The reason for the Doctor rework shows a strong pro-survivor bias

From this well made summary of the recent dev stream.

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/114042/i-watched-the-dev-stream-so-you-dont-have-to-again/p1

"They decided to update Doctor next because he’s the most annoying killer to play against."

He was not changed because he was weak and people struggled to play as him. No. He was changed because survivors found him "annoying" in the incredibly rare instance a killer decided they wanted to suffer playing as him. Probably why we have had so many Legion changes recently, to make them less "annoying" for survivors to go against. Meanwhile very weak killers like the Clown are not "annoying" will likely be left to languish for years to come.

Tagged: DevTrusted

Comments

  • @KingOfGhost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/968184#Comment_968184

    With the range, shock have you have to be close in order to use it that's mean in the 2 sec you have you can hit them. Only if you use the best addons for range and try to shock them from as far you can and only then you could hit them after a shock. This seen to me as nerf because you gain nothing but you lose your track ability.

    Shock Therapy is also getting a slight range buff as well. So you are both moving faster when lining up the shot and have a bit of extra range when firing.

    Also, what you are saying makes no sense. Why would you want to shock them from as far away as possible if you only have two seconds to M1 them before they can vault/drop a pallet again?

  • @TAG said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/968255#Comment_968255

    Shock Therapy is also getting a slight range buff as well. So you are both moving faster when lining up the shot and have a bit of extra range when firing.

    Also, what you are saying makes no sense. Why would you want to shock them from as far away as possible if you only have two seconds to M1 them before they can vault/drop a pallet again?

    We know that the base shock will get a small rang buff and we know that the range addons will get a nerf so this will keep it the same.

    I never say you want to shock them from as far away as possible i say you cloud not hit them and change mode when you shock them from as far away as possible.

  • He can be annoying on lower ranks and definitely for begginers, but he is below average after. I thought they are reworking him to make a buff so more killers play on him?

  • @Larisa said:

    He can be annoying on lower ranks and definitely for begginers, but he is below average after. I thought they are reworking him to make a buff so more killers play on him?

    But how what new he will get that make killer say yes i want play him in the rank i am right now ?

  • I honestly want to believe that the devs are reworking doctor for the better, I really do. But judging from how killers have been treated in the past (and even recently with Oni and Freddy), I'm expecting nerfs and/or anything that'll make him less viable. Don't get me wrong, the devs have been stepping in the right direction with buffing killers, but they're starting to show signs of going backwards with the nerfs to Oni's mobility and Freddy's add-ons. Oni is literally an M1 killer, that's all he is, there was literally nothing about him that needed to be nerfed. Freddy's forever build was completely counterable. People could wake up, they could even use perks like Botany Knowledge, We'll Make It, Prove Thyself, Leader, and use items (toolboxes and add-ons). But no, most survivors are too scared to let go of their precious meta builds and instead cry for 'balance'. "Gen speeds were too slow, it was unfun/boring". Was it boring? At times yes, especially when your teammates couldn't even last 10 seconds in a chase and Freddy completely destroyed gen progress. But guess what? It wasn't impossible to get all gens done. I escaped multiple times against forever Freddy, by looping him for ages so my team could get gens done and waking up and using speedy perks. Despite the plethora of strategies to counter forever Freddy, the devs just decided "yeah we'll nerf this build even though it's 100% counterable". This just goes to show that the devs don't want the killer to be in control. Gens get done too quickly and killer has no fun? Screw the killer, leave gen speed alone. Gens get done too slow? Better see what's 'wrong' with what the killer is doing to slow gens down. Sorry for the mini-rant, but I'm just using history to predict what will happen to doctor. I'm guessing they'll limit the use of his power, maybe even give him a juicy nerf to his base speed, anything that'll make it easier for survivors to survive against him. All of this is coming from a survivor main, who just can't stand the injustice killers face: pointless nerfs to the few advantages killers have over survivors, advantages that can be countered by perks and play style.

  • @KingOfGhost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/968327#Comment_968327

    But how what new he will get that make killer say yes i want play him in the rank i am right now ?

