savevatznick
savevatznick
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You need to kick the generator to activate surveillance. The kick animation generally isn't time well-spent; if you chase a survivor off a generator, you're going to want to secure a hit instead of stunning yourself for two seconds for some measly regression that can be undone in about 5 seconds.
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It's a pretty rough ride and some games, especially certain maps, will make you question why you bother trying.
As a general rule, try to look around early game for gens that have spawned very close to each other, and then dote on those at the expense of others. Try to waste survivors resources in this area so it becomes a dead zone. If all else fails and you grind down to one gen, you'll have a small area of the map with a dead zone around it that survivors will have to go to in order to escape (unless they have a key /shrug). This lets you drag a game out and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat if you manage to hook a survivor in the same area.
Don't let early-game gen pops get into your head. The game starts out with survivors at their strongest, with all their hook states, pallets, and perks up - you need to scope out what areas of the map are strong, avoid them, and waste enough pallets in your first chase that you will have shorter chases later. Yeah, your first chase might be a little long, but without that first down your momentum will never start. If you defend gens correctly, the map will gradually get "smaller" and the safe areas more sparse, leaving survivors with worn out items and on their last hook in a tough situation even though they got 2 or 3 gens done for free. The worst place you can be is having 1 gen left and they're all spread out, and there are safe loops everywhere with pallets.
As Billy, I would say balance being greedy for the instadown with also using your M1 enough that survivors have to drop pallets (they should never be able to comfortably read when you're going to use your saw imo). Some survivors might not even heal versus you because you have an instadown, so having m1 as an option will help, especially if you ate a few loops beforehand.
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It's for roleplay.
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I don't understand why survivors hate slugging so much and call it "boring". Is there really a difference between slugging and being on a hook? At least you can crawl around on the ground.
The choice to slug or hook is actually a pretty interesting one from the Killer's perspective. It's really a symptom of the gen speed / chase time ratio, in that the Killer really cannot reliable finish enough individual chases for a 12 hook game.
Slugging is good because you don't need to essentially stun-lock yourself for about ten to fifteen seconds every time you down a survivor to hook them. You also don't reveal your position for an extended period of time, you can get back to chase sooner, and the survivor on the ground is still for all intents and purposes useless until they are healed. The drawback to slugging are that it does nothing to advance the Killer win condition of hooking survivors. You can slug a survivor as many times as you want, they can always be healed and monkey around again. Until you hook them thrice, they are still in the game. As a side note, a subtle detail of slugging vs unhooking is that a slugged survivor, freshly downed, takes longer to get back up than it takes to unhook one. So at least for a short while, it is actually harder to rescue a slug than a hook.
Hooking survivors kinda stinks compared to slugging. You might lose all of your pressure to survivors saving their friend while you pick them up, you have to animation lock yourself and slowly walk to the hook, etc. If there are multiple survivors in an area, you are essentially giving each of them around 15 seconds to do whatever they want. Even on the unhook, the killer needs to be careful not to hit the survivor on the hook due to their invincibility. The problem is that the killer needs to get hooks on survivors to end the game.
So you are right that slugging slows down the game and gives killers more chances, because the killer can generate pressure more quickly and not be vulnerable during the carrying phase.
You are right that it gives survivors more chances assuming they get picked up, because being slugged and picked up is essentially a free hook state for survivors. You lost a chase and went down, but you aren't losing one of your three limited hook states for it.
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Yeah, it's pretty frustrating to sweat it out as killer, always groaning becaude the survivor knows how to loop you well and their team is pounding gens,etc.
And then you play survivor at low ranks and realize that holy god most of them do absolutely nothing.
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It has the house of pain. It has a ton of safe loops. It's big, hard to get a 3gen on, and it has that awful basement to the school.
This map is where m1 killers go to die.
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Not often. I find that just dropping a GG in the postgame chat and complimenting the enemy on something they did well ends up smoothing things over.
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As survivor, the first thing I do is look for a gen and try to get at least some progress on it.
As Trapper, the first thing I do is look around and identify what loops I'm going to be playing, then try to set traps around the area I want to play. Picking up as many traps as possible is key for me, because I need them nearby; I move them a lot.
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My problem with Blood Warden is that, since the Endgame Collapse, it has been largely useless because survivors 99 the exit gates to circumvent the Collapse altogether.
I like this change because it actually gives a reason for the killer to open the exit gates and start the countdown. The changes you describe here seem like they could open up a whole new level of strategy to the EGC. I'd really like to see something like this.
On a side note, the companion perk to Blood Warden, Remember Me, could regress exit gate opening progress like Ruin.
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@scenekiller said:
Why do killers think Haddonfield is so bad?
