runningguy
runningguy
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050570#Comment_4050570
No offense, but I don't know what you expect from anyone. Just my experience alone, one minute you're trying to find a loop hole to get me banned from the forum and the next you're elbow deep in an argument about the age of consent. And we've barely even interacted. 😵
Not sure what this comment is supposed to accomplish tbh… My statement stands lol i have never called people an idiot for not playing my way. And i have also not tried to get you banned….thats purely speculation and paranoia. Only thing i have done is point out potential breach of forum rules to prevent you getting banned. You welcome
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050389#Comment_4050389
This argument would apply to every change that has been made in the game's history.
There's a big difference between encouraging DCing and saying 'here are the reasons that cause frustrations leading to people DCing'
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050406#Comment_4050406
if we are going on the devs decisions and what the devs want then 40% escape rate is all good, survivors are hitting that target on average so its all good.Presumes balance is the be all, end all, of game design (we aren't limited to BHVR's factors, but they've said there are multiple other things they look at besides just the 60/40 split).
once again you have missed the point entirely, we all know what causes frustration, if you know you get frustrated with the current state of the game then dont play. simple as that.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050567#Comment_4050567
Why are you talking about "anecdotal evidence" like it means anything? It's just your own experience, nothing more. It doesn't invalidate the experiences of others like you're implying.
i didnt say it invalidates the experience of others, if you read what i said, i actually said the opposite….experience of others is perfectly valid. I am saying using night light stats is invalid because it does not show if the survivors lost while trying or if they lost because they gave up and went next. I am also saying that providing no evidence at all not even their own experience does not counter my argument.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050326#Comment_4050326
Let's be real for a second. Just because you were able to make it out a gate, doesn't mean that everyone would be able to. You also have to factor in tile and gate spawns too. In like 80% of my survivor matches, the gate spawns are really unfavorable for the survivors, with very short rotations for the killer (or there is a hill with perfect view between the gates), so once that hatch is closed.. game over. Or if you are lucky, you can gamble with the chests in hopes to find a key.
Maybe, doesn't change the fact that the hatch is still a viable option and people can also bring a key if they struggle in these situations. Doesn't matter how you slice it, when 1 player DCs early it does not mean game over, there are many viable options and potential outcomes. Gens can still be completed, hatch is still an option, gates are still an option.
I think anyone suggesting the match is over when someone DCs early is low-key promoting people to give up by suggesting that its game over so why try.... That's not something people should be doing. It is these people that this particular thread is about, the DCers that gives up, don't bother trying and it's clear who these people are in this thread.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050491#Comment_4050491
Unfortunately, imo your wasting your time on this one.
This particular individual has been in other threads proclaiming that they hide as their primary survivor strategy, allow their teammates to die so they can just get hatch, and declare anyone who doesn't do this to be an idiot. In fact, they've admitted that their teammates are just tools and fodder for their own experience.
In short, they're part of the problem. This is partly why survivor sucks and why games seem hopeless in the first place from the start. They contribute to the problem, actively, and proudly, and encourage others to make the problem worse.
I generally recommend using the forums ignore feature here and saving your breath.
I would love to see where I have said anyone that doesn't do that is an idiot... It's once again lies spread by someone that can't accept facts so they spread slander and false information, as I have never said they are idiots.
I do agree that if you can't put forward a reasonable argument then it's best not to argue and ignore me living in ignorance....it's better than making up lies claiming I said something I never said which also discredits any argument you may come up with. I mean why would anyone believe the argument of someone that lies and gives false information?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050476#Comment_4050476
You can't just declare yourself the winner of a discussion when you show up with no evidence, but rather just tell other people how wrong they are from your point of view and hope they just concede lol
I can declare myself the winner when I have shown evidence, your refusal to accept that evidence doesn't change anything. As previously stated, my anecdotal evidence clearly highlights the match is not over and an escape is possible. You offer not nothing to counter that argument, the best you can do is simply say "proves nothing" which tbh anyone can do if they choose to ignore the evidence.
Facts remain, I have escaped in such situations on more than 1 occasion, as others have too (just look on YouTube and you find many clips from many people)...but I'm guessing you would ignore these clips as evidence too while offering nothing show otherwise.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050463#Comment_4050463
People do not DC in a vacuum.
You have not proven anything. For the third time, your one ghoul game is not proof of anything, despite you wanting it to be.
The hatch is a relic of old dbd. The reason it still exists is the same reason basement still exists.
So i am correct in that you have no valid argument against it, you have nothing to show that the match is lost when 1 players DC's at the start. i have many examples i can provide, all anecdotal of course but you dont seem to have anything to counter my argument… anecdotal, numerical or any thing else.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050440#Comment_4050440
You are arguing a completely different point. This is about your philosophy about how "it's not over until it's over," but in reality there are certain situations where the killer would have to actually throw the match by getting up for 3 minutes to get their pop tart from the toaster for the survivors to win. You may not like it, but that's the truth. A blight that has 2 people on the ground, one person on death hook, and 5 gens are left is an unwinnable match. Hatch is technically not a win to the dbd systems, since it does not give MMR.
Maybe look back to what i was actually talking about, it was about when 1 survivor DC's early. It doesnt matter if there are 5 gens left or 1, if someone DC in first 10sec or goes next, makes no different. The end game is always the same, 1 survivor remaining with hatch spawning which is an escape. As i have explained in my example i provided, in the event of the killer closing the hatch, the gates are powered which is exactly how i escaped v ghoul, because i didnt give up. You could argue hatch is not a win, but a gate escape is and it is always an option for a survivor as my example has shown due to me escaping via the gate after the killer closed the hatch.
You are trying to prove a match is pretty much done when someone DC's early by suggesting NL stats show matches are lost with a DC in them. This argument i have already proven to not show if survivors have lost due to 1 person DCing or if its because the survivors gave up and did not try to play the match out.
With this in mind, do you have any actual argument to suggest that when a player DC's early the match is over? Do you have stats that show survivors cant win in this situation when they try? Do you have your own anecdotal evidence that you struggle in this situation?
If the hatch is not a win, why is it an option? at this point in the match the player can abandon which gives neutral MMR so why even bother with the hatch? why not just skip that stage and start EGC as if the hatch was just closed? Hatch escapes also count towards adepts and escape challenges which suggests its a win.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050431#Comment_4050431
You seem to want to double down on everyone having their own "anecdotal" experience. That's fine and dandy, but you do realize that when a lot of individual data points come together, you get data and statistics right? You saying "well that's not how it is for ME" means nothing when the aggregate data does not agree with you. If you think your matches are enough to sway the aggregate, then maybe you should be uploading your data so arguments like mine with actual data can't hold water.
not at all, i think anecdotal evidence is useful and valid based on the fact that in this particular argument it shows if you try and you dont give up then the match is not over because some one DC early. If people can come together to share their own experience saying they dont DC, they try and fail then they might have a valid point and the statistics showing they are trying and not giving up would be valid. But this particular argument is about people DCing which is people giving up and my original point to a post that said the match was over when someone DC's early so its no surprise that other DC after 1 has shows that people are not trying. of course the match is over when you give up, thats the point to giving up but as long you dont give up then the match is not over and you can in fact still escape. Your NL stats do not provide any argument against this. My anecdotal evidence does. So which is more valid here? NL or personal experience?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050409#Comment_4050409
You don't think BHVR can also cherry pick data to their liking? Like removing all data with DCs?
i didnt say they didnt, im just saying the evidence you provided is just as invalid as personal experience because
- cherry picked matches
- not everyones matches are on there (mine for example) that would actually counter your argument if they were uploaded along with other people like me.
