Akumakaji
Akumakaji
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823624#Comment_3823624
I just saw a video a few days ago of a Survivor using it to down themselves like 5 times in a row and allowing their teammate to heal them. Is that a glitch?
The Claudette intentionally got hit by the Killer, then her and a friend ran to a different part of the map and the Claudette would plot twist and the teammate would recover her as though she was farming altruism points.
It only deactivates if you pick yourself up fully, so yeah that would work.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822707#Comment_3822707
Is it true you can only use the perk twice per match?
Yeah, thats true. You can use Plottwist once at any time to down yourself and heal, and the perk will deactivate after this. Then, once the 5th gens pops and the exit gates are powered, the perk activates again and you can use it a second time, often handing you a cool, free escape unless the killer has Deerstalker or just is extemely lucky and stumlbes over you.
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@alpha5 said:
There are. It's just you are four times more likely to hear what survivors want killers (not) to do than the other way around. Also the killer can actually punish whatever they dislike instead of having to wait for post-game chat to complain. According to some killers Boil Over and Flashy plays get you tunneled out immediately. Besides, what can survivors really do that prevents a killer from playing the game?
"I dare you, if you touch my hooks, if you even look funny at them, I swear I'll hunt you till the end of this short, self-contained chunk of the world and kill you!!!1"
"If you bring a Map offering, don't expect even one shred of mercy, you will find non. I'll tunnel at 5 gens to get my 4k if needed."0
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I am not so convinced. Yeah, she is well known, but from the character type pretty similar to Sadako - I bet most people couldn't tell the two appart unless they were standing right next to each other, and even then there is a chance.
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Slugging for the bleedout is like a sudden "Oh no!!!" moment. Everyone is sitting on their gens and letting them pop, besides that one survivor that desperately tries to pick up their mate. Eventually everyone notices that 1/2 of the bleedout timer are up and they come rushing and poking at you and you can take potshots at this or that one, sometimes they might pick the slug up, but without certain perks you send them down immediately and maybe get a second down. This is where things get extremely dangerous, because when you can get the third one, the game is effectively over, so you can now more deliverately hunt down the others.
By this time the first slug is probably dying, reliving the killer of a big pressure and basically handing them the game. One of the two remaining survivors might even give up at this point, so that hunting down the last one becomes just a small task of whittling down ressources and maybe defending the general area with the slugs.
This is how a typical slug-for-bleedout match could play out, I experienced this a couple of times during my bleedout test and yeah, its pretty effective, because you only have to deal with UB once per survivor max. Its not fun, but its more effective then going for hooks and/or tunneling. And THATS the problem. Hooking shouldn't be this weak.
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Yeah well, what can you say about this other that this is extremely ######### and mean spirited?!
At one or two occasions I might have started the mori animation and then remembered why I wanted to spare this survivor and broke it off, but thats quite extraordinary; 99.999% of the time, if you start the mori animation, you want to kill the survivor! Maybe give it a hard limit, like 2 failed attempts and the third automatically follows through with the mori.
That you even have to think of such failsafe mechanisms is a testament of the degeneracy of some parts of this community.
I guess that this something that you could bring to bear against that player? But normally you would have video proof of this … if you streamed it, thats awesome, attach the link in your ticket and voila. Otherwise: tough luck, but maybe install OBS or something similar and be ready at a moments notice.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823081#Comment_3823081
Since wanna play us vs them lets play. First of all you can hit the survivors out the gate, it also gives you bp for it, if t bagging at the gates bothers you dont go to it ,tab and do something else( just like we are told when we are slug for 4mins on the ground) break walls or pallets that you didnt do in the trial or simply dont go to the gate?
I never go to the gate and it actually makes survivors more mad you didnt let their stuff at the gate bother you. Before you call out me look at you going off topic brining up t bagging at the gates.
I at least am on topic because its another killer cry baby complaint of nerfing something on survivor so it makes perfect sense
Also yes apparently its indeed that killers want is just auto hook auto win 2 hook on ground because until you can tell me ONE thing killers do not whine about it makes sense I said what said. What do yall seriously want us to do or how are we to play then?
Bro went on a whole rant, before he finally came around to answer my question :D But thanks for the response, even though I don't really get how you read any "us vs them" vibes into that statement of mine; I guess that you are really under pressure right now and need to let of some steam - thats okay, we have all been at that place at one point.
I got your back and will humor you. My mentioning of the exitgates wasn't my main point, but it was an illustration of some sarcasm done well, or at least better: slightly over the top, but not rediculesly out of proportion. I know fully well how to react to survivors urge to twerking, but your advise has been noted and I am eager to try them out myself! If you allow me the small tangent: I have been slugged and bleed out by killers less enough that I can still count it on both hands, and the same can be said about the amount of times that survivors would just leave and not at last one stay behind to wait out the hook timer, so one happens disproportionate more often ^_-
But Bro, listen: I gave you an easy way out of this situation via commedy, YET you insist that your statement was not meant in jest, but full on serious … I mean, everyone is allowed their own oppinon, but with this kinda statements your credibility will just be tossed out of the window and no one will take you or your shonen MC vibes serious.
But okay, lets give you an honest answer: just as SURVIVORs, KILLERs are a very diverse group consisting of many, many different individuals. Not everyone is the same, I know, surprise, surprise, and there are probably as many oppinions, if not more so, then players in the respective group. We tend to generalize things a bit when we talk about "hur dur, all survivors do this and that", but usually we don't mean factually ALL of them, but just a majority or even sizable chunk.
WIth a playerbase as big as DBDs there is bound to be someone complaining about every little aspect of the game, heck I even saw someone complaining about Red Herring at one point. But just because one Killer did, its not that the whole Killer population is up in arms against Red Herring. In the past you saw a big, big chunk of the killer base complaining about DH and first itteration MFT and, yeah, Distortion. This were all problematic perks (Distortion to a lesser extend, I mostly vied for the nerf of DH and MFT, but thats another story) and you saw many, many different players of all walks of life argue back and forth.
