AlwaysInAGoodShape
AlwaysInAGoodShape
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But if you put SWF in a separate game the wait times will go up a lot for everyone when they are already fair long now. Add this to killers and survivors DC ing and even the lobby dodge the game will start getting fairly unbreakable for all
Which may be why it isn't solved this way. It's a difficult issue xD
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I understand what you are saying but you cannot provide an exact balance for something with so many different variable. The solo survivor may be a bad player, there could be a troll or the killer might not be playing properly.
I do not think there has ever been a game where everyone plays how you are supposed to and I do not think people will start now.
It's not about playing the game the way you're supposed to. It's about having a standard for balance. Basically every game has that standard for balance.
Call of Duty doesn't queue up Hard-core players without HUD together with player with HUD. It separates different standards of balance. DBD doesn't. Whether those CoD players in either game-mode play well/play bad or troll, it doesn't matter.
In game modes where people have double damage people simply don't play together with players who don't have double damage.
The "Double Damage" in DBD would be Immunity to Blindless, Free Aurareading and pre-emptive planning + real time strategising. -
SWF vs Solo simply obliterates an objective measure for balance:
Now it doesn't matter inherently whether the killer is strong or weak: Your objective is to make the killer exactly as strong as survivors are:
The Green Line is SWF.
The Red Line is Killer.
The Blue Line is Solo.Now I want you to move the Red Line either up or down until it overlaps exactly the Green Line and Blue Line line at the same time.
If you fail to do so then there's your problem. -
Moonrise hair ace + his black suit = mafia ace. Don't have a picture
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Coming to think of it; It's also possible to use (instant) generator regression to make the Parts stronger in comparison with doing flat generators thus without the need for increasing gen-times, though I'd argue that doing a generator should always be the slightly stronger method, for the fact that doing parts has a lot more benefits to it.
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@XavierBoah17 said:
Im not sure if I glossed over it or not but did you mention anything about the number of parts you can have on you?Edit: nvm I reread it. I feel like this could fix the whole 3v1 disadvantage by allowing survivors to gather parts to make up for the loss of a player and can really tip a momentum change for survivors.
Yep, that is what it's designed to do (: Solving Death-Efficiency and making the game (unlike vanilla minimally) playable during any phase of the game, no matter how many survivors are alive.
I also think that parts would decrease great skill check sizes slightly for every part installed or increase skill check oddswand difficulty when awake (so to not effect Freddy for the Freddy mains out there.)
I'm not sure if I understood this part? (Installing parts did not intend to have skill-checks/crafting them didn't intend to have them either, although I see no particular reason not to add them.)
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@Free_Hugs said:
Interesting, though ,modifying generators seems a bit roundabount. In the end you're still going to have to press M1.What would you think about having to install X new parts in one of the exit doors (or even the hatch!) in order for them to be open-able once all gens are completed, so there is an incentive to work on parts/doors inversely to the number of completed gens while the killer needs to patrol more space?
I think that they shouldn't be mandatory for a gate's open-ability, but the idea of using them on exit gates too seems very healthy.
Gates take too long to power for a 2 person or 1 person team. 2 people might just be on the edge.
I think gates would be: 1 part: 15 seconds. 2 parts: 5 seconds with a part taking 5 seconds to install.
Since a survivor can always bring 1 part to the exit gates, therefore the total time it takes to complete a gate is still 20 seconds since installing costs 5 seconds too.
This would also mean that Remember Me should be buffed, since a 5 second gate is a multiplier of 4. If Remember Me is buffed appropriately, it might actually be a pretty good perk, since you'll actually REALLY want to open the gate with parts, which may come unexpected.
Glad that you brought that up!
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@The_Crusader said:
Hold M1 to recoverHold M2 to bleed out at 2x speed
Solved.
The killer still gets some time to look for the other survivor, and if the one on the ground is bleeding out then they still have the chance to hook. Might stop people from getting bored and disconnecting too.
Someone with an unused Unbreakable/No Mither should not be able to use that ability.
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Yes, the total objective time needs to be increased, that's why any additional objective must be mandatory.
Optional objectives only provide an increase in objective time once in a blue moon, since they are, by definition, optional, and few people will do them. Again, this is not debatable.
You may have not read the full OP I see.
There is a clear distinction between a mandatory and a purely optional objective.
We consider doing generators mandatory and we considering sabotaging optional.But calling the Parts optional would be deceiving: Because the Part system also makes flat out doing gens optional. Both flat out doing gens and doing parts fall in this now half-mandatory category.
and few people will do them. Again, this is not debatable.
