Akumakaji
Akumakaji
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@CountOfTheFog said:
This has happened 3 times in the past 24 hours.
A Killer will slug someone and they are not using Knock Out and the slugged survivors are not in the void and you can't see the aura of the slugged Survivor!
This is the match I just played below. Does anyone see anything that would hide Ace's aura for literally the entire trial?
He went down at 5 generators and the Killer didn't bother anyone else, I could not see his aura at all! The map was Dead Dawg Saloon.
I was playing as Sable.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/I88RANN8FJK3/20241103-061256.jpg
Yep, that's a cheater, as there is nothing in that ones kit that explains the situation.
That aside, the are a couple of popular parts of slugging builds.
Besides the ever present Knockout, Hex: Third Seal is quite popular. It hides all auras from survivors who are just hit once with a melee attack and unless the totem is cleansed, it stays up all game.
Ultimate Weapon, the erstwhile meta perk that fell from grace quickly after its nerf, is still a potential tool to inflict survivors over a wide radius with the blind condition. It's not as good as in its glory days, but it's still good and no one expects it these days
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@Autharia said:
Right now Gen time is at its longest its ever been so games longer.
Thats only partially right: gen time has been unchanged since 6.1 in june 2022, but games in general aren't longer then in the past, far from it. Due to the environmental pressure, both, killers and survivors, adapted by trimming the fat off their respective playstyles and becoming more lean and efficient in the process.
No one has time anymore to bumble around the map, hunt for bones or open chests or even work on a gen together. Most survivors learned during the 6.1 aftermath and the Overbrine-Eruption meta, that splitting up and pressuring different gens at the same time is king, thus you get this "first chase - 3 gens pop" syndrome.
Thats not "wrong", its actually the best and most efficient way to play, but because both sides had to become hyper efficient in order to thrive and survive, matches have become much, much shorter then in the past and I am pretty sure that thats a fact.
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I don't know how often I proposed my absolute favorite thing that BHVR could possible introduce: a new, general killer perk called "Just Leave!". I would equip this perk on all my killers first perk slot and never take it off, ever again.
- If survivors linger in the exit gate area for 40/30/25s the Entity blocks the exit gates, their aura is shown to the killer and they become exposed.
- The gates stay blocked as long as the survivor lingers in the exit gate area and in a 24m radius around them.
- If the killer downs the survivor in the exit gate area, the survivor can be moried.
- If the survivor leaves via the exit gates before the gates get blocked, they get a "7.000BP Awesome person" score event.
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Today I played 5 games as survivor and escaped two of those, but yeah, the tone of the games has definitely shifted. I tried a full anti tunnel build (DS, OtR, Cameradry, Blast Mine) and it did quite well the one time I got hardcore tunneled, but I have more fun with my time-honed mischief build (Blast Mine, Quick n Quiet, Head On and either Plot Twist or Flashbang).
I think I will experiment a bit with the anti tunnel build and maybe throw in an Unbreakable to counter slugging, but I still had fun and managed to catch up and do all the third event tome challenges, because I couldn't play for one week.
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@Ohyakno said:
It's better as a cute community culture thing.
I understand your reasoning, and I completely appreciate the slug races we have now, but I sometimes wish that we somehow could have a real slugrace, ie were the winner isn't just the one who started crawling the first … but I now see what you might mean, I am already turning something cute competitive … dayum!
Well, in the end my idea would interrupt normal gameplay minimaly and allow a bit more interaction between killers and survivors at the end of the game:
- Interacting with the entry point of the exit area, ie where the doors used to be, while slugged will put you in the start position and make you unable to move till the race starts. You can at any moment cancel this by pressing the interaction button again.
- Once all survivors either moved into the start position or ran out of the trial via the open exit gates, the killer can move to a place next to the exit gate line and start the race by swinging or using their power, so Pigs can roar or Wraith can bing-bong.
- Once the slug-race starts, the EGC timer will be stopped.
- Everyone participating will get a slug-race BP bonus. There will be an achievment for finishing first and for being the referee.
- While crawling, successful skill checks will speed you up while missed ones will slow you down.
- The last slug to reach the finish line will have the exit blocked for 8s during which the killer can mori them or wait out the timer for mercy.
I think this is still within the spirit of the cultural thing, while also were kinda cute if BHVR acknowledged the timehoned tradition of the slug-race.
BTW, we never saw actual statistics about slug-races, did we?
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Have we arrived at a point were we consider 8:30min matches long, though? Yeah, as killer I speedrun a couple of times sub 3min, but this weren't regular matches, the survivors were really feading themselves to me and were stubborn to get that save/finish that gen/pick that survivor up in my face or whatever.
8:30min would mean one hook each 42s, actually faster then that. Thats a pretty breakneck pace, no matter how you cut it.
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@drsoontm said:
Yesterday, first Onryo match since forever: one (or two) teleporters.
Today I get flashed trough the shack wall by a survivor behind a rock. (And I forgot to start OBS)
We really need better reporting.
I think its really counterproductive that you have to jump through that many hoops in order to successfully report someone. And that you have to bring your own outside-software-wrought video evidence and that the game can't keep tap of strange behaviours themselves.
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@manwemanawenuz said:
hey there! my girlfriend had that issue for the last 2-3 days. we've tried everything (things you've mentioned and more) literally nothing solved the issue. i've came across this thread and sent it to her and tried something else it's just seems to fixed the problem. hopefully this fixes yours and anyone else having this problem. here's what i did;
go to C: > Program Filed (x86) > EasyAntiCheat_EOS and right click the EasyAntiCheat_EOS, copy as path
win + R to open Run command
Click the furthest right option (idk english writing of it) paste the path you copied
put a space and paste
"install 0367a3a8ea344f08851d76facf6f66d3"
with quotation marks
wait a bit and launch the game. it fixed for my girlfriend, hope it fixes for you too. Lmk how it goes
Thanks a lot for this advise! I did this and tried something else and after the restart I could start the game! Phew … just in time for the last tome page ;D Thanks so much
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While ragebaiting is a thing that I have seen quite regularly, the especially devious badmouther that made OP write this piece was certainly not your regular rager. While they seemed quite unhinged, they also fully knew that they would be banned in short order and I wouldn't give this individuals too much thought. Maybe they feel shame afterwards, now that their post-rage clarity sets in, maybe they feel that the game isn't made for them; whatever the case, they will probably move on.
