thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
About
- Username
- thesuicidefox
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1297083#Comment_1297083
"Get salty and lost and leave a game" is none of the reasons I listed why I would DC.
Basically what you are saying is: "If you have a legitimate reason for you to DC but it doesn't match one of the reasons I would DC, you are just being a salty loser".
Which means you have no empathy.
Empathy is defined as: "the ability to understand and share the feelings of another."
You only "understand" if said people only DC for any reasons you classify as emergencies, which the only one you've really noted so far is the loss of human life is imminent. But you fail to understand if someone disconnects for whatever else may be an emergency or justifiable reasons for them.
That is not empathy.
See, if someone DCs for any reason, even if it's a rage quit, instead of me calling them a salty loser which you are doing, I apologize to them that they had a bad game in chat (if it's a killer anyway, because the survivor is probably long gone) and wish them better luck in their next match. Because at the end of the day it's just a game and I want everyone to have fun, not be frustrated. And I have faint hopes that if people were a little more nicer and understanding to each other in this community rather than calling each other salty losers when someone DCs unless someone in their immediate family is dying, that maybe will DC a bit less.
That's empathy.
I sure as hell don't call the another player a salty loser if they're stuck in a tree and DC because they can't play. That's just mean.
If the game bugs that sucks but if you DC that's a cop out.
Having an emergency is a legit reason to leave because you have to.
But if the game bugs out then oh well. It sucks but ######### happens. Might as well just take your BP and take the death/loss. You're just giving people more reasons to leave, because not every bug will make you get stuck. Those are actually quite rare compared to all the other bugs in the game. I've seen killers get stuck checking a locker when the game was basically over anyway and they DC. What is the point of this if the game is going to end soon anyway? You do it to say "well I only lost because I got bugged" when in fact you lost because you lost and then just conveniently got bugged and used it as an excuse to justify leaving, which then makes it easier to make such an excuse in the future.
Apologizing to them for "having a bad game" is literally enabling them to DC more in the future. You just reinforce the idea that the DC was justified and that they were right to do it. Instead of telling them to man up and just take a loss like they should, which then discourages them from DC'ing in the future.
What you are doing only makes the problem worse, as I keep saying.
PS. Being empathetic would be to say "sorry you had a bad game" if they finish the game. Then you give positive reinforcement for GOOD behavior (staying in the game). But a DC is BAD behavior you don't want to encourage that.
-
@shwag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296965#Comment_1296965
I guess he never played as killer with a swf seal team 6 lol.
Yeah some people might play casual but every killer game i get of late feels like I am playing against a bunch of tourney level survivors and then I get to the end game screen and oh look all red ranks... Yeah casual... Mmmkay
Not sure if you mean me or him or the other guy. I'm assuming you are validating our points?
I've played against these squads. Regularly even, pretty much every game at rank 1 on Xbox is a 4 stack SWF. But I take my losses. I've been completely bodied as pretty much every killer. I'm still not gonna DC though.
And yes, you make a good point that people really don't treat the game as a "casual game". This might be true at low ranks, but at red ranks it is FAR from it.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1297066#Comment_1297066
No. You are just someone who has no empathy. You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to justify it, but at the end of the day this is what is happening.
See? I can do it too.
If you get salty you lost and leave a game I'm not going to be empathetic.
If your kid drank bleach and you have to go to the hospital, I'll empathize with that because it's a legit reason to DC.
Seriously stop DEFENDING DC'S. You make the problem worse. I'm not making the problem worse by calling people out for their bull #########.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Jesus Christ, this thread.
You can't dictate that people only DC to not take a loss without knowing any context or logical reason why people may DC, whether unintentionally or intentionally.
You can't just dictate that the only legitimate reasons to DC are reasons that only befit your bias. Some people play this game super seriously. Some people play this game super casually. If I feel the need to DC because something in real life took importance or because the game is performing so badly that it's no longer worth my time.
It's not only because I or anyone else just can't take an L.
Tell me how I should learn from the situation when I'm stuck in a locker and can't get out and the killer can't even attack me so I'm just stuck there, thus unable to play the game properly?
Tell me how I should learn when I have the basement bug and literally can't play the game because I'm just stuck falling through the world permanently on my end, thus unable to play the game properly?
Tell me how I should learn when I'm stuck in a generator or a pallet and am physically unable to move, thus unable to play the game properly?
Tell me how I should learn to play Nurse when my entire power decides not to work and I'm stuck as a 96% M1 killer, thus unable to play the game properly?
Tell me how I should learn to play when I am literally unable to interact with ANYTHING in the match, thus unable to play the game properly?
Tell me how I can learn to hit skill checks better when the UI to show the skill check window never appears?
Tell me how I should learn to play when I am stuck crouched down in the "being healed" position and none of my inputs do anything, thus unable to play the game properly?
Tell me how I should learn when my game is stuck at 2~5 FPS a second, thus unable to play the game properly?
And by the way, people do DC on AFK killers. I know because I've had to go AFK for a time before as killer due to an emergency, only to come back with two people having DCed. Just because you haven't seen it happen does not mean it's impossible or it doesn't happen. It's almost like some people play this game to actually play this game rather than just farm blood points and the rift all day or something. I know. What an insane, outrageous concept. But alas, one that exists. And I'm one of those players, and so if something happens that comes up or causes me unable to actually play the game properly, then yes, I'm going to DC, and wait my 5 minute penalty, because I'm not going to sit in a match for 5~15 minutes where I cannot play.
It's not because I "can't just take the L". It's because I value my time more than sitting there wasting said time, especially in a situation where I'm not any better disconnected than I am stuck disconnected in the game unable to do anything or sitting there AFK.
If you really want people to disconnect less, maybe get on BHVRs ass to actually fix and optimize their game after 4 years so people have less reasons to disconnect so things that make the game actually unplayable don't happen.
Never seen someone before blame the players for the game being spaghetti coding and telling them they should just have to suffer through the game being a broken mess because it hurts someone's feefees that they don't just sit there, unable to play the game properly, but get judged on leaving said broken game, just to entertain you. Maybe instead of people learning to take the L, maybe you should learn some damn empathy.
"It's not because I "can't just take the L"."
It is actually. You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to justify it, but at the end of the day this is what is happening.
This community I swear... stop validating the DC's, you just make the problem worse.
@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296996#Comment_1296996
Ah yes, not being able to progress my objective, drop pallets, vault windows, or even move properly is clear proof that the game is still playable, and that I am just looking for a reason to DC. At this point I'm not even going to bother continuing this conversation because it's pointless to continue stressing this over and over to no avail.
"and that I am just looking for a reason to DC"
Maybe not this time but every time you DC you make it easier to justify doing it again in the future. Eventually it leads to people DC'ing for any number of lame reasons. If you reserve it for only the most extreme circumstances you avoid that slippery slope.
Just the fact that despite DC penalties people still quit the game because they are losing proves my points that you're just contributing to the problem by giving excuses to DC.
Unless it's an actual emergency you shouldn't be endorsing people to leave the game.
@felipao_brabo said:
Well, most of my games I end up getting disconnected because of some weird bug. It ain't my fault.
If the game DC's you that's different because it's beyond your control. You didn't decide to DC, it just happened.
-
@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296954#Comment_1296954
This is a matter of playability. I'm not on the game to do absolutely nothing. I'm playing the game to play the game. Casual or competitive, that's the whole point of a game. It's dumb to expect people to not leave when they're physically unable to do that.
Some players say the game is "unplayable" when they experience a single bug that actually has no long term impact on the game. Or if they get a single lag spike because that's just the nature of the internet sometimes.
In other words, people will sit there and say "this is unplayable" when it is entirely playable they just want an excuse to DC.
Like I said I've heard every excuse in the book. I'm not buying it.
-
@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296946#Comment_1296946
"Just a casual game but I'm gonna get salty as ######### over losing and ragequit no matter how it affects others."
k
Quoted for truth.
