kaister901
kaister901
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@danielmaster87 said:
MMR as a concept isn't the issue. The devs could just fix it to the way it was at the start. You lose a lot? Low MMR. You win a lot? High MMR. With plenty of different levels in between. And then use that data to determine what balance decisions are good. You're complaining about sweaty matches... which will still exist if they just get rid of MMR, except they will be out of nowhere because "random matchmaking is such a good idea!" and you'll be stomped because you weren't prepared. Your solution doesn't solve anything.
I always find it funny: Even as you're talking about wanting to play the game chill, you're still complaining about killers bringing gen defence, which btw is SO last year. I don't know what it's gonna take for people to realize that gen defence doesn't work anymore. "Oh, but it beats bad players! That makes it meta, right?!" You bet! 👍🙄
You also sound like you care about survivors' fun while playing as killer, so all this probably falls on deaf ears. No other game's community prioritizes their opponents' fun over all else. I don't care about my opponents. That doesn't mean I bully them, a popular pastime of most of this game's players, but I do want my kills or escapes. You wanting that, but also caring about your opponents' fun and not getting good, does not compute. The game should not be balanced around out-of-game issues.
I do agree that if they're going to have MMR, at least make the dang thing work. 1 night recently it was just a loss fest for me. 12+ games in, none of them being wins, the game kept feeding me ridiculously difficult matches. I should have been put in lower MMR for easier matches, but that day the MMR just decided not to. This is why I don't want us going back to random matchmaking. Give me consistency. Same goes for balance. Why would you nerf killer perks into unusability, but survivor perks are always functional afterwards? I.e. the Hangman's rework compared to the Buckle Up rework. Why would you say you're nerfing Pain Res because the killer "simply hooks the survivor," but you don't acknowledge the survivor perks that have been meta since 2017? Just put people up against like-hours/like-skilled opponents, and balance off it. That's it.
"gen defence, which btw is SO last year"
Except for the fact among the statistics published by the devs, gen regression perks are still among the top 10 perks picked. If they were so last year, they would have disappeared. I can give you an actual meta build that died. The machine gun build, unrelenting + STBFL. In their original version, they gave killers essentially zero attack cooldown. You don't see anyone run that build anymore. Gen defence was nerfed but they are still used especially at higher MMR, you will not see a killer run zero gen regression perks.
"You also sound like you care about survivors' fun while playing as killer"
So, you got I care more about survivor mains from reading this ?
" Then as killer, it is even worse because you are up against 4 people that cannot be mind gamed doesn't matter solo or SWF."
Interesting indeed.
Maybe you don't but into neutrality. I do. There is no us vs them. Both sides deserve to be fun to play. Now you are right it is not your job to care about the other side. However, it is the same mentality that leads to sweat on both sides. All the unfun tactics that both side complain about is the results of this.
I play fair when I play both sides. As survivor, I don't go out of my way to bully the killer. If the killer is near me, I try for a flashlight safe, I don't chase them around the map to ruin their day. That is because it sucks for the killer player when you have survivors that are up in their face. As a killer, I always go for a new target, never tunnel or camp. I could make my life as killer way easier by tunnelling out survivors near death hook. However, I know it sucks for that survivor player. So, I go out of my way to go for new targets. Which is also what the devs are pushing for killers to do. However, that is easier said than done at higher MMR.
"1 night recently it was just a loss fest for me. 12+ games in, none of them being wins, the game kept feeding me ridiculously difficult matches. I should have been put in lower MMR for easier matches, but that day the MMR just decided not to."
That is because there is a soft cap for MMR. You will never go below that soft cap no matter how many times you lose. So, if you make it to mid MMR or high MMR. You will lower in MMR until you hit that soft cap and stay there. There was a twitter post by a Halo developer on MMR. Even he ensured MMR allowed for variety, some games you get easy games, some you get stomped, and others that are a close call. That is not the case with DBD's MMR system.
"Same goes for balance. Why would you nerf killer perks into unusability, but survivor perks are always functional afterwards? I.e. the Hangman's rework compared to the Buckle Up rework. "
I think you are exaggerating when you say survivor perks are always functional. Definitely not. There are a couple that did become useless. However, they do certainly take longer to hit survivor perks compared to killer perks. That I have definitely noticed. I assume because there is some bias. Which may or may not be true. I have noticed that some of the devs share that same us vs them mentality when speaking about killers. It could also be from a business perspective, they decided catering to the majority is better. You need 4 survivors for every killer. I am sure survivor mains will disagree on that. -
@totallynotamegmain said:
I agree, I don’t like having to try in this game (I’m being 100% serious, I don’t want to play this silly game in high MMR because I can’t run my funny builds T_T)
I still feel like MMR just dosent work for a game like this, with its ever changing balance and new broken (I use broken very lightly because I’ve seen some killer sand survivors go crazy over stupid stuff) combos/perks every two weeks
Totally agree. The old matchmaking was not perfect. Like, you had people deranking to bully newbies. Despite that, it was still more tolerable. The game difficulty was pretty varied. Sometimes I get stomped 5 games in a row and other times I get 5 easy games in a row. So, it was more palatable. However, playing the game now? If you are stuck at the lower cap of high MMR, you are done for. Either try to get good playing only a couple hours a week or just get used to losing constantly.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/417341/is-slugging-bannable-now
Pretty sure it is not bannable...
