This forced to play is for the birds.
The devs forcing survivors to stay on the hook all match is awful. Being held hostage is crap unplayable matches is mind blowing to me.
I had a match where nobody was doing gens except me, and we were going against a gen regression stealth pig. Obviously piggy had a particular playstyle she was doing.
Never committed to chase hardly and defended gens and hid alot. I got 2 gens done myself while others messed around and the match dragged for like 10 minutes.
I got hooked finally bc piggy committed to me and we had a good chase, and once igot hooked and saw the other 3 were in lockers I wanted to go.
I sat there.... THE ENTIRE TIME.... bc god forbid i struggle and go next. None of them saved me. I was being held hostage on the hook by the devs. I know they didn't intend this.... but its not working.
Miserable. We should have the right to opt out of bogus matches. At least with a DC we have bots. But sometimes dying on hook is the better choice when you play with boneheads. You all know these matches.
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While it's true changes have been made to help Solo Q, said changes have not made SWF's more broken lol if anything they've been slowly reducing the disparity and it's showing rn that survivor is not in a great place over all on the casual side of things.
Not every SWF is some esports competing for wendy's gift card squadrons.
Lol. I hate this argument. "Some swf's play poorly, so the role isn't actually OP."
So because the top 1% of the top 1% are gods among men the rest of the people playing with their friends are magically in the same bracket and deserve to get the same treatment?
It works when discussing killer so why shouldnt survivors be scrutinized the same way?
Because Killer > solo survivors in every single instance. Its not even a valid comparison. You don't balance for the top 1%, you balance for the majority. And the majority isn't SWF sweat squads,
This is the main reason I say equity kills asymmetrical games. They always suffer when everyone has a fair shot.
Also why I'm not too convinced Phase 2 is gonna be noteworthy. We'll see but… the track record doesn't look too good.
Because the disparity is too strong. The stats show that while some SWFs can be very strong, most aren't. Meanwhile, while some Killers can be incredibly weak, most aren't.
I think this is a PVP game. I’m honestly not one for doom posting but I genuinely believe this would kill the game.
Here’s why:
The bounds will keep getting pushed in a voting system there is in no sense a way a killer can play a full match against players in this scenario. Considering with how much dcing and going next was prevalent I don’t think it ends well for them(killers).
I am all for making the survivor experience better. I just don’t believe this in any fashion is the way to do it. With that established, then killers are going to push more for just being able to give up when they’re not winning. This then and in turn creates a cycle where everyone is just giving up. All because “they’re not winning” survivors aren’t playing a full match and winning, killers aren’t playing a full match and winning.
Let’s say they just keep adding in bots for that, it’s no longer a real PvP game and the game is dead. The game is currently killer sided by design unless you’re a survivor god, that’s just how it is, asymmetrical.
I think a voting system would absolutely ruin this game, and honestly if you want games like that this is probably not the game for you. It will turn this game into an absolute joke. “lol I don’t like this next “ any time anyone is winning “lol next enjoy your bots x main” There is no game with introducing a voting system in any way including giving killer equality in it.
It is beyond me why people can’t just take their L.
What do you think can make the survivor experience better?
Most killers are pretty weak actually. Why do you think you encounter the same damn killers over and over and over again?
I agree and disagree. Survivors who quit ruin the game for the rest. They suck. But if don't want to be in the game and DC is the only way left out every moment the game drags on is a higher chance you will choose a different game in thw future. I think the idea was good but the actual reality is not great for the game
It depends on region and bracket. I get a lot of stealth killers, which doesn't seem to happen everywhere. Kill rates are unreliable as always, but they do paint a picture that every Killer is able to have more success killing than Survivors do escaping.
Lol. Look at this gaslighting. Pretending like it's only the top 1%. It's like 20-30% of my games.
Bad news then. Unless they've massively tightened matchmaking, which I doubt, you don't play against the top 1% in 30% of your games.
It took me multiple days and/or WEEKS to find decent games against quality opponents. Just because you think they are the top .001% doesn't mean they are.
Yes, Pulsar. We get it. You're a god-tier killer with 8 billion hours that can go on a 2000+ 4k winstreak with a perkless Skull Merchant with both hands tied behind your back while blindfolded. The game is very, very easy for a killer of your caliber and the rest of us lowly peasants just need to get on your level.
Also… you should read what I wrote again. I said that they're NOT the top 1%. I said that 20-30% of my games are against good players, usually in 3-4 man groups. I was disputing what the other person said when they said, "So because the top 1% of the top 1% are gods among men the rest of the people playing with their friends are magically in the same bracket and deserve to get the same treatment?" They were implying that only 1% of survivors who play in groups are good. I was saying that it's a lot more than that.