If people actually saw DBD as a "casual game" they wouldn't ragequit. The fact this is as prevalent as it is says that most people actually take the game pretty seriously, ergo they are not playing a casual game.
-
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296893#Comment_1296893
So when survivors DC against an AFK killer or a killer who's doing so poorly that at one gen left they haven't gotten any hooks and the survivors are super bored... survivors do that to avoid feeling like they lost? I mean, that's a guaranteed win for the survivors. They're DCing to not take a win. Or is disconnecting to not escape somehow also not taking an L?
I'm seriously asking, 'cause I don't see how survivors disconnecting against an AFK/r20 killer confirms your assertion that survivors prefer a killer experiencing technical difficulties stick around rather than DC.
LOL I've never seen a survivor DC because the killer was AFK. Even time I've seen an AFK killer, survivors rush gens/totems/chests, mess around for a bit, then leave.
IF they did this, it's not avoiding an L, but no one does this. Your example is a fantasy.
-
@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296942#Comment_1296942
Of course they don't have that mindset. Don't expect the community of a CASUAL GAME to be in the mindset of a TOURNAMENT GAME.
Again if it's a casual game then you shouldn't care about any of the BS that people use as an excuse to quit. You would sit and finish the game to collect your points and move on. The fact it's a casual game actually means there is less valid reasons to DC.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296743#Comment_1296743
It might be cowardly, but playing killer with 300+ ping is either awful to face or awful to experience. I'd much rather have a killer disconnect on me and let me find a match faster than have one hit me from 3 miles back because their Internet was having a seizure.
Just. Take. The. L.
It might be 300 ping now, but then the next time it's 250. Then 200. By the time you know it unless you have 10 ping you are quitting the game. One excuse enables the next.
-
@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296905#Comment_1296905
I've literally never found someone who took this game as seriously as you, oh my god take a chill pill dude.
This game is not meant to be competitive by the devs, which is why they are lenient on the DC penalties for the first few times, they understand that people have legitimate and actual concerns they have to take care of.
If it is a competitive setting where Disconnecting has far harsher penalties than "Oh well, guess that game sucked", then yes I would agree, you would need to make sure everything is working correctly before playing the game.
But Dead by Daylight is barely even competitive, the only competitive aspect of it are the rankings, it's the people who make it competitive. I play competitively because I find it fun, which is why I dislike people who DC out of rage, but I understand that this game is not built around that concept.
Though you are entitled to your opinion, and I am not interested in continuing this discussion, feel free to reply to this if you want, but just know you are alone in this when it comes to people who DC over technical issues.
If you DC you are a coward. IDC what game you are playing or the level of competitiveness. It's a cop out, a psychological defense mechanism. If you can't even finish a NON-competitive match in a video game with no actual reward, that's honestly pretty sad. You're whole argument is bass ackwards because if it's non-competitive then it shouldn't matter what happens and therefore you shouldn't feel the need to DC.
People DC to avoid admitting to themselves "I lost". Validating any reason to DC that's not an actual emergency is just enabling that behavior and makes it worse.
@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296912#Comment_1296912
I'm starting to think this was just bait lol. At least I'm hoping it is.
No bait. Use the experience to learn something, test something, don't just give up. By doing that you just make it easier to come up with an excuse in the future. Next time maybe you get a single lag spike that gets you hit, not even caught just hit, and then you could have kept playing but nope, I lag = DC.
-
@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296832#Comment_1296832
If I am literally rubber banding so badly that I can't even get to where I want to go, I'm gonna DC and restart my internet.
You know playing like that might actually help you improve. Lag is part of any game, just do your best maybe you will learn something.
-
Nice.
One more point, I ran game tournaments for almost 10 years. I HEARD EVERY EXCUSE IN THE BOOK.
- The sun is in my eyes.
- It's too crowded in here.
- These TVs have input lag (CRT TV BTW).
- I haven't eaten yet.
- My hands are cold.
- The rules are stupid.
- My controller is malfunctioning.
- They played super lame, anyone can do that.
- They got lucky.
- It's too late to play video games.
- I'm tired.
- You made me wait too long for my next game.
- You made me play 3 games in a row.
- That guy just abuses an exploit (eg. a legit game mechanic like pop shot in FPS or grab tech in fighters).
- The crowd wasn't on my side.
Literally every excuse. I don't buy any of it. YOU LOST. Very few players can admit they were the reason they lost, most (as in more than 95%) will say ANYTHING to soothe their ego so they didn't actually lose. DC'ing is just an extension of that. I've seen people ragequit IRL in tournament games for dumb reasons too. You will never get better if you give up like that when things don't go your way.
As we would say in the Smash community "NO JOHNS".
@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296893#Comment_1296893
There are multiple instances where people don't want to play against an AFKing Killer, or play with a Survivor that basically sabotages the team because they keep teleporting all over the place. No one here is saying that they didn't lose, they understand that they forfeit the game because they themselves are having technical issues.
Do you want to play against or with someone who legitimately CANNOT play the game bceause of stuff OUTSIDE their control?
So what. Take the L and move on. DC'ing is just a cop out to soothe the ego. PERIOD. You can justify it all you want but that's what is happening at the end of the day, and that player is just going to find dumber and dumber excuses to quit every time. Stop enabling it by defending DC's.
Unless someone is IRL injured or dying, or your Xbox catches fire, or something along those lines, there is no reason to DC.
-
@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296832#Comment_1296832
Jeez man, do you have to be so extreme? Not everything is entirely good or entirely bad. Some people have reasons and the devs themselves said as long as it is a legitimate emergency, you won't get in trouble for DCing.
It's not like the machine in question is going to constantly be going on and off mid-match, if that is the case they shouldn't be playing the game in the first place.
The guy has technical issues, he then Disconnected as to not ruin the game for the people he is playing against. I prefer a Killer who DCs over a Killer who AFKs. I want to play the game, not be stuck in queue only to get into a game where I got nothing to do.
TAKE AN L.
That's all there is too it. People DC to avoid feeling like they lost.
If your wife has a heart attack that's an emergency and a legit reason to DC.
If you have lag or you're getting less than optimal framerate, sorry that's not a legit reason to DC.
You are defending people that don't want to lose. No other way to say it. They do it to ease their egos. Saying "well lag" or "muh performance" is a cop out honestly. ######### happens. Take an L.
-
@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296743#Comment_1296743
If their framerate tanked, then how could they keep playing? It'd be too difficult to play since they aint used to it, so it's best to leave the match and sort out the issue.
Aside from reasons like that, people who DC are horrible.
Still not a reason to DC. Go AFK or at least do your best. The only technical issue where it's acceptable to DC is if your PC/Xbox/PS is on fire.
-
@GoodBoyKaru said:
I have sympathy for someone if they explain their reasoning in post-game chat; for example I had a killer a while back dc because they were testing a new monitor and their framerate tanked. Also had people disconnect because their ping was too high for too long (killers and survivors). They stayed around till the end to explain then stopped playing for the immidiate future.
But if you disconnect because you're angry, or because you got rofl stomped, then I lose all sympathy for you. Some people have reasons to disconnect, you don't.
Sorry not a valid excuse. Unless it's an actual emergency like your kid just cut their finger off, take the L. It sucks when ######### like that happens but it's not enough to validate a DC. Just do what you can, play out the match, and accept that you lost. It's cowardly to back out of a game like that.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296322#Comment_1296322
I take Protection Hits when it helps my TEAM. And not when the Killer picks up the Survivor 1 meter away from a Hook just to get a Stack.
What kind of WGLF gamer are you?
-
Blendette, Spine Chill, Self Care, Calm Spirit, Distortion, key.
Calm Spirit/Distortion hides you from pretty much every tracking perk/ability other than Killer Instinct/Whispers.
Spine Chill counters stealth killers and gives you early warning to hide.
