piplup55
piplup55
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why
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More pallets were needed in some maps. It was outright criminal how groaning storehouse could spawn all that debris in the middle with not a single pallet in sight between it. But this is also stupid. filler pallets should be an emergency resource when you don't have anywhere to run no more, not the main loopable structures. Just give us more normal jungle gyms instead of whatever the ######### we got last patch.
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Yeah sure. Get rid of the strongest anti-tunnel perk for survivors specially after how disastrous this patch is.
Rgearding your case: the survivor was careless enough to use the doors when not knowing where you were, so DS protected them. But if he used DS offensively, that's on them. Now you know where they are and can easily start a chase with them. So I'd say you come out on top on this one despite the stun. -
kaneki is much worse
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and yet some matches feel like i get hit with surge, pain res and pop way too often on the same gen… so it's fine.
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something something something the trickster not scary, something something something sadako has telekinesis
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i'm not taking any suggestions seriously from a man that complained about "getting out of power too often" (when the xeno changes were proposed and applied to the ptb) because in normal gameplay he only gets out of power "2 or 3 times a day". brother maybe that's exactly why xenomorph needed some changes so that it getting out of power became something normal in a match.
i may be biased cause i hate xenomorph in dbd with a passion, but i certainly don't want it to get buffed unless it gets some kind of rework. -
nope. at most they should give categories to killers and give each category a small passive or something. there's a class in 2v8 that gives the killer 5% haste while unseen, you could give that to killers categorized as Ranged (majority of them being 4.4 m/s) so they have a better time traversing the map.
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if they want to keep scamper out of the equation, why not make it so chucky can redirect like Snug after vaulting a pallet or window? it would make sense.
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i want scamper to come back. it made sense for the killer. he makes noise vaulting the pallet alerting survivors nearby, just give the vault sound to windows as well while scampering. give it a bit of a longer cooldown if necessary or make it drain the power or something. also, chucky needs the fast dash again with sluggish controls and a smaller hitbox. when he first released it was somewhat easy to juke him and it was FUN to see him go past you and lose distance, it felt balanced. let's go back to that please.
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The killer immediately started doing rounds around the hooked survivor
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895111#Comment_3895111
I don't see how that's the case at all. His ability to injure survivors is really strong. He has good mobility which allows him to apply map pressure, and while he can't down with his power, he can still use his power to catch up to injnured survivors, making it harder for them to get to a pallet or window. He seems pretty well balanced if you ask me.
Don't bother. Killer mains can't stand losing gens and being patient, they just want an easy and strong killer that doesn't require effort to get 4ks. Look at the Houndmaster, or rather, don't, cause nobody plays her (I understand her power is janky and buggy, but I haven't seen her since one week after release).
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With how he is now, I think it's time to bring back Scamper. Never should have left in the first place tbh, just needed some balance around it.
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Because for the entity this is just a game. She needs survivors to be trapped in a place with a killer and have an objective. She kinda liked the purple ha- She kinda liked the idea of electricity I guess so she made a pseudo electrical circuit with gens and electric-powered gates for the survivors to escape. "Why" is lore related and how she feeds on emotions like they already mentioned.
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This is bait. No one is gonna fall for the Lig one.
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honestly, i wouldn't exactly be against considering "map size" as part of the map generation algorhythm. maybe not in the sense of making the map bigger or smaller depending on killer, but things along the line of "if the map is small and you have a mobility killer like blight or billy, add extra pallets and windows" and that kind of stuff
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@[Deleted User] said:
Anti "killer tactics" seems to be popular. Could we explore why players in killer roles consistently rely on these tactics, and fix the root of the problem instead of just plastering on more buffs or nerfs to fix it?
that's not possible. even if you make a handgun viable a shotgun will still be more effective. you have to nerf the shotgun so people actually consider taking the handgun instead of always picking the shotgun.
punishing and unincetivizing these tactics while addressing the problems that make them preferable is the way to go. -
Honestly I can't see why is it that hard for them to simply allow survivors to get up by themselves in the case 3 or 4 people are in the dying state. Killers would know that if they try to slug all survivors they will get a free get out of jail card, which will deter them from doing it and it would incentivize to hook one of the already dying survivors before knocking down a 3rd person. A hooked survivor and a downed survivor are enough pressure.
