Is 4 slowdown perks too much?
Unpopular opinion: There should really be a cap of some sort
similar to how survivors can bring multiple exhaustion perks but can’t stack them
there should be something similar put in place for certain slow down perks e.g Call of Brine, Eruption, Overcharge, Pain res ect
Maybe make it so when kicking a gen only 1 regression perks effect will take place, or if a gen is already regressing via Eruption then it can’t be damaged again with perks like Jolt or Pain res until the regression stops
Comments
Remember when loads of slowdown perks got buffed and gens got a base 10 seconds added to their repair time?? Did that, or did that not make SWF easier to deal with?
This would not be an issue if we had 15 min max game
The potential of 30+ min games with CoB + Eruption + any other gen perks to create 3+ slowdown builds is insane!
AND THIS IS BOOOOOOOORING AS #########!!!
Even worse than the original madness doctor!!!
My only thing is, 4 slowdown perks make a 3 gen extremely slow to finish. But survivors who have 1 boon can make a 3 gen significantly easier as survivors no longer need to heal each other and can just run to the opposite side of the map. 1 Survivor Perk out of 16 vs 4 Killer Perks out of 4. If all 4 survivors brought the best possible builds then the 3 gen wouldn't even be an issue.
If Gen regression perks are taken,then bnp and purple toolboxes and hyper focus should be gotten rid of.
Deal!
And at the same time that happened the devs added a perk that allows you to solo gens in sub 50 seconds
I don't understand what you mean, my argument is saying that a killer can't both protect a 3 gen and chase a survivor. If all 4 survivors are alive, the moment a killer comes to the gen they're on, if they pre run the killer really doesn't have much of a choice, if they chase then they're losing their last gen, if they don't then the survivors either gets hit and runs to the boon or the killer doesn't even hit them as they have to run to one of the other 2 gens that the survivors are pressuring.
It doesn't take long for a survivor to get from one side of the map to the other if they pre run + getting the speed boost from being hit
No it is not, Eruption does not need a nerf either, will be trash if nerfed and basically useless. Most of these complaints come from a place of pure salt.
It depends.
Four slowdowns is excessive af, especially on high mobility killers. However, there is a tradeoff the killer is making by not running other types of perks. On another killer (Huntress, for example), I'd rather they run four slowdown than 1-2 slowdown and aura perks.
Imo, stacked slowdown is often annoying, but only really feels oppressive on killers like Nurse/Blight. I've only run four a few times, and only when I was testing how much of a jerk I could be, and not to actually win.
And having a low mobility killer having to stop/break chase all the time to kick gens because they are running CoB/Eruption/Pop, etc. can often be pretty useful.
So yeah, pretty context dependent.
Is gen rushing really that bad to cap it? Seriously.
If regression is capped...
But survivors don't have anything compared to the killer. Most are conditional and have to go out of your way to get them, but killers get their's by doing their main objective.
Eruption — Down a survivor
Pain Res — Hook a survivor
Jolt — Down a survivor
Thana — Injure survivors
These are all "win more" perks. Which can snowball to make 99% generators turn into 40% in a matter of a minute.
Want to know my solution? Do what BHVR did to most haste perks. Each perk gives 7% haste, which gives an artificial cap of 21% for 4 haste perks.
Each regression perks should be 7%, which would artificially cap them to 21%. Then buff the crap out of endgame killer perks because at least then the game aged well and didn't stay at 4 generators for 90% of the match.
I think the part that's unbelievable is regularly getting multiple hooks before any gens go, because it sounds like you're playing against Survivors who've developed a phobia of doing the objective.
If regression is capped , the killers will tunnel and facecamp even more then before.
Have you ever considered your own skill being the problem?
yes, i can't think of any killers where you actually want that much slowdown, you gotta have information perks and/or chase perks too so you can actually get hooks instead of just making the game take longer
What else should I run on the weakest killer in the game? I cant even use all perks, because I have no Terror Radius in Dream. The biggest thing is his teleport, so I should know where to go or where to fake.
Many, many times. But eventually I wised up.
I usually get by running two Gen slowdown perks. I find that I play better that way as well.
Sometimes I'll dabble into more, but they're generally more abstract slowdown like Plaything. Not something like CoB or Thana that directly affect gens.
The only problems for me are Eruption and Pentimento builds. And it's simple to tell why as i mostly play solo.
Solos can't callout when they're almost going down so there is no real counter to Eruption. Solos do archives or cleanse everthing which glows or just do dull totems for Inner Healing, you can't stop that. At least at my level my mates let go from the gen against Pain Res.
Well it entirely relies on interrupting that first gen and wasting their first minute or so of progress. It's a coin flip, like nearly everything in this game.
Point is, not running regression perks isn't a forfeit of the game.
See, that just comes across as 'my strategy works if they don't scarper for multiple gens immediately'.
I lost as killer, and I firmly believe I should have a 5th perk slot so I can run five slowdown perks.
Thing is, the problem is the core game design.
