runningguy
runningguy
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048812#Comment_4048812
to be fair its not killers that are against slowing gens down. Its survivors that refuse to accept that if they want tunneling nerfedIt wasn't the survivor players that got the anti-tunnel update removed. That did exactly what you claim to want, boosting the killer powers in the 4v1 and weakening the incentive of the early elimination. Everyone was willing to discuss that the numbers would need adjustment, but it was killers who were claiming they'd quit the game outright if tunneling didn't stay as is.
You can claim as much as you want that killers are out here willing to compromise, but we very recently saw that wasn't even close to true.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048934#Comment_4048934
and is there any wonder why people are using these slow down perks so much? they are literally the only ones viable on a lot of killers other than tunneling.This is clearly evasive.
You claimed that slowdown perks had been nerfed heavily. @Firellius demonstrated you were wrong. Instead of recognizing the mistake, you are now trying to pivot to a totally different point.
If me losing match after match and having a kill rate below 60% is not evidence of the being unbalanced then survivors losing match after match getting under 40% by being tunneled is not evidence of the game being unbalancedYeah, that's literally not evidence. It's called an anecdote or personal experience.
People have explained, logically, many times, why tunneling creates a bad game without relying solely upon individual experiences.
Im just pointing out that no matter what a killer does, someone will and has complained about.But its a meaningless observation. Every individual player has their own take. Its just a strawman at this point.
This proves my point. The boosts killers got for spreading hooks did not effect gen speeds which is why killers did not agree to it. It wasnt the numbers that needed adjusting it was the gens that needed adjusting. The compromise is simple, nerf tunneling then gens need to be nerfed too. give and take. And as the ones that have the issue with tunneling i would have thought it would be the survivors willing to compromise but its not, they seem to want tunneling nerfed and have no meaningful nerfs themselves which is why the killers have said they would quit if something like that went through. Maybe if they did a PTB to test it, nerf gens and nerf tunneling. curious who would have the issue with that. im willing to bet survivors would have a big issue because they hate doing gens so they dont want to spend even longer doing them.
If individual experience is anecdotal then same can be said for anyone saying they cant counter tunneling. "just your experience, others have countered it or killers would be getting 100% kill rate". it works both ways, you cant dismiss a killer saying they are losing match after match and not dismiss a survivor saying they lose match after match. If we going an stats and not individual players matces then BHVR actually posted stats that survivors are on average escaping 40% which is what the devs aimed for. so there is no issue with tunneling, anyone struggling with it is just their personal experience.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048934#Comment_4048934
and is there any wonder why people are using these slow down perks so much? they are literally the only ones viable on a lot of killers other than tunneling.
Not what we were talking about.
Your counterargument against my mentioning that dependence on tunnelling has increased with slower gens was to claim that gen regression got worse. I indicated that it didn't. Claiming that these perks are 'the only viable ones' has nothing to do with the argument regarding gen speeds and tunnelling.
evidence showing killers complaining about gen speeds and not tunneling is evident in these forums. If you choose to ignore these posts then thats on you but i have seen many.
Actually, most of the people that say they don't tunnel also say they're doing fine without it, kinda the opposite of what you're claiming.
If me losing match after match and having a kill rate below 60% is not evidence of the being unbalanced
I mean, given that the 60% marker is an arbitrary point the devs decided on that has been stated to not actually be balanced, but instead be weighted in the killer's favour, yeah, you not attaining the level of imbalance the devs set out for you is not evidence of imbalance.
Also, again, your personal competence is a component in this equation that you are deliberately trying to omit. If you are a terrible killer player, your killrates are naturally going to be lower.
then survivors losing match after match getting under 40% by being tunneled is not evidence of the game being unbalanced…
And this is what I mean with taking things from the tunneller's perspective, because the balance of tunnelling isn't even the core of the argument. Tunnelling is incredibly bad for gameplay, that's why people want it gone.
Im just pointing out that no matter what a killer does, someone will and has complained about.
And I've seen complaints about No Mither. Does that mean we should disregard all killer complaints everywhere because RandomNameLotsOfNumbers threw a hissy fit over someone bringing Forced Penance once?
The outrage and tantrums thrown over the idea of tunnelling getting addressed (And the subsequent impact on the game's actual development) are nowhere near comparable to half a dozen salty survivors being upset someone brought Lightborn.
You are intentionally magnifying completely irrelevant, isolated individuals in order to play up a 'woe is me' attitude.
S tier killers are constantly being complained about Blight and ghoul every match seems to be a pretty common complaint in these forums
Yes, Blight and Ghoul -every match-. It's the 'every match' part that gets complained about. Ghoul gets some complaints, but Blight and Nurse have pretty clean slates.
Fact remains, i will never ever follow other peoples made up rules.
So basically, even if gen speeds were reduced even further, you'd keep on tunnelling?
Good to know.
- once again your ignoring the countless posts saying they dont tunnel and they cant keep up with gen speeds.
- You can debate if the 60/40 the devs want is the right move but thats the balance they want…slightly in favour of killers. if killers are not obtaining that then its not balanced in the way the devs want. so its not balanced.
- by saying survivors should show skill to counter tunneling thats not from a tunneler point of view….thats from a survivor point of view as a survivor that has no issues dealing with tunneling. You cant complain and say "get good" to a tunneler and not say it to the survivors that cant counter it. Tunneling is exactly what people wanted….constant chase. Well now the one that gets tunneled is in constant chase. People should be careful what they wish for.
- We are seeing blights and ghoul EVERY match because this is what people have brought onto themselves, they asked for other killers to be nerfed, they asked for no tunneling, no slow down perks, they join SWF with comms….the result is people will play S tier killers alot more which kills the variety of the game. I dont use S tier killers or slow down perks…instead i choose to tunnel to even the playing the field. would people rather i join the slowdown meta and use ghoul and blight instead of tunneling? There would be no end to the complaints if i did that either.
- As previously said if gen speeds got reduced and tunneling is allowed then i will still tunnel….my rules….BHVR rules….not yours or anyone elses. Same applies to if tunneling got nerfed, am i going to suddenly not gen rush because killers cant tunnel so i have more time to do gens? no. Which has been my point this whole time, you cant ask someone to play by imaginary rules and expect them to abide by them. Both issues should be addressed by the devs and both nerfed. Nerf gen speeds so no amount of rushing is detrimental to the killers time limit and nerf tunneling so no amount of tunneling is detrimental to the survivors gameplay. Or make tunneling and gen rushing against the rules….make them reportable and i will stop as it would be against the rules BHVR set out. Unless that happens then i play my way whatever helps me win as survivor or killer.
- Playing both sides if one was nerfed without the other i would have a field day no matter what because i would just jump ship, drop the 1 role entirely and only play the role that wasnt nerfed which would be survivor if killers had tunneling nerfed. Im already doing fine as survivor with the tunneling killers, i can only imagine how much my escape rate would rise if tunneling got nerfed and gen speeds remained the same lol
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048880#Comment_4048880
Again, you're spinning what I say to ridiculous analogies. I say this to simply showcase how you interact with people here.
Playing both sides does not make one automatically not bias. You are proof of this.
Anyway, others can enjoy their interactions with you. I find it lacking, so I'll respectfully decline further instances.