- Does not show how many matches people gave up and didnt try. This point being a major flaw in your argument because while my experience is anecdotal it shows that i actually tried and didnt go next or give up and i escape whereas NL stats doesnt show if people tried and failed or simply gave up.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463319/please-survivors-stop-disconnecting
I see alot of delusion here. I have a question for everyone, when you play killer, how many times have a survivor sat at the exit gates to teabag you after escaping weather it was 1, 2, 3 or a 4 man escape?
I seriously cannot remember a game iv had where a survivor got to the exit gates and didn't tea bag, and i ask because does that not better give an answer on why survivors DC? You dont think those same survivors tea bagging at the exit gates wont DC as soon as they feel like they are gonna lose?
How many times has a survivor taunted you at a window if you wiffed at them after a vault. Iv played thousands of games and all these things happen most of the time. The truth is survivors have fun out playing and sh*tting on the killer. They wanna embarrass the killer because its fun and hes literally trying to kill them. I like to do it to, out playing the power role feels good and survivors like rubbing it in the killers face because its fun. People say one thing but game after game says different. Its time we be honest and stop the bullsh*t
Its just this game, the dynamic of the game just promotes for the survivor to have some form of dislike for the killer naturally, hes literally trying to kill them and sacrifice them to the entity so in their head thats the "bad guy".
Now….how many times have you been in a game where a survivor DC'd in a game where you were behind on gens+hooks? How many have DC'd after looping you for 3 gens?
how many times have they DC'd when they went down as soon as the game started? How many times do they DC when there on there 2nd hook state and only 1 gen is done? or none?
If you ever slugged or tunneled. If the chases were long and gens got done did they DC? If you slugged and they were winning or still had a chance did they DC? Or did all of them DC after all of them were slugged?
the truth is survivors want to win. Simple as that they dont like losing to the person going out to kill and sacrifice them. Killers dont like losing either but because killers always have a chance to get at least 1 kill they dont DC most of the time.
This pretty much adds up with me and my matches….the ones that try to make a mockery of the killer end up DCing when they find out the killer is better than them. I dont try to make a mockery out of the killer, i dont tbag after a pallet stun, i dont tbag at the gates and yet i dont DC. So that makes sense as far as my matches and my personal experience goes.
While the killer doesnt DC as much because there is always a chance at getting a kill, i think another big reason they dont DC as much is because killers dont have as many ways to bypass the penalty as survivors do. Survivors go next, DC and abandon which increases their potential opportunities to get out of the match without penalty. The killer on the other hand cant go next and doesnt have the option to abandon when they are losing like survivors do so their only form of ending it is to DC which after 2 DC's you start getting a 5min pen and have to play out another 20 matches before they can DC again for free.
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@killerjuker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050402#Comment_4050402
aura perks are extremely common. most killers run a combo of Gen regression and aura reading. you think Bbq and chili and nowhere to hide are rare?
you can mitigate those perks to an extent. there are many situations though where doing so will waste far too much time and guarantee your teammates will die, dramatically decreasing your own chance of survival. there are also many situations where it's impossible to know the killer has a certain aura reading effect until he already gets significant value out of it.
if by stealth you mean just situationally hiding then that's clearly useful and most experienced survivors know this. but playing immersed is just handing the killer a free 4k in most cases as it's a huge time waster. there's a reason the killer mains nowadays complain about gen rushing. they love immersed players that give them extra time to tunnel out the weak links.
generally yes no where to hide is rare in my matches…although i have learnt stealth pretty well so i often assume they have it when they dont anyway so i never actually notice if they have that particular perk because it wouldnt pick me up even if they had it.
Thats exactly what i mean by stealth, knowing when to hide and when to do gens, where to walk to so scratch marks are not picked up, run a corner and walk a little to spread scratch marks to make it harder for the killer track. I often am the only one doing gens and i do them without being seen while other players are running around like headless chickens not touching a single gen.
if 3 of my team mates go down instantly or go next then what am i to do? jeopardize my escape to help 3 randoms that wont touch a gen and cant last 10 sec in chase? no. i play for me and i use my stealth to continue doing gens until im the last one standing then its hatch time (or gates depending on the map and if the killer closes the hatch).
My whole playstyle is based on stealth WHILE DOING GENS….its important to note the while doing gens part because thats what makes the difference between a rat hiding in the corner avoiding the objective and an actual stealth player playing the game doing the objective.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050392#Comment_4050392
Look at Nightlight statistics. Matches that have a DC and matches that have a survivor gone before 1 gen is complete are almost always losses for the survivors. You can't claim "anecdotal evidence" when there are genuine statistics to prove you wrong. Any guesses as to why BHVR won't release data on matches that include a DC?
you say about anecdotal evidence yet you reference a non official site where people cherry pick matches to upload. if personal experience isnt valid then cherry picking matches is not evidence either. With the amount of people that go next it wouldnt surprise me if many matches are lost for them but what NL stats dont show is how many of them people actually tried to play out the match and how many went next which makes the whole source invalid to this argument where im saying it is not match over IF people actually played it out instead of giving up.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050398#Comment_4050398
So even when the developers of the game call tunneling and slugging "issues that need to be addressed," those are suddenly not correct and your version of balance is?
pretty much, i mean lots dont agree with the devs decisions on a lot of things from balance to escape rates to them choosing not to add comms to the devs decision to scrap the PTB changes altogether. if we are going on the devs decisions and what the devs want then 40% escape rate is all good, survivors are hitting that target on average so its all good.
