That's it...
... We reached the point where only 2 killers are BARELY viable (nurse and blight, but i've still some doubts on the 2nd one in certain maps) due to EXTREMELY bad map design (easily linked strong loops paired with BS hitboxes), broken stuff (instaheals, styptic agents, anti hemorrage syringe, bnp, etc etc)h, better coordination due to the new survivor's hud, generators that are too fast and easy to do (at high mmr it's normal seeing 3 gens pop after a SINGLE chase) and perks that are too much strong, especially if stacked together (dead hard above all). Honestly i'm tired of all that bs that survivors have at their disposal and being PUNISHED for every action that i can do (want to do mixed hooks and injuring everyone? medkits, CoH and dead hard will deny this gameplay. wanna defend generators? Good luck with all the best perks that killer have nerfed into the ground and the new one that aren't strong enough for that matter. Wanna dispose of a survivor ASAP in order to get an easier late gane? No chance with the huge amount of chances that survivors have between bodyblocking, instaheals, perks and mostly the maps being essencially too much safe generally speaking). Back in the days (2019) this game was A LOT more funnier and healthier despite there was more broken stuff to use for both sides (probably because the broken addons/items were actually RARE and EXPENSIVE, but there are other reasons that i won't waste time to name it otherwise i could wrote an essay).
to put in short words personally speaking i don't have reasons to still play this... Game... since i want to have fun and not being under pressure like if i'm actually working, it's not fun, it's not healthy and it get boring fast... i know that the experience is different for some people (when i see certain streamers for example they have ALWAYS potatoes in their game that don't even know what a loop is just to make an example... I've certain theories even about those situations, but it's offtopic) but for me it's just became stale, unfun and frustrating...
p.s: i refuse to play only survivor since pressing m1 on generators in order to escape is boring as hell and it get old FAST
Comments
Killers with 3K every match is viable too, not just Killers with 4K every match.
you know, it's funny that you think that playing killer is easy (this statement it's a hint that you aren't playing aganist decent survivors) since you think this then keep play the game, i personally won't since i'm not masochist... you are also deliberately IGNORING the points that i made, thinking that only kills matter is another problem with the mentality that the community has: i can do 0 hooks but kill everyone in the end with a single hook thanks to blood warden... this isn't a valid point since you are ignoring EVERYTHING else (gameplay wise)
Nurse and blight BARELY i repeat barely viable 😂😂😂😂that's where I stopped reading
I get why you would feel frustrated.. I get it I even feel the same way from a survivor’s pov
I know when Im playing against survivors who's better than me, which certainly I should lose.
Im not going to get 4K at all cost, 4 slowdown, tunneling, Blight to play against squads of 4 Ayrun,Zubat who are completely out skill me then beat me to dust and I make complaining.
Are the survivors are actually just decent, or they're out skill you because your MMR isnt where you should not be.
Since July, I've had a 91% kill rate.
I'd really like some of these challenging Survivors. As it stands, the game is extremely boring right now as Killer for me. I've been forced to seek out comp teams to find a consistent challenge.
Regardless, just because I'm good at Killer doesn't mean Killer needs nerfs and Survivors need buffs. Likewise, just because you're bad at Killer doesn't mean Survivors need nerfs and Killers need buffs. According to the last stats we got, Killers are doing just fine. There's a 39% escape rate at the HIGHEST MMR, where the game should be the most Survivor-sided.
You can win with every Killer against the majority of Survivors. Yes, against some Survivors (a really, really small amount) only a few Killers are viable.
If you think you go against those Survivors all the time, I have a big news for you - you are not ultra-high MMR, you are just not good at the game.
For a bad player even bad Survivors can feel strong.
I do understand where this is coming from, but the statement that "Nurse and Blight are the only two Killers that are barely viable" is laughably stupid.
Ever since I started writing down my statistics, I have won (3K/4K) 85% of my matches as Killer, I do have my off games, but Ive reached the point to where I can play as relaxed as I want because as soon as crap hits the fan I know I can just tunnel and camp my way out of it.
What's my key to success? Unpredictability, I dont run meta. Youd be surprised to see how effective running different perks can be once you know how to utilize them. E.G. Forced Penance is one of my most ran perks; Survivors can avoid it by not taking Protection Hits, which can lead to easy tunneling, likewise, if they do take Protection Hits, I can snowball easily. I always have an ace up my sleeve.
The more I read this forum, the more I start to think they barely viable if they on the map at the same time. Sadly, in my universe I cannot taste these overpowered survivors from Krypton.