Really? Then why are high tier players consistently the same 10 killers...
Now that you mention it, I did do a perkless Legion winstreak back in the day…
How are you able to accurately discern who is in a SWF and how many of them are in it? Do you have some kind of software? Or is this just another one of those, "I feel like there in a SWF because of X" kind of things?
Because let me tell you, if what you are saying is true and those players are genuinely of a high caliber, then it becomes harder to use those forms of discernment.
Easy example? In most brackets of play. SWF's usually have good hook rotations. They've got someone on a gen, someone distracting the Killer and someone going for save. Consistent rotation is a pretty good way to determine if players are together or not. However, really good players will just kind of do that, no comms required.
I would say, following your clarification, that I would lean more towards their line of thinking. It takes a very good SWF to genuinely break the game, barring skill issues of course, which are a lot of times really matchmaking issues, so it's hardly the poor person's fault who got matched against a 15K hour god squad.
so like everyone outside of high B and up is like chopped liver?
You don't learn by playing lol. You learn by watching otz
Complimentary builds or actions that almost require communication. If I'm getting 3 hook offerings and sabo toolboxes, I'm assuming it's a squad. Or there's the old, "Ace just flew out of nowhere at the perfect place at the perfect time to tank a hit during the second chase of the game." Solo Queue doesn't do that. They sometimes try to do it for someone on death hook, but not for someone on a fresh chase.
SWFs and Solo Queue play differently. Pretending otherwise is dishonest.
Three hook offerings is a fair assessment, I think.
Taking hits to delay the first down as much as humanely possible is pretty standard operating procedure for high-skilled players. I would say it's plausible to use that as an indicator, but I would say it's more accurate in more average skill brackets. Normal players won't do that.
Some SWF's and Solo Q play differently. Clearly, not enough to affect the KR's significantly, but there are more competitive SWF's, just as there are more competitive Solo's.
I have never, not once, in my time playing DBD, had a random survivor come flying in out of nowhere to take a hit for me unless I was on death hook getting tunneled.
I have, it's actually how I met one of my friends! I was…not happy since he sandbagged me at a pallet. He did fly in to try to take the hit at 5 gens but just ended up getting my killed at Shack with a Bubba…in like 2018.
But apparently it's rare enough to be remembered and remarked upon. That's my point. If I have a group of survivors that are consistently taking hits for each other, I'm going to assume they're in a group. That may not be 100% always correct, but it's a pretty safe assumption.
I mean, it's rare and remembered because we became friends, not because that was the only incident lol
I'm not saying it's the only incident. I'm saying that it's extremely rare. You know what, nevermind. This conversation is pointless.
And I'm saying that if hit tanking is the sort of metrics we're going off of, that casts some doubt upon your claims, which were dubious to begin with.
My point is, you don't know. Not sure it really makes a difference though ultimately, if you feel frustrated and maybe fatigued by having these experiences; then maybe it's time for a break?
Did I say, "if a single person takes a hit for someone, I assume it's a 4 man god swf!" Or did I say, "If I have a group of survivors that are consistently taking hits for each other, I'm going to assume they're in a group. That may not be 100% always correct, but it's a pretty safe assumption." That's right, I said the second one.
This is a common trend with you, I've noticed. You consistently strawman other people's arguments, bring up the 1% exceptions as if they're statistically relevant, then say condescending things like, "maybe it's time for you to take a break." You're unwilling to look past your own preconceived notions to the point that you either don't read the posts that you respond to or you just blatantly and intentionally misrepresent them in order to make them easier to argue against. Either way, continuing this is pointless because it's impossible to have a discussion with someone who lacks intellectual honesty.
What is actually funny, is that the anti go next just made killer tunnel and camp more than ever, sooo yeah, keep ######### the soloq
John psycho-analysist over here lol
If you look at what I said in my reply which was, "And I'm saying that if hit tanking is the sort of metrics…". I am trying to tell you to take a step back and breathe. You don't know who is in a SWF because BHVR doesn't want you to know. Every metric you could use to determine if they are a SWF can occur "naturally", you admit as much. You just want them to be a SWF because it fits your ideas better.
If you can believe it, I was once in the exact same spot. Trying to discern who was a SWF and who wasn't, who I could expect to employ cheating tactics (my words, not yours) and who was playing the game as it was meant to be played.