Self Care to stay healthy so you don't leave blood. You're not gonna be doing gens anyway.
Blendette because she is by far the best stealth survivor.
Key so that you don't even need to do gens and just play for hatch.
-
@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1296253#Comment_1296253
The directional audio cue was too much,that's obvious.
But adding something like glowing shards or something else would actually give spirit even more mindgame potential.
For example:
If the survivor drops a pallet you could use your power,making the survivor think you would go around,but just stand still and make him vault into you.
"More mind game potential" by giving the other player more information? No it doesn't work that way.
If you give her power a tell you REMOVE mind game potential. It doesn't matter if she can stand still in phase, the survivor knows she is phasing and can't see her. All you do is force her to potentially waste her power in order to feign her power, WHICH as proven by loading screen tips is supposed to be a thing by just standing still (in other words by design). Removing that will quantitatively hurt her.
-
@GrannyonAcid said:
I know he's not the biggest of streamers... But Marth is probably the best. Could also be because he doesn't play very often anymore. Tofu is up there as well. Otz I never watch stream but I do watch his youtube videos and they're entertaining. Tru3 is really not good. I do put him on sometimes but usually have to dip out when he whines too much.
I lost respect for Marth after that whole Space eSports debacle. Dude makes assumptions about the rules, BRO YOU ARE NOT A TOURNAMENT OFFICIAL! Anyone that's ever played in gaming tournaments know you just play it out even if the rules say you don't have to EXACTLY for the reasons that ######### him over in that tournament... because sometimes ######### happens then TO's have to make a ruling post match. I ran tournaments for almost 10 years, it happens more than you think, especially with rules that are super fuzzy/unclear like the hatch rule.
Tofu is good. The only thing that bugs me about him is he says LITERALLY all the time. It also seems like he gets potatoes survivors a lot. I don't want to say he cherry picks games, but it kinda seems that way.
-
@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1295208#Comment_1295208
I would say that it's only a problem with spirit because there isn't much information about her power in a chase.
Adding a subtle sign that shows when she's using her power would provide survivors much more information/interaction to work with while giving the spirit more mindgame opportunities.
It would also completely kill her power.
Remember in the PTB where the whoosh was directional? Yea she was awful.
If you know when she is phasing that completely defeats the purpose of her power. Try it. Play a KYF game and tell your friend every time you phase. Watch how much of a difference it makes.
-
@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1295429#Comment_1295429
On console, you cannot quickscope like you can on PC. And I am not talking in terms of Quickscoping. I talk about all slowdowns, and the fact that each of these do that.
Survivors can move to the left or right and put objects in between them and the killer. Even if you move backwards in some cases.
This can happen very quickly if the above situation happens, or if survivors abuse the hitboxes of objects.
Yes there is. You can make them miss shots a lot. The hitbox is very small.
The TR means nothing if people are using their eyes. Most people notice me coming regardless, and I notice them coming if I am a survivor in this case.
Maybe this is from my experience on console (Xbox specifically), which is very different to PC, but he is not nearly as strong as people say he is. It is the same case with Nurse, Spirit, and Huntress.
"On console, you cannot quickscope like you can on PC. And I am not talking in terms of Quickscoping. I talk about all slowdowns, and the fact that each of these do that."
I'm on Xbox. You indeed can pop shot just fine. Every rank 1 Deathslinger I face will popshot. They don't sit there hard aiming unless it's a distance and the survivor is doing something where they can't move like unhooking or repairing.
"Survivors can move to the left or right and put objects in between them and the killer. Even if you move backwards in some cases."
There are no object you can wiggle to that will stop the hit. All Deathslinger has to do is walk backwards and pull you away from objects. You are seriously overestimating the ability of a survivor to control their movement when speared.
"Yes there is. You can make them miss shots a lot. The hitbox is very small."
I rarely see a rank 1 Deathslinger miss a shot. Only when you are running through corn is there a good chance he will miss.
"The TR means nothing if people are using their eyes. Most people notice me coming regardless, and I notice them coming if I am a survivor in this case."
Can't do this if the gen is inside a building or jungle gym. And if it's not that's actually even worse with the amount of dead space where you have to avoid getting shot. LOS works both ways and if Deathslinger has LOS on you that's generally a bad thing.
"Maybe this is from my experience on console (Xbox specifically), which is very different to PC, but he is not nearly as strong as people say he is. It is the same case with Nurse, Spirit, and Huntress."
I'm on Xbox. You obviously haven't played against good Deathslingers, or Nurse or Huntress. Play against someone that put time into these characters and they are definitely just as good as they are on PC. Nurse and Huntress are notoriously more difficult which turns off a lot of people and therefore there are way less people that are good with them on Xbox. But they exist. I was a very solid Huntress for a time but I haven't played her much since Spirit came out. I'm also a very solid Nurse but again I don't play her all the time so my skills are rusty. If I could I'd give you the name of one of the top Xbox Nurse players and have you 1v1 him, I guarantee you will last all of 10 seconds in a chase with him.
Deathslinger is nowhere near as difficult as Nurse or Huntress to learn. If you play COD you can play Deathslinger. He can pop shot which is very easy to learn. Anyone with decent aim will be a good Deathslinger even on Xbox. Unlike Huntress there is little learning you need to do for his power. The smaller hitbox works in his favor since it means you won't hit air boxes as much as with Huntress, and again pop shots, where for Huntress you need to learn wind up time. You also need to learn when the best times to reload are, how to track survivors (which is harder because of lullaby), and how to conserve hatchets. Deathslinger doesn't require any of that. He can reload at any time very quickly, he has a smaller TR (with bonus small size due to custom music) which makes it easy to sneak up on survivors, and he doesn't need to conserve shots because he has infinite reloads.
I know some of the BEST survivors on Xbox and most of them agree Deathslinger is busted. These are survivors that can run a killer for 5 gens consistently at rank 1. I doubt you have played against actual good Deathslingers because if you did you'd see everything about what I'm talking about.
-
@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1295165#Comment_1295165
Well, a 6000 hour player can describe why he is broken, not just that he is. If you have the experience, then you should demonstrate this, not just claim that you have it and say that is the one and only truth.
Why do I say Deathslinger isnt that strong?
Most loops have high walls, making his ability nearly worthless. On top of that, a lot of the low wall loops have hidden hitboxes, making them unreliable as well. Not to mention there are times where the spear goes through the models because of latency. He is also weaker because of how many pure slowdowns there are built into his character:
- Aim Down Sights. (slows movement speed and aim speed)
- Shooting. (slows movement speed and aim speed)
- Reeling in. (Slows movement speed)
- Breaking the chain (5 second stun)
- Missing a shot (Slows movement speed and aim speed)
- Reloading (Slows movement speed)
- Has a slower movement speed than most, and his power does not make up for it.
All of these make him weaker. That, plus he has no map pressure element to his kit, and is reliant on his gun.
"Aim Down Sights. (slows movement speed and aim speed)/Shooting. (slows movement speed and aim speed)"
Why are you hard aiming with Deathslinger? Just pop shot. No slow down, all the benefits. Click BOOM speared. Have you not played COD?
"Reeling in. (Slows movement speed)"
Except that you can't move to take advantage of this LOL. He pulls you with him. Out of position and away from the loop to make a follow up easy.
"Breaking the chain (5 second stun)"
Except this doesn't happen unless he wants it to happen. At majority of the loops in the game, if he spears you he is gonna get the hit. And if you were healthy, this is good for him because he doesn't need to hit you which expands his options in other places to get you injured.
"Missing a shot (Slows movement speed and aim speed)"
As survivor there is little to no way to make him miss his shot. The only way he misses is if he sucks, which is completely beyond your control as a survivor.
"Reloading (Slows movement speed)"
Barely. And with stacked add-ons he might as well be given a machine gun.
"Has a slower movement speed than most, and his power does not make up for it."
