savevatznick
savevatznick
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@JoByDaylight said:
I love the idea!
I'm colorblind so I can't really track blood on the ground on most maps, but this gives me a reason to use Haemorrhage add-ons.
This also makes anti-healing builds much more intimidating.
The game is so dark that no one can track blood on most maps. It's so dark some CHARACTERS become matte black silhouettes you am barely see. Don't blame yourself haha.
Also good idea.
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Focusing If you committed to hex defense in playstyle, this would be a good build to turn Devour Hope into a reliable perk.
Too bad I don't have Undying to test it...
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On the one hand, it is pretty satisfying to feign ignorance then punish toxic survivor groups who expect the killer to fall for all their tricks.
On the other hand, if the survivors are being toxic AND are actually good, it feels awful to go against because you realize how little power the killer actually has even if the survivors are actually going out of their way to harass you. I might get a hit on some flashlight clicker, but if they know how to string tiles together it doesn't really matter how calmly I play it. They're going to use their speed burst to get to a strong loop and keep on clicking.
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A lot of your success is dependent on how the map spawns.
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Maybe if killers could see the difference between different types of items....
Maybe if all medkits didn't look the same. All toolboxes. All flashlights. All keys....
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Why do people get mad about this? Being animation locked while someone shines a flashlight in my face is why I play killer.
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Slugging is necessary at times to maintain momentumn. Seconds matter,and it does the killer no good to basically disable themselves for around ten seconds to hook a survivor when a chase is within reach.
Facecamping works sometimes. If a survivor fails an unhook and becomes slugged right next to a hooked survivor, the best option the killer has is to sit on both of them. It'd be asking the killer to literally play to lose to make them do otherwise.
If facecamping and excessive slugging are giving survivors trouble as effective tactics to the point where at least two of them can't escape, I think that's a sign that they are being punished for making mistakes.
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There are those who are looped, and those who are not.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1818070#Comment_1818070
I never said the fourth survivor shouldn't die. Hell, I made the suggestion of the fourth survivor just dying automatically. That wasn't sarcasm, that was actual off-the-cuff spitballing. Maybe if the fourth survivor automatically dies when the rest of their team dies, players will play more intelligently and more genuinely altruistically and be less selfish about hook states. Then again, one of the things the devs use as a selling point for the game is that survivors can choose to play selfishly.
It'd actually be more in line with the horror genre if every match had to have at least one survivor live. If the killer literally can't kill the fourth survivor and gets the maximum points from killing three, then it'd be just the same as the fourth automatically dying except that the game still rewards playing selfishly.
yeah, I agree that the current killer ranking system ranges from broken (Hello plague) to unrealistic (4k or blackpip). If 3k or soem other condition became the pip condition, I'd be less upset.
I'm more amazed that the devs still are hiding behind their own game as a shield to avoid taking action. They know how their game is, but make no changes.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Can the hatch stop being demonised?
The hatch wasn't designed around intentionally “screwing the killer over”, or giving SWF “free passes”.
The game is designed around strong consideration for solo survivors. And solo survivors can end up doing the best the can, and in some cases most of the work, only to get buggered by the other survivors incompetence or recklessness. The hatch offers a small ray of hope for these players, and ensures we have games that keep getting played till the end, rather than survivors more frequently just giving up,
Like seriously? Are these the games a killer wants? Games where hatch doesn’t exist and the last survivor (or last two survivors) just noise spam to get it over with because there isn’t any point trying to survive anymore at that point? Does that sound fun?
The hatch is stupid design. The killer starts out with no pressure and a deck stacked against them; only through savvy tactics and game knowledge can they create a viable win condition for themselves. No side likes a slug for the 4k. There is no reason why a survivor should escape for free just because they and their whole team failed ad their objective.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1818010#Comment_1818010
I can do something like that with one hook, does that count? (Never hook anyone all match, they decide to stick around after the exit gate was opened, I hook one, the four of them discover I have Bloodwarden and the EGC timer is almost up. True story, good times. Four kills with one hook and no slugs is more amusing than it has any right to be.)
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1818014#Comment_1818014
The way the game is designed—
wait, I just had this conversation in a different thread. Here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1817442#Comment_1817442
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1817442#Comment_1817442
Getting rid of the hatch would actually be a really complicated thing because it would require restructuring (or creating any structure at all, really) the game. Without the hatch, upon the third survivor's death the fourth might as well just get automatically sacrificed to the entity because their chances of escape would be so abysmally small why even bother. Hell, I've had matches where as the last survivor I just get the killer's attention and point to a hook because I'm bored and just want it to be over. But... is that fun for killers? Are we proud of a win where the fourth didn't even care, didn't bother to put up a fight?
