wydyadoit
wydyadoit
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@inferjus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174711#Comment_1174711
If I run back following my scratchmarks without Iron Will she can hear me. There is no way for survivors to detect where Spirit is when using her ability, but Spirit can hear survivors, so it is complete guessing for survivors what to do to avoid getting hit.
Spirit is worst balanced character in the whole game and should not exist in current state.
"if i run back following my scratchmarks without iron will she can hear me. there is no way for survivors to detect where spirit is when using her ability, but spirit can hear survivors"
first off - the only thing that iron will helps with is grunts of pain. you don't grunt in pain when you're not injured. so why would you use iron will in the first place? People keep bringing this perk up, but it's completely useless. If you're injured you're bleeding. father's glasses makes blood visible. Scratch marks are pretty reliable. Sound isn't reliable. You can't outrun her when she phases. Standing in place is dumb. She's going to hear you fast vault or drop pallets and she can collide with you. Literally trying to play the anti-sound game is committing seppuku against spirit. A spirit player told you how to beat the spirit. That's laughable.
secondly - using a perk as an example to counter a mechanic is literally by definition COUNTERING A MECHANIC.
re-read the very first line of my post.
level 1 killer with blank slate loadout beats a level 1 survivor with a blank slate loadout.Complaining about losing 1v1 to a killer as a survivor is like complaining about not being able to breathe underwater. If you get hurt get healed or heal yourself. outrun her after she uses her ability. Juke her while she's using her ability. rinse and repeat until everyone but you dies or the gates open.
Third -
complaining about a killer hearing you is literally stating that you don't like this game. the entire game is based on sound and sight as it's literally a giant game of hide and seek.
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however, setting aside my annoyance at your poorly thought out reply. allow me to give you some options that could be used to improve your experience as a survivor. Lightweight and mend make a lot of sense. use them.
some other options are quick and quiet, calm spirit, solidarity, poised, dead hard, red herring, diversion (this one is entirely underrated due to all the meme videos), urban evasion, lithe, balanced landing, adrenaline, sprint burst, spine chill. etc.
all of these are good. If your fear is noise then use diversion. why anyone would use iron will against a killer who can track you when you're hurt is beyond me. unless your goal is to be hit then you should never use iron will. even if you absolutely love iron will then just run diversion, mend, iron will, and lightweight.
run backwards and throw your pebble at a window or pallet when the phasing noise happens.
of course all this is assuming you know you're about to play against a spirit.
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@inferjus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1173230#Comment_1173230
Oh, so I need to have perks to be able to counter one certain killer? It's bullsh*t and bad game design.
as someone who studies game design I'll explain most of the core mechanics of this game as far as balancing goes. it's actually really simple. but i'll extrapolate it and explain some finer details since you seem to lack a basic understanding of the game.
level 1 killer with blank slate loadout beats a level 1 survivor with a blank slate loadout. This is fact. the reason this is fact is because the killer will always have an advantage in a 1v1 if the hatch is closed and the doors aren't powered. Killers can't die and there is unlimited time to search. so you're correct when you say you need something to win against a killer.
But just because a 1v1 scenario isn't balanced doesn't mean the game isn't balanced.
This isn't call of duty or hearthstone where both players are playing the same game. asymmetrical versus games are intentionally unbalanced in a 1v1 to punish one side for playing alone. you have other players trying to survive with you.
So the option you have for beating a killer is utilizing numbers in a way that allows you to escape.
and of course this goes without saying, but the game was designed to never have voice chat or survive with friends. So the question of how do I work with someone whom I can't communicate with pops up. And the answer to that question is completely up to the player.
- You can work on generators together,
- one of you can run the killer around in circles,
- you can pick different points of the map and control that area,
- unhooking a survivor doesn't have to be about making sure that player lives. it could just be a way to keep the killer from chasing you.
thinking outside of the box, interpreting what the other survivors are trying to do and then doing something that allows you to escape is how you beat a killer. it takes a hell of a lot more brain cells to play a survivor than it does to play a killer. because a killer only has to worry about "where did they go"? as a survivor you have to keep track of the big picture and every little cog that is or isn't spinning to claw your way to a victory. the other players might decide to make you the sacrificial lamb for example because the killer camps. in that time they may complete 3 generators, find a hatch, destroy a totem, or open a gate. the reality is people try to make this a team based game, but it's not.
you want to avoid dying by using numbers.
