mizark3
mizark3
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@Batusalen said:
Well, that's what you get when they make decisions that leaves 90% of the killer roster unviable and the only way of pressuring survivors is using the unholy trinity of strategies they don't like.
So yeah, even for me that don't play survivor as much have had this experience when I did, and also the inverse. That's why I don't play as much at all recently.
Just because 90% of the Killers aren't viable in tournaments (with vastly different rules and playstyles), doesn't mean they aren't viable in normal matchmaking. That is a defeatist attitude to not even consider trying.
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@UnknownKiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530143#Comment_3530143
Press drop keyboard to drop turret
Wow, thanks, let me take the 2 second drop item animation when the Killer is exiting the tunnel to just get hit during the animation also destroying the turret! /s
That is unless you were making a joke about giving up and not playing against Xeno, then fair enough, I'd rather any Killer not be an instant quit/give up though personally.
Edit: To be clear, some matches the turret beeping might be bugged, because it isn't making noise and the Killer comes out of the tunnel. I frequently grab a turret at the start of the match, and it doesn't beep and the Xeno emerges. By the time I drop the turret and finally start to run, they are already lunging or prepping a tail attack and they get a free hit.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530210#Comment_3530210
No, Sprint Burst gives 6m OVER THREE seconds. Accounting for the speed difference between killer and survivor (0.6), survivors travel 18m and killer travels 13.8m, so it gives 4.2 meters. The distance gained by Sprint Burst also isn't reset by every pallet break/vault/mindgame won against the killer, nor does it account for extra distance traveled INSIDE loops that were designed to be played at 4.0.
So again, assuming we start off with 10m of distance, SB extends it to 14.2m over 3 seconds. Over the next 12s, killer gains distance at 0.6m/s, at which point it's 7m of distance remaining, killer gets BL1, and gains distance at a rate of 0.8m/s, and catches up over 8.75s. Total chase time from beginning to end was 23.75s, or 101m traveled by the survivor. As compared to 19.12s from MFT (which again, resets after every distance gain by survivor and doesn't account for extra loops inside tiles or misplays recovered from). Sprint Burst buys you 4.63s on use, then loses you 2.87s on every 10m reset as compared to MFT.
Balanced perk yall.
So wait, Sprint Burst gets ~24s of chase time, but MfT gets ~19s. Where is the complaint? The time gets 'reset' but all it is resetting is whether or not you make the window/pallet in time. If you would make it without MfT you would make it with. Even then, how is Bloodlust not accumulating to T2 and T3 if MfT is extending the chase time by so long? Unless it is a god pallet, the Killer is in control of Bloodlust. A stun drops 1 tier, and a pallet break drops all. The Killer can simply respect/ignore the pallet and keep building Bloodlust to force the down. Why is MfT resetting distance while also resetting Bloodlust to nothing? If the Killer is getting a hit against an SB user in Bloodlust 1, that just means the same Killer needs only wait 10s for Bloodlust 2 and have an easier time than the BL1 SB chase. (.88m/s difference instead of .8, or ~21% faster BL T2 vs MfT compared to 20% faster BL T1 non MfT)
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530266#Comment_3530266
This is just completely changing the conversation lol. It's not about how bad or good the rest of the game went, it's about completely invalidating end game as a real section of the game. Again sometimes you just wind up 2 hooking everyone, MfT + Hope encourages tunneling because it means getting to endgame is a death sentence and that's not healthy for the game. Getting to endgame doesn't mean the killer played badly you can easily get anywhere from 7-9 hooks and get to end game and then the game is just over because you're never catching anyone after that.
If this is literally what we're saying is okay then just get rid of opening doors completely and have the game end after 5 gens are done. Because apparently we're saying unlocking doors should be trivial and irrelevant to any tension left in the game by that point.
