No ED doesn't have realistic counterplay
No ED doesn't have that much counter-play because of the random nature of the totem spawns. There might be 20+ possible totem spawns on the map, some are easy, some are hard, some are common, others more rare.
Nancy was my first survivor I leveled up and I've always run Inner Strength. Trust me I'm a good totem hunter, but in my almost 200 hours played I don't even think I've seen all the totem spawns in game yet. I know where to look and usually cleanse two to three totems per match, but every once and awhile I get a game where I can't even find one for the life of me because teammates cleanse the easy ones and there's like 1 or 2 super hard ones left. (Lerys, Hawkins and the Game are a nightmare sometimes).
You really shouldn't expect survivors to know the totem spawns on every map, every time. It's not realistic and it's not intuitive. Also, it always has a randomness factor, because you could get an easy map with easy spawns or a hard map with hard spawns. And the killer has no control over what they get.
Comments
Ok so you are complaining about how 5 totems is a waste of time because it takes you away from gens having to find them and you don't wanna get rid of your good perks (like head on lmao) to put on a perk to help you locate totems like small game or det. hunch yet your ideal solution for this problem is to put 8 Totems on the map instead of 5?!!! are you mentally challenged? do you know how math works? how you gonna sit here and complain about having to waste time destroying 5 totems and then suggest a fix to that is adding 3 more just so you know if noed is being ran or not? okay so 8 totems get added when noed is being played so you know to run around and destroy 8 friggin totems! so then why not just assume NOED is being played every match and just run around and destroy 5 totems? seriously these are your words you said it would be a good idea if noed is being ran then 8 totems be spawned so you know you need to destroy totems and in that scenario you are running around destroying 8 totems instead of 5......seriously if that is your idea then it would be a hell of a lot easier on ya in the long run to just shut up buck up and find and destroy the 5 totems every match if you are worried about NOED....smh "i don't wanna have to find 5 totems every match and destroy them and i don't wanna change my perks so devs why don't you just put 8 totems on the map when noed is being run!" seriously ######### are you smoking bud cuz i definitely need some.
You think it's fair to have NOED's design catered to you because you don't want to do anything to prevent it's activating? This says a lot. You're not gonna use a counter perk for a perk you're so highly concerned about, yet want to naturally counter it because you think you should be able to counter anything the killer takes a risk of using while not taking any risk yourself. And the biggest bit of irony is that you can do exactly that.
There are 3 ways to counter NOED
1) Cleanse all dull totems before end game
2) Cleanse the hex totem at end game
3) And the final method is so braindead easy that it's just proof that entitled survivors have gotten so spoiled thinking that getting everybody out alive should be an easy task handed to them on the silver platter. Once you realize that the killer has NOED, JUST ######### LEAVE!
It does have counterplay. Do bones.
If you are struggling to find bones, there are perks to help with that
200 hours played? Well theres issue number one right there. Also play killer a bit. Killer mains who were around before Ruin was nerfed are probably the best totem hunters in the game. Get game knowledge and you won't even need the perk. Usually when NoEd goes off on me I can find it within a few minutes if even.
Heres an idea, do bones.
Use a map.
Use detectives hunch.
Use small game.
Do. Bones.
Focusing on the back half of this comment, survivors have been throwing fits because of anything that causes you to have to be on gens longer, any perk that rewards the killer for "cheap" tactics (aka slugging, camping, tunneling etc..) and any perk that the "rewards the killer for playing badly" so what perks are killers allowed to run? Or should we simply get rid of all killer perks because they are all simply too busted to be used?
Dang! A space makes all the difference. The title said NO ED doesn’t have realistic counterplay. I read it as: No, ED doesn’t have.....
Im sitting here thinking ED? What perk is ED? I must’ve forgotten about one. The only ED I’m aware of is.....um, inappropriate.
had to read several responses before I finally realized this was about NOED! Lmao!
Does NOED prevent you from looping or hiding? Can it not be taken out of the game entirely, prematurely even? How much more counterplay is needed here?
Thats the point. You shouldnt come across it in "normal gameplay" all totems shouldnt be right next to an objective or in the middle of the open. They should be hidden. And you looking for it wastes time on gens. Thus gives slowdown as intended. Dont care for totems and wanna gen rush? Then NOED might be a problem for you. Would reccomend Detectives Hunch.
Or a Freddy. Small Game detects Dream Pallets.
Imagine complaining about NOED in the current state of the game. 😂😂😂
So far the ONLY good idea for changing NOED I've seen while keeping it a threat but more balanced is:
No One Escapes Death:
A Hex rooting its power on hope. You are animated by the power of your Hex Totem when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.