- the best way to do that is to hide.
hide from the killer and hide from your allies - the caveat is the other survivors will get pissed if you do this because they know you're trying to win at any cost and many times they'll throw you to the wolves.
- the second option is to learn how to run away.
this skill requires you to utilize the vaulting and pallet system. by default this tactic eventually loses. killers are just faster and you only have so many pallets.
- the 3rd option is to repair generators.
this is a combination of the other 2 and is more team based. you basically play the game straight up. this is what most beginners try to do and they often get caught because if the other players aren't doing gens this method takes forever. SWF players gen rush because it's the only way for everyone to escape and they're already communicating and agreeing to work as a team before the match starts.
no matter what choice you make you have to realize that your choice may not be right for every scenario. if you're playing solo and 3 players are playing together you're more likely to die if you don't help them because they're not going to look favorably towards the odd man out. and if one person sees you hide in a locker then their whole party might think you're a left behind bill instead of a borrowed time bill. however, in a 4 man random game you might be better off hiding and waiting for the hatch while snagging a few objective points here and there.
and that's really all there is to the base game. do you need perks to beat a killer? no. if the killer doesn't have perks you can still win a 4v1 game even with the killer being powerful.
the perks are another layer of strategy just like items. perks are designed to change up game mechanics in order to reduce predictability. most perks are time extensions or reductions. some are vision enhancements. some are sound reductions. some are movement speed enhancements. because at the end of the day all you have as a survivor is movement speed, sight and sound, and a bunch of 0 to 100 bars that can be filled or emptied. all movement speed in the game is based on the survivor base movement speed.
- for the average killer you need higher than a 15% increase to outrun a killer who isn't using their ability to sprint or in bloodlust. effectively making running pointless if you can't break chase or if you're using exhaustion perks. these are only good against slower killers on a reliable connection.
- if you're not crouching, you can be seen across the map, but the average distance that a killer can see you is relative to the terrain on the map. the tree map for example has a much shorter distance than he suburb maps because there aren't any obstacles to block being seen around the boarder of the map or the roadway in the center. with that in mind vision range is based on the map. on complex low visibility maps it would be beneficial to have aura reading perks, but there's no way to tell before joining a match what map will be chosen. killers are typically large and colorful so they're easy to spot.
- sound is all about how good the killer's hearing is, but sound notifications are either on or off. so sound is pretty pointless unless it mutes it completely. in the case of terror radius, it's best to not rely on it now with all the perks to distort or change it until you've discerned who the killer is.
- 0-100 bars should be your primary focus. this is how you get points and how you complete things. healing, sabotaging, cleansing, chests, repairing, powering, unhooking, struggling, standing, dying, etc. all of these are 0-100 bars.
that's really all there is to survivor perks. killers are kind of similar except the game is built on the killer's loadout so killers get to activate or deactivate game mechanics as a way to encourage certain gameplay. totems for example.
- movement speed
- action speed
- 0-100 bars
- gameplay elements (totems, regenerating hooks, obsession etc.)
- vision
- sound
in any case killers are pretty straightforward and their perks are designed to counter strategies that are typically used to escape - so running, hiding, and repairing. or they help grant kills faster - exposed.
in the case the case of the spirit - she moves faster, can't die, and can go invisible. so what's your counter to her you ask? her movement speed is slower than 4.6 for starters. so you can in theory just run her around the map if you have a 15% movement speed boost. even a 10% movement speed boost is enough to outrun her in most cases if you can break chase or get her to break a pallet. her ability makes noises when she uses it so you can tell if she's baiting you by standing still. when she's chasing in her ability she's following your scratch marks, blood, and sounds. so if you fast vault she can hear it, see it, and will hit you. when you hear her vanishing noise run back through the scratch marks you just made. heal constantly so you don't drip blood.
if we're talking perks... well sorry to say this, but she doesn't really benefit from perks since her power is so bloated. you're never at risk of her totems unless she's using ruin and trap totems - and ruin isn't really that big of a deal if you aren't lagging. so that's two perks that are basically useless so long as your team isn't a bunch of idiots. rancor, fired up, and so on are for late game which if you get that far then you're going to lose a player if you're not in an swf. so really aura perks, movement speed perks, and her own natural vision are her best friend, but there are counters to those like distortion and lightweight. play with your food just requires you to heal after getting hit. devious doesn't work because of her entire kit trying to misdirect you with her terror radius bbq and chili requires she hook someone first and since she doesn't have an instant down like billy, trapper, or bubba it's inconsequential.