Will nobody be doing Partless-generators since this is now optional? That's highly debatable.
When there are 2 routes (intertwined with one another), which route will purely depend on which one is stronger and which one comes with said possible draw-backs or benefits.The devil is in the details here: Ratio's per part against gen-time decide everything.
Adding in forced optional objectives will just piss people off.
Optional objectives that (which you believe) are forced upon you are called mandatory objectives. What you call forced here is called META.
But since a META strategy can change, so can it change here too;
When a toolbox offers a lot of repair speed; say 25% (purple without add-ons) even that can return a 100 second generator to an 80 second generator. If doing an 80 second generator is more beneficial than than collecting 5 parts and doing a 10 second generator with 25% increased speed then the META is doing a generator for 80 seconds with a toolbox.That is where mandatory and "forced" differs.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
JanTheMan said:Survivors should have to, at least install one part to start working on a gen.
That wouldn't work imo, unless the cafting area for the parts were totally random like no specific spawn locations. Because if they had any system killers can learn where they spawn and patrol those areas specifically in the first few minutes and get a 4k a lot easier or hold the game hostage by doing the objective of guarding.
Interesting. Though I may have not specifically mentioned it; only the basement has a guaranteed crafting area. the other 2 are spawned outside of proximity of each other, unlike how a chest could spawn near a basement chest.
But you are right. Being (as good as)mandated to go for the parts indeed increases chances to be found. as it limits the possible (main objective) locations to 3, instead of an otherwise increased amount to 8+3, for the better or the worse.
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@Eveline said:
Sometimes I'm tempted to dc because I just want to play next game without the killer prolonging the game for no reason.Pressing "Recover" when the bar is already full causing what @The_Crusader suggested could be all that's needed.
Edit:
Holding the recovery button without releasing it (x in seconds) will increase your bleed-out rate/multiplier to y.
Releasing recovery sets your multiplier back to 1. (Checks every 0.5 seconds)You'll be dead in about 25 seconds.
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Camping is a fun issue, not a balance issue, so I totally agree.
Solving camping and the ability of the killer to be able to camp you would look something like this:
Link: Would This fix dbd's tunnelling and camping problem? -
@Orion said:
The effects with the parts would be the same, but not the effects without the parts, and therein lies the problem. Base generator repair time should not be increased in any way, period, end of story.It shouldn't be, if it were the only option, since that option would be boring. Maybe 100 seconds is boring, maybe 80 seconds is boring too.
What we are sure of is that the TOTAL Objective time should be increased. Previously, this time equalled Generator time (ignoring exit gates).
Either the timer had to be increased or the amount of generators needed would have to be increased.
The problem here is whether it's mandated to do something boring:In our version it isn't. In the example I give, every part eliminated circa 15 seconds of generator time. What if this was 40 seconds for the 1st part? and generators took 120 seconds?
The players do have the freedom, but they also have the freedom to use toolboxes and reduce that 120 back to 80, resulting in a similar gen-time which we'd call "on the gen-boringness bliss point".
Offering freedom is a very useful tool: If they don't want to repair long generators then they will collect parts (to the degree collecting them is more beneficial as determined by the ratio's).
Offering them to spend a lot of time on a generator simultaneously allows them to use toolboxes on certain generators and still have Gen-Rushing not be that big of an issue.What people will quickly learn = early game means collecting parts. After about 1/2(really depending on our ratio's) they'll start working on it, but can still skip this phase if they have the toolboxes strong enough to tank through 80+ gens.
(The Part system of course is also lessening the use of toolboxes, big gen times may be part of keeping them relevant, yet healthy)
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Base generator repair time is already at the maximum tolerable limit (and maybe a touch beyond that). Effectively forcing people to get these parts by making the alternative much, much worse, is worse than just forcing them to get these parts.
Worse? the effects would be the exact same. There's simply just more freedom in the 2nd approach as both translate into each other.
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@JanTheMan said:
Survivors should have to, at least install one part to start working on a gen.The problem with that is it removes choice and thus some of the excitement.
I wouldn't ever make a part MANDATED. There is a better (less obvious) solution that requires no structural change:
Bump up the generator time + change ratio's between multipliers.
Let's say we make gen-time 100 seconds. But simultaneously we also make the first 1(/2) parts significantly more beneficial, thus never forcing anything upon people, yet making the Part system part of the meta.
The devil is in the Details (:
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@fluffybunny said:
I like this idea! Also, did you make the picture? It looks really nice.Edited in Gimp (:
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@Sinner said:
Can the killer destroy the generator?Not the parts. The killer can still kick the generator when it has progression. The multiplier that the Parts give also multiply progression.