    They already made a cool skin with slippers so I dunno

  • @RobMeister88 said:

    I honestly want to believe that the devs are reworking doctor for the better, I really do. But judging from how killers have been treated in the past (and even recently with Oni and Freddy), I'm expecting nerfs and/or anything that'll make him less viable. Don't get me wrong, the devs have been stepping in the right direction with buffing killers, but they're starting to show signs of going backwards with the nerfs to Oni's mobility and Freddy's add-ons. Oni is literally an M1 killer, that's all he is, there was literally nothing about him that needed to be nerfed. Freddy's forever build was completely counterable. People could wake up, they could even use perks like Botany Knowledge, We'll Make It, Prove Thyself, Leader, and use items (toolboxes and add-ons). But no, most survivors are too scared to let go of their precious meta builds and instead cry for 'balance'. "Gen speeds were too slow, it was unfun/boring". Was it boring? At times yes, especially when your teammates couldn't even last 10 seconds in a chase and Freddy completely destroyed gen progress. But guess what? It wasn't impossible to get all gens done. I escaped multiple times against forever Freddy, by looping him for ages so my team could get gens done and waking up and using speedy perks. Despite the plethora of strategies to counter forever Freddy, the devs just decided "yeah we'll nerf this build even though it's 100% counterable". This just goes to show that the devs don't want the killer to be in control. Gens get done too quickly and killer has no fun? Screw the killer, leave gen speed alone. Gens get done too slow? Better see what's 'wrong' with what the killer is doing to slow gens down. Sorry for the mini-rant, but I'm just using history to predict what will happen to doctor. I'm guessing they'll limit the use of his power, maybe even give him a juicy nerf to his base speed, anything that'll make it easier for survivors to survive against him. All of this is coming from a survivor main, who just can't stand the injustice killers face: pointless nerfs to the few advantages killers have over survivors, advantages that can be countered by perks and play style.

    Freddy got the biggest buff and smallest nerf.

    Jeez, did you READ the patch notes? He only got small add-on nerfs.

  • @thenegativone said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/950602#Comment_950602

    What nerfed oni and freddy? You cant be talking about bt and the flick...

    Freddy got several addon nerfs and yes I do mean the flick as it was compensating for issues in his kit that are now very obvious and frankly horrible

  • @RobMeister88 said:

    I honestly want to believe that the devs are reworking doctor for the better, I really do. But judging from how killers have been treated in the past (and even recently with Oni and Freddy), I'm expecting nerfs and/or anything that'll make him less viable. Don't get me wrong, the devs have been stepping in the right direction with buffing killers, but they're starting to show signs of going backwards with the nerfs to Oni's mobility and Freddy's add-ons. Oni is literally an M1 killer, that's all he is, there was literally nothing about him that needed to be nerfed. Freddy's forever build was completely counterable. People could wake up, they could even use perks like Botany Knowledge, We'll Make It, Prove Thyself, Leader, and use items (toolboxes and add-ons). But no, most survivors are too scared to let go of their precious meta builds and instead cry for 'balance'. "Gen speeds were too slow, it was unfun/boring". Was it boring? At times yes, especially when your teammates couldn't even last 10 seconds in a chase and Freddy completely destroyed gen progress. But guess what? It wasn't impossible to get all gens done. I escaped multiple times against forever Freddy, by looping him for ages so my team could get gens done and waking up and using speedy perks. Despite the plethora of strategies to counter forever Freddy, the devs just decided "yeah we'll nerf this build even though it's 100% counterable". This just goes to show that the devs don't want the killer to be in control. Gens get done too quickly and killer has no fun? Screw the killer, leave gen speed alone. Gens get done too slow? Better see what's 'wrong' with what the killer is doing to slow gens down. Sorry for the mini-rant, but I'm just using history to predict what will happen to doctor. I'm guessing they'll limit the use of his power, maybe even give him a juicy nerf to his base speed, anything that'll make it easier for survivors to survive against him. All of this is coming from a survivor main, who just can't stand the injustice killers face: pointless nerfs to the few advantages killers have over survivors, advantages that can be countered by perks and play style.

    154 votes and 204 comments so far on Reddit

    Here you are doc main try not to break your screen

  • @Almo said:

    But in doing the update, we focused on making him more fun to play as well as against.

    LoL is littered with changes they made due to characters being annoying to play against. Most notably Darius, who had a 60% ban rate, but a 48% win rate.

    Don't give riot ideas,I like Darius :d

  • What gets me is how inconsistent the devs are when they communicate their reasoning for changes. Okay, Doctor and Legion are annoying to survivors, but Hillbilly with his spammable one hit down traversal power isn't?

    They give Spirit a vault animation because the devs say they dont want the survivors feeling they have to make a blind gamble when trying to loop her at the killer shack, but say nothing of the blind gamble at regular loops?

