wydyadoit
wydyadoit
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@FMG15 said:
I like them but I still cannot understand Legion getting a HUNK skin
The Hunk legion annoyed me when I realized it existed. i personally would have preferred a hunk survivor. i don't think he ever kills re protags as far as i'm aware. i know he's part of the umbrella secret service and shows up a lot as a secret playable character, but he wasn't in operation raccoon city from what i remember. idk. wesker makes sense. even blighted birkin... as much as i hate to admit it, but legion hunk is just weird.
the model looks great though.
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as a survivor i've only played against 1 knight. and the whole... 4 man unit theme caught me off guard because i thought i could stun the assassin with a pallet. nope. they just phase through walls and pallets. i guess they're ghosts?
i need to read up more on his abilities
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Jolt
Eruption
Pain resonance
yeah... no. would rather use jolt. of the three. if i'm forced to use only the two i'd use pain resonance since basement hooks are scourge and basements are easy bait zones with certain builds. i don't have time to kick 7 gens and chase a survivor around for 30 seconds just to make them explode 1 time. would rather focus the area i'm in and if it's a map like meat factory i'll be more effective than with either perk using jolt.
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@JakeTheDohg said:
Yup, just like that
Which one do you feel like is more unfair / too easy to use as killer?
I post this because I mainly play killer, although I also play survivor. But I don't like eruption because a 3 gen becomes unbearable to defend, mainly because of how easy/boring it is. I like PR because at least I feel like I deserve that gen regression (I hate that hooks tend to spawn so randomly, but whatever)
And when I play as survivor man, killers going full COB, Overcharge & Eruption is boring as hell. Doing gens feels even more tedious than ever.
So my question is: what do you guys like to use / play against?
so... i haven't voted yet because i dont use either 🤷🏻♂️ i like brutal strength, fired up, and jolt. call me weird. i'll leave this here so i can come back to this post after testing both perks.
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@scenicpickle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326687#Comment_3326687
ya she seems fine to me too now at least cross map insta downs were pretty yuck especially on small maps
yeah, but i've been saying the same thing about spirit and hillbilly for years. blight, space bubba, onryu, 🤷🏻♂️ it's not going away any time soon.
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@Akumakaji said:
Hello everyone,
well, as the titel says it, I am talking about splitting up on gens, as that is the number one reason why I tunnel. On most of my killers I play more chase oriented and without the dreaded Eruption/CoB combo, and I like the more traditional way of playing DBD, ie chase, down hook, one gen gets done. Chase, down, hook, another gen pops.
But lately its more like the survivors have woken up to the fact, that splitting up is the most effective tactic available, and in itself there is nothing wrong with that, BUT (there is always a but) its putting a lot of pressure on the killer. No matter how well you play, these days multiple gens will just pop in union, in the worst case scenario the first chase will end with 3 gens popping one after the other.
Really, what do you expect the killer to do in such a scenario? Just business as usual? Thats the point were I most likely turn from a casual and fun killer into a tunnel machine and of course it sours the mood, but at this point my regualr options are gone: if I just chase the next survivor, then gen 4 and 5 will pop once the second chase is over. This really irks me, as I don't enjoy tunneling, but I also don't enjoy getting thoroughly stomped and laughed out of the door.
I talked a lot about catch up mechanics and the lack there off in this game. Many players defend this by stating "why should I be punished for playing well?" or even more prevalent "why should THEY be rewarded for playing bad?". And why I can somewhat understand this sentiment, the lack of catchup mechanics means that the losing side will be backed against the wall. And a killer backed against the wall will most likely tunnel and camp.
Players who enjoy camping and tunneling will always do so, no matter the circumstances, but there is a sizable population of killers who actually want to play the game how it was intended, and thats getting harder and harder the better and more coordinated the survivors get.
So, if we can't get a catch up mechanic, can we at least get The Entity to intervene with gens the more are worked on at the same time? I don't know, reduced efficiency when the survivors are working on three gens or maybe even randomly blocking them or more skill checks or random explosions.
And yeah, I know that there are situations like a three gen where you have to split up, where you can't work on one gen, but for the most part its really getting rediculous.
That and DH and Eruption sucking the fun out of the game for the respective other side, but thats its own thing.
it's a math problem.
5 gens x 90 seconds a gen (450) / 4 survivors.
4 survivors left alone on gens can win in 150 seconds. not including perks, items etc.
90(4 gen pops)+40 (4 on gen 5)=130+20(gate switch)=150/60=2.5 minutes
killers have to force chase and bouncing around helps with that. passive damage to gens (ruin) or aoe like jolt help.
survivors have a total of 3x4=12 health states - not including healing or perks.
it takes a lot as a killer
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326652#Comment_3326652
Mandy already said they would never to a complete rework of her because the time it would take to come up with a new power, test it out, put it on the PTB, and then work it out more would be better used elsewhere
as the community think tank i'm sure someone could do most of that work for them right here on the forum - unpaid as a hobby.
i do it all the time because i find it fun to experiment.
a character requires: asset coding power animation gameplay balance model design text changes lore updates audio updates icon updates testing and some other stuff im definitely forgetting and too lazy to type out
meaning someone somewhere has likely already came up with a new nurse power, but behavior doesn't want to actually change nurse because she fulfills a design archetype that they feel is critical to the killer identity.
they probably learned from freddy krueger that it's not worth redesigning killer powers for minor issues (and yes i'm saying the nurse hate is a minor issue) unless there's funding or a potential for future revenue.
i don't mind nurse. she gets rid of the instant blind, god pallet, safe vault, dedicated healer, chase baiter gameplay that so many survivors are building metas around. she instead forces a very different type of play style that in my opinion is healthy to diversify gameplay. 3.8 movement and blink attacks are unique mechanics no other killer has. teleports and fast running or dashes is the closest we've got and zero other killers are slower than survivors.
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@Josey273764747372662 said:
I’ve been playing this game for a while now, but every update I’ve noticed I enjoy it less and less as the DBD takes out/changes things players enjoy or need to play the game. When they first updated the wiggle skill check it had so many bugs it wouldn’t even work and now they’re forcing players to use the new wiggle skill check even though most of them prefer the old one?? Not to mention a lot of the killers especially the new killers are extremely overpowered where the survivors aren’t given much of an advantage and it’s not even fun especially when killers can stand over survivors downed bodies they can still bleed out. The other thing I’ve noticed since the new update is that it takes forever to look for a match even though it doesn’t matter the date or time it will always take at least over 15 minutes to load into a lobby. I play both survivor and killer and I noticed that these changes don’t make it fun to play as the killer or the survivor especially when it’s one-sided even playing as a killer is just boring because of how unfair it is and how most of the new updates like the wiggle skill checks don’t even work so it doesn’t make sense. I’m pretty disappointed and I most likely will stop playing because it’s just not fun
anymore and I know the next update it’s gonna be even more screwed up and I don’t really wanna play if it’s gonna be like this. While I am on the topic of what I don’t enjoy about this game I would like to mention the lack of Leon Kennedy costumes every eye other player has tons and tons of cosmetics but with Leon he has maybe two outfits and the other outfits he has are other characters so I paid money for Leon even though he gets nothing so I don’t know what the heck that’s all about.