Wise decison if you cant bring any valid arguments to the discussion as It would just frustrate you further. Happy to discuss anytime if you choose to, if not then hope you find fun in your matches as i have in mine😁
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048842#Comment_4048842
gens have gone slower slightly but also the slow down perks have been nefed heavily
After first being buffed. Pain Res went from 15% to 25%, then to 20%. Jolt just had its cooldown removed. Eruption went from 6% to 10%. Pop got changed from 25% of total to 20% of current (The 5% total was made -basekit-, by the way) then to 30, and then back down to 20. Overcharge first got a 200% regression speed boost, later adjusted to 130%, and then went from 5% to 4% regression on missing the skillcheck.
Really, the only perks that are worse than they were before are Call of Brine, Ruin and Pop, with only the former two being meaningfully worse. The rest are as strong as they were or stronger than they've ever been.
They've been 'nerfed heavily' from the point where making progress was practically impossible after they got massively overbuffed. But if we're going to argue this angle, then we could also point to the nerfing of MFT being the reason gen speeds need to go up.
Barring the CoBruption total lock-out meta, regression is stronger than it has been.
If you notice, the killers complaining about gen speeds are often the ones that dont tunnel…
As evidenced by…?
You misunderstood what i said regarding losing. I lost because i didnt tunnel…. time after time loss after loss. thats not balance.
It is, if you're just not as good as your opponents. But that possibility evidently doesn't even register to you.
You losing is not immediate evidence of the game not being balanced.
no one said anything about removing the possibility of losing, its about balance…win some lose some which doesnt happen without tunneling
It happens to everyone who doesn't tunnel.
The bottom line remains the same: Losing makes you tunnel, therefor your proposed solution to remove tunnelling is…?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048865#Comment_4048865
killers bring slow down perks they cry, killers tunnel they cry, killers slug they cry, killers camp they cry, killers go S tier killers they cry, killers bring lightborn or noed they cry, killers bring full aura read they cry.
Slow-down was only complained about when they were drastically overpowered. S-tiers don't get complained about to any notable extent. Lightborn is not complained about. NOED got complained about because it was overpowered. Full aura read isn't complained about, the removal of its counter is.
You are taking any singular complaint from any random person to build this narrative that killers aren't allowed anything when the only thing that gets any concentrated pushback is camping, tunnelling and slugging.
Sure, you're gonna cop some random players complaining about random things, somewhere across a couple hundred matches. But that does not reflect overall community sentiment, which has been incredibly complacent given how poorly survivors have been treated.
and is there any wonder why people are using these slow down perks so much? they are literally the only ones viable on a lot of killers other than tunneling.
evidence showing killers complaining about gen speeds and not tunneling is evident in these forums. If you choose to ignore these posts then thats on you but i have seen many.
If me losing match after match and having a kill rate below 60% is not evidence of the being unbalanced then survivors losing match after match getting under 40% by being tunneled is not evidence of the game being unbalanced….so if the answer is for me as killer is to essentially "get good" instead of tunneling then the answer to survivors is "get good" to counter it. I have, i counter it in my survivor matches.
Im just pointing out that no matter what a killer does, someone will and has complained about.
S tier killers are constantly being complained about Blight and ghoul every match seems to be a pretty common complaint in these forums but like i said, if you choose to ignore these posts then your obviously going to ignorant of that fact.
Fact remains, i will never ever follow other peoples made up rules. they can complain until the end of time about tunneling or slugging or camping or perks or what killer i play as….im going to play the game according to BHVR rules. Until BHVR says they are against the rules im going to continue as i always do and im going to enjoy my matches instead of complaining.
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048865#Comment_4048865
Time and again they've said they'd stop doing it if x, y, or z happened and it's worse than ever. At least the honest ones will admit they do it because it's the easiest path of least resistance.
Until this becomes an untrue statement, just like in the course of a match, the killer has more power to determine how things go. You yourself state you are one of these honest ones.
Bringing up a rulebook is kind of childish at this point. Anything being asked is to try and make the game better for all. If we think otherwise, there is no point to any discussion, as minds are clearly made up and that's not efficient.
I'd like to see people acknowledge things as a whole, not just their side. Both sides need work, BHVR simply needs to get their things in order. Still… And I'd put this to the whole community: If tunneling and gen speeds were magically fixed, would dbd be 'a good game?' I'd wager no, but I'd be curious to other's thoughts.
People claiming 'I play both sides' means very little. Any and every one can claim that and at this point as it seems to be the 'go to' way to start a thought, as if that makes it more valid or something. But if all one is doing is talking for one side, 'playing both sides' means very little.
Playing both sides shows non bias. Why argue for 1 side to be buffed and 1 to be nerfed if they play both sides? They would be weakening one of the sides they play….this atleast shows its about balance and both sides are taken into account not just 1 side regardless of how the other side feels or copes. My claim of playing both sides can be back backed up by hours and matches played as killer and survivor on the stats trackers which to my knowledge that part of the tracker is pretty accurate even if the rest is not.
The rulebook is childish i agree, which is why i never go be other peoples rules lol. Sorry but no one can tell me how to play the game…."hook a survivor but when they are unhooked dont back and tunnel them, let them do a gen while you try going for the pro looper" or "Dont play stealth doing gens, take chase and help the random player that cant last 10sec in chase"…..Its not going to happen. I play by the rules BHVR sets out and not by the rules random people make up. If people want their made up rules followed then they need to ask BHVR to set them as rules, make them reportable. You say they are to make the game better for everyone but they are not, they are to make the game fun for them, the ones pushing these rules, not to better the game. Maybe a killer doesnt like to get looped, so should we make up a rule that survivors cant loop a pallet more than once? Or if killers dont have fun when SWF have comms that reveal the stealth killer is heading over to an unaware survivor, should we make it a rule that comms shouldnt be allowed? ofcourse not. So when survivors say "Dont tunnel" sorry but thats your rule not mine and not BHVR's so i wont be following that rule.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048865#Comment_4048865
Ok but this is about survivors being somehow responsible for the choices killer's make. But sure, everyone complains about everything if you want to go there. Couldn't care less about most of what you mentioned myself, except the cheese, which is not comparable to the other things you're mentioning. Lightborn doesn't stop survivors from playing. Neither does gen regress or aura read or Blight. Noed is just embarassing. But tunneling, slugging, and camping take away player autonomy. There no comparable equivalent for killers. I cant do anything if I'm being hook-camped. Killers can still act even if gens are popping. They can still win too.
Who started it? Probably streamers encouraging people to tunnel. At least in terms of it getting big. It's become the Bible of unbearable killer streamers. It never even occured to me to use any of these tactics when I was a killer only player because I didn't have the slightest idea how other killers played until I picked up survivor.
If you think not tunneling would make the rate go below 60%, wouldn't it be logical to make that happen so killers can then be adjusted? Anyway, I'm fine with gen speeds being increased if we get solid anti-cheese.
This is the game…being hooked takes away player autonomy. cant do anything when hooked but thats the game we play. do we complain about being hooked and how we cant play the game because we are stuck on hook twiddling our thumbs?
