ermsy
ermsy
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3046408#Comment_3046408
If the survivors who run DS had a tell they have the perk, that means any survivor without the tell could easily be tunneled out of the game. Currently DS does a band aid job of being the only anti-tunnel measure in the game. Maybe in the future if devs add something useful as basekit to prevent tunneling (no, 5 seconds of BT is not an anti-tunnel measure) you could consider adding a warning for DS, but right now it should stay as it is.
On the case of other perks, you can see how adding a warning for every perk would be bad by looking at Dissolution. It adds a visual warning for when it's active so the survivor can just not vault a pallet, so you might never see the perk do what it is supposed to do.
You do bring up a very good point, the biggest downside to this suggestion is that players will feel like they have to run ds, I'd argue making Ds basekit would solve that issue.
Your reasoning is probably the reason that it's never been explored
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@[Deleted User] said:
If you knew a survivor had unbreakable you never leave them slugged. What would be the point of the perk?
It would solve slugging lol
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@[Deleted User] said:
There's a lot of perks like that. You can't possibly know if a killer has Devour Hope until he gains 3 stacks, is Devour Hope unhealthy?
Learning what build is your opponent running is part of the gameplay as well. If I see a killer that I know for sure has, for example, Tinkerer + Pop + Corrupt + Bambozlee, I know I don't need to be wortied about NOED at the end.
Also nothing in this game should be risk free. If DS and UB had tells for when a survivor has them, tunneling and slugging would be easier than what they already are.
wouldn't ds having a tell discourage tunnelling, if I knew for sure x survivor has ds, I'd avoid chasing them for the next minute.
you are right about other perks that are similar but they would need to be looked at case by case basis and their power levels. devour hope isn't a great example as the tell is the speed boost as well as a glowing totem.
I understand the intrigue of not knowing the opponents perks, but I think there is a difference between not knowing their perks and feeling like you have to play around perks that doesn't exist.
@KateDunson said:
What you are suggesting will just make the perks useless
or non-existent
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doesn't legion have a reputation for getting survivors to d/c?
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@Doziano said:
The title kinda says it all lol. But my reasoning is that every time I play Twins I can see why Twins players tend to slug so much. Not only is it effective, but also walking back to the survivor with Charlotte after getting a down actually wastes a lot of time, making it better to just use Victor to pressure at least one more player with an injury or a down to compensate for the fact that I still need to walk to the slugged survivor. That made me think that if I could just summon Charlotte to Victor after downing someone I could just hook the survivor right away instead of slugging for extra pressure. I can also think about how this mechanic could make it less appealing to use the Twins for camping, because now you can scout with Victor and, once you find someone, you can summon Charlotte to shut down a loop. Camping with one of your bodies would still be very effective, but at least you would have a bigger incentive to use the two bodies as a chase team tag instead of remote camping. Do you think that this mechanic could add a good QoL change when playing as and against the Twins?
gameplay wise I think it would be quite cool and add some interesting situations into the game but wouldn't fit lore wise.
@anarchy753 said:
I think while controlling Victor, Charlotte should walk at 50% movement speed in his direction until 10m away from him. That way she'd stay far enough to not bodyblock loops for him or the survivor, but also not be miles away when you jump back to her.
It would also make it harder for Twins players to camp as the body would move away from the hook naturally.
not a fan of this, you'd get disoriented a lot with charlottes location constantly changing, would make it harder to plan ahead for example herding a survivor into charlotte or victor then switching would be more difficult. you couldn't hide charlotte in areas around gens to surprise survivors.
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Would be nice if they brought old Freddy back as an add-on.
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@Advorsus said:
It would probably stay on the survivor. Not really that useful though because Victor doesn't have a terror radius, and dark devotion is really best used to drop chase with the obsession and sneak up on other survivors.
There's almost no real value of using it on twins lol
You can get a lot done in 30 seconds, hit survivor, chase and down with Victor, still gives you another 15 seconds with Charlotte, can be used as a mini silencing cloth add-on
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Are basement trappers common enough to warrant complaining about?
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024915#Comment_3024915
Patch 2.6.0 was released 19.03.19 and Patch 2.6.3 was released 02.04.19, so there was only a two week time period in which the ds stun was 3s and it was affected by Enduring at that time, so it's not surprising that the complaints at that time focused on that, so I would say that a 3s ds stun wasn't really tested (when Enduring affected the stun time, a surv had about 2.28s to run, which is still more than the 1.7s that a surv supposedly can use when the ds stun is 3s long.)