Thanks for the reply. Just wanted to make sure. I guess some survivor players were trying to just pull a fast one on Facebook claiming it is bannable.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468737#Comment_3468737
Or escape rates are still extremely low and everyone is blowing a new perk out of proportion as usual.
The devs themselves have admitted that it is not wise to balance the game based on data alone. There are so many factors as to why kill rates are above 50% for half the killers. You have to consider new players and players that don't master survivor that drag down the survival rate even if higher MMR players survive more. Then there is the matter of the devs wanting to keep the game a horror game and kill rates at 60% not 50%. I can't find the post where they mention it. However, the goal is to have a 60% kill rate not a 50/50 - win/loss rate for the game. That is their goal. So, that's what you are seeing.
However, that said. That still doesn't mean the balance should be based on statistics alone. For example, Myers. He has a 60% kill rate. Yet most would agree he is one of the weakest killers. He only is strong when he uses is iridescent add ons, which unless you have farmed 100s over 1000s of hours, you won't have with you all the time.
So, now you have a killer that destroys when he has iridescent add ons and loses badly when he doesn't. So, when you average it out, it hits that 60%. So, is Myers weak or strong then? Is a killer that totally dependant on an iridescent add on considered strong or weak? Some say he is strong. I say he is weak because it is not economically reasonable to expect every player to have iridescent add ons all the time for Myers. Therefore, balancing on stats alone is a bad idea. You need to look at all these other factors before saying the game is too killer sided.
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@ProffessorTV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466087#Comment_3466087
They could change it to at least allow them the opportunity to get off of the hooks and if they don't succeed and progress, then just kill them, it'll drag the game on by a few seconds, is that seriously the end of the world?
In a game that lasts on average 7 minutes? Yes. An additional 30 seconds or more does make a difference. It's a waste of time especially when it is only catering for 10% of the players that did escape after unhooking themselves.You are speaking from the point of low MMR where survivors don't last more than 10 seconds at chases. At higher MMR, chases last way longer and it only unnecessarily prolongs the game.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466183#Comment_3466183
And same can be said of survivors just rushing gens because if there is somebody getting tunneled out or even camped there is nothing else they can do about it. It's become a vicious cicle and both strategies have become the comfort playstyle by default for many players that only. Killers don't want survivors to sit on gens but they also don't want to be the kind of survivors that just mess around going for flashlight saves and such things that actually require interaction. There is such displeasment in the community that is truly hard to satisfy so I don't even blame the devs for not knowing what to do at this point, because this community is complicated to satisfy due to the asymetrical nature of the game. If the community knew how to enjoy the quirky, silly and casual nature of the game, it would be another story.
Well, this is a different topic to what my post is about. However, the direction the developers are taking the game is towards competitive e sports. I agree this game is just a party game and should have remained that way. Regardless, the direction the company has decided to move towards is competitive play. That means balance has to be on point. If you make changes to one side, you must look at the other side in its entirety and see if they get too strong in anyway.
Also this might be a personal bias. I am not sure. I find that changes made to killers are much faster than to survivors. If something is too strong on the killer side, they are more quick to fix that than if there is something too strong on the survivor side. For example, gen regression meta did not last long. They were quick to hit that hard. It took a long time before CoH was changed for good. Same for DH, it took a long time before it was made less oppressive to killers.
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@Danoobiel said:
Made for this + Hope is bad.
The way this game is now 2k is an epic win for me.
BTW I'm playing in bronze tier and I don't want to imagine what goes in in my usual purple tier.
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466183#Comment_3466183
1, sure it doesn't. Same as yours. I am just stating my experience and stats
2, there are unofficial stats from nightlight. They are not as accurate, but it's the best thing available.
3, if we are talking really OP things, then I absolutely agree. But we are talking about hope+mft (so get to endgame and don't be exhausted). As you stated yourself - the more perks you "kill" for endgame, the less genrush perks you can take. Meaning you actively lower your chance to get to endgame at all - so if we are not talking old eruption or one of first versions of DS, then perk count actually counts (same as spirit fury+enduring is OK, because it requires 2 perks to work).
1) You can take a look at how many are agreeing on what I said vs how many are not. If you want to argue it was just me saying this and no one else. Then yes my experience is just as anecdotal as yours. However, with more people agreeing this combination needs fixing then I would say my anecdotal experience is more in line with the overall player experience. Sure, you can argue there only a few replies to this post. Unless you could make a survey post to get a larger sample size, this post and the replies are all there is to reflect the overall experience by players. Which is many do experience this combination giving an unfair advantage.
2) You say it is unofficial and then say it is the best thing? If it is unofficial then it is susceptible to bias and errors. Which makes it unreliable.
3) This again comes down to your personal opinion rather than the overall experience. Which I have already explained to you in point 1.
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@adaw0ng said:
Both sides have an objective rush obsession derivated from extremely competetive mindset. Killers tunnel out survivors as soon as possible and survivors tunnel gens as soon as possible because all people want to do is win (fair enough I guess) no matter what. Both sides have a problem right now.