i disagree with you. i like the updates. if i had to play trapper and the base 4 survivors on the same 3 maps for 6 years i wouldn't have. 🤷🏻♂️
the graphical overhaul, the new prestige system, the emblem system, the archive tome challenges, and the new game mechanics (hex, obsession, breakable walls, endgame collapse, dedicated servers, crossplay/cross progression, beginner tutorial, swf) have all made the game a lot more enjoyable. though I have mixed feelings about swf.
maybe you weren't here back in 2016 so you're not familiar with what the game used to be, but i can tell you that the game has improved.
as far as the new wiggle mechanic? I prefer it. no more do i have to destroy my controller's analog stick or mash my keyboard to bits trying to do a futile "test your might" challenge against a killer who's probably running iron grasp. Now I can simply press the skill check button as it lines up to prove I'm trying to escape. And it even resets in difficulty when you mess up rather than continuing to become impossible as a way to curb macros designed to metronome tap while still rewarding "skilled" players. as much as i love mortal kombat and occasionally playing test your might minigames i realize there's a level of wear and tear that goes into my peripherals when doing those types of minigames that far outweighs any amount of enjoyment i receive. So having a main gameplay mechanic centered around one seems like a poor choice. not to mention the lack of skill required to macro a "max wiggle" command.
in the US East servers I get 3 minute to 10 minute queues. and honestly that's only if i'm playing during irregular hours. otherwise it's almost instant into the lobby and the main amount of time is spent waiting on people to ready up.
to be fair it might just be low player count in your region, your internet stability/speeds, or your hardware being older. Those things make a difference.
Leon is a licensed character - which means behavior has to negotiate contractual terms with capcom in order to make new content for the character. I, personally, would enjoy having resident evil 6 leon (the older grizzled version), but that would require more negotiations and it would likely take 3rd content pack of about $15 worth of dlc to make it profitable for capcom. unfortunately it's not as simple as slapping more stuff on leon like it is for dbd's original characters. that's something that should be known by now if you've spent any amount of time playing games with guest characters.
to some extent it sounds like you might be jaded or going through burnout as another poster mentioned. if you're not able to enjoy the game then try a new approach or take a break. dbd might not be around forever though since it's an online only game, but league of legends has 160 characters and has been around for almost 20 years. so there's the possibility 🤷🏻♂️
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@HugTheHag said:
I play more survivor because I've met quite a few friends through the game, so now any time I log on there's probably someone to catch up with and play a few survivor games together.
However, I enjoy killer a bit more.
i get that
i play killer primarily because i struggle to make friends through games. i don't like online relationships because they're honestly just not interesting to me. most of the people i used to play games with don't have time to spend grinding as they're working to feed their families. I have more free time because I didn't have children.
i enjoy both, but i prefer killer more. I play survivor to get a better understanding of what works against killers and to learn new strategies from various killer playstyles.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
I also think this is a cool idea, but they'd have to handle it really carefully. Maybe they can consult with some First Nations people in Canada to come up with some gestalt folklore stuff?
yeah. that's also true. United states native tribes are very different from canadian tribes. same with mexico and everything south of latin america. even east and west indigenous tribes were very different in the US. cherokee and mohawk for example. my family lineage comes from cherokees that married into european families to keep from being forced to leave.
i think thunderbird (r6s) is from an indigenous tribe of canada. tbf i would have never known if i didn't read the lore because of the lack of pop culture identifiers she has.
isn't it weird when we think of "cowboys and indians", "samurai", "shaolin monk", "knights", "vikings", "shamans", and such we have a very distinct image that pops into our heads?
even things like gangs and mobs such as yakuza, mafia, the prohibition mobs, bikers, etc.
if i say "cult" - there's a pop culture archetype for that.
i'm not looking for something avante garde though. just a simple character that fits the theme.
and like im not saying the survivor should be wearing ceremonial garbs and stuff. heck it could look like Deb Haaland. She's apparently native. or Jason Mamoa - the dude that played aquaman. and maybe as a cosmetic item you can get the ceremonial garb as a skin if you want it (personally I would love a chief headdress to run around in.)
but the killer HAS to be a moheekan or similar tribe that has suffered. i think it would make for a great backstory and the killer could be like a betrayed peacemaker that died and was reborn from a disturbed burial ground.
Apparently a lot of aggreements that eventually lead to the trail of tears were supposed to draw a line in the sand for european expansion. So i could see a historical fiction representation of a native who was killed by his/her tribe for unintentionally agreeing to bad terms.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325100#Comment_3325100
There's a major difference between challenges that require you to participate in normal gameplay (Complete generators, heal other survivors, heal yourself in COH, get safe rescues, etc.) versus something that the game hard-punishes you for doing. If you are being chased by the killer and you drop from a great height, you are guaranteed to get hit because of the landing stun. If you bring Balanced Landing, it's slightly better, but not by much, since you still take a short stun upon landing.
Either way, this challenges specifically requires you to do a worse job in chases than normal.
the challenge is meant to make you as the player perform acrobatics thematically representative of meg thomas's prowess. so build a better meg?
balanced landing - reduce stun by 75%, reduce volume by 100%, sprint 150% for 3 seconds - causes exhaustion.
lithe, smash hit, and sprint burst give you the same 150% but without the stun reduction.
dead hard lets you take a free hit.
adrenaline heals you when the gates are powered, grants 5 seconds of 150% movement, and can't be disabled by exhausted.
overcome lets you sprint for 2 seconds longer when injured
hope gives you 7% haste after gates are powered.
boon dark theory gives you a 2% haste in 24 meters.
vigil reduces exhaustion cooldown timer by 30%.
if you want to avoid "soft throwing" then why don't you just get it after gates are powered?
you have to fall from higher than 5 meters - which causes 2 seconds of stagger. a killer with 4.6 movement can travel 9.2 meters in 2 seconds. if you use a vault window or a vault ledge where the killer has to also vault you can minimize risk since it takes 1.7 seconds for a killer to vault.
main point is - you're not doing it right.
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@Zerotoxiks said:
After over 300hrs in this game playing a mix of killer and survivor I’m really on the edge of letting this game go.
now don’t get me wrong, a coordinated swf is very powerful but I mostly play solo queue like many others.
the problem is that in solo queue you have no idea what other people are doing, their is no coordination at all. Unless one of the survivors is amazing at looping or the killer is a newbie. You will die 10/10 matches.
playing as a killer for the last couple months I’ve never had a game where I didn’t get less than 3 kills. It’s just so easy to win. I enjoy survivor more because it’s much more challenging, albeit too much.
i think what this game lacked from the beginning was a way to communicate with other survivors. Having a voice chat even if it is just proximity chat would have been critical to this game being able to bring new players in for the long term.
swf can communicate and killers can still succeed? Why punish solo players?
anyway, just needed to voice my opinion. Would love to hear others thoughts.
thanks.
i disagree. but it's okay that you feel that way. since it's an opinion after all. let me share an alternative view.
swf is too powerful. killer is fine. solo survivor is fine
solo play as a survivor seems weak because you're supposed to be weak and scared thematically.
swf takes all of that away because you're being given a ton of resources you wouldn't normally have. teamwork and communication weren't supposed to be part of the game initially and are still no technically part of the game (no voice chat. players have to use discord or party chats)
as a solo player (which is how the game was originally designed) youre meant to have trouble determining what the other survivors are trying to do. that's the intended purpose of aura perks. playing certain characters can also give your teammates an idea of your own playstyle. however, it's likely to be ignored since most players are going to be concerned about the cosmetics aspect (cough cough - jane'strunk and david's washboard). this is why it's so important to run perks like empathy, bond, and kindred - at least one. or dont 🤷🏻♂️
there are also solo survivor builds designed to aboid everyone and everything and just get out through hatch, but the thing about this game is you're not gaining anything from hatch seeker builds. at the end of the day all you really have for progression is bloodpoints, xp, and emblems. tomes in the archives give a fun way to earn them and daily challenges give some quick cash ones.
surviving against a killer isn't mandatory to make progress. so i'm honestly curious how you spend your time in a match if you're not breaking 30-40k in score a match.