Fun note: I hate a tussel with a salty survivor about a week ago and this one left like 7 messages on my steam profile, how my parents never loved me and that I was actually adopted — and today this one returned and repeated the same message :D How long can you carry a rage about a single round of DBD? … well, with 400h they are probably just in ther DBD honeymoon phase and I soured that :P
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832200#Comment_3832200
I had killers who was salty someone loop them for all gens and only got a 1k ( the looper) and wanna tell the looper how they are bad and have no skill and they abuse this and that yadda yadda and they ( killer) won the game umm yeah sure you did while 3 others has escape portraits.
Well, yeah, we got some salty, angy people on both sides of the spectrum, not gonna lie. But right now we were talking about the hatch and how a hatch escape SHOULD be rather irrelevant, as the killer as by all accounts won at this point, but how it sometimes can still feel as a loss, aspecially if the pesky tormenter of the game escapes and rubs it in.
The game really has a way of getting under ones skin, but as I said, best advise is to just harden to this and take it with a chuckle and move on - killer got their 3K and that hatch was just luck, no skill involved whatsoever.
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@mecca said:
I think most people missed the point and immediately engaged defense mode for their power role fantasy role.
OP is stating survivor role is unplayable and unfun in a hostile manner. Its understandable.
And if OP did so in a non-hostile, non-aggressive manner, people would have been more forthcomming. Its not rocket science, really: be not a douche, don't lash out at innocent bystanders, get threaded respectfully in return. Other as in the game this works on the forum and in most encounters in real life, I vouche for it.
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@ErebusSurge said:
nice to see all the bad killers popping up here to say they have to slug because they can’t get a 4 k any other way..
they also cry about gen rush - killers are very fragile.
I probably play killer 60% of the time and get a 4k 95% of the time. No slugging no tunneling. It’s not hard the game is designed for me to do it with ease.I play survivor 40% of the time and escape around 5% its hard because the game is designed to not let me out.
There is a huge imbalance in the roles and it’s undeniable. It’s about time people stopped with the fragility and ego and got together and said look we don’t want a death simulator we want a game that’s fun for both sides. Give survivors a chance and make killers work a little bit for their kills.
perma wall hacks and speed boosts and super human reach and teleport all combined are awful for the simulator.
I wonder how you read that into any of the comments here, least of all mine with a big explaination and several possbile solution.
This leaves only the most obvious option: you don't care to discuss at all, but just want to meddle and accuse the other side, no matter the arguement. Thats not cool, at least try to discuss.
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@TicTac said:
Dont play for the 4k. You realized that skill isnt really involved in the hatch/gate-game, so dont bother wasting your lifetime.
This is very solid advise and so true, BUT in the case of bully SWFs you can bet that the one who escapes will rub it in in the most devious and painful way, claiming that the killer didn't win at all, because they escaped yadda yadda yadda.
Most of the time I can just ignore such non-sense, but not gonna lie, some games that survivor made your life SO hard and got under your skin and seeing them escape and mock you can be pretty painful, even if you are mostly levelheaded, BUT in the end, the best is just to try to ignore it and don't let it affect you.
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Should gen-rushing also be punished?
"No, that would be ludicrous, gens are literally survivors only objective. Don't be silly, lad."
So whats the killers objective then?
"To kill survivors, duh. … oh… damn"
Jokes aside, I acknowledge that dunneling and slugging are unfun playstyles AND are getting out of hand, but they are more or less a symptom of an underlying problem and not a cause.
During the last couple of years both sides went through a lot of changes, and each change brought a phase of "fufufu stop crying, just git gut" with them - and being backed against the walls, both sides did: survivors ditched playful builds and fooling around and favored gen efficiency, splitting up and pressuring multiple gens at once, leading to the "3 gens pop first chase"-syndrom, while killers first concentrated on gen defense, which was subsequently nerfed, and so learned to prioritise to make the game 3v1 ASAP, or lose hard (in most cases).
Also, the increased hook timer weakend hooks A LOT. Coupled with the ever present danger of a flashlight/bang safe out of nowhere or a pallet dunked over their head of of nowhere (again), many killers opt to no hooking again, showcasing how strong this tactics has been since the games inception, since it was basically never changed. But it only recently got a problem, with killers all other avenues being blocked or made that much harder.
Now, once a certain portion of the population learns such a tactic and gets it down, its impossible to make them "unlearn" this. You can pull out the whip and FORCE them to play by your rules, but this will always meet with repercussions and bad moot, which isn't ideal.
People always say that the whip works better then the carrot, but I feel that we have never made spreading hooks and going for late kills attractive in any way, and THIS is the point where we should try to change something.
If the killer gets a suitable reward for spreading hooks, while keeping everyone alive, be it BP multilpyers, but also basekit gen regression or gen-speed debuffs or gen-blocks etc. and if all this bonuses would go away with the first killed survivor, then we would get the following situation: the games would get more tense, as more and more survivors get hooked, repairing gens gets harder and harder the longer the trial takes place, but there is always the hope and possibility of managing to repairing them all, as the killer can't risk killing off a survivor early, or they would lose all their defenses. Both sides players would stay in the game and we would get more interesting matches instead of matches where on side steamrolls the other.
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Here is my hot take: limiting SWFs is NOT punishing players to play together with their friends, its NOT punishing soloQ players for playing alone, because the SWFs theoretical powerlevel sets the tone of the game.