I wouldn't say it invalidates end game as a phase. What I'm saying is they still have to physically open the gates, and that is on a 20s timer. If I killed 0 people reaching endgame, I lost. Even if I catch the first Survivor I find, by the time I plop them on hook, the other 3 can easily have left through the gates, or if I slugged, someone could slip by while I'm chasing the 2nd person and I'd be back at square one. Instead, Survivors throw matches to get extra hook saves and greed the 4 man escape. I would argue that artificially inflates kill stats. In all likelihood, if Killer reaches endgame without a kill by then, they lost the match. Losing by a secured 4 man escape because of Hope is hardly different from a secured 3 man escape because the normal gameplay feature that you can't be everywhere at once.
Personally I encourage 2 hooking everyone (and that's why I don't tunnel) because it ensures that as Killer you are closer to the skill level of your MMR. If a Killer artificially inflates their kill rates, they will go against people who are more skilled than them, forcing them to crutch on the things that caused them to be in that scenario to begin with. That is where I believe many of the Killer's complaints stem from. They won with the free win version Eruption, but never developed the skill to survive without it. Then with the crutch removed, they started losing and crutching on camping/tunneling. Then hook grabs were removed making it even harder to crutch with facecamping. Now Killers who crutched are dealing with Survivors of their MMR (but not of their skill level), and thus are popping all the gens before 4 hooks.
I entirely disagree that either MfT or Hope encourage tunneling. It literally makes it easier to spread hooks and force pressure on Survivors when they are playing without a perk slot. I'd say Adrenaline is worse for the game than Hope, because Adrenaline players play to win, Hope players play to delay their death. Adrenaline encourages skipping the heal post-hook for pumping the final gen. The game roughly functions with Surv A on hook, B in chase, C going for the rescue and subsequent heal, and D to pump gens. When you are chasing someone on death hook, no one is prepping to rescue them, so you effectively have 3 Survs on gens. That makes it better to force the equilibrium with 1 gen being progressed at all times. It isn't impossible to down people with Hope+MfT, just harder. If they have no teammates to open the gates for them, they also can't exactly make use of the speed boost.
I do find it funny though that when I echo your sentiment for the other side (with video and picture proof of my claim, when you provided none for yours) that you claim I am 'changing the conversation'. Endgame isn't invalidated as long as Killers can still play the game. Huntress can still throw hatchets, Trapper can still trap gates, and the baby Legion can still hold W and build Bloodlust.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530181#Comment_3530181
Awful logic, survivors can do well without meta perks nevermind getting there with 3 great perks like windows, MfT and resilience (most commonly sometimes it's sprint burst or prove instead). Not to mention it's not uncommon to get to end game just because 3 people got two hooked without anyone dying.
Getting to end game is not a reason to throw game balance out the window. Literally by this logic Devour Hope should not be a hex and just be permanent if the killer is doing so well and survivors are losing they should just give up the game completely which is obviously not true.
Awful logic, Killers can do well without meta perks (and see picture below) nevermind getting there with 3 great perks like your choice of Lethal Pursuer or Corrupt, Pain Res, and Pop. My matches as Killer end before the Survivors complete the gens in more than 70% of matches, and I could only be considered great on a good day, and certainly not excellent. I also never intentionally tunnel (if you tap the gen in my face you are fair game), and I only camp at the final 10-20s of a hook stage if the Survivors greed gens instead of going for rescues. With a 50% winrate being the norm, you are going to have to lose as many matches as you win.
My point with end game is that it is clear the Killer already lost if they couldn't secure a win (or even a single kill) against 3 perk Survs by then, Hope just secures the victory. It isn't Hope itself and haste stacking, but the entitlement of winning a match someone was so outclassed in and deserving of losing that is absurd to me.
The Devour 'by this logic' would certainly apply if you locked in Devour stacks and the totem when reaching endgame. The Survivors had all the chance to cleanse the totem, or insta-rescue/leave people on hook to deny stacks, and if they greeded the gens before cleansing Devour then sure. If the Survs popped the gen the second the Exposed was revealed, then the Killer only gets perma Exposed. If they had 3 people on hook at 2 stacks, the 4th Surv rescued everyone sequentially and the Killer waited out the final gen pop for free Moris, then by all means. You are probably going to only get 2 kills with the Moris, but you do you.