But since DH and MFT got nerfed, most killers are quite okay with exhaustion perks and acknowledge that they are akin to powers for survivors and play an important part in their kit. Yeah, I sometimes grown and grit my teeth when a survivor escapes with a Lithe over a dropped pallet at a weak loop or all survivors zoom off with SB as soon as I get close to the gen, but you wont find my coming back to the forums and asking for nerfs for this perks, essentially moving the goalpost. Most killers don't - someone here and there does. Thats just the nature of the beast, so "showing you a single thing thats not complaint about killers" would essentially proof nothing - but I bet that you would be hardly pressed to find scores over scores of complaints about SB and Lithe, even though they are the most used exhaustion perks right now. Capiche?
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The Void Bomb was legit the best new idea they implemented in the game since forever. Its a strong new item that isn't as frustrating to play against like Flashlights or Flashbangs and it sometimes leads to hillarious situations where both parties get locked into walking animations against some walls.
Please give us the Void Bomb in regular play :)
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It would be so nice if every killer would get one or two alternative moris, so that we would get some variety.
Maybe this would also be a fun opportunity to take a page out of the mortal combat book and introduce something like Friendship moves, maybe reskinned as "Sudden Mercy", where the killer shows some mercy in the last second and tosses the survivor down the hatch that spawns right next to them.
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822468#Comment_3822468
This shift in playstyle was bound to happen, but it’s really not the end of the world. BHVR just needs to roll out a better matchmaking system that pairs up players who actually try with others doing the same. Solo Q isn’t bad when you’ve got a team that knows what they’re doing and doesn’t throw in the towel at the first little inconvenience.
@Gplays2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822476#Comment_3822476
THIS. Solo Queue is very bearable with people who know what they are doing…it is the terrible teammates that you are paired with that ruin the game and not the killer they face most of the time at least.
You are both right. I never gave it much thought, but most of my bad survivor matches had a direct link to bad teammates - or antimates, as we call them.
This is especially noticable in a duo-SWF, where you can always count on your buddy to have your back, but the other two are absolute coin tosses so often turn up blank.
I talked about this in some other thread, but I had a recent game where Corrupt Intervention blocked all the main hall gens in RPD and me and my mate got chased all over the east side and tried to pressure gens there, while the killer was around and pingponging between us, while the other two survivors took their merry time to chill out next to a blocked gen, either till the 2min were up or one of us went down.
And when we both got eventually hooked, they took their merry time to peel away from their respective gens, leading to a cosy 4K at 4 gens.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823081#Comment_3823081
I understand that its sarcasm, but what do you expect to gain by stating something this far removed from any reality? Its not funny, its not clever, its not helping you dismanteling the others cause, so why does this exact thing creeps up ALL the time?
It's sarcasm, but it paints a vivid picture in the reader's head that illustrates killers as being unreasonable. Bolstering your own argument by trying to discredit the other side is a common tactic. People on the forums don't do it right, though, they lack any subtlety with ad hominem. They start at 100 and then have nowhere to go, and if someone starts at 100 they come off as lacking credibility, but they don't get that. (I don't think people necessarily understand this is what they're doing, they're just copying what they see everyone else on the internet doing and so at this point 99% of people don't understand you're not actually supposed to do this in an argument. It's not just a fallacy; it can also make the person using it look silly and childish.)
Or the person gets killers responding "nuh-uh, survivors" and it becomes a survivor vs killer fight, which no one ever wins, but it derails any sensible argument. So many DbD threads get closed for that reason.
Edit: You probably already knew this. I mostly wrote this out in the hopes even one person might read it and adjust their argument style in the future.
Thank you :) Yeah, thats why I am always happy with your responses, they are well thought out and rather sophisticated and lack the crude and crass quality that I lamented in my own post. Carry on, no matter how tragic :P
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822674#Comment_3822674
Because there's no incentive to do that. Why would you get 3 hooks across 3 different survivors, instead of 3 on 1 and get 1 out of the game? Asking killers to do that is asking them to play in a "nice" way, a way that gives their opponents a handout in exchange for nothing. You used to get something from hooking, which encouraged killers to go for whoever (old Pop, old Pain Res, old Overcharged/CoB). But now all of that is gone, and it's an even greater time crunch than before.
With base anti-tunnel mechanics, and still no touching of the several-year "anti-tunnel" meta, slugging is the next best thing. Realistically, you don't get anything from hooking. So why not start putting progress on survivors' bleed-out meters, and not have to deal with flashlight/pallet saves, instead of their 70-second+ hook meters? You can't get Pop or Pain Res from that, but you can still get Surge and Eruption.
And SWF is going to be "cried about" until they get addressed, because in all the years it's been a feature, the role has never been touched. Solo gets to suffer from the worst matchmaking of any game I've seen (constant bad teammates vs good killers), and SWF doesn't get anything done to them. And yet solo players, I assume, will still defend SWF. "Don't punish them for playing with friends!" Why should people get to play with friends without a gen debuff, if it means all the SWFs who actually play to win just stomp killers no matter what? You think these SWFs are winning all the time because they're better than the killer players? Usually not the case. If anything, they're usually a lot worse, counting all the mistakes they make in the average match, but just win anyway because "me do gens fast" and orchestrated gameplay using the communication and pre-made builds they get for free. I know we usually don't debuff teams on other games, but this game is legit not balanced for them… like at all. It's balanced around 1-2 good survivors martyring for their terrible teammates' escape, whilst killers are sweating the whole time anyway.
