Akumakaji
Akumakaji
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830090#Comment_3830090
The killer knows when the survivor goes into the void and gets to see scratch marks. The survivor does not get to know when the killer goes into the void and does not have a terror radius. How is that not killer sided? Yes, they added loops into the void, they had to with these changes but you absolutely have to run balanced to get to any of them with the totem being up the way it is. That vault location on top is only mean if the killer does not know how to get around it, which most of them do.
"Can you recommend any killer streamers that claim that this event favors them?" SpookyLoopz literally has a YT vid titled "The most killer sided Halloween event EVER"
And yes, I know both sides have been having problems; I am not ignorant to that. Thats why I made sure to include the comments like gen slowdowns did not need the nerf they got and listed maps that are way too survivor sided. And yes, I forgot about the +10 seconds on hook stages, that was absolutely not necessary either.
But the problem is the level and frequency of killer toxicity. I love being humped on the ground for 4 minutes and it not being reportable because "game time still progresses." I do not condone being toxic on either side. I do not like watching survivors bully killers (I have actually stopped watching streamers because they chain blinded a killer who already gave up) or teabagging but I also do not like having to run full anti-tunnel then get slugged the whole match or vice versa.
And while I like the idea of incentivizing spreading hooks, I have lost track of how many killers have literally said "I dont care about the points, I care about the kills" such as the nurse after bleeding us all out for 4 minutes so I do not see that changing anything.
And I left out the absolutely stupid implementation of the finisher mori which guarantees if you are the second to last left, you are getting slugged. Every game is slugging for the 4k now.
Well, see? That was a much more levelheaded and constructive take then your OP. I had watched that Spooky Loopz video when it released, but I didn't recall any really killersided stuff he showcased there. I speeded through the video again and all he showcased very (probably cherrypicked) matches where the Blight Serum add-on worked perfectly. Have you tried that one yourself? You get 1(!) charge per hooking event and then the first activation of your power is replaced by a single Blight rush with no bounce. Its FUN if it works, but unless you really get into the Blight Serum mindset, you just as often forget that its in play and aimlessly slither around, wasting a good shot at your actual power. Thats OKAY, it adds fun and chaos to the game, but even if you use it perfectly it isn't exactly gamebraking and mostly gets value from the fact that the survivors aint expecting it. Last year my biggest joy was playing Bubba with this add-on and zooming past survivors in chase and activating the chainsaw when in front of them.
Besides that, the void is really a huge timesink and as killer you will never get the time invested in three channeling actions plus traveltime back with a single haunt down. The 1-2-tap made it barely worthwile, but the current version definitely not. I don't know if you were around last year, when the halloween event was an absolute nightmare for killers, but survivors abused the absolute shabang out of the teleports, got easy and free escapes through the near instant teleports and got an absolute safe healing refuge there, so the broken status and sound notification for killers was an absolute MUST to even level the playing field. The teleports aren't instantly, but they are fast enough that the killer REALLY has to be on the survivors toes to catch them, otherwise they will teleport away right from under the killers nose.
The stuff you mostly bemoaned, ie the BMing and toxicity, thats valid, but thats not event specific, that could be done at every other time. Its sad that some players be that disgusting and bad sports during an event, but events are somehow always sweaty and thats on both sides. If a survivor throws down a smoke bomb in front of me and plays me a rocksong, thats fun and they might get a love tap and send away, but most survivors play balls to the walls like their live depends on it and use the smoke bombs to their full capacity, while I haven't had time to fetch a haunt in what feels like a week. So while the BMing part is sad and really off-putting, thats a general problem that BHVR needs to figure out and solve, but the void is still mostly a survivors plaything and you will have a hard time to convince me otherwise.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830094#Comment_3830094
Well ok heres an example
current version activates for 40s per use
with the decreasing returns the first activation might last 60s, then the next would last 50s ect, so even if you only manage 3 procs per match you would get 150s of total time from the perk compared to 120s with the current version
It could work the same way in reverse though
For each generator completed gain a token, for each token extend the duration this perk is active for by ~5 seconds, so early game ones are less impactful but late game ones can last a very long time
Ah okey! Well yeah, I guess that could work. I actually only managed to get 3 activations a couple of times, 2 seems to be the norm. And for such a hard activation, I would like to see some more bang for my bucks.
The problem I have is that you have basically no control over when the perk activates: even a 99% gen could be abandoned by survivors if they feel its unsave and they think you might camp it, thus they split up and pressure others. And while the bonus speed and undetectable is really sweet, the unpredictability really hampers its positive impact on the game. I feel that the 60s was a really good spot and that the 45s was an overcorrection that the perk didn't needed. I am on the verge of dropping the perk alltogether, when I just started to like it and I think thats not a good positon for an off-meta perk to be.
Of course, I am just one voice of many, but this perk is rarely incountered in the wild, and the nerf probably didn't help its popularity. While Peanits gave it a good explaination in one of his last posts of CM, ie that with its new easier activation process they wanted to reign in its power a bit, I feel this was a not a direction this perk needed to go.
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As a sucker for Head On: YES! That woul be a much welcomed QoL buff. Right now the perk can only be used by SWFs, and even they need some good communication about it. While I wouldn't want to face a dedicated bully squad with multiple Head Ons, it would still be pretty nice to see a locker that could potentially save ones life during a chase.
Same goes for Cameradry: why don't we get an icon that its potentially in effect? Similar to Reassurance, this would just need one drive bye survivor to make the life for would be campers that much harder. I swear: if Cameradry was properly buffed and Reassurance got a little bit bigger activation radius so that you wouldn't have to drive by right next to the survivor, this two perks alone could erradicate camping quite effectively, with one survivor providing nearly enough time for the others to do all the gens.