I dunno, maybe it would be better if killing 3 out of 4 resulted in an automatic death for the fourth survivor. The majority are dead, the team lost, killer wins.
Or maybe three kills should be the maximum number of kills a killer can get in a match. Like a horror movie, there's always a final survivor, the one who gets away. Multiple survivors can escape through the exit gate, yes, but if three die then the fourth is just "the final girl/guy" and the match ends.
Anyway, my crazy ideas aside, if the hatch is removed with the game as it is now, one way or another the match really would have to just automatically end, otherwise we'd get survivors stealthing around the map doing nothing except holding the killer hostage, and I hated that back before the EGC. Just bored out of my skull when they'd do that. So, that's why the hatch exists: it gives the final survivor something to do, a goal that is actually attainable so the game continues for them, and between the hatch and the EGC the killer is given the ability to make sure the match ends quickly so everyone can move on and neither side can take the game hostage.
Oh, crap. I apologize, this response is actually quite long. Um, hopefully it's worth the read? (Really sorry.)
Why shouldn't the 4th survivor die?
Really. Survivor is 4 people beating out one. The killer starts at absolute rock bottom with no momentumn and the survivors have a wealth of map resources to use. If the killer forces survivors into a corner, why shouldn't they win
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@Damarus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/213480/killer-is-about-being-robbed
I HIGHLY doubt you got black pip, if you really hooked 9 times and got 3 kills. Black pip, or even Entity Displeased is something that occurs to me only on two occasions: I play as Myers with both Iri add-ons, to try and get that stupidly difficult "Evil Incarnate" achievement or I destroy survivors in the first few minutes, without a single gen getting to 50%, so I end up scoring too few points. Other than that, it is extremely easy to rack up some points to at least net you the first pip. Hatch isn't a problem, really. Sure, when I play killer I'd like a 4k too. But that doesn't mean I'm going to cry in a corner, trying some vodoo cursing because I didn't get a 4k.
And about things being really necessary, I ask you this: Is it really necessary to have exit gates spawn next to each other, possibily with a hill in between, so the killer can camp doors too, on top of hooks? Killers always whine about what is "unfair" for them, yet nobody ever points out how exit gates are broken. And what does that mean? It means you don't want survivors to have the hatch, but it also means you don't want them to stand a chance at escaping = I want a 4k every game.
I don't know if you've been playing killer up at red ranks, but pipping feels more like an exercise in entertaining the survivors than it is about being an effective killer. I already let people off of the hook for rank- no free unhooks but I let them get off - right now I can run an 10 or 11 hook game and still depip as trapper or plague. I can win every loop and play "fair" and still depip because some stupid a-hole gets a free hatch.
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@HeyheyheyItsme said:
Just imagine a basekit mechanic for killers who 0 hooked by the end game that allowed to get a pity kill.
Imagine the outcry.
Now remember that this is basically what the hatch is. And some people have the audacity to complain that it is not fair for the last survivor not be able to escape through it all the time.
Make it Basekit. Killers can morii one survivor once per match.
Sounds bad? It is. Hence; Hatch.
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@BioX said:
stop caring about rank, stop caring about pipping or not, it is meaningless.
I don't camp because rank penalizes me. I allow unhooks because the only way I pip is a 10 to 11 hook game. If I let that go, I'll be a camper. What now?
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@TragicSolitude said:
"Are they even looking for a better solution?"
I seriously doubt it, though obviously I couldn't say for sure.
The hatch would be a lot better if the devs treated it as it should be treated: an RNG consolation prize. Killers shouldn't be punished if survivors get out through the hatch. That alone would make killers feel a lot less crappy about hatch escapes. Survivors get a large reward for hatch escapes (they shouldn't), and killers lose out on BP and emblem points (they shouldn't). I've had the hatch spawn right under my feet when the third survivor died and I got to just hop through it without even having to search. Because it's RNG. And the game shouldn't treat getting lucky in that manner like some big accomplishment.
This is my point. The devs are not looking into the underlying mechanics of the hatch and what makes it so, quite frankley, brainless.
Killers just have to slug for the 4k - no one likes this. No one likes key escapes except terrible key surviviors. So why does the hatch still exist?
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Can we also use the killer kick animation to stomp on dying survivors to make their bleedout timer go down?
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>Crotus Penn Asylum, Trapper.
>Trap someone across the map, start walking through the main building to get there quicker.
>Another trap behind me goes off. First person escapes from trap.
>Turn around on a pallet, get pallet stunned by hiding survivor, other trapped person escapes.
>get to kick pallet.....yay.
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@DaFireSquirtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815748#Comment_1815748
That's like saying okay the game if fundamentally flawed but you shouldn't tell the devs that because it's your job to find a way around it. The game isn't ever gonna be balanced if you don't call out the bs.