Other games to this all the time and its not big deal, in Overwatch you can't just take 5 tanks in your team and drag the game along, there are limiters set up. And such limiters would also help DBD a lot, in order to tone down the powerlevel of SWFs. BTW, make no mistakes, if we reign in SWFs powerlevel by doing so, there should also be a new set of probably general nerfs for killers, as you can't have one without the other.
Right now we have around 60% general kill rates with the power of SWFs in mind, so this number would be wildly surpassed if you don't buff and nerf in moderation on both sides.
One simple fix that I think is overdue is the one, that I have proposed quite so often: limit the perks to one instance per premade SWF, but don't limit soloQ players in any way. This would help imensely to tone down the more outrageous games where a killer feels like they can just not win: 4 DH to work through, 4 UB, 4 Head On, a perk that is harmless enough, but in the hands of a coordinated SWF with the right map can be hellish.
In my own regular dua and tripple SWF we all play radically different, yeah, there are a couple of duplicate perks, but nothing we couldn't iron out, and then everyone would have their own niche and playstyle. Maybe Teamwork perks could be an exeption, which could be made great for the first time by taking into account how they can now be taken by all teammates etc.
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So thats it? I should just accept that I can't play DBD anymore, because EAC won't stop bugging out?
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Medusa could be the next legendary skin for Dracula lmao.
Vampira = Medusa
Wolf Form = cute snake form we see here
Bat Form = swarm of snakes with tiny wings.
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@TheArbiter said:
Yeah her ultra rares aren't great, but to say they are the worst? I don't know about that, i think Pyramid head still has the worst ultra rares
I mean Pyramid Head, and I have not used his Iris ONCE! They are that bad.
One lets you become Undetectable when you step on your own gunk, but its not working while you are throwing out a trail. The other lets you see the aura of all damned survivors when one gets rescued from a cage. This especially is so lackluster, its hard to imagine how they came up with the idea.
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These are super cool! I don't know if we need an Anaconda chapter, but dayum, that stunned sneeek after Dwight slammed that pallet sold me on the idea.
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You showed that you were a cool guy. You don't like to kill cool guys and gals T_T
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@drsoontm said:
I presume you have checked your system for viruses?
I/O errors? (check disk)
RAM errors? (https://memtest.org , not the other one)
And you don't have one of the possibly broken 13 or 14th gen Intel cpu?
Thanks for the tips. I/O seems to be okay, I will need to dig for an usb stick around here, to do the mem test.
My CPU is a AMD Ryzen 5 2600X Six-Core Processor 3.60 GHz and I am using a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 … all middle of the road or quite a bit past their prime, but EAC is really blocking me completely these week.
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Not a bad idea, I guess. If a system like this were introduced, it could help to defang or buff outliers quickly and see what sticks. MMO Arena fighters like League of Legends does this all the time: nerf the items that are most used, buff the items that are least used and see how things turn out the next cycle.
The attributes didn't have to be set in stone but could change weekly or every two weeks, but such a system comes with the problem that certain killers might be deemed unviable for that period and if someone mains that killer it might be a bit rough on them for no reason at all.
There could also be an event where the killer gets a secret attribute or two (one good one bad), heck maybe even the survivors too, why not?
Another option that I thought about could be this: right now all killers have a certain attack speed and vault speed and recovery time. Maybe the killer could have +15% and -15% to this values just to differentiate them a bit more? Some killers vault faster and have a little stun resistance, but their hit recovery is not so good etc.
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@Nazzzak said:
This is something you need to take up with a therapist. That sort of anger generally goes deeper than just gaming frustrations.
I am allways for talking stuff out, but I would be reluctant to do too much armchair psychology here, some peeps just got that rage in them and DBD is very good at pushing the trigger buttons. I am pretty chill and levelheaded, but sometimes DBD gets me so extremely riled up that I cuss at the screen! But all urges to throw something at it or punsh my equipment fade a splitsecond after they form, because I think that would be just dumb.
But of course, if OP has other anger issues that creep up in other aspects of their live, then it might be good advice to think about therapie.
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Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and now Thursday. Every time I tried playing DBD I get the same set of error, ie after the splashscreen finished loading, the game is shown as "running" but nothing happens (I waited for up to 15min in one case). If I try to do anything with my explorer after I tried to load the game, the explorer crashes and I have to do a hard reset.
When I try to stop DBD from the steam app, after its running, this doesn't prevent the explorer from crashing, but it gives me an "Untrusted File" error, each time with something different. I had "wlanapi.dll" and "nvapi64.dll", both system files that somehow got flagged. I did a clean install of DBD, but nothing changes.
When I try to open the EAC setup, even as admin, it just flashes for a second and then closes itself.
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@PortaI_2 said:
As someone with over 127 days played in this game, never have I been this annoyed with Solo Que.
I play solo que Survivor by far the most and honestly its gotten pretty annoying bad. So bad so the first time in 6 years I dont care to have all survivors and killers.
Mind you I was red rank Survivor in my first two years. Don't know if just sweats play these days. But DBD is just done for me. From the frequent tunneling (thanks in large part to the 3-4 second DS nerf) To the Pay to Win Killers. Solo Surviv Que is just bad.
Just curious, which killers are pay to win? I own all the killers and maybe I need to reevaluate some of them and play them more.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831199#Comment_3831199
So are matches wherein the killer lets any number of survivors escape.
Indeed. So all this should give us an accurate representation of who actually escapes and who doesn't, even though a couple of outliers exist here and there.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Say it with me:
Matches. With. A. Disconnect. Aren't. Included. In. Kill. Rates.
Say it with me:
Matches. With. First. Downed. Survivor. Killing. Themselves. On. Hook. Are. Included. In. Kill. Rates.
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Here we go: BBQ, Nowhere to Hide, Franklins, Weave Attunement.
Three aura reading perks and Franklins = pure evil.