Tunnelling is a necessity because of the gen rush meta that never gets addressed. If you play fair and switch survivors, at any given time there will always be 3 survivors on gen. Whereas if you tunnel out 1 person at the start then there will only be 2 survivors on gens at any given time. That slows the game down. Tunnelling is a result or rather response to the lack of action taken against the gen rush meta.
@Gandor said:
the post is not entirely precise. PTS does nothing in solo and not even fully negates basekit malus of repairing with multiple people - the perk is ideally absolutely never used, but for very last generator. For resi + dejavu = 15% that gives 12s quicker repair speed. That's basically negates +10s we got at 6.1 patch for the cost of 2 perk slots. MfT according to usage rate is not even as good as lithe or sprint burst. I know I stopped using it already. As for stacking with hope, it means again 2 perk slots. Making it 4 occupied perk slots just for a niche and being injured most of the time.
IDK, but I see absolutely 0 problems with it. 4 perk slots for that vs pop+pain res+jolt+eruption for slowdown. Whoever can get downs/prolong chases wins.
First of all your anecdotal experience does not reflect the overall picture. Secondly, the perk made for this has been barely out for a month and you are going to dictate that the stats show is low? Where did you even get the stats from to begin with? The devs have not released one yet.
Thirdly, it is not whether you are wasting 1 perk slot or 2 perk slots. That is not even a proper arguing point. So, we now balance things based on how many perk slots it takes up? What logical argument is that? Broken mechanics are broken, it is not up to question of how many slots it takes. By your logic then, old unrelenting and STBFL combo in 2017 did not need a nerf. It took 2 slots to lower the attack cooldown. Obviously that combination needed a nerf and it was not up for debate about it taking 2 slots.
Your entire argument summed up is all about how many perk slot a strategy uses. That is absolutely irrelevant to whether a strategy is broken or not. Which in this case of gen rush and movement speed. They absolutely are. The fact that survivors can make a loop last twice as long with made for this alone, let alone with hope means it's busted. As for saying, "it negates the +10s, so its fine." How is that even logical? The reason they increased the time was to quite literally give more time for killers after the complete removal of gen regressions as a strategy in the game.
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They have already addressed this issue when they introduced the mechanic. 90% of games end up with the last survivor in the match still dying after unhooking themselves. In other words 90% of the games were dragged on unnecessarily. Therefore, they introduced the mechanic to make matches end quicker. Now you may argue that means 10% of the time survivors could have escaped. Are you then suggesting we allow 90% of games to extend beyond what is needed just to cater for 10% of the matches? That makes no sense.
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" (really, get over Teabagging... If they are immature, be at least so mature and stand above it)"
You seem to have confused being mature and not putting up with bad behaviour. Being mature means you don't do the same thing back to them. If someone does something bad to you, you don't go back and do that to them. That's being mature. That does not mean you allow them to continue exhibiting such behaviours.
Many other games have successfully implemented mechanics that curb bad behaviour. Word filters in some games even account for slangs and abbreviations and foreign language. It's tough to achieve that but that's what this game needs.
End game is a step in the right direction to force people to have better behaviour in game.
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Yea that lol.
The days when survivors would just camp the gates.....unless you go there to give them the satisfaction of tea bagging.
Now, at most they spam vault to annoy you a little but they have to get out eventually.
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I wish killers would derank much more easily.
I derank on survivor so much and it's so hard to pip. Whereas as killer...I don't get any kills and I still safety pip...
The whole point of a killer is to kill....what's the point of rewarding me for not securing any kills?
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She is definitely mid tier.
Has no chase potential. Nothing to help end chases.
More of an annoyance really. Like docs shock therapy inflictions. Exhaustion, blindness all that. They don't really affect you. Just make it more troublesome to do objectives.
The attack itself is more like novelty. Fun for a while until you get bored of it. It was pretty darn quick with legion. It was fun jumping pallets but his power is trash....
I will probably by the DLC she looks really nice as a killer and the vomit projectile feels like L4D zombie. So it will be fun playing her but I don't see her as top tier. Which the devs made clear....no more top tier killers...so that's that...
Perks are really interesting. The terror radius one. Imagine that ######### on the nurse or billy.....the mobility and the temporary zero terror radius is gonna be great.
Gen block. Also amazing. So basically it's an easy find survivor perk. Time is the essence for the killer and finding survivors quick, really helps.
Last one, probably the new meta for me. ######### my pants perk. A mini BBQ and also anti flashlight perk. No more hiding or running behind me to flashlight save, you are gonna scream. Guaranteed. Much better than Doc static.
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@fcc2014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/342711#Comment_342711
And you play as Legion? I still see people dc against him freddy and the doc.
DC against freddy and Doc are the most hilarious games....
Like control your ego people....
Play the game and get better...
As a killer player. I used to DC a lot from rage quits but now I don't really. I have kinda maxed out on my killers and BPs is often maxed out.
So I just play a killer that I want to try and learn and get better. Lose plenty of times but it's less stressful when I don't worry about 4ks.
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@Superpablog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/330137#Comment_330137
If a partner farm me, i can use it again; if killer don't tunnel, i won't use it neither once
If a team mate farms you?
