joeyspeehole
joeyspeehole
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4056078#Comment_4056078
I play killer often
Sure you do buddy :)
single tile or kick a pallet and catch up to the survivor a couple of seconds later
Yeah, if you didn't look, maybe the image didn't render for you, just around that one loop are 4 pallets. Survivor can easily reach that pallet before you recover from kicking first pallet…
But hey, we believe you would manage to catch up in time, because you are just that much better.
Eventually you may learn to play the game better. I'm not here to judge you, just to provide an outside perspective.
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@HexPectoPatronum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058445#Comment_4058445
There are no 3-gens in 2v8, only 5-gens at the end and you need a lot of luck to get the last 5 gens close to each other. And I don't want to pressure gens that much as I do in 1v4 (because I have the perks to do so there). In 2v8, I focus more on nice chases and when I play Huntress I go for snipes on 8 survivors while playing Enforcer which is a lot of fun. But the matches are over way too fast and you can't just say "then move on to the next one", when you have to wait 20-25 minutes for a lobby as killer.
The gens can still be clustered together, creating the feel of a three-gen scenario. However, the survivors can be blamed for not spreading out gen completions.
I feel that the habit of hooking somebody and then running across the map to pressure the cage instead of pressuring gens is the reason why 2v8 would be miserable at 10 gens.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053519#Comment_4053519
I dunno about this. I regularly see my first chase get extended until three gens pop before I hook them. That's not even tunnelling, that's first chase. I'm not saying both don't need to be addressed, but people are exerting the behavior you're ascribing to anti-tunnelling behavior to just standard chase. This is in part why so many killers tunnel. When 1-3 gens go down per chase, the only mathematically valid solution is to tunnel to slow that progression and get what kills you can.
This is why I support bringing the 2v8 rules into 1v4. If survivors are gen-rushing, the regression would scale up and actually matter.
If killers are tunneling, the progression would speed up and punish that behavior too. And once you factor in perk stacking on top of these mechanics, neither tunneling nor gen-rushing would be the optimal strategy anymore. -
@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053519#Comment_4053519
??? they nerfed gen regression so killers started tunneling camping and slugging more not to mention back when they destroyed knock out they never addressed hooking buffs survivors which was why slugging rose to begin with btw
but speaking of the first 3 gens popping if the survivors are smart that'll happen during the first chase which is part of the reason why killers complain about gen speeds
…or they can just choose to not tunnel. Gen-rushing is the answer to tunneling. If you slow down gens, I don't believe it will remove tunneling. I'm sure you have a similar claim, but I have been playing this game for a long time.
And if you're staying in chase for three gens, that's the problem. They nerfed survivors to start in the same location to help killers tunnel easier. By removing face-camping, killers just proxy camp, the behavior stays the same.
I never tunnel, slug, or camp. I'm not interested in scarfing down the cake slice in two bites.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4055647#Comment_4055647
They are everywhere… What do you mean good areas. 4 pallets around shack sound as pretty good area to me :D
If I were you, I wouldn't talk about something I don't understand.
Insults aside, killers are generally faster than survivors in almost every situation. I play killer often, and while free hits are great, it’s just as easy to walk around a single tile or kick a pallet and catch up to the survivor a couple of seconds later.
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I guess just like playing against killers who enjoy engaging more in the base elements of the game. You'll never see me hook patrolling.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
2v8 plus this with a new killer with crippling weaknesses, now is a terrible time to play killer.
@PetTheDoggo said:
Basically every possible pallet spawn has a pallet now. So if you want to play, pick something that can ignore pallets…
Just small example:https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QH0Q5U7JYM4P/pallets.png
If I were you, I would mind game more and just walk around the pallet since they’re usually not in good areas ;)
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@sprogster said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4055584#Comment_4055584
YOu're simply wrong. It's not just pallets, but jungle gyms spawining inappropriatley.
Which tracks which a bunch of testing I just did. It's a serious issue for current killer play, so let not pretend that is isn't mmmkaayy?
Because a YouTuber told you this…
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@IamtheMilkman said:
DCing from a match should have a harsher punishment to stop the rampant dcs. I don’t know how many games where I down a person at the start of the match only to have them DC, which causes a chain reaction of more dcs from the other survivors after losing a teammate.