This explains the whole situation and problem perfectly and goes quite in-depth. And yeah, the game is balanced somewhat around the power of SWF, thus making everyone else, including the most numerous and vulnerable group in the game (soloQ survivors) surrfer as a consequence. I proposed a change that would defang SWFs neatly without "punishing players for playing with their friends. OMG!", while not affecting soloQ in any way, but it usually gets shot down.
Just let everyone see the others loadouts and prohibit multipicks of the same perks in any pre-made group. Simple as that. No more "4 DH/Unbreakbables" to work through and everyone has to find their little niche, but its not THAT punishing. In my regular duo and tripple SWFs we have very little overlap in perks, because we all got different playstyles and try to achieve different things, and the couple of overlap perks could easily be sorted out.
But any soloQ players getting rolled into that match wouldn't have their perk choices affected at all. A lot of nerfs in the past could have been averted by this system, too: going against 4 DH or MFT was pure torture, but only having one survivor with it is manageable. I think this is such an obvious and elegant solution that I am wondering why it gets so much resistance?
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822996#Comment_3822996
since you deleted original comment
Okay, before anything else: The forums are definitely broken, because I did not delete that, and I doubt a mod did, either, since it didn't get scrubbed from quotes and I received no notification or warning or anything of the sort. Same thing happened with the thread about 'does anyone ever recommend this game?' where I made a joke about it being against the Geneva Convention, and that comment got wiped too.
when killer hooks a survivor and someone is quick to come for a save, killer is well aware that at least 2 survivors are away from their objectives from the very moment unhook notification pops. This makes killer able to either:
try to push at least one of other two survivors remaining on gens while having established pressure on unhooked and unhooker if they reliably know where at least one of those two is;
get back to hook and force unhooked or unhooker (or both) to stay away from objectives and achieve another hook (or hard tunnel unhooked if they have been hooked first really early and unhooked very early too)
What greeding survivor on hook achieves:
killer is expecting someone to come for an unhook and thus they think there are two survivors remaining on gens (after what killer makes decision whether to force remaining two survivors off gens, come back to the hook or proxy camp if more than one go for the save), while in reality it's three of them almost nullifying killer's hook pressure + one can come for a moment, use Reassurance and provide more safety;
it makes hard tunneling much less profitable since it will be already ~50+ seconds of hooked survivor being on hook, which is kinda wasted time.
The only thing you're saying here is that this hinders the killer when they want to camp or tunnel, which is exactly the point of those +10 seconds. This is a reversal of an unintended collateral buff to these two tactics in the form of the +10 seconds on gens, basically reverting that dynamic to pre-6.1.
If killer decides to slug, the gap where other survivors can make decisions is gone and also, killer circumvents various on/off hook related survivor perks, +10s hook stage and any kind of planned save.
But the planned save is in the killer's benefit, and pretty much the only hook-based survivor perk that can legitimately hinder the killer is Deliverance, and that is only going to work in coordinated SWF.
Also, again: You're dodging the +10s hook stage by trading it for +120s. How is that a good deal? The very issues you have with the +10s are exacerbated literally twelve-fold by slugging.
@NarkoTri1er pretty well explained how slugging affects pressure and how not going for the unhooking for extended periods can rob the killer themselves of any pressure. Its not that hard to understand, but you seem to purposefully dodging this.
Regarding tunneling, this was brought up as the only way the killer could salvage such a position and apply some pressure themselves, but this isn't viable because of all the anti-tunnel - while tunneling is not fun for the tunneled player, I know this well from my own experiences, most survivors fail to understand how much they pressure the killer by just splitting up. To the survivors its so often "hur dur he tunneled at 4 gens … what a looser!", while the killer saw during their chase two other gens that were 75+% and one other already on a good way to 50%. This already backs the killer heavily against the wall and depending on where the survivors spawned it makes defending 4 gens with just 1 hook to their name impossible.
And like I explained already, the +10s hook timer is NOT equal to the +10s gen time, or as you put it " these ten seconds are a pretty exact counterweight to the ten extra seconds on the gen."
The 10s hook time allow all other active survivors that much more idle time to do what they want, just like Windows of Opportunity was infinitely more useful to survivors (showing in its 30% pickrate) then old, pre-buff Zanshin Tactics (with a measly 0,6% pickrate), even though both perks had practically the exact same effect.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823007#Comment_3823007
Nah they just gonna keep going till we start the match right by the hooks with 2 hooks states on the ground ready to be hooked.😀 This perk actually was lonq qq about even before distortion complaints its that bad.
See, I am quite in support of not nerfing WoO, but someone always has to bring up this notion here, ie "killers wil only be happy once survivors start the trial on the hook". I understand that its sarcasm, but what do you expect to gain by stating something this far removed from any reality? Its not funny, its not clever, its not helping you dismanteling the others cause, so why does this exact thing creeps up ALL the time? I seriously don't understand it. But I also don't understand the stronk urge to wait fuitile for 2min at the exit gates for the off-chance that the killer wants to admire your twerking skillz.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822678#Comment_3822678
Its almost as if the game would be much more fun for both sides if the game was balanced around hooks instead of kills. But people keep saying that tru3ta1ent doesn't know what he is talking about…
@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823031#Comment_3823031
"They hated him because he told the truth"
For real though, the guy is sometimes a bit unsufferable with his rages and rants, but he was spot on with this one. Hooks would be a so much better metric to go by. Imagine a world if any hook on every survivor filled the hook meter, and once the killer got 8 hooks, the next survivor hooked would be sacrificed, no matter if they got hooked one time or by some fluke of fate, 7 times.
Then gen rushing could be handled and finde tuned in a similar way and the game would probably so much more fun to play.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822716#Comment_3822716
increased hook timers and perks like Reassurance are not only used for anticamp purposes, unless you have completely linear understanding of the game
How, exactly, do survivors benefit from another survivor being incapacitated for longer?