End game is the last chance to make up for failures as Killer. I'm fine with a perk that says "you have a harder early game but no challenge late game" for Survivor, and that is essentially what Hope does.
I had a Freddy game just before the Xeno patch (for a daily) where I had my 2 totems cleansed before the second hook, which means all I had was my 2 remaining perks (that they weren't failing skillchecks against sadly, maybe because it was while OC was still bugged to not give the skillcheck if you tap the gen). I still managed to win before endgame. 3 MfTs, 3 Windows, 2 Resils, 2 Hopes, and a DH (I even kept swinging into that DH because I was mixing up who had it), and yet it didn't matter. I didn't even tunnel as the least BP Survivor got ~16k BP. This is why I find complaints against Hope and MfT to be jokes. I'm good, great on a favorable day, and I have hearing damage from a previous job, so that means plenty of people should be better than I. If I can get a 4k against 3 MfTs and 2 Hopes, I don't see why anyone else is having problems.
(I don't even like Freddy, I just P9 all Killers and Survivors for the charms. Working down the list on Pyramid Head and Nea now.)
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529866#Comment_3529866
3 is 20% out of 15.
Also where do you get your 0.45 seconds from?
In an idealized example of a 10 meter head start for a survivor, running in a straight line and against a killer with no chase effective power (like many of the roster are):
With MFT:
- 15 seconds of 0,48 m/s gain (115% killer with 4,6 m/s vs 103% survivor with 4,12 m/s) before bloodlust kicks in -> distance reduced by 7,2 meters down from 10m (distance traveled 61.8m)
- bloodlust stage 1 kicks in and gives 5% movement speed/0.2 m/s, so 2.8 Meter at 0.68m/s gain -> time to close the remaining gap is 4.12 seconds (distance traveled 16.96m)
Time to catch-up is 19.12 seconds while travelling 77.76 meters to get to another pallet or window.
Without MFT:
- 15 seconds at 0.6m/s difference -> 9 meter caught up (60 meter traveled)
- BL 1 for 1 meter -> 0,8m/s gain -> 1.25 seconds (5 meter traveled)
Time to catch-up 16.25 seconds and 65 meter traveled.
That's roughly 17% more time (2.87sec) for the chase and 19.6% more distance (12.76m) traveled.
And this is only for 115% killer, not even the 110% ones.
I'm curious what Killers you consider as M1 with no effective chase power? Many of their power's are to NOT chase. Ghostface is based on stealth and instadowns. Legion is based on keeping everyone injured, so that they are never safe to rescue hooks and need to pre-run causing multiple people to run at once. Clown has a combined 25% haste+hindered difference (technically +.46 -.6, so 1.66m/s difference). Everyone else has Bloodlust which only takes 15s to get T1, so if you get outplayed for 15s you can still force the loop and get the down.
@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530051#Comment_3530051
Survivors get 110% speed boost in end game making them as fast as some killers and making other killer the same as tier 1 Myers.
"Killer can just bring an easily destroyed 4% speed boost to counter it"
Make it make sense.
I'm sorry but do you think someone who loses against opponents with 3/4 perks deserves to win when they get the 4th perk? That'd be like if I said "Oh yeah the Killer with NOED got 9 total hooks before he finally killed me (edit: as his first kill) and we only finished 2 gens, but I deserved a gate escape!" The person who lost deserves to lose, especially if they lost against a handicap in their favor.
@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529694#Comment_3529694
No, the perk itself is beyond busted. 20% extra distance makes up for so many misplays. The perk needs a top-down rework.
