xEa
xEa
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Basically everything you said can be translated to killer aswell. The only difference is that killer have 60% killrate ballanced by BHVR while survivor have to take the harder route.
I agree that most players (like in any game) are not using high potential of what they could, but for what do we have an MMR system? Weaker players should play against weaker players, and stronger with stronger.
It is more constructive to critzise MMR not working well instead of just saying "Git good noob".
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What Region are you playing on if i may ask?
I honestly dont get it. Neither as killer or survivor i see that many DC's. And with many i actually mean "any".
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669107#Comment_3669107
"Killer can get wins more consistent"
Because the killer is a single person, while the survivors are four, it's more likely for the survivors to have 1-2 bad players that the killer can take advantage of to win. This is also the reason why there aren't as many survivor win streaks, as it's harder to get four people to consistently play 100 matches.
Also, considering that winstreaks happen in the normal queue, there are always survivors going AFK, throwing, not playing at their best ability, etc. I've had survivors DC as soon as they see a Killer they don't like, or if I down someone quickly because I'm running Lethal Pursuer. The casual queue its just not reliable.
I could see the argument if someone pulled a winstreak against only comp Survivors, though, but I haven't seen something like that yet.
Playing killer is of course an advantage, since you have to only rely on yourself. Survivors may all have different goals, playstyles and skill. That is a very likely reason why killers can have massiv winstreaks. I never said anything else.
My issue is, that we use this same argument all the time - in both directions. When the killer is winning: The survivors are 4 times more likely to do a mistake. And when the killer is loosing: The survivors are so powerful, because their mistakes are so forgiving since they are 4 people and can correct themselves.
It is the one or the other.
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Not hyped at all after that PTB.
The map looked cool but feels way to big. The perks are pretty bad overall. Possible Huntress and Hag buff are the biggest joke ever and the new killer is not really blowing me away either. For me, another disapointment after the promising Teaser.
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668906#Comment_3668906
Hens made a video about it, he and his friends did 200 escapes in a row. Then there are a lot of people who even post solo Q winstreaks of 50-100 escapes
Can you show me a recent 50-100 solo queue escape streak video?
The 200 wins was done by the best team in the world, and they had very soft ruleset with 3 people out. Killer winstreak are usually 4K and some even prefere 4K before last gen pops. And 200 wins is for killer not much. Even Pig and Myers streaks close to that number.
Is winstreak telling the full story of ballance? No, that would go to far, but it is an indicator that killer can get wins more consistent.
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@Caiman said:
I wish both sides would stop using the top 5% of players to justify nerfing the other 95%.
Why? When survivor come up with anything else apart from that, it is litteraly always "But we can not ballance the game for weak players".
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@PreorderBonus said:
A comp player dominating the regular queue scene? to be expected honestly, its pretty common in asymms
Where is the comp survivor or the comp team who does that?
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@Pulsar said:
I'd still like to see Overcharge's skill check while running be swapped to normal skill checks and have Overcharge's skill check be an instant fail.
Yep, we already talked about that. Thats the super simple solution to an issue that should be long gone since years.
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@Crowman said:
The solution is survivors do gens while someone is being chased. Someone being tunneled out at 5 gens is the fault of the survivors, because it's already possible for 2-3 gens to be completed by the end of the first chase.
So it is your opinion that a survivor should get good. Thats the solution?
Thank you.
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That is not really the way to go. It would make more sense to handle hooking bloodpoints like that:
Hooking 1st survivor gives the usual 500 (?) Bloodpoints.
Hooking 2nd survivor without the first a second time gives 750 Bloodpoints.
3rd survivor 1000 Bloodpoints.
4th survivor 1250 Bloodpoints.
But also the way around. Hooking 1st survivor 2nd time without anybody else in between: Only 250 Bloodpoints. Hooking 1st survivor 3 times in a row without anybody in between: 0 Bloodpoints. Also 0 bloodpoints for kill.
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@Hitman2000 said:
U got:
basekit bt
u got anti 3gen cuz most of the suvs are not able to notice in which order u have to do gens
u got OTR
u got DS (which is still strong if u move near a window and go there down on purpose
u got strong maps with pallets over paletts
u got the game/palett city since 3 years without any rework
u got buckle up/for the people
u got deja vu
u got adre
u got the screen that u can see what ur mates are doing
shall i continue?😂
not forget: hook graps are deletet cuz suvs said: its unfair that killer grap me while on my screen it wasnt a grap whereas killers has the same problem on the other side (jits that should have been a grap)
so they took the grabs and its only a disadvantage for the killer
so please dont try to say: suvs got a bad time
Yes please, continue. But before, lets talk about those points you made.