Once the Exit Gates are powered, if there are any Dull Totems remaining on the Map, this Hex is applied to them.
While Hex: No One Escapes Death is active your Movement as well as your missed and successful attack recovery speeds are increased by 3/4/5 % per active totem.
The Hex effects persist as long as a related Hex Totem is standing.
This way the killers don't instant down every survivor which gives healthy survivors their 3 second 150% movement speed burst after getting hit, while boosting the killers aggressiveness and giving them a better chance of downing a survivor before they reach the exit gate. Currently without something like NOED, hitting a healthy survivor half a map away from an open exit gate pretty much ensures that the killer won't be able to catch them before they leave unless they make a routing mistake, and this change reduces that safe distance to being only a quarter of the map away. It's still countered the same way current NOED is (12 seconds per dull totem x 5 dull totems = max of 1 minute of game time and a max possible minimum of around 24 seconds), and unlike current NOED it allows healthy survivors a chance at getting a hook rescue in the endgame.
In order for a killer to get the most usage out of it they'd have to pair it with fully stacked STBFL, PWYF, and Unrelenting, which would make for a pretty terrible build meant only for the endgame and still under the condition that the exit gates get powered first. If NOED was changed this way, I can see it being more balanced and making the end game more intense without feeling like its an instant win or "crutch" trump card.
I get where you're coming from, and honestly I think you just need to play more. The more you play the more accustomed to Totem spawns you'll get. I'm nearing 1,000 hours and I don't have any issues getting all of the hexes down before the last gen pops. Using a Map with Red Twine, Detective's Hunch, and/or Small Game helps as well.
Small game.
It took me entirely too long to figure out what perk ED was.
Obsly you can't find them on your own. And on some maps they are pretty hard to find. Even tho you are in 12 meter range you can't them, because they are so hidden. So use Small Game if you have trouble with that.
Imo NOED has a good counter and it doesn't need more. 4 survivors should find 5 totems. It is not that hard.
you can also bring a map ( even green maps have addons to track totems)
Small Game counters Ruin, NOED, Devour Hope, Trapper, Hag, and Freddy but yeah she's useless. Okay 200 hour Nancy.
I knew it. I knew she was a Decisive Striker. You'll get more use out of Small Game than Head On. Which is way more situational than something you'll get use out of every single match.
Talk to your Doctor if you have erections lasting longer than 6 hours.
Some counters for NoED...
Break totems
Stealth: Don't get found
Dead Hard when found(Does require being injured previous to NoED activating)
Looping
Escaping Chase
When caught with NoED, and slugged: Unbreakable
There are counters to NoED, you just don't like them. You want the game to cater to your desired play style. It's not. You don't want to change your perks build but there are Survivors and killers who can play a match with 0 perks and still escape/4k respectively. Instances of killers who use NoED and then camp/slug are not going to change if NoED gets changed, they will still camp and slug because they want to.
Endurance is so stronk tho rite? Run full STONKS build
Completely different discussion. Nice derail. :)
Id try out detective's hunch. I can understand when the totem thats in the corner of a swamp map goes unnoticed or something, but detective's hunch has a large enough range to cover the majority of the map each time it goes off (or even the FULL map if your standing in the middle). If you take on the middle gen right away, you can uncover the location of every totem on the map. Bringing a map with you can also record this information so you can check it again after the perk wears off. This is a pretty reliable counter to ALL Hex perks in the game.
OPs issue is that he doesn't want to change his perk build. Any viable solution that requires them using Small Game or Det. Hunch falls on deaf ears.
Read the rest of the thread after the fact. The title says there is no realistic counterplay while the comments after the initial post pretty much just fills in the words "that I want to do". Theres plenty of counters to totem perks, although personally I wouldnt mind a totem counter in the form of a sound effect that plays when a totem is broken.
This game has plenty of counter play perks and such that might not always get use. With Oni for example, we got blood echo which can counter exhaustion perks...if exhaustion perks are in play. Exhaustion perks are common and popular though (much like totem perks), so bringing a counter in your loadout is often worthwhile.
Imagine thinking that Head on is a meta perk
Totems are easier to locate if you know where to search in each quadrant yes. (this is based on Haddonfield)
But that's the point of any Hex, It SHOULDN'T be found so soon. But if you look in each quadrant (Since roughly 1 totem will spawn in each quadrant) you will eventually find all the totems in no time. Also to remind everyone, a Hex is a curse & like all curses you have to complete a certain goal to abolish that curse. And finding them is that hard task you have to choose to do to abolish it.