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@se05239 said:
Why go through the extra hassle of installing a part when a generator still only takes 80 seconds to repair without any parts?Because you'll still be able to progress through the late-game (as in when people are dead).
If you think the Hatch will be as available as before, then guess again
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@Orion said:
@Vietfox said:
Assuming i understood that well i would remove the notification system when installing a "part", that sounds like a free notification perk to me.I think he meant that the generator model would be altered in some way to show that the generator had an additional part, but the killer would still have to be physically there, observing the generator, to see it.
That's it (:
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@Vietfox said:
Assuming i understood that well i would remove the notification system when installing a "part", that sounds like a free notification perk to me.The notification is not a sound notification. It's just a simple visual representation on how many parts are installed, similar to how generator progression is visualised.
Basically you can "see" the parts attached to the generator.
Maybe that part was so obvious that it will confuse more people then that it will ensure xD -
Parts
Survivors can now find a new special item, called "a part". Even though it's brand new, that name was already taken. Parts take 5 seconds to install on a generator. Once installed, it will be attached to it forever. Every generator can have 5 parts installed to it maximally.
Parts can be dropped, but when they are, they are destroyed.Parts can be "crafted" at 3 special locations one of which 1 is always in the basement. (Imagine it as a crafting table/crafting set). It takes 10 seconds to craft a Part.
A player can only carry 1 Part and only 1 player can be crafting at 1 crafting table at them same time.
Both installing the part on a generator and creating a part does not save progression when cancelled.When a part is installed on a generator, there is something visually changed about that generator (added), that notifies the killer on how many parts have been installed.
Once a part is installed it SETS the charges multiplier to:
At 0/5 Parts: 1x Multiplier to charges and regression on that generator. (+0% = 80 seconds)
At 1/5 Parts: 1.2x Multiplier to charges and regression on that generator. (+20% = 66.67 seconds)
At 2/5 Parts: 1.5x Multiplier to charges and regression on that generator. (+50% = 53.33 seconds)
At 3/5 Parts: 2x Multiplier to charges and regression on that generator. (+100% = 40 seconds)
At 4/5 Parts: 3.2x Multiplier to charges and regression on that generator. (+220% = 25 seconds)
At 5/5 Parts: 8x Multiplier to charges and regression on that generator. (+700% = 10 seconds)Upon installing a part, it is consumed.
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@XavierBoah17 said:
Im not sure if I glossed over it or not but did you mention anything about the number of parts you can have on you?Nope didn't mention it. They have the same structure as an item: You can only hold 1 at a time. The only difference is that they are destroyed upon being dropped.(whether that's you pressing drop or whether Franklins Demise forces it out of your hands).
Applying a part is also done by holding the item button. -
Then they would just lose pressure at a later stage.
It still allows all survivors on generators to stay on generators.
Yes, but for 1 if-statement added to the perk, you'd only have to avoid getting DS'ed 1 single time. If you managed to get anyone dead without getting DS'ed, further DS's will be significantly less impactful when there's only 3 people alive.
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What if DS simply is deactivated up until you've reached the struggle phase?
To me, that's the simplest solution yet achieving a decent result, allowing killers to get their early game pressure when deserved.
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What about instead of the hatch appearing when only two survivors are left
What?
The hatch spawns when:
4 alive: when 5 generators are finished
3 alive: when 4 generators are finished
2 alive: when 3 generators are finished
1 alive: when 2 generators are finished -
Let me start off saying that Hex: Perks currently also have something very unequal about them:
There are many Hex: Perks. Certain Hex: Perks like Hex: Ruin start taking effect at the start of the game.
Other Hex: Perks may only start to take effect somewhere during half of the game: like Hex: Devour Hope. Then you have end game Hex: Perks like NOED.
What is weird about this is that even though all these Hex: Perks have a different moment of the match where they start taking effect (typically/absolutely) only 1 of those perks doesn't get lit from the start; NOED.I think part of solving the Hex: Perks is part of solving that weird bridge that mid-game Hex: Perks currently suffer from, but what managed to cure end-game Hex Perks, and that is the idea that all of them shouldn't be lit from the start. Every single Hex: Perks should only search for an empty dull totem the moment they start AFFECTING the game. For Hex: Ruin this would be on the first generator skill-check. For token Hex Perks this wouldn't be upon their token, but on their effects as well. The only thing that would need a slight adjustment is Hex Devour Hope as the lower tiers would skip the ms bonus and thus only start to take effect the moment you instantly down someone.