Golden words. But it require some maturity and wisdom to undestand that, which usually is not an option here.
People are going to make fun of you but you're not wrong. DBD has unfair maps that make 2/31 killers viable when the survivors you play against have more than a potato between their ears.
I will remind everyone that people who play these games professionally for their job (even the ones with 7-9k hours) resort to camping/slugging/tunneling because high level survivor play is too efficient. It gets even worse vs 3-4 man SWF teams which have no limits.
-"You can win with every Killer against the majority of Survivors."
And that's why 90% of the dbd tournaments have Only Nurse and Blight and the survivors have massive perk/item restrictions. How much you wanna bet if I put together a SWF team that you can't win? Since all killers are viable you will play Doctor.
Game will be played best 2/3 on random maps (no picking). Addons will be limited (no iri, 1 max purple/green per player) and you can't run addons more than once for the 3 game set.
IF you got to play Nurse and Blight sure you might be ok... but you dont get to do that so you will get stomped.
-"the statement that "Nurse and Blight are the only two Killers that are barely viable" is laughably stupid."
-"What's my key to success? Unpredictability, I dont run meta."
You can run no perks/addons vs garbage mid tier survivors and 4k every time for like 50 games. If you do not need to run meta perks then you are playing low skill players.
So let me understand. He is bad because he wants to play with not meta killers at high MMR. Logic? If I use a bad killer vs a team doing 3 gens while I down a survivor once how is skill involved in this? Some killers don't even have an anti loop power. So NO. Not every killer is viable at high MMR.
To my understanding we have both reached that point years ago and never at the same time
Haven't we established at this point that high MMR basically doesn't exist because of low soft caps and expanding matchmaking range? I'll trust the take of the guy with the longest SWF escape streak (hens) over randoms in the forum any day of the week. I can turn on any streamer who mains killer and see that they clearly aren't going up against top of the line competition. When are we going to drop this myth that everyone at high MMR is good? High MMR is full of terrible players. The whole argument that killers aren't viable at high MMR is based on the bs argument that everyone at high MMR is as skilled as a comp player. We've got mfers on 100+ wins streaks as Onryo and Nemesis. If high MMR were as difficult as people on this forum pretend it is then we wouldn't have people like Alf with 600+ win streaks as nurse.
I always wanted to see a tournament with no restrictions. To show how broken some stuff is.
I get demolished by all kinds of killers, not just Blight and Nurse. I've had Nurses and Blights who have barely scraped a kill through, and I've had M1 killers nab 4ks when we still have 4-5 gens to go. Put enough hours into any killer and you can wipe the floor with many survivors. You're going to face challenging, coordinated survivors from time to time but that is normal, it's how the game is designed.
This is all coming from a survivor main who has had two years of experience going up against killers. If you are doing poorly on every single game then the common denominator is you. Pick one or two killers and play them consistently. It might take weeks, even months, but I guarantee you'll master those killers.
I do not get the logic of "you only face trash Survivors because your MMR is too low", if I win a majority of matches, my MMR would have a net increase over decrease, meaning that I would be a high MMR, especially with hundreds/thousands of hours in the game.
If you want me to mathematically prove if for ya, I can go right ahead. If I have 470+ matches tracked, with me having an 85% win rate (78% kill rate, keep in mind I give hatch in most of matches so it could be higher), I would have gained 7332+ Rating but lost 2068+ Rating, roughly meaning that my MMR rating is 5264+/- net gain... Keep in mind the hardcap to MMR is 3000 Rating (softcap for matchmaking is 1900), so realistically I would be within the 1900-3000 MMR range for matchmaking.
Also look at 95% of the other streamers you see play this game; Otz, Tru3, etc. They win most of their matches, but they face a wide variety of skill levels because MMR is functionally loose, at the softcap they get MMR ranges 1600-1900 for matchmaking (and so do I). Even at "top MMR", they still face awful teams from time to time, they also face extremely sweaty teams from time to time, BUT they dont face comp squads every single match like people make it out to be, and you would be lying to yourself by saying otherwise.
TLDR; MMR is a horrible system that does not probably quantify skill, therefore using it as a metric to justify someone's skill (or lack there of) is null and void. It should not be used to credit people nor discredit people.