- Basekit BT is great! a needed and strong survivor buff. One of the very view they ever got.
- Anti 3 gen is meaningless. Nobody reaches 8+ regressions on a single gen, but those extra 2,5% on a kick actually matters. Not even mentioning the anti gen tap.
- OTR is pretty useless, thanks to the amazing Basekit BT! Because of that, nobody really runs it.
- DS is simply not that great, thats why it will most likely be buffed.
- REally? Pallets over pallets, ha? The average i counted so far is 12-13. And from those we can ignore a good 20-25% of it since they are not even playable.
- The game is a map with many pallets. But it is also an indoor map with 2 layers. Both favours killer. Game is one of the dealiest maps in DBD. NL ty.
- Buckle up / For the people is a bullshit combo that needs to be nerfed. I agree with you.
- Deja vu cuts off 5 seconds on repairing a full generator. Thats not exactly a lot. Compare it with Pain Wes which simply shreds 30 Seconds of a gen with a single hit. Even if i do all 5 generators , Deja vu hardly even counters that one single PR hit. Its that weak.
- Adre. Good perk but not more.
- Hook grabs? We are really talking about hook grabs? How about Endgame colaps or closing hatch? Thats a million times better then freekin hook grabs LOL. But okay.
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@Xernoton said:
Hillbilly, my beloved. I've never had more fun running around with a chainsaw.
I hope your job is lumberjack or is there something you wanna tell us?
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The music and the sound overall.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668296#Comment_3668296
the pallets all connect into each other is my point and killer has no way to shorten the chase because pallet design is safe.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DKXWXMBQQA58/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K7DER69LRQOU/image.png
The tractor is rng component to the map. I am sure the map can spawn a cowtree on top side which connects shack. 1, 11 and 12 has no resources because there is breakable wall window in the house in that direction.
They are connected? In what way? 2x2 pallets are connected with each other, and the last screenshot is the woodplank loop into a Pallet gym lol. And on the other side, we have a dead middle, a dead main, a dead top mid side and a dead 7, 8, 9. And the killer has not even done anything.
If this seed (it is for that map actually not that bad, i have seen more killer friendly Thompson seeds) is in the killers mind survivor sided, then this explains a lot.
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@DBD78 said:
I've seen streamers that don't tunnel so "everyone" is 100% exaggeration lol. Not a good start lying in the topic.
They dont lie but of course it is totally exaggerated. But it is true that tunneling is way more common these days then it used to be.
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Completly agree.
My suggestion: Add more pallets, playable loops and more bushes to hide, but also add a 2nd objective. I am down for rounds that last 2-3 minutes longer.
But that wont happen, since killer mains will only read "more pallets", stop their and feel already offended.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668051#Comment_3668051
the entire map is big giant connected loop is why. most of the pallet are low mindgame, no mindgame pallets.
I am going use @AMGC map to showcase what i mean.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KBGOIZWOZ11W/image.png
you can follow red line and go from pallet to pallet to pallet. Shack gen is undefendable from killer POV because look at travel distance between shack gen and top-left gen. You can say that killer has 4 gens on the map instead of 5 gens. poor gen spread, somewhat big map. uninteresting loop chaining from killer POV.
Alright, i already know how this will look but i checked it anyway.
The entire middle, the by far most important part of the game is dead, beside 1 tent filler that is not even worth mentioning and not playable.
Lets go through your route.
Shack to Harvester. Harvester is nerfed now (a good thing for killer!)
From Harvester to 9 oclock. The pallet is a tent filler in the corner and the loop is a TL.
Right after TL we come to 10 and 11. A decent pallet with a good Gym. Unfortunatly you.....
are conntected to a big pile of nothing that spans across entire 11 12 and even close to 1.
1, 2 have 2 pallets.
The pallet you see there is the one on the picture above. At least we have a good gym there. A very VERY fortunate side here.
A bad filler with a pallet gym at 4 and 5. Right is a pile of nothing followed by shack.
9 pallets. 3 of them super weak and not even worth mentioning since they are not playable.
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@WolfyWood said:
Would be fine but killer basekit is so strong that you don't give up anything to run four slowdowns.
