On behalf of all survivor mains, we're sorry killers
It's obvious by now that we survivors ask for way too much from bhvr. We begged for basekits and mechanics that will make killers weaker. M1 killers soon have to be deal with not only 3 gen changes but also save the best for last, sloppy butcher and more. We beg for reworks that also made Trickster worse and onryo worse than ever before. We're deeply sorry for this.
We're always blaming killers for picking nurse, blight, wesker but never question ourselves why. It's because of our actions that ultimately lead to this situation. Now we're complaining that we see too much of these killers but instead of promoting a healthy balance we keep nagging the developers for nerfs to M1 killers and perks that actually helps M1 killers to flourish during the game and now the 3 gen meta will also kill off more lower tier killers such as Trapper, etc.
Comments
Don't sweat it. It probably wont go live unless they really want to cut the playerbase by half with queue times slower than a snail pace.
I think we should wait and see what these 3 gen changes will be before jumping to conclusions. Might really only nerf those situations that have games drag on for half an hour or more and that's it.
Of course, if 3 gen were to nerfed in any impactful way without giving killers a compensation, thing will look very grim for survivor queue times, I am positive. But we don't know the changes yet, so we should wait and see.
You are a survivor main for 2 days.
That's an issue on both sides. Some people call for nerfs just for the sake of it.
I think it's not a bad thing BHVR try to solve these different issues. Only, they need to consider that these are nerfs and they will have an impact on the game's balance. Which will have to lead to further killer buffs. This however isn't quite so easy, because as we've seen with Trickster it can make a killer absolutely terrible to play against.
Very strong 'How do you do, fellow survivors' energy.
won't jump into this since this feels a bit sarcastic or whatever you would call it, but you made a valid point. those 2 perks are essentially m1 perks and people have been asking for nerfs for these non stop which i think is both sad and hypocritical.
2 strong licensed Killers in a row with decent perks and at least one very strong perk.
Buffs to lots of chase perks (BHVR seem to be moving the game away from gen / hook defense and more towards encouraging chases. No bad thing imho).
Buffs to Sadako (maybe a little too buffed? I rarely lose with her now).
Buffs to Trapper. He's more enjoyable to play.
Buffs to Trickster (maybe not so successful, this one. I wasn't sure he needed buffing to be honest).
Demo back in the game.
MfT nerfed into the ground.
Teams still getting stomped all over in 80% of my SoloQ games.
Yeah, I'd say Killer is doing just fine.
TY to @C3Tooth for the coms
I were Trapper main, I dont like how he is now...Alot of traps, but no valuable places to set, spending too much time to set less value traps. He used to have 5 traps but each were powerful because the dark,fog,grass...
Don't get me wrong. He's still Trapper. I'm just glad his traps don't spawn at the edges of maps any more and he can get around the map a little quicker.
I still think he could use some buffs. Personally, I'd make trapper bag base kit and make disarming traps a bit more risky for Survivors (maybe a 20% chance of injury for disarming).
I think we should be apologizing to Survivor mains, right?
I mean, I think now is honestly the worst time to play Survivor, because there's a lot more tunneling, a lot more camping, and a lot more slugging. I mean, I've only begun to play recently, about a year ago, and it seems the average Survivor trying to have fun is suffering a lot.
Skull Merchant 3-gen has made Survivor less fun, as Knight and Singularity as well for holding three gens. I hope we're moving in a good direction, but Killers are being punished for good reason in my opinion.
Just because fixing these issues may result in buffs for survivors, doesn't necessarily mean they're not issues that need fixing.
3 gens, STBFL and Haemorrhage can be problematic. Not always, but certain tactics can abuse them.
But at the same time, if fixing these does tip the balance scales too far one way, then there should be other changes to mitigate that.
Most of the difficulty of playing killer comes from clunky, awkward gameplay design. Ridiculously narrow FoV, exhaustive cooldowns on every single action to give survivors windows to escape, wider than necessary flashlight angles, etc. If these QoL issues can be fixed for killer, it should be more or less equal give and take.
I find it hard to believe most players don't play both roles.
When someone claims to be a "Survivor Main" they don't always mean they only play Survivor, it could simply mean that they prefer to play Survivor.
I disagree with this. I "main" survivor, but I dabble in killer occasionally. When I first started playing dbd, I was a killer main. I didn't really like survivor. I even gravitated towards the harder killers at the time (Nurse, Huntress), and this was back when Nurse had 5 blinks.
I was being facetious but never mind.
More seriously I probably play a bit more killer than survivor but I wouldn't describe myself as a "main" of anything. Because frankly the moment you join a "camp" you lose all objectivity. We humans are inherently tribal and the stronger that tribalism is, typically the more blind to outside opinion and unreasonable we are.
I don't main a particular side, all I do is play DBD.
Those five people probably have really good opinions about the game and don't engage in mindless tribalism attacking the other side as the problem.
Is this post joke?
What is that?
Na, the thing is on both sides.
While a balanced match (skillwise) should lead to a 2kill 2 escape result, and would basicly a draw, no killer or survivors is satisfied with that outcome. With killers, you see that more in their playstyle. Tunneling at 5 gens (which, if successfull, leads more likly to a 4k), slugging for a 4k (because they see a 3k not as a complete win). Killers will use those taktics to get a 4k, which is with a 4 escape the most imbalanced outcome of a match.
Survivors just cant do it with their playstyle unless they play swf, and thus demand for nerfs of playstyles or perks that help with those playstyles.
My guess why these changes are coming is not that survivors are crying, but i think they kill rates might be too high overall at the moment.
Issue was addressed two posts back. Read up. 👆️
You know, if killers didn't camp the hook, there'd be no AFC or basekit endurance after getting unhooked.