Im not sure streamers have much to do with it, i dont watch streamers i just used logic to determine that tunneling 1 player out is more efficient and faster which is whats needed in the dbd race, i dont need a streamer to tell me that.
i dont think the kill rate would drop below 60% i know it would. As i previously said, ideally yes nerf tunneling then buff the killers that struggle…. Realistically this cant happen due to how long it would take BHVR to buff individual killers. The roster is too big and it would take too long, during which time killers would stop playing and the game would likely die waiting on BHVR to buff the killers. Maybe when the game was newer and had less killers, this could be done but not now there are way too many. If they even attempted to try doing it fast it would be a rush job and we all know how that would pan out. Therefore, in order to keep killers playing they need to keep the kill rate up, this is done by nerfing gen speeds at the same time. Its pretty much the only thing that would make me stop tunneling and as long as people keep fighting back with "no to touching gen speeds" and the devs listen to these people and not touch gen speeds then tunneling will remain from my point of view.
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@cogsturning said:
Survivors didn't force this into killers. I started bringing gen perks and toolboxes as a response to cheese tactics. If you want to shove people out of the match then what can I do but try to shorten it? I changed my loadout for a fog vial build for about 10 whole days, but killler's cried about a mid toy for survivors, so I'm back to gen speed shortening.
People aren't going to stop tunneling if base gen times get increased. Time and again they've said they'd stop doing it if x, y, or z happened and it's worse than ever. At least the honest ones will admit they do it because it's the easiest path of least resistance. Gens taking longer will just mean more time for tunneling for a good deal of the people who already do it. Not to mention many seem to have zero idea how to play this game without running back to the hook. No map awareness, no gamesense. Just one tactic.
There's also nothing else do it. If the survivors all cluster on one gen and bang it out at game start, killers cry. If they spread, killers cry. There's no winning. It's like some people want the survivors to just run up to them so they can be chased and not touch gens at all.
To be fair the same narrative could be said for survivors regarding the crying….killers bring slow down perks they cry, killers tunnel they cry, killers slug they cry, killers camp they cry, killers go S tier killers they cry, killers bring lightborn or noed they cry, killers bring full aura read they cry.
Im not saying killers dont cry about what survivors do, some killers will but It all comes down to that all so famous rule book, play by my rules or we will cry about it.
As for who started it…. its the chicken and the egg. you might have started bringing toolboxes and such as a result of tunneling. I started tunneling as a result of gen speeds. Hence why BOTH need addressing.
Saying killers wont stop tunneling if gen speeds get nerfed is like saying survivors wont stop gen rushing if tunneling gets nerfed. Asking politely to not do something wont work, both have to be nerfed, not just put on faith that "we will stop if x, y or z gets done".
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@whirlwind931123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048844#Comment_4048844
I think BHVR made it so that bots don't move at all when they're slugged. Like every time I slug a bot, they're in the exact same position after leaving them there for ages.
they stay still unless they have somewhere to go. if the gate is open or the hatch is available they seem to crawl to that direction but they need to be options available at the time, the bots wont crawl to a hatch spawn location in anticipation waiting for the hatch to spawn.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048836#Comment_4048836
Killers should be able to save time and abandon with a win when, say, all of the Survivors are bots that are on the ground or hooked.
While i agree killers should get this option…It would cause issues that technically a slug bot can still crawl to hatch which would not be a 4k…abandon would give a free kill that the killer may not have had in this situation.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048830#Comment_4048830
There is no evidence of that.
Gens have grown slower, insistence on tunnelling has grown worse.
Not only that but if your going the route of basically saying "skill issue" then this applies to survivors too. They should be able to loop well enough to counter tunneling.
You never listen to the complaints or process them outside of a tunneller's perspective, otherwise you'd know why this doesn't fly.
Fact remains, killers dont have that much of an issue with gen speeds because they tunnel.
Also not true, since we get new demands for gen speed nerfs pretty much every week despite tunnelling being completely uninhibited.
killers have pretty much said "ok we know you dont like tunneling so lets compromise, nerf tunneling and gen speeds and we have a deal".
Nope, the deal has always been 'Survivors give up gen speeds, we keep access to tunnelling, and we'll half-heartedly promise to totally not abuse it!'
That is exactly what happened with 6.1. Gen speeds already got nerfed, multiple times, but we've seen more nerfs to anti-tunnel than buffs, and the insistence that tunnelling is 'necessary' only grows every time the game shifts further in killers' favour.
You basically said it yourself: I lose, I tunnel.
So the only way to get you to stop tunnelling is to remove the possibility of you losing.
gens have gone slower slightly but also the slow down perks have been nefed heavily so it would make sense why tunneling has increased.
I am a survivor main so im looking at it from both sides, not just a tunneler.
If you notice, the killers complaining about gen speeds are often the ones that dont tunnel… they try playing by survivor rulebook and thats why they complain about gen speeds. Tunnelers dont often complain about gen speeds.
Your talking to a tunneler lol i have openly said i am fine with tunneling being nerfed if gen speeds are nerfed too. Seems your the one that objects to this proposal which proves my point.
You misunderstood what i said regarding losing. I lost because i didnt tunnel…. time after time loss after loss. thats not balance. THEN i started tunneling and it turned into balanced matches where i win some i lose some. Nerf tunneling without gen speeds and im back to where i was before, losing match after match where the kill rate is well below 60%. no one said anything about removing the possibility of losing, its about balance…win some lose some which doesnt happen without tunneling
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abandon means give up…. this makes sense from a survivor point of view because its available when they are all downed or when things are not looking good for them. Killers can only abandon when they are winning which is why you dont really see killers abandon, why abandon and give up when your winning?
The reason why it is the way it is, its because BHVR didnt want to incentivise forcing players to abandon so the killer can abandon and get instant 4k. It hasnt worked that way because killers still slug and force the abandon and just mop up the slugged bots but atleast they cant instant 4k by abandoning. Same with the abandon option for when a gen is not done in 10min….technically the killer is in a good position because they are stopping gens from being finished buying time to kill but for some reason when they are in a good position killers can opt to abandon. Again, which is why we never see killers abandon, they wont abandon a match they are winning.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048818#Comment_4048818
Tunnlers always say whats the best narrative for them and not whats reasonably the truth. Ypu probably never even thought for a second that youre not as good as you think you are. If you feel the need to hardtunnel, youre just not accepting that youre the worse player in the match.
Lets take a look at the top scene: they did once an experiment. "best nurse" vs "best swf". three games and it ended in one draw and two 4ks with at least one gen up. Regarding all of your logics this shouldnt even be possible if survivors played optimally. But thats how the game works. Its prooved that it has nothing to do with gen speeds.
not a good example using nurse…. try SWF team with comms v pyramid head or trapper and we have what the actual game is like.
If survivors cant counter tunneling thats their skill issue. There is a reason why tunnelers pick the weak link to tunnel first. They are easy to down. No weak link means the tunneler cant get a down so fast and actually costs them the match by tunneling. Also the same argument can be said for anyone in SWF….if you need SWF with comms to win then maybe they are not as good as they think they are because they have used comms to gain an advantage. Explains why so many SWF players refuse to play soloq….they cant win because they rely on SWF with comms as crutch like killers rely on tunneling. Works both ways
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048818#Comment_4048818
clearly is necessary when tunnelers are saying the reason why they tunnel is because of gen speeds and openly say they are good with not tunneling IF they have time to spread hooks.
Here's the problem: The worse you are as a player, the more time you need to spread hooks.
Which means that if we were to nerf the living daylights out of gen speeds (again), killers could just play worse and still demand access to tunnelling.
Which is kinda what already happened with 6.1.