Still think Eruption meta was better at this point. Was way more extreme but at least survivors had a ton of broken stuff too + no maps were gutted yet.
This and bad maps. Why would i run a chase oriented build on most killers when i am confronted at the very worst scenario with 9 pallets, which are often times super unsafe? Do i really need Spirit Fury + Enduring? Or STBFL anymore?
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667165#Comment_3667165
Yeah, it's true, tunneling is strong, same should be reward for spreading hook, if we want something to be changed.
I read your post before, i have some problems with your suggestion tbh. Overall, i don't think reward for spreading hooks should be related with gen speed. Doing gens is boring and as a person who did 6k+ gens i just can't accept gens last any longer. I think, majority of community agree with this. But even besides it, i have some problems with your suggestion.
1) This obligates killer to find all the survivors in order, and ignore all other survivors while he searches for "missing link", otherwise he will be punished. It's core issue, because it's nearly impossible. Sometimes i take 3 aura perks and just can't find one survivor whole game. For this suggestion we need completely delete stealth from the game and give to killer few aura perks basekit. I don't think anyone will be happy with it and it's nearly impossible with lockers in the game.
2) Even with no stealth in a game and some aura perks basekit 20% penalty is just compensation for killer's time to find all survivors one by one, there is no reward at all. One thing just neutralizes other.
3) Killer will punished with extra 5% to gens speed even after 4 unic hooks? What is the point of spreading them then?
4) I think that your suggestion will somehow okish on lowest MMR, where game is killer sided, but high MMR killers will be literally unplayable. There is no reward for spreading hooks as such, but a lot of punishment. In high MMR killer (it's better to say "against good survivors", since mmr is a pretty bad) should tunnel just to have a chance to win, and it's not even a guarented win and pretty risky. With your suggestion there will be literally no chance to win a game against strong survivors.
Look, there is a match i had with friends few hours ago. Random was tunneled out on 3 gens and we did 3 mans out without any other hooks at all.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OEO6824MKIDF/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EUNKDDI7GI9W/image.png
I already discussed a lot reward for spreading hooks in my most, there are some of my suggestions.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635648#Comment_3635648
I read your post before, i have some problems with your suggestion tbh. Overall, i don't think reward for spreading hooks should be related with gen speed. Doing gens is boring and as a person who did 6k+ gens i just can't accept gens last any longer. I think, majority of community agree with this. But even besides it, i have some problems with your suggestion.
Gens would not be effected that much, just ballanced out. Survivors would do gens the same amount of time as they do it right now. Gens are just going slower in early game, but faster in late game.
1) This obligates killer to find all the survivors in order, and ignore all other survivors while he searches for "missing link", otherwise he will be punished. It's core issue, because it's nearly impossible. Sometimes i take 3 aura perks and just can't find one survivor whole game. For this suggestion we need completely delete stealth from the game and give to killer few aura perks basekit. I don't think anyone will be happy with it and it's nearly impossible with lockers in the game.
I get what you mean, but finding a survivor the second time is still not a bad thing for the system. Generators would simply be at the normal level or a slight benefit for survivors. Killing a survivor (lets say you can somehow only find this one survivor which is extremly rare) would then give survivors a boost. But killer already got one person out. Survivor suffered from slower genspeed anyway in early game. Its totally fair. Both have still decent winning chances, no matter how the killer decided to play the round. Thats why i like the idea.
2) Even with no stealth in a game and some aura perks basekit 20% penalty is just compensation for killer's time to find all survivors one by one, there is no reward at all. One thing just neutralizes other.
Basically the same as i said after 1). The killer is not forced to run any aura perks. They can still play as they want.Tunnel? Okay, do it, no problem. Killer will get someone out early on, but survivor will get faster gen speed quicker in the match. Tunnel by accident? Same story in green. Go for hooking everyone twice before killing off (no matter if by purpose or not) ? Great, you had the benefit as a killer to not loose all 5 gens due to that, and survivor had the benefit to play as 4 people much longer. Perfect trade.
3) Killer will punished with extra 5% to gens speed even after 4 unic hooks? What is the point of spreading them then?
They dont. When the killer hooks 4 different survivors, the genspeed would still have the penalty. (Also keep in mind that those numbers are not final. They are used to showcase the idea. If it is +5% or 0% or +10% is not relevant at that point - thats then ballance finetuning). Only stage 2 on a survivor would remove the repairspeed penalty.