Before 2.6.0 the stun was 4s in description and 4.5s in reality if you believe the wiki.
And btw, head on can be used multiple times in match so I don't think that ist is fair to compare it to ds.
That's a fair assessment of the history of the perk, it will be interesting to see if it's an issue on the ptb. I would argue that the fact that killers specifically used enduring to counter Ds says something.
And when it comes to head on I'm not comparing the usage, purpose or strength of the perk. I'm purely comparing the 3 second stun, if you can get away after using head on then surely that would apply to ds no?
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its difficult to judge new dh until we see it in action. if you can proc dh and jump through a window or pallet, it could be a problem but thats just speculation at this point.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024874#Comment_3024874
If you cherry pick 80%, of course, and which is already much weaker.
And it only gets weaker and weaker the less it has.
yes but the the less the gen has, the less you'll need it in the first place.
and it combos well with mercilless storm or tinkerer so you may be more likely to pop gens at high percentage.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024865#Comment_3024865
Yes. Which means that the 3 second-Stun existed while the Unhook-Requirement was already added. And it was too less.
You just cannot compare old DS which did not have any requirements with DS which requires to be unhooked to justify 3 seconds of Stun.
i get that, what Im saying is that in that time period, you won't find anyone that complained about the stun duration.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024831#Comment_3024831
if it's 50% it will be 12.5% kick, which is only half of original and even much less in actual seconds.
I won't consider 25% or 50% progression "barely"
if we say for example a gen is 80% done and you kick it with pop.
right now it will take off 20s
new patch it will take off 16.65s
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024826#Comment_3024826
This is incorrect. The 3 second stun also existed after the Unhook-Requirement was added. Which got buffed to 5 seconds.
the unhook-requirement was added in march 2019 2.6 then the 5 second stun was added in april 2019 2.63
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024815#Comment_3024815
You can make it 15% or less but somehow they made it to regress 20% of CURRENT charge, which is extreme nerf.
is it though? if a gen has barely no progression then its not worth kicking anyway, if its 80% or more done then you get 20% of that plus the extra 2.5% which is probably just barely less than its original 25%
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024788#Comment_3024788
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024789#Comment_3024789
If you are talking about the stun before the Unhook-Requirement, this is not really worth a discussion and a poor argument. Back then DS was far stronger, because it can be activated on any Down. So Killers either slugged the Obsession or dribbled them to a nearby Hook.
Comparing the 3 second DS-Stun when it was at its strongest with 3 second DS-Stun when it is suppose to be an "Anti-Tunnel Perk" is really wrong.
the 5 second stun came after the unhook requirement.
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don't see how pop is unnecessary, gens are being increased to 90 seconds as well as losing 2.5% on the gen per kick.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024752#Comment_3024752
Head On: Because people who run Head On know it is a bad Perk and just for the Memes. DS on the other hand is supposed to be an Anti-Tunnel Perk and you can expect that this Perk does something against tunneling.
And back then there were complaints about the Stun Time, however, DS was also not really used that much. One reason is because it was a recent Nerf (Nerfs tend to cause a drop in usage) but also because it was just not worth picking up with 3 seconds.
I mean, even 5 second-DS is not good at countering tunneling. The stronger Killers just ignore it, a Nurse or Blight will just laugh about it. But with 3 seconds, basically every Killer will laugh about DS and just tunnel through it. And while DS gets neutered for the sake of changing the Meta, you will still face Nurses and Blights on a regular basis (but due to other changes now with even less distance gained when they hit you - yay!).
the perk would still do something, like I said there were no issues when it was a 3 second stun back in 2019 and I can't find any posts of people complaining about the stun duration back then (you're welcome to take a look and post me a link). and because it was already that duration we don't even have to speculate how it would go as it was already a thing and it was fine back than.
I do agree that nurse and Blight is a problem but that isn't a ds problem, that's a nurse/blight problem and they should be nerfed accordingly along with these changes, (losing charges seems like a good one).
Just to reiterate the 3 second stun was fine historically which they changed due to enduring. so if it was good when enduring wasn't a factor back then than it shouldn't be a problem now since enduring still can't affect it.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024752#Comment_3024752
But... That's the thing, people did complain?
find me a post of people complaining, I can't find any.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024693#Comment_3024693
It wasnt enough. From 3 seconds you will use 1,3 seconds for the animation, so the actual distance gained is 7 meters (1,7 seconds, should be around 7m with 4m/s Movement Speed). So unless you are very, very close to a Pallet or Window, you will not make it.