There is no evidence of that. in my experience i was getting balanced matches for a long time. Then suddenly im guessing MMR went up because i was getting SWF team all the time. solo players were rare in my matches. i started to lose constantly. i started tunneling and it turned heavily survivor SWF matches into balanced matches.
Not only that but if your going the route of basically saying "skill issue" then this applies to survivors too. They should be able to loop well enough to counter tunneling. As a survivor i do ok v tunneling killers because i can last long enough for the killer to drop chase or i use stealth.
Fact remains, killers dont have that much of an issue with gen speeds because they tunnel. Killers are not the ones with the issue here, survivors are because they dont like tunneling. As previously stated, the only thing that would stop me tunneling as killer is nerfed gen speeds. If tunneling got nerfed without gen speeds getting nerfed i simply wouldnt play killer as im sure many people would do the same. killers have pretty much said "ok we know you dont like tunneling so lets compromise, nerf tunneling and gen speeds and we have a deal". Survivors are the ones that have no give and take, they want but they wont give. Personally if i had an issue with someone doing something i didnt like i would ask them "why do you do it?" "what would make you not do it?" and i would take that under serious consideration, not just dismiss it.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048812#Comment_4048812
Cause slowing gens down isnt necessary at all. Weve had several changes to slow down gens during the last years, and before that killers were also able to win their games … consistently! Still yet the gens have never been this slow and people still complain. So gen speeds arent an issue to begin with. History prooves this. Also your logic of if tunneling gets nerfed gens need to get nerfed doesnt exist at all too.
clearly is necessary when tunnelers are saying the reason why they tunnel is because of gen speeds and openly say they are good with not tunneling IF they have time to spread hooks. i hard tunnel….Why do i do this? if i dont, gens get done and i lose, its that simple. Want me to stop tunneling? i have said what would make me stop….slower gen speeds. many killers have said the same. Dont want to listen? Thats why we are at this situation.
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@Dinadin said:
How can killers adapt to something they brought onto themselfs with the play they already do?
to be fair its not killers that are against slowing gens down. Its survivors that refuse to accept that if they want tunneling nerfed so it actually punishes killers doing it then gen speeds also needs to be nerfed. If we say tunneling will be nerfed heavily so its not as effective and at the same time nerf gen speeds, its not killers that would be against that….its mostly survivors because they generally dont like doing gens as its boring so they are dead against making them last longer.
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@TaMeiRen said:
Again, not sure if this was removed a long time ago, but if the killer only has a 1 or potential 2k, then too bad. Standing directly in front of the hooked person in the endgame is weird and kind of annoying.
Open to polite discussion
what else is the killer supposed to do? no gens to patrol and protect. not enough time to "spread hooks" and go for someone else knowing they are probably at full health and knowing the one on hook will get unhooked and get a free escape thanks to basekit endurence. If the killer gets a down at end game then too bad for the survivor that got downed.
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@Sp00kyb0b said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048482#Comment_4048482
I am being called nasty slugger stuff when i do that on twins.
play according to the survivors rules and you will likely still called all sorts so might as well play in a way that you see fit
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well, people wanted tombstone gone….they got their wish lol. Tomstone gone and now we have this abomination….
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@Specotoge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047705#Comment_4047705
I ain’t reading all that. Anyway playing with friends nobody would solo queue because they got tunneled how selfish would that be.. but typical killer mentality. There are maybe 2 loops that you can actually loop the doctor at, at those he only has to commit to the chase and respect the pallet, on most loops if you are a good doctor player, the stun of the shock is breaking the loops, with such a duration. If the doctor isn’t able to do that or doesn’t respect the pallet on those 1-2 loops per map he’s just very bad. You are comparing completely different things also. Tunneling is something that the devs want to get rid of, they tried it, it was way too OP for survivors, that’s why they had to delete that part again. While looping is the only thing survivors can work with and flash light saves aren’t even that bad imo. Like when someone flashlight saves someone while I am killer I will often get the person pretty fast again and hunt the other one when they are still there. You can play all you want if only winning is what you are playing for it’s your choice, in my opinion that’s cowardly, but yea. Also killers obv weren’t all saints, I said the community in general was much nicer and that a lot played to that „rulebook“. I am sorry but if all you play for is winning, then you are lost. That shouldn’t be normal. Also survivors should struggle yeaaaa duh, but killers too, the game shouldn’t be easier for either side, only because of lore that killers don’t struggle like their victims. Idfc I don’t want to have to play the same ######### everyone plays, see the same ######### every round, get frustrated too often only because of that #########. Oh also with survivors not playing enough killers, I am sorry but dlc killers for some random reason (we all know why) are typically stronger than the free ones. No survivor main should have to buy or spend shards on killers to learn how to play against tunneling. And shouldn’t games be beginnerfriendly, since dbd definitely isn’t which is bad, how do you defend that? Also beginners need to learn the game first in general, you can’t expect them to learn how to counter tunneling already. I am also pretty sure you didn’t learn how to counter it against every killer because that’s impossible. Nurse, for example, with her getting basically no penalty for mistakes or bad tactics, if you can blink good and have common knowledge, you can easily win most matches.
the fact you said your not going to read all that shows the exact issue…people are not willing to read, not willing to learn, not willing to adapt.
- its not selfish to play a solo match while the team finishes a match…most dont because most are on comms and they use spectate mode to pass info to the team still playing.
- im actually survivor main at the moment so the "killer mentality" comment makes no sense.
- If the devs wanted to get rid of tunneling they could simply make it reportable in the same way as griefing. The fact they have openly said "tunneling, camping and slugging is not reportable" says it is a tactic that killers can choose to use. Just because they want it nerfed doesnt mean they want to get rid of it or the fact they nerfed loops by adding the entity block after 3 repeated vaults would mean they want to get rid of looping.
- Looping is not the only thing survivors can work with at all. Im a survivor main and i use stealth, i do gens without being seen, when in chase i lose line of sight so killer cant find me then i get back to doing gens. This not only wastes the killers time by looking for me and helps avoid being tunneled but also means i can do gens which someone that relies entirely on looping cant. Cant do gens and loop the killer.
- Playing a vs game to win is pretty normal. casual players that dont care about winning usually play single player games or peaceful co-op games. People that want to v other people and COMPETE which is exactly what vs means…they play to win.
- You dont have to play like everyone esle, you can play your own way like everyone else can play their way. doesnt change the fact that people will not be dictated to by random people. Sorry but if your in my match and you make up a rule like only clease 1 totem each or no flashlights or dont tunnel or dont loop or whatever rules you make up….im not going to listen to you, im going to play my way. Dont like it? thats a you problem, accept it or dont play but dont dictate how people should play the game because it wont happen, this isnt 1940s Germany.
- i agree killers should not be pay to win, ghoul for example needs hard nerfs but with 1 or 2 exceptions top S tier killers are actually killers like blight and nurse which are available to all players and not pay to win. DBD is not just 1 side, if you only play 1 side your only getting half the game, half the experience, half the knowledge and only going to be half as good as what you can be.
- As previously said, i play stealth so killers that i struggle to loop such as nurse i play into stealth more which is much easier to do knowing how nurses power works and the distance of the aura read. Weirdly i has a match v nurse an hour ago and i did 3 gens while being stealthy… the rest of the so called team did not play stealth and they went down almost instantly. End result was i was the last one standing and escaped via hatch. Your looking at the game in such a narrow view, expect to only play half the game only use 1 tactic (loop), play pretty casually, dictate how others should play, refuse to even read all of a post that might offer insight and advice on how to improve YOUR experience. Any wonder if you get frustrated and struggle?