4) I think that your suggestion will somehow okish on lowest MMR, where game is killer sided, but high MMR killers will be literally unplayable. There is no reward for spreading hooks as such, but a lot of punishment. In high MMR killer (it's better to say "against good survivors", since mmr is a pretty bad) should tunnel just to have a chance to win, and it's not even a guarented win and pretty risky. With your suggestion there will be literally no chance to win a game against strong survivors.
Every strategy is good with this system, and no strategy is overpowered (with MAYBe one exception of slugging, but this would probably force a anti slug meta by default). You can basically choose. Again, you can still tunnel, but you loose your adventage of slower repairspeed very early on. And when you tunnel - well, you had until stage 2 still slower gens. And when you kill one off, it gets evened out now. Killer had early game benefit, survivor have late game benefit while being in a difficult position.
About your points:
I like the Grim benefit in theory, BUT (of course there has to be a but :D) this is very hard to balllance. What would the survivors get in return? This is just a killer buff with no downside really.
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How on earth is this map Survivor sided? It comes with 8-10 pallets, a dead middle, a mediocre main building and the only good spot for survivor is shack. Even cowtree is a deathtrap, since all you have is... well cowtree. When this pallet is droped, good luck if you have a generator in that erea.
If Thompson house is a survior map, what is then a killer sided map? 0 pallets wasteland? This map used to be very survivor sided, but thats a thing from the past.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667326#Comment_3667326
We shouldn't make balance decisions around average level players, if we do, then that means that nurse needs massive buffs.
Do you think we should balance around average players or the top level?
I post this video frequently, but its definitely the highest level players. It makes sense. Here is a youtube video that describes exactly what i'm talking about, they are talking about team fortress, but the point still is extremely relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=205s
In our case, we are talking about this OP structure right? So, if they made it so such a structure/setup never spawned (I.E. nerfed it) does it hurt low level survivors? No, because low level survivors aren't abusing this type of thing to begin with, it won't impact them even a little bit. But it will make a big difference in high level play.
I get what you mean, and like i said before, the RNG in DBD is pretty wild. Not as crazy as it used to be, but still crazy anough to go crazy sometimes ;)
Should a setup like you encountered be the norm? No, not at all, but it should exist in my opinion. Extremly rare tho, but nevertheless a possibility. If the game would not have RNG layouts, i am pretty sure, it would not be as exciting as it is.
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Bugs: The Knight is like a Hydra. They cut off one bug just to spawn two new ones.
Gameplay Killer: Meh, not my cup of tea. Place Guard, survivor leaves loop, Knight cuts them off. Repeate. But hey, everybody has a different taste.
Gameplay Survivor: Does that sound like fun what i discribed above?
How powerful: Mid. Power has some cooldown and when you fail to place guard on top of survivor, it will cost you. Ah and before i forget: You will run a specific brown addon every single game. Wont take you much time to figure out which one i am talking about.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667203#Comment_3667203
We're long past that point. This game has become competitive and you can't just implement such a change and expect the player base to deal with it. This will not happen.
Is it really? The grand scale of the game is a non cometetive environment, which is probably roughly 80% of the playerbase. We should not forget that we mostly represantate fans who have thousends of hours and are around since many years. The average player has nowhere near that experience nore passion.
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@Yatol said:
I am super grand master Diamond, shut your mouth you peon, I have talent of ultra super tournament league and would squash any professional players with my mere existence, I regularly participate in secret events funded by the secret society filled with players who from their birth where genetically designed to be best this game ever seen. Mods are currently discussing whether or not to make my life a bannable offense, the balance is targeting me to stop me from my unstoppable rampage on this game, DO NOT QUESTION MY CREDENTIALS because I eat noobs like you for breakfast.
I feel offended.
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@Chaosrider said:
It happens the same as before: killers will tunnel through DS. Thats what happens if you try to bandaid fix bad gamedesign with perks.
Yes, but they will loose more often. What do you think about the rest of my posting?
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@fussy said:
I just wish they make some basekit rewards for spreading hooks, so killers actually be more interested in this than in tunneling. Also anti-tunnel should not work in offensive way. My biggest problem with old DS is that i was punished if i was tunneling and if i wasn't at all.
The issue with that is, that there is no benefit greater then the close to certaint victory which provides tunneling.
I came up with an idea recently that gens have early game penalty on repairing, but this penalty is lost as soon as the first survivor reaches stage 2. And once one survivor is killed, survivors can repair gens even faster then usually. A ballance adjustment without any bandaids, and the perfect basekit reward for spreading hooks.