add-ons are way more beneficial to the spirit than perks. and so she gets some pretty powerful add-ons. the add-ons are used to counter the traditional way people avoid spirit's ability. i mentioned a couple, but i'll repeat them. spirit can be countered by listening for the noise when she uses her ability. this is countered by add ons that manipulate the noise. walking slowly away from the scratch marks and double vaulting is countered by wakizashi or father's glasses, using sprint bursts and outrunning her is countered by massive movement speed add ons like the slippers. dead harding the effect or using balanced landing is countered by ability charge and reappearance. and so on.
it's mainly about her add-ons and how you work around those. she's not broken. and it's not bad game design.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
The only thing i can think of is that Dead Hard only extends chases and doesn't end them
So you will have trouble losing somebody who is prone to tunneling in the first place
Personly i don't mind dead hard
dead hard is better used for interrupting the chase on another player. you run towards the killer and "dead hard" through their attack which causes the attack animation cooldown and now the killer has to decide between you or the one they were chasing to begin with.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
I hardly ever run Dead Hard because it's even more unreliable on console than it is on PC, but I've been trying it the last few times I've played. HOLY CRAP am I getting tunneled. It's almost every single game. Is this something that really triggers killers? It's not like I'm not putting on Balanced and using Haddonfield offerings. I've gone from red to one more tunnel away from green because of it. When I play killer and I find someone good at being chased, I tend to leave and see if I can find someone else who isn't as good. It seems that killers are like, "Welp you wasted my time so you're going to die, regardless of everyone else escaping easily." There have been three Doctor games tonight alone where because of pure bad luck on spawn, he makes me scream about six seconds into the game and I don't even see a gen before I'm tunneled into the next lobby.
So, console survivors who run DH - do you experience this too or is tonight just extra spicy for me for some reason?
dead hard is a perk that's meant for irritating the killer by being bold. irritated killers = survivor gets singled out.
if you don't want to be targeted then use stealth perks and survival perks and avoid the bold perks.
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@Cornpopers_Evan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/926333#Comment_926333
To answer your first two, no, it does not prevent anyone from quitting BUT there is a time ban system incoming for people who rage quit. Basically it's a ever increasing amount of time once you rage quit.
then that does discourage rage quitting and that's good enough in my book to be an equivalent of preventing it.
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@Fibijean said:
Dedicated servers will likely come to consoles when the testing phase is over on PC and they're ready to be officially launched on all platforms without needing constant backend tweaks and updates. Like @Cornpopers said, there's no confirmed date yet on when this will be, because testing is still ongoing at the moment.
If it makes you feel any better, the servers come with their own set of problems and are definitely not as great as they might seem for someone still living in peer-to-peer land.
my biggest concerns right now are:
- does it prevent the killer from rage quitting or at least reward me for my efforts
- does it punish survivors that rage quit
- does it allow survivors with crappy internet to realize they have crappy internet
- does it allow killers with crappy internet to realize they have crappy internet
- will it prioritize the BEST connections over the WORST connections?
if it does those things then I don't see how it could be worse.
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@Cornpopers_Evan said:
Consoles have no disclosed time that they'll be getting dedicated servers, just that it will happen eventually, I'm sorry.
thanks for the reply. I wish consoles would stop encouraging in-optimal setups for gaming by including blutooth and wifi functionality.
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sorry. I only accept 1 letter per answer. feel free to resubmit.
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@Boosted_Dwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/925403#Comment_925403
I guess I'm Boosted_Bill now :P
you're free to play whoever you want.
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bill is baaa
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@hysteria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/925297#Comment_925297
i consider it weeb LOL
and the power could be used for another killer concept, i'm not sure if it fits a japanese schoolgirl if they were a killer.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/925285#Comment_925285
spirit is nothing like ayano. other than the outfits ofc, but the powers and the gameplay differ from each other.
she's nothing like ayano? she has a katana... she's a school girl... she kills people...
i mean... if you want to split hairs then I want a hills have eyes character.
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@SunaIIanu said:
BBAB
feng.
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you can already enjoy this theme by playing highschool girl spirit.