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@killerjuker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050348#Comment_4050348
stealth will fail if killer has aura perks which is common. also if another survivor has the same mentality they'll try to out rat you and that does nothing to solve the abysmal state of solo Q. in fact if I notice teammates like you playing like rats I make sure you don't get out alive. it's not that solo q don't understand each survivor is on their own, it's that playing like a rat decreases everyones chance of survival and it also makes for very boring gameplay. you also get stuck in low elo hell if you rely on hatch escapes
aura perks are not common, slow down perks seem to be the meta at the moment and has been for some time. and a good stealth players know how to overcome these perks by knowing how to avoid them such as no where to hide…you learn the distance where it cant pick you up. do rats do gens? i dont think they do, they rat in the corner somewhere which i dont do lol.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050389#Comment_4050389
So you admit there is a genuine imbalance in power to constitute it as an "issue" that makes survivor unfun to the point to prevent people from playing. Glad we have that in agreement. So that being said, would you rather have survivors who DC at a genuine inconvenience in balance or no survivors at all? If you have no survivors playing because the game is as bad as you say, then the game is going to be PvE with survivor bots. Nobody wants that.
not at all, i didnt say them not having fun has anything to do with balance. i quoted "issues" because others see them that way but i see them as part of the game and not an issue. tbh i would rather no survivors at all, they often perform better than the players…atleast a bot does gens unlike many survivors.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050375#Comment_4050375
Your example is anecdotal evidence and is not enough to automatically prove your argument.
of course the anecdotal evidence thing again lol. well someone saying the match is over when someone DC is anecdotal in that case. There is no evidence to back up these claims after all other then personal experience
almost every single argument here could be thrown out with "anecdotal evidence" and i have seen it used many times to basically dodge an argument they cant argue against.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050254#Comment_4050254
So killers get everything handed to them on a silver platter, and the changes survivors get promised not once, not twice, but three times (slugging and anti tunnel changes) get rug pulled and survivors are just supposed to take it and say thank you?
Survivors know these "issues" are in the game. If they are not happy with it then maybe dont play? By qing up for the match knowing these tactics have not been addressed to their liking says they accept the terms. No one is forcing people to play a game they dont like.
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i wont quote you but it shows you have no valid argument… the context from what im seeing is when its early 3 v 1 with a bot its game over according to you. i have just proven it is not game over and explained why its not. You have failed to explain how it is game over. When some DC is the first 5sec of the match does the gens block so people cant do them? does the hatch never spawn and gates can never be opened? Instead of explaining your argument you just throw out nonsense and appear to tantrum like a child….your right to do so lol
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050375#Comment_4050375
You clearly read not perfectly. Or why are you purposely ignoring the word "early"?
because its irrelevant. if someone DC in the first 5sec of the match, makes no difference. The hatch is still an option for the remaining survivors, the reamining survivors and bot can still do gens, if your the last one standing then you still have the gates as an option if the killer closes the hatch. When they DC makes no difference, there is still a way to escape.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050326#Comment_4050326
- Read again
- Ask yourself why you answered something entirely different.
- Your example was still a game over. Hatch is not a chance for the remaining survivors (plural!!!). Also in 9/10 games the exit spawn is so bad that even a stealth attempt is futile. Stop pretending something thats obviously untrue!
i read it perfectly, you said its game over when its 3 v 1 with a bot is over….its not as i have just pointed out. at no point in the match is the game over untill ALL survivors have died or escaped.
my example clearly wasnt a game over because i escaped. This is another example of how people misunderstand the game entirely. Everyone has equal chance to be last player standing to get the hatch, someone else could have had it if they played better. The gate escape i am talking about in my example was v ghoul on The Game map…you know how well ghouls map coverage is? pretty bad situation to be in but i still did it.
You are looking at the game wrong saying survivors (plural). A common mistake is people believing the survivors are a team but they are not. Everything points to the fact they are not a team so it makes sense for 1 survivor to escape.
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@iltano88 said:
I honestly don't know what's going on with the MMR in Dead by Daylight lately, but the matchmaking is absolutely soul-crushing. I’m consistently being paired with teammates who seem like they’ve never seen a generator in their lives. While I’m looping the Killer for three gens, my team is either hiding in lockers or urban evading around the edge of the map. It’s exhausting to play optimally and still lose because the matchmaking thinks putting a veteran with three total beginners is 'balanced.' It feels like a 1v4, but I'm the one against everyone
I actually took a several-month break from Dead by Daylight specifically because I couldn't handle the matchmaking anymore. I was tired of the solo-queue nightmare and the constant frustration of being paired with teammates who had no idea what they were doing
I got sucked back into the hype of the new killer and decided to give the game another shot, hoping things had improved. Sadly, everything is exactly the same…..
You have just hit the nail on the head. 1 v 4…people think this applies to the killer being the 1 and survivors being the 4 and while this is true, it is also me as 1 survivor v the killer and 3 other people most of the time.
This is exactly why i prefer stealth over looping, i cant rely on my team to do gens when im looping so i do gens while not being seen. I also cant rely on my team to loop very well or use stealth very well so they end up getting downed very quickly, in this situation i know the hatch and end game gates is a viable option for me so its essentially me against everyone else to make sure im the last man standing so i can get my escape. A common mistake people make is thinking all survivors are on the same page but that is a rare thing in soloq where people have their own challenges like totem cleansing and going for blinds or adepts, have no form of comms, scored individually in almost all aspects of the game from BP to badges to MMR and EXP.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463319/please-survivors-stop-disconnecting
Lets be honest, as soon as you play an early 3vs1 with a bot, the game is over. You cannot blame them DCing after the first one did early.
Still, the devs refuse to take a look at why survivors are DCing (and i dont mean those who just DC for everything) and refuse to take proper steps against those reasons.
Not true at all, the hatch exists and when closed, the gates are still an option. Just had a match where my team did pretty bad (a bot would have been better). 2 gens remain with 1 dead bot, 2 survivors about to die on hook…. When they died, it was hatch hunting time. killer found the hatch, closed it….gates were powered. i stealthed my way to a gate, took my time, opened the gate and escaped. i actually saved the end of the match to show how stealth can be used to escape when things are looking bad with hatch closed.
Point is, its never game over and not an excuse for DCing. Its an option many take because they can.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049725#Comment_4049725
in no world is 4 v 1 better for the killer compared to 3 v 1, thats simple math and no amount number adjustment would change that because if there are 3 strong loopers and 1 weak looper then that 1 weak looper will go out fast.This is what I mean about you continually going to strawman arguments.
Here's what I actually said
"The issue was always tunneling being a possibility, except the 3v1 being made stronger if it happened, in return for unique hook benefits that made the 4v1 easier for the killer"
You just made up a different argument that was easier for you to respond to. Yes, eliminating a survivor will always be strong. The goal was to make it so that it was not so overwhelmingly strong that all other killer tactics were relatively foolish in comparison and that the game was not so completely one sided if a tunnel did occur.
And as i have already said, its simple math. its an elimination game and sooner 1 gets eliminated the better. Making it so 3 v 1 is effectively stronger than it is now which would encourage killers to not tunnel is punishing killers for doing their job which is kill. Another complaint that killers voiced during the PTB. No different to killers getting permanent haste increase whenever a gen is done, it would punish survivors for doing their objective.
