sizzlingmario4
sizzlingmario4
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There are more hex perks because they have existed for several years. Boons have only been around since October 2021. There were already 12 hex perks prior to boons, so of course there will be more of them.
There have only been 2 new hex perks added after boons, which are Pentimento and Face the Darkness (which you missed on your list, which is why you only have 13 instead of 14).
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There was nothing interesting about most of these mechanics though. Getting burned as Wraith wasn't overpowered but it was very annoying. Burning Artist's crows just made her feel worse to play for no good reason. And the amount of difference having a flashlight vs. not having a flashlight made against Hag and her traps was dumb.
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If these changes go through as is, WMI absolutely will be meta.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379939#Comment_3379939
What are you talking about? It wasn't busted. The only issue it had was stacking with medkits. Once the update hits it will be utter trash tier.
It made self-healing too efficient and too easy to access, and provided far more value to the entire survivor team than 1 perk slot should ever be able to.
Team healing should be encouraged instead, which is part of why the base healing nerf is a terrible idea.
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@Aurelle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379935#Comment_3379935
This.
Honestly the healing nerfs would be fine if they kept COH the same. The changes would directly nerf COH.
There's no point of boons anymore, unless you bring Shadow Step which is the only decent boon left standing.
This just highlights how busted CoH was though.
These base healing nerfs are not okay in the slightest. Medkits and CoH were issues, they nerfed them. That's great. They didn't need to add a massive nerf to base healing on top of that.
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Hit and run would be fine if they were just nerfing medkits and CoH and not nerfing base healing.
Hit and run with a base healing nerf especially with Sloppy existing is going to be a nightmare.
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@TigerSnake said:
Sloppy Butcher. Pop looking nicer with all the other nerfs. You may still see Over Brine just because there’s nothing better to use, so might as well.
While CoB is still okay for information, CoB + OC is crap now for actual regression.
CoB alone will be 0.3125c/s for up to 60 seconds; if left for the entire 60 seconds, it’s only 3.75 extra charges of regression compared to normal (this was previously 15 extra, 30 total). The extra regression is 0.0625c/s, instead of 0.25c/s.
OC will start at 0.2125c/s and go up to 0.325c/s over 30 seconds, instead of 0.1875 to 0.5.
If you put them together, they stack additively, so you would start at 0.275c/s (0.2125 + 0.0625) and get up to 0.3875c/s for 30 seconds, then drop back to 0.325c/s (when CoB ends at the 60 second mark). With the previous iteration, either of these perks alone gave you 0.5c/s at max and 0.75c/s combined.
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I genuinely don’t think there is any good way to nerf DH.
I’d rather it just be reworked entirely.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Eruption, Pain res, Call of Brine, and Overcharge were all nerfed into the ground. The healing nerfs are fine, especially the altruistic healing nerfs, because gen regression is seriously awful now, and the time sink from gen regression is getting moved to healing.
Altruistic healing needs to be nerfed, because otherwise, survivors are getting the benefits of the nerfed gen regression for free, without needed to pay any compensation cost.
Survivors are paying for it though. DH and CoH, the two most powerful survivor perks, are getting nerfed, along with medkits, which were all overpowered and it’s good they are being changed. The base healing nerf was not necessary, but the medkit/CoH nerfs were long overdue.
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CoH was far stronger than any other healing perk and its previous nerfs did very little to address the problems with it. It made efficient self-healing available to your entire team for just 1 perk slot and was ridiculously overpowered.
I disagree with the base healing time being increased, that change is overkill. The problems were medkits and CoH, and they have been addressed. Normal healing did not need to be nerfed on top of that.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Why do you do this to me?
Okay 24 base
Self care is at 25% speed, Leverage is 50% slowdown for 30 seconds Penti is 30% slowdown, Coulro is 50% slowdown, Dying light is 30% slowdown and mangled is 20% slowdown
The total slowdown is 1-(0.5x0.7x0.5x0.7x0.8)=0.902 or 90.2% but that's only for 30 seconds, after 30 seconds it's 80.4% slowdown
Self care makes you work at 0.25 charges per second so that's 0.25x0.098=0.0245 charges per second for 30 seconds and 0.049 charges per second after 30 seconds
You need 24 charges so you get 0.735 charges after 30 seconds and then it takes 474.8 seconds for the remaining charges for a total of 504.8 seconds or 8 minutes and 24.6 seconds
I think... I might be wrong but i'm not redoing it
Pretty sure this calculation is correct, I also just ran through it myself and also got 504.80. In other words, 8 minutes and 24.80 seconds.