The game IS fundamentally flawed and the devs know about it but don't do anything. Doesn't mean you can't do your best to win.
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I'm All Ears all day every day.
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Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous such an oversight continues to exist. That, and her break animation being slightly longer than other killers'.
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12-hook games seem pretty unfeasible with gen times are they are now -and survivors really don't need to hold m1 for even looonger.
It would be nice if the killer pip system didn't revolve around 12hooks as the ideal, given that higher ranks are where you're going to be deliberately trying to elide hooks due to simply not having time in the game.
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Always assume DS and keep track of who has it up. If you're in doubt, slug. Even in that case you can't stop the unbreakable.
You're the killer. Yeah, survivors get a ton of second chances to abuse. Complaining about it won't stop it - working around it will. With all the second chance perks you're going to end up trying to turn a 12 hook game that is actually a 16 down game into something like an 8 hook. Find a way.
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You sign up to be the bull and are harrassed by four rodeo clowns . Worse still - you have to stop them from escaping the ring. Do you know how hard it is to juggle four clowns? Stressful!
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A good change. Moriis deleted gameplay and changed the win condition for survivors, providing the killer with an overpowering advantage. I still think they should be removed entirely and instead have Cypress Morii be made basekit to retain the animations as a reward for doing well.
Ignore the ridiculous whataboutism with "Wah but keys!". It's just salt.
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No. The "increased rarity" of addons can be detrimental to some killers in theory and actually doesn't produce any meaningful observable change to your bloodwebs anyways.
Bloody cosmetics are the only reason to do it.
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They do it by just whirling their move stick at the last second. It's a pretty simple tactic that is funny in how it acts as an unreliable Dead Hard vs console killers.
To counter being 360'd ...
1. Don't play on console? Using sticks to control first person will never let you rotate or follow a fast moving target as well as a mouse, sadly.
2. Ok, for real. From what I've seen, a lot of console players kinda angle their camera 45 degrees diagonal instead of straight ahead as they are about to hit. When they go for a swing, the survivor begins to 360, and the killer kind of just strafes to adjust their swing, sometimes even waiting until the survivor finishes their turn, stepping back, and then lunging.
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Red Rank survivors are complete wildcards because depipping as a survivor is hard but pipping is relatively easy.
Red Rank killers can still be potato depending on who they play, but since pipping get so much harder as you climb, they generally can be described as their rank.
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Keys (and the hatch in general) are terrible design just like Moriis were (and still are to an extent). They change the win condition of the game.
You could be the killer, playing a hard-fought match and finally have 2 sac 2 alive, with one gen remaining. You've done a pretty good job while the survivors had all their resources - now the scales are tipped and your favor and you're confident you can win. No, wait, the match just ends because the survivors opened the hatch with a key. Have fun black pipping.
You enter the match with the expectation that you have at least until 5 gens pop to make things work. Just like a survivor being denied a whole hook state by the old morii, the your win condition is being made much, much harder by the existence of the key. It's why people still have a problem, to a lesser extent, with toolboxes.
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Best survivor build is Exhaustion Perk / BT / Unbreakable / DS if the survivor knows how to abuse it. Other great survivor perks are Resilience, Iron Will, an OoO for SWF, and I personally think We'll Make It is slept on.
For killers, it is more situational. If you have map mobility and can keep people off gens, BBQ&C + Ruin is a potent combo.
For sluggers, Knockout, Thanatophobia, and Infectious Fright do work.
Save the Best for Last is good for M1 Killers, as is I'm All Ears.
Good information perks are Whispers, Discordance, Thrilling Tremors.
Universally useful perks are Sloppy Butcher, Corrupt Intervention, Nurse's Calling, and Monitor&Abuse.
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Survivors pallet camp in-chase because they are not confident they can complete a full loop, but still need/want the pallet stun on the killer for distance.
If they do it badly, or if you mindgame them they might take a hit anyways, essentially "wasting" the pallet. It's a good habit to abuse - you always know you'll at least get a pallet out of the way if you plainly disrespect the pallet and swing anyways. However, if you are at a mind-gameable loop (they cannot see you over it), you can try to trick them:
If you change the way you're facing, your red glow will follow your gaze. You can use this to walk backwards around the loop instead of lunging straight through, so that the survivor doesn't see you coming around to hit them. You can then double back, change your gaze forwards and moonwalk back around the way you originally came to trick them further. Be careful doing this too many times in a row, because a smarter survivor will just run away from the pallet once you start doing this often.