The game is not 1 sided if the killer tunnels, its only 1 sided if the killer tunnels a weak looper because the will get eliminated fast. But a strong looper that hold chase long enough for multiple gens to be completed is actually a benefit to the survivors. It also doesnt mean all other killer tactics are foolish by comparison, we see various tactics such as slugging, hit and run, camping, stealth. Not everyone tunnels and not everyone wins when they do tunnel. If survivors learnt to counter as i have then they would understand its not an issue….therefore its not the tactic thats the issue, its the survivors.
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@ImWinston said:
- Perhaps we should understand the reasons that lead DC to some survivors... for years I've heard (and experienced) the same story. If I were Devs, I'd try to understand why, instead of simply punishing with a ban. If this problem is really as serious as we all claim, it's time to ask ourselves some questions.
I have come across many reasons people say they DC, I have read many forums and posts, talked to people in game via chat and the reasons they come up with can be very petty, such as:
- they simply dont like the map
- they simply dont like the killer
- they wanted to show looping skills but went down in 10sec
- team mates go next
- they have a challenge to blind and the killer has lightborn
- they have a totem challenge and others are cleansing the totems
- they dont like a particular perk
- they loop for 3min straight and not 1 person is doing gens
- and my personal favourite that i have heared……"because i can"
My point is, if your looking at reasons why people DC, you cant address them. Which is why punishments for DCing is needed to prevent it. Do we ask "why do people steal?" they want things for free so do we address this by giving people things for free so they dont steal? of course not. We punish people for stealing.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050202#Comment_4050202
My guy, Mr. Tombs—, oops I mean Prometh—, oh wait, runningguy, that's the one you're on now. Have you ever seen the movie The Stepfather? Try to remember which role you're playing at which time. I know it get tricky when there's been so many.
I will take that as you agree, your argument of account age is irrelevant as you have no reasonable argument against it
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049953#Comment_4049953
Clearly shows how you cherry pick and intentionally ignore evidence when its right Infront of you.
There are 27 unique responses in that thread. Two (really it's more like one and a half) make it a 7% rate. Not exactly a hugely popular opinion using the only actual data that is in front of us and not purely anecdotal, unlike this:
Not only that but a few months ago i was in a lobby with a steve and someone else said "if i hear steve scream once i will DC"….he screamed and sure enough someone DC'd Further evidence of people not playing the game due to steve.
"Someone said it to me once a long time ago trust" is not "hard evidence". Start taking screenshots of all these surveys you're sending out on why players do things. I'm sure BHVR would love to see your data.
And if this is the argument, that people don't play due to Steve, how important is that versus the zillion other reasons (again, source: trust me bro) that you give for people DCing any chance you get? You've said people will DC over just about any little inconvenience.
You take the attitude of "if i dont see it, it dont exist"
I mean, yeah, if you can't show me evidence it does, in fact, not exist.
There has been countless threads on these forums over the years where people have flat out said they dodge due to steve.
Yet your account isn't even a year old.
Yet another example of how your arguments are flawed and show you have no idea what your talking about… You are aware you dont need an account to read the forums right? So how long i have had this particular account is irrelevant. When you come out with things like this that makes no sense what so ever it sort of discredits your whole argument basis. You can enjoy your ignorance is bliss…but like i said, your ignorance doesnt help your arguments.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049936#Comment_4049936
First, you said it before anyone else did. You are also well documented giving all sorts of very confident reasons why other people do things, like how you seem to always know exactly why everyone in your matches DCs. We did have a thread recently about dodging here:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/462743/lobby-dodging
Only two mentionings of dodging for potential Steve screams. And one of those said it had to be a whole team, which is pretty rare nowadays. Just about everyrhing from flashlights to toolboxes to globes to TTVers got more mentions.
Also, i didnt mention anything to do with scene partner.
The entire Stevgull act is SP lol
Its getting exhausting correcting you
Then don't.
Exactly, a thread on here that shows people have dodged due to steves, clear evidence that you willingly neglect because people said they dodge over other things more? Clearly shows how you cherry pick and intentionally ignore evidence when its right Infront of you.
Not only that but a few months ago i was in a lobby with a steve and someone else said "if i hear steve scream once i will DC"….he screamed and sure enough someone DC'd Further evidence of people not playing the game due to steve.
There has been countless threads on these forums over the years where people have flat out said they dodge due to steve.
Your ignorance does not automatically mean people are assuming anything, they have valid reasons and in many cases hard evidence to back up their claims….but according to you "your making it up and throwing out wild assumptions" purly because of your own ignorance on the matter because you cant see the evidence the other person has (or you can you just choose to ignore it). You take the attitude of "if i dont see it, it dont exist" which ignorance might be bliss but it doesnt help your arguments when others have evidence and countless hours of experience that you choose to ignore.
I didnt specify stevgul, i only mentioned people lobby dodging based on his scream which there are a lot of perks that can cause screams. Some people just dont like the sound so they dodge, nothing to do with SP in particular, its anything that makes him scream.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049920#Comment_4049920
Because why people lobby dodge seems to matter more than the lobby dodging itself, since you've said you play Sable because people hate her and dodge. Just be consistent. You either care about an issue or you don't. If you don't like Steve just say so but don't make up reasons why it's a good thing that he's been changed by assuming people dodge him because of Scene Partner.
Its not assumption that people dodge because of steve, its a fact i know and has been confirmed in this very thread by someone stating they dodged as killer and survivor when there was a steve in the lobby because of the scream therefore its not made up or an assumption, just because you assume a lot doesnt mean i do lol. Also, i didnt mention anything to do with scene partner. Its getting exhausting correcting you
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049913#Comment_4049913
No one mentioned lobby dodging until you did and now you don't want the topic to be lobby dodging.
Like i said the lobby dodging i refered to was directly relating to this thread. You are picking out something that was said and changing the topic from dodging due to steve and the sounds he makes to dodging due to playstyle and specifically mentioned my playstyle suggesting anyone would dodge me. You are not keeping to the topic of this thread and it appears more like you are trying to start an argument regarding playstyle in a thread about steves scream. Sorry but im not biting, stay on topic as per rules of the forum.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049874#Comment_4049874
You mentioned lobby dodging and anyone would dodge you based on how you play if they knew. You also expressed gladness at a change that reduces dodging yet you think it's funny people dodge you for playing Sable. If you really cared about dodging wouldn't you play someone else?
- i do play someone else, i play lara now.
- reasons for dodging me for my playstyle is irrelevant
once again, this thread is regarding steve and the sound he makes….the lobby dodging i referred to was directly relating to steve and the sound he makes. Your comments have nothing to do with steve or the sound he makes. Your comments are only about lobby dodging and have no connection to the topic of this thread…. if your trying to go down the lobby dodging route for playstyle then i could say playstyle is due to several factors such as gen or tunneling or soloq and we soon find ourselves off topic (all of which have nothing to do with this thread). Please stay on topic 😁
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049857#Comment_4049857
Oh my bad you mentioned bad teammates and how you could just tell in the lo
Where did i mention bad team mates? i said people dodge lobbies because of the sound steve makes (which has been confirmed in this very thread).