Dude it totally does. First his TR is deceptively small. They say it's 24m but with the custom music and changes in volume at the same range compared to a normal heartbeat, it's basically a 16m TR. Throw on M&A and he can get PLENTY close to you before you know it. Also again, when he spears you he can pull you out of position negating the slower movement speed. And he can use his power at almost any loop to guarantee a hit without having to actually do the loop. He just pop shots you as he turns the corner, pulls you far away from the loop, hits you, now you either have to run to the same loop where he will just do the same thing or take the chance running to another tile, which he will likely spear you before you get there ESPECIALLY if he has reload add-ons.
Like, bro, do you play survivor against this guy? If you did you'd see how little you can actually do in a chase against him. It's very much an old Legion feel where there's just this timer on the chase and you are basically just some NPC bot because you can't do anything to get away from him or extended the chase.
-
Any time a survivor gets hit and glows white it meant they had the Endurance status effect which let's them sponge a hit while injured. In most cases, this means they were given Borrowed Time and you will see an orange meter below their survivor icon, which is Deep Wounds. They have a certain amount of time to mend from Deep Wounds or they go into dying state, but the DW meter pauses when they are running or mending. Killers don't see DW meter go down, they just see that this survivor has the effect on them.
Other ways it can happen:
Medkit with Styptic Agent add-on. Considered "BT in a bottle". Basically the same effects as BT but done from an item instead of a perk.
Mettle Of Man. This doesn't put the survivor into Deep Wounds. They just sponge the hit.
Legion/Deathslinger powers apply Deep Wounds (no glow but you see the orange meter).
-
Bond, Adren, Sprint Burst/Balanced, Spine Chill
I'm a survivor main and I would say this is a good build.
Bond will help you to find other survivors to heal or as a means to avoid them when you get chased/they get chased.
Adren is one of the strongest perks in the game.
Sprint Burst is a good perk, probably the weakest of your picks though since you will be forced to walk everywhere unless you do the 99 trick.
Spine Chill is low key probably top 3 survivors perks in the game. It completely nullifies stealth killer tactics and gives you an early warning if the killer is headed in your direction. It can also give you info. For example, if you are healing somewhere hidden and not near a gen/door/totem, if it lights up and stays lit then the killer sees you with Nurse's and you should move. It also makes your vaults slightly faster which can help slightly in a chase, and it makes actions faster when the killer is looking at you. When you need to finish a gen or totem a second sooner that makes a BIG difference sometimes.
Balanced is still a great perk even after the nerf but it's probably the most skill based of all the exhaustion perks because it requires good map knowledge and pathing. Some maps you can't even really use it, but on maps where you can then you can get really long chases because most of the drop down points force the killer into a super long path to follow you. The only really bad maps for it are Family Residence, Lery's, Shelter Woods (by far the absolute worst), and Autohaven maps. Most maps have good drop down points.
-
@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1295344#Comment_1295344
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1295349#Comment_1295349
I didn't know you didn't lose stacks when you revved your Chainsaw.
You're insured 1 Stack of PWYF whenever you're stunned, I get that but do you go for the current Obsession and down them, or change targets? That's what I don't understand. I guess I'll play around with it to get a better feel for it.
It depends. If you can afford to chase for more stacks you do it. Once you have 3 stacks there is no looping you. I used PWYF a while ago on an old Freddy build centered around old Dying Light and catching the obsession super fast. I felt it was a REALLY strong perk back then, and the only reason it wasn't meta was because there was no way to change the obsession. Now we have several ways to do that, Nemesis being the best pick, so it's super easy to get PWYF stacks. And when a Bubba with 3 PWYF stacks comes at you with his chainsaw you are going down. There's not outrunning it or spinning it. It's too fast.
-
Fungoose and Umbra are I think two of the best I've seen.
Otz and True are good but they make dumb mistakes sometimes or don't know what a perk or something does. Like you have 6k hours how do you NOT have every perk/item/add-on description memorized? (This is more True than Otz).
Monto I'm pretty sure cherry picks his games. He also plays really scummy as killer, where I've seen other killers perform better than him and play fair, which takes a lot more skill. Not saying there is something WRONG with playing scummy, just that it takes less skill at the end of the day.
Zubat is good but he also plays a bit scummy. He has a complete IDGAF attitude, which again is fine, just I see Fungoose/Umbra rarely play that scummy and do as good or better than he does.
Nothing against any of these people BTW. I watch them all. But Fungoose/Umbra I think are the most skilled killers. The fact that Fungoose can play AND explain everything a mile a minute, oh boi does that take a lot of skill in an of itself, then he goes on to consistently 4k as Freddy with no add-ons and no slowdown other than Pop. That's skill man.
-
@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1295327#Comment_1295327
I noticed them claiming you slugged, and 3 of them had DS. That's the price they pay for having it, and I'm an Avid DS Supporter. It's the price we pay for using the perk and I'm glad to see more killers slugging.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1295335#Comment_1295335
May I ask, why is it strong? Stunned at pallet, stunner becomes Obsession then what? Ignore the Obsession and go for someone else?
PWYF is a very strong perk. It increases both map pressure and chase potential. Bubba can also fully charge his saw and NOT lose stacks, meaning he can bait pallet drops and such. PWYF also makes his chainsaw movement faster. He only loses stacks when he actually uses his chainsaw.
My friend @ill_Boston_lli plays this build all the time and it's ridiculously strong. You disrespect every pallet, force drops, get stunned, and it's instantly 1 stack of PWYF. If he wants more he can just follow a bit and suck up a few stacks before moving on to someone else. The only way to beat it is to drop pallets early, force him to kick it (because using the chainsaw would lose stacks), and then if you are the obsession you avoid him at all costs.
-
PWYF/Nemesis Bubba is really strong, not gonna lie.
But I find nothing wrong with it. Just drop pallets early, he can't chainsaw them or he loses tokens. Alternatively don't drop pallets if it looks like you might get hit, just take the hit and run off. He's betting on you dropping the pallet whether he gets a hit or not.
-
Trapper gives me PTSD. I will be checking windows and tall grass for the next few games even if it's something like a Clown.
Nurse is scary only because if it's someone I know to be a good Nurse then we all gonna die.
-
@EmpireWinner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1294342#Comment_1294342
Yeah, those plays are best if they were used on an incompetente spirit. All other killers show when they're using their power except her. The only real counter she has is iron will, otherwise you're dead when it comes to an average sprit player. She's a braindead killer at most.
People use this "incompetent Spirit" argument a lot.
Fact is, if the killer is good it doesn't matter what killer they pick, they will catch you quickly. Good Nurse, Freddy, Billy, and Huntress players have super short chases. Hell even really good Clowns or Bubbas can catch people really fast.
So to say that "you can only run from a bad Spirit" can be applied to literally any killer. Any "good" killer will catch you crazy fast. But it only seems to be a problem if it's a Spirit though.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
-
I find Deathslinger potentially broken at the moment.
If he spears you there is nothing you can do to avoid the hit. The only times I don't get hit are 1) I get lucky he spears me at a bad spot and there is something in the way to break the chain, or 2) another player body blocks, neither of which are in your control as survivor.
"BuT hUnTrEsS hAtChEtS jUsT dAmAgE yOu It'S tHe SaMe ThInG"
No it isn't. Huntress hatchets do not PULL YOU OUT OF POSITION. They also cannot be thrown through the tiniest cracks in walls. They ALSO cannot be thrown instantly even with both Babushka and Braid. They ALSO require her to break chase to reload. They ALSO don't work with Exposed or literally any "basic attack" text like STBFL.
It's just excessively lame to get shot by Deathslinger and there is nothing you can do about it. And at some loops, you will get shot and there is no avoiding it unless the guy has bad aim, which is again outside your control (relying on your opponent to mess up is bad design). It feels very much like old Legion where the chase is very scripted. It's dumb.