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@moriwitchy said:
SUMMARY OF THE ISSUE:
I play nurse frequently and nearly every match I encounter at least one instance of my blinks not going through certain objects/structures despite charging them properly. Often, this occurs at random, as some games this does not happen with the same objects/structures. I noticed this issue is happens more frequently on boulders, irregular objects, lockers, and on the RPD map. At times, I am not able to blink through the object at all; other times, my blink gets "swallowed" and my blink range becomes shorter than it should be.
PLATFORM:
PC
STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW THE ISSUE OCCURED:
I play nurse regularly and try to blink to catch up to a survivor. Despite charging my blink sufficiently, I sometimes cannot blink through a certain object/structure to reach them or my blink range becomes stifled ("swallowed") by the object I try to pass through.
VIDEO:
PLAYER LOGS:
- Player logs are required from PC players only.
This might be a case with certain structures. Nurse is a strangely coded killer. Even with enough blink distance, there are certain objects or landmarks that you can't blink past, hills for example. With RPD especially, there are certain parts in the outside area that you can't enter, and thus can't blink into. On the mine map there is a part of the outer wall that seperates the two main areas, and because thats flagged as "outside" you can't blink through it, even though its just like 0,4m thick.
Some while back there was a big bug that made Nurse blink INTO hills and she would be stuck there for the whole game, but that should be resolved a long time ago.
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So can we get an acknowledgment of this?
I frankly can't play at the moment, and thats pretty sad with the 3rd event page dropping today.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830959#Comment_3830959
I'll give you my thoughts if you don't mind. Honestly, I disagree with what you're saying but definitely believe you when you say what you're experiencing. However, I disagree with the reason why you're experiencing what you are as I don't experience what you're describing when I'm playing Killer.
My opinion is that one of two factors are more at play here. The first is the least likely in my opinion of the two which is your MMR has been inflated by tunnelling which has put you in an MMR category you can't handle without tunnelling and you don't want to take enough losses to drop back down. That's an understandable position as it's what I've always stated is the long term detrimental effect on Killers of tunnelling. Having to take dozens of losses in a row to move your MMR down in not fun to put it mildly.
However, you have been playing for a long time and are an intelligent person so I think you probably have a good grasp on both micro and macro gameplay. What's more likely, once again my opinion, is that you're at the soft cap but not significantly above it. People underestimate how quickly your chances of success drop the higher in MMR your opponent is. DbD reportedly matches people at 200 points higher or lower than their opponents. That gives roughly a 10% chance of winning for the lower rated opponent. Move that to 300 points and that's roughly a 1% chance of winning. If the 1600 MMR soft cap threshold is true then somebody at 1600 could be placed against a 2300 or 2400 MMR opponent. At that point, the 1600 MMR player might as well make themselves some lunch as the outcome is pretty much predetermined and the 1600 MMR player is shark chum in that instance; they lost at the ready button.
That's what I believe is more likely to be the case. As I've never made a practice of tunnelling I've never run into what you're describing on anything close to a consistent basis which is also the point of MMR; if you don't tunnel the system should be matching you at a level you don't need to tunnel at.
If you are in the situation I believe you're at then I do have a lot of sympathy as it's a terrible place to be. However, BHVR also has to consider the fun of both sides and being tunnelled is a very negative gameplay experience. That's part of the reason why I bring up changing the mechanics to favour hooking. I don't have an issue when playing Survivor with losing more than I escape and neither do many other players. The issue is that if I'm going to be more likely to lose at least make it fun. With the prevalence of tunnelling right now, the Survivor role now has a higher chance of losing than escaping and the games aren't fun a lot of the time which is unhealthy for the game.
Thanks for the long response, I appreciate a person giving so much thought to an answer :)
I think that you are partly right at what you said about the MMR system, ie that being matched with someone vastly out of your reach can plummed your chance of winning, but I don't think that the tunneling I did is soley responsible for me getting matched against tough players. I consider myself a pretty good killer player, definitely not the best and still with some holes in my knowledge and mechanical skill, but I am pretty good most of the time and can stand my ground against a lot of the tougher teams, safe for the very best and well coordinated SWF teams.
Just like you explained how many people underestimate the influence of ELO at higher rated games, I think many players also vastly underestimate how the game changes gears and plays differently from what they might call a more casual match. From my time on the forums it seems that not many killers get too many survivors who basically hog all the gen time they can get, like literally, even in chase when I reverse the direction of a loop, they might nap 0.5s of gen time out of it and were I to abondon that chase, they would be on that gen before my back is even turned. Against such efficiency you can't spread hooks - you might not need to hard tunnel one survivor either, but you most certainly must ping pong between two survivers and drive up those hooks and hook stages on them and only take opportunity hits against the others.
There is one thing were most SWFs are very predictable: they want the 4E or at least 3E, so with tunneling you will often provoke even the gen jockeys to jump in for a protection hit, and this can give you breathing room if you strike those down. But you need to slam down hard on that team to eek out a win and must be at your a-game. If tunneling is made too weak basekit, there is literally no way how a killer in high MMR can pressure survivors to come and help their team mates. At least in the past you could listen in keenly and guess that OtR was in play, but now with Iron Will back to 100% its a coin toss and I think that a visual cue that OtR is there might not be unreasonable - in the best case scenario the perk would do what its supposed to do and let that killer seak other prey.
When I play survivor, I notice that my regular duo mate often fails to see the finer points from the killers POV: yeah, that guy is now tunneling at 4 gens, but 3 of this four gens were also worked on solo and are between 60-80% … thats a situation where I might also start to get mean, even though when from the surface it looks pretty chill. The efficiency race of the last 2 years has advanced both roles game in a way that they have to start hard and fast ASAP, least they get backed against the wall in an unwinnable situation, so I thank the best way to solve the issue would be to look at where the game was 3 years ago and what made games feel so differently then.
When I started DBD in 2021 most games weren't played at such a breakneck speed like they are today: I would get into a chase, down and hook them, while one gen got completed. Chases another survivor, downed and hooked them, while a second gen got completed. Now with the playing field smaller, the game heated up and things got more interesting.