So I hope this helps why the Totem argument is invalid.
If you have any questions about this map above let me know in the nicest way possible.
if you can find a totem within 12 m of you, even without Small Game, just run around the whole map, it won't take a lot of time.
If you can't... run Small Game, Detective's Hunch or bring a map. Ez pz.
All maps are not bigger than 128m. Survivors run at 4m/s. You can use Detective's Hunch 64m scanner to scan all totems after doing 1 gen.
ez
I forgot about the dream pallets...lol. Is there anything Small Game can't do?
Well, it also detects Hag traps and Freddy Snares.
Yep, I knew about the hag ones, but totally forgot about Freddy.
I absolutely hate getting caught by NOED. It always feels cheap and undeserved that my 1st hit ends with a hook and most of the time in random matches, my death because survivors leave at the first opportunity.
What I decided to do, was run small game and become the totem hunter in every game. It helped me learn spawn spots and some interesting little hiding spots on the map. It also makes totem hunting quicker, as instead of blindly searching all around an area, small game allows me to leave areas alone until I get a notification. Added bonus, you get 1k bp per totem cleansed now.
If for whatever reason, I wanted to run 4 other perks, then I bring a map. With them changing spawn points alomost every update and me hating NOED, I will do all I can to stop it.
The other bonus, I get to clear whatever hex the killer may have brought in too, I also help get rid of haunted ground early in the game.
What I don't do, is come here whining that something can't be done, when it clearly can, 4 things in fact
1) Clear the totems
2) Run small game to find them sooner
3) Run detectives hunch to locate them
4) Bring a map
It's absolutely your choice. Do all you can to stop NOED from happening or risk being hit by NOED
The best idea by far for changing NOED, is not changing NOED
Unless it's bedlam that has some of the most insane spawn spots finding totems is easy asf. I notice most in a chase and make a mental note. But then again I'm better at finding totems that gens on certain maps.
Power move: Add skill checks to totem cleansing.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe NOED needs to get changed either, I like having the threat of a limited time OP hex perk that rewards the killer for survivors laziness, but lets be honest here, the devs are eventually going to cave in to all of these complaints and nerf it (they did so for nurse, spirit, original Mori's, STBFL, DS, BT, SC, and recently Ruin). If it's going to get nerfed no matter how much its discussed, I'd rather we at least advise some creative suggestions that will make it so that it isn't completely nerfed into the ground and becomes utterly useless. Take the Idea I wrote down for example:
It rewards the killer with 5% movement and attack speed recovery for every uncleansed dull totem when it activates, which means that if the survivors don't cleanse any totems the killer gets a whopping 25% boost, if they cleanse 2 totems the killer gets 15%, and so on. Either way, by endgame if any totems aren't cleansed then the killer will get a bonus at varying amounts depending upon how lazy the survivors are, and since it won't have the exposed effect anymore, this gives the survivors a better chance at rescuing teammates during the endgame, while also makes the killer more threatening. In all likelihood the average game will end with the killer having only 2-3 totems left due to how lax survivors are at cleansing totems currently, and dealing with a 10-15% speed boosted killer is still no walk in the park, but feels more fair than insta-downs.
Bottom line: With an increased influx of complaints like this, Current NOED's days are numbered, and as much as I'd love to argue tooth and nail about how balanced it is, I've just come to accept that it's going to get changed, and when that Happens I'd rather have been someone that helped steer the change in the right direction than one who either did nothing or just argued without adding anything to what would be otherwise constructive feedback.
Imagine having problems with NOED
This post was made by the holding M1 on bones with detectives hunch gang.
I just memorize the totem spawn's. However I do think NOED is a pathetic perk. "Ive played bad this whole game but now I get a speed boost and I can insta down everyone". That's called being rewarded for being trash. I refuse to use it. Waste of a perk slot.
I mean, detective's hunch lets you see half the map every time a gen pops and you get 1k bp from each one, which is more than a full gen iirc.
Noed is Only powerful at end game. Stop with dumb complaints. Seriously shut up. It's a bad perk and is only used in just for fun builds or beginner killers.
@gatsby Small game isn't useless and let's be honest here, you keep saying "if I'm within 12m of a totem I can already find it. I don't need a noise notification."....well, your bitter post proves that you obviously cannot find them and that you do in fact need a notification. NOED has multiple counterplays in game. Adrenaline, Sprint burst, detectives hunch, small game, cleansing all totems. You're asking for counterplay where counterplay already exists in abundance.