3 gens take 90 seconds (3 survivors split on gens, 1 in chase) as soon as you push 1 survivor off a gen, the other one will take over.
Killer at the start: Find a survivor, chase, hit, recover, chase, hit, recover, pick up, walk to a hook, hook, look for a new survivor, repeat. Let's say at BEST this all takes 60 seconds, you're still soooo far behind. And when people say "Yes, but not all survivors are efficient". Is that a player problem or a game design problem? So against survivors who actually try you should just lose? That doesn't sound right
Killers will always tunnel and facecamp until the devs really focus in punishing these tactics, or make them less rewarding at least.
Remember when most killers said before 6.1.0 that they were tunneling/camping only because they were forced with the 80sec gens?.
And then bhvr upped gen times and buffed gen regressing perks and killers tunneled more than ever because they got more time to do it.
Cap on slowdown? Sure, right after applying extra 30 seconds on gen time, survivors gonna like it.
Well thats the difference between competitive and casuals.Its mmr fault a bunch of casual play vs Blight with the most broken stuff
I think the first thing BHVR needs to do is to increase the base Gen regression then work out the regression perks
Make the Gen times 80 charges... then work on Gen slowdown perks (Thanatophobia, Dying Light, Gift Of Pain)
Fix maps then work on Gen blocking perks (DMS, Deadlock, Corrupt, Thrilling Tremors)
But all of that will take time (possibly a recoding of the game) to do... so capping Gen regression and Gen progression seems like the best thing for the game as of right now
Yes as far as Solo's go most of what Survivors have are conditional
But SWF's don't have that conditional element
Eruption- kick Gens and hope they don't finish the Gen(s)
Pain Res- Hooking a Survivor on a specific Hook
Jolt- Downing a Survivor around incomplete Gens
Thana- Yes injuring Survivors... but keeping them injured
Now see if you said Dying Light I would've agreed with you...
4man SWF is not the average survivor.
That's apart of my point though
How is the Killer supposed to know
Plus how are the Survivors supposed to know who the Killer is and how to counter the perks used... or even what perks the other Survivors are using
Survivors themselves don't even know when their team has a duo or triple SWF and that can also be miserable.
I've never been against survivros knowing each other's perks and if survivors knew who the killer is it would make the game more manageable but I don't think most people here want to have their killer known (even if their perks remain a secret). If I was playing against Plague I'd know to not bring a medkit and I'd probably bring a toolbox.
That wasn't the point I was making. My point was that the 4 slowdown build is usually defended because you cannot know when you play against SWF and I was simply saying that 4 man SWF which is what people mean when they say SWF (does anyone ever really complain about duo SWF unless they're running flashlights and going for locker saves which is out of the game anyway?), when it's the smallest group of players as far as survivors go but people either forget or don't wanna account for solo survivors which are at least 50% and might be even more who this build affects even more.
I see where you are coming from, but let's be real here, most killers can work around most conditions. If it was that much of a hassle, would killers use regression perks at all?
Don't get me wrong, I think regression perks have a place in DBD, but using four of them is outrageous. I know you want to win, who doesn't? But can both sides come together and say this isn't healthy for the game? Survivors (especially SoloQ coff coff ERUPTION) are having to do an additional 1 - 3 extra generators, and killers can't use other cool perks without putting themselves at a disadvantage. Both sides clearly aren't happy.
If each regression perk only gave 7% instant progress loss + regression afterwards, it would help out a lot. Then we can make endgame killer perks better, and other chase related perks to help shorten chase (which is more fun and indirectly helps with time management for the killer).
Same with boons, boons are so broken I don't know why they are in. You can remove all gen slow perks, do the same for boons please.
Yea I don't agree with the 4 regression perk builds either
I think so as well... But if they increase the Base Gen regression then they should be able to do more with regression perks
Again I think that if they do that then they can focus on what each regression perk does...
Call Of Brine could have increased Gen regression but take longer to kick and can only be applied to one Gen at a time
Eruption could make the Gen that was effected by Eruption unrepairable for 15 seconds (Give or take)
Overcharge could do the same as it does now... But 25% Gen regression to 100% Gen regression
Ruin could either do 50% Gen regression but stays active until cleansed or 100% Gen regression but deactivate apon a Survivors death
Oppression could do 100% Gen regression on the Gen kicked and 50% Gen regression on the other Gens effected
But those are just off the top of my head changes I would do... Please be nice to me
Okay, here's what kicking a generator currently does:
▪︎Causes 2% progress loss
▪︎Applies regression at -0.25c/s
I would be fine with buff these numbers to -5% progress loss and -0.4c/s if we tone down regression perks. Additionally, I'd like to see endgame perks buffed and other chase related killer perks.
Call of Brine
Kicking a generator causes it to regress 0.25c/s faster than normal for 40/50/60 seconds.
Additionally, if a survivor stops repairing during that time, the generator will begin regressing.
Eruption
After kicking a generator, it becomes trapped until triggered.
When putting a survivor into the dying state by any means, all trapped generators trigger, blocking for 10/15/20 seconds.