-as someone with +700 hours on one of multiple accounts and plays primarily solo.
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@Firellius said:
Even if you do have Balanced Landing, it's a serious risk to take long drops in a chase, making this challenge come too close to 'soft throw the match'.
it's not a "soft throw".
it's a challenge. just like how there are achievements for running 3 perks instead of 4.
by that logic - all challenges should be removed because they're not based on winning. relic hunts, non-meta perk builds, escaping through hatch, be chased by the killer, etc.
all of those are soft throws. should be deleted.
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@Arbmos1998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323233#Comment_3323233
Sad thing is I don't even use a webcam. The only reason they noticed what I look like is because they went further into finding my Instagram. I commonly dye my hair different colours, recent hobby i've gotten into doing so I upload results on my Insta. As well I go out a lot wherther it be parties, nightclubs, events etc so again theres a lot of photos for those too.
yeah - not trying to dismiss your frustration and victim blame, but this will definitely sound like that. so apologies in advance with this lecture/advice that's unsolicited reply.
you really gotta keep it anonymous and separate when you go into streaming. because otherwise you will get in worst cases doxed and in best cases harassed.
There's nothing wrong with representing yourself honestly to the public, but that comes with a huge sacrifice to your own privacy.
all it takes is googling a username and you can find every account related to that username.
So... just something to think about. obviously you can make your facebook, youtube, instagram, twitter, etc. private, but then why even have them?
best way to keep it separate is to use an alternative username account for streaming, turn anonymous usernames on - a lot of games have that feature now, and never share your private account information.
most amateur streamers don't realize that it's necessary to do this stuff. but really most streamers are personas created. meaning they do not share their true private selves with their communities. it's unprofessional and a majorly unnecessary risk. once you become a "face" and start exposing yourself willingly like markiplier, tyler1 or the big name streamers then you take on that "celebrity" status. and a lot of that life is stressful and not for everybody, but at least like billy eilish talking about her boobs - she can shrug off the haters as a drop in the bucket.
without support it's hard to do that without a massive ego and insane levels of confidence.
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for clarity sake -
thrill of the hunt
haunted ground
ruin
retribution
mint rag
rusty shackles.
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@Krazzik said:
The 'noise notification when cleansing hex' doesn't exist anymore, they nerfed Thrill of the Hunt so it doesn't do that anymore.
it's a different perk now. let me find it.
hex retribution, but anyway - the point of thrill of the hunt is to slow the cleanse. not to give the noise notification. the noise notification comes from the survivor stepping on your sigil which is beside the totem.
but yeah. still run thrill of the hunt. not hex retribution. sorry. you confused me. i'm half asleep and misread your reply.
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im not sure what this post is meant to convey, but i'll do my best to respond honestly.
Streaming on twitch is going to open you up to personal attacks. you're exposing yourself. even more so if you choose to use a camera to show yourself to your viewers.
you have to accept that as part of the experience since no amount of defense is going to aid you if it's reactive. and it has to be reactive. meaning you're going to get threats, insults, and hateful comments.
It might help to do a virtual avatar when streaming that way you can have "facial response reactions" for engagement purposes while still staying anonymous enough to avoid insults that call out physical attributes you might have.
viewers only matter if you're trying to monetize your channel.
as far as how you play and who you play - killers are going to get flame. that's just how it goes. you're the bad guy. you're the epitome of "only i get to have fun". so just embrace it and roll on through the hate. you're an important part of the dbd formula. it's up to the devs to balance the game so it's rewarding and balanced. thats not your job.
one way to avoid getting flack for how you play is to protect yourself with anonymous usernames and using a different twitch account name that doesn't share your in-game username. it won't help if you're the only person streaming a game, but that's the risk you take when playing an unpopular game. typically there are a dozen or so of streamers for dbd though.
Can't do anything about your region not having a fan base, large population, access to internet, or whatever else you might experience. that's why it's important to share what you love with those around you and convince others to try it.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322568#Comment_3322568
Yes, I know. My suggestion is: Don't.
but i like to hide bear traps, sigils, dream snares, pig noses, and other such things in it.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
I have no idea why when you play killer you get "thicken mist" in your bloodweb. I have never played a killer that made think: "You know what this killer needs? To not be able to see. That'll help me get the win."
Now, I completely grant that this could just be me... but shouldn't this be like "lighten mist". I have no idea why I would ever get excited for more mist when I play as the killer. I would never ever in a billion years pick it if I wasn't forced to by the entity taking something I would pretty much infinitely prefer which is literally anything else.
there are both sets of offerings in the blood web. murky reagent, hazy reagent, clear reagent, and faint reagent are in both survivor and killer webs.
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sometimes you'll get a team that has never seen a (insert killer name here) and you'll just die. or you go to body block and they've already given up. or you'll get the players that think it's a race to get sacrificed so they run straight to the killers shack or the basement and die. or you get hooked and there are 3 people camping your hook watching you get face camped instead of doing generators. or you'll have that one genius run up and get you off the hook after someone else has just gone down next to it.
this goes for any killer. like - i just got into a game where i ran nurse around in circles for a good 3 minutes with bill - zero exhaustion perks because i'm trying to do a challengr - and finally she gave up. so i went back to doing gens and before i even go 90 seconds on the gen to pop it my entire team had died. tried to body block a hook and the shouldered survivor didn't make a single grunt. biggest waste of a queue.
so i get hit thinking "okay well she can't hook us both" teammate wastes his unbreakable to run over grab the afk player off the hook goes down and i end up on the hook. next to two downed players. wooh! ggwp. nurse OP (sarcasm)
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@Pepsidot said:
healing against a nurse is ill-advised
A few years ago I would've listened to this advice. But it is actually very rare to see a nurse use Nurse's Calling nowadays because of all of the good perk combos she's got. I expected her to have full gen slowdown or starstruck/agi + slowdown.
Maybe after her nerf, unless they're using full gen slowdown, Nurse's Calling might become a bit more popular though. I imagine it is still a really good perk for Nurse.
nurses calling isn't the issue. it's all of the other aura builds. nurses calling only lets you know when someone is healing on a 28 meter range. that's well within her terror radius (32). no clown is going to heal in her terror radius. it's about stopping to heal - self care takes too much time, coop heals give her more targets to hit, and if you're already injured you're the primary target for a quick sacrifice - so you're probably getting tunneled. her movement speed is attrocious when carrying bodies so body blocking can work unless she builds exclusively to counter it.
anyway - point about not healing isn't because of nurse's calling. still a good perk for a beginner nurse. it's more about learning to play like you've got broken at all times. because you probably do - using reactive healing, resurgence, renewal, inner healing, for the people, dead hard, breakout, better than new, adrenaline... there are just too many combinations that make up for the old school healing system. Keep moving and heal on the go.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322144#Comment_3322144
It’s way more chill and brain dead to play any other killer. Forcing pallets drops, dead zone, and 3gen is way easier.