How about we make a perk for killers where they get an extra 5% permanent speedboost if there's two gens left?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529696#Comment_3529696
Sounds like you played against my Blight yesterday. I had my name as BlightBecauseMFT. Although I didn't tunnel anyone but I did play very sweaty.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529866#Comment_3529866
Some killer powers are unusable around certain tiles and become an active hinderance. And 3% is 20% of 15, hence the 20% figure... It's also 30% of 10%, so it's technically 30% against 110 killers. Bloodlust doesn't exist to make up for the existence of MFT, it exists to make up for ultra safe map design, which MFT exacerbates.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529885#Comment_3529885
Self-Care is only "bad" against Sloppy. I hate the "haha self care bad" meme. Self Care is slower on aggregate than an altruistic heal (40s vs 32s) but doesn't require a rotate to heal you, nor does it require two people to be together, with one of them being injured. It lets someone reset in a vacuum. The only reason why Self Care was ever "bad" was because COH was broken.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529918#Comment_3529918
Don't forget prerunning 10 hours in advance as soon as a TR is heard because God forbid a killer should have to hold W for less than 30 seconds to even catch up to a survivor.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529938#Comment_3529938
Let me make the same argument for something survivors complain about. Ahem,
Alchemist's Ring IS all rush tokens recovered. But all rush tokens recovered can mean anything depending on how that chase is managed. So many players just play like bots and bump formulaicly instead of using proper bump logic or even flicking properly.
Alchemist's Ring isn't "free" like many survivors are arguign, nor is it quite as OP as survivors make it out to be. It's still a very strong addon, but in practice, playing Blight as an M1 killer is more effective. I've seen many, many Alchemist's Ring users whiff their rushes over and over again right as they're about to hit me, or even keep using their power over and over again and whiff when they could have forced the pallet down much sooner by holding down W, screwing themselves over so much more.
Is the point evident now? An overpowered mechanic is only overpowered in the hands of someone who isn't a complete bot. Arguing "most players are bad" is arguing in bad faith. We don't balance the game around the lowest common denominator, we balance it around the level where players are playing somewhat competently and have a general idea of how to loop/chain tiles. In this scenario, MFT is so broken as a chase extender against any killer without a proper chase power.
This final point I think you are mistaken on. "We don't balance the game around the lowest common denominator". That is technically true, we are supposed to balance around both the average and most common (or median and mean) cases. The top 5% and the bottom 5% don't matter, and MfT can only be considered a problem in the top 5% (sweat SWFs on comms). Blight (and his add-ons moreso) can be considered a problem across all levels. Everytime I ask for proof MfT gives even an extra window vault where a normal Survivor wouldn't get, I get nothing. If MfT guaranteed 3 safe window vaults where 2 window vaults then a hit during the 3rd at every loop was the normal scenario, I could see it being this boogeyman it is being made out to be. It alongside Resilience just seems to be a lag negator. So Killers are used to the natural lagvantage and lose it against these perks. Resilience saves ~.04s at fast vaults, or 40ms, which is roughly my normal latency on my own server. I can see everytime I get the pallet stun+injury I had lagvantage as Killer, but many people are unable to come to terms with this.
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The turrets probably need a buff. It seems like they took all the wrong feedback from Singularity. "You can just grab and go and use it while running." Ok, now you have to spend 2-3s grabbing the turret, get 35% hindered while carrying the turret, and 2-3s to set up the turret after you get the wonky collision to actually accept placement on the map (more disgusting on indoor maps/structures). On top of all that, the Killer can reaction tail whip a turret without add-ons and still stay in power. The turret add-ons (range and flame resistance) are training wheels kind of like Plaid Flannel on Nurse. Once Xenos learn the timing, they will be even more powerful.
Also if you are trying to grab a turret when Xeno pops out of the tunnel, they get a free hit. Maybe make that count as a destroyed turret (for the map limit and cooldowns), but take 2-3s longer to get out of the tunnel. There is a similar problem if you grab the turret and walk 2 steps before the Xeno emerges, but that is a different issue. To fix that, I would remove the hindered, but make it so if you run, you drop the turret without using an animation. That way you can only use the normal walk 2.26m/s instead of the current 2.6m/s 'running' speed carrying a turret with the 35% hindered. This does boost the slowdown with turrets, but removes free hits from carrying turrets as well.
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@Depressedlegion said:
There is a sound cue when charging the tail attack.
@LynxRecruit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/389704/xenomorph-is-awful-to-play-against
Your comment about there being a lack of a sound cue or lack of an indication is completely untrue.
