sizzlingmario4
sizzlingmario4
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They did change CoH's heal speed twice in the past and both times it didn't do anything to address its problematic nature. The problem wasn't that a 50% healing bonus was too much, it was that it allowed the entire survivor team to be self-sufficient and heal themselves quickly.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
So the brown Bandages addon are removed? Even less bloodweb clutter is great.
I don't think so, it was still there on the PTB. It just wasn't changed. They did the same thing with the PTB patch notes, they only mentioned the addons that had actually received changes (which was all of them except for 2).
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Great changes. Changing back normal healing while keeping medkits slower is exactly what needed to be done and they listened to feedback about Hillbilly. Great job BHVR.
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Knockout is just a poorly designed perk. I don’t think it should be removed, but I don’t think it should hide auras.
Head On is occasionally annoying but there’s nothing truly wrong with it. It’s often pretty easy to counter too.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390780#Comment_3390780
pyramid head entirely based around the idea of hard-tunneling people out of cages so base-kit BT would make it harder to tunnel people out of the game thus nerfing his only relevant ability. When you have powers like this based off exclusive tunneling, it shows that tunneling is going nowhere for dbd. it is inherently part of the game. The torment would have no threat-level if they nerfed his cages and I cannot think of anything that could replace that strength of his. Even giving permanent wall-hack with torment debuff would be worse then the inability to tunnel out of cages.
While his cages certainly enable tunneling, that doesn’t make it good design. I am mostly fine with the cages as they are, I just don’t like that being uncaged near PH can lead to an uncounterable down. They would still retain all their other benefits of bypassing survivor perks and being a quick alternative to a hook that allows PH to bypass the time needed to hook a survivor. You’d still be able to tunnel, you just wouldn’t be able to down someone straight out of the cage.
What I mainly want for PH is for him to have a proper addon set that has viable options other than just range. That Scarlet Egg buff they're doing next update is not going to do anything meaningful.
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Perks that allow instadowns all do it through Exposed which means it only works with basic attacks, preventing it from being too oppressive with certain killer powers (and this is why Nurse's blink attacks needed to be changed to special attacks). Since any perk can be used on any killer in the game, they all have to be balanced accordingly.
Killer powers that instadown have certain requirements and/or restrictions that make it fair. Bubba has his chainsaw, but that's the only thing he has and it has a charge time - a situation where you can m1 a survivor doesn't necessarily mean you can chainsaw them before they reach a window or pallet. Myers can instadown survivors in tier 3, but he has to work for it by stalking. Oni can instadown survivors in his power, but his power has limited availability and at all other times he is a basic m1 killer.
And this is basically the treatment Dead Hard is getting - since it now requires a safe unhook or self-unhook to activate and can only be used once per activation, it puts a hard limit on how many times it can be used in a match and completely removes it from the first chase of the game.
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Part of his power with the cages is that no perks on either side are allowed to interact with them (Kinship is an exception, but that’s a bug that’s getting fixed next update so soon that won’t work anymore either). Perks like DS don’t work, but neither do killer perks like PGTW.
I think the cages should grant the basekit BT effects though, because that isn’t a perk and as you said there’s nothing the uncaged survivor can do if PH is nearby.
@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390683#Comment_3390683
i could be wrong but does the cage not get teleported away when he comes to close for a certain time?
This mechanic does exist but only if he’s within 5 meters of the cage and his ranged attack has an 8 meter range so he can get around that easily.
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That shouldn’t even be in the game honestly.
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@Mccormick213 said:
Why do this?
Because killers are literally wasting my time by not hooking me. I cannot do anything about it. Leave the game? Get a penalty for both the Blood Points lost aswell as next game queue time.
So.. what can i do if a killer doesn't hook me? Right, the only option is to either 1) wait all the way untill i die because of not being hooked at all. Or 2) wait till the killer does hook me.
How is that good design? Then at least make the time untill Survivors die without being hooked shorter. You need something better in place for trolling Killers than what is currently available. Are you all that patient to wait the entire time for you to die without being hooked? Nice, that's some awesome patience u guys all have.