I'm all for buffing Deathslinger IF they make it so that you have more control when you get speared so that there's stuff you can do to avoid getting hit in all but the absolute worst positions.
Also his terror radius is completely #########. They say it's 24m, more like 16m and when every Deathslinger uses M&A it's basically 8m. Him, Doc, and Oni need BHVR's audio engineer to re-evaluate the decibels of their TR at max range. They all seem to have -6m because of their custom TR music and it's only going to become a bigger problem moving forward. Demo too but his isn't as bad. Myers is fine.
-
99 times out of 100 it means "this killer frustrates me" but instead of saying that they call it "boring".
Boring is when you aren't engaged and feel like falling asleep. Going to church is boring. Doing your taxes is boring.
Frustrating is when you are engaged but you just don't enjoy it. It's frustrating to be in a losing game, or playing against someone that uses a tactic you don't find fun.
The only time you can legit say "this killer is boring" is if they don't do anything. They go AFK, or facecamp a survivor as Bubba in the basement. THAT is boring because there is no engagement. But to say "Forever Freddy/Spirit/whatever tactic" is boring is a cop out in my opinion.
I hate Doc. With a passion. If I could I would delete his ass from the game. But I never say "Doc is boring" because that's untrue. He is FRUSTRATING, but unless the Doc goes AFK I'm not actually bored.
-
@metalklok said:
if the hatch is open its just whoever gets to it first
It's supposed to be this way but it's not.
If the survivor is standing on the hatch it should block the close hatch prompt. I've been robbed of hatch escapes even when I got there a full second first because hatch close animation cancels the hatch jump animation. It's seriously dumb.
-
@Ghostwithaface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1294413#Comment_1294413
Well i never said it was efficient. I was just bringing up the fact, survivors can make a choice if they so desire related to perks. Which is why i use the term give up a perk slot, since there are countless others perk one could run. That might benefit them more in escaping.
Which i also never said a thing about white ward or Leatherface one perk. I think you are just debating yourself there. Since i never brought up that point.
I was making the point that you are purposely handicapping yourself with 1 less perk if you want to keep your add-ons, and even then it's not guaranteed if you die or the killer has Frankie's.
-
@Ghostwithaface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1294000#Comment_1294000
Well survivors can keep their add on after escaping, if they are running ace in the hole perk. So survivors do still have a choice of giving up a perk slot in order to keep their add on. That or enter a game running plunders and ace in the hole, hoping to loot something good and be able to escape with it.
Because running AITH when you already have an item is so efficient right? Sacrificing a perk slot to keep add-ons you should have kept anyway if you escape is dumb. At least if you bring WGLF you actually get something of value from it.
Oh yea and even if you bring a White Ward you lose your add-ons if you escape, and you lose your item if the killer knocks it out of your hands with Frankie's. Because it's fair that a perk overrides an offering.
-
@Booper_Of_Snoot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1294196#Comment_1294196
There are what, 20 killers? If you play even half, it is WAY more costly then 1 survivor like most survivors play
Most survivors actually play multiple survivors. I main survivor and of all my friends that I play SWF with, I am literally the only one that plays one survivor almost all the time. And even then I still play several other survivors from time to time.
Plus it doesn't change the fact that if you dump BP into one killer that you have an infinite supply of every add-on. If you main killer you can easily play 2 games, dump the BP from half of one back into them and get your add-ons back then use the other 1.5 to level up another killer.
Again killers have 3 times LESS stuff in their bloodwebs. Even if I play 1 survivor and dump all my BP into them, I have way less of a chance to get the items I want. I could easily plow through 6 or 7 webs before I see a Wedding Ring. I get either MDR or Amulet (or both) at minimum once every other bloodweb. Usually I get more than 1 of each for each bloodweb. I have like 3 Prayer Bead Bracelets sitting in my current web.
I have 30 MDR and Amulets on Spirit. I have about 20 Black Wards. I don't need to dump BP into her for a solid 80 games. Umbra has no joke like 1200 Iri Heads. But yea sure, it's more costly to play killer. SMH
-
Ruh-roh!
-
@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1293969#Comment_1293969
What? No, I don't think killers give a damn.
I can have a totally mediocre game as killer and walk away with 50,000BP - and that's assuming no BP offerings. A survivor having a decent game is liable to walk away with 15,000 sometimes. Not to mention that survivors have to pick an actual item to even get the add-ons on top of it.
The BP economy is the last thing I'm complaining about as a killer, honestly.
I was pointing out the common argument from killer mains, which is completely invalid because while you lose add-ons as killer you can EASILY replenish them every game and then some where this is impossible for survivors.
In other words, the BP economy is not at all equal and heavily favors killers. Therefore survivors should not lose add-ons if they escape with their item and it has charges remaining.
-
@Booper_Of_Snoot said:
Add ons should be lost after dying or escaping, just like killer add ons are lost.
Its more costly as survivor, but you accept that when you play survivor.
The system is fine.
"More costly" is a vast understatement.
As killer I can dump BP from each game back into a killer and get all the add-ons I used back and then some. This is IMPOSSIBLE as survivor, first because you earn way less BP on average and second because you have more than triple the number of objects that can spawn.
The system is not fine.
-
It's a bug. It gives any Legion Julie's animations. They still sound like themselves though.
-
I've made these points before but killer mains will be like "bUt We DoNt GeT tO kEeP oUr AdDoNs".
Killers have 20 add-ons, and 1 less offering than survivors. Survivors have 18 items and 55 add-ons, for a total of 73 objects in a Bloodweb. As Spirit, I get MDR and Amulet at LEAST once each per web. I could, in theory, dump all the BP I earned as killer back into Spirit and play with these 2 add-ons indefinitely. You cannot do this as survivor.
Killers can also more consistently earn more bloodpoints per game than survivors AND they have BBQ to double point earnings which is ALSO a top tier tracking perk. WGLF is purely for bloodpoints, does not offer any other benefit, and it is a LOT harder to get 4 safe rescues/protection hit per game than 1 hook on each player.
As killer I can earn 1 million BP in about 6 hours of playing. It would take me more than double that time as survivor to get 1 million BP.
I completely agree with you this change was unnecessary. If anything, I would make it so that if the item has charges remaining when you escape you keep your add-ons. If the item was spent then you lose the add-ons. And if you escape through the hatch you only keep the add-ons if the item had 100% of the charges remaining. This would make it a lot more fair for survivors. It really was a bad change.
-
@MigrantTheGreat said:
Thantaphobia is only a good a perk if you can keep both good map and chase pressure
Thana + Sloppy is a very strong combo. It puts survivors in a catch 22. Either they waste time healing, or they take longer to do gens.
-
@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1292405#Comment_1292405
If i made a post claming there a toxic swf who told me to ######### then i would hide names
but they didnt do anything wrong so theres no need too
It's still against forum rules.
-
You're supposed to block other player's name if you post pictures on the forums. Just FYI.
-
@Nurgling7 said:
Make Spirit players be forced to use only the one thing that gets ######### every patch?
LOL no
Yea this exactly. Sounds are so messed up right now, survivors can become 100% silent even when you have Stridor. I've see it happen from both killer and survivor POV. It's dumb to force her to solely rely on either mechanic because neither is consistent or function most of the time.
-
@Nazeef13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1291192#Comment_1291192
Spirit is not op. She is skilless.
Every "refute" you made was addressed in his second video to tru, except for 2.
1. Windows- most tiles only have 1, so it's not hard to listen for a fast vault and go around with your 200% phase speed. Also most good spirits are able to use their power before you've even gotten there. The exception to this is gens in L-WALL T-WALLS. Those do counter her due to 2 windows, unless you are injured.