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@bjorksnas said:
Id rather see them reduce the duration for each time it procs rather than give it an overall duration decrease (oh they also either don't have it displayed right or actually nerfed it down to 40 seconds ingame
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/66ILPPIWJRA0/7bf213f7d3-0fb0-48b8-a40f-d6107faeef3d-7d.png
2-3 procs per game should be impactful but to keep it more in line even if you manage to get a 4th / 5th time you should start having greatly diminished returns (especially because at minimum you always can get 1 per match since the last gen being done also counts as the other 2 gens being completed and thus always activates it if you kicked one of the last 3 gens)
It should just get a new effect that says (after each time this perk activates gain a token decrease the duration by 10 seconds per token)
Hmm … but then you would have even less incentive to use the perk, if each activation made it worse? I don't really understand this reasoning.
But your post gives me an idea, if we go by the kinda lore behind the perk, it should actually get better and better the more often it activates and the more the algorythm learns. Either that or maybe give it automatically the whole endgame as a duration? How cool would that be :D
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Mate, take a break when you feel like it, but I cannot see in any way, shape or form, how this event is even a little bit killer sided, not talking about ridiculous levels of being so. Any venture into the void is a huge, huge, HUGE timesink for the killer, where they have no map presence at all, and the void is far from an "all you can kill" buffet, there are some good loops there, even pallets, and that vault location on top, down to the void portal with the rickety bridges is just mean.
At the beginning of the event killers could fire the haunts at point blank and 1-2-tap a survivor, this could SOMEWHAT even out the huge timesink into going into the void and letting 3+ survivors having free range on their gens, but since that was nerfed and patched out I couldn't even fathom to venture into the void in order to deliver some void energy and lose 1min on gen time.
Can you recommend any killer streamers that claim that this event favors them? I wouldn't mind giving them a watch and maybe learn a trick or two that I am missing. With the rest, you are somewhat right: slugging and camping are becoming a problem, but thats going hand in hand in what happened before: the nerfing of most regression and the added +10s on EVERY. SINGLE. HOOK. Even if you don't camp, a survivor sitting on a hook is pretty save for such long times, when even a bad one can't be hooked or tunneled another time. Yes, a survivor on the hook isn't doing gens, but sometimes they don't need to, as a dead survivor is even worse. With how long the timer is now, survivors can comfortable sit on gens, maybe finish them and still come back for the save, having ther cake while eating it.
It has been discussed up and down on the forums, but I am firmly in the camp "make hooking and spreading hooks great again", hooks and hooking have become more and more a detrimental activity for killers, and the game never incentivised spreading hooks. I offered some ideas of how to do so and others have offered their own ideas, and I think BHVR should do something along that lines, ie make it more worthwile for the killer to keep everyone alive (and on the lore-side increasing the despair, while keeping the flame of hope alive), then trying to get someone out of the game ASAP.
Play some killer, my friend, or take a break. Both sides have massive problems, and saying that only one side is unbalanced or suffering is pretty desingenious. The changes of the past, with 6.1 being the biggest culprit, breed efficiency into both sides playstyle, while trimming off all the fat. All we got left is a lean, mean killing/survivor machine (god, how often have I written this exact phrase? :D But I am pretty proud of it, so humor me), with no room for playfullness, and thats on BHVR to changel, as players will always favor the lazy way to victory.
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@GeneralV said:
What a wholesome story! Those are rare around here.
And I hope to play against this Meg because I still haven't found this damn tanuki.
I sadly didn't screencap the Tanuki found scene, because I was a bit awestruck at the moment, but the little rascal will forever be etched into my mind as the guardian spirit of friendship. Good luck finding the little one ^_^
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@TotemsCleanser said:
This is so wholesome and honestly so very welcome among so much discourse and negativity :')
Thank you! And yes, it was. Honestly that game took a lot of the vitriol out of me and I tried to be more forgiving and all around cool afterwards. Sure, a lot of survivors were trying to get under my skin, but in the end most only tried to get my attention so that their team could maybe finish another gen.
With all the head to head fights we sometimes lose sight of the person behind the game avatar, and both sides could win a lot by being a bit more understanding of the other sides plight.
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In a way its like mistepping in real life: you can go down the slippery slope, because its more easy and seems to be scott free at the moment - but it will burden your soul and you will have to pay dearly at a later date. Or you can take the harder and more painful choice by literaly going OUT of your way to walk into harms ways and soak up one of the tough hits that life sometimes throws your way. Pyramid Heads power is quite literally the most lore accurate of them all, and thats so beautiful, yet seldom appreciated.
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Good Luck Mr Peanits, what ever you may be doing now, I bet it slaps!
I never got the chance to got any of my comments getting attention by you, but thats okay T_T
Maybe see you in the fog.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828741#Comment_3828741
The event queue is for grabbing crystals and throwing them down and strumming the lute as the smoke clears like I'm at a rock concert. Survivors doing anything else are playing it wrong.
I did the killer Tome challenges yesterday and was amused with releasing the haunt. It's pretty fun to use. Not sure it makes up for how annoying the smoke bombs are, but I'm surprised I don't see the haunts more when I'm playing survivor. I don't understand why a killer would even bother with the event queue if they're not going to enjoy the event and the toy it gives them, because the smoke bombs are annoying.
The event has the tome challenges and gives more bloodpoints. I also think that the void bombs are an excelent addition to the game and I think its a given that we will see them enter the regular gameplay in some shape or form.
As with most of this events, though, the killer has just not enough time to go to the void, not unless they are already winning. The time spend to go into the void, deliver and channel that void energy and moving out again will never be regained by using a Haunt. At the start of the event killers could 1-2-tap a survivor with a point blank Haunt and a basic attack, and even that was hard to justify the immense time sink, now that this was patched out the void is basically a complete detriment to the killer and just a source of (fun) smoke bombs and cheap escape routes for survivors, even though its not as completely free as it was last year.
I must say, I sadly haven't encountered a single survivor who played for me during a smoke bomb, only those that ran away, but that sounds awesome and I will try so myself tomorrow.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
Survivor is literally easy mode.