I'm not asking this sarcastically or anything, I just don't really play killer (and def haven't on Haddonfield the occasional time I do) so I don't know what the experience is like, and I'm curious.
It spawns with the House of Pain AND the Myers House as well as other houses with balconies, which are either ridiculously strong loops if spawned correctly or just massive timewasters when the survivors camp the upper floor.
Almost every pallet that spawns on the map has at least one extremely safe side - The picnic tables, the ambulance, the car and truck loops. Even worse, these loops can be augmented by the long white fences spawning windows near them, sometimes even facing the pallet, creating chainable pseudo-infinites with no mindgame.
Even without the strong loops, the very long corridors between houses separated by waist-high shrubs can be looped by survivivors to force you to give them an out /push them towards a safe area, since you can't just build bloodlust forever.
TL:DR Survivors will always see you coming, they will always have a strong place to run.
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Trapper's green and yellow mangling traps addons. Survivors shouldn't escape your traps, and if they do they'll be too far away for a mangle to even matter.
Hag's Waterlogged shoe just makes her worse Freddy.
Wraith's breaking addons while cloaked are also really useless because if you take the time to cloak and then break the pallet, you really aren't gaining any time.
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Pig's RBT's killing survivors who escape even if they are inactive. She was a lategame monster of a killer who could extend the match beyond the exit gates opening and made good use of endgame perks that no other killer does.
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Hag is worth your hard-ground points 100%.
On her own, she is a great killer. You could argue that she doesn't even need perks nore add-ons to be effective. She is one of the few, if only basekit killers who functions at 100% viability right out of the box. Her perks are also great. Ruin and Devour Hope's reputation precede them, and Third Seal is OK for a meme build.
Clown has some good perks. Pop goes the Weasel is great, bamboozle and Coulorophobia are OK in some situations and maps. But Clown on his own is a pretty terrible killer. He needs addons amd you get very little out of him per hour of mastery put in.
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There's very few tiles where you actually run straight back from the pallet, so I don't think it'd generate many hits....doesn't LoPro also make the Chainsaw not instadown?
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Your objective is to defend the generators. Survivors HAVE to do 5 generators to escape (Unless they have a key but we'll ignore that.)
Every time you commit to a chase, consider what generators could be being repaired while you do so. At times it is better to patrol your gens to catch survivors out of position to get free hits before they even get to a loop.
Some things to remember:
Can the survivor read your mindgames? Stop wasting your own time and bruteforce some pallets out of the way.
Is the survivor running you away from the generators you're protecting? Drop chase.
Does the survivor have a map spawn with a ton of safe loops in a row? Drop chase.
Eventually you do have to commit sooner or later to generate any kind of real pressure. Now that survivors are catching on to how good medkits actually are, it is less helpful to just injure a survivor and let them go.
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You could play Killer. It's fun as long as you're ok with losing. You might even learn a few things that make you better at survivor.
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1879580#Comment_1879580
Yeah it was a dock and the only way to effectively run a doc is to chain tiles and i had shack into a long wall vault gym kept him there for ages. kept trying to shock me but i kept alternating tiles.
Yeah, see, he got mad because there isn't really anything he can do there until you make a mistake. He should know that the area you ran him in is basically a "No chase zone" and left as soon as he saw the unfavorable window spawn.
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A killer should not blame you because you ran them for a long time. It is good that you know how to exploit playing tiles well.
They were probably mad at the game. Did you chain them through a bunch of safe loops? It is very frustrating to know that an area is a timesink and survivors are basically invincible there until all the pallets are gone.
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I think it's be a QoL to do the opposite. Get this annoying whispering out of my ears when I'm playing Plague with Purge! It's arguably the most important time to hear people as Plague and you can hear nothing.
I have to hear
- The Plague's purge whispers, which are loud and breathy just like survivor sounds
- Once I'm in a chase, I have to hear blaring loud chase music because BHVR hasn't decided whether sound is important to the game or not.
- Whispers, because I run whispers on Plague to locate and infect ASAP
It makes the whole game sound like a jumbled mess. Get rid of it.
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The Bloodweb is actually a pretty bad system of progression when you think about it. It is sustained entirely by add-ons being limited use, which basically means you need to grind to play the way you want to play (or even to keep your killer viable).
Just nuke the grind. Give all addons and perks. For both sides.
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Dead Hard is fine and is one of the few perks that survivors have which offers interesting gameplay and decision-making on its own.
Unbreakable can lose its recovery speed buff. Tenacity (Tapp's perk) already is the perk for recovering while slugged.
Decisive strike should de-activate as soon as a survivor touches a generator or begins cleansing a totem.
Iron Will needs whatever sound bugs fixed that make it so you can hear footsteps again.