Thats the post
@xEa said:
Hello
I keep it quick and simple, but i like the idea so i thought i will share it with the community. Here we go.
It is safe to say, that the most complains and possible the biggest issues this game overall has are the two following:
- Gen rush
- Tunneling
Sure, other things like Skull Merchant, bad map design, inballanced perks, annoying killer powers like Skull Merchant's and Skull Merchant are also things that need to be adressed. But gameplay wise, those two are in general the biggestes issues.
The issue with both of them:
Survivors gen rush, because killer tunnel, and killer tunnel because survivors gen rush. These are the optimal strategies and they go hand in hand and are entangled in a vicious circle.
Some argue, that killers or survivors need a better incetive to let go of their most optimal strategy. But there is no way to do so, since both sides reaching already for the best possible incetive: Winning the game. Bloodpoints are not so meaningfull for most, pip is a thing from the past and following a "rulebook" is rediculous to many.
Others say, killers or survivor need to be punished, and while i agree that punishment is in that case way more effective then creating better incetives (its hardly possible as i said), it leaves a very sour taste.
I thought about if there is a way to fix the issues without punishing nore creating incentives without completly puting the game upside down.
The (super simple) idea:
(numbers are not carved in stone, they are there for showcasing the idea)
At the start of the trial, survivors repair speed is 80%. This stays that way, until someone gets hooked a second time. At that point, repairspeed increases to 105%. Once the first survivor dies, repair speed increases to 125%.
The first hook stage timer is increased by 20 seconds (nono to early camping)
Thats it.
Benefits for this way:
There is no more early game gen rush because its not possible.
There would not be tunneling killer, because they would loose the game if they dont pressure gens early and give survivors the repair boost.
Rounds would be way more even and more ballanced all around. Survivors are not too overpowered in the early and killers are not too overpowered in the late game
Killer wont have to worrie to much that gens are flying. They can go out of there way and actually spread hooks. In fact, it would be way more optimal then tunneling a survivor.
Share your thoughts please. And if you find logic issues or even aspects to improve, share them aswell.
Kind regards
Maybe you let me know what you think about it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Only a quick reply got a lot on but honestly in my opinion if DS is 5 seconds the following will happen.
Killers who hard tunnel will hit off hook thats bt out the way, then they'll down then they'll eat DS, then they'll still tunnel the survivor out, if they can use DS after every hook (not in end game obviously) then it would probably have a much bigger impact. But honestly if its just back at 5 seconds while it will help it won't stop the vast majority of players who tunnel at 5 gens they'll probably just get less kills than before.
Maybe you are correct, that many will still keep tunneling, but i am sure, a good portion of killers wont.
But lets assume everybody keeps tunneling - then DS will be a staple perk, runned by almost everyone on mid/high MMR. Compared to now, only 6% use that perk, so its easy to get kills. And even killer gets hit by it, 3 seconds (its actually less then 2 seconds) is not often time enough to make it to the next structure. With 5 seconds, it certainly is.
My point is, and you said it yourself, that killers will get less kills. And this might lead to even more killer buffs in the future, rendering maps even more useless for survivors (or even less playable so to say).
My biggest concerne is that Devs will do the Clow mistake years later again - but reversed. Instead of making loops weaker, they came up with a killer who can render loops useless. Now they might bring DS back and realize killer wont get enough kills for their silly 60% killrate philosphy, therefore making maps even more killer friendly.
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@Reinami said:
These are the types of structures and setups that i'm talking about when i say that we need to nerf survivors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DmhXUUrMYU
This type of setup should never spawn under any circumstances. This team i was playing against was pretty bad, and one of them pretty much gave up as soon as they saw i was legion (as usual), which is why the match ended up working in my favor.
But during the match i saw this setup. This setup means that any good survivor can render this entire half of the map impossible for me to ever down them. You can't even entity block this setup because it is just too strong.
If we nerf these kinds of structures and/or prevent them from ever spawning this way, you won't be hurting your low mmr megheads. You will only be nerfing the top tier survivors who are able to exploit such a setup to its fullest potential.
This is really a very strong tile combo but we dont see the rest of the map. Usually, Sanctum of Wrath is not exactly filled with connected loops or even a decent amount of pallets. Its a pretty weak survivor map. On top of that, it is also a strong 3 or even 4 gen map.