Ultimately, it got to a point where I was checking profiles and friend's lists prior to the match to determine who was playing together and who was okay. I had come to blame all of my losses on SWF players and how they broke the rules of the game.
What I came to realize, eventually, is that it didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It mattered to me, of course, but it wouldn't really change anything in the match I was about to play. Perhaps that knowledge gave me an advantage, but it also stressed me out, made me play extremely tightly and it just wasn't fun.
Everything a SWF can do; a Solo Team can also do. The true strength of SWF isn't even communication, it's pre-selection. Being able to pre-screen and pre-vet your teammates removes the randomness of Solo Q. All this does is make it so that good SWF's are more common than good Solo Q teams, which are few and far between.
Thirty percent is probably too high of a number, I'd say more than likely other factors play into that, at that percentage point. I'd say good SWF teams make up, perhaps, ten percent of the total population of SWF's and even then, that fluctuates based on builds and attitudes. Ideally, we'd like good SWF's to go against equally good Killer players, who have the same mindset as them, but MMR is nothing if not worthless and it's impossible to gauge attitudes.
I'm not psycho-analyzing. I didn't postulate on why you strawman, only pointed out that you do.
Possible doesn't mean probable or even plausible. That's the point that you keep missing.
And, no, one of the most powerful things SWFs do is warn each other where the killer is and where they are going. Communicating their own locations and the killer's location is absolutely powerful. Pretending like it's not is dishonest. A heads up that "killer is heading to you, Jim," is the difference between a surprise hit and 5 seconds of pre-running. Sure, technically, a survivor can pre-run at anytime. They may even do so at the perfect time by happenstance. However, a swf can work the gen even within the TR and get a heads up the moment the killer starts to break chase and will start pre-running at the perfect time every time.
That's only one example, but I'm sure you can extrapolate from there. Comms are very, very powerful tools. They're not quite as powerful as permanent aura reading, but they're pretty close.
And that is the difference, right there. You completely discount pre-selection.
Comms are nice, sure. Powerful in the right hands, to be certain. Let me pose a question. If having comms is so powerful, why is SWF not escaping more? Either having comms is not as powerful as you say, or the people who use them effectively don't contribute enough to the escape rates.
As to your example, this is true. It's also only really a factor in 4-man SWFs.
I think you overestimate comms and underestimate pre-determined teammates. Realistically, whether for competitive purposes or fun purposes, that is what draws SWFs together, the ability to play with pre-selected teammates (friends).
Honestly? I have no real evidence to back it up, and no real reason to think this besides a gut feeling and circumstantial logic. I suspect that BHVR doesn't always give us accurate statistics.
First of all, it would be in their best interests to not give us accurate statistics. Stats are used by the community in pretty much every debate on every social media outlet. If something like SWFs DID have a huge statistical advantage… would they admit it? It's well known that survivors spend more money on cosmetics and stuff than killers. Nerfing swfs may damage BHVR's bottom line.
Secondly, something really stood out to me the other day when BHVR announced that the anti-go next had zero impact on kill rates. That makes no sense. Do you mean to tell me that getting rid of the survivor's ability to throw the game because they don't like Legion had zero effect on kill rates? It would have been one thing if they had said, "it has had a small, but not concerning" effect on kill rates. But Mandy came out and said, "none." I don't know about you, but I can't tell you the number of games, prior to go-next prevention, that a quick down early in the game turned into someone killing themselves on hook and throwing the match. It was pretty consistent. Not every game, but at least one out of four or five. Getting rid of that has had ZERO effect on kill rates? That doesn't add up. Especially since it flies in the face of my own personal experience, the collective experience of the community, and community gathered statistics.
I guess the real test for my theory will be how BHVR reports the kill rate statistics after they add anti-tunnel/camp/slug. Will they admit that kill rates are free-falling, or will they come out and say, "everything is fine."
Because I think that you and I can both agree that a LOT of killers use tunneling as a crutch to clutch out a LOT of their matches.
It would make less sense to lie about it, due to internal leaks. Hackers have access to a ton of internal information, or at least had access, so they'd be running a big risk. It'd make more sense, if that were the case, for them to simply not post Kill Rates anymore.
I would agree that the second part does not pass the smell test, as it were. Unless they weren't counting games with an early suicide, but even then.
They were playing the 1V1V1V1V1 that that game came out as…
But get you a 2 man (or more) and it'll be different
They have been nerfing survivors and constantly buffing killers for like 9 years non-stop. Anti-camp? More like stand a few more meters away. I don't know how you could be so disconnected from the game.
