savevatznick
savevatznick
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It's advantageous to run slowdown perks because survivors that want to win will do what they're supposed to : pound gens and end the game ASAP. The slowdown perks give the killer time to build actual pressure via hooks and downs, which further slows the game down by actually getting people off gens.
You can get far more mileage out of them, much more reliably, in terms of time saved than running something like a chase perk or tracking perk which you may or may not even need.
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One of DBD's biggest problems is that there is no separation of ranked and unranked queues. This means that players with completely different intentions get matched together, in this case, OP wanting to just mess around, versus a "Tryhard" Hag playing to win.
The problem if the queues were split, however, is that unranked queue would have the same issue of some people going there explicity to seal-club the casuals. Not to mention the Ranked queue becoming the designated sweat squad that no one would want to play. BHVR would also need to balance their game around both sides being competent, which they don't do.
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We'd all like to forget about breakable walls.
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Is there a difference between being slugged and doing a gen?
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Firstly, if survivors are bullying for sure, play the best that you can. Often times they'll get cocky and kill themselves- you just need to capitalize on their mistakes. A good perk to run that really helps mitigate bullying is Agitation. It mitigates sabotage, body blocking, and is just useful in general for setting up the map in a way that helps you.
Specific tips for dealing with bullies that I can think of...
1. Fake picking up a downed survivor if you suspect there are some flashlights nearby. Just stand still over their body for a second and look down. This also works if they crawl to a pallet and you're afraid of getting stunned. It'll bait the greedy survivor out to stun you, and you can get a free hit on them. If they stick around to see if you fake again, they go down.
2. If you're carrying someone and it looks like someone is going to sabotage on you, drop the survivor and chase the saboteur. They're usually mispositioning themselves and will go down while the rest of the team picks up the other down.
3.Don't chase the clicky clicky or taunting survivors. Don't go service the noise notification spam unless you know you can get a down on it. Every second some clicky clicky flashlight Claudette spends following you around, or spamming noise, they're not on gens. If they're not on gens, you kill them eventually.
4. Face a wall when you pick up a survivor.
5. Don't feel like you have to hook everyone. If you have one on hook and one slugged in the same place, just set up your tent and camp. The survivors can't afford to lose 2 at once - there is no advantage for you to leave and give them a second chance. You can turn the game on its head and become the bully if you down 2 people on an unhook attempt, and force the last person to come straight to you.
6. Take the free hits. Bully squads are less threatening if they're all injured, and will often abuse their healthy state to bully you. Maybe they run in front of you while you're carrying a survivor? Take the free hit.
7. You can fake out Head-Ons by wiggling outside the range of the locker. A lot of times that perk is so inconsistent the survivor will bust out and give you a free hit.
8. Don't pick up the DS user, Don't let the unhooked person block you with Borrowed Time, stick near your slugs to down them if Unbreakable will lose you the game. Basic awareness of the perks survivors use helps mitigate bullying.
If things really go badly, or if you get a bad map spawn (Wretched Shop cringe), just take a break. The game ain't balanced. It ain't your fault.
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They need to remove Haddonfield first.
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Stopping gens in the first however many minutes is important for killers to pip.
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Just make it so instead of random perks in the bloodweb, you can unlock a node that lets you pick one rank in any of the perks you have available. That way people don't spend hours and their rank using undesired perks praying for bloodweb rng.
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I kill waifu characters.
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Solid 4. Lack of direction for their game. Matt Walker on maps. Quick to make superficial changes but avoids making meaningful fixes to core game issues.
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Or the devs could just take the time to make simple minor map edits to make them not god loops.
They'd be pretty quick fixes.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/941885#Comment_941885
That's not a problem with all maps. I'm fine with a couple of safe pallets just remove god windows already.
I'm not ok with "safe" loops at all. A "safe loop" implies that a killer can mind-game or fake-out a survivor as much as they want, they'll still never get a hit. I'd ideally want all loops to be unsafe loops that force both killer and survivor to reach each other and mind-game accordingly, seeing how the only real "skill expression" in the loop game is mindgaming.