Yes, nurse is more deadly the start of the game, but she cannot remove survivor defenses for good. So you have to stay focus at all times.
nurse is fun when it works. against 4 player swf it's a crapshoot and can be miserable. would rather play spirit any day in a situation like that.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322116#Comment_3322116
I'm sorry, but the only thing you got right here is Nurse is "skill reliant"
While yes she does take skill (and Survivors also need to learn how to verse her specifically) she doesn't take nearly as much as some like to make it out to be. She's actually pretty simple, and putting in a few hours to learn the timings and distances is all it takes
Predicting movement is actually a pretty common misconception by some who haven't played her much, or is newer to the game. I would agree with you if she only had 1 blink, but since she has 2 its a different story. You use your first blink to every single opening or possible path that a Survivor can take, and then use your 2nd blink (if you have to) to react to where the Survivor went. The only time this isn't really applicable, are in maps with LOTS of LoS blockers. The ability to do so makes her the best chaser in the game, and without a doubt the best killer in the game since she can use this tool to traverse the map relatively quickly.
i'll take your word for it.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Yeah nurse mains are insanely good at hitting blink strikes. It isn't easy to juke them, especially when you play on console.
Tbh i find stealth play is often best against nurse. I usually run distorion anyway but lockers are always handy to block aura reading.
And that only works well when you have comms or aura reading on the killer. Solo q teams get taken apart by any competent nurse because they can end chase so quickly.
i find that in my experience with a lot of players it seems that there are a TON of casual fans. So I tend to not take it personal when i lose to bad teamwork. but it is SO hard. from both ends. killer and survivor.
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@Murgleïs said:
Sorry but she is very boring to play now. I am not going to waste any more hours into her when I can have the same outcome with Sadako.
onryu also gets executions like meyers. definite a cool pick. in practice... one could argue onryu is closer to demogorgon but definitely alternatives for sure.
for me the issue with nurse is her cosmetics and the fact that she's not a AAA blockbuster killer.
There are very few killers that can match ghost face, meyers, sadako, etc. in fun and thematics. especially with newer killers having voiced lines. "I CAME!" - Pinhead.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
Hex: Absolution seems quite broken, since it's unstoppable and uncounterable.
How I'd change it:
Scourge: Absolution:
- Every time a Survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, one totem is chosen at random. If it's a Dull Totem, it is destroyed. If it targets a Boon, it Snuffs the boon instead. Every Survivor hooking, it picks a totem at random, it may not break the totem it just Snuffed.
- Scourge: Absolution has a cooldown of 60/45/35 seconds.
- Scourge: Absolution will not target Hexes. (Meaning those totems always exist to be Cleansed and Booned, and are untouchable UNTIL they are at least Cleansed)
Now it has use as an anti-boon/totem perk but requires Killer input. It also can't be spammed if many Survivors are rapidly hooked.
the order of dull, boon, hex, was meant to eventually destroy the killer's own hexes as a balancing mechanic. it was meant to be a double edged sword. and counter itself in the case of things like hex noed and hexes that use dull totems.
at least that was my thought process. your version is cool too. maybe both could exist lol.
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@Shroompy said:
After this post, Nurse will surely plummet down to D tier
she's never going to be D tier, but i like your humor.
you likely know as well as anyone that nurse is too player skill reliant to ever be terrible. most of her kit is based on predicting movement and getting lucky with surprise attacks. in a straight up chase you're at a disadvantage without a speed build. and speed builds counter blink builds. so really 🤷🏻♂️
it's like playing meyers and never using stalk because you really really want that undetectable ability.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321898#Comment_3321898
Don't look into Coup de Grace.
lol. coup de grace seems hilarious. lunge attacks - meaning fully held m1's - are a beginner's double edged blade. skilled players will dodge them and the extra stun duration makes it so you can actually lose a chase by lunge attacking when you should have just quick tapped. i haven't used the perk yet so I can only assume, but do you know if the perk causes additional frames of stun or lunge animation on top of the base frames? otherwise you'd move faster during your lunge. i can just imagine that meme where the killer lunges and the camera pulls the attack into a tree. it'd be like hillbilly running back and forth with his chainsaw and missing every time against a survivor moving slightly left or right.
Toss the lunge stun on top of the blink missed attack stun and that's a lot of pressure to ensure you dont miss your attacks. better bring both add-ons and unrelenting. of course that's only speculation. no clue how it actually works as i dont own the twins.
either way you only get 5 tokens out of it. unless you're referring to a pbe version. which i don't have access to.
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@StupidBanana said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321876#Comment_3321876
In PTB PWYF will not remove token if nurse use M2 attack.
You mean a teleport attack? that's fine. it still conflicts with her entire kit. and even with it she only gets 111.25% movement if i understand the earlier post correctly. which is barely more than hag and huntress
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@Phasmamain said:
The only real time double backing works is when you are on a second story. Otherwise she can just aim down and counter it completely
that takes some skill on the nurses part since she cant do that after releasing - only before. she deserves the hit if she lands it. same as if she guesses your 50/50 direction for the 90 cut. that means you were too predictable. but to be fair to you that's a good point to bring up. it's the same thing as using an impassable wall to shorten the distance if you go too far on your first teleport. there's also the issue of how long her teleport duration lasts since even though she might be shortening her distance she still does the fill phase animation.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
I'd never use any of these.
- Opening the gates is FAR too great a risk.
- I've never reached bloodlust 3 ever in any of my games, so dont think this is worth using.
- No real point to it, all you ever see that one healing boon and that one isn't too bad.
How about this:
Perk 1: Juggernaut
While this perk is active, when you are hit by a pallet, that pallet instantly breaks and you are not stunned. After a pallet has been broken by Juggernaut, this perk deactivates for 120/100/80 seconds.
Perk 2: Hex: Trip Wire
You can light a totem with Hex: Trip Wire. Any survivor's within 16/20/24 meter range have their aura revealed until they have left the range of the totem. Only 1 Hex: Trip Wire can be active at a time.
Perk 3: Energy Leech
If a survivor is hit by a basic attack after having been hooked twice, they get an Energy Leech. The Energy Leech causes survivors to be exhausted until it is removed. The Energy Leech can be removed once the survivor is at full health. The Energy Leech is automatically removed once the survivor enters the dying state.
i think there's a lot of fun to be had creating perks. even if you never use them someone else might. personally i think blood warden might be fun with devil's deal as a comeback combo.
hex absolution would just be a way to remove totems. kinda a counter to those totem players just because. obviously better perks, but idk. seemed interesting being able to remove totems in a way other than cleansing a boon. plus there are some hex's with the new knight killer that seem interesting.
as far as bloodlust 3 goes... i tend to go into it more often than i get 5 tokens on hex devour hope but it's all depending on play style. so i can respect not using something that conflicts with your playstyle.
juggernaut is the same as the spirit fury perk. just better as it could technically always break a pallet
tripwire is a weaker version of hex undying.
energy leach is basically the same as most add-ons for m1 killers. fearmonger, blood echo, and septic touch all provide exhaustion in situations where it would be more beneficial since if you've already hit an opponent then they're probably not able to use dead hard or their sprint bursts anyway. and since adrenaline activates regardless of exhaustion it wouldn't matter at that point. but it's different enought to be useful for a specific build certainly. like legion.