There are strong loops in the game (rare) and there are weak loops in the game (very common). I think it is fine if once in a while a really good structure for survivors pops up. I am on board with you that RNG is wild in DBD, but usually in favour of killer nowadays tbh.
PS. I know this is not the point, but you destroyed them pretty easily it seems. So i guess the map overall was not that good.
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@Rulebreaker said:
mate, you can literally switch your entire loadout as survivor in a second by switching characters...
It is plain and simple the correct and logical respond, yet it feels like a roast. 😂
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@satx3241 said:
is other survivors. Period. Especially in solo queue.
I know playing survivor is supposed to be a team thing, but anyone that has played this game for very long as a survivor knows that isn't happening unless you go in with a 4 man SWF. The amount of survivors that screw over the rest of the team (either intentionally or through ignorance) is far too high. There is a good chance you are going to be paired with at least one (or more) of these type survivors in every match.
It's the reason, even as a survivor main, I can't ever bring myself to say a particular killer, killer power, or killer perk is OP on these forums. The most OP power every single killer has is stupid, lazy, and selfish survivors. The percentage of matches where I get killed due to the play of other survivors is a significantly larger percentage than the percentage I am killed due to the skill of the killer.
I'm not knocking killers when I say that. I play against some very skilled killers. I'm just saying there are a lot of matches where killers don't need hardly any skill because survivors willingly hand them easy kills with the way they play.
DBD is a multiplay game, and therefore, its by nature always the fault of other people.
Or Elo Hell. Dont forget about Elo Hell.
PS. I am super glad we cant see MMR. If we would, this forum would be full of Elo Hell postings.
PPS. You are not wrong with what you say 😉
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@Rogue11 said:
"I wouldn't have to tunnel if it weren't for Dead Hard,...I mean DS...I mean Circle of Healing...I mean medkits...I mean MFT. Just nerf those and I won't ruin the match for the first person I find. Oh...and I need at least 7 viable slowdown perks. Oh...I mean tunneling is a valid strat. get good loser"
Enough with the "but my incentives" bs. we've given killers enough carrots they should be orange by now. time to break out the stick
We already know that this killer main talk (i am at this point one aswell) is all bullshit. The Lights Out event clearly showed it has nothing to do with perks, fast genspeed or unfair maps or whathever, they simply tunnel because they can - end of the story.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
How is this the most unbearable meta ever when tunneling has always been possible? we don't even have camping anymore. Did you play VS old camper Twins?
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666457#Comment_3666457
From what I can tell, I think OP is saying that tunneling is the most prevalent it's ever been, and that's what they're complaining about.
Put another way, you are correct that tunneling has always been possible, but OP is arguing that killers have never taken advantage of that possibility as much as they do now.
Tunneling was always possible, but DS/Unbreakable made the strategy not as effective as it is today.
On top of that, gens used to be 80 seconds. You either pressure gens or you most likely lost the game due to faster toolboxes, faster genspeed and the already called DS. Tunneling a survivor out took to long in relation of how fast a game could have gone if a killer was focusing on only 1 survivor.
And last but not least, killers were following more likely a moral code. Tunneling was frowned upon back then, now it is common. This is very likely due to role models doing it live on stream. A very talented DBD streamer who used to play in a more friendly way in the past is now a hard core tunneler. Especially since MMR is in play.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666240#Comment_3666240
Are you tripping? It's clearly yellow
Now that you mention it...
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Blue.
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Survivor: Claudette
Killer: Nea
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665087#Comment_3665087
We must face different survivors. I´ve seen survivors happily follow the trapper around the map, to disarm his traps.
Ok, let me phrase it differently. The most hated killer is the one with the highest kill rate. While Skull Merchant isn´t really that strong to begin with. At least not compared to Blight.
What has this to do if people like the trapper or not? Its a strategy against Trapper. When i play against the Trapper or Hag, i might do that aswell, depending on how the round goes. Do i like the Trapper now? No, he is on the lower end of fun killers for me. Same with Hag.
You are not phrasing it differently - you are changing your argument.
Skull Merchant is freakin annoying to play against. And it has nothing to do that she is overpowered. You are around here since a long time and rading/posting frequently, so i doubt you are not aware why Skull Merchant has such a high winrate and what the issue with her is.
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Yes, take a break. Mine lasted for 2 years.
Or to say it with the wise words of Mr Cote: Play Civilization.
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Recently i dont see it that often in my games anymore.
Of course that does not change the fact that it is a broken combo. Needs a change, no discussion.