So every Hex: Perk would work like NOED, which proves to work, even as an end-game perk.
So now we bridged that strange gap between early game, mid game and end-game perks, this is where your post becomes crucial:How do we ensure that differences in strength between Hex: Perks can be handled and how do we prevent unluckiness with totem spawns:
Point 1 Shouldn't be needed if we had a solution.
Point 2 This could be more work than needed, but nothing is inherently wrong with this idea.
Point 3 For the animations that we have atm, I think keeping their size is better.
Point 4 (I'll come back for this one)
Point 5 (I'll come back for this one as well)
Point 6 Something similar like this is/was being created; the LOS method, but I think it only helped a tiny bit and was ignorable.
Point 7 Difficult skill-checks worsen the skill-cap as we've learned from Hex: Ruin
Point 8 & 9 reworking or creating new perks shouldn't be needed once we've solved Hex: totem spawns, so I don't like the idea of considering it a solution, for the same reason that I don't like Lightborn/Hangmans Trick. It would be a waste if those 2 perks would prevent us from tackling the issue. As unrelated change: Nothing wrong with it.
Point 10 Might feel too strange/unnatural.So to come back for point 4 and 5:
I really like the idea behind 4, because what this suggestion tries to achieve is that it wants to make Hex: Totems work DESPITE terrible totem spawns and that's the ingenious part about it.
If you'd get something like point 4 to work, then that would eliminate the need for point 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.Now the question is: How do you get such a mechanic to work?; If you take into consideration what I suggested above: that all Hex perks work like NOED and bind themselves to a dull totem at a certain point other than being the start of the match.
That is the trick. You want to come up with a solution that conforms to the thought behind point 4, but also manages to become weaker overtime with a varying rate, as to make it easier to dismantle stronger hex totems once they have been alive for what we consider to be reasonable, thus creating more consistency, thus:
1: All perks work like NOED and bind themselves at a later point. (elimination of x-game gaps)
2: A system that makes them hidden event if the totem-spots themselves are bad.
3: A system that allows activated Hex: Totems to become easier to find depending on how long they have been active for.That is the main structure for a healthy Hex: perk system in my view.
thus as for my point 2, thus your point 4: we've your transparency idea, I've seen people suggest something like the light burning during certain conditions, etc.as for my point 3: you might play around with your point 5, which is an important variable. You might have it vary depending on how long it has been burning. You could also try something with making the burning sound grow wider the longer it stands, etc.
That's what I think about the Hex: Perk issue. I'll leave the specifics for point 2 and 3 up to you, but that's the main structure that I'd you to keep in mind.
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@Ramxenoc445 said:
Master said:@Ramxenoc445 said:
Really just a vent post but I haven't played for a while due to lack of enjoyment with people's craptastic internet connections at times but I come back only to be tunneled by a pig player with a not good connection. I don't really care about the tunnel part I expect it because the pig is garbo and most of them just do it. But I went to vault a window and the game jerked me back an inch three times and she just happily continued to mosey her way to me and downed me thanks to it.
Tunneling is just playing optimally, do you want the killer to play garbo intentionally?
Hope that is sarcasm because i can get 4ks without tunneling
He's still right. Tunnelling is superior when you get the equal choice, for the sole reason that a 1/2 hooked survivor is very different than a 3 hooked survivor.
The only problem is that it's un fun for the survivor.
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@MegaWaffle said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Free_Hugs said:
This is a lot of effort for a troll postI don't think you've read it if you think it's a troll post.
It has graphs that's why I didn't read it.
Its all about the Pie charts in 2019.What if you can watch it? (x
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58:28-1:00:45
Official statement by the Devs about Leader and all other vaulting affecting perks.
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@PiiFree said:
How is he going to carry & hook people?He can put people in chests.
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As well as every other idea that’s been sent in the actual thread... Im sure the next event will have the now named Bluewaffle in it for sure!
You made my type waffle 2 times by accident after you said it the first time, but I corrected it before posting xD
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Vanilla Game: People will save you during the game as usual.
Vanilla End Game: People will only save you if they are playing for pips, not for BP. (Dying is somewhat problematic on hook.)Our Event: People will save you during the game as usual. Your likely hood of getting tunnelled after being hooked is decreased.
Our Late-Game Event: The killer may not camp the survivor at all as the Wunderwaffe is gone if that survivor was holding the waffe.