If you make the bleedout timer shorter you’d actually be encouraging more slugging as bleeding survivors out as a strategy would be more viable. At a certain point it would no longer be worth taking the time to pick up a survivor and take them to a hook compared to just bleeding out.
Also, there are valid reasons to slug that aren’t toxic and sometimes you don’t actually have any other choice.
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SB and Lithe are about to become very popular.
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They’re a failed mechanic and they need a rework. CoH exacerbated the issue far more than any of the others but the boon system as a whole is flawed. The sooner they do something about it, the easier it will be to rebalance all existing boon perks in accordance with whatever changes are made. Not a huge deal when only 4 exist.
Until that happens, they shouldn’t make any more new ones, and CoH needed to be brought down significantly. It can always be adjusted again in the future.
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I think speed addons are problematic too honestly. Iri Tag I agree is fine though because it opens up risk/reward play which rewards skillful play and can punish you if you make a mistake (eg. you try to instadown and end up not getting a hit at all).
C21, C33, Adrenaline Vial, Alch Ring, Rat, and Crow should all be nerfed. I would even say there shouldn’t be 2 speed addons at all, or at the very least they should have a downside or shouldn’t stack.
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Dredge: Haddie's Calendar, and usually Broken Doll
Cannibal: Award-Winning Chili
Pig: Combat Straps, Workshop Grease
Deathslinger: reload speed
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I don’t think they’ve said anything about it since then, it’s still planned afaik.
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@BlueHorkew said:
Funny, i didn't get anything about Eyrie in the survey.
I didn’t either.
I got some about Nurse though, did you?
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Franklin’s isn’t going to be nearly as good with medkits being nerfed. That was the item it was the most effective against.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388356#Comment_3388356
I don't know how reliable it is, but I've seen and heard from several people that the PTB has a lot of performance issues.
Some of those could be crashes. I don't know for sure though, BHVR hasn't let us console players use the ptb :(
I never got disconnected/crashed over it, but I did have a lot of performance issues and some animations were VERY laggy. Having no issues on live servers.
I dealt with it because it was a PTB, but if it was that bad on live, I probably wouldn’t play until it was fixed.
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They still exist. They’re just unchanged.
I thought they were gone too until I went on the PTB and saw they were still there.
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I think the majority of the playerbase finds her boring and she's also difficult to play well against good survivors (though she's a very strong killer if you're willing to put the time into her). I like her too, but I understand why a lot of players don't.
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Yes, but the very common suggestion of making it hide the HUD action indicators is not a good idea.
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I typically will down them but then leave them on the floor and hope they come back.
If they get crows (meaning I start getting spammed with notifs), then they’re going on the hook.
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They also changed DH, it now also activates if you unhook yourself too. Which means it goes well with Deliverance.
It also just says it deactivates now after use and not on successful use, I think this means you won't get to try again if you fail like what was originally mentioned.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
The only people that run this perk are selfish players who ignore their team.
I’m fine with it being a bad perk because if it’s buffed then those selfish players are more likely to escape and I would rather they didn’t…
Agreed. Perks like LB are unhealthy for the game.
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Video proof of this issue; it happens with the Blindness addon too. It may also be a thing with the Hindered addon, didn't check that one.
As you can see here both status effects last 15 seconds when they should only last around 11.5 seconds with Vigil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHmq9to3l_g -
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384386#Comment_3384386
Self healing was the issue because of how fast survivors could heal themselves in it. With the nerf to healing, that wouldn't have been an issue anymore. It would have been almost the same time as it took to heal yourself with Self Care before the nerf.
I really hope they revert the nerf to CoH, because that is the one nerf that will hurt solo survivors more than swf. And that is a big shame, considering just last mid chapter patch, things finally were looking to become better for solo queue. And obviously CoH nerf won't undo that, but it's still a shame to have a nerf that affects solo queue much more than swf.