I get my share of sweaty matches, I get my share of relaxed matches, but overall you need to stop making excuses for yourself and accept that you lose sometimes (which is what Ive taken the time to do, it's why Ive been collecting data and trying to improve). Maybe you can actually use the time to improve with certain Killers, Ive been learning how to flick Pyramid Head's power, as well as using Lo-Pro on Billy to do 90*/135* flick turns, maybe you can learn something new or practice a new skill/trick?
I'm done with comments like "every killer is viable vs. most survivors". What it actually means is, if you don't play Blight or Nurse you need to tunnel and/or use loads of gen defense. If not, the survs you verse just aren't that good. When i play killer i want to have fun. Seeing 3,4 medkits or toolboxes in the lobby already + potential map offerings is the opposite of fun. The point isn't that i might still get 3 kills, it just feels forced and isn't fun for survs aswell. That's why MMR was such a bad idea. It forces both sides to use the strongest things and tactics when they at least want to compete.
Because every game of DBD is a SWF comp squad vs. a newborn baby playing perkless add-onless Wraith?
Comp DBD may as well be a separate game mode for all intents and purposes. The vast majority of survivors are solo. There is great disparity in the skill levels of players. If someone is losing all their games, that's their problem, and will eventually be moved to their appropriate MMR. If they still can't win any games after that, then it's literally a skill issue.
At whatever MMR I'm at, I've gotten 4Ks with Freddy, I've gotten 1Ks with Blight, and vice versa. People need to stop crying that they lost because of the maps every time they lose, because it really makes it harder for the devs to get good feedback on what to change about the actually problematic maps, like Cowshed having a ton of ridiculously strong pallets or Mother's Dwelling being the size of a galaxy.
Sometimes you just lose because you're not as good as your opponents, and that's okay. Just move on to the next game, or take a break from DBD if you're burnt out to the point that you're ranting about Nurse and Blight being the only viable killers in a regular casual game of DBD.
How can you consistently have these bad takes? Not even a broken clock is wrong this much
Not to mention the game is so balanced for all killers that in "comp tournaments" (roflmao) there are always rules like: not allowed perks, add ons and so on...
New and reworked maps hare becoming so safe it is literally possible to keep the killer busy just pre dropping pallets like there's no tomorrow. The borgo is the perfect example. Safe pallet after a safe pallet after a safe window.
Then survivors cry about killers camping and tunneling. Do they really think tunneling and camping is fun? It's just the only way to have a chance to win because killers have no time to face 4 survivors all together. Killers need to face 3 survivors if they want to keep up with gen speed.
Whats your opinion on buffing a character so that said character can compete with other characters versus buffing a character so noobs feel confortable on said character despite good players dominating with that character?
That said us vs them us vs them: why dont survivors just stop going for escapes and play for fun? Whys it so important that they escape? Just give up and let the killer get you!!!!!! - thats what the "dont go for 4k"-crowd sounds like.
Edit : ignore my rambling.
There already was one.
Killers did fine, they averaged out at 2.16 Kills. I think @zarr did a wonderful analysis of it.
Even with the game at its most Survivor-sided, 4-man comp SWF with 4 OLD DH's, BNPs, Green Medkits with Styptics or Syringes; Killers did well.
Every single time someone posts about killers being crap and not fun to play all the usual comments come out about how wonderful you are and how bad the op is.
If you can't offer something constructive don't say anything.
And don't tell someone to get better at the game when it's you that needs to get better at being a decent person.
-"The vast majority of survivors are solo."
The devs gave us stats saying that is not true. More than 50% of all games are played in a swf of some kind. And that was before tunneling/camping/slugging got real bad; most of my friends only play in a SWF.
-"Sometimes you just lose because you're not as good as your opponents, and that's okay"
DBD has god pallets that turn the killer's skill off. Can you imagine if killer had the same thing? Imagine for example if killers stopped having a terror radius for anyone in a SWF.
DBD has maps that are massively survivor sided; where is the 76% kill rate map? That was something we had in 2016 and now Shelter woods is massively survivor sided. Look at all the most recent maps : Shelter woods rework, Red Forest Rework, Knight map, Garden of Joy - all of those maps are so broken.
There's about 1 fair map for killer : Wreckers yard.
I think you are just bad at playing killer.
Improve yourself (aka git gud)
Your first point is patently false, but the source from BHVR on solos vs. swf players was from quite a while ago, so I don't know where to find it.
Your second point shows that you're not taking macro level play and game sense into consideration as part of survivors' skill is to waste killers' time at those strong tiles, while the killer needs to make a skill based judgement call on whether they should commit or drop chase and find a survivor in a weaker area.
