balanced around these stages and they affect the outcome greatly.
The death of 1 survivor early can mean a difference between a 75% efficiency and a 25% efficiency.
Once there are 3 survivors, certain teams already get into the loop of getting caught > rescue > healing > getting caught and no one is doing gens anymore.So you have a bad team? You are doomed without the hatch.
ANALYSIS to problem 2:
Generator regression is a great mechanic for killers to stall some extra time against the horse of 4 living survivors trying to scape as fast as possible and is certainly something a killer needs in their battle against short Gen times.
But once the 1st and perhaps second survivor dies, it is this mechanic that completely kills the ability for survivors to make their escape through doing multiple Gens in the late game.
Normally it would be possible to sneak around a bit. Progress generators in small pieces with the killer noticing small increases in progression, but that is no longer possible.
Generator REGRESSION forces you to Install yourself right next to a Gen until you are caught.
The sparks or lack of it directly indicate that you've touched it, notifying the killer that you are here in the area, whereas no regression mechanic wouldn't have revealed you if you only touched the Gen for a bit. The killer wouldn't have noticed a change in progress, allowing you to be sneaky.ANALYSIS to problem 3:
The disparity between 1 and 2 survivors surviving with multiple gens is HUGE... and it is HUGE in the favour of 1 survivor. Once 2 teammates die with multiple gens, there is no way you will finish the others: Both of you are aware... one of you needs to die.
This problem is part of Problem 2. where slowly working on generators without regression would have actually given a 2 man team a decent chance to make it out together.Because both survivors know they can't, they will either work on a Gen of which they know they won't be able to finish or they will hide and wait for the other player to die. This is no healthy gameplay.
ANALYSIS to problem 4: The hatch standoff is a problem due to the killer being able to block it in case they find it first. The killer can also grab the survivor, preventing them from being able to jump in if they are standing right on it.
On the other hand there is a problem of the hatch being considered a too easy way to escape.
So let's find a middle ground!----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM SOLUTION-----------------------------------------------------------
SOLUTION to problem 1:
The solution to problem 1, being dependant on other survivors, can be solved by addressing the solutions in problem 2,3 and 4!SOLUTION to problem 2:
In one of my discussions called something along the lines of"complete survivor perk overhaul", I reworked the perk called Technician in order to give it purpose. I gave it purpose by having it tackle exactly this problem:Technician:
You are apt at handling machinery with the greatest care and precision.
Generators that you last worked on cannot be slowly regressed.
Generators that you repaired over a 95% will automatically be completed after a 10/15/20 second delay.
Details:
Technician only works if you were the last to touch a certain Gen. If multiple people work on it and you leave if before the others do, then the Gen can still regress.
The Killer can still kick that Gen but no sparks will be on that gen. It will not give the killer any points.
Pop Goes The Weasel will still regress the Gen, but no further regression will occur after.Now players will be able to play their late-game stealth builds if they wish to do so and could even with without the hatch by letting only the technician work on the Gen's or staying together.
SOLUTION to problem 3:
The Technician rework solves this issue of 2 survivors having to wait each others' death out. If they do not run the perk, they have accepted these terms.SOLUTION to problem 4:
-Every map spawns 4 chests, but 1 chest has a special appearance and Contains a "Rusty Key".
-The rusty key's effects only come into play when there is only 1 remaining survivor!!!;
-Whoever wields this key will be downed in 1 hit and can be moried after.
-The key is a special item: It doesn't take up your 1 and only item slot.
-The key cannot normally be dropped. It is automatically dropped upon: Being hooked/Upon Dying/Franklins Demise.
-The key can only be used to open the Hatch (when you are the last living survivor).
-The key is dropped upon leaving through the exit gates and is consumed upon entering the hatch.
-The rusty key can open the hatch even while in the downed state.Now here is how the hatch will work:
-Once you are the only survivor, a hatch opens, making it's usual sound.
-A killer can close the hatch, removing the sound and forcing the survivor to search harder + find the Rusty Key.
-A killer cannot grab a survivor entering the hatch.
-A killer standing on the hatch will not prevent the survivor from entering.So there is no longer a hatch stand-off; A survivor can just Run to the hatch and once they arrive there and/or manage to be downed close enough to it, they win.
But due to the Rusty Key mechanic, IF the killer manages to find the hatch first, they will have a great advantage over the fight. It will take the survivor significantly longer to find it, and in order to now be able to open it, they NEED a key that will give them the EXPOSED effect. This allows the killer to guard the hatch and manage to get the kill if they manage to hit the survivor a few meters away from the hatch.