So the killer has to the pay the price for a dumb team mate? That makes sense....
If you want a multiple DS use....then gens need to take significantly longer. 3 minutes per gen at least, if not more.
A 4 man team with multiple DS use...is just back to sqaure one....
DS and NOED aren't meant to be perks that help new players. Making them too strong would mean disastrous at higher ranks for killer or survivor.
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Hope it's not anything like the legion.
They are pretty much solid after that.
Incense burner. I don't think will have to do with his power. More like a hint at the lore of the killer. Like some ancient killer which they did mention in the stream.
Guess we have to wait till next week for the reveal.
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If you are camped....just hope your team does gens.
2 minutes is plenty of time if your team coordinates and decide to do gens while you buy time. The killer would only secure 1 kill.
I mean if you are saying it's a team based game then what is the problem in you buying time for others to do gens?
Isn't it selfish to say no they shouldn't do gens and I should be able to get rescued?
Watch good survivor game plays.
The gene management...is amazing. Even gen placement. They do not bottle neck themselves at the last 3 gens.
Watch those gameplays and learn. Same as killer, if you need to camp...go watch killer plays and learn to play better.
Now days I don't bother with a 4k....it's either I got it easily or I had to sweat my butt off for it....
So I play chill.
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I don't get his power lol to be honest.
So I can charge and get a hit on the survivor but after that I cannot hit them again with my ability or it does nothing. So I have to normal chase and hit them with a normal hit, if I want to down them?
I don't quite understand how is that a good ability or I just don't know how to utilise it.
Many say you are suppose to hit them and let them escape to heal and catch them then. Which sounds so dumb to me. Why would I put in effort to deep wound them and then go find someone else? So when the heck will I even down a person lol?
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Then you just reply to them. Haha git gud beeeetch.
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Yea the bleed out timer is wack. Like I get you want people to not be tunneled down and have a chance to play the game but that totally removes the killer's momentum. Especially with BT being of infinite use.
Which essentially forces the killer to go after another survivor and in a game with usually 1 to 2 gens done before you even get your first hook in. It's really debilitating.
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Survivor tier list? LOL!
Aren't they all the same, they have no special abilities specific to each. Just which character you choose to get all the perks on lol.
If you mean by base perks. Then sure but doesn't matter does it?
They are all the same in the end.
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@Avariku said:
I like it because contrary to your experiences I run into campers quite often. 1/3-4 matches usually at rank 9-11.and yea, borrowed time was a thing, but then the camper became a tunneler and the bs cycle continued.
the pause on the timer fixes that. I also expect many things from this patch will be tweaked over time.
also, if you didn't notice, I acknowledge its gonna suck to go up against, but I feel its the price we all have to pay due to some toxic players behavior.
(for the record, I usually have nothing against tunneling because, when not done with toxic motives, its essentially just target prioritization)
Toxic players? I don't know about toxic killers. I only tunnel down survivors that BM. Other wise I play a normal game. I already maxed out everything. So it's more of just having fun at this point but if I ever do tunnel to ruin a game for someone, it's for people that BM in game.
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@Visionmaker said:
@kaister901 said:
The average rate is 2? So that means 2 people survive and 2 die..How are you quoting a statistic that supports what I said?
A plethora of nerfs to survivor? Care to list them down? Cuz the biggest one was removing the vaccum of pallets which is something both sides loved.
"Survivors make mistakes. Survivors are overly altruistic". There you go, again another point agreeing with what I said which was said by tydetyme in the video. Which obviously you didn't watch because if you did. You wouldn't be making that argument.
A killer has no control over how the game goes. It's all in the survivor hands. Survivors makes mistakes by being overly altruistic? That's my point...
That's not an ideal game...if you want a definition of an ideal game...is when both sides play smart...no over altruistic team. Good gen management. Good hook management. Killer does his best in hooking every one at least once. If both sides play optimal. The killer is still heavily punished for the 2nd kill. Coming from your very statistic that is 2 or more on average...in other words it's 2...the middle number is 2...
By the way how many hours have you clocked in by any chance? I have 3k hours and I know when a killer perk is too op and when a survivor perk is too op. You don't sound anywhere near to having played this game long.40% of people survive through gates and hatch, 60% die. The rates would be even lower to account for D/Cs. That's not 2:2. This goes for all ranks. Including the supposed tippy top.
I thought we were talking about a realistic game, not a sweaty hypothetical ranting about an asymmetrical game's core necessities.
I was going to list the changes for you, but then I recall that you clocked in 3000 hours of the game. So if you don't notice how your games have been changing for you over time, then perhaps that speaks for the 'value' of your 'experience'.
Go. Cling onto a disillusioned rant from January. The devs should see exactly who they are pandering to and how much they actually get from it.
@KingB said:
@Visionmaker did they dodge swf groups? What killer/perks did they use? How many matches were played and how many kills did they average? There was also a depip experiment and 94% of games depipped the killer I believe. I don't need to facecamp either, if I camp it's either to 3 Gen or proxy.I don't know. I think you can search "Camping experiment" in the forum and you can find the thread. I posted once, but I wasn't very active at the time and can't remember the user's name. IIRC, HybridPanda also posted a gameplay series that he tested camping with, but I don't know how far he went with it.