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I don't dislike the ideas. I don't think the slugging solution needs the broken status effect. Getting up with deep wound would make sense so survivors don't start healing immediately after getting up while wasting time healing their deep wound.
The anti-camp/anti-tunnel is actually very similar to a solution I came up with. But instead of the survivor jumping from hook to hook, they always stay in the same hook. And, after a time or under certain circumstances a "silhouette" of said survivor appears on a far away hook and other survivors can unhook the "silhouette" for the hooked survivor to teleport there. Killer gets the unhook notification under the original hook if this happens. This basically makes it so a survivor can be unhooked in 2 different places to avoid camping and make tunneling harder. -
lol yeah they killed her and for good reason. she needs to go back to the drawing board instead of just giving every single effect to her power.
i actually miss the first iteration. with the right adjustments she could have been bearable. like, area of effect does not scan you for the exposed effect if immobile or crouching BUT skull merchant can see her drones on her radar and can see survivors under them as if they had a claw trap. this way the drones are not useless if deployed and not destroyed and can still be useful in chase cause expose build up and being able to mind game with her radar since now she can see you under the area of a drone. survivors would have to decide how they want to face her: either take the drones down every chance they get but skull merchant can track them anywhere thanks to the clawtrap (and free dissolution effect on first pallet) or leave the drones be and still be tracked while under their area of effect and risk getting exposed and skull merchant getting undetectable under them.
and also it wouldn't be an issue for 3 genning. you no longer get scanned by the drones if doing a gen, skully just knows you are there, so she still has to come and shoo you away. but since you are not getting enough exposed build up by coming and going from the area of effect, you don't risk getting exposed while tapping the gen.
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@WolfgangGarou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888978#Comment_3888978
And if a killer does without tunnelling, everyone complains again because he then slugs. ^^
The fact is and remains that a killer plays against four survivors at the same time, three of whom are sitting at the generator while he chases one across the map.
The Survivor rather than the Killer determines where the hunt goes, as he has the choice of all options, while the Killer mainly runs after him.In plain language: if the Survivor being hunted doesn't mess up, the other three will be able to carry out the repairs in peace for quite a while.
This in turn ensures that the killer has to come up with something if he wants to build up enough pressure to have a realistic chance of winning the game.There are several possibilities: slugging or throwing a survivor out of the match for good before the generators are too far advanced. So: tunnelling.
So if you say that he ‘just don't tunnel’, I'd like a counter-suggestion of what he should do that doesn't lead to ‘just don't slugging’ and yet goes beyond a vague ‘then just get better’. Why don't you describe a strategy that works? :-)
that's on the devs to balance out, but a killer should build pressure by constantly injuring survivors and having at least one person on a hook whenever possible. remember the "one on hook, one rescuing, one being chased and one repairing"? that's how a normal match should go, a battle of pressure between the survivors and the killer. but you know full well that survivors mess up all the time and they are not playing efficiently 90% of the time. and killers are getting more and more buffs to the point where they only may have trouble against SWF playing on comms that know what they are doing and keep tabs on you and themselves throughout the match.
that's exactly why these base mechanics need to be implemented, so all survivors have a chance against killers that play like they are in a tournament and the only way a killer should succeed with such strategies is if they bring a build dedicated to it, giving up on regression, aura reading or utility in general. and also because slugging, camping and tunneling are lame and boring for everyone, but it seems that getting a flawless win is more important than actually playing the game.
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Yes please. It would be really good if a certain kind of northeastern players do not come to western europe servers anymore.