Also, it's kinda funny that you didn't mention the map that, according to the last time we got map stats, had the highest kill rate as "fair" for killer.
No that’s wrong. Your numbers for SWF are off. The stats BHVR released last year had like 60% of survivors as solo and of the remaining 40% over 50% of that was duo, then around 20-30% were 3-man, with less than 15% were full 4-man SWF. 4-man were the rarest SWF and duos were most common, but at the end of the day the stats showed that most survivors were solo queue.
Nope. When you look at the combined aggregate of 2 man swf, 3 man swf and 4 man swf it was more than 50% of the player base.
The way they presented the data was misleading. This is no surprise because their data collection/analysis has always been "Sus".
This is not my post but this is straight off their numbers.
DBD-Tournaments have nothing to do with Public Games. Bringing them up is not really an argument.
First of all, high MMR is a Joke. We already know what range you get when you are at "high MMR", it is pretty much random to ensure that queue times dont go overboard.
Second, no, I am saying that he is probably not good because he is losing a lot. But since MMR (and because it is hidden) people really try to think that they are on some giga-MMR where they only get the best Survivors and THIS is the reason why they lose. But it really isnt.
The worst part of this community is that people really almost never have the thought that they might not have played that well during that game. No, it is always something the other side did.
My god "Barely viable". Stop being so dramatic 😂
-"DBD-Tournaments have nothing to do with Public Games. Bringing them up is not really an argument."
When you look at high level play there are 2 viable killers across all maps that can handle SWF. That's relevant for public matches because unlike a tournament you can play multiple copies of perks/items/perks.
In other words : SWF might be fair if you were not allowed to repeat perks/charactes/items/offerings.
SWF breaks the game because overall the number of pallets/size of maps/strength of loops only works when you are bad at survivor. If you play meta Nurse/Blight you can overcome most teams/obstacles.
Another way to say this would be : if not playing Blight/Nurse then you should have the option to only play against solo players. Alternatively they could make the game fair for all killers.
So, if there was a tournament with no restrictions, what would you expect to happen?
About your last point regarding the streamers you watch always having only potatoes in their games: the survivors they are going against are made to look like potatoes by the streamer himself/herself.
No doubt when you watch the streamer who is considered really good at killer you think "hey this looks really easy, I can do that."
It looks easy because of their experience and skill. They make it look easy. So, even when they are facing the exact same skill level of opponents that you are (which is absolutely true - they are, if you are as good as you think), it looks like most of their opponents just aren't very good.
I say this as a player with thousands and thousands of hours in the game. You are very, very wrong with this entire post. If you aren't having fun with the game, that's fine. Take a break. No big deal. But the killer role is in such a great spot right now.
I win the majority of my games while never camping or tunneling and only going for 12 hooks. If I included camping/tunneling at optimal times in my gameplay, "losing" would be a rarity. This is the reality for really good killer players in the game right now.
completely same. playing pubs as killer now is just not fun due to how inexperienced the survivors that im getting are. i dont wanna preach to the choir and blame the implementation of mmr/the new matchmaking system but i never had trouble finding challenging and competitive matches with the old matchmaking system
The problem is that most players aren’t high level, and most players aren’t overperforming with Nurse, especially after her overtuned new chase music happened.
We really should be saying “Blight and Wesker”, because for most of the playerbase, those are the popular viable killers that have good win rates.
"About your last point regarding the streamers you watch always having only potatoes in their games"
Check carefully what I said again - you're mixing my sentences/thoughts together.
-"But the killer role is in such a great spot right now."
Why would you say this? You think it's good gameplay that most of the killers are forced to play a tunnel/3 gen strategy or gtfo on every map? Most survivors hate playing against it. Most people playing killer don't want to have to tunnel to have a chance to win against gen tunneling.
-"I win the majority of my games while never camping or tunneling and only going for 12 hooks."
Why don't you show me some riveting games where you outplayed some top notch survivors while using a killer at least on the "B list" with weak addons (doctor, Pig, Legion, etc). I can log onto my brother's account and win every game with no perks/addons on Trapper because every round would be against complete noobs. It's not a big deal if you win unless you consider who you are winning against and what it required for you to win. People often miss this point when they say : well I played nurse with best everything and won 10/10 games tonight.
With that though in mind - one of the games I played today was against a 3 man SWF and a random. I used brown+yellow offerings and a map cancel offering as Nemesis (because it was 100% a 3 man swf if not a "sneaky" 4 man with one player on console). One player was just shy of 9000 hours, another was private and the third was about 3000 hours.