They can sit on their gen and finish it and still go for the safe, its like having your cake and eating it. How often have you left a 90% gen to go for an unhook, only to return to it and see it being hit by a pop at the killer loitering around and prohibiting you from finishing it? And it doesn`t always need to be this full 10s, its reassuring enough that you know you have so much time on your hand and that you don't need to panic, that puts so much more pressure on the killer.
EDIT: all this beautiful explainations and charts like "one survivor on hook, one in chase, on going for the unhook, leaving only one doing gens" gets shifted to "two survivors doing gens and finishing them with ample time to go for an unhook". It totally messes with the status que that was established, and just like (old) Zenshin Tactics was not like Windows of Opportunity in viability, even though both had the exact same effect, +10s on the hook timer is much more impactful then +10s increased gen time - they might look the same, but they are worlds appart.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I think we are well past time for a base kit answer to slugging. It's pretty insane that this type of game play is tolerated.
I think that this is the most tonedeaf answer to the problem, because its ignoring and turning away from the underlying problem and reason why 1) killers slug and 2) its more effective then hooking.
Over time Killers options got fewer and fewer, eith many playstyles becoming obsolete and umviable. While the elimination of undesirable playstyles is a good thing on the surface level, it also leads to frustration and the feeling of loss and being forced down one specific way.
While I am not defending the full on slug build, the community is very fast with issuing nerfs, bans or basekit solutions for everything. But every basekit option dilutes the perk variety and cements the meta further.
I think that we should either sweeten the deal for killers or work a way out to incentivice then down the more desirable actions. Let's Make Hooking Great Again.
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@fixblitzskin said:
I'm surprised because yesterday i was watching a video of a youtuber doing an experiment to see how effective slugging and no hooking is. I was like damn that sucks and was glad that I never came across a killer like that. Then I got one. I had WGLF so I was picking people up but even then it was terrible and it was a Dracula too so anytime we got any distance he will just turn to bat form. Anyway we all bleed out at 5 gens. Crazy how youtubers trying to highlight how dumb something is causes it so be used more.
True. I tried this myself for an evening and it was very effective … but boi did I get salty and loaded responses; THIS survivors were not happy about this playstyle in the least.
But the content creator to the side, this here highlights a much bigger problem: with how fast gens fly and how much time hooking wastes and how dangerous it is in terms of flashlights and how long the hook timer nowadays is with the extra +10s (and potential Reassurance and Camaradery) and how many strong survivor perks get activated and powered via hooking/unhooking … we now arrived at a point where it is legit more beneficial for the killer to never go hooking, but to keep everyone slugged.
If I were just concerned with winning, I would make this my main playstyle. I didn't, but really, hooking has become more and more an asset to the survivors, all this "a hooked survivor isn't doing gens" sayers be damned.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822448#Comment_3822448
yeah I agree with you. There were a lot of perks that needed nerfs like dead hard coh and made for this. Those perks I felt had valid complaints. But when I hear complaints about hope (someone made a thread about it recently) or even current lithe (when no one complained about the perk back then) it’s just ridiculous. Again I see complaints about resurgence now💀 like bruh. It’s just like how I feel about perks like ultimate weapon. Yeah ok it might be annoying but the perk didn’t need a nerf either compared to something like eruption. At least in my opinion. Just not a fan the “let’s complain about something and once that gets nerfed let’s go after something else” mentality.
Resurgence is an interesting case though. The community as a whole hasn't caught up to it, but its pretty good now and some content creators have showcased builds where they selfcared in 2.3s off hook. Thats just such a strong reset … couple that with some kind of self-unook, like the SWF version with multiple Up The Ante and Salty Lips that lead to basically 100% unhooking chance, and the killer can say goodbye to any pressure. Thats what you might call overtuned, ie performing a bit too well … but on the other hand its just a pretty good feeling to just needing a little bit of touch up after an unhooking ^_-
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On the other hand …. its specifically named "Unknown" - like the killer whoms schtick it is that you shouldn't research him.
What if this is some sort of Augmented Reality meta gaming sidequest for us to solve and at the end we could find out some new content about "The Unknown"?
Creepy! This is the first time that a killer is actually participating in this forums and stalking us :V
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I noticed too, but I guess it was some kind of spammer that got removed? But its normally not worth to dwell on this things, its not normal forum stuff, so it shouldn't affect anyone of us.
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@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822500#Comment_3822500
Since the event is a separate game mode they could do more to curb the increased sweaty play that happens. I would love it if they made it so in event mode you had pre-made class loadouts like in 2v8. Only items/add ons are the event ones and only offerings allowed are the event or BP offerings. People that want normal perk, items and add ons can go play the regular game mode.
For real, why not try something "radical" like this for future events? We should make some noice and make BHVR notice and maybe they will give it a try?
The big problem with this is that they would have to come up with loadouts for every killer. On the other hand, maybe it wouldn't be that complicated, as they would only need to give a couple of loadouts for everyone and didn't have to create the secondary shared effects that made the 8v2 loadouts so special.
Heck, I pet we could come up with three decent and fun loadouts for every killer, so the peeps at BHVR should be able to do the same :)
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@[Deleted User] said:
When you get tunneled out and mori'd at 5 gens cause the killer wants "mori value", tell me then how much of an advantage it is.
If the killer managed to eek out a mori at 5 gens, then thats not the killer thats playing spectacular, thats the survivors messing up big time. At least one of them should be on a gen so far away from the action that they could finish it in that time. I mean, not saying that it feels comfortable to get mori-ed at 4 gens, but 5? Common! At least try doing gens.
