I think this patch shows a LOT about survivors
To put things to rest immediately, I play both sides equally. I have nearly 3K hours (yeah not as much as you 15K monsters) but I can safely say that this patch shows just how much survivors relied on being overall busted for 6 years straight. There are so many players just not playing the game because they can't get gens done and bully the killer at the same time now and seeing so many people complain about it is honestly awful to see. The reason the kill rates were so low was that survivor was busted for 6 long years. Thinking otherwise is just... Showing how blind you are. The devs finally said "Alright, we're gonna make changes for the better." And now this game is actually balanced! Yet so many players are literally trying to change the stats so they revert it. Unfortunately the only thing to say to these survivors is... Get good lmao. It's as simple as that. Stop being childish and complaining over huge changes that were bound to happen if the devs cared about the game.
Comments
"Nurses, blights, other S-tier" - aftermath of having tiers on killers. You can't phisically reach higher mmr with certain killers. Thats the part of bad balancing imo. Not the killer main issue.
How much are Unbreakable and DS going to do for any given survivor if you just counterplay either? DS cannot fire if you don't tunnel. Unbreakable can't fire if you just pick up whoever you downed. If there's other survivors trying to distract you from picking up the UB user, good: It's a one use perk, and you've got at least half the survivors unable to work on gens for a prolonged period of time.
Dead Hard was a problem, sure, but after the conspicuous action nerf, DS purely functions as a counter to tunnelling, and Unbreakable functioned in support of that. If you're complaining about DS after the conspicuous action nerf, YOU are the problem, not DS.
My friend, you were not playing killer much before update.=)
Do you need a hug?
I’d say an attitude that defines players as scum for just playing the game In a manner that you don’t like, is a bigger problem than a few lopsided mechanics.
No amount of buffs or nerfs can fix a bad attitude. This kind of attitude is the basis for most of the game toxicity.
Oh but it's not me playing those killers, I mostly play Freddy and Pig.
I'm talking about the killers I am facing.
These statements aren't helpful at all like you, I play both sides at 50/50 and it's true at the start that there were a lot of dc's. However, I've noted my teams are becoming better, strategising and communicating a lot more. My last match was a 4k escape against a decent Wraith, and it was because we were fully communicating as best we could using pointing and other methods, where we managed to get out of a 3 gen we found ourselves in. It was tough, but we did it.
Some players are dicks, and those dicks split amongst survivors and killers. It's not the side, it's the individual. And it's far better to practoce empathy. My experiences have been good on both sides, but if I were to assume that everyone else needed to "gitgud" just because of what I had, without understanding their opinions are equally valuable and personal, is poor.
Basically, these comments widen divides, and really people need to listen more as to why the others feel a certain way and then work together. Nowhere near all survivors are quitters.
Would you prefer 5 mins?
I mean isn’t more game time more fun?
I love sitting in a 20 min queue for a 5 min game as much as the next person but somehow the reverse seems more enjoyable.
That was the mmr rework. Ranks don’t count for matchmaking anymore.
Rather you have a hidden number that goes up or down based on kills/escapes.
I personally think this is too narrow a metric to use, but it’s what we’ve got.
If you back through the patch notes I’m sure you’ll find the update information.
Around about patch 4.5.0 if I’m not mistaken.
You are right that people need to adjust. I'm solo and my fav perks are fixated, we'll make it, bond, and spine chill... The only thing upsetting my matches right now are DCs :(
I think we need to give this patch at least until Halloween to really see if its an overall improvement.
I do want to add that I think DS should be reverted and borrowed time off hook should just be what the perk is now. It's just too small a timer currently imo.
Oh good god the good old "just don't tunnel 4head" argument. My dude there's a reason both perks are top tier. They buy time. Sometimes you have no choice but to tunnel. Survivors can FORCE that. The only reason dead hard came above them was the amount of times it could be used. But DS unbreakable alone bought so much time. Every second chance perk forced you to alter your objective so you didn't get punished.
And you have no business blaming a single perk and ignoring everything else killers got.
Baseless, narrow-minded pov that fails to see past its own MMR bracket.
Play selfishly means I only care about my escape.
You must be an amazing solo q teammate
Typical main survivor if all you took out of all that was the bully side lmao such narrow minded thinking....
It only isnt impactful because you dont want to admit how much easier it got for you, so you can still tunnel and camp freely and blame it on "killer so hard survivor op".
As much as I hated that combo and want to support you, but I hate claims like "an infant could beat a killer with that" or "any killer with 20 functional brain cells can 4k everytime" even more. Staaaaphhhh
I did. A lot. I play both sides a LOT. I've been playing since 2017
So do you want me to say survivor second chances take skill???? Cuz they didn't. None of them do. In fact they reward failure.