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Honestly, if the devs cut out the extremely safe loops of the game, or at least cut down on their number, the game would be fine. You know, trim out the god-loops, shorten the map sizes a bit, reduce the number of safe loops.
It would equalize the non-looping killers and looping killers, so the game would be winnable versus a survivor who can read mindgames. A lot of maps just end up being break-the-pallet simulators due to the sheer amount of safe loops (cowshed/ironworks/mother's house) that spawn.
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The gen won't repair while its still smoking for 3 seconds after its damaged, so they're actually doing the right thing by stopping repair to avoid another skill check.
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you cam nerf ruin by hitting the skill check.
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Devs rework entire killers but won't make minor mapping changes to close godloops. Shrug.
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The real question is why shouldn't she. You never want to let someone unhook for free -if she hasn't found someone else to attack in the time it taked to unhook, it's a good move on her part to punish an unhook and start a new chase.
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If only the map designers didn't think "long-wall loops" are good for killers. Matt Walker you hack.
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@KeepDCPenalties said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/936339#Comment_936339
If you want a build to be viable, you need to take it.
No, you aren't required to take it. Some killers have enough map presence to create pressure early such that Ruin can be forgone. Corrupt Intervention helps trapping killers herd survivors into areas that they have trapped, and serves the function of a more reliable ruin alternative. Pop Goes the Weasel helps killers who can get early downs selectively kill earlygame survivor pressure to an acceptable degree. Ruin isn't required.
I agree that survivors have initiative in any match, and the game is balanced around bad survivors - thus good survivors break balance, but I definitely do not think Ruin is required.
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While I agree it would be good for overall game/balance health to add a second objective with similar urgency to what Ruin provides, I do not think the answer is to make Ruin basekit.
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You're not required to take it. Ruin isn't the issue, ultimately its map design and devs not having a solution to the fact that a good survivor alone can waste enough time that a Killer is walking away with a 0k.
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Because Claudettes have everything any other survivor has, plus camouflage. The frame and color of the character lets a player hide in plain sight AND does anything else a survivor of different appearance does. If you want to win, why not pick a character that exploits the lack of an, i don't know, f---ing BRIGHTNESS SLIDER???? to win.
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Borrowed time to guarantee unhooks
Resilience to turn close calls into free loops
Dead-Hard to turn "barely made it"s into "made it and mores" in terms of loops.
Adrenaline to destroy any non-NOED killers' pressure on 5-gen
or Unyielding to make playing Injured with Resilience into a genrush perk.
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I think the conception that "All killers are viable" comes from the flawed ranking system. It is far, far easier to rank up as survivor than it is to do so as killer, which often leads to complete or semipotatoes ending up in red ranks. This means playing at Red Ranks can be quite inconsistent for killer, in which some games are and breeze and others are unwinnable simply due to the high variance in survivor skill at the rank.
"Viable" is a strange term for DbD with no set win condition. If you mean "Being able to win at Red ranks", that's easy - you'll roll enough potato opponents to justify that you "can" win at red ranks. If "Viability" means that the game is within your hands - that if you play correctly you can consistently perform well- then I don't think all killers are viable. Survivors have a great many ways of wasting your time that many killers have no way to mitigate, enough that many killers rely on punishing mistakes instead of actually exerting pressure.
Tldr survivors have "Initiative" in most matchups.
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God no, adding extra functionality to perks would mean they'd need to nerfed to compensate. You'd just need to grind even more (EVEN MORE THAN WE DO ALREADY) to get functionality out of perks. If you don't nerf them to compensate they'd be OP as all get out, and this game already has major balance issues.
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If the Killer is to ideally rank up by hooking survivors 3 times each, that is 12 chases they need to complete. Generators take 80 seconds to complete and multiple can tick down at the same time.
Assuming high rank survivors, 2 gens generally pop before a killer can begin their momentumn with the first hook. That leaves 3 gens left to do, and in that span a killer needs to complete 11 chases. Assuming only 1 gen is being worked on from then onwards, the killer now has 4 minutes to complete 11 chases before adrenaline risks all the momentumn going out of the game. That means you ideally need to find, chase, down, and get a hook without slugging every 21 seconds - quite a tough feat for most killers, espevially if the survivor is not injured.