But today that doesn't happen anymore, because the 6.1 aftermath breed it into survivors that they should split up with the sole exeption if they can tackle the mid-gen first. So now when the first chase is over, either 2-3 gens pop or the main gen pops mid-chase - both situation that already back me against the wall and make things uncomfortbale.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830998#Comment_3830998
There are thousands of multiplayer games that group could have played and yet they decide to boot up DbD and do literally nothing in order to spite the killer. No gameplay or anything. This game attracts the saddest of players, I swear.
For real! Not trying to defend other mean gameplay styles, like killers who let everyone bleed out for no reason at all etc., but that Blendette squad was pretty hardcore unique. Luckily I never encountered anything like that ever again, and with the way Distortion now works, such a game would be over pretty quickly, but STILL! Some playstyles are just beyond your normal pettiness ^^"
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830936#Comment_3830936
Things get spicey, though, if the whole team is dedicating its whole build to a one trick and play accordingly, this is when things turn really ugly and unfun. 4 DH, 4 UB, 4 Head On and the killer will spend most of the game doing nothing but being laughed at by the whole team. Most of the time they don't even touch gens and do their utmost to make the killers experience as miserable as possible
I loved to play against those groups as Old Freddy.
It was very hard to mess with a killer that you cannot see and cannot bodyblock.
It can be fun, if you are lucky and play the killer that kinda counters this, or if their tactics are a bit lacking and you can still get a upper hand, but in general these SWFs goal is most of the time to have fun on the back of the killer and they don't care if they all die in the process.
I once played Amandas Letter Pig against four Distortion and Urban Evading Blendettes on Dead Dogs — the game was KINDA fun, because it was a big cat and mouse game and I sometimes saw the glimbs of a Blendette while crouching and I thus could slowly, slowly whittle them down, but with any other killer this would have been a miserable experience. They later claimed in the post game chat that they usually try to make killers DC with this tactic, while just hanging out and talking.
BTW, this solidified my stance on Pig needing Wallhacks while crouched as base kit :D Just be bold and brave once, BHVR, and try it out! Would make her the coolest and most fun stealth killer by a long shot.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830903#Comment_3830903
Oh yeah, I absolutely understand your point, and it's completely valid… but this disparity is basically my argument… I didn't really wrap it up to a point, and left it to hang so my bad, but to try and clear that up:
- If you balance the game so that soloQ can win 50% of the time vs. the killer, then you put the Killer at a significant disadvantage vs. an organised SWF, and a slight disadvantage vs. a normal SWF.
- If you balance the game so that the killer can win 50% of the time vs. an organised SWF, then you put the survivors at a significant disadvantage for soloQ, and a slight disadvantage for a normal SWF.
- If you go halfway in the middle, and you balance so the killer can with 50% vs. an normal SWF, then the killer has a slight disadvantage vs. organised SWF, and soloQ has a slight disadvantage vs. killer.
However the problem of what I'm describing in these 3 scenarios is we're assuming the killer is playing optimally each time… and this is where we get into philosophical and subjective terms and what is best for the game. A truly balanced game would be that the most optimal way to play both sides would result in an equal chance to win… this is by definition balanced… Note: I'm deliberately avoiding individual killer strengths, since this muddies everything.
However as you correctly point out, this is not the average game experience in DBD; it is an asym, so the respective sides have very different set of skills. Both need to perform respectively well in chase, but the survivors need teamwork/coordination and map/tile awareness skills, and the killer needs greater predication/time management and objective/area control skills.
I don't think anyone would disagree is much harder for a survivor team to coordinate and bring their full strength to bear compared to the killer… one player can completely snowball the game out of the survivors hands, and it is why we have such a difference in killer being easier to learn to begin with. Thus the way it goes is we have to deliberately gimp the killer somewhat to allow survivors a reasonable chance at success despite them not playing optimally, and what we need to debate, is how far should the killer fall so that everyone is relatively happy?
After all, if at the very top end of play the killer is defaulted to being weaker than the survivor, where the only way to win is if survivors make mistakes…. what incentive is there to play killer? We could ask this same question for survivor the other way… but the incentive for survivor is that, if you play well enough with no mistakes, you should win.
Option 1 is simply not tenable, we can't have a game where the killer is so much weaker than the survivor team that 2 good players with a disorganised pair of yahoos can realistically go even. What incentive is there to play killer is you're at such a significant disadvantage where you playing at a consistent level can be beaten by mix of performances from soloQ. If SWF didn't exist, this would be perfect… but unfortunately SWF must exist, so this is off the table.
Option 2 is the one where both sides are played optimally and both sides have an even chance to win…. but as you point out, most players can't play optimally on survivor side, so killers win the game most of the time… and SoloQ gets very much buried more often than not… This is also not good.
Option 3 is where I believe the game currently sits, and is where it kinda must sit… and it depends how much value you think a SWF team has. Based on the stats from yesteryear, a SWF swings the game by about 9% kill rate. (Escape rates of 39%, 40%, 43% and 48% for solo, 2, 3 and 4 man teams respectively if my memory serves).
The questions at the end of all of this is:
- How often should an organised 4 man SWF team beat the killer? 50%? 55%? 60%?
- How often should a good solo player beat the killer? 40%? 45%? 50%?
- Should we be doing more to limit the SWF advantage?
- Is it even possible to limit that advantage, and how much by? (I think so, but it'll never go completely)
My argument isn't necessarily that I disagree with SoloQ having it tough… it's more how do you not make it tough with SWF making the chaos of solo Q not a thing?
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I don't think anyone would disagree is much harder for a survivor team to coordinate and bring their full strength to bear compared to the killer… one player can completely snowball the game out of the survivors hands, and it is why we have such a difference in killer being easier to learn to begin with. Thus the way it goes is we have to deliberately gimp the killer somewhat to allow survivors a reasonable chance at success despite them not playing optimally, and what we need to debate, is how far should the killer fall so that everyone is relatively happy?