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@Wiccamanplays said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048252#Comment_4048252
From a technological and financial perspective adding voice chat to DBD is a nonstarter: the burden of incorporating it into the game's spaghetti code would be a a massive time, money and effort sink and cause so many issues it would outweigh any potential benefits.
A Communication Wheel with a number of fixed callouts (I'm on my way! I need help! Killer's over there! Thanks! etc.) that could be translated or even represented nonverbally would be a much easier and safer option that doesn't require BHVR wading through thousands of hours of voice logs to catch Feng Min #3 screaming homophobic slurs in an obscure German dialect.
even a call out wheel wouldnt compare to SWF comms, a wheel cant call out a hex totem someone sees when they are in chase, or let individual survivors know the stealth killer is heading in their direction. Things like that is what makes SWF with comms so good not having the ability to say "im going for save". No comms like SWF gets = no team work for me
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@Wiccamanplays said:
Voice chat is and always will be a bad idea for DBD. It's a hotbed of toxicity with the limited methods of communication we already have and adding voice chat would make it so many times worse. BHVR would never be able to monitor it adequately enough either, and it would be a massive resource drain to even implement, much less maintain, while almost every other aspect of the game still needs care and improvement.
People are apparently incapable of pressing mute. This is why there will never be balance between solo and SWF and this also why players like me will continue to play selfishly as a lone wolf and not a team player. People want teamwork? players that act for the benefit of the team, unhook, take hits? fine, give players the means to communicate to do so otherwise people need to admit soloq is not a team.
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@shalo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048088#Comment_4048088
BHVR openly supports teabagging so , yes, they can take some responsibility.
you have a point but realistically what can be done? make it reportable to crouch? make it reportable to go forward, back then forward again? Remove the ability to crouch? somehow remove the ability to not move forward after going backwards?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048227#Comment_4048227
The thing is tryhard already made their own ranked space. I think you are theorizing too much. They should enable some kind of basic ranked queue with stricter mmr just to see.
i agree they should make mmr stricter but they should do that in the regular mode not make another mode and call it casual which will still have the same try hards playing it. There is not such thing as theorizing too much when discussing changes that havnt been tested. The changes proposed is all theory, the advantages they may provide is all theory so the problems they may cause or issues they could present should be theorized.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048212#Comment_4048212
A tryhard who goes into a quick match will enjoy a nice easy game against bots thanks to the three minute DC penalty. But you are right, there should be some basic gameplay advantages to playing ranked. Probably stuff like a bit more XP gain per match. However there is no penalty to playing ranked, not for swf solo nor killer. the point is to give fairer and more competitive matches and if someone sees that as a penalty they dont have to participate.
So it would be the same situation as we have now… blights slugging everyone, they all abandon and the killer mops up the bots? If the DC penalty was more lenient than it already is then people would DC over anything and no one would get a match….quick match would live up to its name, 10 seconds and match over because people have DC'd due to getting a map they dont like or a killer they dont like. Its a double edged sword, Make it so people can DC easier and no one gets a match, make it harder to DC and they are stuck with the try hard players.
As for rewards, they would need to be a lot bigger than more exp. Many long time players dont actually care about exp or BP, there would need to be something exclusive to ranked where they could flex like an exclusive badge or something or exclusive cosmetic…something that competitive try hards could show for the effort of playing ranked.
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im not actually seeing any benefit to playing the ranked mode especially if the regular mode gives everything the player needs such as blood points. Why would people q up for ranked mode, if a hard tunneling blight wants to have a match and win they would just do the quick match. Or whats stopping 4 man SWF teams from just doing quick match to avoid any penalty the ranked mode might bring?
There needs to be incentives to do ranked, and big incentives at that. But in offering rewards to ranked only this would cause a big backlash from players that dont want to play ranked
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depends on what stats. For the stats tracker, abandons voids the match but you keep the rewards you earned such as BP. A void match is neither a win or loss or draw, it simply never even happened. So someone that abandons 9/10 matches but escapes 1/10 will have 100% escape rate based on escaping 1/1 matches due to the other 9 being void. Apparently abandons also dont count for MMR so technically abandoning a match when the option is available will not gain or lose MMR keeping it neutral….no different to the hatch except the hatch also counts as an escape on the stats tracker.
As for BHVR internal stats…. the only thing we have been told is the stats BHVR uses are different to the stats on the stats tracker. What this could mean is anyone's guess and after months of people asking for clarification on the matter, still no clarification.
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@Classic_Rando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048002#Comment_4048002
Yes, I know this option exists. I already said that the abuse doesn’t bother me personally, so there’s no reason for me to hide it. The only reason I keep it open is so that I can report these types of people who are harassing others through the chat system and hopefully get them banned. While I myself am not affected by the abuse, there are certainly some people out there who are. The solution is for BHVR to actually ban people for this kind of stuff, not just tell people to close the chat window.
indeed that is your choice but the people that are offended by this also have the option to not read it or ban them but you said your personal opinion is to eliminate post chat altogether…thats what i disagree with for the reason i previously stated.
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@Classic_Rando said:
My personal opinion is that BHVR should just eliminate post-game chat altogether because a vast majority of interactions are toxic, in my experience. I just finished a match where someone told me to off myself after they lost. This type of thing happens fairly frequently.
I reported them, as I always do for this kind of thing. But I’m starting to feel like it’s pointless. I’ve never once received any verification that action was taken against someone for saying extremely vile things like this. It’s difficult for me to believe that BHVR takes this seriously because they, at least in my experience, never ban people for this. I’m thick-skinned and this kind of stuff bounces off me, but what if someone actually gets influenced by this type of abuse and acts on it? Even if they don’t act on it, it can be psychologically traumatic for some people.My point in posting this is that I hope a mod or dev sees this and action starts being taken against these kind of people. Please start taking this kind of thing seriously, BHVR. I now understand why people aren’t afraid of saying these kinds of things when they know that there likely won’t be any consequences. Does anyone else have a similar experience where chat abuse reports consistently go without any action taken?
you know you have the option to just click next and not read it right? i was on console for ages and that has no post match chat, it felt like i was playing with bots…if i didnt move to PC where there is a chat available then i would probably have quit the game because it feels so stale without it. im not condoning toxic chat by any means but you have the choice to not read it.
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@Yoshirama said:
After playing some chaos suffle I encounter a lot of killers with third seal. It is a totem, yes, but the times I've reached second state in my first because my teammates didn't know where I was is ridiculous. A swf team doesn't have this kind of problem because they can tell where they are, but with randoms?
I just wish the effect keeps like this, but show the aura of hooked survivors. Something that can make SoloQ more bearable.
And people will still say comms provide no advantages lol
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i had a suspicion of what would happen in this thread but i thought i would wait to confirm it…. its interesting that the very few posts that offer actual constructive advice gets downvoted but most posts seem to be a long the lines of "nothing" and "there is no way to keep new players playing" which offers no real advice whatsoever and they get upvoted lol. Just an observation that i find interesting.
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For me, depends on if im doing a challenge. if im doing a challenge then i win when the challenge is done. If not then a survivor win is when i escape and killer win is 3/4k depending on how im feeling at the time.