If the survivor didn't have the waffe, then still 2 people are available for a rescue and the third can be a very useful bait. If they don't rescue then it's less of a problem than in the vanilla game, as both the hooked survivor and the escaped survivor win together. It didn't matter whether you were the one escaping or the one dying on the hook, since it's a pure team-effort; You may be the mortyr as long as it advanced your team-effort.Moonrise Event: You don't want to unhook as that might result in the killer going after you and destroying the last vessel you could pick up. Tunnelling incentives are the same.
Moonrise Event: When the 1st survivor dies and there are about 3 gens left to do, it is already beneficial to wait the death of others out and getting the hatch. The chance of getting caught while doing a Gen is not worth it.
Moonrise Event Late Game: Nobody is available for a save. Not when the exit gates are open and not when there's only 1 more Gen left to do. -
@not_Queen said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape Your posts are always so complete and creative. It's nice to see how you explain your reasoning and ideas. Constructive feedback like yours is greatly appreciated. I sent the entire post to the Event team to see if it can spark a discussion. Thanks for being so active hereSounds exciting~
Glad to be of help (: -
I haven’t noticed it some people’s experience is not a universal experience, maybe I’ve been lucky with who I’ve been matched with, this forum is not and never has been the majority of players, and the opinions of people here are not necessarily ones I agree with and their experience is theirs but it doesn’t mean I’ve felt the same, I say the same about Libby dodging, I don’t experience that much either, but I play 90% solo, I hardly ever get campers I don’t feel like I’m waiting ages for a lobby either.
Just because you (not surprisingly) chose to think your experience must also be mine and if it’s not mine it must be a lie, just shows what type of person you are.
It has nothing to do with your experience.
It's a fact that in this event, taking scoring event points and optimising them as your win-condition, it is the META strategy to no longer save your teammates once the exit gates are open/when the last gen can be finished before them dying/when multiple people are dead and it's possible to get the hatch.People who didn't experience this simply didn't play to optimise the maximum amount of event points they could and thus simply didn't play towards the event win-condition.
It has nothing to do with experience: it has everything to do with whether you play the event or the degree to which you ignore it.
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@DocOctober said:
Yes, because unlike you, Paddy and I know that people won't be playing by your rules as you've left some glaring loopholes.One thing DbD has shown time and time again: if there is anything that can be abused, it will be abused.
Which is why in the event we made sure that there would be less tunnelling the unhooked survivor: Since now the saviour would be the higher priority if the hooked kept the item!
See, because tunnelling is "abused" we made sure that abusing that is less impactful as the item will compensate for early survivor death to a certain degree.
So I agree with you; One thing DbD has shown time and time again: if there is anything that can be abused, it will be abused, which is why we make sure it's harder to/less rewarding to than it is in the vanilla game.
See: we believe the same, which is why we adhere to the same ideology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVI3bmN8TIWe made tunnelling less rewarding. We made killers stronger in their base-state, with tools so that they can be that to the degree that we want to.
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Oh lord it’s the same, you’re clearly biased to the point of blindness.
Personaly I have not noticed the lack of unwillingness to save in this current event. I’m using your words and your comments and applying the same premis to your idea.Personaly I have not noticed the lack of unwillingness to save in this current event.
Personaly I have not noticed the lack of unwillingness to save in this current event.
Personaly I have not noticed the lack of unwillingness to save in this current event.
Personaly I have not noticed the lack of unwillingness to save in this current event.Do you also see why I find it dishonest, how in the event KNOWN for people abandoning their teammates, you claim to not have noticed such a problem, yet in my version , where there isn't stealing and losing everything upon death, you pretend it to be the biggest problem?
(with again my premise points being the reason why it happens, to which you agreed because you randomly filled out the premise but for the moonrise event and said: "see the similarities?"... because you saw them... Correctly, since I made sure I was right about them.)
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@Paddy4583 said:
Oh come on now you must realise that your OP has 7 points listed and from those 7 I picked 1 to comment on which isn’t one of your baited 3.You only brought those 3 up in an attempted effort to bait me into defending an argument I never made, it didn’t work on page 1 and it’s not gonna work on page 3
So it no longer baffles you?;
It baffles me that you include this:
Rarely contested: The dynamics of the event shouldn't incentivise players to not rescue. Because players lost their vessel when hooked, there was little incentive to rescue them if you could already steam their vessel» If for example only vessels were lost when being unhooked, then such incentive wouldn't have been lost. We want a system that thus promotes rescuing etc.
You refrain from your claim, since you now see that indeed the premise was correctly applied?