Their perks and items were much stronger than mine because I was playing a "fun" round. They were good loopers but I play Nemesis often and I hard countered what they wanted to do. Almost all of my whip attacks connected and when I did miss it was because T1 is incredibly easy to dodge if you're not a potato.
Somehow the SWF claimed victory in the end game chat because 1 played escaped through the door. I feel like you're the type to say : well you won so killer must be fine.
What I'm getting around to is that the best Nemesis or Doctor in the world is just going to look pathetic next to an "average" blight. That is foolish from a development standpoint. There should be no more than a 15% difference in power between the best killer and the worst killer. It's almost as if you are going into a fight and your options are : fist, rock, spear, flintlock pistol, glock 9mm, Uzi and Spectre Gunship. Why would you ever pick fist when Spectre Gunship exists? The sensible answer would be because fist can only play the fair killer maps and can't play against SWF.
-"I say this as a player with thousands and thousands of hours in the game."
And the way you talk about game balance makes it sound like you only have hundreds of hours in killer. I have been playing since 2016 so my hour count is pretty high as well. I have spent time equal to my hours played watching streamers to be on top of my game. When I watch Otz or truetalent play Nemesis I hear them say : "why didn't that hit," and I know the answer. I see them go for whips that are ambitious to say the least.
You can be sure they have better mindgame mouseroll moves but I can mechanically play Nemesis better than either of them; to be fair they can probably play the other 30 killers better than I do.
I expect that a majority of the killer cast would be completely unplayable. Let's say someone picked Doctor for example; people are likely to laugh because you even tried to bring doctor. And then when you get utterly stomped that game will serve as a reminder forever as to why nobody has ever brought doctor to an "everything goes" arena.
There was one a little over a year ago when Artist came out, no add on, killer or item restrictions. Only thing that was preset was the map.
average killrate was something like 2.16 I believe. In the majority of cases it was a complete stomp from one side or the other since each team would try to guess what the other side was doing. Youd think all youd see is Nurse, Blight or Spirit but other killers did make appearances, including Artist who was the most recent killer at the time and they did end up getting a 4k
Here's a link.
When both sides bring meta, the game is pretty balanced. This was when Survivors were in a much stronger state as well.
Basically what Depip did, but during that time we didn't have SBMM so many Twitchy/YT dismissed it.
I did find it ironic that after the first iteration of SBMM those same people started to complain about sweaty matches every game.
IIRC, time before last when stats were released, Doctor was top performing killer at all ranks.
New Red Forest is Nightmare. Connect strong pallet and window.
Forgive me for saying this but if you seriously think it's not possible to win with anyone else from the roster and that Blight/Nurse are "just barely viable" then there must be some serious jumps in logic to arrive at that conclusion.
I regularly play M1 only killers with minimal slowdown perks and I can win pretty regularly and failing that - even in my worst games I can pull a 2k out of it. A 2k isn't a loss nor a win. I also regularly lose to M1 killers while playing Survivor as well while having thousands of hours
I get that sometimes, the matches you play make you feel hopeless and powerless. I'm not saying feeling that way is invalid - but to say only Nurse/Blight is viable is just plain incorrect.
Most of the answers here show how much arrogant and blunt is the community of dbd: you are judging a player WITHOUT even seeing the matches that I did... Another reason to ignore people who don't even bother to have a civil chat (I appreciate the FEW people in this thread who are trying to explain their point of view without being pricks tho)
Another funny thing that I found funny is that the killer is EXPECTED to do ALWAYS well for the community's standards, no matter what the survivors are, no matter the addons/items/perks/offerings used, the killer MUST always do at least a 2k because muh stats (which btw I don't even took those into the equation since they are FLAWED and don't take into account how the match is played)
Holy hyperbole batman.
ALL killers are perfectly viable, I still win and lose with most of the killers I play, and that includes the likes of Ghostface and Pig.
Just because you don't win every game doesn't mean a killer is not viable.
There's a reason if certain perks/items/addons/maps are forbidden in those "tournaments"... The game isn't balanced around that level of bs... Which brings us the hilarious fact that "comp" dbd is more balanced (and probably even funnier) than pub matches for that reason alone...
Interesting. I must have missed that.
Oh yeah depip. I don´t know if they attempted something after sbmmr was launched. I´ve only seen Otz play with 3 other streamers on fresh accounts.