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049845#Comment_4049845
Like people who rat and leave their teammates to die!
lol not sure how thats relevant to the topic of the thread, Its about steve and the sound he makes which some people hate so much they dodge lobbies with any steve in it….Nothing to do with rats or playstyle, keep on topic please 😂
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no, just hoping people actually play the game instead of lobby dodging because they cant stand the noise steve made lol.
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Thank you BHVR, its about time. Curious if it will make a difference to the people that usually lobby dodge because there is a steve in the lobby. Hopefully less dodging and more playing.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049633#Comment_4049633
Survivors knowing that the killer will struggle to hook everyone 4 timesThat was never the suggestion. That's just making something up, which leads us to:
Sounds like a good deal but the truth and reality was that removing tunneling when gens still fly didnt work, so much so that killers actually threatened to stop playing.Tunneling was never going to be removed. What was discussed was weakening the incentives to do it, while giving benefits to other styles of play.
Reliance on anecdotes and personal experience is all anyone has to go on.If that was true then discussion would be impossible and pointless. Game design ideas can be discussed in a reasonable and logical fashion.
Example: during the anti-tunnel discussions, one of the unique hook benefits was the basekit BBQ. Some killers argued this would be useless as it survivors would just jump in lockers. Except, logically, that's untrue - if survivors jump in lockers, they aren't on gens, giving the exact type of slowdown that was being requested.
Logic says its not an issue if the problem can be solved with a simple change in playstyle.You're confusing both anecdotes and evidence as well as balance and enjoyability concerns. As many, many survivors have explained, tunneling leads to a bad game experience even if the survivors win. If you enjoy it, great, but that's not a metric for game design.
You're also very single minded on the adaptability - people need to adapt to your preferred style, but the idea of you adapting to a change in game design is out of the question.
Even with number tweaks, as long as tunneling remains a viable option people will tunnel.Again, strawman. You're now trying to mix in a discussion of ethics of tunneling into a discussion of game design elements.
It's also setting up a false comparison - tunneling somehow being entirely nuked out of the game in return for some minute killer buffs. The issue was always tunneling being a possibility, except the 3v1 being made stronger if it happened, in return for unique hook benefits that made the 4v1 easier for the killer. And plenty of survivors were open to discussions on what those benefits / trade offs should be to keep the game balanced.
yes it was the suggestion, the concept of giving a meaningless reward that does not actually benefit the killer and does not stop survivors rushing gens has always been the suggestion why the anti tunnel failed. This backed up by the amount of killers saying gen fly too fast.
Weakening the incentives to tunnel will never work. Thats not a theory or speculation, thats based on fact that as long as tunneling remains a viable option i myself will not stop tunneling so it makes sense that other killers might feel the same. The PTB punished killers for tunneling and essentially did remove it as a viable strat…it was no longer a winning strat. Result is what we have seen, failed PTB and killers saying they will quit.
People didnt say basekit bbq could be easily countered with lockers, they said it was pointless with low tier killers. Great we know the survivors location is on the other side of the map….how do we get there when killers like trapper have such little mobility where killers like blight can zoom over to them in an instant? It made S tiers stronger and made low tiers weaker by giving them a meaningless "buff". There is a reason why low tier low mobility killers dont use the perk bbq often compared to killers like blight and billy. This was tested and proven and people voiced their own individual experience playing the PTB…but you would argue "pft thats anecdotal and personal experience, no need to take that into account".
As far as enjoyment goes, people bring it on themselves to not enjoy the game. They refuse to use anti tunnel perks, they refuse to learn any other way of playing, they refuse to help themselves then say its unfun because the killer tunneled. killers could do that too…refuse to tunnel, refuse to bring chase perks, refuse to use S tier killers, refuse to help themselves then say "the game is unfun because survivors loop and pre run". No, people need to take reasonability and ownership of their own fun and stop expecting others to make the game fun for them. i enjoy the game as killer and survivor, that clearly shows the game can be enjoyable for both sides.
In no world is 4 v 1 better for the killer compared to 3 v 1, thats simple math and no amount number adjustment would change that because if there are 3 strong loopers and 1 weak looper then that 1 weak looper will go out fast. Anything that meant it punishes the killer for eliminating a player which is the goal of the killer and you get killer revolt as we saw. Survivors were open to discussion to what benefits the killer received and only seemed ok with anything that didnt mean they would suffer any sort of meaningful nerf. Not only that but the survivors were never open to the concept of nerfing gen speeds which is my point. It makes no sense for survivors to try and bargain when they have nothing to bargain with which is exactly what happened.
Survivor - "we want you to stop tunneling"
killer - "ok make it profitable to not take out someone asap"
survivor - "we will give you these pointless buffs that makes no difference whatsoever and you can be punished for tunneling"
killer - "not a chance"
survivor - "just stop tunneling, its not fun"
killer - "ok, nerf gens speeds so we can spread hooks"
survivor - Not a chance, gens are boring"
killer - "fair enough get tunneled"
See how survivors are not the ones in a position to be bargaining when killers have openly said what it will take for survivors to get what they want?
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049129#Comment_4049129
you cant offer something meaningless and say there we go offered you something.They were offering three types of unique hook benefits.
if thats the case then slightly nerf tunneling but not enough to make any difference and survivors would be ok with it? not likely.Balance issue - if they had made the unique hook gen kick benefit 100% of course I'd complain about it, but that doesn't mean the concept itself was wrong, just the numbers.
Many killers had concerns about the number of hooks that counted for anti-tunnel or the extent of the penalty. That's fine, as I already said I think everyone was in agreement that the numbers would need tweaks.
However, even before we got any numbers or suggestions on what would happen, there was a lot of killers who were outright opposed to any sort of anti-tunnel.
i noticed when people have no valid argument they often say "strawman" as a means to say "ye i cant argue against it but i wont say that sooooo…… strawman"You can't argue against a strawman because its not a real argument - its one person trying to dictate what the other person's argument is while avoiding their actual argument because they don't have a counter.
In this case you're trying to cover up your reliance on anecdotes by making up a person on the other side who might be relying on anecdotes, except at no point have I made that my argument, thus a strawman.
exactly, unique hook benefits…. doesnt help the killer hook to get the benefits and they didnt stop gens flying. An exaggeration of what actually was offered was basically this: "if the killer makes separate hooks, they get rewarded by getting an instant win". Survivors knowing that the killer will struggle to hook everyone 4 times and will get all gens done in that timeframe were like "sure, im good with that" because they knew what was offered was not addressing the issue and would not stop gens flying. Its an exaggeration but its pretty much what it boils down to. Sounds like a good deal but the truth and reality was that removing tunneling when gens still fly didnt work, so much so that killers actually threatened to stop playing.