@AmpersandUnderscore We cannot get the 11th DL stack/proc Leverage a second time for this calculation because doing so will either disable DL (because obsession would have to be dead), or necessitate that the survivor self-caring is the obsession, meaning DL would not apply. So we do not benefit from doing this.
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Boons have needed a rework for a while. They’re not well designed and their core design holds back the strength of individual boon perks because they can’t be made any stronger without being overpowered. CoH was busted, it’s getting nerfed down to the strength of the others, so now they’re all just in a really awkward spot.
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@Ayodam said:
Isn’t CoH just Botany in Boon form now?
Correct, except it doesn’t work with medkits.
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Agreed. Medkit nerfs are good. Nerfing normal healing between 2 survivors is not.
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Yeah, normal healing really didn’t need to be nerfed. Nerfing CoH and medkits is good, I’m all for it. But there was nothing wrong with an effectively 32s time investment between two survivors. Just give medkits a heal speed debuff instead.
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She needed a way to safely remove her traps without flashlights that didn’t involve waiting for someone to be downed and then running over them all while she was carrying a survivor. Flashlights were too oppressive against her but there was often little that could be done without them. It was like night and day.
If Hag ends up needing additional buffs to offset this, that’s fine. But she will be much more bearable to face now and it makes traps near hooks less powerful, which is good.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379527#Comment_3379527
Call of Brine wasn't overpowered, though. It could get a bit stupid with Overcharge, but it was easy to counter - you just return to the gen quickly or you tap it. If the killer hugs the gen for a while, then you pile somewhere else. The issue was the emergence of killers who can 3gen like their lives depend on it, not gen regression perks themselves.
DH and CoH, yeah, even if I thought CoH was in a healthier state before than they're putting it now. And DH I'm just tired of hearing about.
You could gen tap, but it also gave the killer information that you were back as soon as you did a skill check so they could come kick it again. It was like two perks in one imo. Now it’s more of an info perk and doesn’t do much for slowdown. Any killer could hold a 3 gen with CoB + OC, the last couple killers released were just even better at doing it.
As for CoH, I think boons just need a more substantial rework because I highly doubt we’re going to see them much at all now. Make them more useful but give them better counterplay. Having to travel to the top of Ironworks to snuff a totem is dumb.
DH, idk. I don’t think there was a great way to fix it without reworking it entirely if I’m being honest. But it’s still a nerf so I’ll take it.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379527#Comment_3379527
BHVR has a bad pattern of nerfing perks by crippling the numbers, and then trying to buff them after by changing how they work.
The obvious fix was to change how CoB worked so it wasn't just constant application, not make the thing useless. And on the flip side, we have Gearhead, where the problem was that it might activate whilst you're still doing something on top of its RNG reliance. Now we have Gearhead, which is almost certainly going to activate when you're doing something, and when you're not doing something, there are other perks that don't rely on Survivors being on gens and getting skillchecks (BBQ, obviously, for one). <_>
I’m not sure what you mean with not constant application for CoB, are you saying it should have a cooldown or something?
Not sure how I feel about the new Gearhead. It’ll definitely activate more often now, but the gen auras will still block survivor auras a lot of the time.
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DH, CoH, and CoB were all overpowered though. While I’ll admit CoH is most definitely dead now, hopefully now the devs will realize boon totems are a failed mechanic because no one will actually use them anymore. I actually don’t have a problem with any of these perks being nerfed, what I do have a problem with is how hard healing was nerfed when the only problems were medkits and CoH.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379435#Comment_3379435
Fun fact: if you face camp with sloppy and manage to hit one survivor early before they're ready to try for an actual unhook...
By the time they heal that survivor to try again, reassurance has expired if they even brought it.
It's Forever Freddy levels of healing, base kit, for everyone. Solo q is going to be unplayable.
I agree. The base heal changes are overboard. Medkits and CoH needed nerfs, they nerfed them, but then went too far with it as usual by nerfing all healing. I’d be completely fine with putting a heal speed penalty on medkits to make them 24 seconds, but normal healing did not need to be nerfed this much, if at all.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379144#Comment_3379144
Every game is already 2 Proves at the minimum with 2 toolboxes and BNPs 😅 I had hoped that they would at the very least remove the ability to combine toolboxes/add-ons with Prove :/
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379216#Comment_3379216
Combine Sloppy with Coulrophobia, and Blood Echo and it will be a true menace to healing, enter the gen-jockeys. I wonder how Blood Echo will work against the new DH...
Sloppy Butcher heals will be 30 seconds now; combining with Coulro would extend that to 60 (or Coulro would be 48 by itself).
I’m also expecting Gift of Pain to be a bit more popular now if these changes go through, especially since PR has been nerfed. It’ll be a 30 second heal after unhook and then the 16% heal penalty will be more impactful now too, AND it reduces repair speed.
