Killer is about being robbed.
>Be killer
>9 hook game, kill 3 survivors
>Hatch spawns
>black pip
Is the hatch really necessary? It's a terrible band-aid fix. When will we hold BHVR accountable for the absolutely abysmal "Stalemate-breaker" they have spawned? Are they even looking for a better solution?
Comments
"Are they even looking for a better solution?"
I seriously doubt it, though obviously I couldn't say for sure.
The hatch would be a lot better if the devs treated it as it should be treated: an RNG consolation prize. Killers shouldn't be punished if survivors get out through the hatch. That alone would make killers feel a lot less crappy about hatch escapes. Survivors get a large reward for hatch escapes (they shouldn't), and killers lose out on BP and emblem points (they shouldn't). I've had the hatch spawn right under my feet when the third survivor died and I got to just hop through it without even having to search. Because it's RNG. And the game shouldn't treat getting lucky in that manner like some big accomplishment.
stop caring about rank, stop caring about pipping or not, it is meaningless.
This is my point. The devs are not looking into the underlying mechanics of the hatch and what makes it so, quite frankley, brainless.
Killers just have to slug for the 4k - no one likes this. No one likes key escapes except terrible key surviviors. So why does the hatch still exist?
I don't camp because rank penalizes me. I allow unhooks because the only way I pip is a 10 to 11 hook game. If I let that go, I'll be a camper. What now?
Make it Basekit. Killers can morii one survivor once per match.
Sounds bad? It is. Hence; Hatch.
really? you play entirely to how the game demands you to play for a "high score"? really?
honestly this is like those religious people asking why someone who is not religious doesnt go around commiting horrible crimes...
What is fun about camping...what is the point? might as well watch paint dry, I take it you play a videoGAME to have fun right?
I HIGHLY doubt you got black pip, if you really hooked 9 times and got 3 kills. Black pip, or even Entity Displeased is something that occurs to me only on two occasions: I play as Myers with both Iri add-ons, to try and get that stupidly difficult "Evil Incarnate" achievement or I destroy survivors in the first few minutes, without a single gen getting to 50%, so I end up scoring too few points. Other than that, it is extremely easy to rack up some points to at least net you the first pip. Hatch isn't a problem, really. Sure, when I play killer I'd like a 4k too. But that doesn't mean I'm going to cry in a corner, trying some vodoo cursing because I didn't get a 4k.
And about things being really necessary, I ask you this: Is it really necessary to have exit gates spawn next to each other, possibily with a hill in between, so the killer can camp doors too, on top of hooks? Killers always whine about what is "unfair" for them, yet nobody ever points out how exit gates are broken. And what does that mean? It means you don't want survivors to have the hatch, but it also means you don't want them to stand a chance at escaping = I want a 4k every game.
God, people still don't get this in 2020, do they?
Killers are NOT entitled to get a 4K every match. Get out of that mentality that is more braindead than Freddy is, please.
Survivors are NOT entitled to escape every match.
Of course, sadly, nobody can stop you from slugging because you feel like "Me want 4 kills, me good boy". But this is a VIDEOGAME. Videogames are meant to be FUN, to have you SPEND time without THINKING too much into it. Getting all sweaty because you feel like you deserve 4 kills for the sole reason that you think you do, is quite the opposite.
I can do something like that with one hook, does that count? (Never hook anyone all match, they decide to stick around after the exit gate was opened, I hook one, the four of them discover I have Bloodwarden and the EGC timer is almost up. True story, good times. Four kills with one hook and no slugs is more amusing than it has any right to be.)
The way the game is designed—
wait, I just had this conversation in a different thread. Here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1817442#Comment_1817442
Getting rid of the hatch would actually be a really complicated thing because it would require restructuring (or creating any structure at all, really) the game. Without the hatch, upon the third survivor's death the fourth might as well just get automatically sacrificed to the entity because their chances of escape would be so abysmally small why even bother. Hell, I've had matches where as the last survivor I just get the killer's attention and point to a hook because I'm bored and just want it to be over. But... is that fun for killers? Are we proud of a win where the fourth didn't even care, didn't bother to put up a fight?
I dunno, maybe it would be better if killing 3 out of 4 resulted in an automatic death for the fourth survivor. The majority are dead, the team lost, killer wins.
Or maybe three kills should be the maximum number of kills a killer can get in a match. Like a horror movie, there's always a final survivor, the one who gets away. Multiple survivors can escape through the exit gate, yes, but if three die then the fourth is just "the final girl/guy" and the match ends.
Anyway, my crazy ideas aside, if the hatch is removed with the game as it is now, one way or another the match really would have to just automatically end, otherwise we'd get survivors stealthing around the map doing nothing except holding the killer hostage, and I hated that back before the EGC. Just bored out of my skull when they'd do that. So, that's why the hatch exists: it gives the final survivor something to do, a goal that is actually attainable so the game continues for them, and between the hatch and the EGC the killer is given the ability to make sure the match ends quickly so everyone can move on and neither side can take the game hostage.