Reliance on anecdotes and personal experience is all anyone has to go on. Simply put, i provide my arguments not based on theory or what i see from streamers or imaginary scenarios, or even stats that are wll known to be incorrect… i argue based on facts of my own matches as a regular player with nothing special. As survivor i have no issues with tunneling killers because of how i play. As killer i have no issues with gen speeds because how i play. Logic says its not an issue if the problem can be solved with a simple change in playstyle.
It just proves my point though, survivors want but not willing to give. One day maybe survivors will learn to counter these issues by actually changing from the one playstyle they only know how to use. Facts remain, tunneling has always been part of the game and 2 failed PTB suggest its likely to stay part of the game. Even with number tweaks, as long as tunneling remains a viable option people will tunnel. tweak the numbers so its no longer viable and killers quit. lose lose situation, maybe its time to change tact and try a PTB with increased gen times and see how that goes? i would love to see who complains more, survivors over the gen speeds or killers over the anti-tunneling. My money is on survivors.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049369#Comment_4049369
I guess you weren't playing in the middle of June last year then.
yes i was, people didnt get banned for not healing or doing gens instead or escaping and leaving people on hook, It was and still is reportable AVOIDING the objective. But as long as people dont avoid the objective (gens and escape) then its fair game.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049362#Comment_4049362
Yes. Players were getting auto-banned for doing gens and not healing. 😵
when? i have played since the game first came out and i have never come across anyone being banned for literally doing the objective lol
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049248#Comment_4049248
The last time players made that many selfish plays, an entire playstyle was gutted and the game implemented an auto-ban. 😵 I really don't think you're arguing in your own best interest.
you think they would auto ban players escaping instead of unhooking? or doing gens instead of healing? i really dont think so.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048872#Comment_4048872
Then fine, nerf gen speeds in conjunction with rolling out anti-cheese. But this "I'll stop tunneling if the gen speeds change" pinky swear honor system thing is bs.
im fine with that, i have never said take it on faith or promise that people would stop tunneling because they wont, regardless of the initial reasoning why they started tunneling in the first place. No different to people saying they promise they wont gen rush if tunneling gets nerfed, even if the reason why they started gen rushing was because of killers tunneling, cant take it on promise alone. Nor should we take it on a simple promise, if its available to do then people are free to do it and it would be wrong to tell them "play by my rules, dont tunnel/gen rush". If both were nerfed where tunneling was no longer a winning strat and rushing the gens still gave time for killers to spread hooks then everyone is happy, survivors get an end to tunneling and killers get more time to spread hooks.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049218#Comment_4049218
Because you don't play like most solos, which you've admitted.
which proves another point i have been making for months…. its how we play that matters. Cant win via conventional means like SWF with comms? maybe its time to adapt and change the way we play in solo. If someone is doing ok in solo playing the way they usually play in SWF then great but my point of changing how we play is directed to the ones that struggle and then complain but refuse to change how they play.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049218#Comment_4049218
Different doesn't mean we would have won, it just wouldn't have been a stomp into oblivion. I've been in 4mans who've been beat by killers just like this one. Hell, I've been full-team slugged at 5 gens two minutes in while in a 4man. Full and unpredictable cheese on a skilled, high tier killer is damn near impossible to beat with a team of any normal players. A chat wheel call out that said "spread out" would have helped.
I don't know where you get this struggle narrative from. I played 19 solo matches yesterday. Escaped 11. Thats almost 60%. More than my typical SWF ER. So I'm not struggling. You don't have issues like this because you're probably not getting a whole lot of p100 Blights with all those MMR-less hatch escapes.
Regardless, you admit that SWF would have given advantages even if it was turned from a stomp to a more even match which has always been my point. A chat wheel with spread out might have helped a little but clearly not as much as SWF on comms unless you include a way to call out specific locations to counter fright.
i have said many times all i seem to get is blight after blight after blight with the occasional nurse, ghoul and billy thrown it from time to time. You do love to assume lol but again your assumptions are incorrect. im just satisfied that you acknowledge SWF with comms can have an advantage…an advantage that your dead against soloq having as your previous argument was "SWF doesnt make bad players good"… clearly it would have had some sort of effect in your match where you were slugged which you have now admitted.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048940#Comment_4048940
The game asks why too much of survivors while giving them zero guidance. If there was a ping system and a chat wheel, and a proper tutorial, it might be different. But as it is you need both 1k+ hours and external help to fully understand every killer's abilities, perks, toxic perk synergies, how to optimize your own perks, which gens to do and when, when to unhook, when to heal, who to not heal against, etc.
I had a soloq match yesterday with a Blight who was only slugging. He used Infectious Fright to bounce rapidly between targets. Half the problem is that this killer was using the ability to slug and a certain perk build to intentionally play like a douche, the other half is there was no way for me to tell my teammates what this killer was up to even though I figured it out fairly fast. And this was the result:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GU3SNF5NL823/screenshot-20260126-001922.jpg
A four minute bleedout. If I'd been in a 4man, it would have been different. We would have separated and called out our locations to avoid triggering Infectious, and we all would have quickly known what he was trying for. But countering cheese is extrememly hard for soloqers with what's in place so something has to change. Otherwise, soloqers mostly exist to satisfy killers with easy wins and that's a crappy way for the game to work.
hang on, i thought SWF doesnt make bad players good? You have just proven the very argument i have been making for months….SWF with comms have advantages and no amount of "Wheel" for solo will ever compare to that…comms is whats needed. So your answer is not to provide soloq with comms so they can handle the "cheese" like SWF could but to get rid of the cheese which would make SWF even stronger? Is this why SWF players struggle in solo? do they rely too much on comms and call outs to combat the "cheese"? My guess would be yes being as im a regular solo player and dont really have issues like this.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049105#Comment_4049105
Now your saying im omitting wins which you have no evidence whatsoever for this claim.
Listen: You are throwing an anecdote at the wall here. And according to this anecdote, you managed to get a string of losses that lasted you for months on end. At the same time, this is not reflected among a majority of players, it is not reflected in the stats. Even most newbie killers would likely still score wins here and there.
So your insistence on using a completely unverifiable anecdote as hard evidence of the issue of 'gen speeds' is baseless and preposterous.
The fact is, when i did lose time after time for months and my kill rate dropped the actual stats showed kill rates were below 60%.
This one should be verifiable though! I'd like to see the support for this claim, if you please.
its only recently they have hit the 60% the devs aimed for.
September 2022.
It was neatly at 60% at that point. That's not 'recent'.
The people that are losing due to being tunneled is not because they are being tunneled its because they are losing
Again, if the losing part was the problem, you'd see people be more upset about the fact that the game is intentionally balanced against them.
For years people have actually complained about doing gens and the only fun part is getting chased so it would make more sense that the 1 being tunnled is having all the fun and the 3 others sat on gens are doing the boring bit… thats a freebee, i wont be helping you out with any other of your aguments lol.