It would be slower, but so would all healing with their proposed changes. The perk actually would’ve been even more valuable than it already is with medkits being nerfed.
It may have been a good solo queue perk, but it didn’t change how unhealthy it was and it was still incredibly powerful in SWF too. I actually think CoH has hurt the game more than people realize because survivors have gotten too used to efficient self-healing over the last year and a half and it’s going to be rough now for a little bit when it’s gone, even if they hadn’t nerfed base healing at all. Same thing with killers once gen-kick meta gets nuked in the coming patch (and to be clear, that needed to go too). Players who consistently relied on these tools to win are going to struggle.
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Nah, the self-healing was the entire issue with it. BHVR had a choice between removing the self-healing entirely or making it so slow that it was near-worthless, and they chose the former. The truth is boon perks as a whole are just badly executed and should get a rework. Until then, none of them can be made any stronger, including this one once its nerfed.
Btw, it's not just being limited to medkits, it's only an altruistic heal speed bonus now (and the aura reveals they're adding to it). Using your medkit in the boon radius will not give you any bonus.
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I think it's mostly fine now, but I think it should deactivate or switch totems if someone is hooked near it. That's the only part of it that's uncounterable. I don't really have a problem with it otherwise since it's a lot easier to find now which made it feel a lot more fair.
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While I like the direction they went with Pain Res and encouraging healthy killer gameplay, it's definitely a pretty harsh nerf. I’d be interested to know how many times on average the perk activates per match in its current form, just to put it into perspective since now you'll never get more than 4 uses per match. I might keep some data on this in my own matches over the next few weeks prior to the nerf.
As for DH, there was no good fix imo. It should’ve just been reworked entirely.
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I don’t think so, because Pharmacy is actually going to be indirectly nerfed by the medkit nerfs. The time it takes to open a chest and heal with Pharmacy is going to be almost twice as long as it currently is, since using a green medkit will be much slower now.
I actually really like Pharmacy in its current state, but idk if I’ll use it much anymore after the midchapter.
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Agreed. This is exactly how it should be handled.
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@Kimdinhold said:
Dead hard is buff and nerf.
Dead Hard will deactivate when it successfully protects the user from damage.
So now you can spam E after safely unhooking a survivor, New dead hard will not deactivate if you fail.
You still get Exhausted if you fail. You can try it again in your next chase, but you won’t be able to just spam it multiple times in one chase.
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While it’s possible it may be successful more often when it’s used because killers may not wait for it as much or expect it, it will have less opportunities to be used and it is still an objective nerf in all aspects this time in terms of what it actually allows a survivor to do. The first nerf in 6.1.0 made it weaker overall but in certain scenarios it was actually better than the old one. This version of DH won’t allow you to do anything the previous one didn’t, and killers will not have to play around it in their first chase at all because no one can have it activated yet.
I definitely do not think it’s a dead perk, but it will get significantly less use now.
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Imo the perk should reset immediately as soon as you use your free hit (instead of needing to be downed to reset it) and remove the aura reading completely. It’s a leftover downside from the original MoM and it’s not necessary.
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It was one of the worst things they ever tried to do.
Making moris a common occurrence doesn’t make them special or more exciting, it just makes them boring.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382387#Comment_3382387
Would you say requiring gen slowdown perks for killers isn’t okay as well?
100%. Basically, my opinion was that the gen-kick meta was unhealthy but Pain Res didn't deserve to be nerfed again until killers had some way to slow generators down a bit more especially in the early game. Now granted, nerfing base healing would help with that, I just think it isn't the right way to go about it and creates more problems than it solves.
But no, I'd be totally fine with some form of base Corrupt or something else that makes it so the killer doesn't often just lose 2-3 gens before they get a single hook. I'm not sure exactly what the best solution is, there's probably multiple ways to go about it. You could also provide incentives for healthy killer gameplay that slow down the game a bit. Just throwing out some ideas here.