The entitlement is beyond game ruining.Is hating bots a criticism of behavior?
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@terumisan said:
so i'm surprised you never said gen regression getting destroyed over the years since that's the actual problem
If they don’t address tunneling, there is no reason not to focus on generators. If someone is being tunneled hard, the team’s goal should be to at least finish three gens. I mean, there is the option to give up and crouch in front of the hook, but a tunnelers mindset is based on math. To apply pressure, you need to disrupt the equation.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053080#Comment_4053080
it’s that the community treats any attempt to keep playing as suspiciously close to abandoning;This would be more believable if you didn't also include
this is also while the killer can stall the match into a non-game state with no consequences.making it seem very disingenuous. If you actually believed that, you would have at least something in there about addressing the ability of survivors to waste the killer's time without any consequence as well. The concept of "time waste" will always be the root of why people want to be able to leave early, and the abandon system already accounts for that far more than most pvp games, let alone ones based on one side being elimination based.
If people didn't abuse the 4% to ragequit for years, we wouldn't be at this point. If they ever played a moba and had a team that refused to give up, most dbd players would go nuclear getting stuck in a match for 30+ minutes not being allowed to take their ball and go home without a deserved penalty if they disconnect.
If these survivors really want to save games from the jaws of defeat, they'd bring any number of the perks designed to do so. Instead the abandon feature not only disincentivizes them, but nobody wants that anyway.
The difference is that survivors have to abandon the match entirely to escape the prison that the killer controls. I genuinely believe that design choice was made to boost killers' endgame strength. It's no different from removing Distortion to encourage 4K slugging. I've also seen multiple threads where killer-mains openly discuss removing the hatch altogether.
Also, crouching in the exit gate doesn't stop the killer from playing, it actually increases the odds of hooking another survivor. If players were allowed to take their chance and potentially unhook, it would extend the playable portion of the match. Sure, that survivor might not have the skill to change the outcome, but I've been in plenty of games where a last second unhook completely flipped the game.
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@Ryuhi said:
the game is almost over why am I still blocked from trying to unhook?You said it in your question: almost.
Framing it as "trying to 3%" is why they needed the measure in the first place. Because it means "leaving the match prematurely" more often than actually trying to unhook. Otherwise we wouldn't have the abandon option in half the conditions it pops up, especially since many of them can have much more than a 3% chance of resetting the game.
The issue isn’t that players are “framing it as trying to 3%,” it’s that the community treats any attempt to keep playing as suspiciously close to abandoning; this is also while the killer can stall the match into a non-game state with no consequences.
I think the OP is upset that this “measure” was implemented without pause, yet the efforts to address slugging and tunneling were effectively abandoned. Behaviour (devs) are in control of what they choose to focus on.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052541#Comment_4052541
How about the experience of the three survivors left to do 5 gens because someone was upset to be the first one hooked?
No offense, but I like that so much better than the person intentionally letting the killer kill them because they want out.
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@Massquwatt said:
Ehhh from my experiences versing him it's pretty fine. Rules against Nurse pretty much apply with Vecna, lose line of sight, move and route in weird and unpredictable ways to make it harder for him to hit you and so forth. Increasing the cooldown of his ability just means they'll reserve it for garaunteed hits making him far less fun to go against.
I don't think this reply substantively rebuts the original poster's main argument. Having to use Vecna's power wisely instead of spamming it makes for better competition, in my opinion. You could remove the tokens and either give a rechargeable limit like Huntress or introduce a longer cooldown between hits. Most Vecnas are camping and tunneling anyway, so the weak excuse that the supposed disadvantages for killers are causing abusive player behavior doesn’t hold up.
I mean, they could really make it exciting by having him get three or four M2 attacks before needing to recharge at a clock. When he recharges at a clock, it disables that clock.
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Why buy an obvious pay-to-win killer only to tunnel, camp, and slug? I just can’t wrap my head around that mindset.
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If there were cool downs implemented, or if the token system could be reevaluated, then he may not be S-tier.
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I can easily see how people may play these new killers, that can completely ignore loops, and get really excited about their kill rate going up, only to be disappointed when the community requests a balancing effort that results in that person’s inflated kill rate reducing.
