The reason for the Doctor rework shows a strong pro-survivor bias
From this well made summary of the recent dev stream.
"They decided to update Doctor next because he’s the most annoying killer to play against."
He was not changed because he was weak and people struggled to play as him. No. He was changed because survivors found him "annoying" in the incredibly rare instance a killer decided they wanted to suffer playing as him. Probably why we have had so many Legion changes recently, to make them less "annoying" for survivors to go against. Meanwhile very weak killers like the Clown are not "annoying" will likely be left to languish for years to come.
Comments
You are using absurd references. The way you address killers complaining about non-exhaustion sprint burst and infinite loops makes it seem unjustified. I suppose permanently sabotaged hooks were okay with you too. Nothing wrong with killers only having the basement hooks to work with. You try to sound scientific, but it is just a facade to cover up your obvious survivor bias.
Bring back OLD trapper where he could trap 3 traps under the hook.
Bring back Old Nurse.
Bring back old Flick.
Bring back Old Legion with addons.
Bring back old facecamping.
Bring back old DS.
I don’t think it’s that deep.
They’re just polishing him, and making him less annoying to play against.
Which, in all fairness, is a good thing, because it’ll make the game more enjoyable.
I don’t think it’s fair to call it survivor biased, but more so, a middle ground.
You can’t really expect balance in a asymmetrical game, but you can expect nerfs and buffs.
lol Im talking human nature and so because I dont INSTANTLY side with killer im survivor biased.....
Thanks for proving my point.
lol....
'All we have is anecdotal'
Proceeds to explain that 'far more people' is statistically significant and claims my point as an outlier.
Here's a tid bit for you.
Over time the devs have consistently removed or nerfed the aspects that allow survivors to survive (vaults, pallets etc.), while buffing killers (bloodlust, more one-shot/instant find mechanics, end game hatch). Survivor mains did one of 2 things since release. Left the game or migrated to playing killer. The only survivor mains left are ‘new’ survivors who have no perspective or my favourite; killer mains that ‘play both sides equally’ -.-
If anything your 'far more people' is just an indication of bias, because survivor main have disengaged. Why stick around and comment when you just witness nerf after nerf.
I even have a list for you , that was put together BY A KILLER MAIN. Who didn't realise he was showing me all the survivor nerfs killer buffs. He's tried to highlight it as 'things that have helped survivor' but they've either been nerfed or removed.
1. Pallet Vacuum
2. Exhaustion recovering while running, meaning potentially 2 Sprint Bursts, 2 Balanced Landings, 2 Dead Hards, in one chase.
3. No Entity blocker, meaning infinites were truly infinite.
4. Instablinds
5. Instaheals
6. Self Care pre nerf
7. Many killers were in a worse spot, Hag, Trapper, Wraith, and especially Freddy, all of them being great examples before getting a few QoL changes.
8. Insane amounts of pallets on maps.
9. Old DS
10. Old Mettle of Man
11. Survivors prolonging the endgame for no reason before EGC.
12. Hatch standoffs
13. No Bloodlust. You could run a killer around the Shack for the whole game.
14. window vacuum,
15 insta gens(old old bnp),
16 half of the infinite windows (now half of buildings that had infinite windows have them closed/nerfed/50% to spawn or its ironworks of infinite)
17 Ballanced landing creating infinites
18 hook respawn
19 gens took less time
20 no exhaust (so you could run every speed perk)
I hate when my teammates Blendette their way through games, so I actually really like going against the Doctor. At the same time, they are some of the most tunnel-y killers in the game. Can't say I blame the majority of the people who play this game (survivors) for being annoyed by that. I had three games last night where I didn't even see a gen before the Doc made me scream and I was tunneled out of the game. A wonderful gaming experience, especially when it takes 10-20 minutes to get a game.
Do you think it's possible the devs will make him stronger and yet less annoying for survivors at the same time?
From the very first time I played this game, and went against Doc, I knew it wasn't fun and was super annoying.
He was imagined, planned, developed, tested and released over the course of many months. What horrifying chain of events happened at the studio to get through each phase of that process? Did you guys have to go spend a night in a mental institution, and somehow try to turn that experience, into a video game? I've been in a mental instituion and trust me, I'd rather be there, than face doc for the same amount of time.
They try to make the game fun for both sides.
Many people enjoy playing killer a lot. If you don't think playing killer is fun, then maybe you should try survivor instead.
@FearedbytheGods
I like how you make stuff up again, care to provide evidence about the survivor mains leaving the game? Doubt it will happen.
What I love about you following me around the forums is that I HAVE provide evidence, which you then promptly ignore, only to provide your 'because I say so', only for me to point out the holes in doing that.
