yay guys, more anti-killer changes coming soon
first of all, YES the anti-slug surrender option is fine and cool. not gonna talk about that.
the roadmap has another segment in phase two which talks about "anti tunneling and anti camping"
and I wonder, when will the devs get the message that killers are doing these things because the whole "play nice go for multiple people" idea has been probably the most bullshit thing in the history of this game?
killer literally does not have the ability to do that against any competent team because KEEPING THE GAME A 1V4 MAKES THE GENS FLY. has nothing to do with skill, despite what many community members will tell you.
also yeah, keep nerfing tunnel/camp because we haven't been doing that every update. survivors get new meta perks to use against it nearly every chapter along with basekit features to counter it, guess it is still not enough.
we've nerfed nearly every slowdown perk the killer has and the expectation is for them to play even NICER.
its also only seen as a problem when the killers go for their objective quickly, not the survivors of course. where's my "anti-genrush"? oh wait "genrush" is fine because that's just the survivors doing their objective right, but when the killer does the same without bending their back over to make the match "fun" for everyone else then they're an evil toxic tunneler and deserve to be punished with EVEN MORE.
I see nothing on this roadmap hinting at buffs for play styles that are "healthy" such as spreading hooks around and going for multiple chases. If that's the way they want people to play the game then BUFF THOSE STRATEGIES, stop NERFING the other strats that people use because the first one is terrible.
killers try to play nice, every gen slowdown which allowed this to an extent is nerfed. killers tunnel/slug because the "playing nice" strategy sucks, we introduce 70 things which impede them from doing that. killers dont wanna even hook anymore because it enables like 20 different survivor meta perks? yeah, lets nerf that too. if you want us to behave in a certain way then maybe start giving the carrot instead of relentless beatings with the stick.
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Killer mains will continue to find ways around these changes and make the game more miserable for survivors.
Gen rush because "gen perks nerfed to the ground" - ok tunnel one out
Anti-tunnel perks - just start slugging
Go next epidemic - just slug more
Can't camp/slug/tunnel efficiently - __________ (we will see)
Maybe stop playing like every game is a competitive game because killers try harder so survivors have to try harder so killers have to try harder so on and so forth and here we are.
so you hit the survivor off hook to put them in deep wound, and now what do they have for "second chances"? nerfed DS, where vs half the roster distance means nothing and you're immediately injured and in chase again?
learn to apply pressure. you don't need someone on hook to apply it. bring aura reading perks and stealth perks to catch survivors off guard. avoid chases in hard looping areas. patrol gens… when killers decide to not improve or bring perks to help them in the areas they lack and just bring gen regression they start to indulge in cheesy strategies like tunneling and slugging. which makes BHVR buff killers individually so they can end chases quicker. but killer players do not change their way of playing after buffs, instead they double down on those strategies because they are now easier to do. the same would happen if they "nerf gens".
so the only thing left is punishing players trying to use those strategies.
besides background player, everything else is "skill issue". the best way to not be affected by anti-tunnel and anti-camp perks is… not tunneling and not camping.
”just apply pressure” they say as every method killers have to apply pressure gets nerfed and removed over and over and over
Those of us killers playing for 12 hooks all along, couldn't be happier.
Half the roster you mean nurse blight and wesker?
I'm assuming a form of basekit DS. It's the only deterrence to tunnelling that will work. Maybe even a 2 second stun basekit with DS as a perk adding 2 seconds. And maybe a DS rework where it will remove all charges from the killer power if possible as an additional deterrence (Nurse wouldnt be able to double blink right after a DS and Blight wont be able to dash. Slinger, Clown, Huntress and Trickster would need to reload, that kinda stuff). It wouldnt really interfere with tunnelling too much, but it would be really annoying for the killer to tunnel to the point that its better to just wait for their target to touch a gen first.
Anti-camp would probably have an extended 8-16 meters to prevent people from cheesing it, or they would disable killer powers in general for a certain amount of time if they are within the range of a freshly unhooked survivor. (Hag, Bubba, Trapper, Trickster and Twins are 3 killers that can just wait right outside the anti-camp range and still eat through basekit bt as if it was a cookie). That wouldnt apply once all gens are gone so those killers can still guarantee a kill, they just no longer can guarantee trading hookstates. This would obviously have to come with something like basekit 10% pain res on all hooks when survivors are hooked for the first time.