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@TicTac said:
For whatever reason two friends tried DBD again. They played around 100 hours two years ago, but got frustrated and quit.
We are not doing well and im worried they will stop quickly again. I try to take aggro, but then the killer leaves and downs them pretty fast. Shoulder the burden gives them some time, but bc of the fast downs the gens are quite slow.
Do you have any tips?
stealth…. practice moving around not being seen. works wonders for me. eventually they will learn to do gens without being seen which is pretty handy for soloq when people decide to do challenges instead of gens. Another tip is spend time playing killer, learning how their power works and what people do to avoid hits. Its also handy playing killer to learn map layouts as you dont have to worry about the pressure of being chased and taken out of the match early. People that play exclusively 1 role often struggle.
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personally, my reason is to give a much needed alternative view to things 😉
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@Specotoge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047475#Comment_4047475
now the problem is the devs are trying to go against tunneling, just didn’t find a way to do properly. Playing a game should be casual if it’s not ranked and I played killer and you can notice within the first few seconds of a chase if that player is good or a beginner. Like I don’t understand you are defending that killers instantly tunnel away one survivor who will have to wait till the match is over which often is atleast 10 minutes, just so winning is easier? Especially when you can also win without tunneling and camping, it’s not even hard if you play a proper killer, which everyone does anyway, well no everyone plays the strongest killers, to win obv. Like if you play 100hrs nurse, you should be able to win more than 90% of matches without tunneling or camping. Which shows that survivors already are at a disadvantage. Survivors looping the killer is often extremely difficult, especially with killers like nurse (impossible) the ghoul, clown, the lich, the doctor (basically impossible too) and some more. So you have to actually play good and often very good for looping, one mistake and you are dead. While tunneling you only have to be an ahhole to be able to do that. The BEST killer players say tunneling is toxic, but those also realize it’s not the best tactic only the easiest. And tell me how are new survivors supposed to learn, when they basically are dead the moment a tunneler finds them, you don’t learn racing with F1 cars against Max Verstappen, you learn with equals that can be your rival. Also the survivor „rulesbook“ has its origin from when the community was actually nice and it used to be a real thing and not a meme. Killers themselves would play by those „rules“. And no the norm shouldn’t be that you play to win, it’s not a ranked mode so NO, stop trying to say that and pretend like it’s the truth and by now you also should have figured out that the mode definitely isnt a ranked mode. Also as a killer get much more „wins“ than survivors look at the statistics, survivors also get much more frustration matches in a row, so yea I do believe survivors have it worse than killers, especially since getting hunted is in general the less fun part than hunting.
sorry but no, people can play games however they want within the rules of the game. Unless bhvr makes tunneling a reportable offense then people are free to do so. They could have stopped it in the first PTB but it was nuked too much which says they want it nerfed but not gone entirely.
Being tunneled out of the match early doesnt mean you have to wait around, you can q up for the next match instantly. Even in SWF if a player is tunneled out they can play a solo match while others finish up the game. If you choose to wait it out then thats your choice.
You say people can win without tunneling and camping….Not in my experience. I played for years and as killer i didnt tunnel, camp or slug and i won some, i lost some…it was balanced. Then suddenly i started getting 4 man SWF on comms very often and sometimes the same team multiple times in a row. I was losing match after match for months because gens went so fast my slow M1 killer couldnt keep up. I dont like playing S tier killers and speed freaks like blight and people shouldnt be forced to play these killers to stand a chance. Then i started tunneling and it turned the game back to being balanced where i win some, i lose some. So not everyone can win without tunneling at all.
Survivors looping the killer difficult? no its a walk in the park, its literally going in a circle. i have clips of my own matches where i have looped killers like lich and doctor long enough that they drop chase so they are not impossible to loop. If people cant loop they should stealth so they dont get tunneled. Thats what i do, i rely on looping when stealth fails. The problem is so many people run out like headless chickens, leave scratch marks, actually want to loop and get chased then when they go down fast they get annoyed and say "i dont want to be chased anymore, let me do gens while you chase someone else". You wouldnt expect the killer to say "ok 3 gens are done and i have 1 hook, dont do gens, let me catch up and get another hook" thats absurd and unrealistic.
The best killers say tunneling is toxic? not sure who you would consider the best killers but that would be their opinion much like i could say looping is toxic or flashlight saves are toxic, its an opinion and people are entitled to think what they want but it doesnt change facts that these things are part of the game like or not.
New survivors are supposed to learn by playing the killers they struggle with to learn the powers and how best to counter them. When playing survivor i learnt by experiencing what exactly needs to be countered. Shielding people from these tactics will not teach them anything. As a result, i have learnt to deal with tunneling pretty well and i escape very often and enjoy my matches. You aften find "survivor mains" say the struggle and tunneling is impossible to counter because they dont play killer enough to actually learn the best ways to beat individual killers. Even some SWF players dont play soloq enough to know the best ways to win in that type of mode so they say soloq is impossible….I on the other hand play soloq pretty well because i dont rely on my team as much as some SWF players do.
Survivor rulebook has always been a joke lol there has never been a time where killer or survivors were all "friendly". Its peak entitlement, play my way, my rules and if you dont i will throw a tantrum. Thats pretty much how it has always beeen. Back in the days of when killers could grab to stop hook saves and when survivors had god loops that were infinite and never trigger bloodlust…you think these people played nicely? They didnt.
Your still hooked on this rank mode thing…. ranked or not you are choosing to step in the match with random people to COMPETE with random people. These people may want to win because they just want to win, they may meme because they just want to meme. They do not play by your made up rules no matter how hard you want them to. That is what i am fundamentally against….the concept of telling other players how to play the game, telling them to play how you want them to play and calling them toxic if they dare not play to your rules. I like to win in games, ranked or not, i like to play my own way. I wont accept any random person telling me its wrong to want to win and i must play in way that they like not how i like. Its simply not going to happen, i wont be dictated to by random people. Freedom of choice, how i play the game is MY choice. You have a choice to play how you want to play and i wont tell you to play by my rules because i dont believe in dictatorships.
Survivors are the underdogs, they should struggle to escape. Thats the role. If you choose to play this role that is your choice and you do so willingly knowing this is the case. Dont like it? your free to pick killer role instead or free to play another game.
Once again, you have the option to find people to join SWF and play custom matches so you can all play friendly killer and play your rules. Your choice. If you choose to play with other random people then you have to accept not everyone thinks or plays like you so imo its pretty toxic to try to dictate to these random people how they should or should not play the game. It shows lack of acceptance and lack of tolerance for people different to you which in my view is pretty toxic.
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@Crowman said:
The abandon system is fundamentally flawed. The idea of giving players the options to freely quit out of a game that is being extended by the opposing team sounds good in theory, but the implementation is so unfairly balanced.
Like why does the system even activate immediately upon the last survivor remaining going down. Frankly it wouldn't even be needed if BHVR didn't backtrack of having the finisher mori auto activate.
Then killers have to wait 10 full minutes of no gens being done to abandon even though bleeding out is a 4 minute timer.