The Xenomorph has 2 sounds to audibly warn the survivors of the tail being used, one for when the tail is being charged and the other for when the tail is being swung, The window is very short, but it is entirely audible and any player who hears it has more than enough time to dodge the swing.
Along side this the Alien has a visual animation of the tail moving back to prepare for a swing before the attack is unleashed, thus unless you are not paying attention to WHAT the alien is doing or predicting what they are doing, that is NOT a problem with the killer that is a problem with you as a player.
The flame turrets have their purpose and should not be understated, each box can have up to a maximum of 5, use them, if there are multiple flame turrets on a single gen, the alien can't get them all without letting you get away.
Along side this, the tentacle is thinner than nemesis's but the room for dragging the hitbox is entirely possible, stick to loops he cannot hit you over and you will be perfectly fine, as anytime the alien commits to actually trying to swing, not only is their mouse movement restricted when the swing goes out, they are locked into a movement penalty and a long cool down.
@pizzavessel15 said:
there is both indication and sound lmao
The tail windup is .2s, the average human reaction time to sound is .17s, so if you have normal reflexes you get hit as long as the latency of you and the Killer summed together is more than .03s, or 30ms. I don't know about you, but I average 40ms when I get my server, and have had about 20-40% red bar Xenos so they frequently have a massive lagvantage. Also, the Xeno can just wait for you to vault the window instead, using the average visual reaction time of .25s. .25 visual reaction +.2 windup = .45s, when the Fast Vault takes .5s, so the Xeno gets the hit. Even if the Survivor has Resilience, they vault in .4587s, so they still get hit by a REACTION Xeno tail. Also mouse movement isn't restricted enough to prevent vertical drags for hits over loops, and normal WASD physical movement for greater horizontal drags. Just revert everything other than the animations to the PTB values, it was fair then.
@drsoontm said:
Watching Otz as Xeno, many survivors seem to have very little problem dodging the tail.
Yeah, Zarina dodged the tail no problem here, https://youtu.be/lKZhsLge1O0?t=210. Its a shame that her outplaying Otz bought her 3-4s before she got M1'd because there is no miss slowdown worth mentioning.
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Can we please remove the Killer Instinct on exiting a tunnel? It's silly enough that the Killer can get a free hit against anyone grabbing a turret at or carrying one nearby the tunnels, but you can't even hide when there is no indication the Killer is coming. At least Nurse and Blight can be stealthed out against their oppressive chase, but you can't even risk touching a gen without knowledge on the Xeno's location. The footsteps are good enough for tracking/free intel.
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Honestly I almost think the camera reversion to crotch height would fix enough of the problems (relative strength and bugs) that it would be worth it without otherwise touching up his basekit. His add-ons are a sick joke though. In what just world is Demo's Iri add-on touched before ANY of Blight's busted retinue.
I heard the excuse that some of Blight's add-ons might need deeper changes than simple number tweaks, but simple number tweaks or commenting out effects can be done to many of them. Adren Vial speed removed, token recovery boost nerfed to .5s from 1s. Rat/Crow, only provides the current stacking speed as a flat boost to rush speeds (copy the code from current Adren Vial, drop numbers to 6/4%). C33 delete the pallet break line of code or (to bring a larger nerf hammer to Blight in general), unlock the current basekit pallet break with the add-on, and remove the basekit pallet break. Sadly, yes, this means no simple fix for Alch Ring, but they could swap it and the nerfed C33 in terms of rarity to keep it from showing up too much in Bloodwebs.
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I'm sorry, but you gotta bring better fake hits than that. That was basic latency, and should normally be a hit. I'm worried about being halfway to the ground from the 2nd story and getting up somehow. Heck, Otz and other content creators have better(more extreme Bullschenanigans) lag hits in their weekly compilations.
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The same has happened sporadically with me. It probably happens 1 in 3 games, or 1/5-10 Blast Mines. Sometimes when I place the trap and sprint off, I leave a 'ghost' behind at the gen, and my camera still can move., but my model follows my camera, not the 'ghost'. I don't know what resets the 'ghost', but it seems to fix itself if the player decides to actually play in the match (aka hook save/heal/work gens). It seems silly that placing the trap and running off (the primary use of the perk) is what seems to activate the bug.