Realistically, a killer uses their power and other tactics (punishing unhooks etc) to end chases quickly, but survivors' looping or stealth can drastically extend the time it takes to end a chase. There are numerous loops on every map that are unmitigatable,which means a killer needs to either waste time chasing at them or leave them to find another survivor - to make it more dire, at some point the killer is going to need to eat said loops and kick pallets to ensure later chases don't use the loop. It is certainly not out of the realm of possibility for a killer to be strung between safe loops for over a minute -which eats into the time he has to hook other survivors.
To add a cherry on top,survivors can make things harder for the killer by bringing Toolboxes and perks, which cut gen time down significantly, Exhaustion perks which can critically extend chases, as well as get things like lucky pallet or flashlight saves, DS, BT, other perks that make it much more difficult for a killer to punish a survivor misplay. Taking into account the normal flow of things 12 downs within 500 seconds or less seems mythical without numerous egregious survivor misplays or mispositions.
Unfortunately, the game's semi-casual nature ensures no real balance arguments can be made...
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When I play, I set 3 kinds of traps.
The first are the most obvious - traps that will help at loops. Usually placed on the strong side of a loop in a way that the camera whip will screw up a survivor. These help with chases and you need these at jungle gyms / safe loops or else you can lose the game trying to get hits at them.
The second are traps that interrupt survivors' pathing. Usually placed at choke points or places where survivors commonly run in-transit to unhooks, gens, or moving around the map in general away from pallets. These can net you hits very quickly, and even if you can't teleport to them you get information as to where survivors are.
The third are traps to "guard" something like a hook or a totem. Pretty self explanatory, makes for good Devour Hope or Make your Choice stacks.
If you put your back right up against a wall, especially a corner, and place a trap, you'll put it close enough to camera-whip a survivor into a wall.
You should not try to cover the entire map with traps, generally. Especially on larger ones, they'll just get tripped and unless you're running both a range addon and an egg addon, the trap will be gone by the time you get there. It's better to cordon off about 40 to 60% of the map as "yours" and carry survivors to hooks in that area. The game generally actually "begins" for you at 2-3 gens left, and you don't want it to get to the endgame collapse, in my experience.
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The hatch in general feels like robbery in most games as killer. It's extremely frustrating when you play well enough to smash 3 survivors only for the 4th to escape not because they played well, but because the hatch was in favorable position. Especially when keys come into the equation, having multiple survivors be able to escape early with 1 or 2 gens left (when killer is strongest and at their most desperate) feels terrible, as the survivors are essentially skipping the height of the killers' power with no input from the other side. The hatch exists to stop games from being taken hostage, but more often just acts as a way to de-pip a killer without them being able to do anything about it.
The game is supposed to have similar goal-posts - the killer is supposed to get 4 survivors through hook phases before they complete 5 generators. Keys and Moriis move the basic goalposts of the game.
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You can run without ruin, but it generally means the game starts for you at 2 generators. You're really relying on having a small area to defend with a 4-3gen so you can actually rotate, and if you lose pressure on survivors (if they're not all injured, or if someone is not on the hook or down at all times) your game is pretty much over. Ruin gives you quite a bit of time to "spin up" and thus in the mid-end game lets you have more time to re-establish pressure if you lose it.
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While survivor can certainly be frustrating when you have potato teammates you can do nothing to fix, I would say playing killer is far more stressful because of how much work you need to put in for so little payoff. Survivors have many perks that can make your life harder/ make you have to play so much harder, if you make a mistake micro or macro-wise it can cost you the game. Literally, if you swing too late at a pallet and miss a hit you could have downed a survivor on, you lose pressure on the game for at least 20 or 30 more seconds, which can lead to a gen or two popping... etc. etc. Given how the game is balanced, you need to squeeze every second you can out of survivors to have a chance at winning.