Anti-slug will hopefully just be tenacity basekit (crawl and recover at the same time, and maybe a bit more crawlspeed) and a way for 2 slugged survivors to pick each other up as a deterrence for mass slugging. That's all slugging genuinely needs in the current meta. Killers would be forced to hook or risk losing all pressure.
Another really good anti-tunnel mechanic would to simply be disabling gen regression/gen blocking perks once 1 survivor dies, while boosting their powers by 25%-50%. The number 1 issue I have with Pain Res and Grim Embrace is that a killer could tunnel out a survivor at 4 gens, and still proc 40 seconds of Grim Embrace. Force killers to choose between getting 40 seconds of Grim Embrace and Gen regression perks, or killing a survivor, and most would want to keep those perks as long as they can untill they feel forced to get a kill.
You cant increase gen repair time, people are already borderline ignoring gens because they are getting boring. Upping the gentimes simply means survivors quit playing and start going for other games that might be less balanced, but more fun to play. And basekit unbreakable isnt a bad idea. It really isnt.
As for the "if killers are not able to do 12 hooks, they will look for alternatives" is a lie and you know it.
Lets go back to 2-3 years ago. Killers had a killrate of about 55-60% in general, with some killers like Trapper and Myers barely touching 49%. Gen regression perks were WORSE, survivor perks and items were BETTER, gen spawns and tile spawns were more SURVIVOR favoured. DS was stronger, Unbreakable was stronger. Yet, killers rarely tunnelled unless it was top 1% players.
Gentimes have increased by 10 seconds. All killer actions have been reduced by 10%. Tiles have been rebalanced. Maps have been made smaller. Toolboxes have been adjusted. Killers have been buffed across the board. Survivor perks have been mostly nerfed, and those that recieved buffs are still weaker than the strongest perks. Everytime I play killer and just hook for the sake of hooking, I get 3k's more easily than compared to 2 years ago.
Aka, hooking has been made easier, yet killers have increased slugging and tunnelling. Why? Because that too, has been made easier. Killers dont tunnel because they have to, they tunnel because they can. Killers dont slug because they have to, they do so because they can. Basekit unbreakable will do nothing except deter slugging in the current meta. The only thing you dont want it to do is infinite pickups, so just give 1 pickup per hookstate remaining. If a survivor hasnt been hooked, 3 pickups. If they have been hooked twice, 1 pickup. Easy counter is to simply hook them.
Why are killer so gloom and doom? Anti-slug...survivors can die sooner. Anti-3 gen... the gen has to be regressed 8x! Anti-face camp is just that. You can still camp, just not in their face. Anti-tunnel..can you count to 10? Awesome!
Let's be real anti-camp will be the same, just nerfed to 8 meters, and we'll just call it anti camp, because why not. And anti-tunnel will be nerfed to 5 seconds.
Killers, rest assured that these changes will be nothing but buffs to you.
Who is to say Killer won't get something out of Anti-slug and Tunnel? Granted the track history these could be all the better for Killer.
I predict they'll increase the hook camping distance for killers with ranged attacks and add a HUD symbol for the camping bar to help solo queue players.
Giving Trapper a digging bar weapon customization would significantly help with tunneling.
The skill level of the average survivor player has gone up exponentially. If you took the multi thousand hour survivors how they play today and time traveled them to old DbD the killers would never win
it took them 5 years to nerf ruin noed also
Having basekit corrupt intervention pretty much because all of the survivors spawn together doesnt sound like its going to be too bad for killers? Theres things on both sides, the games gonna change that's what they are telling you here. Not that all killers are going to be nerfed because the game is too killer sided.
And yet, killers who have much more potential, havent gained skill much. Because they didnt need to, because they could rely on slugging and tunnelling instead of being forced to get better.
If you placed modern killers to old DBD, those survivors would never win either. I mean, just patch 1.4. Grab Billy, get a mori easily as its his only iridescent thing he can get from the bloodweb (especially since prestige 3 increases the rate of iridescents). Grab Insidious to prevent BT from happening. Grab Dying Light, Thanatophobia(as that worked with dead survivors too back then) and Tinkerer(cus that increases charge speed). Wait for the random Laurie to unhook. M1 the unhooked survivor and mori them. Now you have a permanent 75% gen progression penalty on survivors at 4 gens remaining. Congrats, now you have generators that take 5 minutes EACH to complete.
