The reason for the Doctor rework shows a strong pro-survivor bias
From this well made summary of the recent dev stream.
"They decided to update Doctor next because he’s the most annoying killer to play against."
He was not changed because he was weak and people struggled to play as him. No. He was changed because survivors found him "annoying" in the incredibly rare instance a killer decided they wanted to suffer playing as him. Probably why we have had so many Legion changes recently, to make them less "annoying" for survivors to go against. Meanwhile very weak killers like the Clown are not "annoying" will likely be left to languish for years to come.
Comments
Well... But where will this end?
As said before... There will always be a "most annoying to play against".
After they are done with the Doctor, who is next and then and then... and then?
If you really go straight down this line, you will never reach the end.
Also dc'ers need to be banned. That is the only matter for what dc'ers are good for.
BHVR: Makes a change that makes both sides happy and buffs a very weak killer
Gets accused of survivor bias. These forums are a joke sometimes.
I believe they said next is Leatherface and Hillbilly, and Pig is somewhere in line too. It isn't based solely off "annoying," Leatherface is downright weaker than other killers and his add ons don't make sense for his own power. Hillbilly need his add ons sorted to be more in line with the standard rarities.
And yes, it shouldn't "end," continuing to keep content relevant with the current state of the game is a good thing.
Well, I have not talk about balance. Balance is always a good thing, but to make a patch just because some people might feel annoyed by... whatever...
That is just a outlandish reason for me.
For real, the treatment grabis the only reason why I ever play him, it's amazing I'm going to miss it terribly.
Im just dissapointed the rumers are that "treatment mode" is going away.... I mean that is just like the Freddy rework, remove that which gave them a right to exist, remove that which made them special, remove that which made them stand out.
Highly disappointed in this route of just making killers more and more the same :(
This is a call from reality, killer lobbies are instant right now. DC were not only about survivors but also about killers but hey great story.
The metrics show nothing at all, maybe read up on it.
Wasn't it just 1 purple addon that did that, and a random chance with King? I didn't play doctor a whole lot, and never even used that addon, but i don't see it as being that good. It seems it would only counter dead hard, and i guess balanced landing. It doesn't seem like that big a deal, plus if losing an addon is a really a huge nerf, then i don't know what to tell you. It's not even a game changing addon, and I've never felt like I've needed it.
I mentioned this after the stream. I thought the main reason for them reworking him was because his passive static field was annoying to face. But peanits replied just explaining it wasn't the only reason they were looking at making changes to him
Glad to see your anecdotal subjective takes, that really put me in my place -.-
What's even better is I went at length to explain (and give you evidence) of aforementioned points. I guess the issue is when it doesn't fit your world view.
But by all means provide some evidence this time round, maybe you have a point 🙄
Where did you hear that? I thought he got reworked because he sucked, and was the weakest killer. The way they reworked him made him alot stronger, and people complained about fake pallets and forever Freddy.
Pig did get nerfed with endgame, and is one of the weaker killers, but i got her recently, and I've been having a ton of fun with her, and I've been winning (4k) alot. I know she's considered weak, but i hope she doesn't get totally changed like freddy did.
What a joke.
Your conclusions are hilarious, meanwhile you have more killers playing survivor. Killer lobbies are instant, you seriously bring up the introduction of bloodlust (OMEGALUL) seriously if any survivor fails to survive it is because he/she/it is horrible at the game.
Your evidence has as much value as bringing up depip squad and act as if this is still the same game.
You went at length to give your opinion as a bad survivor who struggles even with all crutches available and most maps in favor of survivors with little to no challenge unless you face somebody that is really good but hey since matchmaking is a complete joke, you will only end up to own some noob that doesn't even have 3 perks.
He was nerfed right after release because survivors hated him. It took over a year for them to finally rework him into something viable.
They are reworking Doc because his static field annoys survivors and they complain that there’s no stealth because they don’t know how to play against him. His changes make him sound not only weaker but also less unique. He’s still a generic M1 killer only now his special power is limited to one use per minute which means less Madness for everyone which means more gen rush for survivors.
lol are you ok?
Your wall of text reminds me of the last exchange you had sometime ago, where I didn't bother replying. For the simple reason that there was no substance too it.
I don't see ANYTHING else here, just like last time.
Do you even know what subjective and anecdotal means?