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lol no. blast mine is annoying but not broken in any way. it's literally a perk made to gain time to run away from a generator when the killer is getting close and decides to kick instead of chasing right away. it's useless if you don't want to or can't kick them.
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God forbid you want to try a fun healing/looping build! Second chance perks are strong for a reason, but not everybody wants to bring OTR, DS, Unbreakable every match. Do you know how to avoid these perks, tho? I'll tell you… Do not tunnel. If you weren't able to apply enough pressure it's on you (but do not take it personally cause there's also huge map balancing issues and gens can also fly if you get too distracted, just try a custom match with 4 perkless bots, but those issues are a whole different world).
And do you know how you will be able to avoid the anti-tunnel feature? By not tunneling.
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well, then killers might not actually slug as much knowing that their matches can be cut short and the only killers that will intentionally slug are the toxic ones playing 5000k hours nurse with best addons just to stomp people.
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@shadow_V said:
Ok bhvr I'm TRIED of getting moried ok I'm TIRED and FED up this is the 4th time I've gotten moried today and I'm sick of it 😤😤
get a thicker skin. the base mori should be changed in some manner cause it only encourages slugging the 3rd survivor and go for the fourth. and it's not at all comparable to survivors teabagging, it would be more comparable to survivors bullying the killer with head on or waiting out egc until last second before leaving.
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@UndeddJester said:
Surrender options are awful, you only have to look at a game like League of Legends to see why they suck.
Doesn't matter which side you're on, if you add surrender options what ends up happening is you very rarely play a game out. 90% of games results in either your side quitting, or the opponents quitting.
It makes it feel like you never actually win a game, cause the only experiences you tend to have are losing, or your opponent quitting.
Not to be a jerk, but while reading this list, it basically means "reasons I should be allowed to quit and go next". To answer each point: -
- Poor server connection goes both ways, and can affect anyone. Killer can get robbed of hits due to grabs and weirdness at vaults, and also from aim dressing messing up due to dodgy connections. So both sides are affected by this, and just cause one survivors connection is bad is no reason Survivors should be allowed to go next and throw the game for the rest of their team.
- Fair enough, but this is a legitimate issue to be addressed, just falling back to "let us go next" is not a solution.
- Bugs are bugs, and again appear for both sides, such as survivors hiding in walls or lockers. Severely agregious bugs result in killswitches, as has occured for many killers. There is no reason Survivors should be allowed to go next and throw the game for the rest of their team because of a minor bug.
- If a survivor has been tunneled out, what have survivors been doing to not get at least 2 or 3 gens done? Unless someone has literally been unhooking them within 20s repeatedly and feeding them to the killer. What if the Killer was allowed to just go next when survivors take 4 gens for 1 hook? Would that be fine? We're in the same scenario as described above where neither side will get to experience a win most of the time.
- Not seen any communications this is being targeted. The fact the 4%, and missing 2 skillchecks to die haven't been toted for removal indicates this isn't a thing. Trying to unhook yourself when there is one player left, and if you fail dying since that player likely can't save you is perfectly reasonable... when else would either feature be used if they're not gonna be removed?
- Same applies for both sides again, and survivors are far more common for taking map offerings to abuse strong main buildings or certain perk combos to make things difficult for the killer. Why should a survivor be allowed to Go Next and throw the game when the only reason map offerings are used is because otherwise these builds often don't/barely function? Is it OK for the killer to immediately Go Next because its Garden of Joy, Mount Ormond of Eyrie of Crows? Map offerings are also being nerfed considerably, so this makes no sense as an argument.
As I say, not being jerk, but there seems an awful lot of double standard here, and I don't joke about surrender ruining games. Yes DBD has extreme highs and extreme lows... but if you want to become completely apathetic about the whole thing, allow 90% of your games to end in surrender and see if you still care to play.
The surrender option when the whole team is slugged is reasonable, but any more than that should be added with great trepidation.