Don't cut yourself on that sarcastic edge.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829016#Comment_3829016
I see. I can't argue with this because its correct. Thank you.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829047#Comment_3829047
Yeah, apologies. I was using my own experiences as the de-facto reality and that's clearly not the case. Perspective expanded.
Please define PITA? Not familiar.Edit: Nevermind, I understand it now lol
Wow, seeing something like this, ie someone makeing an honest mistake and admitting it and just moving on is SO rare here and thus I applaud it :)
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829030#Comment_3829030
We are talking about killer perks. Territorial perks for killers are generally not a good idea because they would be effective in 3gens and not much else. Maybe on a small map like The Game or Midwich but these maps are already not good for survivors. You generally have very limited capabilities to decide the direction a survivor will run in because they are the one that is running from you, not the other way around.
Seeker perks are fundamentally not in tune with the killer role. Putting a second objective on the killer can only work, if it was somehow stronger than going after survivors. Which would immediately result in the perk either being broken or incredibly weak. Not to mention, that it would take away interaction between the killer and the survivors.
Meme perks are a fine idea, although we do have some of those already. Distressing is mostly a meme perk and though Two Can Play doesn't nerf you directly it's pretty close to a meme perk as well.
Disinformation perks similar to Freddy's dream pallets might sound like a good idea but the problem is that they need some restrictions and are likely not going to work against SWFs (see original Legion concept). These restrictions could either come with these perks being hex perks or something else. Hex perks in general are probably not the best approach anymore. Let's be honest, there is a reason why they are quite unpopular. Other restrictions again are very hard to balance. There is also the issue that as of now 2 killers already have fake pallets (Doctor and Freddy).
I have no idea how you would even attempt to balance an ability overriding perk. Not to mention, that these would also need some restrictions so that you couldn't just dash and immediately get a M1. Otherwise, playing against a Myers or Ghostface would be a horrible time. Exhaustion perks for killers have the same general flaw in concept.
Resource manipulation counts as chase perks. We do have some of these already. Bamboozle, Crowd Control and Blood Favour come to mind. What else would you do? Something like Mage Hand? That's literally a killer power, so that will never happen and with good reason. If it was Mage Hand for windows, that would be horrible to play against and I guarantee you such a perk would be hated. Unless of course it came with a downside so terrible that the perk would never be used. Remote pallet breaking is already a part of Knight's power, so that is not an option either. Not to mention that people would hate such a perk as well.
You only have so many options and you need to keep in mind that these perks could synergise with killer powers. We already know that the devs are not too keen on the idea to ban some perks from specific killers, so that issue can't be disregarded.
I remember that there was once a fun conversation about how Zanshin Tactics could be buffed, as it was the killer perk with the lowest pickrate, and one popular choice among killers was the ability to destroy one or two undropped pallets, maybe with a cooldown or recharging per 45s in chase. Just imagine the possibilities! But of course, I can see why such a thing would never happen and why survivors would hate it ^_-
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@legiondoctor said:
Im tired of seeing finesse and lithe every match
I knew that I would hate the perk when it released, because of all the extremely close calls I already got all the time, but in the end it wasn't as bad. Yeah, everytime I see that animation I cringe a bit, but the perk already has a cooldown and you need to be healthy, so in the most important chases it won't even matter.
And Lara is best girl, so I can't hate on her perks T_T
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I am always amazed that it isn't a standard feature. Its nice that we can see when you are making progress, but a real permanent, live update would be awesome, especially with this kinda challenges where you have to do "x things in one trial" and where you would only get a notification when you did the whole thing.
And then there were this aweful challenges in the past, where you never knew if it worked, until after the trial. I don't want to know how much time I wasted and games I threw for this darn "hide in a locker within 10s of a chase starting", not knowing if it counted or not (Plottwist: the challenge was bugged for half a year and was unoptainable in that time).
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@Viciusaurus said:
The only DbD clips I really enjoy are the weird meme ones and Spunchbop
I love RustTV, that guy must have the most funniest DBD shorts and is a genius.
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@ErebusSurge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829394#Comment_3829394
yes it is to kill, the game is vastly majorly tailored to that. Killers have powers, survivors don’t, killers essentially have 6 perks, survivors don’t, maps are smaller, loops removed, killers have speed boost, they have sub human reach, teleport, undetectable… their perks are 6/8/10 seconds survivors are 0.5/1/2 seconds..
the game is entirely made to ensure you get your kill. So much so it isn’t a game. It’s a forgone conclusion. If you aren’t getting 4k as a killer then you’re making a huge mess of it.
If your aim is to kill, leaving 4 people on the floor waiting for bleed out isn’t getting the kill really is it..OMG mate, this is so biased and shortsighted and blind to half the problems the game has, that I don't know where to start. Its okay to have a favored side, I have that too, but to purposefully look the other way isn't solving anything, either, we had that pre 6.1 when killer was at its worst and they had to work through multiple layers of survivor protection each and every game, making survivors so unbelievable save that they basically danced on the killers nose from second 1 in the trial.
The MMR might be much maligned, but its in so far real, that it isn't handing baby or even mid survivors to good killers constantly, far from it. Most of the time killers have to sweat REALLY hard, just to break even, and if they are thrown a group of baby survivors, its often not so easy to shift gears. But not getting a 4K isn't messing up, its a common occurence. If you wan't to witness what kind of survivors I face on a regular basis, I can arrange a stream if you want.
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Instead of arguing for or against slugging, and why its done, why don't we make hooking great again? And spreading hooks great for the first time?
There is another thread about this and its actually a pretty good concept: device some system that makes spreading hooks and keeping all survivors alive MORE beneficial then tunneling and camping someone out early. This would still be an oppressive situation, with mounting debuffs or regressions or whatever, BUT with everyone being still in the trial it would probably still be much more fun then dying early, and even with debuffs or whatever a team could still fight the killer.