That's great. Marth had an interesting concept. That doesn't defeat the fact that camping is practical enough to bring a killer to Rank 1 May not be helpful in a tournament, but it is enough for our ranking system.
I was going to list the changes for you.
Yea more like you don't have any to list.
Go. Cling onto a disillusioned rant from January. The devs should see exactly who they are pandering to and how much they actually get from it.
Probably they should be listening to people who are spending more time playing their game than casuals like you.
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@Delfador said:
@kaister901 said:
@Delfador said:
Tunneling is a very cheap concept and I am glad that it gets nerfed by buffing BT.
For both sides, game started to become more and more difficult and this is whether people accept it or not, a very positive thing. No more cheap wins.
Bullshit main buildings like barn or storehouse got nerfed to the ground. Those buildings required absolutely no skill, no mindgame chance for the killer and even no bloodlust for 110% ms killers for the most part. Tunneling doesn't require much skill, it is a tactic that is for sure but at least now survivors are gonna have something to say about it. More skill oriented, less bullshit.
Not to mention this is a perk. Most people are not gonna even bother using it.Tunneling takes no skill? Yea just like looping. Going in circles for 4 times and dropping a pallet and moving to next loop spot is braindead too but survivors defend it with their lives because what other way do you have to survive?
Similarly tunneling down the one you already hooked is a guaranteed kill...it's braindead but the most economical for you as a killer. Similar to how no brain pallet looping is economical for a survivor to buy time for their team.
Looping used to not take much skill because windows were really safe and there were many looping spots that didn't allow killers to mindgame. Now the game changed and most of those spots are gone. Looping is not braindead easy anymore. Not to mention that killers have perks like bamboozle that instantly kills shack and jungle gyms.
Waiting in front of a survivor and then hitting him doesn't take any skill at all. At least, now survivors can say something about it by sacrificing one perk slot.So as a killer I must burn an entire perk slot to counter an in built game mechanic that is looping to help survivors survive? Sounds pretty balanced really. An entire perk slow to counter a game mechanic. How about just fix the game mechanic I.e the map design. Instead of forcing a meta perk? That you will have eventually revisit because it became meta?
Also bamboozled only works with window loops. Pallet loops are still a thing and thanks to map design there is still a ton of pallets around that survivor can go in circle 4 times. Drop and run to the next one. How do I know that? Cuz it happens often at high ranks. I have to either eat through the pallets or go find another survivor. Which is such a huge waste of time.
People use annoying tactics because it works and the answer is not nerfing the other player for utilising it. Change the game mechanic, change how survivors loop. Lesser pallets and loop spots. Give survivors faster gen repair speeds instead.
Change how killers can kill. Just make it simple. You won't be unable to hook the same person till you hook another one. Done. I cannot tunnel. Take it out of the game itself, if tunneling is so frowned upon. Do that and remove loops. Fix the game mechanic itself and you will see gameplay changes.
The fact it remains it means it's a game mechanic they cannot or won't change and it's wrong to punish those who use it when you provide them with that only means. Give more options that are just as economical to use.
Yea like I said...it's dumb not to be economical since time is a factor against the killer.
You can watch tydetyme video to understand that point better.
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@Visionmaker said:
@kaister901 said:
@Visionmaker said:
@kaister901 said:
@purebalance said:
@HellDescent said:
You know how you try to secure that last kill when the gates are open? Well, no more....You still just have to hit twice like before. I carry borrowed time on characters that don't have the perks I want because too often there's camping shitters who want to sit there and slash at the hooked person like an idiot and even if I body block one hit they still try for that potato that they know they're going to get.
Then what about legit players that do go to patrol and hunt others? In a realistic game. You get about 2 kills and the second kill is usually the last unlucky player when gates are open.
So with BT basically being infinite use and infinite timer. I am going to get punished for also playing a normal game. Given it's a meta perk it's a guaranteed in every game.
I am sorry for you if you only have 2 kills on average, with your last kill being a facecamp. I do not think that is an accurate depiction of the game.
You should try to punish the unhooker, especially if you are going to camp anyway. It will net you more points and take the same amount of effort.
Uh buddy that's what a balanced game looks like. If you are not camping a balanced out game gives 2 kills on average.
Getting 3 or 4 kills often involves survivors doing mistakes on their part.
The control of the game winning or losing is predominantly in the survivor's hands. Since all killers are susceptible to loops with a few exceptions. No killer has the ability to slow down gens to give them more time. Other than certain perks like ruin which often disappear within a few seconds.
Tydetime did a good job in explaining this.
Punishing a killer trying to lock that last kill in is dumb in so many levels. Especially if they played a fair game.
So the killer is suppose to "fall for the bait" and go after another fully healed survivor and obviously lose that survivor eventually. What logic is that? Only S and A tier killers would even stand a chance to down a healthy survivor. Other tier killers would be screwed massively. Like you can forget about freddy or wraith. No special ability to lock in a fresh kill.
That's a realistic game. Survivors make mistakes. Survivors are overly altruistic. Survivors can come in two pairs of SWF, each with their own different agendas. Survivors throw others under the bus or expose their teammates.