If they didn't tunnel there'd be no anti-tunneling perks.
If they didn't rely on stalling the match out by kicking gens and refusing to chase anyone, regression perks would not have gotten nerfed.
At some point people need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming everyone else. If you keep taking a dump on the floor, don't get upset when BHVR comes in to clean up.
Don't mean to quote OneRepublic but, '"Its too late to apologize"
Now that I got that out.
"But never question ourselves why?"
All due respect that's not for any role to be asking, that's what BHVR should be asking before considering buffing/nerfing something based on word of mouth from the community.
As a general rule of thumb, I try to think about the other side and how things affect them. I'm not committed to this game enough to be in either camp.
That's great. 👍️ Neither am I.
But I play DBD because of a long enjoyment of horror films and the game is at its best when it plays out like a horror film. AS killer or survivor.
I get the same thought when someone says they almost always 4k because Killer is so easy.
Unfortunately Killer feels reduced to being a party clown for Survivor amusement.
This post just feels...weird.
I am sorry that you feel that way.
I’m sorry you feel the need to respond to most posts with brief responses dripping in condescension. Have considered taking a break?
Ah, the usual jest
Well I actually read the post’s title “we’re sorry Killers” (with the word ‘sorry’ being used attributively) as ‘we suck as Killers’
Sorry: in a poor or pitiful state or condition; unpleasant and regrettable, especially on account of incompetence
I'm sorry you feel that my posts are condescending.
I merely feel sorry that the game seems so miserable for you right now. Games are supposed to be fun and when they aren't is a sad thing indeed.
Can feel that way sometimes, as killer you have all the tools you need to beat a team but I do miss old moris.
There was something really visceral about being eliminated in a heartbeat that really kept you on your toes.
I get why people didn't like it, I get why waiting in a 10 min queue to load into a 2min game isn't the greatest, but man was it exciting to have a game with that level of threat.
Sometimes I wonder if its just really grumpy sore losers dictating the changes.
Would player opinion be different if the killer was a really hard bot and not another person? I never heard anyone complain that a raid boss in WOW was unfair to face you know what I mean.
One of the reasons why I really enjoy MWO, if you get caught out of position you get blasted and that's it game over, this can happen right at game start too.
I can't recall the MWO crowd moaning about this as much as the DBD crowd tends to or MWO introducing immunity to death in some circumstances. Are DBD players just more childish and reactive? Does the horror genre attract a more emotionally unstable crowd whom are less adept at playing well with others? Questions for the ages I guess.
I'm not a fan that poor decision making from the survivors creating a 3 gen situation has to be "fixed" by punishing killers. 3 gens are entirely avoidable. Heck, there is even a perk that literally points out which 3 gens those are AND makes you complete them faster.
You raise a very good point and I have no retort to that one. Kudos good sir, I tip my hat!
I think it’s a few things. The asymmetrical nature of the game means there are more Survivors than Killers. Survivors likely buy a lot more cosmetics, they show off to their friends and can actually see them being in 3rd person.
Business-wise it makes perfect sense to cater to Survivors for the above reasons and BHVR seems to be going all in with this mindset. Happier Survivors mean more purchases.
The core question is likely how happy can we make Survivors without driving Killers out of the game to the point Survivors are upset by wait times and leave the game?
Recent and upcoming balance changes make much more sense through this lens.
I feel weird for thinking the current Sadako isn't as bad as the old one, and even stronger than before. Condemned could be tuned better to be less oppressive but thanks to tapes being a side objective and no stuns in demanifest, it feels like the pace of gens is balanced out.
im not sorry at all, these killers in specific need nerfed.
Good on you for trying to be nice. I gave up after his 1000th thread about how BHVR only cares about survivors, and how killers are just playthings that are there to be abused for laughs. I've met people who have suffered horrifically in their lives, and even they don't come close to exhibiting the level of self-pity that dude expresses over a god damn computer game.
I have been a survivor player since 2017 that post was in concern of trying out killer for a few times only for me to stress out completely.
To be fair you can't blame players for using the strongest tools the game gives them. If bad game design means that playing in a 'low skill' 'unfun' way is the most efficient, that's what players are going to do, and it isn't fair to shame them. Heck many players shockingly DIDN'T play in these ways but some of the fixes can still punish them unfairly in certain situations.
Yes, I think it's good that BHVR is actually doing something about these things that isn't just adding a bandaid perk and calling it a day, but I think the worry is that they may be overstepping the mark and 'fixing' things that don't need to be fixed.
People tend not to open up to others who resort to personal attacks.
It definitely happens on both sides. But if someone made a post complaining that locker save infinites got removed I'd also be like:
They abused it, and now the authorities have come to take the kids.
Nerf survivors
Surv main btw
This. I am a killer main, but I play 30-35% of my matches as survior, as I would bereft myself of half the gameplay experience otherwise. I still think that survivors are strongest and still the power role, but that obviously depends on your MMR and what opponents you get. My biggest credentials is the fact, that I have every single achievment and tome challenge in the game, be it survivor or killer (with the expection of couple of Good Guy achievments and the new tome page), so I have seen most of the stuff the game can throw at you on both sides.
As a survivor main, I rarely see three gens -- and when I do it's almost always Skull Merchant. I feel like that's the reason for all this, because otherwise I think three gens are fine. I've seen an increase in tunneling and proxy camping, which I think would be a worse problem for newer players. I'd say I'm above-average and we do okay with it, but let a nurse show up and someone is killing themselves on hook.
Sadako is awful
The diary of a killer main...... You didn't fool me lol....
Ohh u doubt it?