The fact that DBD has no kind of comeback mechanic or anything is another kicker, you either snowball early and win big, or lose big, the tight games on the razors edge are so rare, that we should worry about how we can make the basic game the best it can be.
Besides that, a cute lil minigame would be fun :)
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
This issue has gotten 10x worse this past patch, because for some reason the devs think that killers need moris basekit. Now every match is just killers slugging people out instead of hooking so they can get the mori.
There needs to be a base mechanic to address this. Funnily enough, they were going to do this alongside the original basekit mori, but forum killers complained and complained and so the devs had to roll it back. Typical.
Come on, devs.
Its not only the basekit mori, but especially the +10s timer on every hook. This alon defanged hooking so much and made slugging often the better alternative. Just like nerfing the safety net for the survivors back in the days when DH had a 75% pickrate, and making them fear for ther lives again breed the super efficency into the survivors, and we felt it via "gens fly" and "you down the first survivor and three gens pop".
In a complex game like DBD you can't change big things like this in isolation, it will always have unforseen consequences and sideeffects. Many applaud the +10s hook timer as "yeah, thats just fair", but fail to see that this has so much more impact on the game, because its on every survivors hook state. This gives them so much free time on hooks that the killer often can't effort to pick up, walk to a hook and walk back to get into the action.
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Yeah bro, you are on your own with this one. OTR is strong, no questions asked, but its full strength only unfolds if you tunnel that survivor and invest the time into doing that, THEN its a huge timesink. But thats the point of this perk. I sometimes wish that it would be a bit more obvious that its in play, like giving a little cue "do not tunnel this survivor, let them go Of The Record" and not only possibly deducting that the perk is in play, because that survivor is silent, which could also just mean Iron Will, but besides that nitpick, the perk is fine.
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If you play on PC you can record your playsessions with a programm like OBS and then afterwards delete them if not needed anymore. It can get a bit disk space intensive if you keep too much of your stuff, but thats probably the only way to go. If you then need to show BHVR some footage you can upload the snipped about that game as an unlisted youtube video and send them the link.
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I kinda liked her during the intermediate rework area, when you could go on full on teleporter frenzies and actually get kills with condemn, without playing 3d-chess with survivors, but I also understood that she didn't really fit the game with that playstyle. Still, I think it was a cool diversion from the normal loop and think that they should have tweaked that version a bit, instead of backing down to the release-like version we got now.
I think its kinda sad that a lot of killers aren't as plug and play, like the original ones and the first batch. With Trapper or Wraith or Billy you can just start doing something, use their power and here and there, understand what goes on and get better and sometimes (but not with Trapper) have a good time, but with some of the newer killers, you REALLY have to sink time into them to learn their kit and understand their ins and outs, to get to the juicy parts, and THEN they shine, but before you get there they are pretty lackluster and kinda low-tier.
Release Sadako was strong with the one-pump-willy playstyle, ie Ring Drawing and slugging and thus spreading condemned, but that was VERY specific and you really needed to learn how to do that properly, she really was far from plug and play and was held back by many of her mechanics. And today I am not even sure where she sits, tbh. She is such an iconic character and I would love her to be cool and different, but it feels like her comdemn and tape mechanic are still somewhat undercooked and I guess we wont see a real good version of her anymore.
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@Lixadonna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828502#Comment_3828502
But you all want basekit Barbeque and Chili?
I mainly talked about old BBQs bloodpoint bonus, BUT there is also this to consider: every killer back in the days had BBQ equipped for the bloodpoints, but each hook also showed them opporunities and peeled them off the hook naturally. So what if the killer got a base BBQ with a single survivor that has the least ammount of hooks? That would have a similar effect, especially if combined with the other effects we mentioned.
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@NotVerySuss said:
To clarify, I am a killer main who loves to play the game for fun and try my best to keep the game fun for my opponents. When the change first came out I was happy about it since I thought it would discourage killers from camping and tunneling and I never thought it would have an impact on me since I play fair.
I still play fair even after that change but I have noticed my games have gotten so miserable. After a lot of thinking and analyzing, I realized the issue..
These extra 10 seconds might seem so little at first and won’t make an impact specifically for the killers who play fair but in reality it’s quite the opposite. These 10 seconds are in 2 hook stages, for 4 different survivors.. it’s not just 10 seconds, it’s actually 80 seconds in total. The killers who tunnel and camp and still do it anyway regardless of these 10 seconds, but for the killers who play fair it’s 80 seconds of less pressure and free time to do gens..
I noticed an increase of the situation where the survivors will greed finishing the gen before going for the hook rescue.. but now it can be done without much of a risk thanks for this change.. i admit i’m not the best killer. I used to win a lot and lose sometimes.. but now I feel like I lose most of matches. It could be a skill issue or it’s because this change is giving the survivors too much free time to do gens.
I just hope they can revert it maybe find a better solution to eliminate the boring play-styles but without hurting the fair killers..
what are your thoughts of this?For real, I had so many games were the survivors just hugged gens and still got the save in what feels like the last 5s. It really feals bad when you get nothing to show for it and the survivors get away with both and even get rewarded for their greed.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828389#Comment_3828389
I’m talking about when you are already dragging your sword. You can instantly cancel into an M1. So you can drag your sword while holding your ranged attack moving at 110% completely shutting down a pallet or window entirely. And then instantly M1 with no downside whatsoever.
The best zoning killer in the game and it’s not even close.
He is good at zoning, indeed probably the best, as many survivors dont take vaults for fear of getting hit, thats right, but the projectile attack is narrow enough that good survivors can sidestep it, especially since Pyramid Head has to lock down for a moment. I have seen survivors hug the smallest of openings in the most mindboggling "surefire hit" situations or just evade to the side in the last possible couple of frames after a vault - the Punishment of the Damned has a traveltime and isn't instantly and many know how to work around its limitations.