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Just a small thought trown in here: the game is already doing that a LOT by the way killers have a bigger hitbox then survivors during looping, the way killers can be fat shamed at narrow paths, the killers POV is so high above ground and, before the POV slider, was so narrow that survivors could reasonably expect corner techs and crouch techs to be effective.
Also, many killers power, who are somewhat the masters of their respective craft, are very, very clunky and programmed with artificial limiters, in order to allow counterplay, like Huntresses windup or Dracula needing 0,9s to open or close his hand between fireballs, or Pyramid Head needing 1,0s to lower and raise his sword from the ground, or how Wesker just BARELY can catch up in SOME loops to survivors after vaulting a pallet, due to his tentacle slithering back into his arm.
If you at any point play a solo game or a co-op shooter against zombies or anything like this, you feel it especially grating of how DBD holds the killer artificially back, so that survivors can dance around them and feel like the "clever and agile" role. It is probably needed for this game, but it also severely limits players skill expression and lowers the floor by limiting viable options.
I feel if Killers got any more limiters, they would feel so clunky to play that it would severely encroach on the joy of playing that role and lead to even more bitter killer players ^_-
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@ErebusSurge said:
it isn’t. Never will be, never has been. Next question.
oh and the guy who said most survivors are mediocre, so are most killers, different is mediocre killers have an abundance of things to cover up their lack of ability. Mediocre survivors do not. In fact they are actively punished for itDude, you are so full of vitriol and don't give the other side even one second of consideration.
I humbly asked to to take 3min out of your life and read the long commend I typed up just above yours, which gives a pretty comprehensive look of why we arrived at the game we have now. I would be interested in your thoughts on the matter, if you took a step back and looked at the big picture.
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@TotemsCleanser said:
I was there when this game was survivor sided around 2020 (and before that it was even MORE survivor sided to be honest). It no longer is. I believe it is less killer sided than it used to be survivor sided, but it still is killer sided now. And to an extent I believe that's fair because the game was survivor sided for /years/ so it's fair that the scale has tilted the other side for a bit. Survivors are paying reparations right now (?).
I was a killer main during that time, when survivors where at their strongest and at times I asked myself why I was subjecting myself to this selfimposed torture? DH for distance, 4 DS to eat through, easy 3-4 fast selfheals out of any medkit, sometimes even midchase on the other side of a dropped pallet — it was truely madness! And still people defended DH all the time, claiming that it was a fair and fun perk and killers were just bad and had skill issues for not anticipating it and for struggling and that "good killers can still get 12 hooks without camping or tunneling". In this regard the game was always the same.
Then 6.1 happened and pulled a GIANT rug from under the collective survivor population, exposing how many were huddling under their multi-layered safety net of second chances. The first 2 or even 3 days of post-6.1 were like the shock and awe after a big catastrophy: everyone was running around in a stupor, it felt like everyone had forgotten how to loop (because most never learned how to do so in the first place), no one touched gens (beause the +10s meant that it was pointless to even start) and the game felt like a true "all you can kill" buffet, with survivors offering basically no resistance at all and the killers abusing this mercilessly, tunneling and camping and getting 4Ks at 4 or 5 gens every game, playing with 4 regression perks and never taking them off.
I remember how bad I felt during some of this games with the game being unsalvagable even if I let the same survivor multiple times go instead of killing them off. I tried my hand at survivor myself at that time and I got killed so many times after I personally finished 3 or even 4 gens from start to finish. It was really a drunken stupor that kept survivors from even touching gens, it seemed.
But once this shock and stupor faded, most survivors got their stuff together and stroke back with a vengeance! Backed against the wall, most survivors learned "okay, I can't fool around all game like before, I need to contribute" and "working on this gen together feels nice - but I think I will leave you and work on that gen over there … no, not the next, I will skip that and work on the next after that one, as to not 3-gens ourselfes".
This time lead to the great efficiency boom on the survivor side: splitting up, being somewhat mindful of what gens you were tackling, prioritising main building gens, and at least working on gens - all of this became a staple and all of the sudden the survivors were back in action and gens started flying off the shelves as if they were on clearance.
The Eruption and Overbrine meta gave the thing a small bumb, but after that was cleared, along with timewasters such as CoH, the survivor population as a whole was as lean and mean as they get and knew that they had one objective and one objective only: slam gens! Gens before friends!
Somewhere along this times the killer population, while undoubtedly stronger then before, feld the change on the wind and 4 regression and camping and tunneling became more and more prevalent. Over the course of the following year most regression perks were nerfed more and more into being unviable, Eruption get hit so hard that I don't even know what it does anymore (just kidding, but I deam it unviable), and camping got shut down with the somewhat effective somewhat failed Anti Facecamping Feature. It does what it said on the lid, ie proper facecamping was impossible now, but real camping was still possible, if the killer was a little bit mindful of their actions.
Still, with camping being shut down and "3 gens pop first chase" killers were funneled down the only road that offered success and redemtion from the constant harressment of the survivors on all sides: Tunneling. The strengthening of OtR and later DS, helped a little bit, but the loss of Haemorraging and Mangled full power also also breed it into killers that to stand a chance, they got to turn this game 3v1 FAST and HARD!
So, this is where we are standing now: both sides experienced tremendous ups and downs and both sides tools of trade have been changed and taken away and reluctantly been given back over the last two years, that all the fat is trimmed off and both sides are as lean and as mean killing/genrepairing-surviving machines, as they have ever been - and they need to against the opposition they expect. So when MMR throws them a "casual" of either side, they just eat them for breakfast and ask for more. And thats why DBD can never be a party game anymore, it totally and irrevocably lost its playfulness and innocence and you can't convince me otherwise. There might be short glimps of its former party DNA here and there, when both sides meme around during events, but for the most, the game has been cooked down to be as efficient in its respective roles as it has ever been.