…..so we're confused here, having it impossible for Bubba, aka the Lawnmower of survivors, to face-camp people and guarantee death…is a buff the killers?…Thats just the top of our heads example…
if by constantly nerfing survivors you mean nerfs to perks such as OG DS, Balanced Landing and DS then yes, these nerfs were needed. Like for Nurse's recharge and blink distance add-ons? You didn't provide any examples of major survivor nerfs becouse well, Behaviour didn't nerf survivors. So you are either salty, don't play killer or are bias towards the survivor side. Either way you are wrong :)
Sure is. I just had a game against a really bad hag that downed someone 10 seconds into the match and hooked them in basement, which I was nearby. She ofc placed down every trap she could to camp basement so I stayed and was going to wipe them away and rescue except that the other Surv decided to take chase with the hag around the basement. The dude gets to 2nd stage because the one Surv won't ######### off from chase around the shack, then last couple seconds finally leaves and takes hag with them.
I then go to the basement and wipe away 3 traps and she ofc comes to camp the last couple seconds so I just rush to unhook and tanked a hit from the last remaining trap down there and hook traded. Fine whatever, I'll hook trade, except that I then watched as no one even attempted to save me, the same dude who was running around shack prior, was running around it again with no one even doing gens. All 3 of them were just hovering around shack doing literally nothing. I sat there the entire hook stages. I stayed till endgame to tell them how trash they all are, which ofc they then just said that I was awful because I had 4k points, like yea no #########, I spent my entire match in the basement after one unhook that could have happened sooner if the other teammates weren't idiots. Even the guy who got to 2nd stage blamed it on me and didn't say a peep about the one player who was running around shack for minutes.
To remove player agency in DBD, a game that lacks any sort of actual MMR, is astounding. If players want to leave a match, let them leave. There shouldn't even be DC penalties beyond a few minutes at max, there's bots, lets these toxic players play with bots, I bet they'd change their gameplay extra quick when they stop interacting with other humans.
Trapping players into matches with other toxic players, a sure way to kill your game in the long run.
How did the hag even get into a CHASE that fast? Game loads, she books it straight to the closest survivor in all her 4.4 speed glory without even taking time to place traps, got in a chase AND hit them twice in 10 seconds? I feel like you mightve had a speed hacker if this is true.
The only person disconnected from the game here is the one who believes that survivors literally never escape. Why do you even play the game if you hate it so much?
You know what's even more devious about all these harsh DC penalty/forced on hook changes?
The Timer doesn't start until you try to click play on another game.
I'd love to hear this mentality applied to the segment of the killer community that thinks the definition of facing adversity is losing 1/100 Blight matches. Really seems like the expectation of overcoming challenges only applied to one side.
wydm? Killers that would dc when the exit gates are powered or a chase that didn’t go their way are eating the penalties now too, the system isn’t biased. They just never had the luxury of going next on hook bc there’s no option like that for killer other than the leave button. Seems balanced now to me. Killers catch heat on here all the time so idk what you’re talking about.
No you missed the point entirely. There is a large segment of killer players that do nothing but "winstreak" with the most broken killers and builds, far beyond what any swf achieves. Yet the 97th time I load in to see lethal pursuer blight with double speed add ons, neon filters, and a hand cam rushing to down someone 20 seconds into the match I'm supposed to think "gee I wonder what went wrong. better practice because i'm sure the 98th time will be different! Let me just play guess the coin toss correctly 5 times every 10 seconds or die again".
Map tiles, survivor perks, and items get nuked based on whatever the top percentage of swfs can achieve. That's why even the best swfs can't get anywhere near the level of winstreaks of above average killer players. Survivor skill ceiling has been nerfed drastically. Yet we can't balance any of the killers that have been completely busted at the high end for YEARS. From the last stat release we got, high mmr 4 man swfs still weren't even escaping half the time. How is it fair in any way for killers to be winning hundreds of matches in a row on one side vs the best a good survivor team can manage is 50/50?
Apparently if your crap att internet cuts off, and you force dc from the game bc of it you also get a penalty.... thats cool....
The goal is 60/40 so I mean they’re already over performing according to that marker. As far as the nurse/blight I assume they’re looking at averages no clue. You’ll have to ask the devs.
I believe the guy was baiting her right from the start, it was a coldwind map so really not that big and he ran into the middle of it immediately and then immediately went down. How he went down, I honestly have no clue. What was even worse was after she hooked and I lingered to get the save, the other guy started baiting a chase around the shack with her and about 15 seconds into it, the 4th teammate broke haunted grounds. So there was no way for me to try and get down there with all those traps or I'd be on hook basement too.