We'll Make It goes down to +50% healing speed, duration to 30s. This perk is ridiculous and destroys killer momentum if they don't camp. It is sleeper meta in my opinion.
Right now, the perk combination of DS / UB functions as an extra hook state for survivors, because if you don't chase them they will get 60 seconds to do whatever they want, and if you down them you cannot advance your win condition of hooking them. It turns the already rarely feasible 12 down 12 hook game into a 16 down 12 hook game, which isn't going to happen. Hence, killers end up having to tunnel people down and play close to hook.
I think most of the overbearing killer perks have been ironed out.
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Getting one survivor out of the game as quickly as possible gives you the time to afford actual chases instead of patrolling and hitting mispositioned survivors. You don't have to tunnel per se, but it is usually best to chase the weak link down and get them out of the game first.
Once the first survivor goes down as long as you have one person on the hook and are searching for the others, the rest cannot work on gens
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I can imagine four survivors beating some poor Wraith to death, stun-locking him so he can't uncloak.
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I'd like to see some sort of medieval knight character.
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To fix what isn't broken.
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Most people run it for the Bloodpoint boost, since playing Killer can be very BP-expensive due to having to restock sometimes essential Add-ons. The BP incentive of the BBQ means people often run it on killers who would be best served by a different tracking perk. Really, only characters with good map mobility make the best of the information given by BBQ.
No, it isn't OP.
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They're very risky, but can be immensely powerful. Once you get something like Devour Hope stacked and running, survivors will be scrambling to cleanse the totem ASAP.
Certain killers with map mobility or traps can do a fantastic job of defending their hex totems provided they can get there before the survivors can. Undying still helps in that regard, as someone like Billy can drop everything to defend their totem, or Hag can just trap her totem. The sad reality of Hex totems is that even if you set out to defend them, the survivors might just spawn on top of it and leave you with no chance.
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I agree. The wiping animation should definitely be shortened by at least half a second. The survivor already gets a speed boost versus the killer slowing down
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Ghostface. Almost purely an M1 Killer, with good mindgame potential at loops.
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I love Brutal Strength when I run it. I just hate being animation locked. Any perk that eases the screaming pain of being locked inside of a lumbering half-blind and deaf refridgerator is a good perk.
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Blood Warden basekit when?
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What always helps me is to just focus on the fundamentals of the game as Killer. Really learn your lunge distances, focus on ekeing out hits on survivors while they waste the pallet (They drop and still take a hit). Experiment with just brute-forcing loops and only kicking pallets,experiment with your mindgames.
Don't take losses personally. Treat every game like a learning experience.
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No free unhooks ever.
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Arguably Sloppy Butcher is better to counteract the medkits by wasting charges more quickly.
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I mean, they know it is a problem. They know it has been a problem for years. They still haven't changed it, despite it being frequently cited as one of the worst cases of add-on imbalance. I'll give them a soft time limit of 2 years. That's about when I expect them to deal with Iri Head.
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They probably haven't played in a long time and their rank has decayed. The hours played does not factor into rank at all, and since DBD has regular rank resets, they probably fell down. They also could have wasted time intentionally de-ranking, but that's their loss and wasted life.
Get used to that kind of situation. Oftentime green ranked survivors get matched against red-rank killers. Broken matchmaking seems to be a feature, not a bug.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1870662#Comment_1870662
Theoretically, if a 4 good survivors, went up against a high mmr killer what would the outcome be.
Depends on the killer, and the map. I'd say versus a majority of the roster on a good portion of the maps, the survivors would definitely be favored.
I don't think most M1 killers would be able get enough injures and waste enough resources to carry through to the endgame versus survivors who played well.I don't even think a better killer like Huntress, given a bad map spawn, would have a chance versus optimal survivors unless she was running Iri head and hit every single shot quickly.
The problem again is the ranking system. There's such a huge gap between a Rank 1 Survivor who plays like a green rank, and a Rank 1 survivor who is legitimately good at reading mindgames, managing their time, etc. The term "Red Rank" seems so useless when evaluating the balance of the game.
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Pretty much. If everyone was "good" at Dead By Daylight, playing it would be awful on both sides. You'd only see a couple of killers played, there would be about ten meta perks used for both survivor and killer, and some maps would just be death sentences for one side or the other.
I doubt you'll ever see that, though. This game has a pretty regular trickle of new blood flowing into it. People who actually get good at the game get bored and leave. The ranked system is awful - there are survivors who should not even be purple ranks in red ranks, and that means killers get boosted by bad survivors being easy snacks for them. The MMR system (which I expect to once again be a fantastic failure) will also keep mismatching players.