Oh, crap. I apologize, this response is actually quite long. Um, hopefully it's worth the read? (Really sorry.)
I mean, yeah they have nowhere to run....sooo what did you accomplish? what did you gain? what was this terrific amazing gaming feat you pulled off?
I mean its like going for an unhook with the full survivor meta, wow, such a gamer, such skill....
Or playing doom wiht iddqd entered in, again, what is the point, dont you want any challenge? something where you can be somewhat proud of yourself?
I hear you on this. And I am trying. But after years of playing this game, I have been conditioned that a pip means you performed well.
Imagine in monopoly, after passing go, you had to pay 200 dollars.
Not as fun.
Adept-Players will disagree.
you mean noed users? who run it and get their pity 1-2k at the end? already here chief, just not base kit quite yet.
Nah, the ranking system is pretty bad. Kill the survivors too fast? Sorry, black pip. Every 4k black pip I get is usually followed by a scoff.
Not running any gen slowdown perks? No gatekeeper for you, unless you are absolutely dropping people or the survivors are afraid of holding M1.
Well, I've done it without Bloodwarden, too, it just required slugging which makes for a less amusing anecdote. Multiple matches where I never killed anyone by hooking them; the EGC killed two or three of them, though.
Anyway, I know what you mean, I'm just being jocular about it because this game is a mess, the balance is all over the place, it relies on RNG to make things "fair," and I've gotten so jaded to it that it just doesn't seem worth taking DbD seriously. The EGC killing survivors is the closest thing we'll get to a pity-kill mechanic for killers, and I have seen survivors complain (recently, even) that it's not fair. So, you're not wrong. Anything more drastic than that and the outcry would be deafening.
I don't know if you've been playing killer up at red ranks, but pipping feels more like an exercise in entertaining the survivors than it is about being an effective killer. I already let people off of the hook for rank- no free unhooks but I let them get off - right now I can run an 10 or 11 hook game and still depip as trapper or plague. I can win every loop and play "fair" and still depip because some stupid a-hole gets a free hatch.
Why shouldn't the 4th survivor die?
Really. Survivor is 4 people beating out one. The killer starts at absolute rock bottom with no momentumn and the survivors have a wealth of map resources to use. If the killer forces survivors into a corner, why shouldn't they win
Can the hatch stop being demonised?
The hatch wasn't designed around intentionally “screwing the killer over”, or giving SWF “free passes”.
The game is designed around strong consideration for solo survivors. And solo survivors can end up doing the best the can, and in some cases most of the work, only to get buggered by the other survivors incompetence or recklessness. The hatch offers a small ray of hope for these players, and ensures we have games that keep getting played till the end, rather than survivors more frequently just giving up,
Like seriously? Are these the games a killer wants? Games where hatch doesn’t exist and the last survivor (or last two survivors) just noise spam to get it over with because there isn’t any point trying to survive anymore at that point? Does that sound fun?
I never said the fourth survivor shouldn't die. Hell, I made the suggestion of the fourth survivor just dying automatically. That wasn't sarcasm, that was actual off-the-cuff spitballing. Maybe if the fourth survivor automatically dies when the rest of their team dies, players will play more intelligently and more genuinely altruistically and be less selfish about hook states. Then again, one of the things the devs use as a selling point for the game is that survivors can choose to play selfishly.
It'd actually be more in line with the horror genre if every match had to have at least one survivor live. If the killer literally can't kill the fourth survivor and gets the maximum points from killing three, then it'd be just the same as the fourth automatically dying except that the game still rewards playing selfishly.
for a videogame? yes.... of course...thats why 99.9% of the games are played...
The hatch is stupid design. The killer starts out with no pressure and a deck stacked against them; only through savvy tactics and game knowledge can they create a viable win condition for themselves. No side likes a slug for the 4k. There is no reason why a survivor should escape for free just because they and their whole team failed ad their objective.
yeah, I agree that the current killer ranking system ranges from broken (Hello plague) to unrealistic (4k or blackpip). If 3k or soem other condition became the pip condition, I'd be less upset.
I'm more amazed that the devs still are hiding behind their own game as a shield to avoid taking action. They know how their game is, but make no changes.
For the most part I'm fine with the hatch, really, but there are issues with its design. Namely, that killers feel the hatch screws them over (in other words, the entire reason this thread exists). In the conversation I had with OP above, it seems that his unhappiness with the hatch isn't that the last survivor escapes so much as that there can be a significant point difference between a 3k and a 4k.