But when you travel with the sword in the ground, you can NOT (100000000%) instantly cancel into an M1, that takes a full whole second. You CAN bodyblock a pallet while doing this and I have seen countless survivors try to stun me while I recover from me sword pull and hit them afterwards, but its far, far from instantly.
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Bring back old BBQs blood point bonus as basekit, but only increase the counter as long as all survivors are alive, heck we could also just go higher and higher till 8 hooking everyone.
We could also maybe give it an old Grim Embrace like effect once the killer hooked every survivor for the first time, blocking or regressing the gens in the match - but only if no survivor died by that point. The idea is to give the killer a tangible boon for spreading hooks and not tunneling a survivor out ASAP.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827960#Comment_3827960
Who cares if she can zone? Pyramid Head zones better and he moves at 110 when zoning and can instantly cancel into an M1, not to mention hitting through obstacles. And while yes she can zone from further away, survivors move 23% faster than her when she is charging. If you get zoned from far away that’s on you.
Instant cancel into the M1? What version of Pyramid Head are you playing? Putting that giant sword down is slow as molasses and takes 1s .. I think the same as for the Huntress to raise and lower her hatchets.
Pyramid Head is REALLY clunky, during his PTB he apparently played really smooth and responsive, but since then they made his sword feel really stuck in the earth and jittering around.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828289#Comment_3828289
It’s probably because maps have become smaller and weaker, and so many anti-loop killers are in the game. No wonder people don’t want to be chased unless they are exceptional at looping.
So you claim that people want to do something other then being chases? What else is there? People always say that chests are a waste of time and most totems are worthless these days, so all there seems to be is sitting on gens, which people also claim is boring and uninteractive.
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
This perk, since it had the additional buff of 2 extra seconds, was already a very used perk, with the distortion nerf it makes it too strong with other aura reading perks, in my opinion, it should only have a single effect, or it just give extra time to other perks, or it reads the aura at the beginning of the match, a lot of people will come and complain about swf, but the one who is harmed is soloQ, swf even if they remove all the perks they will still be strong, so we must improve the sides that are weaker, like soloQ and some killers, and not make killers like Nurse and Spirit even stronger
Just for the fun of it and because I so seldom engange in pure "us vs them hurdur!" would you use the survivor version of Lethal Pursuer, just like with WoO and old Zanshin Tactics, ie a perk that showed you all gens at the start of the match for, lets be generous, 20s, and then ceases to do anything? Would you use Eyes of Belmond, if this was its only useage? Or would the +2s aura reading sweeten the deal to chose Eyes of Belmond over some other perk like, lets say, Iron Will or Resilience?
And why isn't eyes of Belmond super meta, if this effect is so good? Info is everything in this game, after all.
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@[Deleted User] said:
this is literally a ridiculous argument. Survivors have to react to the killer. It’s not the other way around. So the killer can leave the loop and chase someone else.
Stop asking for every little thing a survivor has to be nerfed. To all of you killer mains…. Play solo queue survivor, please just play a few games of that and then come back on here and say some idiot statement like nerf jungle gyms. I’m so sick and tired of scrolling these forums and seeing every thing being complained about. Need survivor, survivor shouldn’t have this perk, etc, etc. all you guys do is complain about survivor. Why don’t you just play the game?
Maybe I should post every day asking for a 50/50 escape and kill rate. Would that trigger all you killer mains?? It’s only fair right?? 50/50 seems fair to me. Why is it split 60/40??? That’s not fair at all.
Dude, chill. Here is one truth about DBD: there are a LOT of survivor mains who only play survivors and basically never touched killer. My friend with whom I regularly roam the fog has 2.5k hours, but she still hasn't gotten the "sacrifice 100 survivors" achievment.
And while killer mains exist that ONLY play killer, this players are far, far more rare. Most killer mains play a pretty fair share of survivors, too, and be it just to learn about the way survivors think and where they might hide etc.
I am what you would call a killer main, but I play about a 70/30 split, at times even 60/40, just for the fact that you can't play your killer with your friends, unless you play "kill your friends" which we sometimes do, but most of the time we play the game in the wild.
I have completed every single tome challenge and every single achievment in the game, some of the survivor ones were pretty rough and tough, and I surly wouldn't have managed so as a complete casual. And while I mostly play in a duo or trio SWF, yeah, I occasionally play soloQ, especially when I want to just finish a couple of the event tomes. I feel you, soloQ can be rough at times and it feels so frustrating when you slip into second hook stage, just because no one deemed it necessary to move their behind from their gens, even though it would have been just a quick strol over here, but you can't change that.
And a potential discussion about jungle gyms and how M1 killers (not) interact with them won't change anything in this regard. As @Xernoton already said, they have their place in the game, but for M1 killers they are a truly uninteractive wall and roadblock, and discussing some ideas about them isn't "idiotic statement" that just fell off the sky, but born from our experience. Your voice will be taken into account, just as everyone elses, but try to be a little bit level-headed yourself and don't call people names or demean their experiences - just as you want your own to be taken serious.
And the 50/50 split has been talked to death, here. Other people can explain that better to you, but in the tl,dr a 50/50 split favors the survivors in a way that they lose all respect from the killer, we had that in the past and DBD was objectively worse then.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827972#Comment_3827972
What’s off about this particular statement is that WoO only recently became the most used survivor perk. This occurred after the last five most used survivor perks were nerfed. The most used survivor perks could become bond or kindred or sprint burst or deja vu (these two I have seen complaints about) and the arguments would be the same as they are for WoO. Because it isn’t really about the strength of a survivor’s perks; it’s about rendering their utility futile or so convoluted that the perks don’t really provide value. What people want—and maybe this isn’t really you, I don’t know—but what killers want is for survivors to have perks that don’t really do much or, if they do anything useful, do so under the most extreme of circumstances. They want limited value at high costs because ultimately that makes a killer’s game easier.