I also think the default regression rate should be one-third instead of one-fourth, and stuff like BNPs just shouldn't exist.
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Removing Lightburn isn't suddenly going to make Wraith an uncounterable S tier killer. He's fine
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@Blueberry said:
So you run healing perks to counteract that time?
Healing perks shouldn’t become a requirement. These changes make medkits more necessary than ever before despite them also being nerfed. They should've started by just nerfing medkits and CoH and seeing what happens after that.
That said, medkits and CoH being nerfed is good. It was long overdue.
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CoH was one of the dumbest perk ideas BHVR ever came up with and it was just so much stronger than pretty much every other healing perk because it allowed the entire team to self-heal in 21 seconds which was much more efficient than normal healing especially because it didn't require 2 survivors to be off of generators like normal healing does.
There was no good way to fix the perk without changing how boon totems work as a whole (which is something they need to do because boons are a mechanical failure). Since that hasn't happened, it will now sit in the trash pile with all the other boons for the most part.
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After the upcoming CoB and OC nerfs, I think her 3 genning will be fine for the most part.
She'll still be kinda boring to face, but she won't be able to drag games on for as long.
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Yeah agreed. Sheep Block can be 60s Blindness but Unicorn Block should just be reworked. They’ve been avoiding duplicate addons like this on all newer killers starting with Artist (and all those which have been reworked since then), I’d like to see this philosophy extended to some older killers as well.
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I hate that it has a penalty but 50% increase to self-heal is too much for it not to be there.
I’d rather they reduce the bonus (for self-healing only) and remove the penalty, then buff Self-Care a little to offset this.
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@Steakdabait said:
im like 95% sure that only the info part of it lasts 60 seconds while the regression increase lasts forever.
No, after 60 seconds it’s gone completely. If it’s still regressing then it just goes back to the normal speed.
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It’s pretty unacceptable.
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@Remedicist said:
Altruistic healing should remain 16 seconds as it already requires two survivors that aren't doing gens, and of course should still be faster with more survivors that are participating in the healing action. I do think that base solo healing should be around 20-24 seconds.
They can just put a 33% self-heal debuff on medkits to make it 24 seconds and keep normal healing the same. Doing it this way also prevents Self-Care from being indirectly nerfed again.
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I don't even play Billy and I feel terrible for the few dedicated Billy players still left out there. Engravings did not need to be nerfed, at all. And I'm worried that it might be a pretty harsh nerf because they didn't give us the exact numbers in the dev update like they did for most of the other changes. But we'll see.
Playing against a good Billy is one of the most fun things you can do as a survivor in this game.
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@HugTheHag said:
Agree that she feels very strong for the average survivor.
She's not an M1 killer if people have 1 health state indtead of 2.
If Hag gotta be nerfed because lesser experienced survivors find her oppressive, it would only be on track for Bhvr to nerf Plague a little bit.
Hag might need a compensatory buff if anything. Not really sure yet, it depends on how long it takes to clear the phantasm traps, they didn't say.
Plague is fine minus Black Incense, that addon is stupid.
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Yep. All they had to do was change medkits and CoH. Nerfing base healing is unnecessary and overkill.
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Nah. If anything I’d be closer to buffing Dredge than nerfing.
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No, DMS needed to be nerfed regardless. BHVR’s actual reason for nerfing it was stupid though.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381358#Comment_3381358
Stop being illogical.
The point of the perk is giving you access to healing, for free, whenever you need it while also making it safer to get it.
The advantage of the perk has nothing to do with the healing itself, but to guarantee you have access to it without having to bring your own healing method or depend in RNGesus and is how it will continue to work after the change.
It gives you an item which is being nerfed. How is that anything but a nerf to the perk? It’s an indirect nerf, sure, but it’s still a nerf. The advantage was both getting access to a healing item AND how quickly it healed you.
You can literally buff it and it will still likely be weaker than before, and that’s okay because green medkits were pretty broken tbf. I don’t even necessarily want it to heal you as fast as it did before. Just give it SOMETHING.