And well, Head On is bad. It is one of the worst Exhaustion-Perks and people just take it for the lols. So what is your point in bringing Head On into this discussion?
i brought head on into the discussion because nobody has complained about the stun duration of that perk.
and why did no one complain about the stun duration of ds pre-buff if it was such a problem back than?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024639#Comment_3024639
DS being changed to 3 seconds makes the Perk useless. You cannot get any real distance. If anything, the Stun Time should have increased or other measures should have been taken.
We are talking about a Perk which SHOULD be an Anti-Tunnel Perk. Even if it clearly is not an Anti-Tunnel Perk (its Anti-Tunnel is too bad), they changed it to something which made tunneling more rewarding in an Update, which should introduce basegame changes to stuff like tunneling and camping.
When someone has played back then when DS was 3 seconds (AND countered by Enduring), they should know that even without Enduring the stun was too short.
DS will probably still be used. But Perks like Ruin or Self Care will also still be used. Does not mean that they are any good now.
people ran enduring back then specifically for ds because taking the stun was not worth taking. and I doubt you could find any posts from back then complaining about the stun duration pre-buff. also the 3 second stun is enough for head on so logically it should be enough ds. even after the buff to 5 seconds, enduring would bring it below 3 seconds and it was still enough back then.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019460#Comment_3019460
Back then it was meant to be a 3 second stun but they had almost 4 years to revert it but didn’t choose to. The 5 seconds was a fine number and should stay
The 3 second stun 4 years ago was also fine if it wasn't for enduring.
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Ds stun was originally 3 seconds but it got buffed because of enduring. When enduring got nerfed/changed Ds never got the stun duration reverted.
Basically it was always meant to be 3 second stun, it was an oversight to not change it back for so long.
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@Jay_K said:
I don't see how Solo queue has been overly screwed. The basekit BT is a huge buff to solo que survivors as not only are you getting endurance but speed boost aswell. Don't forget that speed boosts tend to stack so if u do get hit off the hook you get the speed boost from being hit + 7% for 5 seconds.
Let's face it 9 times out of 10 BT is used not as an anti tunnel perk but instead as a perk that allows you a free health state to bully the killer with.
The DS nerf was a long time coming regarding it being deactivated after last gen and although the stun being reduced from 5 to 3 sucks this brings it in line with other stuns. Pallet stuns are 2 seconds and Head on stuns are 3 seconds so don't see this being a major issue with DS being brought to 3 seconds. If a killer wants you dead by tunneling there isnt anything you can do about it anyway and those extra 2 seconds arn't going to do much.
Ive seen a lot of people say how none of this helps against face camping bubba and that some killer buffs are helping bubba. Thats fair to say but if you get a game against a face camping bubba just get out of the match and start another game. Queue times (at least for me) arn't overly bad right now so its not much waiting to move to a new game.
DS was originally a 3 second stun but they increased it to 5 seconds due to enduring but when they changed enduring they never corrected ds back to 3 seconds. it was a long time coming tbh.
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I think the changes seem good and you lot are overreacting. the 5 second endurance and haste is far better then what we previously had which was nothing.
I don't think the nerfs to meta perks on either killer or survivor are unreasonable.
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@ShinobuSK said:
They make it reveal Devour with special attacks too...probably was a wee bit overpowered
Does that mean tier 1 devour is stronger than tier 3?
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I've had games where the first gen gets done within 10 seconds, figured it was a loading in issue.
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Just playing devil's advocate, if you can run the killer round 5 gens then you'll probably end up surviving more games than dying. It's not like your scenario is going to play out every game.
The opposite is probably true for those that can only hold M1 on gens, they get chased by a higher MMR killer and die more often.
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You're probably right that the Devs probably won't do something like that although aren't they doing something similar to encourage ppl to pick killer/survivor?. But saying swf is fine is weird because it's irrelevant...even if this change happened swf would still be fine...it would barely affect it. Just some bonus BP for everyone really.
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@R1ch4rd_N1x0n said:
SWF is fine.
I feel like you read the title and nothing else.
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Nevermind, you don't understand my question and I'm not gonna keep explaining myself.