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@StupidBanana said:
Now nurse can move 4.4 m/s with Matchbox add-on and play with you food not lose stacks.
pwyf increases movement speed by 5%. idk how the game does percents, but if we assume 4 is 400% then you'd get .2 increase to movement. if 4 is 100% then you'd get .05. Max of 3 tokens. tokens are lost when you basic attack or special attack. so if she teleports and misses she's losing tokens. if she doesn't teleport then she's sacrificing her entire killer power for movement speed that puts her on par with a powerless and itemless meyers stuck at level 1.
if you're going to do a meme build like that might as well get some bloodpoints out of it 🤷🏻♂️
personally i dont see any reason to use movement perks on nurse when you're better off using aura perks and exposed perks.
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@StupidBanana said:
Now nurse can move 4.4 m/s with Matchbox add-on and play with you food not lose stacks.
matchbox removes a teleport. and it's 4.2
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@Rizzo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321692#Comment_3321692
It got caught by the spam filter, I approved it.
oh. understandable. i edit a lot and post in bursts. thanks for that. sorry for the issue.
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my comment disappeared?
how unfortunate.
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@Tobi1478 said:
While I really enjoy this game, the penalty for being kicked or disconnecting is outdated and seriously needs some work put into it. I am so tired of my internet dropping and I come back to 5, 10, 15minute + penalty because I have loss of power or whatever the reasoning.
They should add a ReJoin match button, since the matches don't get filled anyway, why can't you rejoin the match? Like come on. You should be able to bypass the penalty simply rejoining the match and playing. This should reset all your progress and load you in as if you just loaded in at the start of the match. I hate being penalized for something that is unavoidable.
There is honestly no excuse this hasn't been added to the game yet, so many other games have this feature, why doesn't DBD?? I hope this is actually considered for the next PTB or sometime in the near future. You guys are doing so many QoL changes, why isn't this one?
i understand your frustration. my power went out last night because of some clown slamming into a power line in their car. of course i hope they're alright, but it doesn't changed the fact that i was booted from a match i was winning.
nevertheless the issue with rejoining a game like this is that the game's entire design is based on time management and health states through constant interactions. consider how the match would change if a player was allowed to leave and rejoin.
first - a killer that leaves and rejoins could hold a match hostage as a bloodpoint farm. which would be boring for the survivors. in fact there used to be an afk doctor build that players used back when the rework hit live. doc bots would do a sequence of moves to prevent being kicked which forced the survivor players to do gens and leave while being harassed by constant madness explosions from an afk doc.
However, instead of being harassed by madness the killer would be missing entirely. the killer could rejoin - depending on load times - and if the killer failes to join back in 3 minutes the game would be over. Even on series X it takes a good 2-3 minutes to load the match up. last generation consoles haven't got a chance in hell.
and that's pretty much how it would go for killers every time. it's irrelevant whether the model stays in the world if the killer leaves, but some perks would probably break.
survivors on the other hand would have 2 options.
option 1 is the survivor model stays in the world and you have those running in a straight line till they hit a wall characters or you have characters that are standing still. either way crows would build onto the player and after a certain amount of time the player would be found by a killer and hooked. it takes 90 seconds for a survivor to die without any assistance on a hook. if hook farmed it takes 5 seconds. assuming you're not hook farmed and you disconnected in a safe location like a locker or the edge of the map. so in a perfect scenario you'd get 100 seconds till crows spawn and 120 seconds for a sacrifice. aloting you 220 seconds to fix your internet and reconnect before you die - assuming you're not already hooked and you're not farmed by altruistic villains.
so even in a perfect situation you've got less than 4 minutes (240 seconds) to return.
most likely youll have less than 1 minutes because you'll be found and hooked and farmed.
the other option is for your body to disappear from the match and then reappear where you left off. so if for example you leave while in a killer's grasp or while bleeding out in dying state or during a chase or with a reverse beartrap on your head or when there are 5 generators unrepaired. or if everyone else died except you but the hatch is open... i'm sure you can see the countless number of issues with this option.
i hope that explains why you can't rejoin. this isn't a round based game with balanced team elements. it's a 1v4 free for all style elimination match where the main source of eliminations come from the killer. imagine if you could rejoin fall guys after desynch. it just wouldn't make sense gameplay wise. the game considers you as eliminated if you disconnect. that's why the game ends if the killer disconnects.
some games that come to mind with rejoin functions are r6 siege and rocket league. Siege uses a rounds out of a total of 9 possible rounds system where the match resets each round. those rounds take only 3 minutes, but a whole match can take an hour with most taking no more than 20 minutes. a dead by daylight match CAN be completed in 3 minutes, but is highly unlikely to be done before 5. if players felt that rounds should be added where best of 5 or best of 9 matches should be held then the rejoin function would make more sense. rocket league is similar as after every score the game resets. dead by daylight currently does not have a reset system and matches are too short to defend holding it hostage until a player returns.
however, i'm sure you've probably played some other games like friday the 13th? those games have lobbies where players compete to be the killer (jason) and so it can be beneficial to maintain the lobby's history of players so each player can get a fair chance at being killer. so that game let's you join back also - except if you do disconnect then you just die. including the killer.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321323#Comment_3321323
This is one of your points I just dont get, the chase is easy to identify by the chase music, and I really dont have the issues you describe of bloodlust not kicking in or losing it unintentionally.
The real problem is to remove bloodlust you would have to rebalance so many aspects of the game you would be better off building a new game from the ground up.
i mean... it's fair to say that. 🤷🏻♂️ i can only vouch for my own experience. and it's not like this post is me raging at something. just a thought.
basically, when chasing around a wall that's a bit longer, but you can clearly see the survivor - killer shack for example - if you spend too much time playing the opposite from window side to pressure a pallet throw or vault it can cause you to lose bloodlust even though you can clearly see the survivor. same with places like the junked cars on auto haven wreckers and certain tiles on meat factory - like the double shelves. i'm sure there are orhers, but those are the ones that come to mind. Even with blood lust 3 some of these locations would be safe so it's unfortunate that you can't build it.
the other things would be similar to what assortedsorting understood. the issue of seeing something only because the game informed you you're in a chase. places with tall grass, corn, and heavy vegetation that has to be traversed. there are times when i've been notified i'm in a chase because the criteria was met, but without me realizing anyone was there.
likewise there are perks and addons that remove the red stain. yet they're somewhat pointless if the survivor is told they're in a chase the moment they decide to run somewhere. i like to use lightweight and run everywhere - it's obviously going to get me found out, but i would rather move faster with certain builds. if i as a survivor have no clue what's behind me and i just happen to be running through a distracted field of view of the killer it can pick up my movement and inform both the killer and survivor that we're nearby - which isn't something that should happen.
the other reasons like i said are minor, but relate to mind games. certain stalker builds and such really take a hit when dealing with the chase mechanics. or at least it seems that way to me. it's too specific and situational to name everything but one thing is spirit pallet drop baiting. chase music tells you all you need to know.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321300#Comment_3321300
"hiding in plain sight" - What issue do you refer to?