2. Leading the chase. "Uhh what? Do you play killer? Survivors definitely control the pace of the match. And if you meant pace of the CHASE then still, the survivor controls it as they are the one leading the killer. "
Do you even play this game? Lol. It is common knowledge that the killer controls the pace and direction of game as the power role. I'm pretty sure the devs have written this out as well. Take cow tree for example. Killer literally just has to turn and run it the other way to make sure you cant fast vault anymore. Found at a L-WALL twall? I'll just phase to another survivor in a deadzone.
Survivors can give information to make the killer think that going one way might be more beneficial than the other, but the killer decides the pace.
You keep saying the spirit should be baited but you are ignoring that 1. She can hear and pinpoint you. And 2. That requires 2 correct guesses of the exact moment she starts phasing, and which direction she is going. Then you have to do it a few seconds later. I've already refuted this several times, and timed stamped to Scott's detailed rebuttal of this point. The fact you keep bringing baiting up means you are ignoring Scott's video. "I've acknowledge the points he made that you keep reiterating, so IDK how I'm "ignoring" these points." No. No you haven't. And yes you are.
Going to another tile. Addressed by Scott already. You didn't watch the video I guess. Pointless discussion, as ive said, most of what you said has already been addressed in great detail and you are just ignoring it.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MXO011BK0ZUW/screenshot-20200521-112340.jpg
So far, you tips on using windows has been proven situational. Your tip on controlling the chase has been refuted. You going to another loop has been shown a bad guess in Scott's video.
"Furthermore, Spirit from a year ago is different than Spirit today. A year ago any low tier Spirit could put on PB/Amulet and have a massive advantage every game. Now not so much. Removing collision did make a big difference as you can now backtrack more effectively. Removing the vault meant that windows became stronger against her. It all makes a big difference."
Wow. It'd be a real shame if a content creator had an entire video on if spirit's design flaws were actually fixed. https://youtu.be/WidMkOYhBZ8
Also, if you're close enough to collide, she's already heard you and you've already lost. Back tracking is not an option. Walking and running can be heard. The only situational benefit from this is if you are full health, you can stand still and the lack of audio will throw spirit off when she phases through you. This also assumes she does not stop phasing where you were last seen and heard.
The spirit changes didn't take away the guessing games or her ability to pinpoint survivors in phase. They just made her mobility worse which was never a problem.
I'm devotion 8 and I started 1 month before spirit was released. I've spent a lot of time between sep 18, and Nov 19 going against spirits. It is near impossible to run a mediocre spirit with good hearing and headphones once you get injured the first time.
"Run to areas where there is some loud ass noise? Seems pretty obvious honestly."
Any mid range $50 headphones is good at isolating the mids and highs of survivors moaning from the lows of chase music, fire pits, skill checks. If you can hear it you might not have a good sense of hearing or haven't played her enough to get used to it.
Like ive said, I've been able to pinpoint a moaning claudette behind a fire pit hidden in the junk of a jungle gym while endgame music and bells were playing. And I've been in situations where I've tried to use firepits to throw off spirits with firepits, the loud center of lerry's. It doesn't work unless they have bad hearing like you. There is no counter to a spirit with good hearing/headphones. Your points are moot, since you don't have good hearing.
Lastly, since I've just proven to you that you clearly don't have the comprehension ability to understand Scott's video, or are choosing to ignore it, I'd rather not continue this discussion.
I only want to ask you one question, that I asked @CLAUDETTEINABUSH . What would happen to spirit if she was deafened during phase?
If you think it would make her f-tier like Claudetteinabush did, then that is just proof how headphone/hearing dependent spirit is in pinpointing survivors for grudge hits, and any counter tip ever provided by anyone is moot if you are injured.
If you don't think it matters, let's deafen her. Please. Feel free to test out a game with her volume muted. I've only been able to 1k with no volume through m1 hits. Only got 3 grudge hits with volume off. Scratch marks, which is what she is actually supposed to be using to track are actually difficult to use and actually require some amount of skill to land a post phase hit. Audio cues are almost as easy as being able to see survivors.
"1. Windows- most tiles only have 1, so it's not hard to listen for a fast vault and go around with your 200% phase speed. Also most good spirits are able to use their power before you've even gotten there. The exception to this is gens in L-WALL T-WALLS. Those do counter her due to 2 windows, unless you are injured."
Most windows she won't have enough power left to go around the tile and meet you on the other side of the window if she is following you from another tile. It doesn't matter if she knows where you went if she comes out of phase halfway around the window while you are still running to the NEXT NEXT tile nows shes a 110 killer for 15 seconds and won't catch up.
"Do you even play this game? Lol. It is common knowledge that the killer controls the pace and direction of game as the power role. I'm pretty sure the devs have written this out as well. Take cow tree for example. Killer literally just has to turn and run it the other way to make sure you cant fast vault anymore. Found at a L-WALL twall? I'll just phase to another survivor in a deadzone."
By this statement it's obvious you don't play much killer. Survivors lead the chase, the killer doesn't have a lot of control over it. There are exceptions, such as Huntress being able to force a survivor to not use a particular window or take a particular path by raising a hatchet, but she still doesn't control what the survivor does. She influences it and those are two very different things. Killer can sort of determine the direction to run the loop by they don't control what loop the survivor will run to or what the survivor will do at the loop.
"You keep saying the spirit should be baited but you are ignoring that 1. She can hear and pinpoint you. And 2. That requires 2 correct guesses of the exact moment she starts phasing, and which direction she is going."
Hearing you and reacting to hearing you are different things. She might hear you run past her but unless she reacts IMMEDIATELY (best human reaction time is 0.25 seconds BTW) it really doesn't matter. You're goal when baiting isn't to necessarily completely escape the chase, it's to make her waste her power going the wrong direction even for a second.
Also you don't need to guess anything. You are baiting her, in other words providing inaccurate or false information. If you have a clear path to a window or pallet and can make it before she could have phased after you from the point where she stops then it doesn't matter what she does, you make the window/pallet. If she tries to go around she is going to waste her power, and if you keep running to yet another tile you gain distance on her. What she does is irrelevant and therefore you don't need to guess anything.
"So far, you tips on using windows has been proven situational. Your tip on controlling the chase has been refuted. You going to another loop has been shown a bad guess in Scott's video."
Literally any tip in this game is situational. There are so many things that factor into a chase and you can't account for all of them.
And going to a new loop is not a guess. She stops, that's your chance to bolt. There's no guessing. Like I said she is doing one of 3 things, and unless she predicts you will run or reacts the instant you run you are going to gain distance running to the next loop.
Scott also did this on Autohaven which has few windows and a lot of dead zones. Running from tile to tile is less effective on that map period.
"Wow. It'd be a real shame if a content creator had an entire video on if spirit's design flaws were actually fixed."
Which I refuted all the points you've brought up SMH. Stop using his videos as gospel. You say you aren't but you are. You point to them as proof of something when I've pointed out the flaws in his points.
"Any mid range $50 headphones is good at isolating the mids and highs of survivors moaning from the lows of chase music, fire pits, skill checks. If you can hear it you might not have a good sense of hearing or haven't played her enough to get used to it. Like ive said, I've been able to pinpoint a moaning claudette behind a fire pit hidden in the junk of a jungle gym while endgame music and bells were playing. And I've been in situations where I've tried to use firepits to throw off spirits with firepits, the loud center of lerry's. It doesn't work unless they have bad hearing like you. There is no counter to a spirit with good hearing/headphones. Your points are moot, since you don't have good hearing."
Dude I have $300 Astro a50's. They are a wireless version of the a40's which are used by professional gamers. Yet there are still times where it's hard to hear a survivor over chase music or the sound of a running gen. MOST of the time yes I can hear them just fine, but if they vault a window it doesn't matter that I know where they are I can't always make it around the window to catch them.
"What would happen to spirit if she was deafened during phase?"
She would be a lot less fun and more frustrating to play. Why is this even an option? Yea sure, let's purposely make a killer feel like crap to play. That's a viable solution.