What's worse is when you make a mistake you know cost you the game, you have to play the rest of it out for points to recoup your addons, and deal with 1 or 2 hothead survivors teabagging you good-bye at the gates because they're "better" than you.
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Kick both moriis and keys and I'll be happy. Both of them delete gameplay and are unsatisfying for either side.
Rarity has nothing to do with how something functions in game. Something can't be broken, even if you "only run into it every 10 or 20 games". Rarity is and always will be a stupid argument for something's power.
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Ghostface's stealth is what makes him good since his stalk is only very situationally better than just hitting someone outright from shroud.
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he needs to carry 2 traps by default so you can run 2 real addons on him.
Currently we're stuck running a bag addon to make him playable and then only one addon we actually choose. It'd be nice to actually be able to experiment and find good builds without gimping yourself to a single trap.
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Because the bloodweb system is terrible, from the addons to the different ranks of perks to the teachables system.
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@BeanieBoyBob said:
Wasn't there supposed to be a pallet rework for all maps in order to shorten loops and minimize pallets per area? Did that just get scrapped completely?
I do agree any Killer game from Rank 1-6 is no longer enjoyable, and using the same three killers gets extremely boring for both sides after so long.
If only Matt Walker didn't think "Long-wall loops" were good for killers lol. Good luck trying to ask for map changes in unfer a year.
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Camping is the killer sitting at or very close to the hook for no reason, trading their global presence for local presence around the hook where it is unwarranted. If there's someone around, it ain't camping.
Tunneling is a killer targetting the same person on and off-hook in an attempt to have them sacrificed and out of the game asap. It's a way of bullying the weak link to make the game a 3v1 as quickly as possible.
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Because girls who play the game want to look good/cute and guys who play the game want eyecandy. It sells, and motivates players who already have Adam to drop more cash for the Yui DLC.
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There's also a "long-wall" window that can spawn facing the killer shack. Matt Walker at his best, map design 4head.
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Play Billy instead.
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You make a simple mistake here - balancing around high level play means that you're operating under the assumption that people will strive to play better. Dead by Daylight occupies a twilight niche in-between competitive and party game such that it is hard to balance around either without losing population and thus $$$.
Balancing around the higher levels of play is a bad idea, because it would mean nerfing survivors as a whole (by assuming they're playing in a coordinated, play to win mindset) since they're quite strong then buffing/nerfing killers in comparison to that. This will kill the game because A. if more people want to win competitively, they'll want it to be in their own hands and not in a teammates, so they'll queue killer = huge queue times and B. Solo survivors (a lot of the community) not wanting to play in a game that's balanced around SWF. If solo survivor is buffed to be equal to SWF, most killers would quit by the time the devs buff killers to par, because they honestly work quite slowly and don't address the legitimate concerns of balance in the game - thus, if solo survivor was buffed to be on par to SWF, the amount of killer players at such a level would dwindle to the point of killing the game before they got the balance right.
Balancing the game around a party-game level is also a bad idea because we have a ranking system. Rank means nothing right now and will likely continue to mean nothing because the Killer rank system is flat out contradicts playing efficiently and the survivor rank system is Freelo which means being r1 survivor is a joke.
Not to mention this whining of "survivors have been nerfed from the beginning" which is a load of bull. I want to put a stake into the heart of this "survivors always nerfed" argument because a ton of the nerfs that they have had are clearly needed. The game used to have double-window or pallet tiles with guaranteed fast-vaults, and killers vaulted at a greatly decreased speed. Just look at the game years before and you'll see how absolutely awful it was to play killer vs survivors who knew how to loop. The survivor "nerfs" have been warranted as the average survivor realizes how much of a killers' time they can waste of they play semi-consciously.
The worst part is, based on these forums, a lot of people play this game as a party game with made-up rules like "let someone live for free"...etc. With a vocal part of the community playing this as some weird RP chatroom with no chat, or some strange party game, it'll never be balanced competitively at the expense of them. People are just plain bad.
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The first part of balancing the game is treating it like it's a competitive game and then balancing around the ideal of high level play. Current DBD is balanced like a party game, since the game is split between being competitive and being a party game, it's easier to cash out of casuals.