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@Paddy4583 said:
Haha 😂
yoir still doing it, I’ve called you out on this quote 3 separate times and your still doing it.its clear we are talking about the current event in the first 2 remarks.
And the third was was about actually geting to experience the only the only thing in the event for survivors, that stops it being the same game outside the event. Nothing to do with stealing points, but getting the item!
Stop already your not good at this at all.
We are? You said that I didn't apply to the premise of solving that aspect that went wrong in the Moonrise event to this Event.
Then I said you should apply the premise and see how it doesn't match this one. Why in the hell would you cover the moonrise event then? That's literally the problem that inspired the premise 😂 Of course that is going to match! Because I made sure it did.
So here's your chance again dude: (Don't apply it to the moonrise event, ######### haha )
-Your own life is all that matters. You losing your life completely cancels out your reward.
-The event points are scarce; you compete among teammates over event points.
-Under the condition of resources being scarce: If such points can be stolen from someone without having to unhook them, then there's less reason to do so.Apply it to my OP since that is literally where you claimed I didn't apply it!
Dude, I just realised... that I saw a problem with the moonrise event based on the 3 things listed above... and that I made sure to solve those in mine...
then I have you respond that I didn't solve them...
then when I ask you to apply those 3 rules to my event so you'd see how they weren't a problem in mine... you were literally stating how they were a problem in the moonrise event instead 😂 Of Course they were! -
You’ve quoted me and my words and then added your own spin and then argued against your own spin!
I'm not that sure about that. After all, you were the person that quoted my premise. You did the spinning part. Not me.
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-Your own life is all that matters. You losing your life completely cancels out your reward.
Only if you have a vessel you still get all your points for your participation up to death.
-The event points are scarce; you compete among teammates over event points.
Again only for vessel, which you can claim if the survivor with one messes up and gets hooked.
-Under the condition of resources being scarce: If such points can be stolen from someone without having to unhook them, then there's less reason to do so.
you have only 1 resource of use that stops this being a typical game day for a survivor, of the hooked person drops it you don’t need to unhook to steal it. If they don’t drop it wait for them to die and steal it.
how do you not see the clear comparison in this?
1: I listed philosophies and reflection points in the first and 2nd headline.
2: I stated that due to your ability to steal event points in combination with not having to rescue them for it caused people to be left on the hook.
3: You stated that me mentioning that point was ridiculous as your 2nd comment, since "I didn't apply that principle."
4: I've been continuously pointing out that it is impossible to not have applied to that premise, since STEALING is no longer POSSIBLE.
5: I pointed this out in the premise to which you responded "Don't you see the similarities?". There are no similarities between the premise (marked in bold above) and this event.
You cannot steal points, you don't lose it all upon death, and EVERY survivor gets the points. They cannot FIGHT OVER IT, similarly to how a football team cannot FIGHT OVER THE WIN, since they win at the same time.
Instead of admitting that i applied that premise and survivors can no longer steal event points from their teammates without having to rescue them... (since well, they cannot steal AT ALL) you keep up the most obvious wrong position.
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@DocOctober said:
Props to you for standing up to it though, you're much more patient with him than most others.-Your own life is all that matters. You losing your life completely cancels out your reward.
-The event points are scarce; you compete among teammates over event points.
-Under the condition of resources being scarce: If such points can be stolen from someone without having to unhook them, then there's less reason to do so.@Paddy4583 Claims that that the above statements apply to my event;
That survivors compete over the waffe's event points among each other.
That upon death, you lose your reward.
That you can steal event points from teammates.Now do you believe these to be true for this event then?
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Okay, you misunderstood me, not problem.
Try writing the patch notes for the event. I am going to play survivor and killer. The patch notes need to include everything. No information left.
You only need to write it short and precise but it has to include everything. As I said, pretend you are writing the patch notes for the event that everyone is going to read.
Patch Notes:
1: 1 New hook type is introduced: The Choice-Hook. 3 Choice hooks spawn per map, each choice hook having 2 hooks that are not destructible through normal means.
2: 6 Unique killer buffs are applied across the 6 hooks attached to the 3 choice hooks.
3: Once you hang a survivor on a choice hook, the other hook attached to it will detach permanently.4: A new special survivor item is introduced: the Wunderwaffe, which can only be found on one of the 5 racks located on normally empty totem spots.
5: The wunderwaffe will grant a generator repair & exit gate open buff per 0/1/2/3 dead survivors: 30/100/200/300%.
6: The wunderwaffe allows you to sabotage choice hooks, makes generators you last touched non-regressable, but apply lightning sparks coming off from the generator and reveal the aura of the person holding it to every other survivor. Holding the waffen will cause the Hatch to close when within proximity.