Scratch marks are too inconsistent to be the sole tracking method. Every killer tracks by sound, she just does it while invisible. I jump scare people all the time as Ghostface because I can hear them crying in pain. Should we deafening him in NS too? it makes no sense.
Fact is you can run from a good Spirit. It's challenging, but not impossible with some basic skills. You keep pointing to Scott's videos as proof of anything, like Scott can't ever be wrong or something. I've shown you how his argument is flawed. COME UP WITH YOUR OWN POINTS HERE!
Since her update, the amount of complaints about Spirit have dropped SIGNIFICANTLY which as I said was because bad players couldn't abuse PB/Amulet anymore. That was what actually made her over perform. Only rarely does this conversation even still come up mainly because certain people keep pushing it when it's a non-issue. They just have a bias towards Spirit and want to see her nerfed into the ground.
-
I agree, even on console Nurse is the best. It's just rare to run across someone that has actually put in the time to master her. I'm friends with 3 players that are Nurse mains on Xbox that would prove this.
Right now the thing that actually holds he back are bugs and dead zones. I feel like Sanctum is one of the worst, it feels like the entire center piece is just one big dead zone. If they could fix this stuff she would feel a lot better and I'd probably play her more at rank 1.
-
@Nazeef13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1291096#Comment_1291096
Just because there are too options doesn't mean they are equally likely to occur. Phase is obviously going to be favoring spirit, and it should.
No responses of headphone usage or counters while being injured.
Theory crafting while not going to the extent of multiple outcomes as some by Scott.
Spirit will just hear you playing proactively..
Conditioning goes both ways, if you want to keep that as a valid argument, which it is not because mindgaming requires switching things up.
The killer controls the pace of the match and as the power role has a better ability to control the situation. No matter how hard a survivor tries, the game is designed that if the killer wants to put you in an unfavorable situation, it will happen eventually.
His word is not gospel but it is the best formated address of repeated "counters" to spirit. Everything you have said in this thread, he has already addressed and debunked 1 year ago. And the best you can do to rebuttal is to say "play proactively".
He knows a lot more about the game than you, is a better player than you, and had likely had played as spirit and against spirit more than you. He has more expertise on this topic then you do, and your posts shows that you are just ignoring or can't comprehend his points, or are lying about watching his vids.
I'm not going to sit hear and write a 20 page thesis on how to beat Spirit dude. It's pretty simple; bait and run to the next tile (windows if possible). It's that simple. Don't try to guess what she does, hell don't even care what she does. You just want to do what you can do to gain the most distance and put something between you, hence you run for windows as most will prevent her from both following you and cutting you off.
"Just because there are too options doesn't mean they are equally likely to occur. Phase is obviously going to be favoring spirit, and it should."
There are only so many VALID options she has. To put it bluntly, she can stand still and wait, phase and follow, or phase and cut you off. Depending on the situation there might be other viable options, but ultimately it would boil down to those 3.
"No responses of headphone usage or counters while being injured."
Run to areas where there is some loud ass noise? Seems pretty obvious honestly. And again it doesn't matter what she does if you have a clear path to a window on the next tile you can almost 100% make because you gained distance from the time she charged phase, and from her taking a moment to realize what you did. Plus as I said chase music tends to drown out survivor noises for the initial phasing time which is when you want to bait her and the run to the next tile.
"Conditioning goes both ways, if you want to keep that as a valid argument, which it is not because mindgaming requires switching things up."
I didn't call it conditioning. I called it learning a pattern. You can learn what a killer is most likely to do pretty quickly. You just need enough information to throw them a curveball. And yes they can do the same to you, but since you are the one leading the chase you actually have more control in the situation.
"The killer controls the pace of the match and as the power role has a better ability to control the situation."
Uhh what? Do you play killer? Survivors definitely control the pace of the match. And if you meant pace of the CHASE then still, the survivor controls it as they are the one leading the killer. The killer can't make the survivor do things in most situations, they have to wait for mistakes and capitalize on them. Or creating opportunities for mistakes (eg. do mindgame). But to say the killer controls the chase is false. They are reactive to what the survivor does. Only in specific instances where a hit is imminent can they exert some control over the survivor.
"No matter how hard a survivor tries, the game is designed that if the killer wants to put you in an unfavorable situation, it will happen eventually."
Eventually is a vague term. If it means 20 seconds, then the killer is going to do well. If it means 2 minutes then not so much.
"His word is not gospel but it is the best formated address of repeated "counters" to spirit. Everything you have said in this thread, he has already addressed and debunked 1 year ago. And the best you can do to rebuttal is to say "play proactively"."
It hasn't actually. He makes the assumption that the survivor is both trying to guess what the Spirit is doing and that the survivor will stay on the tile. Those don't need to be things. I even point out the flaws in his arguments during this conversation.
Furthermore, Spirit from a year ago is different than Spirit today. A year ago any low tier Spirit could put on PB/Amulet and have a massive advantage every game. Now not so much. Removing collision did make a big difference as you can now backtrack more effectively. Removing the vault meant that windows became stronger against her. It all makes a big difference.
"He knows a lot more about the game than you, is a better player than you, and had likely had played as spirit and against spirit more than you. He has more expertise on this topic then you do, and your posts shows that you are just ignoring or can't comprehend his points, or are lying about watching his vids."
Okay now the conversation has gone off the rails into fanboy territory. You haven't seen me played or played against me. He does have more time played but after a point this doesn't actually matter. I have 3k hours, after about 1000 hours players should be well versed in the game to have valid points. After that it's just diminishing returns. Not to mention I play with several players that indeed have more playtime than him. In his most recent video he is devotion 9. I'm devotion 8. That means since the introduction of devotion he has about 250 more hours on me. That's nothing in the grand scheme of things. Plus I know players on Xbox with devotion 23. The person I play with most often is devotion 17 or something. WAY WAY more time than Scott. Does that make their opinions more valid than his? No it doesn't.
I've acknowledge the points he made that you keep reiterating, so IDK how I'm "ignoring" these points. Again I'm not going to sit here and dissect all his videos in text format on a forum barely anyone reads (let's be honest).
This entire last statement just proves you are parroting what he says and don't care to acknowledge the OTHER side. I've acknowledged his side and refuted some of the things he said. To take it a step further, his entire video with him against Zubat to prove his point is completely invalidated by the fact that no smart survivor is going to try to loop a Spirit, just like they won't loop a Nurse or Hag. The best thing to do is to bait them into a bad position and run to the next tile while you have the extra distance. This is the most effective tactic against these killers. His entire premise is flawed from the beginning, why you keep insisting to use it as the defacto truth that Spirit is unbalanced is beyond me.
-
@Nazeef13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1290967#Comment_1290967
Its not a 50/50 . https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=547 assuming you are not giving off audio cues, at max, if there spirit is deaf and ideal conditions it is a 75/25. As you have to make two correct guesses to "mind game". If you are injured, it's almost a 99/1 I'm spirits favor. There is no way to read spirit's phasing, and there is no way to not avoid ever being caught in a chase where spirit doesn't phase.
You counter tips are also just guessing. If you guess right, which is unlikely as already due to phasing obviously being in favor of spirit, you have to guess again in a few seconds. And you cannot deny information if the killer has headphones or you are injured. Even walking has audio.
As for vaulting from window to window, what do I do if there is no L-wall t-wall near me or I don't spawn on Lerry's. What do I do if I am injured and spirit pinpoints me on the L-wall really jukes. If you have any tips to counter spirit while injured I'd love to hear them.
Solo vs swf does not impact the 1v1 chase interaction which is being discussed.
Conditioning or "learning patterns" is a weak argument (time-stamped): https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=695 are you sure you watched his videos?
He had some bad games in the 2hr video, and they were still good examples of lack of counterplay.
"Spirit only has a finite number of things she can do while phasing, if you know what that is and the pick a tactic that would counter all or most of that the best you can outplay her consistently. Yes, sometimes it's a 50/50 and you just have to pick one and cross your fingers but those actual instances are rare."