Do you actually read what I write, or do you just guesstimate?
Lots have openly said they want 50 50 balance
And how often do we see threads dedicated to demanding that, versus the amount of threads we see talking about gen speed nerfs? Topics about the 40/60 rate never get any traction because people don't care enough about it. Survivors are fine with losing, so long as they can have a good time during it.
Ever wonder why survivors that loop the killer for 3 or 4 gens love it and they would do it all much if they could? its because they get chased and WIN. when the killer downs them, suddenly they dont like being chased anymore and want to do the easy bit of sitting on gens because they know they cant win by looping. funny how the most fun part of the game being chases becomes 2nd priority to gens when they dont win.
Goomba fallacy ahoy?
thats without the plays they can do that would be impossible without comms like knowing exactly when the stealth is coming in an indoor map.
The most 'that's definitely a swiffer' play I ever made was in solo queue.
Also, it's pretty funny to insist that you keep getting matched with the same people but think it's not possible that these same people also get matched within the same pool. Must be swiffer.
Again, you don't have proof they're in a swiffer, much less that they're on comms.
Again your making some very wild assumptions based on nothing. i didnt say anything about back to back SWF when i get 2nd SWF of the evening. i said SWF teams are a common place in my killer matches and solo players are rare. If your going to argue a point you shouldnt make up scenarios and assume….it makes an ass out of u and me.
No, I'm illustrating how confirmation bias can play a role in twisting your perception. You're arguing completely out of emotion and anecdote, both of which are unreliable.
are you oblivious of the posts here recently saying 40% is not enough? or even the posts hating the fact i leave people on the hook to die at the end game instead of saving them? they had a good match, dont matter they didnt win right? ye im pretty sure they do care about losing. which is backed up by them loving to loop all match but hate it when they go down.
you seem to be ignoring everything or just not reading…i have said these SWF teams have openly admitted to being in a team and using comms. there is post match chat and steam profiles so yet another failed argument based on incorrect information.
my arguments are based on facts not emotion, i do what i need to do to win. sounds like the ones getting upset about being tunneled are complaining out of emotion lol
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049029#Comment_4049029
This proves my point. The boosts killers got for spreading hooks did not effect gen speeds which is why killers did not agree to it.Backwards reasoning. You're saying that killers refusal to even consider changes is the fault of survivors.
The compromise is simple, nerf tunneling then gens need to be nerfed too. give and take.Literally what the anti-tunnel was. Both sides where getting something, with the numbers up for discussion. And there was no outcry from the killers 'hey, this is great, but let's just change the gen speeds instead' - that's just a fiction you've created.
If individual experience is anecdotal then same can be said for anyone saying they cant counter tunnelingIf that's all it is, then of course its an anecdote.
But you're again being evasive and not engaging with the point: "People have explained, logically, many times, why tunneling creates a bad game without relying solely upon individual experiences."
it works both ways, you cant dismiss a killer saying they are losing match after match and not dismiss a survivor saying they lose match after matchStrawman argument. There are many possibilities that could be the case for either of those scenarios.
Everyone has complaints, that does not mean everyone's complaints are equally applicable to the broader community and/or reasonable.
you cant offer something meaningless and say there we go offered you something. if thats the case then slightly nerf tunneling but not enough to make any difference and survivors would be ok with it? not likely.
Both sides were not getting anything meaningful…meaningful being the word to use here. Lots were saying when the PTB failed that number tweaks isnr enough, gens still fly.
you say people have explained logically but they havnt, they have explained because they cant counter it. logically it would best for people to adapt like i have.
i noticed when people have no valid argument they often say "strawman" as a means to say "ye i cant argue against it but i wont say that sooooo…… strawman"
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048833#Comment_4048833
It doesnt make any sense to discuss this with someone like you who just turns everything around for his own agenda. At peak gameplay the nurse is the strongest side. Tunneling cant be countered. Thats both common sense. Otherwise, if tunneling could be countered, why do we have to argue against tunneling for years now? Then it wouldnt be an issue to be talked about. Also SWF doesnt compensate for no skill, while tunneling actually does circumvent core gameplay (at equal terms).
sounds like someone that throws out an argument for one side and when that same argument is thrown back at them its suddenly "dont work for both sides".
Tunneling can be countered. i am countering every night to the point as survivor i have no issues with tunneling killers. We argue about tunneling because survivors often refuse to learn any other way to play other than mindlessly run and loop. many opt not to even use the anti tunnel perks available to them.
SWF does compensate for no skill because i have played in a duo with a brand new player with 0 skill at all and they escaped for more with me as a duo SWF than they ever did in solo. I have seen it, lived it, even seen people that play in SWF regularly say they wont do solo because its brutal…ye it can be when you rely on better team mates and comms to carry you.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049071#Comment_4049071
did i say i lost a couple of matches? no….i said i lost match after match, this went on for months
This does more to indicate it's just confirmation bias hard at work. You omit your wins to focus on the losses. Unless you actually did lose that badly, which would be pretty embarrassing, considering the killrates never notably shifted, meaning no one else was having this issue.
Again, though, you just focus on the fact that you lost and then try to pin it on one specific factor while ignoring all others. You putting on a losing spree spanning months is not evidence of gen speeds being too high, because there's another constant in all your matches: You.
If someone spends 50 consecutive matches standing still and doing nothing, they'll also 'lose match after match', but you can hardly blame gen speeds for that.
So why are you certain it's gen speeds?
Using your same argument of losing to justify tunneling not gen speeds…. Survivors losing to tunneling is what makes them hate it.
Wrong. People hate tunnelling even if the killer loses, because it makes for really boring gameplay. One person gets to do nothing but chase, the other three get to do nothing but M1 on a gen.
If survivors cared so much about their winrates, they'd revolt against the 40% escape rate benchmark, but they don't.
While BHVR stats show most people are not in SWF it does not reflect my matches as killer where its rare i got solo players.
And how would you know that, precisely? Because it's a pretty bold claim to make in a game that does not show swiffers.
Also, again, confirmation bias. You could go for three, four matches against solos in a row and when you get your second swiffer of the evening: 'See? Back to back swiffers!'
your saying things like they are facts but they are not, they are just you refusing to accept anything that goes against your own views. first you say "win a couple of matches" which isnt the case at all. Now your saying im omitting wins which you have no evidence whatsoever for this claim. its nonsensical opinions not fact. The fact is, when i did lose time after time for months and my kill rate dropped the actual stats showed kill rates were below 60%. its only recently they have hit the 60% the devs aimed for. Makes sense that the kill rate goes up when people finally started tunneling, now we have the current situation of killers tunneling and the 60% kill rate remaining steady.