I'm not going to bother posting the website deets I mentioned last time or the ingame timer. Because all your just going to conveniently forget it again and say something to the effect of 'no you didn't'.
😂
Yeah dude, keep talking about patch 1.5.0 lmao. This how long your evidence dates back. Git gud as survivor. Just like when you state facts about nurse. Nurse is broken killer. <- Those are your facts. Not anecdotal at all or completely irrelevant, lul. 🤣
Please go to urban dictionary and update wall of text with your definition. 😂
Like I said..... 😏
His power is zapping them so they can't vault/throw pallets. Which they are buffing because he doesn't have to switch modes anymore. It does kinda suck that they are "fixing" him for stealth players, but that was a very small aspect of his character, and he is getting his terror blast, which is the same effect, but the doc has to decide if it's worth blasting, so whispers might get more use on him.
Get used to it, OP. Survivors outnumber killer players both in game and in the community, and survivors also buy more skins. So their enjoyment will always comes first. Maybe they could just replace the killers with bots. Anyways. I'll reserve actual judgment on the doc until the PTB, but I don't have a lot of faith. BVHR has a ######### track record with reworks, Freddy notwithstanding.
Yeah i wanna prevent last time, you know where you defended yourself on the pages afterwards for the bs that you stated. Will you finally give me the video evidence where you mindgame the god loops? Still waiting for that vs the good survivors. 😘
That's not fair to the doctor he's my main and I would hate to see him get worse than he already is.
You get one blast a minute. It’s a huge nerf.
At the end of the day he’ll be an even worse M1 killer than he is now.
You think they are doing the doc changes because they are survivor sided? That makes no sense. They're trying to make him less annoying, not weaker. There's a very big difference. Why would you want any killer to be annoying to go against?
Comparing dbd with league ? Really ? 2 comletly diffrent things. Darius does not have a 60% ban rate not even in bronze and has around 30 40% and only 2% in challenger so would love to know which site you were using to get that information. And Darius is not even annoying to fight late game on early. Survivors still has all the tools to make them alot stonger then the killer
Well if survivor players all dc or stop playing, the game won’t function. The doctor is annoying af, so is legion. I don’t quit when I see them but I do roll my eyes and prepare to be annoyed.
btw isn’t the doc rework a buff?
You get one blast per minute for the AoE effect. But he still keeps his normal shock. At least that's how I understood it.
I just realized something.
One of the things that people say about the Doctor is that his perks don't have any synergy with his power, but after seeing the changes they are planning I noticed this:
This rework should make running his own perks worthwhile at least.
Doc as he stands now is my favorite killer, though I'm interested and hopeful regarding his changes. I'm fairly confident that he's going to have add-ons that will reduce his Shock Blast recharge time, though it's just whimsical speculation until we see it at work in the PTB. If the aim is to make him more fun to play as, and I already have a lot of fun playing as him, I hope that the end result does exactly that - takes a killer I love playing as and makes me feel even more love for him and his spiky bat and head full of surgical instruments.
You mentioned making doctor more 'fun' to play as/against, which is subjective depending on the side you play most. What you have not mentioned is how you plan on making him not just viable against potatoes, but a strong competitor against solid survivors. Given the track record you guys have for the majority of your balance changes, I'd be surprised if this rework doesn't just leave doctor exactly where he is - the garbage bin.
You are confusing his new Static Blast with his regular Shock Therapy attack.
His current Shock Therapy attack is not tied to a cooldown. His new big Static Blast, which is replacing the passive Static field, is what has the cooldown.
The big thing now is that he can zap someone with Shock Therapy to block vault/pallet and then M1 them more efficiently because he no longer needs to switch stances to get the attack in.
I'm still waiting for the killer rework that allows the killer to do gens. The devs will say because the survivors found it annoying having to do the gens by themselves. They'll call it a killer buff too.....
In what way is allowing the Doctor to more efficiently M1 a Survivor after blocking the pallet/vault not a buff?