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@MaddieMage said:
I just played against a singularity where the only perks they ran were STBFL and unrelenting and no add ons and they easily wiped the floor with us. It was pods over every gen and loop point and just constantly slipstream to instant teleport to instant hits and downs. No cooldowns on anything.
Sounds like you played a veritable badabum Killing Machine!
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@bm33 said:
Happens every event where event BP is only given to the survivors on the gen when it finishes instead of to all survivors still alive in the match. People don't want to lose out on the event BP so they glue themselves to the gen. Too many times people do 99% of a gen only to get chased off and have someone else come in to finish it - person that does 1% gets event BP and person that did 99% gets nothing. They're not about to risk leaving the gen to unhook a teammate and lose out on event BP because someone else runs over to finish the gen. This also contributes to the sweaty matches - survivors try to finish as many gens as possible for event BP, killers try to hook as quickly as possible for their event BP, and it's just a vicious circle of trying to get as much event BP as fast as they can.
They need to make 2 changes in events for survivor event BP. 1. Give all alive survivors in the match event BP when a gen is finished and 2. Give event BP for safe unhooks. Survivors won't worry about missing out on event BP if they leave the gen for an unhook and they'll actually be encouraged to leave the gen to get more event BP by saving their teammate.
I didn't take this into account! Yeah, that sounds like the culprit and it would be cool if they could change that somehow. I can understand why finishing the gen is tied to specific dailies or tome challenges and achievments, but for casual play and this events, every survivor who is alive should get the bonus, as most of them contributed in some way to the success of the trial. Sure, you would now and then have some sneaky rat that hides in the corner to gorge themselves on the hard work of others, but overall it would be much more healthy if everyone partook in finished gens so that this "gen stealing" doesn't happen anymore and people just play normally.
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@Senile_Grandpa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822480#Comment_3822480
The only offerings I bring are bloodpoint offerings.
I personally love Iri Moris and try to get "Blood on my Face" whenever possible.
The only time when map offerings are somewhat okay is when a new map releases: there is always an achievment tied to the map, and waiting for a certain map to show up via RNG with the 40+ maps we got right now is a futile attempts. But there should be another way of tackeling that issue. Maybe declare each day or twice a day one map that will have boosted pickrate, so that you could plan reasonably ahead for this kinda stuff. But the way Map Offerings allow for pre-building and organising for a certain map is just very unhealthy and toxic and will forever lead to this kinda mysterious router problems during startup.
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@Senile_Grandpa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822474#Comment_3822474
The privilige is unreal. If someone use a map offering, or any offering for that matter, I will stay and play the game. The comments on this thread are extremely privileged.
As do I most of the time, but I take the map offering as an open daclaration of war and show neither mercy nor respite and most survivors I play against call this cringe or sweaty or unfair or unfun or feel the need to express that my parents never loved or … or … or … … …
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@Senile_Grandpa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822470#Comment_3822470
Did I say that I'm using map offerings? Are you okay?
I gleaned that information from the fact that you are so often "forced into a loading simulator". I could be mistaken, and in that case, "sowwy", but yeah, you come off like someone who is kinda salty that their map offerings got canceled so often, that they made a thread about it on the DBD forums ^^ So even if I am mistaken, I guess that I am pretty okay and my reasoning ain't unreasonable.
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@Senile_Grandpa said:
I'm stunned by the comments here. Do people seriously support this issue? Why is it normal for players getting into loading simulators?
This forum is insufferable.
Have you considered just not playing map offerings and just let the RNG take you to any map it fancies? Don't give me the "but map offerings are in the game, so I have the RIGHT and PRIVILEGE to use them". Map Offerings are the problem here, not the players dodging them.
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@drsoontm said:
Yet when I try to play as survivor I give up, still in the queue, after a few minutes (and a connection bonus of 75%)
My killer queues are instant. I've tried many of them: my main as some I only played for the first time today.
There is so much of a survivor exodus I can't get a slot.
Its always the same. I think the only time we really saw something like this happening was during the pre-6.1 era, when killer was at their lowest and survivors were at their strongest in modern DBD (there were this weird insta-moris and insta-gen-repair add-on ins old DBD, coupled with some infinites, but no one knew how to loop back then, so I wouldn't count that).
During that time we had really longer and longer survivor queues, because Killer felt like a constant uphill battle, while you worked through layers upon layers of safety nets, but it was never as bad as some of the doom & gloom crowd made it sound.
Since then, the game stayed pretty popular, but what has changed is that both roles were forced to adept to the different meta changes by trimming the fat and getting more and more efficient. Now survivors will in general split up and pressure gens, while killers feel like they need to tunnel and turn the game into a 3v1 asap, or they will lose.
And this learned efficiency wont ever be unlearned by the community and general population, the only change will come from basegame changes via BHVR, and no one knows if this is even possible with the way the current engine works. During my most fun period of DBD (around 2021) I would chase a survivor, eventually hook them, while one gen popped, then I would get into a second chase hooked them and a second gen popped, and by that time the game area had shrunk so that the game heated up and pallets were used, so that chases became shorter, while gen after gen got done. Today you don't get this kind of games anymore, survivors nearly univerally split up and pressure multiple gens, while killers concentrate on two survivors and maybe even tunnel and most people lament this fact, but are of course unable to play any other way, because the current meta and learned behaviour of both sides forces them into pure efficiency mode.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822438#Comment_3822438
I know its a bit of a tangent, but my vote has always been on separating the map offerings into [Indoor/outdoor] and leaving it at that. That way for killers that specifically need indoor or outdoor (or survivors who specifically prefer one over the other) it would be a good medium vs cherry picking specific busted maps. We got rid of shards ages ago, its time to do something about map offerings, I agree.
Thats not bad, actually, and way better then what we got now.