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What I have seen people do, in an effort to improve their own skills, is hook everyone twice and then let them go. This sounds like the player is just giving survivors a free win, but there is so much more involved in what they are doing. They're learning how to hook, even when playing against challenging survivor teams. They can choose to slaughter the group after hooking them twice, but the goal is to better their skills at the fundamentals of the game.
One person I know does this almost every game even though she (Huntress and Legion main) has been playing the game since it came out.
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"This is part of why I say we need some form of Kindred in 2v8. Maybe just show Survivors who are within 36-48 meters of the cage. That way, someone will know to stay away in case the cage respawns elsewhere on the map."
I like that Idea. I have noticed that camping cages has become more common, so I am definitely supportive of more information.
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I never use Sprint Burst because it always activates when I run, so I never have it when I need it. If you’re upset about someone walking to a hook and unhooking someone before sprinting away, I mean, that’s a low-reward, high-risk scenario.
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No... he just dashes and can activate his tier 3 without exposure anymore. I messed up and planned out my defense wrong, thinking that I would just take a hit. I heard that Myers was adjusted, but I haven't played the game much recently. I feel playing against him is more boring now. They basically made him a Chucky with better instant down abilities.
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@jedimaster505 said:
the game is heavily killer sided according to science and objectivity. why then the killers crying so much about it being survivor sided? let me tell you...
- their MMR is inflated
first thing which happens is a new killer curb stomps their opponent when playing at their true MMR because the game balance holds killers hands. then their MMR skyrockets and who do they go against? primarily cheaters, sweaty swfs and the best solo Q vets Dbd has to offer. then their win streak is broken and they post a video demanding survivor nerfs. like yeah, when your opponent is primarily the sweatiest upper skill bracket with a bunch of subtle cheaters in the mix, that's gonna feel survivor sided. but you're ignoring the huge percentage of solo Q players that you effortlessly massacred on auto pilot to get to that point.
2. entitlement
since killer is so easy they get used to getting 3-4k almost every match so they don't feel like they're "winning" unless they get a 4k every game. even though 2k is a perfectly balanced draw, in many killer mains eyes they see that as a loss because you can literally just meme around and get a 2k on auto pilot with even the low tier killers so it never really feels earned. they see their idols like momo and otz and true talent getting huge killer win streaks and they think they're a failure if they only get a balanced result like 50% kill rate avg. to be honest you kinda are since killer role is easy mode in 2025
3. killer main politics
I watched a recent dev live stream on YouTube and a dev said to type K, S, or B in chat to see if you're a killer main, survivor main or hybrid. overwhelming the chat was flooded with K's. there were hardly any S's and B's.
this didn't surprise me. I've always noticed how much louder killer mains are on social media. there's a killer main culture where they learned to cry very very loud on social media. the moment a sensible balance change is implemented by the devs, social media is inundated with an angry mob of killer mains posting doom videos about how they're quitting dbd.
so this scares BHVR who then reverts the changes until they are a joke (cough cough...anti tunneling, slugging and camping). survivor mains complain just not nearly as loud and the most popular streamers tend to be killer mains , like otz and true talent who are basically the mascots of dbd community. and since BHVR wants to be able to say they "listen" to feedback, game design choices get largely dictated by subjective politics instead of objectivity. cause what they're largely hearing is the noise of all those K's in the live stream chat.
more examples, Reddit killer mains have a dedicated Dead by daylight killers subreddit and survivor mains have no such equivalent. they're just not nearly as coordinated in their digital outcry. or Steam reviews, there are far more killer mains threatening to uninstall if anti tunnel changes are implemented.
4. survivor mains have learned to adapt, killer mains are stuck in their ways
survivors are always adapting to new killers added to the game, so we're used to learning new things and dealing with adversity, especially the solo Q vets. killer mains are set in their ways and not accustomed to adversity, so any sensible balance change that would make the game fair is perceived as BHVR ruining the game for killers. God forbid blight and his crutch slowdown perks be nerfed...we can't be letting momo lose his nearly 2k win streak now can we. that would be far too upsetting for all the wannabe momo blights that think they're actually good.
lastly if you think about killer mains, a lot of them play a bunch of different killers and expect to perform well on all of them. so for example they put like 500 hrs into killer role but that experience is spread across 10 different killers, which means they only have an average of 50 hrs of experience on any given killer, or maybe 100 on their favorite killer. so if they go up against survivors with 500 hrs dedicated to survivor role, the survivor actually has 5-10 times the experience in their specialty.
there you have it, the hard truth about why killer mains think a heavily killer sided game is survivor sided
Don’t upset the killer-main base lol. In the next update, they’re probably gonna put a cool down on gen repairs.