I have made my peace with WOO. While I hate the autopilot playstyle that it supports and find it disingenuous to claim that it's only useful to soloQ and newbies, and I think that it is an extremely strong perk in the hands of already good survivors, who can plan and extend chases perfectly with it, I also see the invaluable information this perk provides to the most vulnerable parts of the player base, ie the new ones and soloQ.
I want to try to be somewhat neutral and don't want to be part of the constant shifting of the goal post. I fought DH and MfT tooth and nail, because they were genuine busted, but WoO is just a nuisance and a pretty feelgood perk, so I support to just leave it alone.
Maybe we could talk about a cooldown after a dropped pallet or after x seconds in chase or only showing distant pallets but not near ones,ie being blind within 12m? But if nothing changes, then I am happy with that outcome.
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@CleanseThis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826360#Comment_3826360
WoO and old Zanshin were 1 to 1 perks. Do you think survivors get more value from WoO than killers got from old Zanshin if so why? if not why?
One thing that could be a pretty big hint: WoO is the most used Survivor perk, sitting at a lofty 30% pick rate, while old Zanshin was the LEAST used Killer perk, with a smoll pick rate of 0,6%. Basically 1 to 1 effect, but worlds appart in usability and viability.
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@[Deleted User] said:
@Akumakaji So nerf a basic function of the game? Nerf a jungle gym?? So when a survivor plays for THOUSANDS of hours to MAYBE get good at looping you want to take that skill away from that player? If a killer had thousands of hours that killer would know how to play that jungle gym. You said yourself “your paired up with players of your skill level” so if a killer is paired up against a survivor of equal skill level then it just becomes a skill issue. And you just need to get better at the game. Don’t resort to nErF jUnGlE gYmS because you have a wittle twouble downing survivors. I swear these killer mains want the kill rate to be 100% if they could have it there way. Killers are the only ones allowed to have fun right??
You are just projecting, mate. The 100% comment alone robs you of any credibility and will not get you taken seriously in any capacity. Try to be a bit more moderate and constructive.
Yeah, jungle gyms are a basic part of the game, many parts are. And after 8 years and thousands of hours, some players have reached the extreme limits of whats possible. One maxime of the game is, that eventually any survivor should go down, thats why we have systems like bloodlust, and 5 gen chases shouldn't actually be possible, if both parties are at their a-game. But some players still manage to do so routinely, because they can run the tiles 100% perfect, giving the killer no option to catch up. And this players are not THAT rare that they could be counted on one hand.
The best counter is to just ignore such players, because most often they lack the discipline to jump on a gen, because they actually WANT to be chased, but thats not the point, the point is that in the hand of some portion of the player base jungle gyms are neigh infinites and thats what we are talking about.
We are not talking about "nerfing survivors till killers get a 100% kill rate", we are talking about killers like Myers or Trapper, who have in certain situations 0% to get the survivor, and if that is fair? Skill issue from the survivors is taken account for - they can run the killer for 5 gens by running this tiles perfectly and by waiting at checkpoints, but often the killers skill is not taken into account - they can try to reverse the loop, mind game, moonwalk, but some tiles have such good checkpoints, that no matter the killers skill, they won't get the survivor.
Is this how a fair DBD match should work? Is this something thats worth discussing about? Or should we handwave this away, because "killers oppinion on that don't matter, because they only want 100% kill rates!!!1"?
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@[Deleted User] said:
if they nerf survivors anymore or nerf jungle gym I’m just gonna play killer and never touch survivor. I literally can’t lose when I play killer and I’m Iridescent 1. But when I switch over to solo queue survivor I can never escape. I don’t know why killers come on to these forums and complain about survivors basic functions. Do you just want survivors to run in a straight line?? I’m confused, how much easier do you want the game to be for killer.
everytime you think that people got the basics of the game finally down, you read a comment like this and its back to the start. In the past ranks were used to decern matchmaking, ranging from rank 20 (Ash) all the way to rank 1 (Iri). Since 2021 (!) though, ranks have been replaced by grades, ranging from Ash 4 to Iri 1, and their singular purpose is to see you climb through the grades during the month and to get up to 2 million BP at the 13th. NO, I repeat, NO matchmaking mechanic is tied in any way, shape or form to the current grades, you will be matches with exactly the same players, no matter if you are Ash 4, Gold 2 or Iri 1.
And while many factors play into the DBD match making system, like your own performance, region and time of the day, from my personal POV, killer ain't as easy and braindead and simple and "game plays itself for you", as many paint it here. If anyone is interested, I can gladly stream a couple of my sessions on Twitch for anyone to see. Sure, the game sometimes matches me with potatoes that are way below my paygrade, but most of the time I have to sweat my behind off like there is no tomorrow.
And we are not discussing just any nerfs, we are discussing how some tiles are a bit unfair for some killers, ie the so called M1 killers, who have littel to no chase power and option to catch a survivor IF the survivor plays the tile perfectly. I guess most survivor players aren't at this level and can't fathom this, but many killers regularly face survivors who are neigh uncatchable, because they got thousands of hours below their belt and they just run in perfect circles and a killer can only hope to bloodlust them, which is already basically throwing the game.
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Whats up with all this people bursting in here and throwing one half statement at the wall and expecting everyone to be instantly on the same page? This feels kinda rude, at least take 2-3 sentences to explain what you WANT from us to agree with. SMH
Kids these days …
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It would help if you didn't just burst in here and stated your piece, not everyone knows every killer and their add-ons in and out, I bet most have no idea what you are even talking about.
For everyone not knowing and too lazy to look it up, its Huntress, her yello Shiny Pin add-on increases her movement speed while holding a charged hatched by 5%.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
Meta means "after" in some old language. People conflate meta with top tier, and there's is usually an overlap but it's not always the case. Meta refers to the metagame.
Metas can vary by region and other factors such as culture and perception.