No more grabs, no more finding survivors with your static field, getting a 1 minute cool down on your power when most matches in the high ranks last about 5 minutes. Oh yeah what a buff. 🙄
Yes. Just like you made nurse " more fun to play against and fun to play as ". Just like you made Oni " More fun to play against " and " fixed some bugs " . just like you made spirit " more fun to play against "
You guys don't know what fun is. And you are also incredibly scared to make big moves. Same meta for a long long time. People asked for old nurse kit back, nothing. People were extremely unsatisfied with the oni changes. Nothing. People want solo queue to stop being crap. Nothing. People want weak killers to be viable and feel satisfying. Nothing. People always burnout from playing this game from the lack of content. You have to start adding balance updates, whenever they need to be launched, not have a set calendar date like the roadmap , no , when balance is needed, balance the damn game
A bit biased. Are we? Freddy was very weak. Needing to wait until the survivors are asleep in order to hit them. A lot of times survivors took advantage of it when someone was laying in the floor so they could heal him/her.
True to a point. Survivor queues are getting longer and longer. I suspect it is because Killers are getting fed up BHVR constantly stacking the deck against them. Soon enough, survivors can play lobby simulator with their fresh cosmetics.
Not saying that is not the case. What is apparent is the whole reason for the rework was because survivors did not enjoy playing against him. If killers who play Doctor get more fun out of playing as him, that is simply a side benefit. The fun of Doctor players does not appear to be the main or even equal objective of the rework.
It's increible how biased and victimist people can be. What happended with the Oni was never intentional. The spirit is still one of the stronger and fun to play killer. The "nerf" of spirit was necessary, it wasn't ok for survivors to "oh, I got stuck, a survivor must be here", I mean the main idea of her power is not knowing where the survivors are but guessing where they are.
The Nurse is not fun to play at the moment but I don't believe they were in the wrong road, only they took things a bit too far with her basekit.
Bruh if that's the reason it doesn't make any sense. Doctor for me is one of the easiest and least annoying killers to go against. I actually think he deserves a buff. If anyone I find killers like clown the annoying ones to go against (note: not powerful, just annoying (or moreso boring))
1 blast for free madness tier up, he can still do his cock blocking zaps mid chase to down survivors, and doesn't have to switch modes to do it. Seems like he's getting a base zero rework. Seems good to me, although he is quite weak, so a buff would have been nice. (Weak at base, i guess, some addons do make him really good.)
You kinda just ignored my question, but okay. You understand that Shock Therapy is not on a cooldown, right?
My point is 1 slight buff and 3 nerfs does not equal a buff. It's not some crazy op buff either.
Replacing Static Field with Static Blast is arguably a buff. Field does very little once everyone is at Madness Tier 1. And the interaction I mentioned is probably the one saving grace Doc has for people who know how to effectively use it. This change makes that easier to do.
Yeah, and LoL is a free game, a MOBA and doesn't have base game plus dlc with a pricetag over $120.- plus micro transaction and season passes.
Their income rely entirely on cosmetics and optional game boosts. No champion is behind a mandatory paywall nor is a summoner spell. They even provide free, rotating, champions. As a good player you even can earn free chests and key and eventually get almost every skin, emote, ward etc for free. Just recently got my medieval twitch skin from being an nice teamplayer. A skin otherwise not even obtainable anymore with money.
Why is DBD not free with all it's micro transactions and season passes?
Why can't every killer and survivor be bought with shards?
And in league there will always be some "annoying" champion that are great at noob stomping in lower elos, but as soon you invest a bit time in the game, you figure out how to counter them.
Can we still play all previous Doctor playstyles to the same extend like before?
Max TR Doc?
Sniper Doc?
Madness King Doc?
BP-Farming Doc?
Why is 2 trap Trapper not base already? Would it kill the game?
Doc is now unfun to play and will be unfun after his rework. He will still be a M1 Killer with some bullshit M2 mechanic. I don't even need to read the patchnotes to tell you that much. I would like the devs to prove me wrong though, but I don't have too much confidence in their understanding of creating fun to play killers anymore.
Big big +1 of everything in this post.. won't change a thing though people will complain without looking at the big picture...
He was annoying to verse and was under powered, so yes, he was reworked to make him more powerful and less annoying to verse... Like if your going to rework a killer, you may as well fix all the issues, not just a buff... Jus saying..
Easy solution: don’t play Legion. He’s just bad
Nurse on the other hand it still very good, and very much the same. It just takes a little longer to down someone.
No idea why they removed his exhaustion add-on effects...They should have kept them while making the random skillcheck directions a part of his base kit.
True, doctor is pretty stressful to play against but no in a "you've got no chance" way.
Stop screwing around with the characters