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@trn2la said:
PSA…
Killers do tunnel. no doubt. but before you go abusing a killer for tunneling, how much attention where you paying to other peoples hook status.
I come acroiss many games where survivors dont seem to even notice they have a team mate on the hook. I see survivors going into the void, coming out of the void and starting a fresh generator all while a team mate is on the Hook. Sometimes, that survivor was hooked by me on their very first hook, and there they stay through all stages until sacrificed :/I also get accused from time to time of tunneling even though I didn't. I don't want to tunnel and I don't need to tunnel. I'm quite an experienced Killer Main (Huntress) 3300 hours. I certainly don't need or want to tunnel and yet I get accused of it every now and then.
This suggests that some survivors failed to notice the fact there was another survivor hooked in between their last hook. I admit, I can come back to you after hooking a differnt survivor awfully fast, but none the less it's not tunneling.
One other scenario where I suppose I do tunnel is where a survivor may have been the last one off of the hook, but I go to patrol a generator and the survivor does not run, they just continue working on the gernator as if now they have FULL IMMUNITY!!!! simply because they were the last one hooked. Under those circumstances I get annoyed and hook you anyway, because even though you are ignoring the killer, I will not ignore a survivor who is blatantly flouting any kind of ethical killing attitude (jesus that sounds like an oxymoron) I might be inclined to try to follow.
Another circumstance where I might tunnel you is if you were the last survivor to come off of a hook, but to save your team mate from being the next, you flash light stun me. I drop the survivor I was holding and come after you and successful down and hook you. im sorry but too bad. You do not have blanket immunity from the killer simply because you came last off of a hook. this is a ridiculous abuse of these un-written rules.
To try to make actualy hard limits by way of the developers implementing punishment's for the killer if they do tunnel under these kinds of circumstances will ultimately destroy the game.
We have to be careful not to give survivors immunity from being hooked simply because, and for no other reason that the fact they were the last person to be hooked. there has to be some caveats.
I am all for some implantation of measures to slow blatant and reckless Tunneling, camping and Multi-slugging & Long time Slugging.
But even with slugging, too many surviors cause their own slug fest and even though the killer picks them all up, then blame the killer for slugging. this is ridiculous logic if looked at reasonably. case and point: where groups of survivors seemingly crowd the kiler and stay near the killer as he/she downs the surviors. The survivors should be running/hiding, not acting like they have some kind of invisible forcefield around them in the form of an un-written "Thou shall not slug" rule set.
All's I am saying is can we all be reasonable when thinking about what is or is not appropriate in game, or are we all just trying to get things bent to our satisfaction for winning? Because if that's your goal you are going to destroy the game and then get bored with it."I also get accused from time to time of tunneling even though I didn't. I don't want to tunnel and I don't need to tunnel. I'm quite an experienced Killer Main (Huntress) 3300 hours. I certainly don't need or want to tunnel and yet I get accused of it every now and then."
"Need to" is why people are asking for a QOL update. I think the goal is not to punish anyone, it's to address a sticky habit that discourages normal gameplay behavior.
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@Artimenius1307 said:
It's no secret that a party of 3-4 non-casual players was always an outlier in power in dbd, and with BHVR aiming to make the game not as wide as it I believe a change could be at least tested to see if it works out.
The main idea of the change came to me after playing survivor in 2v8: the limit. In 2v8, you can only pick up to 4 of the same class, so why not try something similar for 1v4? It's not an original idea to be fair, many unofficial tournaments and competitive leagues play with a limit for a long while, and I find this change will end up healthy for the game
How the limit should work: It only applies if at least 3 survivors are in a swf. If you are solo, or in a duo, there is no limit, naturally. Maybe for simplicity, all the perks and items (Could be changed for less impactful options) would be limited to 1 per party, so that in a team of 4 only 1 could pick let's say sprint burst and medkit (Though items could probably use a limit of 2). It can also apply to addons above very rare rarity, though that can be done later or not done at all.