7: The wonderwaffe will be damaged whenever a survivor with the item equipped is hooked. After 4 times, it will be destroyed.
8: Survivors cannot drop the Waffe, but are able to return it to the rack by bringing it to a rack or by "dropping" it while hooked. When you are unhooked while still having it, the unhooker will gain the item instead.
9: Special chests will spawn that grant Blueprints, which are lost upon death. Escpaing with blueprints translates into 1 event point per blueprint.10: The special hook buffs are:
(yellow): Triggers bloodwarden for the duration of the hook and 30 seconds after.
(green): All normal items break instantly, unless they are in a closed/open chest.
(Blue): Applied Broken permanently. Suffer from a 25% slower action speed for 60 sec. after being unhooked.
(Black): Every survivor will get +5/6 silent and fast skill-checks randomly in between normal ones. (stacks)
(Red): Your heartbeat becomes global up until you've downed someone or after 200 seconds. Survivors can no longer discern the direction and intensity of the heartbeat.
(Orange): Gain the ability to hit 2 uncompleted generators for 100 seconds, resulting all the shut down, preventing any progression for 40 seconds. All previous generator progression in unfinished generators is lost. -
Nope can’t see a single word in my comment that mentions stealing event points... seems like you have a habit of incorrectly reading between the lines and adding words and sentences that don’t exist.
It's not in your comment. It is in the first comment that I quoted, stating that if it's possible to steal event points from your teammates without having to rescue them, then this makes them betray you, leaving you to die on the hook.
Here is where you continue answering the premise flat out wrong:
-Your own life is all that matters. You losing your life completely cancels out your reward.
Only if you have a vessel you still get all your points for your participation up to death.
Do I need to state how wrong that response is?
-The event points are scarce; you compete among teammates over event points.
Again only for vessel, which you can claim if the survivor with one messes up and gets hooked.
You state that a football team-competes against it's own team since only 1 person has the ball? No, a football team doesn't compete against itself. It has the same win-condition. Jesus Christ.
you have only 1 resource of use that stops this being a typical game day for a survivor, of the hooked person drops it you don’t need to unhook to steal it. If they don’t drop it wait for them to die and steal it.
Football players don't "steal" the ball from each other. They pass it on. Their win-condition is what would make something stealing, as it is in the Moonrise event; the event points.
People in the Moonrise event didn't "steal" from each other during the bug where everybody would get 45 points. It only became stealing after their win-condition was no longer unanimous. -
I was merely pointing out all the things people complain about are easy to still achieve in your current laid out event.
Let's put that to a test then. People complained about their Vessel being stolen and people heading off, resulting in them not getting event points.
Let's start here. How in this event would you steal and run off with the points of your teammates?
I was merely pointing out all the things people complain about are easy to still achieve in your current laid out event.
This is your comment:
Rarely contested: The dynamics of the event shouldn't incentivise players to not rescue. Because players lost their vessel when hooked, there was little incentive to rescue them if you could already steal their vessel» If for example only vessels were lost when being unhooked, then such incentive wouldn't have been lost. We want a system that thus promotes rescuing etc.
And then think a good promotion to save someone is to be tunnelled by the killer after saving so they can destroy this bluewaffle, it’s like a baton race, and the waffle gets better for each dead survivor, seems counter intuitive to me.
leave survivor to die, waffle increases in usefulness and killer has to find you after you e picked it up instead of getting save notification.You made the ridiculous accusation that you can steal event points in this event, while literally everyone has their points rewarded based on the same condition.
That is not showing that you can "easily achieve all this in the current event". It is just a flat out wrong statement.You are saying that a football team member can steal the win from their own teammate. No: No they cannot.
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@Paddy4583 said:
ugh give it up the more you try to make out it’s a flawless balanced idea the worse it gets.I’ve given plenty or game play tactics that will occur though you ignore those to just keep driving home that this is somehow a totally untuchable unflawed idea, even when plenty of flaws and abuse systems are obvious.
I get what your attempting but you’ve missed the mark, some of the ideas are good, but as a whole event it’s not well designed or balanced.
I thought your first remark wasn't about balance? You said that a said philosophy I stated wasn't met.
Balance is a separate topic to that, which related to how often hooks are attainable through ranks (with higher ranks being less hooks as enabled through pallets) and how survivability and total generator efficiency is changed upon survivor death.
Those 2 are the main points about balance. But we've barely discussed those. I'll happily discuss those.