Statistically, the survival rate is below 2 survivors, not accounting for D/Cs and matches that start with 3 players.
Where were you the last ten months? #########? Do you need to see the patch notes? The only remaining issue is the strength of SWF over solos and average gen time. There has been a plethora of nerfs to survivors over each and every patch, including the most recent Spirit patch.
If you are within facecamping distance and fail to injure an unhooker twice, that is your mistake. The same would happen in a regular game. You need to hit them twice or they escape, except you can't chase them around the same pallet for 20 seconds anymore.
The average rate is 2? So that means 2 people survive and 2 die..
How are you quoting a statistic that supports what I said?
A plethora of nerfs to survivor? Care to list them down? Cuz the biggest one was removing the vaccum of pallets which is something both sides loved.
"Survivors make mistakes. Survivors are overly altruistic". There you go, again another point agreeing with what I said which was said by tydetyme in the video. Which obviously you didn't watch because if you did. You wouldn't be making that argument.
A killer has no control over how the game goes. It's all in the survivor hands. Survivors makes mistakes by being overly altruistic? That's my point...
That's not an ideal game...if you want a definition of an ideal game...is when both sides play smart...no over altruistic team. Good gen management. Good hook management. Killer does his best in hooking every one at least once. If both sides play optimal. The killer is still heavily punished for the 2nd kill. Coming from your very statistic that is 2 or more on average...in other words it's 2...the middle number is 2...
So a optimal killer is still penalised for that 2nd kill. With a no one shot ability and B tier killer onwards is done for. It's the killer's fault for not getting in 2 hits? Let's see with SB meta. I hit the rescuing survivor once and they SB out after saving. I am still done for. Chase them down? Not if my killer has not chasing ability....
By the way how many hours have you clocked in by any chance? I have 3k hours and I know when a killer perk is too op and when a survivor perk is too op. You don't sound anywhere near to having played this game long.
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@Delfador said:
Tunneling is a very cheap concept and I am glad that it gets nerfed by buffing BT.
For both sides, game started to become more and more difficult and this is whether people accept it or not, a very positive thing. No more cheap wins.
Bullshit main buildings like barn or storehouse got nerfed to the ground. Those buildings required absolutely no skill, no mindgame chance for the killer and even no bloodlust for 110% ms killers for the most part. Tunneling doesn't require much skill, it is a tactic that is for sure but at least now survivors are gonna have something to say about it. More skill oriented, less bullshit.
Not to mention this is a perk. Most people are not gonna even bother using it.Tunneling takes no skill? Yea just like looping. Going in circles for 4 times and dropping a pallet and moving to next loop spot is braindead too but survivors defend it with their lives because what other way do you have to survive?
Similarly tunneling down the one you already hooked is a guaranteed kill...it's braindead but the most economical for you as a killer. Similar to how no brain pallet looping is economical for a survivor to buy time for their team.
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@Visionmaker said:
@kaister901 said:
@purebalance said:
@HellDescent said:
You know how you try to secure that last kill when the gates are open? Well, no more....You still just have to hit twice like before. I carry borrowed time on characters that don't have the perks I want because too often there's camping shitters who want to sit there and slash at the hooked person like an idiot and even if I body block one hit they still try for that potato that they know they're going to get.
Then what about legit players that do go to patrol and hunt others? In a realistic game. You get about 2 kills and the second kill is usually the last unlucky player when gates are open.
So with BT basically being infinite use and infinite timer. I am going to get punished for also playing a normal game. Given it's a meta perk it's a guaranteed in every game.
I am sorry for you if you only have 2 kills on average, with your last kill being a facecamp. I do not think that is an accurate depiction of the game.
You should try to punish the unhooker, especially if you are going to camp anyway. It will net you more points and take the same amount of effort.
Uh buddy that's what a balanced game looks like. If you are not camping a balanced out game gives 2 kills on average.
Getting 3 or 4 kills often involves survivors doing mistakes on their part.
The control of the game winning or losing is predominantly in the survivor's hands. Since all killers are susceptible to loops with a few exceptions. No killer has the ability to slow down gens to give them more time. Other than certain perks like ruin which often disappear within a few seconds.
Tydetime did a good job in explaining this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB1fLYPme5chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB1fLYPme5cSo with that argument out of the way.
Punishing a killer trying to lock that last kill in is dumb in so many levels. Especially if they played a fair game.
So the killer is suppose to "fall for the bait" and go after another fully healed survivor and obviously lose that survivor eventually. What logic is that? Only S and A tier killers would even stand a chance to down a healthy survivor. Other tier killers would be screwed massively. Like you can forget about freddy or wraith. No special ability to lock in a fresh kill.
Not to mention often a good team work would mean tons of body blocking to defend the injured survivor and let them escape. So even if you decided to hunt the healthy one...you are screwed. If your killer has no one shot ability, that killer is done for.
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@purebalance said:
@HellDescent said:
You know how you try to secure that last kill when the gates are open? Well, no more....You still just have to hit twice like before. I carry borrowed time on characters that don't have the perks I want because too often there's camping shitters who want to sit there and slash at the hooked person like an idiot and even if I body block one hit they still try for that potato that they know they're going to get.