The pros of such changes:
1) It will drastically reduce the power of people using same perk with great impact, like decisive strikes, dead hards, etc. In turn, it will give more freedom in the design of the perks themselves, since the issue of thinking how 4 people could use this perk in a group will be lesser
2) It will have an effect on the meta, I don't have any data to say for sure that majority of player base always play in a group of 3-4 but I strongly believe that to be the case because solo is misery
3) It will open potential new ways to improving the experience of both survivor and killer since the outlier which is swf would have less of an impact on the game balance
Of course, there are also cons:
1) It is a forceful limit, so naturally people will not like it. I am unsure if anything can be done about that, at least I couldn't think of anything
2) It will kill certain strategies, and while I will not shed a single tear over gen rush strategy with the stakeout + hyperfocus, some are definitely not as problematic (Maybe the perks which are part of them could be buffed)
A very important note - a change like this absolutely MUST come with something to decrease the power of the outliers on the killer side. It just wouldn't make sense to make swf weaker, and then leave S/A tier killers running around with 4 slowdowns, strongest addons, and hard tunneling right away. However, I am unsure myself how to change this in killer side, an idea I had was to classify certain perks and then put a limit on the perks from same class, say 1-2 maximum. Addons I don't think can be limited, it will be same as removing them, or maybe a certain condition like facing non 3-4 swf lobbies? I will think about it more and maybe create a separate thread regarding killer sideThe big problem with your plan is that there’s no way to track SWF versus non-SWF. If the system triggers for people who connect their thing with a certain platform, those players will just use another platform. Unlike other edits that they can make, there’s nothing they can do about people playing with friends. When I play on a team, they’re usually in the same room as me. Plus, with them like completely deleting survivor quality of life updates, you can only squeeze the survivor so far before it drastically affects killer a cue times. If everybody switches to killer, it’s gonna be like multi- hour wait times. I guess they could always bring back the bots like what they tested in 2v8.
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Slugging and tunneling …survivor QOL. I mean, their plan was always not to do anything. It was just a ploy to get the perk changes through. I imagine it's difficult to find ways to balance the queue time while continuing to hand hold the killers.
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@fussy said:
Vigil buff is probably best example in this game's history of why buff perks based only on pick rate is awful idea. It was good niche perk before, now it's stupidly overtuned perk, which do too many things and too good with no investments at all. Who decided buff it more than twice and left it as it is? Yo guys, Batteries isn't really popular perk, how about make it 12% and 20 meters around gens? No? Why?
Why 1 perk should be able to do so many things and to this degree so good?
– Makes exhaustion completely free. Exhaustion perks are last thing in this game that needed such a big buff. Playing against 4 Sprint Burst makes me wonder why I even play some other killers except Blight.
– Still works on killers power. It was problem even before perk was buffed, somehow ignored even after. I stopped playing Freddy just because of this perk.
– Deletes every status effect perk and addon from the match. Last time I tried to go with some meme build and picked Hubris + Enduring, I got robbed 4 times. You know what's even funnier? 2 times it wasn't even person with Vigil, just teammates having 5th super strong perk entity knows why. Every non-meta perk with status effects just punished for existing with even 1 Vigil in match.
– Giving 5th perk to whole team. And this is another stupid buff I don't get. Not only you overbuffed already good perk, but somehow it lingers on me half of the match now with 16 meters. It's very often when I see Vigil effect on me and I don't even see survivor around me. Before you needed at least cooperate together, now you get this effect just for exciting on a map. Got a match on Midwich, where I had Vigil effect 70% of uptime with 2 teammates running this perk. Like ######### is it?
So, with how overpowered perk now, I think it only can be justified by being a Boon. Keep all effects, keep even working on killers powers, but make it Boon. Extremely strong effect, but only on area. Or just completely revert it and let's finally learn a lesson, that we should NOT buff perks based only on pick rate.Counter argument on complaints about buffing or nerfing based on pick rate- BOON: CIRCLE OF HEALING and DISTORTION. Mic drop…
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I just got tunneled hard out of a match; the clown only went after me until i was dead. They are literally going to lose the match now. What was the point?
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I know you asked for a developer, but I do agree that if enough people are reporting 4k slugging it may grab the developers attention. I guess the counter argument to this would be 99ing the gate to prevent the end game timer so you can save a teammate.