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@Hermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665207#Comment_3665207
Really know? You really think the number of farming or afk killers is higher than the number of matches in which a survivor gives up on first hook 30 seconds into the game - which is basically equal to a DC?
No, but the sum of all the points i mentioned might be. We dont know how often survivors escape through hatch, how often killer stay afk or farm and especially, we dont know how often survivors dc in an already lost game. Like i said, speculation.
From my personal experience both killer and survivor, there are not many if any DC's or Hook suicides, unless it is Skull Merchant so i think it is quite an inflated topic that is at the very most in the low one digit numbers.
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@Hermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665204#Comment_3665204
What about the second part of my post?
That the real escape rates are different? Speculation.
Stats also dont count DC's on survivor part (also survivor losses, but they are nullified), they do count hatch escapes while technically it should be a 4K, they do count farming or afk killer, they do count friendly killer giving hatch or free escapes.
It is quite possible that escape rates are even lower.
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@Hermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665137#Comment_3665137
If you are bringing up the recent stats, please keep in mind, stats are almost where the devs want them to be. And they are including games in which the first survivor gives up on their first hook. So the real escape rate in games, in which nobody is throwing a tantrum for whatever obscure reason, is much higher.
Just because devs want them to be that way, does mean it is the correct approach. BHVR is not exactly famous for excellent ballance decision making.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665175#Comment_3665175
Do you really blame my teammates who gave up in my last match? 4,948 hour Blight running Pain Res, UW, Corrupt, and Deadlock. Like what are we supposed to do against that?
Be thankful. He could have just used Grim Embrace instead of Deadlock, which makes the game even less winable.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665116#Comment_3665116
LMAO I watched that video I didn't know he was that bad at versing her.
He sounds mad during the entire video, like I just match against him and wswswsws'ed him on the ground after getting scan teched into next century.
Yea nah that video is engagement bait considering he goes back on his points many times and he just wants to hop on the bandwagon. Absolutely nothing of substance in that considering he doesn't even bring crouching drones as a point and thinks disabling drones isnt counterplay.
Have you tried crouching the drone.
The reason why crouching the drone is not mentioned as counterplay is because it is not counterplay, its loosing distance. Loops are nowadays designed that you have to play it close to perfect to not get hit.
Geting stuck on a tile for 0,2 seconds or crouching for that time (its longer then that, especially when you go with it clockwise) is a hit or down for the killer.
Leaving a loop and then crouching the scan is the same story. Distance has to be timed usually (against M1 killer) perfectly. We are not in 2016 anymore where you get every 8 meter a playable pallet. You can not affort any shenanigans during chase anymore. Especially on a killer that just gained haste.
Crouching only works on certaint tiles, on McMillian for example (long junk tile comes to mind), but the majority of structures is not.. "crouchable".
Yes, i tried it out. Playing a lot of 1v1s, and also against some of the best SM in the world. Said that, chating with them on how to avoid hits is basically the same answre: You dont.
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@LeGranEmi said:
I think the murderer should have 5 perks
I am not referring to a 5 maiden or pop type perk, but rather the fifth perk is exclusively used for hexes, so at least the survis have a secondary objective which is to search for the totem in all games and it would also give better use to the hexes that are screwed in the current meta
Lets double the amount of pallets, and you get my vote.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
The only issues with versing her is the vital targeting processor add on. If you hate the hindered chances are you hate that add on giving you too much of it.
It's physically impossible to 3 gen anymore.
Besides the undetectable (which is only 8s), she has to earn all of her status effects through scans. People enjoyed old chase merchant running geo readout and strobes, I didn't see anyone complaining those add ons "gave her too many status effects (🤓)".
Honestly I think she's in the best spot she's ever been in, and despite the hindered lasting a bit too long I think she's one of the better designed killers in the game rn.
Maybe when people get good and hop off the sm hate bandwagon they can finally have fun against her and not give me free bloodpoints by giving up at 5 gens.
It has nothing to do with get good. It has only to do with the lack of possible skill expression and frustrating mechanics like random drone hits.
Where is the skill expression on the survivor side against the drones? Survivors get hindered and she gets faster, rendering all loops deadly.
Where is the skill expression on Terror radius reading when she can have without any effort 8 seconds complete stealth (not even Ghostface has comeplete stealth, you can still hear him in close proximity).