Really, modern players would wreck the opponents.
anti-camp and anti-tunnel will be buffed. In fact, I am predicting a basekit 2 second DS as thats the only real deterrence for tunnelling, with DS adding 2 seconds to the stun. And Anti-Camp to be increased to 24 meters since killers like Bubba and Trickster can just sit on the edge of anti-camp and guarantee a kill
And what would make you think that? Their idea of anti-slug is for the survivor to give up. I do not believe for 2 seconds that they will buff anything on the survivor side, it's nothing but a middle finger to survivors. Very disheartening.
If I'm right, you buy me a drink, if you're right, drinks on me. Deal?
Well, because they have to. Slugging is boring. We know that, they know that. A give-up mechanic is just a quick patch job for the time being. With the release of the FNaF community, they HAVE to fix slugging if they want to maintain at least a decent portion of that player base. If they dont fix slugging, they will have a surge of maybe 5 million players, only to lose 4.95 million players because of how boring being slugged is.
The game isnt fun for new players. Which isnt too much of an issue right now because a lot of new players play because they have friends who play the game. But a surge like FNaF? You bet they need game health updates.
Thats why I am 100% certain that the updates will be to prevent players from being longer in queue than in game, and players to be playing the game actively more than being slugged. Not because I trust BHVR wanting to please current players, but because I trust the business side of BHVR knowing for a fact that retaining FNaF players is their top priority right now and their player base have been screaming that the game isnt as enjoyable as it used to be. And if current players arent happy about the state of the game, what will those 5 million new players think? Players who have bought every FNaF game just because they liked it, even though only 12% of people actually played all the games they bought? Those are 5 million players that might be willing to buy all FNaF related skins the moment they enjoy the game. So I'm betting 5 killer skins on release (the og 4 and springtrap), 3 rare survivor skins for the survivor on release, Feng with a cosplay outfit, Sable and Mikaela with an outfit (so that people will buy those chapters too) and Maybe Legion with some animatronic outfits (like they did for silent hill, but yknow).
Thats a HUGE money maker, and what do you think rakes in the cash more? People who love playing the game with slugging that isnt boring and not being tunnelled out at 5 gens, or people who play the game for maybe an hour to find out some lore, get the feeling of the mechanics and then leave to never return because they've been slugged for 4 minutes 5 games in a row?
I'm betting that the business side of BHVR knows how much money is at stake, hence the 3 week PTB delay to make sure there are some changes that current players can give feedback on to enjoy the game more, so that the business side of BHVR can be satisfied.
I would like to know why "Gen Rushing" is Survivors completing their objective efficiently. It sounds so nice. However, when a Killer completes his objectives "efficiently", it's "camping" and "tunneling" and we're everything wrong with the game.
I mean, I'm not going to judge too harshly because we haven't seen any proposed changes, but it sounds like "anti-strategy" changes for the killer. Even the top tier killers will tell you that in the highest MMR's camping/tunneling/slugging can be necessary to slow the game down. We'll see, but as a Killer, it doesn't sound like it's going to be very "balanced".
I was referring to its first nerf where every survivor just had it active whenever they weren't exhausted and it forced the killers into mostly lose lose situations at pallets. It was definitely s tier then. You know you can make a comment that you disagree with someone without being extremely rude
good
then great, will make it literally impossible to beat those ultra high level teams in any way unless youre playing nurse and blight. I still cant believe we live in 2025 and people still think the killer can simply outskill those teams by walking around and spreading hooks, keeping the game a 1v4 for as long as humanly possible. truly do not understand it.
no one is "relying", stop making assumptions. I win 90% of my games by playing "fair", but anyone who is remotely competent in this game will tell you that some games are flat out impossible without camping and or tunneling.
And? if you are winning 90% of your games, why do you need to camp, tunnel and slug? There is no reason. Play the game.
because that last 10% should be possible to win too? if you keep nerfing camping/tunneling they become impossible.