I feel like the best counter to 4K slugging was distortion, and I think that’s why they got rid of it, which could mean that the developers are fully OK with 4K slugging. -
Has the conversation been detailed because people are trying to justify slugging and tunneling against 'bullying' or 'toxic' survivor squads? That, because the viewpoint is that until they fix bullying by survivors, tunneling and slugging can't go away?
...And even though, as others have pointed out, they have made adjustments to help resolve squad's that are bullying, it's not fun to play in a game where everyone rage quits against a slugging or tunneling killer. Or that it's completely justified to slug and tunnel; people should be forced to stay in that game?
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IT'S NOT COMING. That was just a distraction to push the perk changes that they didn't reverse …and then now this whole fake more pallets nonsense 😒
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@Gh0st2317 said:
Getting pretty exhausting having to deal with certain killers tunneling or slugging, and I'm finding them WAY too often.
I get that it's a supposed 'strat', but at the end of the day it gets tiring with having to deal with it constantly.
It's to the point that I'd rather wait for 2v8 to come out and play that 24/7. That was the only mode enjoyable for both sides imo.
At most, it will be a perk that will get trashed on social media and then we’ll get nerved heavily.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004259#Comment_4004259
Stealth and the ability to instantly take two health states instead of one. Non-traditional anti-loop.
You can hear Wesker coming from a mile away, not so much with Myers of GhostFace. It isn't really hard to get value out of their stealth either, just need to play slightly more cerebral than you might with another Killer.
If the argument against the anti-tunnel and slugging is that people just need to learn how to play survivor better, or learn counters to killer perks or playstyles, then you know, the counter to that argument has already been typed.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004010#Comment_4004010
ok so killer has 0 hooks, all gens are done, all survivors at full health. can you explain to me how a killer can win that match other than survivors simply allowing the killer to kill them?
As for hatch, many people have openly said they dont care about MMR, its an invisible number. people care about escapes and is seen by majority of players as a win for that survivor that gets the hatch. it rewards BP too. Change the hatch to a sacrifice pit where survivors jump in and they kill themselves….see how many people use it, not many im betting.
Either your new to the game or just flat out being ignorant regarding the god loops. many still exist, even the shack can be used as a god loop v killer with no anti loop and no mobility. They are just not considered "god loops" any more because they now have bloodlust and vault blocking. its only recently they tried removing a god loop from badham map where players could infinitely loop a building and jumping through a window without ever triggering chase so bloodlust didnt trigger.
They removed self unhook because people abused it as a means to go next, but people can still use an offering to gain this 2nd chance back which effects the WHOLE team not just 1 person.
All of this is pointless anyway because comparing kill to survivor is a futile effort, killers can kill, survivors cant. there will be differences between the role. the nature of the killer role is to play untill all survivors are out or dead so need to be able to play the match regardless of how many "fails" the killer gets. survivors get eliminated by design and giving them unlimited ways to play the match to the very end makes no sense.
As far as god loops are concerned many killers, like the unknown, can disregard loops.
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Saja Boys and Huntrix would be awesome! That might bring me back to the game more …Or even if they add more K-pop cosmetics.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
The update, sure, needs tweaks. But why not implement a version with reduced numbers that basically only have impact in specific cases?
6 hooks too many to block gens? Depends on the killer, but reduce it to 4 so that at least someone else needs to be hooked first.
25% being too much of a boost? Drop it to 10%. Barely will have an impact, but it will give survivors some hope of finishing 4 gens if someone dies early.
Anti-slug can be implemented as is, Twins needs a rework anyway. If it needs tweaks, then do so later. Undying was up for 5 months before it got tweaked. Ghoul has been in an annoying state for forever too. Killers can deal with 3 months of anti-slug potentially being a bit too punishing
Keep the basekit bbq and 5% permanent regression bonus per unique survivor hooked too.
THEN tweak the rest around it. Its a baseline that would just make games more than just singularity basically camping with biopods, or a trickster dropping chase because main event is ready and the basekit BT is just a minor obstacle.