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@Yanthegamer558 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924533#Comment_924533
but, i'm a Ace main.
Now i feel sad.
no need to feel sad. you can play whoever you choose
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
CCAA
david
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Kate
@MrsGhostface said:
AAAA
adam
@Waffleyumboy said:
CAAA
this one is a tough one to pin down. But most of it leans towards steve.
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ccaa is david.
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@Lofepramine said:
BABA
Bill.
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Tapp.
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@djlx417 said:
CCAA
David.
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@DeathEscape said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/112885/which-survivor-should-you-main-test
1. All
2. All
3. Yes
4. Yes
All
I mostly play feng,ash,bill and the new yui kimura
How you play depends on the situation concerning the map and the killer.
sorry, but only 1 letter per question will be accepted.
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@Cornpopers_Evan said:
I already have my preferred survivors to play, that being Feng and Yui so I'll use this as a guide to who I prestige next.
- A
- A/B/C/D but mainly A
- A
- A
all a's is adam.
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@AAAAA said:
AABB
Claudette
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playing legion is mostly about having the right perks. the ones they give you to start with are pretty bad.
don't sprint so much. you only need to do so to counter a pallet drop or window vault loop. mend is super easy to cure. When you do use it make sure you focus on getting a single survivor down. people keep trying to talk you into getting mend on all 4 survivors. that's not necessary when there are 4 survivors up all you need to do is down 1 and get rid of him/her as fast as possible.
once you remove 1 player the game becomes easier. just sprint and injure all of the survivors because they'll start sticking together. bait the hook if you have to.
bottom line is blood lust is better than feral frenzy in most situations.
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this is not happening, resillience, no mither, and iron will grants you a bonus equivalent to a permanent common all purpose item with a skill check zone buff add-on that's non-consumable assuming you don't get downed with zero downsides. On top of that you can still bring an additional item with 2 add-ons.
there's a purpose to it.
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@ABannedCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/919833#Comment_919833
What do I need to get Kate?
no gaming this system. sorry. It would influence your choices.
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@PistolTimb said:
The answer is always Ace Visconti
then you're ace visconti
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@ABannedCat said:
BBBB
As an all B player you should try feng
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if you're all A then you're Adam
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917730#Comment_917730
There’s a difference between aim and tracking sound... spirit fundamentally doesn’t do much more than that... and any “mindgames” are so fast to shut down with her speed that you don’t need as great a reaction time to do so.
Huntress takes aim, patience, being in the right place at the right time because she’s slow in order to aim etc. She’s like a nurse that doesn’t get to catch up... Nurse’s downside can be seen as pretty large though compared due to after 1 miss you do have to wait now... but still say huntress is harder... there’s a timing to wind up her hatches etc.
except that's not what your post said you were talking about.
you said ability to use to maximum potential. but i could make that same argument for any killer or survivor. the only thing that differentiates each killer is their power and movement speed.
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i'd argue that huntress is super easy to play at max since there's only learning how to her hatchets. she has metaphorically has only 2 lines in her code. aim and restock. other than that she's 100% an m1 killer.
compared to someone like spirit where her ability has about 8 parts to it.
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if we limit it to specifically those two then... I think it depends on the type of killer and survivors in the match.
If a survivor brings leader, bond, etc. then they're effectively wasting some slots of perks just to avoid you from seeing them as a killer.
a lot of gen rush strats rely on having at least 1 leader and some spare parts. I don't think either perk is great for preventing generator progression, but I'd argue that surveillance can work if you're playing someone like billy, freddy, or nurse who can get to the generator quickly and then win a chase. However, discordance is all you need for locating survivors as ghostface or meyers and by the time they notice you you're already max stalk. In those cases you can get multiple downs easy through slugging and assuming you don't whiff you might even get a 4 piece before they even know what's going on.
with surveillance you won't be able to do anything other than go to the generator and then cry because the lightweight quick and quiet alert meg just out ran you. and your perk.
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@DBDplayersRsaltyAFha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917341#Comment_917341
I read the first and last paragraph , way to long .... this is not my post I merely commented my opinion so don’t act like I lose every game..... your 1st reason gloating .... to you it might be banter but to the community it is being toxic
I was referring to an indeterminate person - not you directly - when referring to someone that is losing constantly.
the reason why you thought I was referring to "you" directly is BECAUSE you didn't read all of my post. I would prefer it if you didn't respond to something you're not going to read. it's the equivalent of cutting someone off mid sentence and is lazy as well as disrespectful and assuming. at that point you're only confusing other readers and derailing the discussion.
here's a wikipedia page that explains "generic you" since you hate reading large posts. To put it simply? I hate using the word "one" to refer to a non-distinct person. I feel like I'm roleplaying a sage from some kind of B reel fight scene movie. "you" is what I grew up with and continue to use since it fulfills both roles adequately.