Then they added the whole "if you get slugged 3 times you can leave" which negatively affects killers who have to slug as part of their power like Twins.
indeed, and not only that but i have seen players holding back while others are on hook and someone else is being chased…they wait and run out to the killer when 3 people are downed or hooked instead of unhooking knowing full well the second they are downed everyone can abandon and go next. Its using the abandon feature that was designed to help against toxic slugging for 4min and turning it into another method of going next. And again using this same abandon system, the last one remaining can abandon the second they are downed to void the match entirely so it doesnt show as a loss on the personal stats page.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047532#Comment_4047532
[[ I DO NOT CONDONE GOING NEXT, DO NOT REPLICATE, only did for testing purposes months ago when I saw people saying its still disabled. ]]
But they do get hit with it because I've tested it as survivor and when you slug them or don't let them go next it lets them circumvent the penalties stacking.
First or Second time - you get a warning that stays in your mailbox for like a month
Second or Third time- you get a derank that pops up and go down grades (for me it was for iri 1 too iri 4)
Third or Fourth time - 5 min matchmaking penalty (assuming it goes up after this but stop testing once I saw penalty was not disabled)
I am unsure how long it remembers the matches if its time based or matched based or tied with dc penalties as I only was testing to see if there was a penalty.
If you slug them you are just allowing them to circumvent the system vs killing them fast if they are trying to go next so the penalties start to stack,
[[ I DO NOT CONDONE GOING NEXT, DO NOT REPLICATE, only did for testing purposes months ago when I saw people saying its still disabled.]]you might have tested it but trust me people have found ways around it so it doesnt flag, therefore people are going next penalty free. i wont say how they are doing it but they are.
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@random1543 said:
Survivors cant abuse it unless you are just slugging them and allow them to get picked up to try to force them to stay in the match.
If they are genuinely trying to go next you should just kill them asap and if they do it often they will be hit with deranking then matchmaking penalties because of the go next prevention. When you slug them to force them into the match it avoids that penalty system and gives them a free out because you wont hook them.thats the issue, they dont get hit with the deranking or get penalties. i 100% know this. killer has 3 options, kill them so they go next, slug them to not encourage the go next mentality or ignore them and dont chase them which means they end up trolling the rest of the players or gens get done for free. its a no win situation for the killer.
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@NotJared said:
It's almost impossible to play a full match of Killer in Dead by Daylight anymore since Survivors have been granted the ability to disconnect if they've been downed twice.
It is genuinely awful and kills my desire to want to keep playing, because Survivors are taking advantage of it to use it like a free disconnect button.
No matter what I do, Survivors will quit over the slightest inconvenience. Anytime I play a Killer they don't like or something doesn't go the way they want it to, they run up to me and force me to down them until they're out of the game.
If I ignore them, they'll either do gens unless I kill them (and they won't put up a chase, griefing the game for their teammates) or just body block me in chases against players who actually want to play the game until I down them.
I try not to reward this behavior by not hooking them when this happens, but since the new Abandon scenario was introduced, downing Survivors that are intentionally griefing the game allows them to force me to either get them out of the game as fast as possible, or if I try to ignore them then they are rewarded by being allowed to disconnect with no penalty.
The Downed-Twice-Abandon-Scenario either needs to be modified in some way to prevent intentional abuse, or this kind of behavior needs to be reportable and temp-bannable. It is genuinely so difficult to play a regular match anymore.
i been saying this since the abandon was first introduced, it can, will and has been abused beyond its original purpose. Survivors have 2 free DC's before they start getting a penalty and they can reset it by playing 20 matches…easily done when you spend a few hours at a time playing the game. Then they have the classic go next which is no where near sensitive enough, they intentionally get hooked, go next and repeat the next match if things dont go their way. And now with the abandon there is yet another way for survivors to skip the match. Not only that but apparently abandoning doesnt effect MMR lol. Crazy world of dbd for you.
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@SoGo said:
Now, if it was put in the way you proposed, it would be very unappealing for the killer.
Now, a normal 5 player variant, maybe. Potentially make it so the last one standing wins.
so pretty much what the game is now?
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@Specotoge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047213#Comment_4047213
it’s normal to try hard against beginners? No it’s not, it’s like playing a sport with a kid and completely destroying them. Like I had manyyyy matches where a new survivor to the game with not even 10 hours gets tunneled out the match right at the beginning, since it’s the easiest and most effective way to win…. You can’t tell me that that’s normal. You can’t tell me playing like a btch is normal. Imagine you are new to the game, but most rounds you die very fast since you are new and don’t know how to play yet, then you have to watch your friends play while waiting, don’t you see the toxicity and lack of empathy in tunneling? I rarely die early on the match, but if I do it’s boring and annoying, i mean if a good killers decided to tunnel you early, you basically have no chance to escape. I played and play A LOT of multiplayer games and the DBD community is by far one of the most toxic ones there is, only FIFA or something like clash royale is more toxic, but those games have ranked modes. And that, even tho, dbd used to be one of the nicest communities and you support that corruption? You are basically saying hate the Game not the player, but at the end it’s the player deciding to play like a twat so I hate both.
its normal to try hard to win v the opponent. If beginners are being matched with veterans then thats a matchmaking issue that has nothing to do with casual or non casual players. They should be matched with players of similar skill level but again thats nothing to do with casual players thats new players.
The reality is people dont know who their opponent is, they dont know how many hours they have, they dont know if they are casually playing the game or playing to win. Its unreasonable to ask the opponent to take it easy and not try because they might be new players. If killers did that every match suddenly multiple gens pop and they find out the survivors are not new they are playing to win then the killer has pretty much handed them the game.
Everyone was new to the game at some point, myself included, i know what its like to be new. I learnt how to play and win by not only playing both sides but by actually dealing with these tactics and being tunneled. Now i counter being tunneled pretty well, i didnt learnt that by being treated like a child and "given a chance". I do see the lack of empathy in tunneling, killers trying to win and the survivors cant handle it and dont enjoy it. On the other hand, do survivors feel any empathy for the killer if they can loop a low skilled killer the whole match? Or do they feel empathy for the killer when gens fly so fast the killer feels like the match is a lost cause? They dont care if the killer is having a good time, they are just playing the game and trying win just like a tunneling killer is.
Yes i am saying hate the game not the player, your expecting random players to play how you want them to play. There is a reason why there is a meme of "the survivor rulebook"…. its an ongoing joke because so many people make up their own rules and expect random people to abide by them, if they dont abide by them then they are toxic. When will people learn that making up their own rules does not apply to everyone that plays the game. As killer i could make up my own rules and say gen rushing is toxic, stunning me with a pallet is toxic, looping is toxic….i could be a new player so follow my rules. Thats unrealistic and a very child like way of viewing things. So once again, the issue is solved by the custom mode where you can make up your own rules and you can play with people on the same mindset as you. My advice is dont expect random people to play by your made up rules, they often wont so start learning to play by the actual game rules.
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@Zanecc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046884#Comment_4046884
this would only make sense for soloQ. It’s literally a team game if you have anyone playing with you. Treating it like a 1v1 is why survivors get creamed.
exactly, i only play soloq. if im playing SWF then we are on the same page and yes we are a team and having comms further supports that. But soloq is not a team game. Treating soloq as a team when it is not its the reason survivors get creamed. Many soloq players seem to struggle because they rely on team mates or go for saves when they could escape, they run towards the killer to loop them expecting the "team" to do gens, but what of other people have a challenge to do totems and wont do gens? it makes the looping a waste of time. I on the other hand, seem to be doing ok in soloq because i dont rely on the team as much as most, i dont often save people when i can walk out the gate, i play stealth and do gens while avoiding be chased because i cant do gens while in chase. I see soloq for what it is and i play to that quite successfully.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Despite optimal survivor gameplay being a flowchart for the most part, you're rarely going to get all 4 survivors to agree on the best play. Differing playstyles and goals already lead to a lot of conflict in survivor lobbies.