Then what about legit players that do go to patrol and hunt others? In a realistic game. You get about 2 kills and the second kill is usually the last unlucky player when gates are open.
So with BT basically being infinite use and infinite timer. I am going to get punished for also playing a normal game. Given it's a meta perk it's a guaranteed in every game.
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Well people just tested it out and guess I am wrong on this. Rancor does work. You can see the silouhette. So bitter and rancor are fine.
BBQ is affected and any aura see through is affected like myers see through wall is affected.
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@Visionmaker said:
@kaister901 said:
@PigNRun said:
@kaister901 said:
Well Aura is basically any perk that makes the survivor glow. So yea Rancor will be affected too.Except that isnt how Rancor works at all. It doesnt make Survivors glow, it shows Survivors as if their madness had tiered up.
And that lighing up is an Aura.
Ok put it simple Aura is basically survivors lighting up or glowing in any shape or form.
What is not an Aura is if you are actually looking at them or if it's a sound alert. Like quick and quiet stopping locker and vault sounds.
So yea rancor is definitely getting affected by the perk. Making it useless for 3 gens.
It's more likely that the effect doesn't even trigger. Meaning regardless of them going in or not. Their aura or alert won't be shown to you till 3 of their chances has been used up.
Rancor doesn't use auras. It reveals locations, not auras. Have you used Rancor at all?
So you are telling the red pop up silouhette of survivors is not an aura? Then what is it? it's red I can see it.
If you want the difference between and alert and an Aura. An alert is you vaulting or jumping into a locker fast. That loud sound is an alert and you don't see any body silhouette of the survivor. Like spies on the shadow alert. That is an alert.
If the survivor's silhouette pops up it's an aura. Simple as that.
So yes your rancor is gone for good too.
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Lol without even playing the game you are complaining that's fresh isn't it lol.
Breakdown is useless? A hook breaking down for 3 minutes each time the killer decides not to camp and let them play the game? That perk is useless really? Uh not ######### I will camp you if letting you go minus points from me and gives me a broken hook.
Empathy or bond is better? Both are one sided. The other person does not know where I am and it only benefits me.
This benefits 2 people....by choosing this perk you are creating a 5th perk for another user. If this is your friend in the same game. Assuming you don't use cheesy comms to bypass the lack of information. It's strong play. You know exactly where your friend is at all times and same goes for him.
3 tokens is way less? So you want all aura reading perks to be obsolete?
Here is a tip for you. The reason Aura perks are so dominant is because survivors complained killer's camp. The reason killer's camp is because it's easier to let the others come find me than for me to leave and lose my kill and at the same time not finding anyone.
You cannot have your cake and eat it mate.
Choose...one...less camping or less aura perks?
Cuz I don't camp when I use BBQ I can quickly go find others and not waste me hook. If my BBQ is going to show nothing for 3 hooks...why should I bother to not camp and guarantee myself a kill? Because it's noob? No it's the easier way...to a victory....
Same reason as to why you have meta survivor perks like SH and DS. That you guys will never complain about.
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@PigNRun said:
@kaister901 said:
Well Aura is basically any perk that makes the survivor glow. So yea Rancor will be affected too.Except that isnt how Rancor works at all. It doesnt make Survivors glow, it shows Survivors as if their madness had tiered up.
And that lighing up is an Aura.
Ok put it simple Aura is basically survivors lighting up or glowing in any shape or form.
What is not an Aura is if you are actually looking at them or if it's a sound alert. Like quick and quiet stopping locker and vault sounds.
So yea rancor is definitely getting affected by the perk. Making it useless for 3 gens.
It's more likely that the effect doesn't even trigger. Meaning regardless of them going in or not. Their aura or alert won't be shown to you till 3 of their chances has been used up.
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@TheBean said:
@Master said:
Also you should be aware what happens when the killer doesnt see anyone on BBQ....Yeah but now the killer technically wouldn't be able to say.. I camped because I didn't see anyone with BBQ. So basically if the killer camps with using BBQ, that was a clear decision to camp that person rather then go look for another survivor.
Um. What? I don't get it. How will the killer have less reason to camp now? Isn't it more reason?
If I don't see anyone with BBQ then I do not know where the others are and it's a waste of my time to go patrol about than to just camp and wait for them to come to me. Like how things were before BBQ. With BBQ I don't camp because I know where the others are and I can go to the exact spot to get them. Saving me time and not feeling uncomfortable losing a hooked survivor.
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@Master member
Well, yea...if no one glows when BBQ goes off the entire team has it lol. BBQ basically being useless for 3 hooks.
@Racoon member
Yea like kinda sucks that for me to protect my hooks. I either have to burn one perk slow for hangman or camp the ######### out of that person so I still have hooks left to use.
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Well Aura is basically any perk that makes the survivor glow. So yea Rancor will be affected too.
A hook breaking after a survivor gets rescued from it for 3 minutes? How is that not strong lol. Yea I agree people need to test it but some things you can tell it's broken from the description alone.
The other perks are alright but breakdown is wow...the literal way to counter it is to camp.
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The meta survivor perks are gonna stay. Even when BT got it's "nerf" it just got stronger since it's a never ending second chance for the hooked survivor.