In English grammar and in particular in casual English, generic, impersonal, or indefinite "you" is the use of the pronoun you to refer to an unspecified person, as opposed to its use as the second person pronoun, which can often be used in the place of "one", the third-person singular personal pronoun, in colloquial speech.as for what I actually said? Here's a hierarchy of toxic behavior.
One who harasses others is more toxic than
One who ruins the game is more toxic than
One who gets upset when they lose is more toxic than
One who gloats about winning.
If you're curious about my reasoning? Most of it is in the comment. For simpler terms?
xbox live defines toxic behavior. As for other communities? they probably do also.
We built Xbox Live for people like you—for players from all walks of life, everywhere in the world, who all want the same thing: a place to play and have fun. We need your help keeping the Xbox online community safe and fun for everyone.I won't apologize for the confusion you've suffered as it was self inflicted. Thank you for your participation in my post, but please commit to either full participation or zero participation as this isn't a tiktok meme for you to write copy pasta on and brag about your lack of caring.
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@DBDplayersRsaltyAFha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/111990/for-all-the-jokes-and-memes
If the survivors get exit gate at end game without fail they will all wait for the killer to come so they can Tbag.... even if the killer goes afk and leaves , survivors will stay to the last second .... why do they do this if it’s not being toxic ?
for a couple of reasons. 1 is to gloat - which is fine. there's nothing wrong with bragging and competitive banter. the problem starts when harassment and abuse are mistaken for competitive banter. another is to squeeze out as much bloodpoints as possible. and another still is to make sure all 4 survivors are in the gate. Of course if you have a killer that's failing so hard they just want to leave and find a new match there is the "abort match" function where you open the gate. The whole point of a match is to earn bloodpoints and the devs have made sure to put in ways for the game to eventually end (assuming you don't get body blocked into a corner and can't move while the killer looks at you menacingly or the survivors don't run off the map and refuse to do gens). if the game works as intended where the killer tries to hit survivors and survivors try to do gens the game will eventually end. regardless of which side wants to squeeze out bloodpoints by dragging the game on.
is it toxic to be greedy? is it toxic to be arrogant? is it toxic to be caring? nah.
those things suck when you're the killer and youre losing, but i'd argue that what is toxic is refusing to play the game or preventing others from playing the game. There's nothing wrong with winning or losing by the rules of the game and as long as behavior keeps fixing bugs that prevent game completion then those things you mentioned about survivors butt dancing in the gate is hardly toxic.
what is toxic is when you get messages back to back to back to back about how much you suck or should end your own life and never play the game again. that's harassment and verbal/written abuse. Losing sucks. Losing constantly sucks even more. That's not the butt dancing. That's not just waiting in the gate.
I'd argue that losing back to back to back and then getting upset at people winning or bragging about their own abilities is more toxic than the person bragging about winning.
but once again this is all contextual. bottom line is if you're losing that much you probably need to read the game guide because there is obviously something wrong with your approach and there's no need to be upset at people waiting for you in the gate or face camping to ensure at least 1 person dies. even if a killer face camps should 3 people run over with the right perks there's nothing the killer can do if he's not prepared. decisive strike, breakdown, borrowed time, deliverance, slippery meat, up the ante, etc. there are tons of perks to prevent face camping success. and in that same vein there are tons to prevent hatch camping, gate baiting, and so on.
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
To sum the dark side of this community up, people have a bully complex on both killer and survivor whether it’s aggressive or passive-aggressive or there’s a trolling to the point that every mechanic has a harm (that makes the game exist) that doesn’t allow the player to necessarily benefit from. Basically a lot of players with a low mental age, takes things too seriously thus strives for blatant imbalances rather than working on their own where they blindly hate people they don’t know/come across.
the bully complex would be a societal issue and not a community issue.
community issues would be things like teamkilling, rage quitting, afking, harassment, boosting, disingenuous developer community relations, swatting, server hijacking, biased board censorship, stalking, impersonation, theft, phishing, modding, botting, trolling, third party advertising, win trading, and so on. things that would relate to a game community. things that cant be directly tied to gameplay or the creation of the game itself would be more societal or political based.