BTW, I would go a step further and make getting an indoor map basekit for Scratched and Banged-Up Mirror Myers. We can't let that guy down :D
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821081#Comment_3821081
“God forbid somebody complains that perk that is supposed to help new players is actively being used by veteran players to serve as a bandaid for their refusal to learn maps and tiles, yall are truly insufferable when somebody actually mentions skill.”
You guys complain about everything tho and then once the thing you complain about gets nerfed, you move on to the next thing. The complaining never stops
Also again. How are survivors supposed to know when a a pallet has been dropped by someone else when it’s their turn to get chased?
Moving the goalpost is just human nature, someone will always move towards the next thing that poses a threat, BUT you should also take the ammount and quality of complaints in mind. Back in the days I fought tooth and nail to get DH and MFT nerfed, because they just made the game unplayable as the killer and many, many were on my side.
Now, I think that exhaustion perks are in a good spot and everytime someone complaints about "OMG everyone uses Lithe these days to get a free escape! Nerf please!" or "#########?!?! SB is so toxic and unfun to play against! PLease nerf!!1" I defend this perks, because I TRY to be more neutral and unbiased then most people give me credit for :P Sure, its impossible, because I am a killer main, but I also have the pic picture somewhat in mind. When a survivor uses Lithe to just fast vault over a pallet they just tdropped and zoom off or when the whole lobby has SB and zooms off once I get even close to a gen, yeah, I grown a bit and grit my teeth, but I don't ask for nerfs, because this perks are in a pretty good spot and most players understand that Exhaustion perks are an important class for survivors, more akin to their power then anything else.
You will always have someone complaining about something, but most killers ain't jumping the wagon like they did with DH or MFT. With WoO I see issues, but ultimately they are not as pressing as this other perks I mentioned and I also see the value or even need of this perk for beginners, who are objectively the most vulnerable group in DBD and already have a pretty tough time. Maybe a nerf like WoO going into cooldown after you threw a certain number of pallets could be healty? Or maybe something like leaving the map awareness, but blocking out pallets and vaults that are close, like up to 12m could work? I don't know, but I will leave this in BHVRs hand without arguing for this kinda change, because I think that newbies need it. Still, I REALLY loath playing against yellow brainrot survivors who just run from one yellow spot to the next and predropping everything. Ugh.
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And survivors could also start not using that many offerings to stack the game artificially in their favor. Statistically there are many more survivor sided maps then killer sided ones, and I will take on any Pale Rose or Eiry or The Game that RNG throws at me … but if offerings are involved, this is an open declaration of war and I play as unfun and tunnely and brutal and unforgiven as I can muster.
Most often survivors are shocked and call me names for doing that … but they feel no remorse for using offerings on the next killer, to custombuild their loadouts for the occasion and stack it again in their favor.
Map offerings are one of the absolute WORST consumables the game has to offer, and I am 100% in camp "map offerings should ban its realm from the pool of available maps, not send you there automatically". Yeah, it would screw the fun Scratched Mirror Myers who need indoor maps to thrive, but thats the scrifices we need to make.
And this "hur dur, I just wanted to see something different, after RNG send me to the same map 3 times today" is such a weak excuse … especially if its followed by a thinlyveiled lie like "and I had no idea that The Game/Badam Preschool/The Eiry/Hawkings was survivor sided, I just like the visuals of that map". Yeah buddy, sure…
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822065#Comment_3822065
Same here. I go for my 8 hooks, and then I just goof off with the survivors, and farming with them
My goal most of the time is something like 10 hooks: a little bit Lethality, but not sweating too much. I must say, I really like the Voidbombs, they add a certain chaotic quality to the game that I haven't seen … since Chaos Shuffle ^^""" But you probably get what I mean, many matches of "normal" DBD are quite predictable to a certain degree, with much of the same being played, but the Void Bombs … Chefs KIss! They can help a lot, but survivors ain't immune to its effect either, and I have at one time weaved my way through a shrouded Jungle Gym with a survivor on my shoulder and found the hook by sheer dumb luck and determination :D
At other times I have run ineffective against walls and stuck there for the whole duration.
EDIT: BTW, how exactly do the killer haunts work? Do they fly for a certain distance and then slash? And if they just zoom by they make the survivors scream? Or will they colide with obstacles and slash? I really have no idea how they work and how some killers can reliably two-tap survivors with them and their M1 attack ^^
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822099#Comment_3822099
I cannot imagine playing a game like this. Like what are people even doing? THIS is enjoyable? Asking in ernst.
I cannot stress enough how nothing builds empathy like walking in the other sides shoes for a mile. While I consider myself a killer main, outside of that 8v2 there is no way for us lone wolves to play together, so I play pretty regularly with a couple of friends in 2-4 SWFs (the 4 SWFs are rare, indeed though). And getting tunneled as a survivor at 4 gens really doesn't feel good. But I often see things as the killer, ie, yeah, we only got one gen done, but there were 2 other gens mostly done and another halfway done, so the killer is already starting to get backed against the wall and NEEDS to turn this 3v1 or perish.
I really feel like mentioning this every other thread, but the big turning point was 6.1 Before the survivors felt save, because they were pretty safe and could effort all kind of dumbfoolery and still escape. After 6.1 things got leveled hard and many killers also ABUSED their new power to the max, so that the survivor population as a whole got their stuff together and started to become more efficient, which in turn lead to killers becoming more efficient in killing.
Now all the fat is trimmed away and both sides are as leans and as mean as possible with very little room for playful behaviour. If a perk isn't extremely meta and giving value every match, most of the playerbase discard is as "utterly useless, you are borderline throwing by equipping that". And both sides are somewhat right in their pursue of efficiency, because most games the other side doesn't give you any foot spare room.
Game needs to incentivice survivors to be doing gens together again, as to prevent the three gens popping after the first chase, and protecting against tunneling, by giving the killer some incentive to keep everyone alive until after the 8th hook. If BHVR can somehow pull this off, the game could really blossom.