But the minor things you mention like "sabotage check", should've been easily rebutted by yourself as a balance issue, as you'd understand that having a map with hooks that can be destroyed by 4 people is worse than having a map with hooks where only most can be destroyed by 4 people, but where a few can only destroyed by 1 person, who is easier to spot.
The main topics around balance is survival rate (across ranks); the rate at which killers can hook (across ranks); the degree to which a game is preemptively lost as a result of the x'th dead per survivor; the degree to which a killer can find the priority survivor; the amount of time it takes a survivor to get the item; and most importantly, how this matches up against one another.
But again, we've barely discussed that.Your claims were mainly (wrong) claims about Fun issues, not Balance issues;
Tunneling check (Fun issue)
Camping Check (Fun issue)
Gen rush meta check (With your use of the word, neither a fun or balance issue)
Hook sabo check (Balance issue)
DCing when points are no longer in play check (Ability to DC issue. Same as DCing when a friend dies.)
Troll ability check (Fun issue)
Killers more difficult to get full BP bonus check (Not if you look at it from an across rank perspective. Then it's the opposite:)
surviours can prevent killer progress without skill check (What?) -
Well, like I said to @se05239, what would you think if the speed boost was deactived while in a chase, but you kept the stacks?
That is actually a pretty cool idea. It's like having map control on killers that previously didn't have much of that.
That would just feel frustrating as a killer when playing normally, and lead to tricking the chase system to take advantage of it when playing... less than normally.
That is more of a problem with the chase system than with his suggestion. The game doesn't know how to recognise a chase.
You can look at the ground: All the chase mechanic would have to do is no longer discern between up and down, but only check if you are looking in the direction of the survivor (thus left and right) and whether that survivor is behind an object or not.
You can walk backwards: Whenever you walk over scratch-marks with an alpha level of x%, the chase will start/be maintained.
All this perk would have to do is only give you movementspeed when walking forward (or sideways at a 45 degree angle) in order for it all to work.
It is possible. -
@Tzeentchling9 said:
You will give them their free escape and you will thank them for it!The epitome of obedience. Killers are really being tested on their confidence and their insecurities~
Some mentally surrender, while some others prevail to keep their grounds.That makes it a piece of art on itself.
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@Swiftblade131 said:
Because ranking up is to easy.You can still get a pip even when you die, which I mean.. K!
Even worse; your opponent can pip at the same time xD
(Makes you wonder if they're actually an opponent)
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@Peanits said:
To play devil's advocate (again), why would you opt to use this perk? If you need another survivor to finish you off, even if you do heal at full speed, what benefit do you get from almost healing yourself?I feel like you would actually be hiring yourself by taking this perk. You would spend ~15 seconds healing yourself and then run the risk of getting spotted and downed before someone can finish the heal, making all that time spent healing wasted. You would still need to go find someone and spend the same total time healing anyway.
Ultimately in this scenario, everyone would be better off dropping self care entirely and switching to botany knowledge. It would save much more time in the end.
You are correct. The only things Self-Care is good at is eliminating the (uncertain) time you need to relocate yourself to teammates, which can add up to multiple minutes in certain scenario's or be impossible.
The only time this perk would be used is in the unintended scenario's where you use a med-kit to finish off the last 5%
rather than the current frustration of getting four hits and survivors running off to four septate corners of the map to remove all of that effort in 30 seconds.
Weird that people feel like they should automatically win the trade if they fail to finish the chase. Hitting someone is the gate-way to downing someone.
People that want healing to be so punishing derail the entire purpose of escaping a chase after being injured in the first place.
It's a bad idea. -
Oh so now the object is let people die if your solo then solo the killer and get everyone their points, I see my apologies I thought the incentive was to save my bad must have misunderstood all over again,
Simple question: What is more likely to survive:
A: 4 Survivors with 100% generator speed. B: 1 survivor with 400 generator speed?If your answer was A, then there's your incentive to save people. If your answer was B, then there's still your incentive to save people, as that allows you to play the 400% game with lesser gens once that time arrives.
If your objective is to not score event points then indeed it's in your strategic interest to let your teammates die on hook. You got me there.
what it is that the survivors are actually incentivised to do during this event....
The survivors are supposed to understand their generator repair efficiency distribution and should try to make sure their most efficient unit (the one with the item) is not occupied by the killer.
They should make sure they rightly consider when to make the item vulnerable to utilise it's power and when not to, as they play against a killer that is stronger in their base-state, as a result of their very strong hook options and possibly higher gen times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH9rn0ERn7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv340yni8Xg&t=3590s