Wash and repeat.
So where is the evidence concerning survivor mains leaving the game? Instead of talking how you provided it, i want to actually see it. Thanks.
You really think I follow you around? Such ego, no I just randomly see stuff that you post when looking through discussions and call you out for it. As usual you prefer to talk evidence you provided instead of actually providing it. So long.
Almost everything you wright are QoL that makes the game playable. Do you want to tell me you will play a game that you know you can't win no matter what you do?
Look we know that both sides have BS thing and those thing needs to be fixed but survivors have 2 weapons that can use to force devs to solve there problems faster DC and money.
Well this is the 3rd time round so.....
I posted it first time round and then you started it ALL OVER AGAIN second time round and I told you I wan't going to create the work for myself all over again so.
ditto
QoL.... that affects game outcomes so.... would be more accurate to call it game balance.
And I'm just going to have to assume you weren't there at release otherwise you'd know the reason for the trajectory.
Also d/c is going to get punished so i'm not sure how that helps survivors and why do survivors have more money? Or are you just stating that there's 4 survivors to every killer?
Oh yeah sure kiddo.
That is how a discussion works, well i have the evidence i really do, i will just not post it cause I post it elsewhere and will not tell you.
It is so good that people like you have no say in any meaningfull decisions which affect others. Imagine you backing up any claim, no i totally will not show the evidence, lul.
You make claims, back it up or live with the fact that people call you out for it.
Pot meet kettle.
@Endstille
Well, at least he's moved on from saying you get placed into a preferred queue by spending money on the game.
That was pure gold.
Pure Auric Cells
Whose moved on? We have some different ideas provided by someone who doesn't understand the game apparently.
Man you must miss the downvote from reddit. Echo rooms are easier to maintain there.
I'm not active on Reddit, but there used to be a downvote button here.
It served the opposite purpose - I'm not sure how you can say that a user's ability to show, both visually and globally, disagreement with a post regardless of its current popularity would promote an echo chamber ;3
Well in the context of your previous post, the back scratching I saw would have created the inevitable upvote/downvote dichotomy.
Or (going back to DBD reddit) a well informed post supporting survivors would get less upvotes than a rather generic 'salty survivor' post.
But if you're not so familiar with reddit, its a mute point.
Well, i have to say infinites needed to be fixed, so that was a very valid request. Sprint burst exhaustion is actually a good thing too.
But i see no reason for keys "to be fixed", expect maybe broken key. (i think it should open either the hatch that was closed by the killer, or a hatch that wasn´t closed by the killer yet. The aura reading on those things is a joke).
Looping, at least to me, is no different from camping. Both give the one that uses is an advantage, both are valid strategies, and both are boring as hell (i am talking about open loops, like around cars, where you cant even mindgame but have to run in circles unless you have a special killer).
I should mention that i actually play both sides, but while i am a red rank survivor, i struggle with a lot of killers (i play them all, depending on my mood, although i like hag best (and she ignores a lot of those problems, like looping)
Imagine a Dev defending this by comparing DBD balancing to the balancing of another game. However, said game is from a completely different genre, that is played completely differently and is notorious for its out-of-left-field balancing, obvious favourtism and random nerfs/buffs that literally no one asked for.
...
Oh.
Oh my.
Lmao.
Please stop, you are just as bad as the people screaming that BHVR only nerfs Killers and make LONG posts listing only Killer nerfs.
Stop. Survivors are not leaving the game, and playing survivor is still laughably easy and relaxed. There's a reason I basically only play Survivor.
And, anyway, to find a game on PS4 from my experience since September is about: <1min as Killer : >5mins as Survivor
Right, on ps4, I play on PC, so just relax a little.
Also do you know what subjective and anecdotal means. Because you just gave a whole load of it.
What is making Doc annoying? Fake pallets? Hallucinations? Screaming? This is what makes Doctor unique! If all killers would be the same, game would be boring (it already is very repeatable). No one plays Doc anyway. His power just helps him find survivors quickly and he still is M1 killer, which means you can still loop him as long as you can avoid fake pallets (which are not something guaranteed to appear in the game, they require add-on).
If devs are going to remove these things then they just destroyed the Doctor, just like they did with Freddy. Maybe he will be less annoying to play against and maybe even he will be better at killing, but it will be whole new killer. I don't want our current Doc to go away.
Usually if one side gets nerfed more than the other it means that the side that is getting constantly nerfed is overpowered.
It's not done out of spite or to appease a specific group and showing the sheer number of survivor nerfs really shows how broken survivors were.
Unless you genuinely think that these nerfs were undeserved.