People tend to forget that killers get to play ALL the match, while survivors might die 2 or 3 minutes in. this makes it awful for the other survivors to play and the dead survivors might have to wait for a friend still playing the match, which is not fun. i get that killers have their fair share of problems, but that's more on the mmr and the core of the game than on the survivors. you could say the same for the survivor side and their problems, but killer's have far more power on the survivor experience than what some people think and if these people played with fairness in mind, instead of trying to win at all costs, maybe they wouldn't focus so much on the matches they lose because of a skill issue and they could have fun playing like a normal person.
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Just make it 4 killer perks and 4 survivor perks. With 2 rerolls max you can pay with iridescent shards. You can reroll any time you want and any perk (except already bought ones), with no repetitions or chance of already rerolled perks appearing.
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they just need to incentivize survivor-killer interaction. more base tracking for killer, more exploring for survivors that let them repair gens faster. shift the gameplay from chasing to simply interrupting. chasing should still be a core part of the game, but make the killer understand that the longer they spend chasing someone, the more they lose the gens and give them a reward for abandoning a chase and go patrol gens.
this would drag out matches. but that's how the game should be, a tug of war between survivors trying to do gens peacefully and being chased by the killer when they do. games shouldn't last 5 minutes cause the killer spent those 5 minutes chasing a single person who is clearly better than them and the other survivors did all 5 gens, or because the killer is an omega nurse who decided to slug all survivors since the beginning of the match. the second option is now being worked on thanks to operation health, thankfully.
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oh no! survivors actually hiding around and trying to survive??? I'M NOT GONNA STOP UNTIL I MURDER YOU SO YOU STOP BEING A RAT!!!
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no. 2v8 is fun. lots of people will tell you that. this is a "you" problem.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885800#Comment_3885800
hahahah youre joking right? shoulder the burden? off the record? reassurance? background player? "no meta perks" hahahahahaha.
besides background player, everything else is "skill issue". the best way to not be affected by anti-tunnel and anti-camp perks is… not tunneling and not camping.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885763#Comment_3885763
"killers keep refusing to play nice"
and can we blame them? why would anyone want to spread hooks when that enables meta perks on every survivor and keeps the game a 1v4 for as long as possible. why would they want to do it when every perk which rewarded them for hooking has been nerfed. why would they want to do it when hook stages have been increased to 70 seconds. most importantly, why would they want to purposely slow their objective to please the other side when that other side never shows the same courtesy ?learn to apply pressure. you don't need someone on hook to apply it. bring aura reading perks and stealth perks to catch survivors off guard. avoid chases in hard looping areas. patrol gens… when killers decide to not improve or bring perks to help them in the areas they lack and just bring gen regression they start to indulge in cheesy strategies like tunneling and slugging. which makes BHVR buff killers individually so they can end chases quicker. but killer players do not change their way of playing after buffs, instead they double down on those strategies because they are now easier to do. the same would happen if they "nerf gens".
so the only thing left is punishing players trying to use those strategies.
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there is no unincentive without punishing the killer side, because it's punishing unfun strategies for survivors.
i agree that "fair" strategies need some buffs for killers, but i also believe that bhvr can't implement them before they implement everything in operation health. once that's done then they can add things for killers to make matches more dynamic and give them a fair opportunity at a 4k. either making killers stronger one by one or adding more things like the anti-hiding and survivor spawn logic (which are actual changes to combat killer current complaints).