Any survivor within 12 meters to these blocked generators will have their aura revealed.
Overcharge
After kicking a generator, it begins regressing at 0.25c/s up to 0.5c/s over 45 seconds.
The next survivor that touches this generator will have to face 3/4/5 continuous skill checks.
Ruin
No changes.
Oppression
Shorten cool-down to 60/50/40 seconds and make the skill checks continuous (5 of them) to other generators.
Wait are these your changes???
I'd remove the -2.5% for every kick
Call Of Brine- Just make it increase regression remove everything else and put it on Surveillance
Eruption- Just make it so any Survivor can't repair any Gens effected... we need to stop with the Gen blocking perk at this point
Also Blocked Gens don't regress... or they could make it so regression is applied to the Gens once the Blocked Gens aren't blocked anymore if not tapped
Overcharge- I can get behind
Ruin- Fair enough
Oppression- I can also get behind
Which boons are broken? Dark Theory or Exponential?
I'd be completely fine with multiple slowdown not stacking if the same thing applied to survivors speed up effects.
Prove thyself and a toolbox? Nope. Just one.
Medkit and we'll make it? Nope. Just one.
Got sprint burst? No haste effect after getting unhooked.
Currently that happens to be mostly gen slow down because most of the information or chase perks that exist quite frankly aren't good enough to save you as much time in chase or search as you would save just throwing another slow down on. Meaning we should be buffing most the chase/information perks to be on par.
What chase perks do killer have that are relevant? Enduring spirit fury is too slow. PWYF has cooldown for gaining stacks and 3 stack limit. Coup the grace is too safe of chasing perk. Fire-up action speed is 4%, too small numbers for non-existent benefit. Most of instant down non-hex perks are highly conditional. Hubris is newest perk and it has 20 second of exposed.... Dragon grip has too long of cooldown. Make your choice becomes too obvious to be consistent. Trail of torment grants undetectable, but shows aura of the generator, defeating the purpose of the perk. Hysteria grants 30 seconds of oblivious but only on healthy to injured survivors, not every hit. Deathbound is another meme-tier oblivious perk.
Most of the misc-type perks are just not very good. dev are too safe with all the killer perks. Too scared of Merciless storm becoming too strong.
As a solo survivor, I don't mind it that much tbh. If it causes the game to drag then it can get a bit frustrating but in general it keeps me on my toes.
I agree there are a number of lackluster chase perks, but there are good ones as well. STBFL, lethal pursuer, bamboozle, superior anatomy, I'm all ears, and blood favor are anywhere from decent to great in just about any match. All focused on shortening chases, or getting into chase quickly.
I'm all ears, bamboozle and superior anatomy are all perks for windows. the more experienced you become at killer, the more you will avoid bs windows like garden of joy, autohaven fun-bus, haddonfield windows while learning to mindgame T-L type windows without needing the perk. Hex: blood favor is a hex perk. Hex perks do not last very long though effect is alright. Speaking of perks that do not last very long, Lethal pursuer is arguably worst hex perk because this aura perk lasts for 9 seconds and then disappears for entire game. whats more annoying about the recent buff to this perk is that they use this perk as justification to making other perks have low linger-aura numbers such as new Knight Hex:Face the darkness perk that has whopping 2 seconds of aura reading and then the perk sucks anyway with its -buffed- 4 second aura reading.
Lastly, STBFL feels like a perk that should just be base-kit to every killer without using a perk slot. Weakens boring second-chance endurance & Health-state shift-w gameplay. This is like only chase-perk that killer use that has mild semblance of being useful. I just wish more chase-oriented perks were more effective rather then these more boring gen-defence type perks.
Survivors also want more chase oriented perks for survivors. I didn't like Vittorio's gen perks.
Yeah that's basically what I'm saying. All the chase or information perks for killer are mostly all bad or way undertuned to be relevant bar some small exceptions.
information perks? I mean nowhere to hide is 24 meter aura reading for 5 seconds after damaging a generator. BBQ is global aura reading after hooking. SC: Flood of rage is global wallhacks on unhook. Discordance triggers when 2 survivors on a generator. Whispers can help find the last survivor in the trial, though no way out does what whispers does but better. Surveillance highlight a generator in yellow when a survivor touches a regressing generator. Infectious fright makes survivor scream in terror radius. I would not say the info perks are under-tuned in the sense they do not find people.
it is more that finding survivor is not main struggle of killer. its just base-line to be good at killer in my opinion.
Without the BP bonus, BBQ kinda sucks. It only tells you about people far away, who A) might move anyway, and B) are, y'know, far away. It's not repeatable without more downs, and often gives no real useful info.
Depends on the killer tbh, Like for instance on Artist i run Agitation , DMS , PR, Hex: Face the darkness or sometimes CoB. She doesn't need chase perks and info is already pretty good for her. So only really leaves slowdown and minimal info / utility perks at least for me.
that is why people use it only on mobility killers... like blight with his blighted rushes but those killer work with 4 slowdown perks as well.