For example, Nurse is a top tier killer. Top tier killers tend to be played frequently. So she would be part of the Meta/metagame. But if all you ever see are Legions, then Legion is part of your Meta. You can scream at the top of your lungs "Legion isn't Meta!" But if all the top players all choose to play Legion, it doesn't matter that Nurse is stronger.
When you metagame, that means you are looking at the game after the fact and noticing trends. Dbd has lots of Meta gaming. For example, sometimes perceptions shift based off of YouTube videos or discoveries in the community. The Eruption Overbrine Meta was not discovered immediately in 6.1
Right now, I am in a slug Meta kindof. Doesn't matter whether or not hooking or slugging is better. Fact is, it's happening and it's my reality. So I was abusing WGLF to it's fullest because I needed it. Wglf was Meta for me.
I play Yugioh and it's the same deal with that. There is a set metagame in vacuums like online games, but actually going to your local card store your Meta preparations might be worthless because the locals Meta could be stuck in 2009 and all your counters are worthless
"I play Yugioh and it's the same deal with that. There is a set metagame in vacuums like online games, but actually going to your local card store your Meta preparations might be worthless because the locals Meta could be stuck in 2009 and all your counters are worthless"
This is an interesting point. There are two parts to meta: on one hand, the most effective tools available will be widely used, thats one part of the meta, so one the other hand, equipping a counter to that perk will most likely yield rewards. Back then when COH was at the hight of its power, I expected to see it evey game - when I played Shattered Hope for a while, it didn't yield the desired rewards, because it is a bad perk, but at least I could use it a basically every game. Would I play it nowadays, I wouldn't even get that much value out of it.
But for example DH was so prevalent, that you could expect it not only every game, but from every survivor, unless they showed you that they had some other exhaustion perk. And back then we had content creators design entrie builds around countering and defanging DH, with Hysteria, Blood Echos and even Septic Touch, could you believe it? I myself ran a Septic Touch build for a while, just because of that darn DH. THAT was a true meta in both senses.
I played Warhammer in the late 90s and early 2000s, and back then the internet existed, but it wasn't as dominant at analysing everything to the subatomic level, as we see it nowadays. Back then there was some common knowledge, like "this and this unit is really good", but cities, neightborhoods or even stores had their own meta. "That stores regular loves to use light cavalry with his High Elves", so a lot of other players saw the benefit of light cavalry and used it and everyone packed something to deal with that, and with you KNOWING that you could devise a counter to that unit that was originally set up to counter light elven cavalry, even if you were playing an Empire player. Thats what a living meta was "back in the days" :D
Nowadays the internet has leveled a lot of the playing field and done away with misconceptions. While we have slight local metas, like that the players in asian servers love to use Self Care and Clown, for the most part we have a rather homogenized meta, because everyone knows whats the best stuff. Every newby can buy a game, look up a youtube video or reddit post "whats the best build for X game 2024" and be right in the thick of it, without even learning the basics of the game.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827584#Comment_3827584
Until we are nothing but moving dust...
This is deep! I just feel like I am 14 again.
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I never understood the MMR part: why do you care about your MMR when you can't see it and the higher the number the sweatier the games?
The only real concern is the lowest reaches of MMR, the so called MMR hell, because there it really feels like "each survivor for their own", with no one helping you unhook, even if the killer is on the other side of the map, but besides that low low outlier, isn't a high MMR more of a detriment?
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@[Deleted User] said:
Really don't understand why they nerfed Machine Learning. It wasn't strong, and you have to lose a gen to use it. I have been having fun using it on Huntress because it confuses people, but aside from that it's not exactly nerf-worthy. They may as well just make it a 30 second timer and have it activate whenever a gen is finished.
Also the in-game text says "40 seconds" but the patch notes say "45 seconds" so it would be nice to know which is true.
For real, Machine Learning was fun to use as something new and interesting, but now with the 45s it feels so cramed and restricted again, that I feel it will fall off the face of the earth again. With 1min it gave the killer a tangible step up for losing a gen with some leeway to roam around and one or two mistakes along the way, while having fun with their boosted n stealthy speed. Now it feels like its over before you really got your bearing.
This is the thing that many survivors fail to grasp: so many killer perks in the past (and still in the presend, but its getting better) were held back by overtly strict conditions and restrictions. Dragons Grip, Make your Choice, Machine Learning, Thanatophobia, Trail of Torment, Darkness Revealed, Coup de Grace, Oppression, Hubris and others all have interesting ideas, but fall flat because their window of opportunity (He … see what I did there?) is so small and short, that the killer often can't capatilize on their effect.
BHVR has slowly caught up to this and decreased cooldowns for many of this perks, but for a perk that gets a maximum of 2 activations per round its pretty sad to be nerfed so shortly after it got buffed.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827436#Comment_3827436
do you mean the red scratches on the floor? I'm not aware of the scratches disappearing permanently. - If they do disappear permanently, this should be fixed too.
There is a bug that sometimes happens with the void crystals. Normally, when shattered they emit this smoke sphere and erase the survivors scratch marks for a while, but when the bug happens, the survivor in question won't leave scratch marks for the rest of the trial, pretty nasty.
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
The M1 + Haunt combo was being exploited, and made killers WAY TOO STRONG, and took away any form of counterplay from the survivors.
That is why it got fixed! Thank God it did.
It WAS strong in that situation by cutting the chase short, yes, but beforehand the killer had to enter the void, move their phat ass up that stairs and deliver some void energy and come all the way back - three channeling animations and lots of traverse time that could very easily translate of up to 1min of gen time or even more being deleted; the alternative being that the killer only enters the void when they are already winning or killed off two survivors.
The void is SUCH a devastating and huge timesink for killers, that the ability they got should at least be somewhat worth the effort … but it isn't, and now even less then before. In theory this is okay, its "just" a goofy little event - but survivors most of the time don't slack and go easy on the killers either, so its just as sweaty, if not more so, then ever.