I disagree entirely. It's already possible to win without doing all of that. Tunneling isn't being addressed anyways so that topic can die off in this thread.
ok, please enlighten me, as well as the best players in the world (who are also forced to tunnel/camp in situations like this, guess its a skill issue from them) how to win against a cracked-out-of-their-mind 4 man who runs quadruple meta perks on everyone and sends me to gas heaven by spreading hooks after every gen regression perk has been nerfed and im playing freddy or dredge.
rhetorical question: dont waste your time because its impossible. you are literally not winning that by playing "nice" and thinking you can win that by doing so is just delusion.
absolutely insane to try and blame killers for attempting to navigate around the bullshit, especially the go next epidemic lmao. I chased one guy as pinhead yesterday and he instantly gave up from just looking at me. guess that's my fault. survivors and killers both play equally sweaty btw, its a competitive game
patrol gens? catch survivors off guard and avoid chases in hard looping areas? thanks I was never doing that before, I was simply hard tunneling the first person I found for 5 minutes then losing then complaining to the forums. I only have 70 hours on this game and have no idea what im doing, thanks for teaching me how to play
those perks were never ever on the level of dead hard, in fact old ruin was bad against good teams cuz u would just hit the skill check and ignore the totem
Killers will probably take a significant strength hit but at the same time this will allow them to put more power into killers in different ways. I'm very skeptical on their implementation of these mechanics and whether or not they will punish the killer excessively. I'm still optimistic this will turn killer gameplay more into a chase focus mindset instead of playing 3v1 simulator or bust.
It's okay, you can take an L every now and then, especially if you're already winning 90% of the time. You're doing very well with those statistics.
what does that have to do with the fact that if you nerf camping and tunneling even more then that 10% because impossible to win?
yeah, you shouldn't win EVERY game, but you should have a chance. against that 10%, camping and tunneling is your only chance.
I completely agree with you. They should do these things for the health of the game, but I don't think it's what the devs will do. I have zero faith in the dev team at this point. Everything they have suggested in patch 1 is a nerf to survivors. By would part 2 be different? As long as they can make a few dollars off the game, they consider it a win.
So, does your lack of acknowledgement mean you won't buy me a drink? XD
How many games are you getting this consistently back to back to back?
Unless, you're going against 4 man SWF every single time you queue up.
The same thing can be said about killers running meta perks, just like survivors run meta perks.
Killers run gen regression as it is completely difficult 4king with no gen regression unless you're a top tier S-tier killer.
Survivors run looping builds to prolong their chase to buy time
Survivors run anti-tunnel builds as a game becomes completely hard to navigate in a 1v3.
Why is it only an issue when survivors run full meta (I don't run meta), but not an issue when the same is said for killer?
Point being, people will run perks and builds because guess what? They make the game easier to play, they're inherent advantages for people to use and if a killer OR survivor wants to run meta or off-meta, it's fine.
Regardless, people like to point out gen regression and second chance perks but why is this an issue all of a sudden? Why the large uptick in slugging after the Mori introduction? hmmm methinks it's because it's easier to bypass the hook stages. Nothing to do with survivor gameplay as it would have been more popular after the 6.1.0 changes years ago.
I generally agree with this on the surface.
However, you use this statement in a way that seems to only apply to you, and somehow not the survivors you face, who you claim have a 90% loss rate. That seems like a much, much higher rate of losing matches that are already nearly or actually impossible to win in the current game.
it doesn't really matter how many games anyone gets it back to back. no game should be unwinnable and if we keep nerfing camping/tunneling AND spreading hooks then that's what's going to happen. they're not THAT rare btw, people say things like "you only get them once in 500 games" when its more like 1 in 100 or 1 in 75.
yeah, killers can run meta perks but their perks have been nerfed and as of right now the strength of survivor greatly outshines the strength of killer in terms of perks.
I think we're on the same side, youre just misunderstanding what im saying. it's not an issue when anyone runs meta perks, as both sides can do it. the issue arises when we keep beating one side with a club for trying to play efficiently while we dont do the same for the other, or dont give that one side something to make up for it. it gets even worse because, as I said above, camping and tunneling is completely necessary in some games and without it you'll just lose no matter what.
I don't really understand what youre saying here
I see, my post is more-so directed at challenging the notion of slugging being utilized due to second chance perks and gen regression nerfs. If that was the case, it would have been a thing after the Eruption nerf. It would have been a thing after the Pain Resonance and Pop nerf, yet it started directly when the Mori was introduced.