A free mori for good measure and that settles the Hatch problem.THE END~
(And for people interested in some game-play details as a result from these machanics:
In funny cases, a survivor will have takes the Rusty Key away from the chest, forcing you to look around hooks or memorizing where someone bled out/got moried.
These type of scenario's can be frustrating in a very thematically fitting way; "I can't find the key".If the killer found the hatch first and you find the Rusty Key, then it is your mission to sneak up to the hatch (and possibly killer), as even though you can enter it without being stopped, you can be downed before reaching it.
Deliberately remaining in the dying state to dead hard your way into the hatch is a strategy you can use in open-field hatches where it is harder to sneak in. A quick juke or 360 may be the difference between life and death. -
The hatch conditions are theoretically not free, but practically are.
You need a VERY suicidal team in order to have 3 of them die before you have 2 gens done. (80 seconds or at worst 160 seconds.)I am often able to do is all alone, and you have 3 other teammates!
What you call "Conditions" are basically non-conditions, as much as you can say the hatch isn't a free mechanic because you need a copy of this game installed before you can use the hatch.
These type of conditions are almost always met, or are nearly deliberately avoided.As an answer to the main post:
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM DEFINITION----------------------------------------------------------- Once your teammates die, winning becomes significantly harder, making you dependant on strangers, which isn't fun.
- Generator REGRESSION disables any opportunity for low-survivor-count generator progression and stealth gameplay.
- This lead to a hatch mechanic which caused a giant disparity in winrate between 2 survivors and 1 survivor:
(Conditions with multiple generators measured in Survivors Alive)
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Practically impossibleinto
4 Surv = Winnable
3 Surv = Winnable but harder
2 Surv = Barely winnable
1 Surv = Easily winnable.meaning that if there were 2 survivors, they would wait out the death of another.
- It created the hatch standoff, where it would require 1 to be a "sweety" and let the other win or get the kill.
----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM ANALYSIS------------------------------------------------------------
ANALYSIS to problem 1:
The main issue here is that there is a great impact on the total survivor's efficiency once a survivor dies. If you thought losing 25% of your working force wasn't enough... it is actually worse.There are multiple stages in the match cycle:
Stage 1: All 4 survivors are working on Gens. 100% efficiency.
Stage 2: 1 Survivor has been found and is now looping: 75% efficiency.
Stage 3: 1 Survivor has been caught and requires another survivor for the rescue and heal. 50% efficiency.
Stage 4: It is possible that a new survivor has been found and lasts long enough for the other surv to be healed, meaning they return to a 75% efficiency after the heal.
Stage 5: A survivor dies: 75% efficiency.
Stage 6: A survivor gets found and is now looping: 50% efficiency.
Stage 7: The survivor needs to be rescued and healed. while another survivor is being looped. 0-50% efficiency.The game has to be balanced around these stages and they affect the outcome greatly.
The death of 1 survivor early can mean a difference between a 75% efficiency and a 25% efficiency.
Once there are 3 survivors, certain teams already get into the loop of getting caught > rescue > healing > getting caught and no one is doing gens anymore.So you have a bad team? You are doomed without the hatch.
ANALYSIS to problem 2:
Generator regression is a great mechanic for killers to stall some extra time against the horse of 4 living survivors trying to scape as fast as possible and is certainly something a killer needs in their battle against short Gen times.
But once the 1st and perhaps second survivor dies, it is this mechanic that completely kills the ability for survivors to make their escape through doing multiple Gens in the late game.
Normally it would be possible to sneak around a bit. Progress generators in small pieces with the killer noticing small increases in progression, but that is no longer possible.
Generator REGRESSION forces you to Install yourself right next to a Gen until you are caught.
The sparks or lack of it directly indicate that you've touched it, notifying the killer that you are here in the area, whereas no regression mechanic wouldn't have revealed you if you only touched the Gen for a bit. The killer wouldn't have noticed a change in progress, allowing you to be sneaky.ANALYSIS to problem 3:
The disparity between 1 and 2 survivors surviving with multiple gens is HUGE... and it is HUGE in the favour of 1 survivor. Once 2 teammates die with multiple gens, there is no way you will finish the others: Both of you are aware... one of you needs to die.
This problem is part of Problem 2. where slowly working on generators without regression would have actually given a 2 man team a decent chance to make it out together.Because both survivors know they can't, they will either work on a Gen of which they know they won't be able to finish or they will hide and wait for the other player to die. This is no healthy gameplay.
ANALYSIS to problem 4: The hatch standoff is a problem due to the killer being able to block it in case they find it first. The killer can also grab the survivor, preventing them from being able to jump in if they are standing right on it.