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@jeremycarinio said:
the downside of the perk is its ONE TIME use. thats the condition. its a 2 slots useless once its both used. when we could have GEN PRESSURE PERKS(prve thyself, resiilienece, exhaustion perks), these perks are POWERFUL once used PROPERLY. if not, its useless
Once again for the third time why does deliverance have all these extra conditions but unbreakable does not?
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@jeremycarinio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2063060#Comment_2063060
the downsize of unbreakable is 1 time use only, just like deliverance.
what you did is your slugging tactic, when you should be gen pressuring. when you down a survivor, hook him as soon as possible.
You completely ignored my point. Unbreakable is a powerful perk just like deliverance and they are very similar. Both have a one time use and both have the potential to change the game drastically.
Why does one have multiple downsides and conditions and the other does not?
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For twins It's hard to aim the little guy with the controller plus the twins are generally bad across the board. For the trickster it's near impossible to get consistent hits with that recoil with a controller.
All in all just terrible experience with these killers on console.
Blight has one saving grace and it's that add-on that locks on to survivors which is unfortunately mandatory on console imo.
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For Console the last 3 killers have been terrible. But they have all at least 1 good perk.
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If unbreakable is balanced then why does it not have a downside when deliverance does?
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@VolcanoMom53 said:
This is a pretty funny post, it almost feels like a troll attempt.
I mean, the video you show to make us empathize with you contains footage of successful counterplay done well. Not PH's fault you can't dodge his attack afterwards.
Every killer has a right to camp if they want to, especially when the entire rest of the team is right in front of him. What is he supposed to do? Walk away and give you a free escape?
You are the entitled survivor straw-man.
I agree with this, the swf successfully baited the pH when going for the unhook and even managed to body block him so the killer can only aim from a distance.
Ph's attack can be reacted to especially from that distance. So that survivor should be more annoyed at themselves for not reacting and dodging the attack.
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Not sure if it's relevant or been said already but you get really nice fps when you play on the tutorial.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563881#Comment_1563881
Because its easier to make them useless than to rework them alltogether, this way they get rid of something they dont want with minimal effort.
That's simply your interpretation. They didn't do anything to actively make bloodwarden or wakeup weaker then their original design. And like you said remember me still makes it very difficult to open gates for the sole survivor so it's still far from useless.
In fact you can still do some dirty builds with it.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563866#Comment_1563866
It proves they WANTED pressure on the doors but they dont want it anymore.
Remember me got nerfed because how interacted with the new Hatch closing mechanic not with the 5gen Exit Gate opening. With new version its very hard to open the doors once the hatch closed, with the older version it would be impossible.
But those perks still exist and still do what they originally sought out to do even if it isn't as effective.
Remember me still delays the gates opening, bloodwarden still blocks the exit, wake up still increases the speed of opening exit gates.
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@VicThor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563829#Comment_1563829
I absolutely agree with you. Maybe the regression could be disabled when only one survivor left.
If it was up to me regression wouldn't go past 75% so at most 5 additional seconds to open gates. More if killer has remember me.
No regression for sole survivor.
Move exit gates to opposite sides of map...at the very least the killer shouldn't be able to see both exits from one location.
Maybe add a second switch on either side so trapper can't leave the survivor with a no win situation as easily.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563785#Comment_1563785
Because they were created for old Freddy, a Killer who was inmensely strong once the 5 gens were done since you opened doors 50% slower while asleep and once all 4 Survivors were sleep and gens done there was no way to wake up, only while selfhealing or healing others. A build with Remember Me, Fire Up, NOED and Blood Warden with 4 people slept was super strong if you managed to pull it as people had more trouble opening the door than finishing the gens.
Freddy got changed so that build and perks lost a lot of appeal and potential.
It still proves my point, regardless of how strong they were on Freddy or how weak they are now. They still exist and that there was an attempt to use the gates as a form of pressure.
They even nerfed remember me instead of reworking it so they still want gate pressure in the game even if it is quite weak.
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@VicThor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563620#Comment_1563620
The issue is that the killer has to camp the last hook. I cannot go and open the exit gate and also be at the hook. Many many survivors get cocky at the end, cause they know you can’t do anything since they will bodyblock and it’s kinda free escape. Of course if NOED comes into the picture then they complain. But regressing exit gates would solve this issue in my opinion.
I also think that regressing the exits gates will also enrich the survivor experience as well. Right now end game plays out the same way, killer has no choice but to down and camp the unlucky survivor.