Ha. You definitely did not watch the theory craft video. I'm not even sure why I waste my time here discussing this with you when every point you've made has already been countered and addressed in Scott's 4 videos on spirit https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=547 .
Do you have any counterpoints he did not address?
"By rare I mean that most survivors make stupid decisions. It's RARE to get a survivor that doesn't make stupid decision or use lame tricks to try and beat a Spirit. They use completely valid tactics that anyone can do but the problem is MOST survivors don't actually think about what they are doing. "
It's called guessing. There is no information to go off of. If good survivors are consistently being potatoes against mediocre spirits instead of consistently out playing her, more than a year after release, maybe there is a design flaw. Just a guess.
"Like really, if you see a Spirit standing still do a fake like you are going to run in one direction, change directions and bolt to another tile. " https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=547 . Requires perfectly guessing twice. Also assuming you are not injured and spirit has no headphones.
"when chase music is BLARING and there are other noises it's not all that hard to lose track of a slippery survivor." Chase ends in phase the music fades in phase. Do you even play spirit? Also I've been able to find the last survivor standing, with end game music blaring, while they were hiding behind a lit fire in a jungle gym Moaning sounds are that loud and clear.
Literally all the same critiques and useless counter arguments pre-rework when devs said spirit was over performing. And the collision, vault animation, and post phase speed changes didn't do much to address these design flaws.
"Its not a 50/50 . https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=547 assuming you are not giving off audio cues, at max, if there spirit is deaf and ideal conditions it is a 75/25. As you have to make two correct guesses to "mind game". If you are injured, it's almost a 99/1 I'm spirits favor. There is no way to read spirit's phasing, and there is no way to not avoid ever being caught in a chase where spirit doesn't phase."
It kind of is a 50/50 though because if she makes the wrong read OR you provide her with the wrong information (bait) then she wastes her power going the wrong way and won't have enough to come back around.
"You counter tips are also just guessing. If you guess right, which is unlikely as already due to phasing obviously being in favor of spirit, you have to guess again in a few seconds. And you cannot deny information if the killer has headphones or you are injured. Even walking has audio."
It's not guessing. If you see her stand still she is doing 1 of 2 things; standing still or phasing. If you assume she is doing BOTH then the appropriate counter options open up. And if you bait her to follow the wrong path for just 1 second and bolt to the next loop you aren't guessing you are making HER guess. You are just acting. You need to pick something and do it precisely and without hesitation. If you are trying to guess what she is doing instead of trying to bait her and just going for it you will get caught.
"Conditioning or "learning patterns" is a weak argument (time-stamped): https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=695 are you sure you watched his videos?"
1) Stop quoting this video like it's gospel. It's not.
2) You very much can learn patterns within the first few interactions of a chase. Does she respect the pallet? Did she try to fake phasing right away? Does she mindgame or just follow you? This is indeed enough information to make plays early on. Not to mention, she has about as much information about your behavior which you can use to your advantage. Was he greedy with the pallet or camped for a hit? Did he fake the window vault? Does he look behind himself? Conditioning takes time to do but learning basic patterns does not. And then trying to make predictions base on those patterns can be done. If he respected the pallet first time, but then disrepected if the second time, then he is adapting to what you do. So you mix it up and expect him to disrespect it the next time.
Like you know competitive rock-paper-scissors is a thing right? They usually do like best of 3/5/7, and within those VERY SHORT periods the experienced players can predict what you will do with reasonable accuracy. The more you play against each other the better that accuracy becomes.
"Ha. You definitely did not watch the theory craft video. I'm not even sure why I waste my time here discussing this with you when every point you've made has already been countered and addressed in Scott's 4 videos on spirit https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=547 . Do you have any counterpoints he did not address?"
Again his word is not gospel. And it's not a guess, it's you being proactive of the information you give her. If she stops, the moment she stops assume she is both standing there AND phasing then bolt AWAY from her. If she was standing still you gain distance to the next loop. If she was phasing there is a good chance she wouldn't have reacted to you running away immediately (unless she deduces this from a previous encounter), so you gain distance. If she waited then started phasing, well phase charge takes 1.5 seconds by default so you gain distance and therefore she has to use more power. Scott's whole assumption that the survivor will stay at the pallet and play it out is the problem here. They don't have to do that, and in fact SHOULD NOT do that. They should just bolt for the nearest tile, preferably to a window. If they make the window, there is an almost guaranteed chance the Spirit will not have enough phase to make it around. The only way that would be possible is if she has speed AND duration add-ons and predicted you would vault long before you did, AND reacted to you leaving quickly enough to not lose too much power.
"It's called guessing. There is no information to go off of. If good survivors are consistently being potatoes against mediocre spirits instead of consistently out playing her, more than a year after release, maybe there is a design flaw. Just a guess."
Stop trying to guess. Start trying to bait and make decisions about what to do quicker. Look at your options, see what is the safest and do that the MOMENT you get the opportunity. If you can throw in a bait, backtrack or fake a vault, even better. You want to keep HER guessing what you are doing, you don't want to try and guess what she is going to do.
This is the entire problem with your/Scott's argument. It's based on the assumption the survivor is trying to play reactively to the Spirit. If you attempt this you get caught. You need to play proactively, as in baiting and making moves the instant the opportunity arises. You shouldn't worry about what she is doing, if you can make it to the pallet or window regardless, then it doesn't matter what she is doing. And sometimes this isn't an option, it is a guessing game where you need to play reactively, but these are the situations you want to avoid. For example, corning yourself is a bad idea. You always want to make a move that would lead to making another move and so on.
"Literally all the same critiques and useless counter arguments pre-rework when devs said spirit was over performing. And the collision, vault animation, and post phase speed changes didn't do much to address these design flaws."
I'ma be honest, the real reason she was over performing was Prayer Beads and to a lesser extent Amulet. Those add-ons were ridiculously strong, alone or together. Gutting them both made a huge difference because now there's nothing to boost poor Spirit play. Bad Spirit's can't get away with cheeky free grabs from PB or just the crazy buffs from Amulet. They have to actually use her power wisely to get hits.
You call them design "flaws" which is not the case. The flaw is in the logic that to beat a Spirit you have to know what she is doing. No you don't, you have to know what YOU can do that would avoid a hit. In most cases that means running from tile to tile, breaking LOS often, and using windows to force her to use more of her power to catch up. And this works against a lot of killers not just Spirit, it's just the most effective on Spirit because you can manipulate the information you give her. But even against say a Billy, if they think you are going to continue looping a pallet, attempt to mindgame (moonwalk maybe?) and during this moment you just run to the next tile you can keep a chase going for a LONG time without even using pallets, just windows. Chaining tiles is a really strong tactic and the best option against Spirit, especially because she is 110 out of phase.
-
@freyaolsen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1291010#Comment_1291010
Hello there, a moderator contacted me yesterday that my post in discussions had been deleted due to it containing a draw for steam gift cards. He advised me to post it here instead. But thank you anyway!
Oh okay, well if a mod told you that then yea do that LOL.
-
Cool I would have put this in Discussions though. Not really a question.
Also as someone that has experience in the game industry there are usually outside factors at play. Like someone might have enjoyed survivor more but because they didn't have any friends that play the picked killer first and just kinda went with that. Now they are a killer main, which then creates some level of bias when they play survivor. And vice versa, someone with friends might be more inclined to be a killer main but since they had friends they started with survivor and that influences the path they take through their experience with the game.
Not saying you can't draw some level of conclusion about personality or whatever just that you can never really predict how someone will react to something and the order of exposure to certain things can influence their behavior in the game. Like if you pick X character in Street Fighter you will be more inclined to hate Y character because they are a hard counter to your character, when another player doesn't have that experience and thus forms a different opinion of Y character since they are less influenced by it.