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Luuuuv <3
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821929#Comment_3821929
Yeah, that's been suggested. Specifically if everyone else is hooked and second stage, the last standing survivor can be mori'd. So you don't rob people of self unhook perks or attempts. Really hope they do that, would actually make finisher moris a fast way to end a match instead of the opposite with people waiting out people on hook to get it.
That would be very good. A couple of times the last person on the hook was adamant to make every single skill check and waste as much time possible on a lost game, just to spite me as the killer (and a couple of them even admitted to this in the post game chat).
This change would be so much more healthy for the game: if there is no chance of the others unhooking, well, then just let the killer do their mori.
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I don't want to make a MMR reference here, because there is a pretty good thread over there talking about how people on the forums weaponize MMR to demean others … so I will put it this way: In MY matches, I get humiliated so much by the survivors, who use and abuse every inch they got and most matches are extremely tight and I need to sweat my behind off just to keep afoot.
One mistake can mean humiliation at the exit gates from four overly twerking doofus, feeling the urge to rub in how much BETTER they are then me and that I should uninstall the game and "OMG how can you fall for two spins with 3k hours? Buwahhahahaha looooooser!". This stuff rarely gets to me, but it makes it hard to empathise with survivors who play as hard as I am and then either rub it in or try to gaslight me to think that I didn't earn my victory.
The biggest problem this game has is probably its player base and the culture of disrespect it garners. If players genuinely give up or wriggle on the floor or gift me their items, I most likely will show mercy and be a good sport, but most survivors I face really go out of their way to be as obnoxious as possible — its probably their survival strategy that worked: get the killers attention and waste as much time as possible for the rest, but its really not "fun" to play against all the time.
And Singularity … god, I tried so often to really get into him, but he is extremely tough to learn. Sure, you can have a decent game here and there against mediocre survivors, but against actually good survivors — man, they just skin me alive and nothing works. This killer needs to put in so much work and makro-micro-management and think three steps ahead for effects that other killers get with one quarter of the effort.
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Yeah, it's always the same with the sweats. During events I try to take it more chill and let more survivors "off the hook" baduuum and most today seemed to be in the mood for memeing around after most of the gens were done. Made some good BP today and personally I think that the smoke bomb is extremely strong it completely messes up everything and I just bump into a wall until the effect subsides.
The killers phantom I haven't completely figured out yet, I guess when it's summoned it flies straight ahead and makes everyone it flies through scream and after x flighttime it attacks, potentially injuring/downing survivors. But I don't think hat you got any control over when the attack takes place right? Gotta time it right.
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Tonight me and my duomate ran into a Desthslinger in RPD. His Corrupt Intervention blocked all the usual suspects gens in the main hall, and me and my mate got into the other side where he constantly switched between us whenever one of us was on a gen.
Our other two random mates? Did absolutely NOTHING! ALL the time we were chased or helping each other or doing our gens,they did nothing. 5he only gens that got worked at were our two under the killers nose.
I guess they wanted to wait Corrupt out or something. And then they didn't come for the safe until it was too late: 4K at 4gens
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821062#Comment_3821062
Same here! I went through flashbang withdrawal.
The struggle is real.
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@smurf said:
I mean, I get the sentiment, but I think when people read the end of that message, they'll all feel like you called them bad and dumb. I'm even feeling a bit defensive after reading it.
Me too! And I know that I am dogshit with a flashlight, thats why I am never using one and occasionally try my hand at Flashbangs, which are easier to time for me.
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@Sandt1985 said:
Killer main, here. If anything, I'd actually give this perk a WoO a buff. Since Zanshin Tactics is the killer equilivent of WoO and recently got a second effect added on to it, I don't really have much of an issue with WoO getting a second effect as well.
As for the main effect of WoO, I don't really have a problem with it. If anything, its got me to rethink how strong the blindness status effect is, and has be using some Blindness perks and addons more oftenJust for being a little bit pendantic, again :P
There is one very little difference between WoO and Zanshin Tactics, one could even say that they were absolutely opposite in one aspect: before the nerf to Zanshin Tactics with like 0,6% pickrate, this perk was on the very, very, very last place of the killer perk list, while WoO was the very, very, very first pick for survivors with nearly 30% pick rate, clearly this two were NOT the same, even though their effect was very similar, but no one ever used Zanshin Tactics, besides Onis on their adept run and Arinad, the Clown maniac who wrote a book about Clown tactics. This numbers will now for sure shange, was Zanshin is now a proper perk, but I just wanted to throw this in ^_-
Killers just can't glean this much valuable information from just knowing where vaults and pallets are, while this information is extremely useful for survivors.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820719#Comment_3820719
I love how even when a survivor beelines to unhook someone they trying to die on hook that unhooked survivor can completely circumvent that by literally walking to the killer, vaulting, or just standing still.
That is true, but I always do my best to save people when I notice they are trying to suicide on hook.
They clicked "Play", they don't get to leave ASAP and ruin my game. Not if I can prevent that.
I literally had ragequit moments were I used two of my chances to unhook me, when I got saved by a kind teammate, and this selfless act let me pull myself together and finish the round, because I wanted to honor the risk that player took. Some of these games I died, some I even escaped, so yeah, go for saves, there is always the chance that you give that survivor the push they need, and in the worst case scenario they will distract the killer for like 15-20s to get killed on hook.
(I lied, in the real worst case scenario they go AFK and allow the killer to hunt for the 4K in absolute leisure, but psssssst).
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@CautionaryMary said:
As a person who hardly uses WOO, it's hardly a problem.
Most people that I see run WOO are solo-queue or maybe a less coordinated SWF team. Like others have said WOO normally helps people learn tiles and maps (I've actively told newer people I play with to get Kate Denson to learn the RNG of pallets and jungle gyms).