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How do you stop the Xeno from getting a free hit on you or your teammate when grabbing a turret while the Xeno exits the tunnel in the first place? That appears to be a very common problem, especially in early game. The person goes to grab a turret, Xeno explodes the turret while exiting the tunnel. Alternatively you get the turret, but walk 2 steps before Xeno jumps out of the tunnel, and you are either locked into the ~2s drop item animation, or forced to waddle towards a loop while carrying the turret, hoping the injured chase will be better off.
Also to echo Nirgendwohin, what about when the Xeno calls your bluff at a loop? They just get a free M1 instead. Where is the counterplay? Where is the slowdown on miss?
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@dbdthegame said:
Must only be because it's "fun", and that statistic says nothing about its actual performance. Yep, that's gotta be it. MFT is certainly fair and balanced. We must NOT nerf MFT. No sir.
You'll forgive me if I take the self-reporting lobbies of predominantly sweatlords with a grain of salt, but lets say we take your logic (popular = nerf) and apply it to more things and see if it holds up.
MfT (~27%) and Windows (~35%) are the 2 most picked perks apparently in need of nerfing, so we'll also nerf Jolt (~18%) and Pain Res (~20%), but to be fair we'll nerf those half as much as Windows and 75% as much as Mft is getting nerfed, to match the rough proportionate pick rates.
Lets also nerf the top 5 picked Killers, and buff the bottom 5, remember popularity is what matters, not kill/escape rates. So up for nerfs are Wesker (~8%), Huntress (~6%), Blight (5%), Clown?!?! (~5), and Legion?!?! (4.5%). Now for buffs we get Twins (~1%), Hag (~1%), Skull Merchant... (~1.5%), Freddy (~1.5%), and Artist (~1.5%). I'm not sure nerfing Clown and Legion while buffing Twins Hag and Artist is the greatest of ideas, let alone Skull Merchant.
I'm sorry, but after patch 6.1 I never want to see a popularity based buff/nerf to perks/killers ever again. Heck, part of the reason MfT is even a problem is because Thana was hard deleted immediately after being overbuffed in that patch. Pop is mostly reverted to its old glory, so I would like to see Thana reverted to 5% or at least 4.5% per Surv. Also I don't know about your games (as Survivor), but I have faced what I would consider an absurd extreme of tunneling after the DS nerf. It may not exclusively be on me as the direct victim, but the baby Feng who dies in single digit seconds in chase turns the match into a 3v1 before we even have a chance to play in all too many games.
Now to be fair, I would hard remove MfT's Endurance. Maybe graft it onto Buckle Up instead, either or. Second, I would have the heal percentage (or more accurately not healed percentage) correspond to the buff percentage gained from MfT and Resilience. So for example, 0% healed gives full value, and half healed gives 4.5% Resil, 1.5% MfT. This is to prevent 99'ing the heal. Maybe a buffer zone for under the 20% mark where you arguably haven't quite gotten healed yet, and the Killer might be tunneling. I also wouldn't be opposed to Dark Theory and MfT having their haste numbers swapped as an alternative route.
As an aside to a common nerf suggestion, personally I don't consider haste stacking a problem, because if I as Killer lost against 4 Survivors with 3 perks each (in mid-game), why would I deserve a kill against Hope in late game? Just the same if I die first as Survivor as the 9th hook of the match at 2-3 gens, would I deserve a gate escape against a NOED user despite losing so profoundly against their 3 perks? They already outskilled/outresourced me without a final perk, I lost. That just seems like entitlement from the person who lost.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529244#Comment_3529244
They changed fast vaults so that survivors would get more distance. However, this also caused a number of seperate issues like survivors getting i-frames during the animation, vaults also being faster (more distance in the same amount of time) and for some reason male survivors would get more distance than female survivors.
Now they reverted these changes (presumable to fix these issues and then imlement it again) but male survivors still vault further than female survivors.
On the topic: It feels good being able to hit survivors at vaults again. I cannot press this enough but if you get hit after the animation, then that is a latency issue. You can stand still after a fast vault and the killer should not be able to hit you.