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I’m not sure I understand the nerf. Are the tokens just lost when hooking a survivor for the first time, which activates it, and then after that it just deactivates so you can only use it 4 times total? Is that correct?
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@ad19970 said:
I am excited to see how this will play out. But I feel like 20 seconds would have been enough. Or simply nerfing medkits to 24 seconds. I don't know.
But it's an interesting approach, nerfing the best gen regression perks, and instead allowing killer to slow down the game themselves more, by spreading damage. The only potential problem here is as mentioned, that survivors might just now want to heal at all anymore.
So I could definitely see BHVR toning the healing time down to 20 seconds.
Medkits being 24s will definitely be okay. I just feel like normal healing wasn’t really a problem and with Sloppy now it’s just going to be way too long. I’m expecting Resilience/Adrenaline to be meta with these changes (and Adrenaline already was meta). I would much rather they have just put a penalty on medkits that makes healing longer than to nerf all healing.
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I’m not sure why they felt normal healing was an issue. Medkit heals being 24 seconds is totally fine, they desperately needed to be nerfed. But base healing taking that long and even longer with Sloppy just makes healing very unappealing and not really worth it anymore.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378721#Comment_3378721
Gas Heaven is awful in my opinion. The car walls are a huge pain in the ass, but in addition to that I would argue it is a bit too big and has too many safe pallet loops.
It is a little big but I’m hoping the car wall holes will help with that a bit and it can also create some pretty large deadzones especially once some pallets are broken. I’d still much rather play Gas Heaven before several other terrible maps.
Either way, we’ll see if the new one is better or not.
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Agreed. I’m happy medkits and CoH are getting nerfed because they absolutely needed it but we didn’t need to nerf base healing with it. 24 seconds to heal your teammate is far too long and will make hit and run miserable to face especially with Sloppy Butcher. Healing with Sloppy will be 30 seconds now.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379105#Comment_3379105
Without Sloppy, Self-Care/Botany now takes half a generator
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1XWTWPJ0J555/image.png
(Self-Care solo now takes ~68.57 seconds)
Doing anything with Botany now will take the same amount of time it previously did without it as long as no other heal speed increases are involved. A normal heal with Botany would be 16 seconds now.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/368905/autohaven-changes
After what happened to the red forest and the last 3 maps I'm extremely worried.
Putting a hole in the car wall is definitely a good change, but agreed. I hope they don’t completely ruin other parts of the map and make it worse than before. That front window in the main building is a bit rough if the garage is open (aka when the generator is completed) since then you can loop back around to it, but other than that it’s not a terrible map apart from the car walls.
Still amazed that they somehow managed to make Red Forest worse than the old one, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at this point.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378499#Comment_3378499
Oh interesting I suppose I hadn’t paid too much attention to the range specifically. I hadn’t realized they didn’t work. Yeah an open handed kindred though is ridiculous aura reading.
The reason it doesn’t work is because the center of the aura reading range is the generator; OH only works with aura reading ranges centered on a survivor. It works with Kindred because the hooked survivor is the center of the range (not the hook itself).
For example, it works with Bond and Visionary because your survivor character is the center of the range, but it doesn’t extend the range you can see your Plaything totem, because the totem is the center of the range.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375663#Comment_3375663
Kind of funny to see someone else mention this. I don’t know if I’d go as far as S tier, but it is low key actually pretty dang good. I’ve been just running meme builds and I did Wiretap, Kindred, Open Handed and Blastmine to discourage kicks. You get massive aura reading across the map. When they know you’re at the loop they almost never will kick it before chasing. Trying to mind game shack or a jungle gym when they see your aura the entire time? Yeah, it’s not happening. No one runs it but yeah it’s quite good. It turned out a bit better than a meme build.
Definitely. I’d put Wiretap in low A tier probably. It would be higher if it worked with Open-Handed but it actually doesn’t (and it’s intended that it doesn’t). But that’s still a really good build because Open-Handed + Kindred is just so strong.
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How does this even happen?
Guess I’m not playing skillcheck Doctor until the midchapter because MS needs to be killswitched, again.
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They did nerf it already.
Unfortunately it just so happens to still be an issue.
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Keep it as a punishment for DCing and remove it otherwise.
It made sense when ranks were used for matchmaking but now it doesn't.
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The pallet breaks are only fair because of the traps self-destructing on their own. The previous version of it with the addon was bad design because it couldn’t be outlasted unless the Skull Merchant dropped chase for long enough for the survivor to remove the trap. It created a lose-lose scenario for the survivor that they could do nothing about other than just playing at windows instead which isn’t always an option.