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@MissClove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876217#Comment_3876217
Well, it’s making super unfun for survivors. I hardly even play anymore . 7/10 games are slugging. You have no chance of getting a hatch at this point. It should be base kit. I hate having to use an anti slug build. I’ve been trying not to fully give up on the game. I have in the past but it’s almost unplayable for me in its current state.
what makes it unfun is that you cannot counter the slug for the forced mori unless you bring unbreakable. which makes unbreakable an "in case" perk such as the anti-tunnel ones. i'll bring off the record just "in case" the killer tunnels, i'll bring unbreakable "in the case" the killer slugs.
and bringing all of this is unfun because there is no worse outcome than a killer that plays normal so you are basically playing with no perks at all. but it's enough for you to bring a fun build of non-meta perks to get the sweatiest killer that tunnels you at 5 gens and slugs the rest for the win only for you to be unable to do anything about it cause it's a blight/nurse/spirit, the map generation is bullcrap and you don't have second chance perks to have a single CHANCE to escape. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877251#Comment_3877251
If your going on MMR basis as 3k is a win for the killer so let last one have a chance at the hatch... The hatch doesn't count positively or negatively towards MMR. So why is the hatch so important? They clearly lost the match as they can't do the gens alone so why not take the loss? Works both ways. Killers want 4k survivors want hatch.
so the last survivor doesn't surrender the moment 3 people are dead. also, a last survivor that gets a hatch escape may maintain their morale to keep playing while not demoralizing the killer who already won. so yeah, i think it is positive that a survivor escapes via hatch even if it doesn't affect mmr.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877251#Comment_3877251
That's interesting that you noted a survivor player that dies multiple matches in a row can suffer from low morale, but don't really consider this a possibility for the killer player. They just take the game too seriously. I think a lot of killer players just end up sweating hard to secure wins so they don't feel any negative emotions from being judged/BMed by a group of survivor plays. It's not uncommon to play in a super chill way, no tunneling/camping, going for 12 hooks, and if you lose because the survivor team was just efficient or you played your killer's power poorly, you're usually getting teabagged, clicked at, told gg ez, etc.
because unless you are really really bad at the game, you will most certainly kill at least one person each match by playing fair. and getting bm'd is not an outcome, you just have to try to ignore it. also, even bm is worse for survivors because killers bm usually comes after the killer already has a way to end the match, but they decide not to and let you bleed on the ground while humping you, wasting everyone's time. survivor bm is like "i click click my flashlight and/or teabag from afar trying to get your attention or annoy you after throwing a pallet". even if they just stay on a door on egc, egc is shorter than a bleedout timer, and you can always go there and make them leave, getting some extra points in the process if they let you hit them. i'm not saying it's ok, i'm just saying that it's not as harsh as what a killer can do in a bm situation. and if you don't want to be told anything on end game chat, just click next.
also, you mostly suffer as killer against coordinated swf that try to make your life impossible (i've also lived it on the rare occasions i decide to play killer, but i don't like it because what stresses me is missing plays that i feel would have worked against me if i was playing survivor more than the bm). with survivor you can suffer from the killer AND your own team unless you are part of a coordinted swf. so yeah… i can get why some killer players with thin skin can get stressed by survivor player's actions, but i genuinely believe that survivor players have it worse.
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because the only thing that "defines" a win condition is the mmr system.
but the game doesn't tell you how to win. it just tells you what you are there to do: survivors repair gens, open exit gates and escape and killer interrupts survivors, downs them and kills them.
i can get that, in the enclosed scenario of a trial, 4 survivors escaping is a win for the survivor TEAM and killing all 4 survivors is a win for the killer because they are the opposite ends of what the outcome of a trial can be. i might accept those as a definitive win condition, even if nothing proves it. but, everything in between is hard to classify because mmr says that a survivor escaping alone is a win for the survivor, and killer should at least get 3 kills to "win", even if there is nothing other than mmr to indicate it.
but is it really a win for a survivor to just open the exit gates and leave without staying behind to help, turning what could have easily been a 4-man escape into a 1-man escape and 3 deaths? is it a loss for the killer to get just 1 kill but the 3 others survivors escaped on death hook, injured and almost didn't make it to the exit gate at the end? there's nothing at the end that tells you that you "won" or that you acquired a "victory" other than a phrase that reiterates your fate in the game (you escaped/got killed/got sacrificed or you fed the entity well/the entity hungers…).