The problem with 'getting hit so late being a latency issue', is you can't tell a laggy/VPN region swapping/region mismatched killer in the lobby. You load into a match, and you never know if they are using a VPN for lagvantage until it is too late. If there was a ping indicator in the pre-game lobby I wouldn't have a problem with this. As is though, it sucks to have Killers intentionally cheating the system, or getting put on the wrong server and not knowing/being made aware.
Even then, the current ping indicators aren't good enough. I saw a Mikaela in my lobby with red ping (and not on the other 2 Survs), then when I loaded into the match my ping was even worse than her ping, and I had no indication of my own lag in the lobby. It clearly put us in the wrong server, but there was nothing I could (legally) do to fix the game's problem because it refused to keep me informed while I could do something about it.
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Playing against Xeno as Survivor is basically a soloq check. Did 1 person forget to place a flame turret (or get their turret destroyed because Xeno was exiting that tunnel)? 4 man kill. Did everyone place their flame turrets? Multiple escapes. It is like they took all the bad design concepts that make Pinhead unenjoyable to go against and dialed them to 11. Xeno was fine and fair on the PTB with the smaller hitbox and punishing misses, but now you can play like a broken bot and still win if you go against solos.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/389674/blight-should-be-a-4-4-killer
I agree with changing his base movemwnt speed.
Tho i had a problem here.
You said its most OP killer in the game, but a sentence later You said that people who play him, cannot win without tunneling.
How are those two sentences not contradict eachother for You?
To be fair this could be referring to the amount of people who jump on the OP bandwagon to compensate for their lack of skill. This was seen in Forever Freddy days with Undying+Ruin and when he had add-ons that slowed gens down even further. When you take a Forever Freddy or a bad Blight out on a chase, they can't quite win except through attrition. Sadly if you have 1 bad teammate, they are given all the attrition they need and will win an undeserved victory.
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@JiggleWiggle said:
I have tested this combination on ps5. I was able to reset the trapped pallet and also gain progress towards another one. But I did not get any blinds that match entirely. No matter if the pallet was trapped and reset or just trapped. No blinds
Did you use both perks, or did an ally reset the pallet? It might be when an ally does it. I had roughly a minute left on my Chem Trap when the allied Ada reset the pallet while the Killer (Xeno) was carrying me to hook. I didn't notice until after I got unhooked that I couldn't Chem Trap anymore as I thought it was timed out and I simply needed to re-earn the perk. The perk was staying lit up like it was ready to place again when I finally noticed, but it wouldn't let me set it on a different pallet.
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I'm personally not a fan of Plague, but mainly because she deletes altruism from the game. Killers mechanics should be additive on the base game, or sideline/shifting, not subtractive. You can heal into Legion, its a bad idea, but you can do it. Plague deletes the potential from the onset. Also there is a bug/exploit(?) with PWYF in that she gains stacks but doesn't lose them with the infection puke. That means she can be a ~130 Killer while still being able to injure everyone, then only drops to ~125 when downing someone.
Even then, Plagues have a tendency to camp and 3-gen because her kit encourages it. Puke and OC+Eruption on 3gens, and you can camp just like SM. People have to heal to go for rescues, so then she can either get her power and snowball the remaining 3, or she intentionally defends the back pool to prevent pool healing and camp the person in the 3gen to death. She was a problem before SM even came out, but I feel like less people abuse her in this manner.
Personally I would add the ability to pre-cleanse at a pool to get a limited item with 2 uses. So you can cleanse early and get access to healing multiple people, or cleanse late and only get one on yourself. This would let you 'heal' allies still for altruism points as well. This would also allow for easier overcleansing to force a corrupt purge against a camping Plague. Maybe even let you use it to cleanse all infected objects in a short range. It wouldn't prevent a re-infection, but it would allow for you to stealth out a Plague trying to 3 gen the second she leaves at that same cost of giving her the red puke.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528184#Comment_3528184
... Can't believe I have to explain this, but: Are you being able to get on something you shouldn't be able to get on? Yes? It gives you any kind of advantage doing so? Yes again? Then it's an exploit. Or a bug that you are exploiting, if you will.