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
DBD is toxic to the core... the community is better at hiding it is the only difference.
On R6S they can atleast make changes to the game without people threatening to boycott it just as an example.
People have invested too much into DBD to give it up but devs hold back.
been here (owned the game) for 3 years. worst thing i've ever had to deal with is someone calling my playstyle cheap or someone quitting early because they got upset. There used to be glitches to make games never ending and so on, but all of those issues get addressed when they come up and as someone above said matches are complete around 15 minutes. you can't insult your opponent through the game other than on pc and interactions are minimal between survivors and killers other than for objective purposes. worst thing people can do to taunt is finger point, butt dance, or hook slap. and to be quite honest that's fine.
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@PistolTimb said:
I mean, bhvr is a small development company. They could potentially create their own engine and fix all the potential issues their game has, but the budget and time this would take are big. Might just be best to give next gen consoles (and pc) more optimization and graphics options.
sure. I get that, but it is stressful knowing that in theory a game like DbD could continue to release content and live for a long time (like league of legends which has lived for over 10 years) but then also know that since it's a console game and not a pc game ALONG with the fact that technically every new iteration could require licensing depending on how the initial contract for paid content was written and agreed to...
as a fan of the initial concept due to the simplicity and ease of access as well as the thematics and quality (because let's be honest - it's not that bad) it pains me to think about what comes next with ps5 and xbox next around the corner.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/910211#Comment_910211
I messaged the killer and asked him why the hell he tunneled me when I wasn’t even on death hook and he told me everything
ok. then that's a community problem. not a challenge problem. you should report them for assisting the killer to whatever platform you were on.
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@Elk said:
On paper it sounds nice and cool, but players would avoid each other and make it hard for the killer to use their ability. I have watch Gold Express with the Geisha. She can kill people, but everyone on there is so suspicious of each other that they don't help each other injured or otherwise. Also SWF let each other know that if its them or not. I think that the idea is really cool, but SWF and suspension would make it hard to have fun. Well...we haven't even tried it to even know all we have is SWF logic.
then take the question at bare minimum logic.
ignoring outside variables do you think it would be fun and enjoyable? IF it could happen do you think you would enjoy it? remember to ignore current gameplay mechanics.
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for me - i have to escape AND i have to have earned at least 1 pip. Winning for me isn't about how many simpletons manage to limp through the doors. what matters to me is did i outlast my opponent and did I do enough to rank up. that's what makes a win in my eyes.
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@BluePharoh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/905293#Comment_905293
Again taking another game into DBD. Secret neighbor has everyone possibly being the killer, not just “oh look there’s another Kate.” VC would destroy this killer, but this killer would destroy Solo queue.
No matter how much you point to secret neighbor having VC, it doesn’t fix that the following will happen:
SWF1: Hey, is that you coming?
SWF2: Nah I’m searching a chest
SWF1: Ok. *runs away*
God forbid it’s a 4 man SWF.
However, Solo queues against this killer would be unbearable. You literally couldn’t work with any other survivor just in case it’s that killer. It’d be so incredibly unfun to face as Solo survivor, and easy to stomp as SWF. Playing this killer would be rolling a die on whether or not you win.
quick question - what makes a killer different from a survivor?
the answer should be obvious, but I'm curious what you think it is.
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@BluePharoh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/905259#Comment_905259
That’s an entirely different game. Stop bringing other games into a discussion about DbD
it might be an entirely different game, but the fact is that voice chat and playing with friends doesn't limit a game's ability to have a doppelganger character.
on top of that? there's an absolute assumption that it wouldn't work just because it hasn't been implemented. just like how freddy has the alarm clocks and pig has her jigsaw boxes there's nothing that can't be adjusted to add in a doppelganger character.
it'd be as simple as having an ability that changes the appearance of a survivor to random and remove auras - since the appearance doesn't matter anyway and auras would give you away. the ability could be called magic mirror. survivors would see their own characters, but other survivors would see something else and it would change randomly over time. voice chat? the game doesn't naturally support it, but now you'd have to be watching every corner. text chat? okay, but how long would it take to read and type out LOOK OUT! THAT'S NOT ME!
then you could add a perk that prevents the status information panels from updating and making everyone think everyone else is okay.
the killer would have an ability button that morphs them - and 2 different loadouts.