If you mean that a Survivor can be around corners in a loop for a decent amount of time and drop chase in that regard, why not just increase the duration on the out of line of sight end and remove the camera angle cutout (with the excuse that the Killer can still hear footsteps)
The issues of bloodlust not being granted because of line of sight issues constantly cancelling chases, the issue of a survivor being informed they're in a chase, the issue of killers being informed they're in a chase, and various other minor things
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321263#Comment_3321263
Utilizing Ghost Face's Reveal Mechanic to essentially fill a "Chase Meter" on a Survivor that can hold up to 8s and plays into how you gain Bloodlust could help with advocating for "Eyes on". Filling the Meter to Max on hit (in the case of things like Corn or finding a Survivor that is hiding in a Bush that obscures LoS) might be a way to approach it, and of course having a maximum distance it can trigger.
This Meter might or might not be shown to the Killer, and may or may not be included in how Bloodlust builds.
But it does sound a lot like the current criteria, just with a more natural feeling falloff and perhaps a more accurate start (in the case of Corn)
yeah. that's basically the goal anyway. to avoid the bs "hiding in plain sight" issues that the current chase mechanic can't distinguish.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
Last thing survivors need is more OP perks. Killers should get a couple of good ones. The last 9 are all trash.
sorry to disappoint you.
feel free to check out my other post and tell me what you think of my killers perks then.
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@AssortedSorting said:
Bloodlust is an unfortunately nicely named mechanic whose actual purpose is to make sure a Killer player has a crutch to always get a hit in.
You need to figure out a way to insert that same crutch into whatever rage mechanic you think up, be it inside the same mechanic, or in a new one.
While the Chase criteria you provide is highly precise (when the Killer hits a Survivor, they are for sure in a chase), it is horribly inaccurate, as it completely ignores any attempt to get that initial hit in, in the first place.
Though I can see a Chase change its state after the first hit, such as enabling a passive rage mechanic gain after this point, designed specifically for M1 Killer gameplay or a Perk mechanic that functions off of spreading out hits.
I would like to do away with the crutch if at all possible. I think the initial movement speed advantage 4.0 vs the y variable should be enough unless stunned or the survivor uses a crutch. i dont think killers should have crutch mechanics for chase mechanics as it makes it so they're weaker than survivors initially. i personally think balance wise it would make more sense to force the survivor to use a crutch mechanic - such as an exhaustion perk in order to avoid a chase. The main focus should be on gens and hiding for survivors. Chases should benefit the killer to some degree.
As far as how that would be achieved - it would require some more standardized dimensions to the pallet and vault system, but i do believe that it's possible to still allow for some that are varied slightly while still maintaining fair gameplay. it might make the game slightly more predictable or more boring than having the bizarre useless loops and "god pallets".
then grant blood thirsty buffs as they're earned from stuns or whatever.
As far as ignoring everything up until the first melee attack - yes, i realized the issue there. I just forgot to come up with an alternative because i'd gone so far with the rest of it.
My thoughts are that there are really 2 options. A targetted system - which might ruin immersion - or a trigger system - which is similar to the melee attack initiating a chase.
in some ways I don't actually mind having everything that leads up to the first attack being ignored. First stun or first attack either or.
But for the sake of simplicity maybe the best version would just be a system similar to ghostface's reveal mechanic. 🤷🏻♂️
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@YOURFRIEND said:
I like near miss. Challenge perks are a sort of unexplored space that I think could be a lot of fun.
I think so as well. Bloodpoint farming could become more interesting - especially since it could be done outside of gimmick killer add-ons and offerings. I know there's "no one left behind" "prove thyself" "beast of prey" "distressing" and "hex thrill of the hunt" that offer bloodpoints, but i wouldn't consider most of these perks challenge perks.
there could at least be 4 challenge perks that reward bloodpoints in one of each category - boldness, altruism, objective, and survivor. as well as 4 for killers - deviousness, hunting, sacrifice, and brutality. For now there only appear to be power add-on gimmicks for bloodpoints.
outside of the offerings.
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@Seraphor said:
I don't blame you for forgetting that "Hoarder" is a perk that already exists.
who's it on? i have about 2/3rds of the killers. if it's just a name thing i can give it a different name. i was thinking it could be combo'd with cannibals perk that causes items to be dropped.
*edit
nvm. i found it. i don't own the twins and they released while i was busy with college graduation. how embarrassing. let me replace it with another perk.
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@DrFrozen said:
I don't like the Remote trap idea, stupid survivor would be able to loop killer 4ever especially in shack. What else, maybe should it activate automatically?!!!!! Wouldn't like to see anything like this.
I considered another version of this as well. It was something like this
"Black Cat's Favor". after passing through a pallet the pallet will automatically collapse after 3 seconds. Or something like that.
but i didn't bother thinking it through because it seemed more balanced to just make it an ammo based perk. where you get like 1-3 free pallet stuns. could be an exhaustion perk or timer based as well 🤷🏻♂️
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Also - I guess I should also address that the only way to get extra distance is: Speed increases, stuns, or misdirection. I won't include hiding or waiting as those do not increase distance, but rather rely on the killer to misuse their movement speed by veering away from the intended radius.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320779#Comment_3320779
The math is much simpler than you are making it, 8m head start, killer moves .6m/s faster than survivor.
8m÷0.6m/s = 13 seconds to catch up regardless of further distance traveled
So x/y=n? x being starting distance, y being speed difference, and n being time it takes to catch up? okay so we are talking about the same formula. So then we need to make n=45 at an expected x radius. that means 45x.6=27. so a chase should be considered at 27 meters. At 27 units if nothing caused an issue for either player then the chase would end in 45 seconds with a down. This would have to also include the Sprint burst from an injury and the injury to dying state itself. Which actually means a single instance of basic attacking can take no longer than 22.5 seconds. So... if we factor that in also... 22.5x.6=13.5. Or in other words a killer has to maintain a constant 13.5 meter relationship between itself and at least 1 other survivor given any radius. If a killer cannot do this then that killer will lose the match.
So! Let's go back to the example you gave for haddonfield. Remember the 15m perimeter and 30m perimeter? Is it any wonder Killers feel weak sometimes? Of course with blood lust currently a player could eventually go faster.
It takes 15 seconds to even get bloodlust. and it's only a .2 increase. So 15x.6=9. Which means blood lust is only useful at distances greater than 9 meters. Likewise for 10 seconds at a distance of 8 additional meters. 10 more seconds for 10 meters, and then if you hang in there for 35 seconds (well beyond the requirement for a first hit, but under the limit for a 2nd hit) you'll be rewarded with 5.2 movement speed. Which again is 27 meters To get blood lust 3. Even blood lust 2's currently useless as it requires that you chase for 25 seconds and have minimum distance of 17m - Which is more than the required distance of the example you provided given that the pallet is assumed to be broken upon being dropped and over the desired time of 22.5 seconds.