Why not say "DH+Unbreakable+DS was an unbelievable strong combo that was nearly impossible to go against"? Some general information, less hyperboles that take some credibility out of your post, just because they shoot too high.
I guess that, even though this combo is super strong, no toddler would even manage to escape a single trial.
"Nice assuming" he says as he assumes right after how I play. Ironic.
How did it force you to do that?
The only way you're going to get a survivor with DS is if you tunnel off-hook, or they wasted a ton of their time keeping DS up. All it takes is pulling off the unhooked and going for the unhooker. The moment-to-moment pressure will be roughly the same.
But DS unbreakable alone bought so much time.
And even with all that, tunnelling still proved extremely effective. Even with DS, people would still insist that it's a valid strategy and more effective than 12-hooking, which is what the game is designed around.
If you want to tunnel, tunnel. But don't whinge about DS, a perk whose ONLY purpose is to punish tunnelling, punishing your tunnelling. And if your opinion is that tunnelling needs to be completely unrestricted in its application, and its counterperks should be removed, then survivors will need colossal buffs to accommodate for this drastic shift in balance-point.
Also: yes, even though many second chance perks were pretty strong and rather easy to apply in most cases, the claim that they require "zero skill, all of them" is just wrong. There are multiple, funny compilations of survivors DHing into walls or corners and you could waste your Unbreakable by standing up right in front of the killer and getting downed again; with some modicum of skill or game sense you might wait till the killer picked someone else up.
I know about the MMR rework, i'm not a moron, you can't see your MMR and we have no idea how this system works. Take a look at my post count, hours, and stats before you talk down to me.
The person here was claiming that only escapes and kills count and nothing else. I'm simply stating that in my experience that is not the case, because i played dozens of games after a few months break and only escaped literally 1 or 2 games (and both of those were through the hatch) and had potato teammates almost every game, but still personally played well, pipping nearly every match. Now i suddenly have very competent teammates with hundreds or thousands of hours and have been escaping nearly 50% of the time in solo queue the past few days.
The only possible explanation for this, is that i played well, my MMR increased (despite not escaping) and now i'm getting good teammates.
Anyone who says "it is only based on kills/escapes" isn't citing any sources for which BHVR actually explained that this is how it works. The only information we have right now, is that the "hatch doesn't count" which doesn't mean that it only counts escapes, it just means the hatch doesn't count.
The problem is that everyone always sees escaping as "you won" but the reality is, you can win without escaping if you play well in very other area.
Not a single killer, who played that long, will say that "killer was easier, than soloq". If so, they never faced a good survivors once.=)
Again this argument.
Will you also tell people who play weak killers to just play nurse instead? That fixes nothing.
I don't play too selfishly (as else we are toast) but I don't care too much about the outcome. I get about 50% escapes.
I also play solo q about 50% of the time and it has been fine. Solo q will always bring some miserable matches, but it’s definitely not worse than before the update.
There may have been a newer stream that said different but around the 25 minute mark of this stream they say it is NOT based solely on kills and escapes.
https://youtu.be/civV99mXFXo
wel. Apparently the vod of the dev Q&A where Andrew stated it has been removed from twitch.
This is the best I could find. Someone used a clip of Andrew making the statement in a YT video. you should easily find it by searching "kills equal skill dbd". It's the one withaAndrews face in the thumbnail and was posted February.
I don't see how more game time equates to fun. Don't know what you're trying to get at, but you and I both know that 5 minute games against a swf with god tier toolboxes and forever legion with 4 gen perks aren't exactly fun or enjoyable. So whatever you're attempting to do to prove your point isn't working and won't work.
Dead Man's Switch
Deadlock
Grim Embrace
Surge/Jolt
Ruin
Pain Resonance
Thrilling Tremors
Thanatophobia
Merciless Storm
Corrupt Intervention
Gift Of Pain
Pentimento
All the killer perks I listed are slowdown perks that work without the killer having to interact with generators. The majority of them are popular in slowdown builds as well.
The point was made that “I don’t know how you find 20 min games balanced”
Its a fair point, but at the same time in a misbalance that leads to more game time vs less game, such as fast gens leading to short games. I’ll take the former because more game time is more fun time in game.
playing the game is fun, or at least it’s meant to be but you wouldn’t think it, the way this crowd acts.
So more time in game and less time in queue is a good thing. My point works perfectly fine if you enjoy the game.
Your comment begs the question why do you play dbd if you don’t seem to derive any fun from it? That seems like a foolish use of time.
Take a step back mate and lower your fists, no one was talking down to you.
You asked about BHVR quoting that only escapes/kills effect mmr.
Well it’s in the patch notes when they made the mmr changes. Also multiple threads had mods stepping in to say that rank has nothing to do with match making these days.
You’ll probably see correlations between higher rank and better play from team mates because rank is just time spent online basically. But correlation doesn’t mean causation. You’ll get plenty of garbage players at high ranks too.