Remaining survivors 99 the gates and go on a rescue mission. If successful they body block the killer until they get to the exit, one tap and they are free. If not successful then that survivor is getting facecamped till death which probably doesn't feel too good either.
With regression there is a risk/reward factor for survivors and the choice to 99 a gate could backfire which creates tense gameplay. Also the killer will have more of a choice to chase another survivor and not be forced to camp since that survivor can't run to the exit and insta open the gates.
I think all around it will be a more positive experience for both sides.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563693#Comment_1563693
Because they're at completely different points in the game, you think gates are redundant yet you want to be able to pressure them by not even being at them, you want free pressure because you were unable to kill survivors during the match.
During the game, pressuring the survivors is pressuring gens because a survivors being chased is a gen not being worked on by that survivors, the doors, which take mere seconds to complete, and are the final barrier to survivors escaping and you getting 0 kills should be the last thing on your mind, you should be getting a survivor on a hook and not worrying about the gate.
If I shouldn't be worried about the gates then why are there perks that directly affect the gates? I think gates are redundant in their current state which is why I'd want the change so that they can be pressured.
I love how you assume why I want pressure. Pressuring one survivor is pressuring that one survivor, it doesn't stop the other gens from being done. You need to actively switch targets by defending gens but this is not the point of this discussion.
You are right, exit gates take mere seconds to open and the survivors final barrier to survive now takes a millisecond to overcome and yes my only option is to try to get the survivor on hook and keep them there as going to the gate is not a viable option.
My question to you is why is it such a big deal to you? If a gate takes 4 seconds to open after regression instead of a millisecond, would that break the game?
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563671#Comment_1563671
I don't understand this point at all, surely you'd down someone and hook them at end game, right? So you're not going to be camping doors anyway, your pressure should be on whoever you're hooking or trying to hook, not the doors.
This is simply killer entitlement, if you can't get enough kills in the time it takes them to do 5 gens and 99 doors you're probably not playing very well anyway.
I'm not talking about specific scenarios, if me wanting the exit gates to regress is killer entitlement then you wanting the opposite is surely survivor entitlement.
How bout instead of just disregarding my point, you actually make a counter point.
Your point of "pressure the survivor, don't bother pressuring the doors" is equivalent to "pressure the survivor, don't bother pressuring the gens". Why does one sound ridiculous to you but the other doesn't?
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563645#Comment_1563645
Yes, doors are totally redundant because nobody has ever died between the gens being done and the doors being opened, and sure, I'd love for them to open the doors when the gens are done, because you know what'll happen? Killers will complain en masse about this huge buff to survivors because the doors AREN'T redundant.
Most survivors usually die at that point due to their own hubris, not because the killer pressured the 99ed door. It still doesn't change the fact that the killer has no way of pressuring a door that has been 99ed which is still an objective in the game, a final roadblock a survivor needs to overcome to survive.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563632#Comment_1563632
Well that's the issue isn't it "I couldn't kill these survivors, so I think I should have more things to help me". I don't like that way of thinking, honestly, as if the game isn't easy enough for both sides right now.
You just ignored my points, the survivors objective is to escape which includes opening the exit gate, not just completing the gens. Being unable to pressure the exit gate makes them redundant, they might as well open automatically when the last gen gets done.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563620#Comment_1563620
Maps are becoming smaller, gates are spawning on the same wall, killers are pretty fast, it would become impossible for survivors (who have finished their objective btw) to escape if doors were regressing, especially against nurse/billy/spirit/the blight etc etc.
Sure but if the gates were designed to always spawn on opposite sides like the indoor maps it wouldn't be an issue.
The survivors primary objective is to survive and escape, this includes doing gens, opening the exit gates and leaving.
You are also assuming it's the one survivor left in which case yeah regression might be unfair but it would be easy to restrict or disable regression in this case.
I'm mostly concerned when there are multiple survivors left.
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@Seanzu said:
EGC was never meant to pressure survivors in a way that effects their choices, it was only added as a means to make sure the game came to a definitive end and prevents survivors from sneaking around the map once all is said and done, there is nothing wrong with 99ing gates, if you don't like 99d gates you should open one yourself.
I think op has the right idea but conveyed it wrong. Sure the egc isn't used for pressure but the killer should be able to pressure doors...which they currently can not.
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The egc is designed to simply end the game but the exit gates are still an objective before the egc starts.
The game isn't over yet but making the exit gates open via a one tap makes them pointless. A slow regression would make sense and actually allow the killer to have some pressure towards the gates.