While it felt "unfair" and "uncounterable" that the killer could 1-2-tap you with the clever application of a hunt, they already paid upfront for that chance by wasting an extraordinary amount of time in the void. The void time isn't equal and every second spend there is painfully felt by the killer.
Now I don't see any incentive to actually going there, unless the game is already in my pocked. And thats a pretty sad event, when one side of the party isn't allowed to play.
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@For_The_People said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430882/subconscious-drive-for-the-win
probably your muscle memory and instincts kicked in which has mind games baked in - good stuff :)
Could you say — killer instinct?
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@indieeden7 said:
Tbf if you're holding a tape there's 0 point in going into the void as survivor. If you're already holding a special item such as a videotape or the lament configuration (those which cannot be dropped) you cannot pick up a void crystal which is pretty much the only reason to even enter the void this year.
So many survivors escaped my grasp via the void. There are many ways to get some distance, its not as easy as last year with that busted instant teleports, but the void itself is extremely convoluted and its easy to loose line of sight there. Also, there is that window vault at the top that catapults survivors past all that rickity bridges, while the killer falls just straight down. So while you are right that the Void Crystals are the best thing here, evasion via void is still pretty strong.
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Like @InvadeGames said, its seperated per killer, but your lowest killer will always have 70% of your highest killer, as BHVR assumes that you retain a certain general skill set and game sense, no matter what killer you play. This sometimes feels pretty harsh with new killers, though, as there is basically no grace or breaking in period: if your main killer has reached to lofty hights of the soft cap MMR, then every new killer will be already thrown in with the big fish.
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Yeah, thats really annoying. It doesn't happen too often to me, but there are this very suspicious server crashes were I get booted out the very second I connect with a juicy lunge or just the very frame the servivor with the four letter/number name gets hooked.
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@GeneralV Will January be a time to cheer or time to despair? Got all my fingers, feet and appendices crossed for you and The 5 other Freddy mains >_<
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I just had a match were I downed the forth survivor and give it a try: I could fill the kill bar up and then let go and start anew. The survivor would slowly crawl like in slow-motion between each startup of the bar. Of course, after a couple of tries I picked the survivor up and let them wriggle off, but it seems that this loophole is not fixed at all and you can extend the dying period by quite some time this way.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824708#Comment_3824708
It's an interesting site, but it has problems from a sampling perspective.
- Self-reporting- Wins and losses can have an affect on whether someone chooses to report the result. There's no automatic data ingest.
- I don't see any language options on the site. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. But if it's English only, you're naturally going to over-sample Western countries.
- It's going to heavily over-sample PC platforms i.e. Steam/Epic via the method in which they ingest data. They take the data via screenshots through the Web UI or desktop app. It's not impossible for a console player to upload, but they'd have to jump through hoops.
It's a cool site and it can be fun to look at, but the data has problems.
Thats all valid and good points. I mostly thought about it in terms of self-reporting an win/loss and hadn't given the two other points much thought.
Still, in the end, just like with asking random strangers, you don't need to ask everyone, 1000 people is mostly sufficient, and Nightlights data has always been pretty close to BHVRs officially released data. Because Nightlight is basically live data you also see the effects of buffs and nerfs or even bugs pretty quickly, which is always fascinating.
So while I wouldn't take nightlights data as gospel or use it as hard currency in a discussion, I think it offers quite a good snapshot of the current situation that we shouldn't just dismiss it.
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@GeneralV said:
I don't think this is proof that an overwhelming majority of survivors are toxic.
My experience with the event so far has been very different than what you've described. In fact, I've seen way more killers than survivors acting toxic and making the game miserable for everyone, including post-game chat insults. But that doesn't mean the overwhelming majority of killers out there are toxic.
You are more likely to encounter toxic survivors simply because every match has 4 survivors, and just 1 killer. If the game was 4v4, you would see both in equal measure.
Thats a good point. My experience this event was mostly fun, too. If survivors played a map offering or brought 4 flashlights, I sweated, too, but most of the time I was rather chill and purposefully let some survivors "off the hook", leading to many more pleasant then mean spirited games.
But because there are 4 survivors to each killer, I can barely count the number of times that I got a 4E with no one waiting at the exit gates till the timer was up, at least on will always take the opportunity and I would say that I can count on my two hands how often 4E survivors just left.
With killers, I am equally pressed to remember many occasions were I was bleed out purposefully by the killer. Sure, I got hit on the hook here and there, but nothing too bad. I still fail to equate hitting on the hook to survivors t-bagging, mostly because I experience it so infrequently and rather rarely. A killer hooking a survivor on the hook isn't doing anything productive, and if its the last survivor, it will be over after the sacrifice animation.
So in my experience there are just many more toxic survivors then killers, BUT your playstyle can surely influence this. Some players will never make friends with the other side, but during events there is a lot more funny and playful and lighthearted interactions between the two roles then during off-seasons.
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I never understood why nightlight got so much flack and hate. Yes, its selfreporting, so its only the part of the playerbase thats even interested in this kind of data AND someone who is some kind of fan of the game, because someone casual wouldn't even know about the site, but its also showing you the other survivors and killers. When I record my killer matches there, the four survivors I verse are 100% true occurences and not in any way tampered with.
Likewise whan I play survivor, I get a pretty good picture of what general perks the killers I verse are running. Its a small sample size, but its result have been remarkably consistent with the date that BHVR has released over the years. The top 10 perks for both sides were 7-8 of 10 right, with often matching percentages, which is quite remarkable.
So just because its not official or self reporting this doesn't mean that Nightlight can be completely and easily handwaved and dismissed. There are many datapoints that are absolutely validly taken and Nightlight gives a pretty accurate snapshopt of the current situation.
I would love, though, that BHVR would allow easy tracking via steam. Steam already has this capabilities and if they greenlight it, we could all pool our steam data tomorrow. Why its not allowed is everyones guess.
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I know that this is a well-known bug by now, but everytime I see this it stall baffles my mind.