They do it out of chase because they're potato or want to annoy you by showing you how they can abuse their safety. You can ignore them, or make them drop the pallet and take it for free. Don't kick a pallet if you see the survivor running away from it immediately, unless the pallet is very strong (Cowshed trailer loops, shack pallet,The Game pallets, etc.)
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The game is, at its core, a time management simulator where you, the killer, need to make enough appearances before the movie is over.
In your example, you can just hit the survivor once and let them go. If the survivors don't respect you and jump right back on the gen? Defend the gen and give them all a slap. They'll fear you more if they're injured.
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They do it to depip you.
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We need a perk that just gives aura reading on survivors who are directly in line of sight for a short range.
The maps are so ridiculously dark that survivors can blendette into the map. No, not hide behind things, but literally hide in plain sight because the map is so dark you cannot see them. It's not skilled stealth, it's just people becoming matte black shadows that have no silhouette.
Claudette is the biggest offender, but now even Elodie's green hoodie thing blends in with New Autohaven.
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Hag, Spirit, Nurse on almost any map.
Freddy, Huntress, Pyramid-Head, Blight, map dependent.
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Either Mother's Dwelling or Temple of Purgation.
Spawning on a Red Forest map without Corrupt Intervention can result in the furthest gen popping before you even get there, depending on the survivors. It's very frustrating.
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Strength : He is a better Myers. Once he gets his power, he can pressure the map, anti-loop, and instadown. Mastery of his power lets him surprise survivors because there is a bit of depth to its controls (a rare occurence in DbD).
Weakness: He has to earn his power with the first hit plus bleed times. If survivors avoid giving him blood by playing the first chases of the game safely, it can be a while before he is able to go Demon Mode and become a terror. He relies on slugging to snowball, which means anti-slug perks can nullify some of the momentumn he gains. In his m1 mode, his stomping footsteps and height make it hard for him to mindgame.
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You have to slug for the 4k. If you don't, then your game is at the mercy of the hatch coinflip.
It's stupid that the killer player can crush a match and still have to take absurd precaution which isn't fun for both sides because the last person might get a free escape.
BHVR needs to fix the problem of the hatch. It's a terrible solution to solve the problem of games being held hostage by survivors.
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Midwich. There.
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Good time to rank as killer. Slap on your Franklin's and Sloppy, load up Hag and get ready to rumble.
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Sexual orientation has no connection with how people will fight for their lives. We also hope it doesn't connect with them becoming serial killer servants of some eldritch power. Any of our characters could already be LGBT. It wouldn't show. Gays, Bisexual, Trans, etc. people all don't want to be hooked and devoured.
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I'd say put Cypress Morii basekit. You get a reward for acing the game in the form of a janky death animation.
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It is good that they are tempering the "nuclear option" of Moriis. It is certainly a positive change for game health.
However, I understand why there is a vocally upset portion of the community. The dev's priorities seem all over the place. This Morii fix seems to be quite simple and was implemented quickly - why did it take so long, and why now? Can we expect similar changes to come out as quickly?
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@Boss said:
Because many people say yes to an idea doesn't mean they're also the vast majority.
I personally don't mind the changes to them, but i do mind the lack of changes to them: Their rarities are way too high now.
Ivory needs to be on the Uncommon rarity tier like Cypress, and Ebony on Rare.
Right now they're not worth their rarities.
Please no, I don't want even more useless offerings in the bloodweb stopping me from getting green and yellow addons.
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So we can check two boxes at once?
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Stalkless Ghostface.
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Survivors are not sabotaging gameplay by doing their only objective and escaping. Playing to win is not toxic nor is it a "community problem".
The real problem ends up being that the time to win for survivors is grossly disproportionate to the time it takes a killer to get a winning amount of hooks. Gen times are ridiculously variable depending on toolboxes and Prove Thyself.
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Technically, they should expect more than one phase on the hook, because if a killer doesn't get something like 9+ hooks at red ranks they blackpip anyways.
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1. What perks help my killer's power Do they enable or exacerbate the power in a special way?
2. What perks cover my killer's weaknesses?
3. What perks slow survivors down?
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Agree on her pipping and BP gain being awful.
I think Plague is actually in a pretty alright spot right now. If your M1 fundamentals are good and you get an alright map spawn, you can get a lot done.
Her problem is that her strategy is like setting up a house of cards. If survivors cleanse at the wrong time, you can end up in literally unwinnable endgame states. She is a very, very punishing killer to play.
Also, her pallet break animation is longer than all other killers. They need to fix that and "Phantom pukes".
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If they're going to sweat gens and finish the game in 5 minutes, nothing.
If they're a normal SWF?
Abuse their altruism - no free unhooks. Assume flashlight saves always, and fake pickups for free hits. Ensure whoever is holding a key is on the ground or on the hook at all times. Play your best.