But pipping and what rank you are plays no part in it as far as BHVR has stated. Which is what was asked.
Just for fun though let’s imagine you are a moron, purely hypothetical, then no amount of posts would change that. You’d just have a collection of moronic posts so post history data isn’t really that relevant to the point. Quantity doesn’t always equate to quality is what I’m getting at.
Yup, people are 100% bad at the game. I hope that clears things up.
The patch notes simply talk about the MMR system existing, they don't go into detail about how it works. My response was clearly about how we don't have any evidence that it only looks around kills and escapes. So at this point it is clear that it is NOT just about kills and escapes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civV99mXFXo&t=25m10s
Which is what my point is, that you don't have to escape to increase your MMR and stop getting potato teammates. They even double down on this by stating unequivocally that there is more to it than kills and escapes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civV99mXFXo&t=1540s
I ended up finding a source thanks to someone here. But it appears that you are incorrect. There is more to it then kills and escapes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civV99mXFXo&t=1540s And they clearly state that it is more than just kills and escapes, that they tried it, and it turned out to be bad, so it isn't the version that we even got when they put it live. So at this point i think my original point still stands.
If you get potato teammates, just play the best you can, and your MMR will increase to where it should be. Instead, people whine on the forums and suicide on hook instead of playing resulting in them continuing to stay in low MMR because they aren't trying to get out.
Im sorry but it is only based on escapes through the gates indeed. You are confusing it with pipping.
Did you literally not watch the video where they talk about the MMR system? its literally a 20 second clip Let me transcribe it for you since apparently that is too much for you:
Not_Queen: We are saying it's NOT based solely on kills and escapes, you wanna repeat that?
Patrick: It is not. I will repeat that super clear, it is NOT just kills and escapes, it is not, it is not. We tried it, it was bad. That didn't even go out live to you guys. We knew right away it was bad, so we didn't do that.
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you. 😝
Just because they are after me does not mean they will get anything from it. I just brutalized some nasty boil over/breakout sabo squad. Can't c me.
Uh... what?
Must have been bad a killer before the update I suppose. Only thing that was broken is SWF and you must never play solo. Please say you do because we all know you be lying.
Thats from one year prior (Feb 2021) and reflects an approach that was ultimately not implemented into the game. I started playing after SBMM was introduced so it's all just history for me anyway but afaik there were many months of testing before they settled on the current version. But you did have the right idea to check yt for the stream recording. I found the one the article was referencing (Oct. 2021): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIocxDbQ-9g It's what Andrew says from 22:50 on.
"There is a common misconception that by looking only at kills and escapes to adjust your MMR it's [SBMM is] 'ignoring' skill in the game. This isn't the truth. This is false. Kills and escapes are proxies for skill in that skilled play inherently leads to kills or escapes."
It follows the infamous Hockey example and the even more infamous sentence "Skilled play leads to wins. If they don't * insert shrug emoji * were they really skilled plays? Right? If your skilled play doesn't get you the win, was it really a skilled play to begin with?"
It goes on for a minute or two where he really makes it absolutely clear that counting anything other than kills and escapes leads to "really weird math" that doesn't work.
I love these comments when I personally think the new DH is better than the old one and other than that all my perks haven't changed lol
The matchmaking is the biggest problem. In dbd you cannot carry bad teammates. If they get chased first you lose, it's that simple. They need to fix matchmaking. If a killer is downing someone in 20 seconds, that survivor should not have been in the game.
In it, they state they were looking at taking team results into account as well. Additionally, nowhere in there do they actually state that the system ONLY looks at kills and escapes, he is simply stating that the system tries to predict a win or loss which is based on kills and escapes. Not necessarily that doing well in other areas doesn't contribute to having a win.
You are trying to look at things that are correlated and prove causation, which is not the case.
BHVR has already confirmed how the MMR works long time ago. Killers only gain MMR if they kill, Survivors only gain MMR if they escape. What you do during a match has literally nothing to do with MMR. And you don't just gain 1 point per kill/escape, you gain x amount of points based on the oppent's MMR if you kill/escape. If you still have doubt, you can do the research yourself instead of assuming things based on your experience, and thinking everyone here is lying to you.
I came back from a 7 months break for this patch. Solo to me is relatively unchanged other than the DCs and giving up on first hook I'm seeing. Killer feels a heck of a lot better now though but some of the changes made are a little questionable to me but do make me wonder what kind of buffs or new perks are going to be introduced next patch that might negate or better balance some of the buffs from patch 6.1.0
I have been playing this game since Beta, and I play both sides, have almost all killers. I also think killer was easier than solo q, I won most of my matches, so I couldn't be in low MMR and never faced good survivors. If you think solo q was somehow still stronger than killers, maybe you are the issue here.