Where is the skill expression on scanning drones? While she is faster and you get hindered, you have to crouch or stop during chase. Thats a certaint hit if she is not missplaying.
Why do we not know when drones are reactivating?
Why is it not possible to destroy a drone? Disabeling is not helping at all, they will reactivate right in time when you run by it next time.
This list could be near endless, but i leave, one more time, this accurate and still true video for a more detailed explantion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOliDIQxQlE&t= -
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665087#Comment_3665087
Why are they too strong? What is the optimal power level in your opinion? I'm curious.
Those are very good questions and both not easy to answer.
Billy is an almost perfect killer in my opinion. Skill expresson on both sides - and all he needs are two things. A little nerf on the missed cooldown (basekit) and an even smaller nerf on overdrive speed. It is so fast that even mediocre ping on either side is enough to no be able to juke it.
Blight is even harder to answer, but the zoning potential is in my opinion a little bit to good. Rush token recharg should be a tiny bit slower, on all charges maybe 0,5 seconds. A few addons are still questionable. Hug tec is a hot take, and one reason i like skill expresson on blight a lot, but it is probably to powerful. On the other hand, i would actually miss it.
Wesker is close to perfect in terms of power level, but some techs are simply to good and realisticly nothing you can do in certaint spots, especially when you are unaware how good this Wesker actually is. So to answer this question aswell: Optimal power level for me personally is A and B tier killer like Demogorgon, Huntress and Wesker with small changes on his techs.
On the other Hand, what means power level in terms of fun? I would rather face a cracked Blight 10 times in a row then one single bad Skull Merchant.
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From about 20 people (top tier player to beginner) i used to play with, there is maybe a handful left. And all leaving without exception have the same reason: Killer is overpowered. The lower skilled players hate loosing constantly, and the high tier players would rather play a game that is a fair 50/50.
I have two special friends who usually dont even care what i play, all matters to them is to simply play something together with me... with one exception... Dead by Daylight. And every time i bring them somehow back to the game, it always ends after a few rounds.
My "come on guys, its not that bad, we will have fun" is at this point a running joke, because we actually know how it turns out eventually: IT IS EVEN WORSE. 😂
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664546#Comment_3664546
They are beloved? Blight, that gets threads how he still hasn´t received a nerf, after every single patch? Wesker, who gets constant complaints about being boring to play against. When he just makes use of perks that capitalize on his big terror radius? And don´t get me started on all the hate Huntress received, when the upcoming buff was announced.
And yet, they are beloved by the commuity the most. Just because a killer is strong does not mean survivors cant have fun with the them. Thats the point.
I believe also that Blight is to strong, objectivly speak he simply is without a doubt. But i still love him. Same with Billy. Even Wesker might be a tiny big to powerful, yet he is great fun and intense to play against. And also fair.
The argument survivors like easy wins, is objectivly and subjectivly completly wrong. Look at Freddy or Trapper. Super weak, but not many like playing against them.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664670#Comment_3664670
If you think anything is guaranteed in this game, you haven’t played long enough. And I’ll be frank, I 100% look down on passive aggressive posts like OP’s. The person is essentially trying to mask their rage from losing into something that seems reasonable. I would respect them more if they just said they preferred having broken perks.
Like this one here?
@woundcowboy said:
I’ve been playing this game since 2018 and have close to 5000 hours total. I recently returned after break, and man has the fun been sucked out.
It doesn’t matter if your chases are short. Unless you pick a section of the map to defend right at the beginning, you are going to lose if they decide to do the gens. Then there’s the killers. I tried xeno for the first time and it was an awful experience. A large chunk of its power is controlled by survivors and the tail requires pinpoint precision, meanwhile survivors get to plop down a turret whenever they feel like it. On top of that, a huge amount of loops don’t even let you use the power because they are too high.
This game’s problem is the same that it has always been: survivors have too many resources and second chances, on top of chained tiles and safe pallets. I legitimately don’t understand how anyone says that killer is easy. It was significantly easier when I started playing because even though survivors had major dirt, killer stuff could at least come close to matching it. Now every killer has been neutered to oblivion in the name of survivor fun.
This game needs to be balanced as a 1v4. Individual survivors hold far too much power for most killers to handle. It feels damn near impossible to win with certain killers and rng spawns.
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@Tsulan said:
You know the answer. Whenever survivors "love" a killer, it isn´t because they like going against him. Its because they like winning against him.
Same to you. Please explain why Blight, Huntress and Wesker are among the most beloved killers then.