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They don't support it. It's a strategy that people use that's good at winning vs uncoordinated and altruistic survivors. It's the good way for the killer to utterly lose and the only way the killer wins is if you ######### on hook so he can camp someone else.
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It's funny when people are surprised the more viable killers have a killrate of around 70% in red ranks. Even if those numbers are true, are they really unexpected or even problematic?
If you're in red ranks, you need 3 kills at least to pip per game. A viable killer is able to do well in red ranks, at least enough to be playable without depipping. If a killer is red ranks viable, then they're going to have around a 70% killrate because you need to 3k more often than not to stay in Red Ranks. Remind me, how is this problematic?
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It's not really a "counter" to keys as it is a way to complicate their use. Keys are kinda hard to see, and knocking them out of someone's hand essentially gives them another objective every time they're out of a chase with you : grabbing their key back. It makes the keyholder waste time, which means they're less likely to get out unless they're super immersed blendette with key people.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873433#Comment_873433
I never played ghostface, but doesn't he have addons which reduce his power recovery and allows him to go back to stealth mode in just 16 seconds again?
Yes, but using those means he can't use any of his other addons, which is a big deal if you are going for stalkface. If you don't care about stalking, he's near-viable with no addons.
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@THEghostface said:
"Relying on your enemy to make a mistake is an unreliable strategy" we are talking about Ghost Face, a killer who's weakness is a survivor's map awareness, which if they lack that awareness against him, they are prone to mistakes if too late to correct them with last second preparation. Those mistakes even apply with with the anti-heal build, given they bother healing, eventually learning that you are using Nurse's Calling, if the build wasn't a dead giveaway already. There are a few perks, one in particular no one really looks at, that counter this build easily. I stopped using the build and went back to traditional methods of gameplay once they figured ways around the build's penalties towards them, resulting in relying on NC to be rather time wasting. Now, you can always go for those silent basic attacks, and those indeed can mean catching an injured survivor with their guard down. It can possibly take too much time against a healthy survivor, give or take their experience with the game. Quicker hooks through surprise exposed downs can add-on to what already makes the build strong when needed at the right time. I once saw a GF use the build, but noticed quickly how we were beginning to take the upper hand against him. He began throwing in some stalking, and that managed to turn the tide back in his favor, because he didn't want to waste any time looking for someone healing, while others that were healthy, were on gens. Either playstyle really works with him, and one is not higher than the other as they are both powerful, especially when used together . It just really depends on the choices of the player using him that can determine the game.
And that's why I think he isn't broken, more than he is an actually good design BHVR stumbled upon unintentionally. The versatility of his power, intended or not, allows killers to take a variety of builds into a game and be reasonably viable (note, not excessively viable....) versus well-coordinated rank 1's, and not be too hardly gimped for being played as intended.
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@THEghostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873714#Comment_873714
Even at rank 1, you'd be surprised how unobservative people can be vs a Ghost Face. Usually when it comes to either marking a survivor and ambushing them for the instadown, or going for the silent m1, it's all about situation with this killer. Using only one half can lead to mixed results, but using BOTH strategies helps him the most, and I believe that's what most of the community is missing about him. To clarify your judgement on exposing being pointless:
- For one, just don't mark them from ridiculously far away. Be close enough and not come from a predictable location to catch them off guard.
- Marking and downing survivors can add much more pressure than wasting potential minutes in a regular chase only.
-Some cases, you can intimidate others by marking them, but not approaching them as you might be closer to another player than they are to you. This can cause distortion and panic in the marked survivor. (This is not as favorable, but a fun thing to do)
- like I said, leaning when stalking is crazy fast, and wastes far less time then what regular stalking (without add-ons) can last for.
With the inconsistencies of his reveal phase being true, "the reveal through walls" issue is nowhere as common as people say it is judging from my experience playing the killer. That is a poor assumption to call his power's other half that people seem to dislike "bad".
First of all, I'd say that relying on your enemy to make a mistake is an unreliable strategy. It's not a bad strategy, but it's one most killers in this game are forced into. I don't think you should base your power on a survivor not being observant, especially when there are marauding survivors out there that know what your killer does and can read mindgames.