Most SWF can call out where they drop a pallet, especially if they know clock callouts. Therefore, a WOO nerf would only hurt solo-queue and uncoordinated SWF, while doing nothing for coordinated SWF.
Other players are solo-queue to see where a pallet was dropped to avoid going into a dead zone.
Even if you go back to the previous iteration, I would predict people would still use it as it provides utility to keep a chase going especially with how stealth has been obliterated due to excessive use of aura reading in the game.
If you think a survivor is running WOO and you can normally tell, the best thing for you to do is to drop chase and find someone else out of position instead of continually chasing someone going from one pallet to another.
I am in camp "even though there are issues, don't nerf WoO", but just for being a little bit pendantic: if a perk receives a nerf, but its still wildly used afterwards, thats a good indicator that it WAS indeed too strong. Though it could also be that the perk just has no alternatives and even though its now nerfed, there just isn't any alternative. In the hypothetical case of WoO, it could very possibly fall into both.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820640#Comment_3820640
Wait did the bot get the hatch?! Lmao 🤣 smh
Yes! I am not completely sure why the bot didn't just run out, but I think during the chaos at the border the killer situated itself between the bot and the exitgate and the bot tried to make distance, and because the bot knew where the hatch was it reckoned that that was the safer option of escape. But also the locker play and killer blind was so amazing. This bot was on steroids.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820626#Comment_3820626
Yes. I hate survivor bots on playing both ends because they can predict your moves as killer and they ditch endgame so fast.
For your enjoyment I will leave this impossibly based bot gameplay here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaSl75X8NuE -
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820478#Comment_3820478
I like your instadown idea, how does this sound?
Their auras are revealed and they suffer from the Exposed status effect for as long as they are in the gate areas, after leaving they have a 10 second exposed linger effect after leaving, and increase the block duration duration to 80 seconds.I feel like the instant hook teleport is a bit much, but the rest is good. 👍🏻
You gotta start high so that you can then curb it down a notch or two :D
The idea stems from the fact that there are aften not enough hooks nearby the exit gate, in order to fully get value from it. I had matches were I downed three survivors in there but it gave me jack. There was only one hook and on the way to the next the survivor would have wriggled off. So all I got was that single hook while we waited together for the Bloor Warden to tick out, so that they could crawl through the exit gates. For such a hard perk, this was extremely underwhelming.
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@cclain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820521#Comment_3820521
I mean , your right.
But maybe someting like give DS and OTR base line for all survivor ( so prevent killer to tunel)
Give unbreakable base line ( to prevent slug)
Now , thats can't stay like this or nobody gonna play killer
up kick on gen
up time on generator ( but reduce penalty if we are many on one gen) so survivor stop spread on gen and do only one.
With one chase killer should see one generator pop and not 3 at begining of the game.
a generator need 90 sec without addon/perk/other survivor and a median chase is 60 sec
maybe up to 120 sec a gen so , we need to group as survivor on generator to be sure we did one during a chase
I don't know if I didn't buff so much survivor, we need PTR to test, but something with more time on gen and less on slug / tunnel would be healthier for the gameSee, balancing is a delicate thing. Players were already in arms when the gen time was uped from 80 to 90s, if gen time where at base 120s the player base would be up the walls and full on rioting.
Same with base DH and Unbreakable. Why must everything be basekit? If a perk is worth having in your kit, then equip it, why dilute the variety and further and cement the meta in concrete, because the survivors can have everything they want without any disadvantages?
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@UndeddJester said:
I now consider WoO a killer boot camp perk, where whenever a survivor runs it, it's actively helping the killer get better at learning the game, as Survivors are somewhat competent all the time. It makes a bad survivor actually somewhat in the same realms as a veteran survivor with non of the work or effort.
It is however also turning the survivors brain to mush. Removes any need to actually think, and allows them to just be a bot that sits on a gen until licked by the terror radius, run the yellow brick road with Lithe and likely be fine... at least until they start going against strong killers that counter that and have literally learned none of the fundamental skills you need to try and play basic mind games or macro... but... thems the breaks I guess.
Personally I'd like to run WoO from time to time or recommend it new players, but it comes with the caveat "if you don't care about actually learning to play DBD, take WoO, it'll help you win more often".
This is a pretty good assessment. I basically never run this perk, but when I do for some reason, I am always amazed and overwhelmed by all the yellow dots and how comfortable it feels to know that a pallet is just over there :D
But luckily I nearly never have room in my builds for it and play 99% without it.
The brainrot is real, though. Every time you have widespread blindness activated (the objective worst statuseffect) you see players losing all sense of direction and entering headless chicken mode. This is the main reason why Ultimate Weapon was so hated, I would bet money on it! :D
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@IAmGilgamesh said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820440#Comment_3820440
It's not a joke when I wrote this. I had survivors giving up, hiding, trolling, working with the killers, not repairing generators, griefing, being toxic, disconnecting. I had killers playing as sweaty as possible day and night. They were either smurfs, lowering MMR by using auto clickers or whatever method they used to bring themselves down a notch in the system, or a high MMR killer filled in the queue because the previous killer left the lobby, or killers using VPN a ping so high you have no chance to escape crazy hits. They slug for 4K, they tunnel and proxy but simultaneously patrol the gens. 3 genning.
No, soloq is miserable and I'm not exaggerating or lying. This is happening and I'm done with playing survivor.
This here is written so heartfelt, that I am just bound to believe you … but dayum, 50 consecutive matches sounds like its literally impossible.
Would you want to team up for a night? I know, in that case we were technically a duo, and that improves chances already, but I would want to see what kind of matches you get ^_-
BTW, I am not a fire survivor, but I can (sometimes) hold my weight for the team.