Even with the Aura nerf to BBQ, it still manageable but holy cow...breakdown? Hooks getting broke each time I hook someone?
Assuming I don't camp the ######### out of the survivor and go to hunt others. You are looking at 8 broken hooks in total. Average game about 15 to 20 minutes. Each hook 3 minutes to spawn. So you are at least 5 hooks down. If you really manage to maximise hooking each survivor twice.
That's basically the old sabotage perk back in a different shape and it was broken as hell when it existed back then. If breakdown is going to be as it is....then IG needs a serious buff to balance it out.
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With BBQ being the meta as it is. That is basically 3 hooks or 3 gens if you want to include rancor and bitter murmur. At least with BBQ ok , I still get BPs out of it. With Rancor and bitter. Their main purpose is to locate the survivors. So it's a huge nerf to them. Especially bitter. It's just 3 gens going off and the last 2 you get to see survivors near it.
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The killer perks are not that great to be honest.
But the survivor perks. Holy fking #########..
Breakdown? So they made an instant sabotage that punishes the killer for letting survivors escape? #########? So am I forced to bring along hangman's trick just to counter that? ######### on earth?
Then distortion? So basically my BBQ won't work for 3 hooks....#########....
Then what's the point of BBQ then? The BP farming with it is good but the main point is tracking survivors. Encourages me to leave and go find the others...
Ah whatever...have to see how great the killer's ability is first.
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I don't think he will different personalities to switch to. If it is the case. Then there will definitely be that one meta personality that everyone will go to use and that will get nerfed and then he becomes useless.
I have feeling he will be similar to myers. As in his personalities are different tiers with stronger abilities. His face changes as his tier increases.
Just 1 more day and we will know.
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That is not chill? Lol. ok.
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What? Doctor is at D? Really? I dominate games with the doctor. He is my main.
He isn't the best for sure but in terms of easiest to use and still getting the job done. He is definitely in the middle.
Wraith in C is just stupid...even with his buff....he is just slightly better than freddy.....
Trapper and cannibal in B? Really? They belong in D or C at best. Cannibal power is a one shot sure...but the slowness of it and the super long animation if you bump into something. His main power play is camping the basement. How is he a B tier?
Trapper....super add on reliant. WIthout it...there goes his traps. Even with the respawn buff....isn't that hard to disable his trap.
Clown belongs in A tier. The 15% slow...that's mad help in ending loops. How many times have I managed to catch up with survivors that were looping by throwing a vial in front of them or forcing them to break a loop because of the gas. He has no speed reduction when using his ability like all other killers.
Tier list should be,
S : Nurse
A : Billy, Spirit, Clown
B: Hag, Shape, huntress
C: Pig, Doctor, trapper, cannibal
Wraith
F: Freddy -
@EnviouSLAY said:
I agree with this; why not have NOED 1 be you can only down 2 survivors, NOED 2 =3, NOED 3 is all. That would have been a better start then just letting every limp dick loser who can't play easily get a free win. Or limit NOED to killer's that don't already have an instadown ability. #TeaBecause it's a hex perk and if the guy is camping one guy as bait. You can easily cleanse the hex away...
You couldn't do that with the original version of NOED and you had to ditch the guy getting camped or you are guaranteed dead.
Surprising you said every limp dick loser who can't play easily....then what is DS? Loop the killer to hell and then free escape? Sounds like limp dick losers too....
Most killers cannot counter looping. Even with mind games if a good survivor vs a good killer. That's a free escape after a long loop. Sounds more bullshit than getting a free one shot ability at the end of the game when the gates are open.
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@Crazewtboy said:
@Malakir said:
So you want to have more grind?
Then let's reverse even survivors perks that go tweaked so everybody have more grind again alright?
....Im good with that. Personally I thought things were balanced before all the perk changes. Now it seems like survivor perks are worse than before (some at least, some are BS for killers I will admit) and the killer perks made you actually work for that extra bous. It made you think about what was more valuable depending on the tier. Now it seems like things are just handed to the killers. Im not saying things should be handed to the survivors. Neither side should be handed a victory.
The reason all levels have a one shot...is because it's a hex perk...and with how ######### hex totem spawns are....the free hit given is justified. Also it forces survivors not to drag the game. You open the gate, you get out.
In so many games I see survivors hogging at the gate waiting for me to drop by for them to teabag. I go roam around and literally...they can sit there for 10, 15 minutes refusing to leave until I go there. Often I just record the game and report it.
That move is no different from killers blocking basement and holding the game hostage.
If you see the exposed status effect, you jollywell get out and not demand that you be able to troll around the map.
If you get screwed over in the process of trying to get out. Well sucks to be you. Same way a DS saved up till gates open screws over the killer.
I main killer and I don't run NOED personally. It's a wasted perk slot.
Assuming I do what you say and down one person and camp him. The others can easily run over and cleanse the hex and I have no more NOED and I am screwed still.
So it's dumb to ask NOED to be back to how it was. If it should then it should not be a hex perk. Then it's fair to have only level 3 with an instant down but if you think about it...no one ever runs NOED tier 1 and 2 before it was a hex and NOED was super OP back then compared to now.
I could camp the unlucky guy and down the entire team if they wanted to be stubborn. I can't really do that with a hex NOED.