So the issue of blood lust being bad is already present if players wanted to early drop pallets. the added 2 seconds is just a plus if you stun.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320427#Comment_3320427
My introductory statement isnt actually flawed. Due to differences in player skill and human descisions there will always be the possibility of not getting a hit, nothing can be done to fix that.
Lets take your concept though, bloodlust is changed so the killer only gains it by being stunned. What happens if the killer doesn't get stunned?
There is no bloodlust, you now have loops that can be essentially infinites, every single map/pallet/loop would have to be rebalanced.
Here is your new gameplay loop, I will use a very basic loop from Haddonfield with 2 cars and a pallet between them.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/01ZBCEI0GC8A/20230116-194155.jpg
1. Survivor goes to pallet and drops just before killer gets there so no stun.
2. A) Killer breaks pallet and survivor runs away, survivor gains 2 seconds of distance or 8m for the pallet break animation.
B) Killer chases around loop with no bloodlust, standing on opposite side of the pallet survivor has approx 13m of distance.
8m of distance is 13 seconds for a 4.6 killer and 20 seconds for a 4.4.
13m of distance is 21 seconds for a 4.6 killer and 32 seconds for a 4.4
Thats with no exhaustion perks, and i will ignore the 4.4 killer and focus on the 4.6.
In option B the 21 seconds can be reset with a well timed vault so you will probably have to break the pallet.
In option A the 13 seconds is going to be enough time to get to the next pallet or window to buy another bit of distance to get to a pallet.
Lets just use the 15 seconds though (13 seconds catch up + 2 seconds break time) assuming 13 pallets per map, this means a survivor could run the killer for 195 seconds which is enough time for the other 3 survivors to complete all 5 gens
Yes! this is the conversation I was looking for. Thank you for providing this example. So assuming no blood lust can be gained we then instead create a scenario where blood lust is unnecessary for a successful hit - if the killer plays perfectly without redirecting his or her focus.
I just noticed though that it doesn't seem like you've provided an example for how long it takes for a killer to catch up to a survivor. I'll do that for time sake. In increments of 4 the amount of distance traveled by the killer increases by .6 meters per second over the survivor. (or .4 for some). from 0-4 meters you can hit the survivor in less than 1 second. from 5-8 units its (x+y)/4.6 is greater than or equal to survivor time given same distance. x is starting distance and y is added distance. so for a killer 4.6/4.6=1 which means anything below 4.6 is 1 second of chase. at 9.2/4.6=2. (which makes me question the 8 unit math you've done. clearly 4.6x2 is not 13. 4.6x3 is 13.8. so perhaps you're using a different system than i am. regardless the math is simple. you get a .6 bonus to distance travelled per second. which means every 7 seconds you travel an additional second of distance with a remainder of .2. so if your opponent is x meters away you can expect to gain on them at a rate of ~1/7th a second. or in other words it takes ~7 seconds to catch a survivor at beyond 4 meters per additional 4 meters and after 28 meters you gain a second back. maybe that's where you get 13? regardless.
if we use the numbers you provided 8/13 and 8/20 and 4/1 we end up with the scenarios you provided regardless of bloodlust. perimeter being 30 units with a bisector for essentially a 15 perimeter equivalence. which boils down to basically meaning 30/4.6 ; 15/4.0. 6.52~ for a 4.6 killer to circle without breaking pallet. And 3.75 for a survivor to make it to the pallet.
in zero scenarios is it worth not breaking the pallet. by making it 15/4.6 the time becomes 3.2. according to your numbers this gives the survivor ~2 seconds to look for a new option such as another nearby loop or hiding place. this is still less than 6.52 at 5.2
So in this situation your only viable option is break the pallet.
I'm going to use your 195 seconds example since it's what you provided, however, you failed to provide a preferred time or a range of times that would be considered appropriate for a 4K versus a 4E. 4K=4 kills and 4E=4 escapes.
if we assume that 90 seconds is what it takes to repair 1 generator and that generators are repaired simultaneously and the final is repaired by 4 players at 41 seconds then a game can be through the generator phase in 131 seconds. So if a perfect game is 131 seconds (not including add-ons, perks, items, etc.) then a terrible game would be 90x5 or 450 seconds. or 7.5 minutes. So a killer should succeed somewhere between the middle ground or on the upper end of the bell curve. in other words 7.5/3 or 2.5. every 2.5 minutes the game slips closer to killer advantage. 2.5 is greater than a perfect game. 135<150. then the killer zone is 5-7.5 minutes. at this point the game is in favor of the killer. and from 2.5-5.0 it's neutral. obviously there is the gen rush strat that can bring generators to under 70 seconds, but that's a broken system that is intentionally broken to reward perfect scenarios. just the same as there are broken killer perfect scenarios. tombstone+fragrant tuft comes to mind on a speedster meyers build.
But then what is the goal for a non perfect scenario perfect killer? if we chase a single player then that adds 90 seconds to the total. since 3 gens will be completed in the first 90 seconds. that means 2 gens will still need completion. with 1 survivor hooked. according to the wiki it takes 2 minutes to die from a hook. which means that worst case scenario is 2 survivors finish 1 gen in 52 seconds and head towards the door and the remaining solo gen will be finished in 90 seconds. what's more likely to happen is that 1 person heads to the door and 2 people work on the gen. this would reduce the overall time to about 23 additional seconds. or 75 seconds. if all 3 work it then its 19 or 71 total seconds. negligible difference. if we assume 20 seconds for the gate to open that's about 95 seconds. that's not even long enough to guarantee a sacrifice if you camped - which due to endurance being default for hook saves, 3 full hp players can easily overwhelm a killer.
so face camping is out. it's not viable.
but what if a killer chases after hooking? same scenario if the chase goes longer than 90 seconds. that's still 3 players doing gens. so the goal for a killer has to be able to chase at less than 90 seconds. what about 45 seconds? thats twice as many. if a killer chases at 0 percent for 45 seconds 3 gens will be at 45 percent. it's more efficient to work on separate generators. so until generators < survivors that's the assumption we'll use. at 45 percent a second survivor leaves to get chased. that's 2 hooks. and 2 generators completed. 45 seconds is less than 60 so the second survivor can still be hooked again. it we assume there's a minor reset (both survivors are saved but not healed) that means 3 people can go back to gens and 1 can be chased for the 45 second duration. at 90 seconds 2.5 gens are repaired. at 135 seconds 3 gens are fully repaired and 2 are half repaired. if we assumed the person on the hook at 135 then we have a similar scenario to before. however after 45 seconds both gens will be repaired only allowing for a total of 4 hooks and 2 hook transitions. add 20 seconds for gate. This value would be about neautral the match - 2 kills. Which means that 45 seconds is the middle ground for chase time. 60 and 30 being the advantage zones. for survivor amd killer respectively. taking into account for perks, items, add ons and human error it should be easy to provide a 15 second variable without adding it to the base calculations.
this means that killers should always be able to catch a survivor at 45 seconds of chase - regardless of bloodlust. for 2 seconds advantage per chase survivors would need to stun 15x4/2=30 times. this would by far outweigh your 13 pallets scenario.
if loops are designed to be useless after 45 seconds of constant chase then the issue of looping disappears.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309090#Comment_3309090
Currently you gain bloodlust over time in a chase and only lose it if you drop chase, land an attack or break a pallet.