But fully delaying it for another 3 months? No. Sorry, Done. I already waited over a year to finally hear an update about a viable basekit anti-slug and some tweaks to anti-tunnel. I've waited 6 months since the emergency abandon feature. If I need to wait for another 3 months, thats going to be 3 months playing something else.It was punishing players for playing…. sarcasm
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Unfortunately, no. Distortion was removed to buff lethal pursuer. After gutting distortion, they made it so everybody starts together.
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@Raccoon said:
There are literally hundreds of videos and thousands of posts demonstrating, with concrete evidence, why the current iteration was not good.
This wall of evidence was so thick that BHVR made a statement a couple of days into the PTB indicating as much.
Objectively, it should not be going live until these issues which, again, have hundreds of captured examples, are addressed.
The foot stomping and whining from some users is simply wild, particularly when no effort is made to refute the very real evidence that exists.
The system is going to be tweaked and brought back in a better form that presumably addresses its current issues - there is no need to be upset or descend into histrionics.
There’s a perspective bias that you’re not considering. There are hundreds of people who support the changes, or maybe they are mostly in support of it with some minor tweaks. The complete abandonment is the problem. Survivors are sick of Behaviour claiming that they have some kind of fix in the works, yet never delivering on it. Saying October to January means they may release some minor perk in 18 months. However, when that perk gets released, killer mains are going to pop off and say that the perk is broken. Criticisms get more views then support.
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@Alice_pbg said:
why did reading this felt like nsp manticore?
@angrychuck said:
Well, that may have been the best writing I've seen on the forums, bravo!
Thanks! Just trying a different approach lol.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997237#Comment_3997237
Its factual information that survivor is better, and its in the stats too for the most part. BHVR caters far too much to bad survivor players, and these changes would've been the mother load of unbalance. I have a 75%+ escape rate, thats not supposed to be happening according to BHVR's target killrate.
That’s not how averages work. I’m sure there are survivors with a 90% escape rate. This would also apply to killers.
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I was going to say that not your fault sexy women are wandering off into the fog to tease you, however, you were stalking them… so, I guess fair is fair.
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Hes basically a tall chucky that can "lunge" around things. He's pig 2.0.
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@AcesSpeedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997477#Comment_3997477
grow a spine! do NOT tell me to use ai.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983376#Comment_3983376
Nah, it's just for playing a crummy playstyle that requires no skill or effort to accomplish.
They always produce killer characters that completely cancel out survivor playstyles like looping. The unknown doesn't even have to interact with small tile loops.
I remember when I used to post suggestions on reddit and people who claimed to be killer-mains would attack me for "acting like I know more than the developers," lol interesting…. given whats being said now.
I wish they had just moved the 2 vs 8 gen-progression/ hooks and unbreakable rules to 1 vs 4 as a place holder until they figure out what they want to do.
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@AcesSpeedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996548#Comment_3996548
i shan't. \\ i'm just over seeing people trying to make it out that they're highly intellectual in the hopes of getting a few upvotes and especially to manipulate ptb feedback. they're using ai slop instead of cultivating their own thoughts like a human being
I think most of the ideas that people post are genuine. I don’t think they’re asking AI to cultivate their ideas. If anything, they may type a bunch of nonsensical words that they ask one of those tools to string together.
I do it sometimes, you should too.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997304#Comment_3997304
Perks on both sides are constantly getting nerfed, adjusted, ot reworked. Streetwise was one of my go-tos. It was totally ruined recently and mostly died in silence thanks to the bug in the rework taking precedence. Vigil is also on the chopping block.
But in terms of game changes, recent examples like fog vials and this patch were all killer-sided. And survivors are STILL getting DC penalties for getting tunneled too fast.
Well also, BOON: CIRCLE OF HEALING!!!!! …they gutted that and all healing around the same time. The discourse on 3-genning was happening during and before that nerf, yet it took them 18 months to address it with the 8-kick rule. Survivor concerns are not addressed with urgency.
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@XboxPlayur said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993605#Comment_3993605
I don’t have too many problems with the slugging changes by themselves tbh even though there are issues. it’s 90s only the first time, after that it’s free get ups with auto-recovery while crawling. This is just going to make getting off a gen and helping your teammate inefficient. Not to mention sabo-squads, while rare, have no counter play now. Sure the beginning of a match will be relatively slow, but after everyone hits the 90s mark through possibly multiple downs, it’s just free get ups. I think the recovery while moving takes away the aspect of “should I recover or crawl to safety” but that’s not too common of a play to be made anyway so it can go away. I keep seeing comments about “well slugging at 5 gens” which I have never done and rarely seen done, but have an easy solution. The new changes stop happening after 1 or maybe even 2 gens are completed.