I can definitely see it, it's much like the hindered status
i would give all that back for
1) OLD TRAPPER (trap under hooks x3)
2) OLD NURSE (OG 3 blink)
3) OLD LEGION
4) Hatch Stand off didnt apply for the doctor as he could shock then hit u before u could jump in, then if u were to jump in after he could grab u.
5) OLD UNHOOKING MECHANIC
6) OLD IRON GRASP
7) like 90% of the items u have listed dont apply to OG Nurse.
these are a just a few examples of killer Nerfs, and FYE OLD Iron Grasp and Agitation could get to the basement on 90%+ maps, i believe @ the time the only map it couldnt was The Thompson House if the basement was @ the shack and the survivor ran on the other side.
You could have said the same thing about the motivations behind the old Freddy rework, and he's one of the best killers in the game now. Doc is one of the least popular killers for both sides. He's annoying and weak. And I'd wager these are going to be massive buffs overall. As for Clown, yes he's weaker if we go by raw kill rate, but he can't literally take the game hostage, and Doc has been out longer.
Not that it was undeserved, but lets be clear here.
The devs unit of metric is 2 dead, 2 escape for survivors. The current kill rate for killers across the board is near 70%.
So when you see the current 'poor killer posts' like the OP, I'm really just asking people to make up their mind. Because its clear the OP doesn't understand this metric.
Based on your statement, if its 'deserved' then it means that people are happy with the killer nerf to bring them back in line with the devs vision. If people feel its 'undeserved' then you are literally looking back at the release of the game and things like infinites ( REAL infinites too, not the pseudo-infinites I see some trying to claim) and question those nerfs to survivor.
But really the OP is just after tribalistic talking points. Like minded people read the title, come to the thread and type 'I agree with you'.
Is there any real reason beyond personal preference for most of these points?
Also I get that it doesn't apply to nurse, because nurse has been broken since release and never should have been introduced to the game.
If devs metrics are really based on these stats, this explain why the game is in its current state. I think to myself that when they show these numbers, these are only to entertain the community, not for real balancing.
In the past it was demonstrated by some community members that even if survivors have by far the power role in this game, it's not that hard, even with the weakest killer with no addons or perks, to do 4k. This means that these stats are all screwed due to the current state of the game, which nullifies the validity of these statistics in terms of balance.
70% across the board? As in 70% average? I don't think that's right. Highest rate might be 70% but average is closer to 55% which does go closer to the devs 2 die and 2 escape.
But let's be honest that the likelier scenario in the game (and what I experience) is that either all survivors escape or nearly all of them die. I rarely see two survivors escape when there are still gens left to do. So I don't think you can ever get accurate statistics.
I do agree that OP may have misinterpreted the devs intention. Making it more fun for survivors probably isn't the primary goal rather a "we might as well do this while we are here" kinda goal.
I feel people in general (me included) are happier with the state of the game, I agree with some nerfs and disagree with others but the game has improved because of these changes. I don't think anyone can argue against that.
Right.
But it's a better attempt to try and understand things than the generic subjective anecdotal comments that half the forum engages in.
"Fun to play AGAINST not AS"
remember that's the moto.
If they spent all of their time responding to the hundreds of posts and messages they get daily, they wouldn't have any time left to actually work on the game.
You used more words then necessary so I didn't bother reading all of it.
They've been screwing over killers as hard as possible lately, the freddy rework was perfect and made everyone happy, then they decided to go full throttle in the opposite direction, it's baffling
You also abuse the
function.
Kill this thread already, it is obviously not a bias but in fact a buff. Let real topics show up.
Or I respond with the same anecdotal evidence you do, but you write a novel about it to try and "prove you're right".
I’m a doctor main and the few times I’ve played plague I’ve gotten more disconnects than with doc. She’s the most annoying LOL
How is this a buff to the doc ?
the Nurse was never broken, only that survivors didnt want to vs her because they had to think outside of the box other then infinite - pallet - pallet - window infinite and so on.
when someone says "and never should have been introduced to the game." you know theyre a survivor main that hates anything killers get.
its like survivor perks get buffed while killer perks get nerfed over and over and over.
What nerfed oni and freddy? You cant be talking about bt and the flick...
If you ever played doc, you would know that grab was removed long ago. As usual, the most loud are the ones that don't even play the character.
Removing Treatment Mode means Doc doesn't have to move 110% to use Shock Therapy and can more quickly attack someone after stopping them from vaulting or dropping a pallet with a shock.
With the range, shock have you have to be close in order to use it that's mean in the 2 sec you have you can hit them. Only if you use the best addons for range and try to shock them from as far you can and only then you could hit them after a shock. This seen to me as nerf because you gain nothing but you lose your track ability.