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In that video Mish explains how the Unknowns power work and how it can be countered as a survivor. "Catching Bubbles" wasn't a big part of it in any way, she just explained how you get hindered for 3s if you are directly hit, but not within the bubbles blast radius.
This part of the Unknowns power ist still in effect and it never went away, but its not something that you can purposefully trigger yourself, it will just happen sometimes when you try to dodge.
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The thing is that soloQ suffers, because of how strong and efficient SWFs can be. There are still neigh infinites in the game, and if a group is dedicated and efficient enough, one long chase along these lines will hand them the win on a silver plater, especially if even one early flashlight/flashbang save robs the killer of all their momentum.
Most often with SWFs their best looper tries to get the killers attention early, either by running straight at the killer and flashing their beamer (easy to spot) or by sneaking/slow walking straight through the middle of the map, looking around and acting surprised when they run into the killer (tough to spot). Best counter is to just ignore this players, as getting caught up early in a pointless and unwinnable chase around mainbuilding or shack is indeed a skill issue.
Things get spicey, though, if the whole team is dedicating its whole build to a one trick and play accordingly, this is when things turn really ugly and unfun. 4 DH, 4 UB, 4 Head On and the killer will spend most of the game doing nothing but being laughed at by the whole team. Most of the time they don't even touch gens and do their utmost to make the killers experience as miserable as possible, at other times one or two will do gens in the background and only join in once they 99% the last three gens. Some others have brutal builds that slam out 5 gens in 4 minutes and where the killer has no real chance to even get the foot on the ground - while dedication to the game should come with some rewards, this are the games that just feel unfair and unwinnable and eventually you killer might take their pent up frustration to the next round of soloQ that cross their path.
I think of two way of how this could be remedied, without hurting soloQ or punishing players for playing together, with the first one being super easy to implement, and the second probably takes a new game enginge, for all we know ^^":
- Don't allow multiple instances of the same perk in premade groups. Done. Simple as that. No more 4DH in one game, no more brutal 4 Head On ring around the rosy bullying, while everyone can still find their own way of being useful. In my regular duo and tripple SWF we all play vastly differently and hardly ever have the same concept in mind. Yeah, some perks double up, but its no big deal and we could easily coordinate that away. It would help immensely, though, if we could see the others builds for this. As a bonus, this easily makes soloQ a little stronger by not implementing their own builds, so four soloQ players getting matched could all have the same strong perks.
- Give the game a game director AI like so many hord style shooters have and let it act as sort of a comeback mechanic. Survivors are doing too good? The Entity eats a couple of pallets. The surivors are getting tabled? Some pallets could respawn, the survivor on hook could teleport away from the camping killer and into a more favorable spot or a hurt survivor huddling in a dark corner could spot a mysterious medkit just a couple of feet away. The game is designed in a way snowballing is encouraged and while comebacks are sometimes possible, its pretty rare, so this would lead to more fun and interesting games that are on the edge, instead of just letting the winning side stomp the other hard. I understand the sentiment of "why should I get punished for playing well" or even more likely "why should THEY be rewarded for playing bad?", but in the end everyone would profit from a game director.
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I also got some big problems with EAC. For two days now I can't play because of this Easy Anti Cheat problem. The game starts loading, but once the small initial loading window disappears (the one showcasing the new rifts Soma and Dracula skins), everything in the background crashes, especially the explorer, giving me no option but to hard reset. Any other games still play normally and no other function seems to be affected. I ran two windows repair programs that got recommended, and they indeed fixed something with a WLAN.dll so I no longer got a popup window claiming their was an untrusted file, but DBD itself still doesn't load and crashes my explorer. Because of this there are no screenshots or crash reports, the PC is just frozen HARD.
Easy Anti Cheat setup also won't work, it just flashes once and then instantly closes itself.
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For two days now I can't play because of this Easy Anti Cheat problem. The game starts loading, but once the small initial loading window disappears (the one showcasing the new rifts Soma and Dracula skins), everything in the background crashes, especially the explorer, giving me no option but to hard reset. Any other games still play normally and no other function seems to be affected.
Easy Anti Cheat setup also won't work, it just flashes once and then instantly closes itself.
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Completely randomly I got this error. I did some DISM and SFC Scan, which apparently repaired the file, but ever since then the game will not stop loading and freeze up and crash my windows client. Discord will still run in the background while any desktop or explorer activity completely freezes. Can't tap out or shut down the PC in that case and had to hard reset. The problem would persist on each startup of DBD and was reproducable, though the "Untrsted system file" didn't resume since I did the DISM/SFC scans.
Other games and apps load and play flawlessly.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830275#Comment_3830275
A statement you can't even begin to prove.
Such blatant biased statements are not worth the energy to hit enter.
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Most survivors burn them on the first gen they see in order to raze it to the ground ASAP and that surely feels good, but the thing is that the first 2 gens are pretty safe, regardless what you do. Sure, the killer could patrol in that area and shoo you away, but not from all 7 gens and 2-3 will pop without much resistance, so why waste your toolbox on those?
The only instance where you could and should do this is with the center/main building gen, if the killer is chasing somewhere else and you have a chance to sneakily take out that gen in one fast, fell swoop.
In nearly all other cases its better to keep your toolbox for the last two gens, because this will be the more dagerous and contested ones. Every second you can spend on this final gens with a juicy toolbox will be extra rewarding. Of course, keeping the toolbox comes with the risk of getting hit with Franklins or even dying, but in that case your commitment to an early gen probably didn't have that much of an impact either and you dying now is impacting the game more severe then the difference between using that toolbox on the first gen or not at all. So show some box-discipline.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
About MMR. I stumbled upon this video, that a certain Choi made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ie4ND-HLp8
I have a feeling that it will help understand why having a large bracket in the upper MMR range is truly a bad design.