I threw out a couple crazy ideas above. I'll throw out a more middle-ground one here. Have the game be designed around the killer getting a 3k. Points are maxed at three kills. Challenges and achievements only ever require three kills. The hatch remains, the fourth survivor has the chance to escape just like they do now. The killer gets no point reward for killing the fourth survivor, but they get the satisfaction of a 4k and maybe some other little non-point related bonus like the last survivor is always mori-able or something so yay! fun animation. (The problem with this idea is that if the killer doesn't care and doesn't even try to stop the last survivor from escaping then it doesn't provide a challenge and won't feel as rewarding. Will killers care about the fourth survivor if killing three is enough? I honestly don't know. Hopefully it would at least mean less slugging for the 4k.)
The entire game is "game breaking". Therefore, trying to nerf something can't be justified cuz it's considered "game breaking".
All it does is create threads and ppl argue over stupid stuff. Why or why isn't something is ground breaking.
Ppl need to stop typing and just go play the game.
Well your clearly an entitled killer main. Like christ you don't want it possible for even 1 person to escape.
yeah goat simulator is boring, but dont fool yourself, people do challenge themselves in those pointless games as well, they want to push the limits of the game in the hope of finding hilarious results, that is a challenge as well, they are trying to do something, accomplish something.
Same for minecraft, if you go design some new castle or something and then build it, the game wont reward or punish you or whatever, its your own rules and objectives, but you are challenging yourself, you have a goal and feel happy when that is achieved when that goal was somethign difficult to do.
Oh trust me, I know red ranks. Still, this doesn't really invalidate all of what I have already said. Unless you are just playing as an M1 killer, without survivors walking into your traps (which means there is some poor placement), without damaging gens and breaking pallets, there really is no way for you to be black pipping. And one survivor gone through the hatch does not prevent you from racking up points during the match, you are just using that as an excuse, I fear, to validate your point. Again, survivors escaping through the hatch has never prevented me from pipping. To be fair, I just double pipped, and the last survivor escaped through the hatch. As you can see, it all comes down to how you play. If you play poorly, the hatch is not a part of your endgame results, friend. Enough said.
But I kind of like the hatch mechanic. It gives the last survivor a better chance to escape, rewarding them for surviving this long in a match. Keys are what allow it to be abused. Along with those blueprints that let you spawn it where you want.
Hatch is necessary.
What do you expect a lone survivor to do, fix the remaining gens and open the doors? If you don't give the other side even a realistic perspective what's the point in playing? And worse, who really want to play a boring game of cat and mouse with the last guy stealthing away to complete objectives?
The hatch is fine. Remove the hatch, and you'll get games where killers can hold the last survivor hostage, stop them from doing generators, but not killing them. And killing 3 survivors shouldn't make the game an insta-win for the killer either. Hatch gives the killer a shot at closing the hatch, or the survivor getting it. Perfectly fair.
Hatch should stay closed the entire game, once you kill 3 survivors the exit gates should power giving the killer a chance instead of drawing out a search of the map for that damned whistle. End game should also start as soon as the 3rd survivor is killed in this case since gate opening times are nothing unless the killer has remember me. And after all that the hatch should spawn after 3 survivors killed and only be opened by a key. Its presence as a free win with 0 work required is abysmal. Imagine if the killer was able to kill the last survivor in 1 hit instead of 2 regardless of health state, same amount of effort in both cases, 0 reason for these things to be considered balanced
Let’s say there is no hatch.......the last survivor could literally urban evade the entire map and you could possibly never find them (ever dealt with a P3 Claudette?) I think the hatch adds a certain urgency to find it and get the hell out. No hatch then what’s the rush? Would you have EGC start at the death of the 3rd player? That could work I guess but if a survivor is ready for that they could just be sitting at an exit and start powering it as soon as that survivor died and escape as well.
The hatch rng I personally think favors the killer MOST of the time. Of course this is just my opinion. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve played killer and the hatch spawn right next to me. A lot more so than when I play survivor in the same scenario. A little trick I’ve learned that works a great bit of the time is when playing survivor let the killer run and find the hatch, 99% of killers will think you are running around looking for it too. Instead go immediately to an exit when you know that 3rd survivor is going to die. As soon as the killer closes the hatch start the exit. I’ve escaped SO many times like this lol.
Back to the topic I think the hatch is a good thing to get the match over with. If I’ve killed 3 people and the last gets the hatch I still chalk that up as a win for me. Playing killer is a lot harder in the aspect of actually pipping up so I don’t think that that last survivor escaping is the cause of your black pip. We’re you not defending gens good enough? We’re you staying around the hooks a lot? How did your chases go? Long? Short? There’s so many variables to say why you didn’t pip, you can’t solely blame the hatch escape. Link a video of you can I would love to see the match.
The only way to increase your chances of getting a pip is to get a 4k or find the hatch location. I understand that slugging for the 4k may be boring for both sides. But you are the one who bought the game dont let people shame you for your playstyle. People who say "stop caring about ranking or pipping" dont understand that this is how you know you won a game.