Your again not applying your own arguments to the survivor side. The people that are losing due to being tunneled is not because they are being tunneled its because they are losing and the one constant is them in every match. By trying to debunk gen speeds as a reason for tunneling your actually debunking any complaint survivors have for tunneling. So for all the survivors that complain about being tunneled every match and struggle to escape….the one constant is you.
For years people have actually complained about doing gens and the only fun part is getting chased so it would make more sense that the 1 being tunnled is having all the fun and the 3 others sat on gens are doing the boring bit… thats a freebee, i wont be helping you out with any other of your aguments lol.
Lots have openly said they want 50 50 balance and dont think 40% is the right target to aim for so once again this argument is flawed. Ever wonder why survivors that loop the killer for 3 or 4 gens love it and they would do it all much if they could? its because they get chased and WIN. when the killer downs them, suddenly they dont like being chased anymore and want to do the easy bit of sitting on gens because they know they cant win by looping. funny how the most fun part of the game being chases becomes 2nd priority to gens when they dont win.
Its easy to know SWF teams when they admit it post match, i see them in the same lobby together and never with anyone else, they are friends on steam, thats without the plays they can do that would be impossible without comms like knowing exactly when the stealth is coming in an indoor map. Play the same people time and time again and you start to learn who the SWF teams are.
Again your making some very wild assumptions based on nothing. i didnt say anything about back to back SWF when i get 2nd SWF of the evening. i said SWF teams are a common place in my killer matches and solo players are rare. If your going to argue a point you shouldnt make up scenarios and assume….it makes an ass out of u and me.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049043#Comment_4049043
Balance is a scale, 60/40 is the balance the devs set…BALANCE. its not 50/50 even balance is 60/40 balance in favour of killer but its still on the scale of balance.
You put 60 kg on one scale and 40 kg on the other, are they in balance?
Pretty much everything you said there was flat out wrong lol. killers did get nerfed…skull merchant? Myers? they complained for years about tombstone, now thats gone people still complain.
Legion got buffed. Clown got buffed. Singularity got buffed. Pyramid Head got buffed. Freddy got buffed.
All the lower tier killers have been pushed upwards to make them stronger and help them compete with S-tiers. You're acting like survivors got all other killers nerfed when the majority of them have only gone up in killrates. The only notable exceptions being Skull Merchant, whose gameplay was fundamentally broken, and Krasue, who was busted OP on release.
So no, you can't pin this on survivors 'getting other killers nerfed'.
You say most dont actually get SWF with comms but thats your experience
It's nothing to do with experience, it's BHVR's stats. Most players you encounter will not be in swiffers, and not every swiffer is on comms.
It doesnt throw the argument out the window at all because the reason i started tunneling in the first place was due to gen speeds.
No, it was due to losing, remember? You lost a couple of matches, and then you started tunnelling. You are now backwards rationalising it to be whatever it is that you want nerfed, but even if gen speeds never increased (Which they didn't), you would've found another excuse to start tunnelling because all it took to get you going that direction was losing.
It's not gen speeds that dictated your shift to tunnelling, it's losing.
did i say i lost a couple of matches? no….i said i lost match after match, this went on for months until i had a choice, stop playing or find a way to even the odds. i found a way to even the odds and now my matches are pretty balanced, now i win some i lose some.
Using your same argument of losing to justify tunneling not gen speeds…. Survivors losing to tunneling is what makes them hate it. If survivors can loop a tuneling killer all match they wouldnt have an issue but its the fact they lose they have an issue with it. Works both ways
While BHVR stats show most people are not in SWF it does not reflect my matches as killer where its rare i got solo players. If your using BHVR stats then we have to consider the fact the even solo players are escaping 40% of the time and thats with killers tunneling, which shows tunneling isnt an issue. You either have to say BHVR stats are correct and tunneling isnt an issue because people are escaping or say they are not always accurate and dont always reflect players matches. which is it?
Fact remains that survivors want something (tunneling nerfed). They are the ones with the issue and unless they compromise on a solution then tunneling will remain. Nerf it to the ground without meaningful compromises and killers will walk away. Considering killers dont have bots to replace them at the moment i think its pretty important to keep killers playing.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049016#Comment_4049016
once again your ignoring the countless posts saying they dont tunnel and they cant keep up with gen speeds.
And you're disregarding everyone that says they don't have any issue.
You can debate if the 60/40 the devs want is the right move but thats the balance they want…slightly in favour of killers. if killers are not obtaining that then its not balanced in the way the devs want. so its not balanced.
No, that's not what balance means. You can say you're not hitting the mark the developers have set, but you can't say that it's 'not balanced'.
by saying survivors should show skill to counter tunneling thats not from a tunneler point of view….thats from a survivor point of view as a survivor that has no issues dealing with tunneling. You cant complain and say "get good" to a tunneler and not say it to the survivors that cant counter it. Tunneling is exactly what people wanted….constant chase. Well now the one that gets tunneled is in constant chase. People should be careful what they wish for.
You didn't read what I wrote.
We are seeing blights and ghoul EVERY match because this is what people have brought onto themselves
Did they, now?
they asked for other killers to be nerfed
Which they didn't get.
they asked for no tunneling
Which they didn't get.
no slow down perks
Which they didn't get.
they join SWF with comms
Which most actually don't get.
the result is people will play S tier killers alot more which kills the variety of the game.
So a bunch of people hallucinating some alternate timeline in which survivors get everything they demand are the reason we are seeing exclusively S-tiers?
I dont use S tier killers or slow down perks…instead i choose to tunnel to even the playing the field.
It's nice that you try to draw this dichotomy, but a lot of people also experience that it's specifically the slow-stacked S-tiers that are most likely to tunnel, which throws another spanner in your theory of 'it's all the survivors' fault'.
As previously said if gen speeds got reduced and tunneling is allowed then i will still tunnel
Which kind of throws the 'tunnelling is prevalent because gen speeds are too high' argument out the window, doesn't it?
Balance is a scale, 60/40 is the balance the devs set…BALANCE. its not 50/50 even balance is 60/40 balance in favour of killer but its still on the scale of balance.
Pretty much everything you said there was flat out wrong lol. killers did get nerfed…skull merchant? Myers? they complained for years about tombstone, now thats gone people still complain.
You say most dont actually get SWF with comms but thats your experience…mine is very different and constantly get SWF teams to the point i get them repeatedly throughout the night sometimes multiple times in a row. Others have also seen this SWF influx so its not just me.
You have evidence of it being S tier killers that are more likely to tunnel? this is not the case in my matches because most S tier killers are speedy killers that bring pain res which is useless for a tunneling killer.
It doesnt throw the argument out the window at all because the reason i started tunneling in the first place was due to gen speeds. If that wasnt the case i would never have even considered tunneling, it would never have been part of my rule set to tunnel. Its like saying gen rushers will rush regardless of if tunneling is nerfed so the ones saying they gen rush to compete with tunneling have no valid argument because they will still gen rush.