I saw that video and yeah, thats a big culprit of why the matches can range to wildly in quality and sweat. If the killer faced three seal teams in a row they might not backpaddel when the MMR throws them a group of whelps that just barely made it into 1401.
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@Tostapane said:
unbreakable and ds (with increased stun and can be used 2 times) for survivors and noed (without totem) and rancor for killers… since the devs are making all the strongest killer strategies weak (and others like hit and run were nerfed so much that are almost useless) because they are unfunny for the survivors they should get some compensations at least in the end game (mind you, at this point for implementing this change you should sod off statistics, which isn't a bad thing unlike people used to think)… in that way people won't be mercilessly tunneled out of the game from the start and can play without worrying too much (and to avoid possible exploits survivors should lost their hitbox for 15 seconds once they were unhooked, in that way they can't exploit bodyblocks with something that was supposed to protect you in case of hard tunneling)
You know what? When I started reading your comment, I wanted to dismiss it after I read UB and DS … and then it got even better with 2 usages - what would be the point to use the real perk then? 7s stun? But then I read on and your train of thought any too bad, actually. Force killers to mostly play "traditionally" and "fair", OR ELSE! But then turn their lethality up during endgame and let them rip. Its basically making both sides OP, while still somehow maintaining a balance between the two and I would actually love to see a PTB or time limited mode with this rules enabled.
The big concern would be, as always, SWFs. With so much basekit safetynets, nothing is hindering two dedicated survivors with flashlights, DH and OrR to try to harrass the killer all game, while the others pump gens. The killers lethality during endgame won't be deminished, due to the basekit NOED, but it would still be quite the slog, especially with everyone running Hope.
And on the killers side, endgame builds would skyrocket! Terminus, Remember Me, No Way Out, Bloodwarden would all go up in value and in the end everyone would complain about genrushing, toxic bodyblocking and insufferable endgame builds ^_-
Still, this could be really fun to try out.
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Everytime something is made basekit it takes away perk variety and cements the current meta more and more. If you think "maaaaan, I wish I had this and that perk, they should make it meta" then find room for it in your loadout. If a perk is worth wanting as basekit, its probably worth selecting as one of your perks. People are so hung up on meta perks and pretty fast to call out something as "utterly worthless" or "borderline throwing" if you chose it, and that is just the utterly wrong mindset.
The internets drive to mathematically perfect everything leads to the so common meta-brain-rot: most people can only follow the meta and can't fathom looking left or right and are obsessed with perk-value, perk-value, perk-value. A lot of the off-meta perks can be fun and yield success, even though if they aren't as consistant of old DH or Iron Will. So in general I would not make anything basekit, as players should not always get their cake and eat it too, if they want a certain effect, let them take off one of their precious meta perks, that they apparently can't live without, of their build.
That being said, there is ONE instance where I think a basekit effect would be benficial to the game, and its a killer perk: BBQ
Old BBQ was equipped univerally by practically every killer for its BP bonus effect. If you don't know, old BBQ gave a counter for the first hook on every survivor, and every counter gave +25% BP multiplier. Many killers made it their metagame to hunt all four survivors and get a full set and it was a valid incentive to spread hooks. BBQs other effect, ie showing the auras of survivors 36m away, was welcomed, but not the main pull for most killers, BUT it showed them opportunities that they might not have expected and peeled them off the hook and send them to the other side of the map. Many survivors bemoaned the constant aura reading the perk provided and how "it was in basically every build! Buhuhu!", but failed to see what valuable function the perk served.
Now hear me out: give the killers both as basekit.
- +25% BP bonus for each uniquely hooked survivors, but only increase the counter as long as all survivors are still alive. So if the killer wants to complete the set and get the full +100% BP bonus, they can't tunnel someone out asap.
- Upon hooking show the killer the aura of one of the yet unhooked survivors, thus hopefully peeling them away from the hook and sending them to fun little chase.
BBQ would then be at a slightly better spot then Borrowed Time: equipping it would show the killer all survivors auras (beyond a certain distance) and many killers would happily live without its full effect, but some killers, like Huntress, Artist or Dredge could still benefit from its full effect, so it wouldn't be a dead perk. For real, when was the last time you saw an honest to god Borrowed Time in the game? The basekit effect is SO good, that no one needs BT anymore and opts to equip a perk that offers a unique other effect. I equipped BT a couple of times when I ran a savior build, and its fun to mess with killers who counted to 10 and still got hit by the endurance effect, but its actually more beneficial to chose any other perk.
Thats my two bloodpoints in this matter.
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@Gregor_Samsa said:
no i did not, i need to talk to behaviour but they are hard to reach
Have you opened a thread over in the bug section? They are actually pretty fast to acknowledge something over there.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830118#Comment_3830118
I thought clown was your boy🤔
Nah. I play Clown every now and then, but not that much. I wish I could play his yellow bottles as good as Arinad, but I am not ready to invest that much painful hours into Clown … and reading that book :D
But I like Clown enough and reconed that not too many would use his profile pic as their avatar, thats why I picked that one. But Pyramid Head is my one and only main, he is just too good and I am pretty deadly with him.
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@SoGo said:
Why would someone playing Pyramid Head even hook someone who's Tormented instead of caging them?
The cage sends the person straight to the other side of the map, as far away from Pyramid Head as possible. There could be a gen over there that the killer knows is pressured right now, that gen could even be next to the exit gate, giving them basically a free escape. Pyramid Head could know of a survivor with a Flashlight hot on pursuit and wants to bait them out.
Sometimes a hook is just more preferable from its location, like central and right next to the main gen, so that both can be patroled and kept an eye on. And of course, sometimes the killer might want to preserve the tormented status for the mori, as both the unhooked and the unhooker lose their tormented status.
Pyramid Heads cage isn't just a no-brainer every time its available, it has lots of nuances to it that might elude the careless observer.
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I am so happy! So many fine folks chiming in to defend ma boi Pyramid Head <3