The killer would be able to do everything a survivor can do such as hide in lockers, drop pallets, repair generators, cleanse totems, etc and while human would counter detection perks like spine chill and so on.
I don't think this would be hard nor impossible.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VfXn2e7j4@VolantConch1719 said:
It would go a little like this.
SWF 1: Hey, Bob.
SWF 2: Yeah?
SWF 1: Are you the Kate approaching me?
SWF 2: No.
SWF 1: Okay, time to go.
Fact is, the second they realize its the disguise Killer, SWF will completely negate it with simple questions like that.
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@Rie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/905122#Comment_905122
I don't understand a word you're saying. What do I assume? SWF hell even simple pre game chat is a thing in the game as others have already pointed out. And yes killers certainly do have to adhere to the rules dictated by the game itself. And what on earth have Freddy and Pig to do with this? Neither have their power negated by survivors simply talking to each other.
You're assuming that a doppelganger killer couldn't be added because of:
chat, survive with friends, and because the rules that exist in the game currently?
I'd call that a poor argument. mainly because I don't agree with game chat and I don't agree with survive with friends. But okay, let's pretend that those features deserve to be in this game.
secret neighbor has game chat and you can survive with friends. so why is that different? are you trying to tell me that people can't lie?
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/905016#Comment_905016
Wow, that's a long post.
I don't have a problem with the slugging mechanic, slugging isn't wrong, it's a legitimate strat and there are counters for it. I'm not denying these things at all.
I just don't like it when they design killers that excel at unfun game mechanics. Perfect example of this is leatherface. He isn't particularly strong in chases. What he does best is camping and no one enjoys getting camped. It's just a bad design choice in my opinion. Slugging isn't nearly as bad as getting camped but I still think they should avoid designing killers this way.
That being said, I think the Oni is fine right now and I don't really mind going against him.
i would argue that cannibal isn't a camper. I know it's a meme at this point about dungeon camping leatherface, but that's just that. a meme. you can do that with any killer.
leatherface is about and has always been about trying to recreate the fear that you get from having a maniacal chainsaw wielder chasing you down, injure you, and drag you back to his shack. all the while everyone else wanders about aimlessly trying to figure out where you went. bbq and chili reward him for chasing. franklins demise is anti items - and where do items always always always spawn? in chests. the only guaranteed chest is in the basement. and what leads to the basement? a staircase that funnels survivors perfect for a chainsaw dance. this is why "basement camping leatherface" exists. it's not an intended gameplay mechanic, but it is an accepted practice. bottom line is that if you're hiding in the basement it's up to the survivors to figure that out. if you get downed - no one on the map is supposed to know thanks to his knock out perk. it's not a matter of bad gameplay. it's a matter of people being gullible and too heavily reliant on their aura perks. or for lack of a better term - it's punishment for sticking your nose where it don't belong.
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@Rie said:
A killer with a power that can be completely negated by survivors? Hell no, I still have nightmares from the Ghostface ptb.
Just no.
No.
you assume too much. a killer doesn't have to play by the rules. they get an ability. just look at freddy and pig.
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@AhoyWolf said:
Why?
It would be cool and all, but when going against SWF this Killer would be destroyed. Even randoms could tell if you're the Killer, they could just type in the pre-game chat to do something that you will not know. (Like tbag 3 times and then point when you see each other)
@YaiPa said:
Not only is a super old idea that somehow people still wants, not only it would be destroyed by SWF, but for how meta works nowadays, killers do not have time to mess around, they need to end chases quickly.
@YaiPa said:
Not only is a super old idea that somehow people still wants, not only it would be destroyed by SWF, but for how meta works nowadays, killers do not have time to mess around, they need to end chases quickly.
A group of players sneak into their creepy Neighbor's basement. One of them is a Neighbor in disguise. Welcome to Secret Neighbor.so secret neighbor is better than dead by daylight. is that what you're saying?