Now the “anti-tunnel” needs some serious changing all around because it too drastically affects killers ability to simply play the game. Unless you’re a very good player playing a very good killer it’s already so easy with survivor buffs to make tunneling very inefficient, but stacking even more buffs on top of that while simultaneously punishing killers “tunneling” that’s not even really tunneling is just a lot. Not to mention the complexity it’s going to add for new killers to try and figure out. I would be fine if the new changes only affected actual tunnel scenarios: sometimes unhook notification is the only piece of information the killer has against survivors who prerun or are very stealthy, it shouldn’t go away entirely. Maybe instead if you hook a survivor twice in a row, you don’t see the unhook notification the second time. I think the new addition of the elusive status affect on unhook is a better solution than the endurance, especially with the removable of collision. Endurance is too easily abused and encourages bad plays like unhooking in the killers face. The repair buff for a kill before 6 hooks and no regression ability after consecutive hooks is the worst part, not only does it make killers feel like they are being punished for playing well, but it also could easily punish a killer who isn’t tunneling. I would change it to “if a survivor is hooked two times in a row then all survivors receive a temporary repair speed boost and if a survivor is hooked three consecutive times then generators can no longer be blocked or regressed. This punishes actually tunneling and doesn’t incentivize survivors to play poorly.
So, would you be okay if they made it more like the 2 vs 8, where survivors could get up if they were left on the ground for an extended period? …at least to prevent hatch-slugging? …or incorporate changes to the game where once a number of survivors are slugged certain balance changes are integrated to disincentivize toxic slugging?
As far as the anti-tunneling, I personally like a Make Your Choice aspect to the whole, "tunnel or regress gens" aspect. The qualifying mechanics towards activating anti-tunneling could have been adjusted post release.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997177#Comment_3997177
I did not say that.
Did you find the system to be perfect in the PTB? You could find no room for improvement?
I think the complaint is that the finish line has been moved, they have appeased the killer base and made an empty promise to the survivor base.
"For the release of Sinister Grace, we will hold back those features (and their associated perk changes) to iterate on some adjustments based on your feedback. We will test these features again in an upcoming PTB and will release them live when we believe they are ready."
Now that the complaints were rewarded, no matter what the devs do now, the killer mains and social media people will light up if behavior touches tunneling or slugging.
They could have just adjusted the numbers or changed the incentives in future updates, however now, we will unfortunately never know how these changes could have affected the greater dbd community.
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The real concern now is whether they'll actually follow through on slugging and Tunnelling, given how quickly they backed down. And let’s be honest, it also reveals which side of the equation they’re more invested in. When killer mechanics get pushback, it’s a pause and rethink. When survivor QoL gets pushback, it’s a full retreat.
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@XboxPlayur said:
this! People keep saying that there’s no need to worry about the new patch because “it will be changed before live” but the fact that they would even consider pushing this out shows that the devs don’t play their own game. Yes killers have some powerful tools that can be abused, they’re the POWER role. Slugging helps to keep survivors busy doing something other than sitting on a gen. Tunneling usually happens if someone is playing extremely poorly or blantantly obnoxious. Sure these tools can be abused but there are already so many perks survivors can run to counter them. Just adding perk after perk after perk to base kit on both sides feels lazy, uninspired, and frankly is going to make the variety of builds on both sides boring. Why even have perks? Make everybody be able to do the same thing and be done with it.
People seem to be overlooking that it will take around 90 seconds for a slugged survivor to fully recover and get up. If a Killer takes that long to down someone else, they're the one misplaying. I get that the concern is about the 400% gen progression pressure, but that only applies if the Killer is just standing around letting four survivors sit on gens uncontested. That’s not a balance issue, that’s poor decision-making.
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I'd love to see more vault-able upstairs railings added. The house has plenty of dead ends, which is fine, but there aren't many options to jump down from upstairs. I don't see how that would be a disadvantage for killers, since falling usually favors them unless someone's running Balanced Landing.