Adding comms isn't going to stop someone from being bad in chase, inefficient on gens, less hungry for a flashlight save, etc. And I personally don't want someone with an exaggerated vocal fry and a bizarre vampire accent/Twitch accent where they over-enunciate consonants and add -uh to the end of every sentence in my ear.
people always say things like this like there wouldnt be an option to mute if you dont want to hear it. Also you dont need all 4 survivors to agree on the best play, a simple call out where a hex totem is would benefit all massively. And for the people that dont want want talk, they dont have to, if even 1 player has comms while the other 3 just listen to call outs it can be a game changer.
Currently, my view of solo is that it is not a team. Many things point to this being the case from MMR gains/loss to BP rewards to personal goal like challenges to not being able to communicate. People then get annoyed when i play the game this way, as a solo player and focus on my own escape above everyone elses. Yet when something like comms is suggested that would push the concept of working as a team and enable people to actually play as a team player the idea is shot down immediately.
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@Specotoge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046569#Comment_4046569
Now you are literally trying to gaslight and put words in my mouth? All I said was, that being fully competitive, like so competitive that in multiple games I played ranked ppl wouldn’t even be that competitive, for the sole reason of winning is sad in my eyes and that those ppl probably have a ego problem. The reward thing was just since you tried to argue that „since there are rewards, its ranked“. Like come on, most killers even when having completely new survivor players still try hard like they get a million euros for that, while they don’t even get more blood points for trying that hard many times. I am questioning the behavior of those killers and that behavior happens way too often. I’ve introduced some friends, one hates and stopped playing it because of that. L community in my opinion both sides many survivors are scum too
that is your opinion. i think someone joining a pvp match against randomly selected players then complain about the opponent trying to win is pretty sad. Like i said if you want to play casually then your best bet is play with friends where you can all agree on your own rules and play a casual match. If you want to step in the ring with the random players that may or may not play differently to you then you have to accept there will be people that want to win and will try hard to do so. This isnt some daycare centre for kids where you give them a chance to make them feel better when playing games. Its a pvp game.
Technically you can play casually in regular mode…. the whole thing with casual play is that your not bothered if you win or lose, you just casually play. so you could do this in whatever mode just dont be surprised when others think and play differently to you and try to win which shouldnt be an issue because your not looking to win your looking to play casually. or do you expect to play casually and still win?
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i played killer and survivor and i have seen way more toxicity from the survivor side. As to why….could be as others have mentioned its 4 v 1 so more likely to encounter toxic people on that side, could be due to people having a different understanding to what toxic behaviour actually is. For example survivors tbagging at the gate might thing its just celebrating but the killer might think they are just being toxic or killers tunneling for a kill just trying to win and survivors think they are being toxic. It says something when i start getting comments on my profile saying things like "+rep decent survivor, escapes and says gg like a normal human being instead of being toxic" lol
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047015#Comment_4047015
Considering the new game is an Assym horror it automatically makes DbD its competition, and one license is not enough (no matter how iconic) is enough to compete with it. The only competition I can see DbD ever having is not an Assym horror, but rather an Assym that can get ahold of licenses from a different genre.
i disagree, with all the licences and different killers in this game, its still the same killers over and over again….S tier killers like blight. Not only that but dbd has already lost 2 big licences the past year (hellraiser and halloween). Personally i think dbd has had its day, its just a bloated mess of a game and a cleaner, newer, single licenced game could very much compete with it.
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there is a difference between toxicity and try hards. toxic behaviour being to intentionally make the game unpleasant for other players and try hards being to try hard to win. Sort of throws off the whole voting tbh when two very different things are lumped into 1.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046879#Comment_4046879
Some would argue its not a team game. Think of it like those saw movies where all the random people wake up and don't know or trust eachother. They have no obligation to save eachother, they simply need eachother to progress towards the goal of escaping. Meanwhile if they alredy knew eachother as friends then of course theyd work as a team and lookout for eachother. But there is no incentive for not leaving someone to die, you dont lose points for being the only one out the gate, infact the opposite. When in soloque it is a free for all, which the survivors do rely on others to get the generatora done and the doors open, but they are not rewarded as a team in any way. There is simply an altruistic courtesy between players, that some flatout ignore.
This is the outlook i have on the game, much to the dislike of others. Regardless of what the game should or should not be balanced around, the current state appears to be SWF with comms is team based, soloq is not. Which is exactly why i play the way i do, i play selfishly, when gates are open i dont go back for people i just escape, if someone is on hook about to die and im doing the last gen they are going to die while i do the gen, if saving a good looper helps buy some time for me to do gens while the good looper gets tunneled so be it.
This is why many people struggle with soloq, they treat it as something its not, they treat it as a team effort. I on the other hand treat it differently to others and as a result i have no problems in soloq.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046870#Comment_4046870
Even if we did that, people would have a problem with if it doesnt support what they say.
maybe, but currently the stats are being used in this way anyway. People say soloq is impossible, tunneling is unbeatable yet my soloq survivor stats show escape rates of 60% to 70% which far higher then the 40% target bhvr sets. im sure people have an issue with these stats showing the opposite of what they are saying.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046869#Comment_4046869
The game doesnt seem designed around coms. Voice chat is technically almost cheating as its using a 3rd party program in the background to double survivor effeciency in all parts of the game. But because its not "hacks" and giving the survivors a physical advantage they can't really stop it from being used.
So thats why i say callout buttons would be more fair as its an in game mechanic that they put in the game, unlike coms. You make the survivors too strong they will always escape most of the time.
And adding coms to general soloque with people you don't know is nightmare fuel. As this isnt the friendliest community and many things go wrong in every round.
Being as comms is available via SWF and is not preventable then it makes sense to balance the game around comms allowing it for all. The way i see it, if people dont want to use comms they dont have to, they could mute it or simply not use comms. But atleast if it was added to solo then it be up to the players, if they decide to mute comms giving themselves a disadvantage then thats on them similar to opting not to use perks. Denying soloq comms based on how toxic can be makes no sense due to how many games have comms.
That being said, there is only 1 other way to look at it, SWF with comms is a team based game….soloq without comms is not a team based game. This is how i now view soloq, we are not a team, if it is a team then i should be provided a way to communicate with my team.
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@Philscooper said:
Bhvr said once that they hate people showing off stats and invalidating eachother.
But then doing stuff like dbd stats and revealing info anyway
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/I9Z7RYDQ0VZI/rdt-20251220-210326131533930785019770.jpg
Wierdly enough, no one has come out to show their stats (atleast from what i have seen).
So either everyone is scared to be invalidated,
Its pointless to show them,
Or no one cares for that one thing...somehow....
people have shown their stats, myself included. The issue is the stat tracker is incorrect which makes the stats meaningless. Does tie in with BHVR logic of not wanting people to know MMR and not wanting people to know accurate personal stats which is probably why they have kept MMR hidden and still not fixed the stat tracker to show correct stats.