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@arslaN said:
Playing as him is really fun, probably the most fun I've ever had with any killer but I don't understand why they thought designing a killer with insane slugging potential was a good idea. Nobody enjoys getting constantly getting slugged.
i didn't realize as survivors you were supposed to have fun losing against a killer?
okay maybe that's a bit harsh to put it that way, but the fun of a survivor should be outwitting your killer - not being rewarded with joy and excitement from failure?
and make no mistake - getting hit is a failure. if you're getting hit because you lost the chase then you're a failure for losing the chase? if you get hit because you're body blocking then your teammate is a failure for losing the chase and you're bearing the brunt of their weight.
if you're getting downed and then your ally's lack of awareness causes them to also get downed... well that's just the game punishing greed and lack of awareness is it not?
the concept of slugging - downing everyone then hooking them - is a tactic that rewards the killer for winning chases quickly and punishes altruistic actions by survivors. it's a form of baiting. it grants bloodpoints in brutality and awards malicious points for emblems. It's a literal gameplay mechanic that is designed into the core of what it means to be a killer.
with that in mind i disagree with your assessment that oni should not exist because he can slug people. there are counters to slugging both in strategy and in build. there are counters to counter slugging. there are counters to counter counter slugging and so on.
the fact that players get upset when the killer or survivor plays non-traditional is laughable and can be reduced down to the equivalent of someone blaming their opponent for not playing fair because there was a rule somewhere they'd never heard of. it's honestly just a lack of flexibility on the player's part and a bitterness that this supposed "always works in every scenario" build and strategy they've developed actually doesn't work in all scenarios.
18 killers each with 3 perks a piece and 12 basic perks. If you can do combinations that equates up to 720,720 combinations of perks times 18 different killers and you get a little under 13 million combinations.
there are 22 survivors with 3 perks and 14 additional perks. that means 1,581,580 combinations in sets of 4. since survivors don't have any innate difference the 34.75 million different combinations of kits don't matter because survivors are pretty much all identical once you get past perks. Even so you have 1.5 million combinations of perks.
and these numbers don't equate for add-ons or items.
i'm sorry - but if you can't figure out a build to counter slugging... then either A you're bad or B survivors are focused too hard on rushing generators and running away which makes the entire community of survivors bad as a whole.
If we consider every gameplay mechanic from both sides i think it's fair to say that there are some gaps in the perk system.
to quote a forum post on steam
i tryed to translate it with internet but i still have no idea what does it mean in this game, can anyone please explain it to me?The nurse is a prime example of a character that was designed around slugging and slugging is and was a tactic that is supported by the developers.
But let's just do some gameplay theory for a moment and come up with a build that counters slugging.
no mither, unbreakable, flip-flop, and tenacity.
wow. look at all that hard work i put into coming up with a build that counters slugging.
it's not that it's not fun. it's that people refuse to play this game with a brain. let's say you want to play the game, but don't want to commit 4 perks to anti-slugging. okay. then instead of both no mither and unbreakable just bring unbreakable. or just bring flip flop and tenacity. the choices are endless. bring left behind if you think you can find the hatch while downed.
there are several mechanics in this game. to rule that 1 mechanic is unfun is subjective. even if a large majority of players ruled that slugging is unfun it's an integral part of the game's overall design. it forces choices that otherwise would not be necessary. imagine instead if getting hit 2 times made you automatically teleport to a hook? would that be fun and engaging gameplay? no. imagine if you automatically died if you get hit 5 times instead of getting downed? would that be fun and engaging gameplay? arguably no. at that point it'd be a chase simulator.
part of this problem stems from the fact that the community is afraid of change. especially at higher ranks where killers are monsters and survivors are even more so. all competitive multiplayer games suffer this issue of "how soon is too soon for change" league of legends, rainbow six siege, for honor, rocket league, dota, call of duty, halo, etc. all these games suffer from this controversial, but necessary aspect. high level players and professional streamers get locked into grinding away at a game to become skilled, but how can one become skilled if the game is always changing? flexibility and research are skills that we should promote. If someone wants to make a living trying to be the best they should at least have to put some effort into it. how much effort is debatable.
so to answer your statement of "slugging potential in killer design" it's because it's an integral part of the game. if you don't enjoy it that's fine. personally? i don't enjoy killers with stalk features as a survivor because it makes it impossible for me as a solo player to win when some yeehee is running around trying to make big boi plays for his twitch stream. I also don't enjoy survivors that refuse to be healed because that's annoying as hell. I bring empathy for a reason and people just keep walking around trying to benefit from this is not happening or self care when it's high risk low reward. But they're not about to take those features out either.