On the other hand there is a problem of the hatch being considered a too easy way to escape.
So let's find a middle ground!----------------------------------------------------------PROBLEM SOLUTION-----------------------------------------------------------
SOLUTION to problem 1:
The solution to problem 1, being dependant on other survivors, can be solved by addressing the solutions in problem 2,3 and 4!SOLUTION to problem 2:
In one of my discussions called something along the lines of"complete survivor perk overhaul", I reworked the perk called Technician in order to give it purpose. I gave it purpose by having it tackle exactly this problem:Technician:
You are apt at handling machinery with the greatest care and precision.
Generators that you last worked on cannot be slowly regressed.
Generators that you repaired over a 95% will automatically be completed after a 10/15/20 second delay.
Details:
Technician only works if you were the last to touch a certain Gen. If multiple people work on it and you leave if before the others do, then the Gen can still regress.
The Killer can still kick that Gen but no sparks will be on that gen. It will not give the killer any points.
Pop Goes The Weasel will still regress the Gen, but no further regression will occur after.Now players will be able to play their late-game stealth builds if they wish to do so and could even with without the hatch by letting only the technician work on the Gen's or staying together.
SOLUTION to problem 3:
The Technician rework solves this issue of 2 survivors having to wait each others' death out. If they do not run the perk, they have accepted these terms.SOLUTION to problem 4:
-Every map spawns 4 chests, but 1 chest has a special appearance and Contains a "Rusty Key".
-The rusty key's effects only come into play when there is only 1 remaining survivor!!!;
-Whoever wields this key will be downed in 1 hit and can be moried after.
-The key is a special item: It doesn't take up your 1 and only item slot.
-The key cannot normally be dropped. It is automatically dropped upon: Being hooked/Upon Dying/Franklins Demise.
-The key can only be used to open the Hatch (when you are the last living survivor).
-The key is dropped upon leaving through the exit gates and is consumed upon entering the hatch.
-The rusty key can open the hatch even while in the downed state.Now here is how the hatch will work:
-Once you are the only survivor, a hatch opens, making it's usual sound.
-A killer can close the hatch, removing the sound and forcing the survivor to search harder + find the Rusty Key.
-A killer cannot grab a survivor entering the hatch.
-A killer standing on the hatch will not prevent the survivor from entering.So there is no longer a hatch stand-off; A survivor can just Run to the hatch and once they arrive there and/or manage to be downed close enough to it, they win.
But due to the Rusty Key mechanic, IF the killer manages to find the hatch first, they will have a great advantage over the fight. It will take the survivor significantly longer to find it, and in order to now be able to open it, they NEED a key that will give them the EXPOSED effect. This allows the killer to guard the hatch and manage to get the kill if they manage to hit the survivor a few meters away from the hatch.
A free mori for good measure and that settles the Hatch problem.THE END~
(And for people interested in some game-play details as a result from these machanics:
In funny cases, a survivor will have takes the Rusty Key away from the chest, forcing you to look around hooks or memorizing where someone bled out/got moried.
These type of scenario's can be frustrating in a very thematically fitting way; "I can't find the key".If the killer found the hatch first and you find the Rusty Key, then it is your mission to sneak up to the hatch (and possibly killer), as even though you can enter it without being stopped, you can be downed before reaching it.
Deliberately remaining in the dying state to dead hard your way into the hatch is a strategy you can use in open field hatches, which will be the harder ones to reach.) -
Something like bodyblocking in the basement should not be reportable. Instead the Devs are responsible and have to fix this issue.
Create a float value called "Push".
When colliding with the killer, the value increases. When not colliding with the killer, the value slowly decreases to 0.
When the value is let's say X( 30 Seconds), disable killer collision for that survivor for 5 seconds.
Done. Problem solved.Now use X to determine how long a killer should be able to bodyblock or "keep the survivor hostage" and you're done.
No reason to ban people for something the devs can fix with like 10 lines of code. -
Clown would win the comedian contest,
Wraith would win Hide and Seek.
Spirit would win the sexiness contest,
Nurse would win a spot as employee in the hospital.
Michael Meyers would slice your cucumbers the fastest.
Huntress would kill the most pigs and Pig is a huntress.
Hillbilly and LeatherFace survived the longest in minecraft.
Freddy would win your heart and be the man of your dreams.
Hag and Trapper would turn the most anime-loving boys into gays with their traps.
And Doctor would earn the most Doctorates.Everyone is special in their own way :^)
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Give us BBQ and Chili NOW!!!