The devs will continue to refuse to acknowledge how unbalanced the game is when everyone is trying to win because, well. They won't find enough games in the statistics to support it, because once again, the way they match and rank players is broken. So the 4man sweatsquad SWF or ascended psychic Nurse will continue to be a painful anecdote everyone recounts, but nothing will be done about it.
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It is to remind you that you are playing Mario Party.
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I don't know how they gave a look at those two killers, who have arguably been not-so-good for a good long while, and thought these pretty minor changes are going to make their performance improve. I find it extremely hard to believe that the Devs just looked at Wraith and thought "Here, invisible at a certain distance. He's fine now!".
Same with Trapper - you go through all the trouble to even out the math on his trap escape chances, but you can't go in and change the number of traps he can carry at basekit from 1 to 2?
What are they even doing? Are they just doing the eternal procrastination strategy? They're going to get all the add-ons in one "addon pass", so they can't touch the killer's kit in the meantime? They went in and tweaked Freddy's Swing Chains/ Jump Rope pretty quickly once people whined about it enough, but they can't change Iridescent Head, or do any basekit changes to struggling killers.
What are they even doing?
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Yes, it's a terrible map. It's just a long, circular hallway that makes it impossible to cut a survivor off and forces you to hold W for 15 seconds before even getting into a chase. Once you've even caught up, there is a safe pallet in every room (and some god pallets with the breakable walls up). It is both boring to play and incredibly survivor-sided for m1 killers.
Good luck getting them to change it within the next two years now. BHVR devs move slower than the speed of government - they rework like, three maps every couple months.
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The counterplay to getting slugged is not all going down at the same time.
You got slugged because you went down. You lost the chase. If all of you somehow got downed without reviving each other, your team is in a total failure state. Even then, you still have the 4% chance to kobe off the hook.
That is why Unbreakable is so strong. It is a second chance for survivors that can make up for even the worst of mistakes.
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Coldwind maps, especially Torment Creek and Fractured Cowshed. There are so, so many safe pallets where the most reliable and best move at any of them is to just loop, kick pallet, etc. God forbid they get good tile spawns and can chain tiles.
Midwich is also a terrible buttcheeks map. I don't know which map designer thought "Long circular hallway with pallets in every room" was a good idea, but it wasn't. It just means you have to hold w for an inordinate amount of time before even getting into chase, then end up having to play a tile with a breakable wall.
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The problem of the key is the problem of the hatch. It is a terrible solution to survivors taking the game hostage.
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Never ascribe malice to what can be explained by incompetence. I think it has been pretty clear which side BHVR falls on. There are gaping holes in their game, and they decide to fix some niche survivor perks.
They really don't understand their game. Just look at the Twins chapter.
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Make brown bag basekit.
Tar bottle / Wood ash are a gamble. If you get the wrong map they are completely useless and a wasted addon. Just make Trap colors adjust based on map automatically.
Making Honing Stone basekit would be asking too much, but give SOME penalty to an injured survivor stepping in a trap. Make them hindered, or deep wounded or something.
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BHVR has a bad habit of changing things that don't need changing or are irrelevant, and then completely ignoring things that need changing.
The Undying Hex and Morii changes are healthy for the game, yes, but it seems kind of ridiculous that no sort of key/hatch rework or any sort of tweak to survivor meta perks have come along to accompany them.
Even these Trapper and Wraith changes seem very too-little too late. Why not give Wraith more basekit windstorm? Why not make Brown Trapper Bag basekit? Are these the last changes we're going to see to these killers in a long time despite them being clearly easy to bully?
The devs patch slowly and inaccurately.
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As of right now, you lose emblem points for intentionally dropping survivors off your shoulder as "Survivor escaped grasp". Maybe get rid of that.
A lot of these changes seem very specific and can just be circumvented by doing something else. Like running in a circle , or just crouch walking.
Main cause of toxicity in DBD is knowing you can't get hit. Killers are melee ranged and animation-locked half the time, making it very easy to dangle right outside of their range and do whatever to taunt. In a shooting game, people don't do that as it is a good way to get sniped. Even in a MOBA, people don't do that because they can legitimately die if they underestimate. In DBD, survivors know that the killer can't touch them without getting close, so they are free to be toxic.
It's why a lot of them hate Nurse Spirit Deathslinger Iri Huntress. It removes the range of safety from them so they cannot taunt and dally in front of the killer.
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Plague. Her high camera angle makes me feel slower than I actually am. I lunge expecting a hit,but it feels like I fall short because of the perspective. Sometimes I actually run Unrelenting or whatever the missed attack cooldown one is.
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I personally like having instant queue, but I'll only play a few games because I'm going in expecting a loss.
There's only so much of map offering / Object / Flashlight clicky clicky I can take on Trapper before I call it a night.