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Agreed, it's completely unnecessary and every other perk that has had an effect that only matters against specific killers has been changed because it's not good design (eg. old Small Game). Adrenaline shouldn't be any different.
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Wesker is far more fun to both play and play against than Nemesis and his zombies ever will be.
I don't think I really have a favorite between the survivors. I play Jill, Ada, and Rebecca fairly often.
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+1, this is super annoying with Wraith, please fix
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Meh. Demo isn't a weak killer and doesn't really need that buff.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377099#Comment_3377099
I prefer Inner healing over pharmacy. While ranking, if two perks have very similar utility or function i tended to de value perks that i think get overshadowed. But i must admit, that i just don't value chest perks, like you can see for most of my rankings, so maybe that was the reason for the C.
Emphatic connection, i just don't like that the team mates see my aura, while i only get a sub par healing speed boost. I like being altruistic, but i don't like that the perk gives the tools to my team instead of me. So i just prefer Empathy. Maybe it's just a mental thing
Fair. Inner Healing is still decent but I feel like it lost some value once boons were introduced (especially with CoH being meta, but also because it conflicts with boons in general) and also once Ruin was nerfed because now hex totems are less common and it’s rarer that you will get Inner Healing for free from a totem that you would’ve cleansed anyway. Though if CoH gets nerfed (which seems likely) then Inner Strength might become a bit more popular again. I might’ve put it in A tier in early/mid-2021, but probably B now.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377101#Comment_3377101
Are you sure? I wasn’t aware of the outfit slots and I am pretty sure i checked for them specifically when they added the perk/build slots..
Yeah, I even went back and checked in the patchnotes to make sure.
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It’s been there since Dredge release, it was added for builds and outfits at the same time.
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Decent list, though I'd probably move NOED down to A tier and STBFL up to S. Septic Touch should also be in D tier, that perk is legit one of the worst in the game.
I'd also say Empathic Connection and Pharmacy should be in B tier, those perks are very underrated. Even though the new Pharmacy doesn't work while healthy anymore it's still very good and being able to use it more than once makes up for it.
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Imo they could fix it by making the icon only light up in LOS and increase the action speed bonus to compensate. Gives stealth killers more counterplay against it and makes it more useful against other killers that aren't really affected by it much
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Fixing map design will go a long way towards making M1 killers better, but it wouldn't completely fix all the issues. Some killers just suck and they'd still need changes.
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Spirit would be incredibly broken if she was 4.6.
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It's definitely better than the current one especially since it doesn't buff the obsession. Numbers might be a little high but I'm not sure. I do like the concept because it incentivizes healthy gameplay so maybe it's fine being a bit strong.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I would also like if they do a trade off: Buff base opening locked locker by 0.5 sec and nerf the yellow addon for it by 0.5 sec.
This is the change I’ve wanted for forever. I never play Dredge without that addon
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376591#Comment_3376591
You can toggle it on/off yes. No the killer won't be able to see it - neither will other survivors, it's purely for the player who has it toggled on.
This is an accessibility feature to assist our hard of hearing players so that they can hear the terror radius of the killer, they don't get any other sound cues such as gens being worked, sounds of other survivors healing etc. It's purely the terror radius.
Does this have any interaction with lullaby killers (eg. Huntress or Freddy while in dream state)?
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@Caiman said:
I made a suggestion to buff it by having its effects apply while the survivor was on the hook, and the 30-second time only kicking in once they were unhooked. That would fit its name better too. Maybe double its effects for every survivor that's on a hook, if you want to be crazy.
I feel like doing it that way would encourage camping. I do think it should last longer though.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375831#Comment_3375831
It takes multiple perks for a survivor to move faster than a killer's base movement for a significant amount of time and these perks have very specific triggers that combining them is not an easy task. It's hardly a problem.
No one complains about Guardian which makes an unhook survivor move at 117% speed for a few seconds off hook. Which you can stack with Hope and No One Left Behind in the end game for an insane 131% speed.
The reason Guardian and NOLB are fine is because they don’t last very long.
PoT + BP lets you do this indefinitely especially against 110 killers. Being faster than the killer for a brief period is fine, but being faster than them for a long or unlimited amount of time should not be possible by any means, even if it requires SWF and specific perk combos to be set up.
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Yeah idk why this is a thing. Like, the only way to really use Power of Two is to be in a SWF and combo it with Blood Pact. It’s a lot of work, but you can be almost faster than, or sometimes faster than the killer, especially if you bring certain other perks too, for an indefinite amount of time which shouldn’t be possible.
Imo Haste shouldn’t have a hard cap, it should just not stack with other instances of itself. Change the effect when getting unhooked to its own status effect that does the same thing so perks like Guardian and NOLB aren’t impacted by the change.