    The latest patch notes are hilarious, they have been written from the perspective of survivors having fun and say nothing for the killer, as if the killers job isn't supposed to be fun.

  • @Resurrect said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/952279#Comment_952279

    I wasn't going too . . .

    Though I couldn't help pointing out the lack of response to your post.

    • No disrespect to the developers 'Almo'
    • No disrespect to the trustees 'Fibijean'
    I had too . . .

    Point out how the 'powers that be' always respond to the safe posts.

    Such as those which are

    • Half-baked . . poorly written
      • Easy to dissect and detract from the argument being made

    While I can appreciate developer and trusted members taking time to respond, if they only respond to posts that can't hold a candle to the structured and well thought out posts of others then whats the point?

    We want . . .

    Meaningful dialog with developers and the like with those who have the knowledge and forethought to have a noteworthy conversation.

    We don't want . . .

    Developer responses to posts that are

    • Poorly written
    • Half-baked

    When it's hard to articulate what one writes in a post, even if we get the gist of what they are trying to say and you chose that post to respond too . . it's a bit of a slap in the face.

    Many forum goers respect developer and trusted member responses. You can't and shouldn't respond to everyone, but at least respond to those that have some substance.

    No disrespect to anyone ! ! !

    Everyone has a right to post their feelings and thoughts, but the cherry picked responses are truly aggravating.

    • Bonus - even when Peanits posts. Don't bother responding because 9/10 times you won't get one back.

    Point being when a developer decides to respond you can't miss it. Within should be an eye opening "Aha" moment to gain some sort of insight of where the developer is coming from.

    Usually, it's a post structured in a safe way to prevent any kind of backlash, which usually means a mundane response, but even when clever members poke holes in what a developer says you next to NEVER get a response.

    TL;DR

    Developers please

    • Stop cherry picking and only responding to trivial posts

    Not saying Cymers post is the best example, but it was structured with well thought out points and I couldn't wait to see the developers/trustees response since multiple posts within this thread were addressed a few times . . . Not surprised this one was 'overlooked' /s

    Thank you for your kind words, but this behavior from BHVR is almost normal now, sadly.

    I also asked in the past, if we could get insight into the vision of the devs, regarding the Legion. What they want to achieve with him, what is the development process, what are the boundaries they have to work within, so we as a community not only could understand their decision making but actively and constructively help them with amazing, realistic ideas and solutions. But I never got an answer.

    To be honest, I miss the old days, where BHVR used to have the devs streams regularly with Queeny and Cote and you could directly ask them questions via chat.

    Nowadays everything gets filtered and selected by the mods and a paraphrased version presented to the devs.

    Almo even admitted, that topics with the biggest, loudest and most outcry have the best chances to get heard.

    Single well written and structured post on the other hand, probably get overlooked or disappear in the depth of the forum.

    The only time a post of mine really got heard and reacted to, was the red flash pallet stun, that caused nausea to a lot of players. But that's only because of our angels Patricia.

    I am not sure why this is happening, are they just going more corporate and cannot or are not able to care as much like before? Or are the burned out?

    For a long time now, we are asking for more communication and transparency, because we love the game and want to help and understand.

    But the recent year I have more and more lost my passion for the game, because the biggest outcry tend to win and the horror of the game gets thrown under the bus.

    So far

    Cymer

  • @ProfessorDunwich said:

    From this well made summary of the recent dev stream.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/114042/i-watched-the-dev-stream-so-you-dont-have-to-again/p1

    "They decided to update Doctor next because he’s the most annoying killer to play against."

    He was not changed because he was weak and people struggled to play as him. No. He was changed because survivors found him "annoying" in the incredibly rare instance a killer decided they wanted to suffer playing as him. Probably why we have had so many Legion changes recently, to make them less "annoying" for survivors to go against. Meanwhile very weak killers like the Clown are not "annoying" will likely be left to languish for years to come.

    But you just made Doctor weaker. The only reason Doctor is not Clown yet is because of the stun while screaming. True, your update made it easier to use stun in chases, but now its useless because stun lasts 2.5 seconds while Doctors recovery lasts 3 seconds.

    So basically now we cant use Doctors only strong point.

  • snapping out of it way too easy, no grabs now in treatment, you have lag after shock which negates the buff he even had. Madness 2 was nerfed is no permanent anymore. passive madness gone in favore of 1 minute cooldown shock


    Doctor got huge nerf.

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