people take this game too seriously, especially killer players. altruism is normal between survivors because a lot of people play with their friends and want to escape together for fun so it's not sweaty to stay behind when they can already escape to try to help a friend that's in trouble. they don't do it to get a "win" against the killer, they do it so their friend doesn't feel bad for getting killed (getting killed too many times in a row really mines up one's morale you know). on the other hand, killers do slug the second to last survivor for no other reason than catching the last one and mori one of them in the end, which is sweaty af. the hatch mechanic is there for a reason, just let it go and let the last survivor have a chance at their escape, you already "won" anyway according to mmr…
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i think he just needs a slight hitbox adjustment. he still has a truckbox instead of a hitbox.
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@MissClove said:
Or do something about killers doing this. I don’t think it should be ok. The increase of it has gotten too much honestly. The finisher Mori was a terrible idea.
it's a fun idea, but it should not have been implemented without base unbreakable.
i hate bhvr for this, because they probably did this to make moris more common as a way to sell moris in the future. but since they are incompetent and their game is held up with tape, they are still probably studying the way to implement them to the game without breaking up mori animations or the store.
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survivor just need to have the ability to get up once per minute on the dying state. that's it. even if you are 95% recover unless a minute passes you can't get up. killers can still try to slug 3 to 4 survivors if they want but punishes unnecessary slugging.
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remove dc penalty. it's that simple. people will always give up, but it's better to have a bot than having an afk or one less teammate. if they don't want that, then they should try to fix all the things that makes survivor miserable like blight or slugging.
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no way. he is supposed to be weak at the beginning and get stronger as he tiers up. and he just need 2 hits to tier up so…
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the game started going downhill when they removed the lightburn mechanic. the game should encourage interaction, not remove it.
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too hard to differentiate between a person that actually tries to unhook and fails the second phase skillchecks cause they suck at the game and someone who is giving up. someone with no hooks at 2 survivors left would get a penalty if tried to unhook as a last chance. and getting a penalty cannot be tied to luck mechanics either, everybody would start to bring luck offerings or slippery meat just to not get it, or simply go afk, which is worse cause the killer can use the afk to farm or get perk tokens.
people will still give up despite penalties, so i'd much rather get a bot and have no penalty for dc than people giving up on hook or going afk.
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Blight is the main reason that this iteration of 2v8 is not fun, shouldn't have been brought at all. Nurse and Hillbilly are more than enough high tiers.
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Scamper was an essential part of his power. He stalks with Hidey Ho and then chases you with Scamper to finish it off with Slice and Dice. This is all lost. He just uses Hidey Ho to creep up behind you (which is not that useful since you can hear him laughing) and when he is in range he uses Slice and Dice. It doesn't matter if he hits or misses, cause he will have Hidey Ho ready in 4 seconds to try again and either hit you this time or down you. It's stupidly boring.
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TBH Scamper only made god pallets unsafe, which is fair for a killer power. On god pallets you either predrop them very early if you are ahead to force Hidey Ho or a pallet break break or you play the cowboy game to see who gives up first, either Chucky going for a hit and getting stunned or you dropping the pallet too early and not getting a stun. You lose on the latter situation because of Scamper if you can't manage to reach any other structure. On loopable structures, you can see Chucky through checkspots and you can 50/50 him on dropped pallets.
I don't know why people cried about Scamper that much, he is just a killer that forces you to loop cause it's harder for him to hit you through corners, and you can't just hold W cause he WILL catch up. It's true that he is fast with Slice and Dice and has short pre-fire cooldown, but the numbers can be tweaked to have lower synergy with Scamper. I bet people that complained are people who camp and predrop pallets and instead of looping just go away from the structures and get hit by Slice and Dice.
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If you are saying this from a killer perspective: no.
Killers are already abusing camping and tunneling knowing full well people will not have Off The Record or Decisive Strike, so medkits and flashlight saves are the only things keeping survivors alive in those situations.