I'm not inherently against the Mori decision, but it obviously pushes people to slug more for the 4k as the killer gets the satisfaction of seeing a mori. I've went against killers who will slug everyone, wait 'til everyone bleeds out, and sits on a person to get the grand finale of a played out mori that we've seen hundreds of times by now.
1 in 100 or 1 in 75 is quite low for someone to repeatedly see meta survivors. In my games, I see many survivors running many different builds. I hardly if ever see a full 2-man or 3-man (I solo queue and duo queue now) and I don't see the meta that you see when I play survivor. That's why I mentioned unless you're going against 4-man SWFs all the time, it's not an issue. You win back to back games, your MMR goes up, and you will face more SWF teams as that's where they are located on the MMR totem pole.
The point that I stress is that we win some games and we lose some games.
I have games where my teammates die and DC and I switch to a somewhat more meta build to compensate it. I would argue that killer perks and playstyles are far more dominant than a survivor as a killer primarily dictates how a game progresses (if they're skilled). They can choose to slug off rip, they can choose to tunnel and camp at will.
The worst thing a survivor has is what? Gen progression by splitting up? Anti-tunnel that can be negated by simply hitting them and removing it unless DS is involved? Flashlight saves that can be negated with Lightborn anyways? (I don't think Lightborn is a problem unlike other survivors). Hook saves that are negated because hooks spawn relatively close to one another and the killer can 360 a few steps to hook anyways?
If you're going to bring up Reassurance and Shoulder the Burden, most of these perks are the most strong in SWF. They do nothing for solo-queue due to the lack of coordination.
As I've said on the forums, I don't use Reassurance because I've had a random solo-queue survivor attempt to suicide when I did it to them. It does nothing for solo-queue, only strong in SWF. What perks are much stronger compared to meta killer perks (conversation needs to include killer as certain killers dominate, especially against solo-queue.)
Wraith, Billy, Nurse, Hag (teleport), Huntress (ranged attack), Bubba (his saw with full charges reaches faster than SB), Freddy (teleport), Spirit, Legion, Oni, Deathslinger (ranged attack), Twins (victor), Trickster (ranged attack), Onryo (teleport), Dredge (teleport), Wesker, Singularity (teleport), Xenomorph (teleport), Chucky (dash), Unknown (teleport), Lich (flight), Dracula (bat form), Houndmaster.
All of these can instantly begin either catching up quickly to start chase, or start zoning through teleport, ranged attacks, etc.
So more than half I guess.
Even vs simple M1 killers like Ghostface, it doesn't buy you that much distance, and with current map design will usually result in another down too soon for any meaningful gen progress.
You also failed to mention the remaining cornucopia of second chances offered by being unhooked?
Can someone kindly tell me what they are changing ? best regards.
Curious how even in the most oppressive meta for Killers, Overbrine Eruption, tunneling and camping was still through the roof.
Funny how players will always use the strongest, most efficient strategy that requires the least amount of effort.
those perks were meta perks just like dead hard and didn’t get nerfed for 5 years. You made it seem like it was only survivors that take long to have their stuff nerfed. Period.
Also ruin was “bad” yet still used almost every game. Yeah sorry don’t buy it
Because there are no other decent options. Thanatophobia and Butcher have been trashed by spec changes and numerical nerfs, and Irruption and Overcharge have become significantly harder to use due to Gen Kick restrictions.
those perks were meta but were never on the same level of strength as dead hard, period. theyre both hex perks. noed only punished you if you didnt prepare for it and ruin was bad against people who could hit the skillcheck, it was only good against mid to decent players
lol so? im not against tunnel/camp getting nerfed as long as they make spreading hooks actually a viable strategy against good squads
Considering that perks will likely stay the same, and we'll likely get at least one gen-related perk this year, I think it'll be fine.
Tunneling and camping usually doesn't let you beat actually good players anyways. It lets you punch down harder against people worse than you and gives you a good crutch against people closer to your skill level
it does help against good players, you need to actually know when to tunnel though. youre thinking of brainless tunneling. if it didnt help you win against good players then it wouldnt happen in nearly every competitive game
also if we get a new gen perk itll probably be nerfed within a year lol