This means the longer a chase goes the more likely you are to get a hit in eventually.
Pre-dropping a pallet refers to dropping a pallet in chase before the killer enters the zone of a stun to prevent a hit.
There are essentially 3 different strength levels of pallets.
God pallets: These pallets almost exclusively cannot be played around and have to be broken or the survivor can loop indefinitely or completely block an area. Killers cannot use mindgames or bloodlust to get a hit here. Classic example is Shack pallet, but also several on the game and a few other maps or the top of the stairs on RPD.
Safe pallets: These are generally on stronger tiles and either require a very good mindgame, a survivor mistake or the pallet to be broken to get a hit. Blooodlust can help but usually the loop is too long for it to be effective until the higher tiers and even then is difficult.
Unsafe pallets: These are on shorter loops and filler tiles, a killer can usually get around these with bloodlust or simple mindgames and generally give very little distance when leaving the loop. When the killer stands at the edge of the loop the killer can get a hit at the pallet in the time the vault animation takes or can pass around the loop if the survivor leaves without giving up much distance unless the survivor lands a stun.
A stun will always gain more time than pre-dropping but at god/safe pallets predropping will still usually gain a lot of distance when the killer breaks/goes around the pallet. At an unsafe pallet predropping is usually not very helpful as the killer can usually walk around the pallet in the same or less time as the break animation, the survivor gains little distance and if the killer has bloodlust can often get a hit in between loops. Also if a survivor gets greedy or mistimes the drop going for the stun can be the reason they get hit.
If the killer does not gain bloodlust during a chase then a survivor can theoretically run to a pallet, start looping, predrop the pallet and get to the next loop often without losing a health state and lead to extremely long/indefinite chases especially on standard mobility killers.
As to losing bloodlust, while getting a hit or breaking a pallet will cause you to to bloodlust, bloodlust itself makes it very difficult to lose it in the other ways. If you walk instead of run for 5 seconds this will generally result in getting hit at all but the safest pallets, It is also much harder to break line of sight for 8 seconds.
If you only gain bloodlust by getting stunned this would encourage more predropping as stuns would boost killers in addition to being riskier than predropping, and reduce/eliminate the killers ability to get hits in between loops of god/safe pallets, and trying to regain distance on a survivor using lithe, balanced landing, or a 99'd sprint burst would be terrible.
Your introductory statement is flawed. "more likely" and "eventually". So when? When I hit bloodlust 2? Bloodlust 3? You can't say. Nobody can because the mechanic isn't static. it's dynamic. Which is exactly my point. The fact is you may never actually get a hit in. Because dead hard exists and there are some pallets and wall configurations where you have to break the pallet or look beyond the survivor because even with blood lust 3 you won't be able to catch a player. All 3 of those situations will reset blood lust and sometimes those situations are stacked side by side. Meaning as a killer the match was rigged from the start in the survivors favor. easiest example is meat factory. For this reason alone I run brutal strength on killers without a teleport or stealth gimmick. 20% isn't much, but it's something.
Thank you for clarifying your definition of "pre-dropped". I would consider the act of "pre-dropping" a waste, but 🤷🏻♂️ then again I have decent internet and a wired connection so I don't typically rubberband. The only benefit I could see to pre-dropping would be to distract via noise cue and then resetting it with Yui's perk "any means necessary". There may be others, but that's the only one that comes to mind. maybe lithe, but honestly just look for a window at that point. there are almost 8 pages though so i apologize in advance if i missed something.
The concept of tiered pallets being good or bad for gameplay is honestly an opinion so I won't spend too much time talking about it. bottom line is this - it's inevitable that some things in the map are going to be better or worse for looping. That being said I personally believe that "god pallets" are a broken mechanic. As well as a cringy name. essentially what this equates to is a pallet that isn't balanced - at all. Layering them in the game as safe, neutral, and unsafe is ironic and of course inevitable, but nothing should be "safe". That's part of the reason why the game can feel so survivor sided. I personally would prefer that all pallets be a neutral reset and serve the same purpose. if you stun you escape and if you block a path you buy time.
I disagree with your scenario for the bloodlust being gained by stuns causing early pallet drops. For one thing there are more than just pallet stuns: flashlights, flashbangs, firecrackers, blast mines, grasp escapes, headons, and decisive strikes to name a few. If anything you'd be giving up a significant weapon as a survivor to counter an inevitability. Because currently the idea of movement speed increasing as a player chases limits the base movement speed of the killers. This portion would simply need to be rebalanced.
If we take a purely mathematical approach to a chase, then it should be expected to end after a specific amount of time. You can treat a chase like a mathematical equation this way. Something like it takes x amount of seconds for speed A to overtake speed B from initial y distance. actions like stuns or exhaustion perks would increase the initial distance by a min-max range based on balance. With this method every action can be balanced and the concept of blood lust being applied based on stuns and permanently increasing base movement until downing or possibly even hooking would allow for a tier system that either linearly or exponentially decreases that x value as the killer is assaulted.
and the most important part. it would provide an outlet for a back and forth interaction between the survivor and killer sides without feeling abusive or useless in design.
I play a lot of killer. when it comes to a chase it's possible to draw it out as a flowchart. i recommend you giving it a shot. or anyone else reading for that matter.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/359875/a-rework-to-chase-mechanics
The biggest problem with your bloodlust suggestion is it heavily rewards predropping pallets and hold W gameplay
I’m honestly not sure how it would do that. In fact I’m almost positive it would do the opposite.
For one thing: running away as a strategy should always be valid, but never preferred.
currently the game assumes that killers can catch up by using bloodlust. But all a player has to do to avoid that is perform a chase interruption or convince a killer to break a pallet. I’ve provided the wiki’s explanation of bloodlust’s current model. Even just walking around a pallet loop will rob the killer of the potential for that assumed speed increase.
So if anything the always “w” strat is already in effect because in theory the killer shouldnt stop chasing you if it wants to build bloodlust.
Whereas with my model there’s nothing to lose by waiting. Nothing to lose by breaking pallets. And the speed will be irrelevant to how long a chase persists outside of perks and abilities. So as a survivor always using W will grant you a swift death after w set amount of time. Because regardless of which killer (excluding nurse) the movement speed will always be in the killers favor. As base movement is 4.0 for survivors and 4.4-4.6 for most killers.
That’s before we even acknowledge the fact that the new bloodlust model could be utilized to increase movement speed per stun. Or there could be perks that increase movement speed (such as pwyf)
And I’m also confused as to why dropping pallets would benefit players. Particularly survivors. And especially not outside of a chase? All that would do is allow the killer to break the pallets and you return back to being too slow to outrun the killer. Causing you to have to rely exclusively on exhaustion perks to prevent yourself from getting caught.
The main point of the pallet stun is to grant oneself extra time by disabling the killer’s vision and movement. If you throw it early you’re giving up that whole point for a simple vault - which can just be walked around and most killers will just break it for the free points in brutality.
Maybe you’re confused or you believe there to be more to it? Please elaborate.
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he doesn't have a large terror radius because it would make his ability pointless. He's already as tall as freddy. if you could hear him coming he'd never get a chance to use his ability. Personally... i feel like his terror radius should bloom like doc's. but in regards to that how would that even be possible?