Secondly, I think you miss the point of what a no-stalk ghostface is made for. Stalk Ghostface does what you do above, and quite well, but I need to stress that No-Stalkface is different because the strengths are different. Stalkface makes you jump thru all of the hoops you mention above, and take extra time in your rotating to gens making sure you can ensure a good stalk vs reasonable alert survivors. No-Stalkface barges in with a free first-hit, and that first hit...
A. makes that survivor functionally "stalked" (1-hit down) until they get healed with both Sloppy Butcher and Thanatophobia penalties + the time it takes for a teammate to get to them
B. Applies Thanatophobia to all survivors, rewarding you slightly for damaging a survivor. Furthermore, makes them likely to proc your Nurses' calling, which works super-well when you can remove your TR and surprise attack or re-injure healing survivors.
C. Lets you continue the chase just like if you have marked them, except they cannot alleviate your mark by looping you for 1 minute to expire the mark.
This is far less conditionally helpful, less map dependent, and less dependent on your enemies than a stalk build. It's more reliable, it exploits survivors' meta instincts, and doesn't rely on a dubiously reliable reveal mechanic. It relies less on the survivors making mistakes or misreading your plays, and more on concentrating your reliable stealth on a productive end. That's why people are ranking up with it - because it produces reliable results with less effort than the convoluted Stalkface, especially vs coordinated teams.
In short, I'd say an injured survivor is an exposed survivor, and a survivor spends more time injured than exposed. Why not exploit that, especially if you're stealthy in both occasions?
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@THEghostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873653#Comment_873653
The point of Ghost's stalk playstyle is to conceal yourself behind cover more often so than stalking regularly, which should never be done unless add-ons are applied or you are marking someone in a quick moment. Stalking in plain sight as Ghost Face is a bad play in general for many things, as you are given more incentive to use the lean mechanic for its more powerful effect. Sometimes, I think the community forgets that leaning doubles the rate of stalk progression, which is faster than Michael's stalk rate, and that's in Ghost Face's base kit. People who call it useless for sure do not stalk properly or are inefficient at stealth plays, which is disappointing in the hands of a stealth killer.
Again,I do have to say that time spent stalking a survivor needs to be less than the amount of time you spend getting the exposed hit on them for it to be worth using. Most survivors with eyes will see you when stalking from most conventional spots and start moving to get distance to mitigate the time loss of them being exposed, such that it isn't worth or they outlast the mark if they're good at looping. The time spent carefully evading their gaze, I factor into the time you spend "stalking" to mitigate the first health state, and oftentimes I find it not worth it for the time you spend setting up a stalk for unreliable payoff, especially when people can reveal you thru walls right now.
I don't see the benefit of exposing a survivor vs injuring them. If you sucker-punch them with the shroud, you get them injured, you can chase if you want just like if you stalk, or you can leave them. Stalk takes 60 sec to expire, in a chase or not - injure lasts until they can find someone to heal them, plus you cna exploit nurses's off of it and repeat stealth attacks. I see not contest tbh. Stalkface isn't worth the time unless ur really good better than the survivors ur facing in that case what's the point.
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Stalking as ghostface has too many drawbacks to be viable. There's no point in stalking an injured survivor when an injured one can loop you as well as a health one, without the risk of you losing your "one-shot down" on them. There's no point in playing stalkface against survivors with eyes when you'll just be playing a discount meyers who can be put on cooldown, plus if you hit a survivor you have stalk on, you've wasted your time. No-stalk ghostface is popular because a streamer (Truetalent?) figured out a perk build that synergizes with it, and a majority of Ghostface players found it more effective than spending time stalking.
Stalking is a mechanic that, in GF's place, takes too much investment for meager payoff that survivors can mitigate. The first part of his stalk grants him instant benefit and survivors cannot control it - thus, it works as a power, especially when used with good perks. I'll say it again, God forbid a killer use his power without gimping himself for survivors.
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they're actually probably checks so that BHVR can find data to ban farming lol.