Still not seeing the fun in that.
You are supposed to fall right? You are supposed to move right? If you have momentum while falling, you move while falling right? If this wasn't intended, they would add a physical barrier, glass if they wanted people to see through but not move through. This is bad and lazy design. Try shredding as Demo off of the 2nd story on near any map (Garden in particular) now and tell me where you DON'T hit an invisible wall. Invisible walls are bad design because they don't show a barrier for movement.
This standing on a short object isn't exactly new. The Harvester left side hay bale can be jumped on and hit by M1 Killers from below, just the same with the railing on Toba Landing. Survivors can fall past the railing and Killers can fall past the railing. There is no exploit, this is good design. Slapping an invisible barrier everywhere because physical barriers are 'ugly' is horrifically bad design.
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@Hex_Maidenless said:
The value in the perk is in the information on where your teammates are leaving a locker. The other effect is inconsequential. I don't understand how anyone could have played solo survivor in their entire lives and not understand this, but here we are, I've seen literally dozens of people on the forums completely miss the point.
Chemical Trap is honestly probably worse. It's almost impossible to set up a real in-game situation where it contributes anything other than a light-up marker for your teammates (which is still useful, but Blast Mine is straight up better in every way).
I think people are sleeping on Chem Trap. Against normal Killers you can place it after you drop before they can kick it. 50% slowdown for 4 seconds is basically a 2 second extra stun. On top of that, it is quite possible to lose chase as a result, which means no Bloodlust build up on the way to the next loop. The only problem is Xeno is kind of like a melee Huntress or Pyramid Head in the sense that pallets are a losing proposition for the Survivor, and make it on the Killer to lose instead of a normal 50/50. Its like when you get a pallet stun tome, then the game gives you Nemmys/Nurses/Deathslingers. Once we go back to normal matchmaking, getting an extra 2s 'stun' on a Blight is massive, and actually lets you hold W to the next loop instead of getting hit en route.
As far as Lucky Star, I don't know how good figuring out where people are without any type of value being added. I'd much rather have Bond/Empathy for allies, or Alert/Fogwise for the Killer, or Any Means Necessary for both plus extra utility. I'd say Lucky Star would be much better if it permanently silenced grunts of pain while injured and in a locker. AFK crows prevent wasting too much time, so this just gives you however long it takes for the Killer to stop hovering, which is usually 10-20s to kick the pallet/gen and look around the rocks.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528571#Comment_3528571
I have a sneaking suspicion this one isn’t on Disney, actually.
We’ll have to wait for another original chapter to confirm, but I have a feeling this was a choice made by BHVR execs, not so much Disney.
Yeah, I'm willing to give BHVR some benefit of the doubt (and probably am more than happy to lay the blame down on Disney), but I am under no illusions as to what may actually be happening. As long as there is enough pushback, hopefully this doesn't continue, or at least we are given our choice of forced skin. Personally I wouldn't be complaining if I could have had the Alien Queen or Grid Xeno skin instead. As it stands though, I don't like being given a mediocre skin (at best) and being forced to pay an extra 5 bucks to get the characters. There should always be the characters only option.
Alternatively if perks weren't tied to DLC ownership, and simply entered the bloodweb (with Prestiging still giving them to all characters for free), I would also be fine with it. Heck, even if you only got 1 random unowned perk tier at L50 on a character that would be fine. That would take 9 prestiges per character you want to add all the new content on, so it would give plenty of playtime to fit a freemium model.
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Honestly this has been a problem forever with Resilience. Personally I would have Resilience/MfT give you a percentage of the bonus, equal to how un-healed you are. 0% healed, or 100% unhealed? Full 9% Resil and 3% MfT. 50% healed/unhealed? 4.5% Resil and 1.5% MfT. 99% healed, or 1% unhealed? .09% Resil and .03% MfT. I wouldn't expand this to Iron Will, simply because the perk needs to be reverted to its pre 6.1.0 state or at least have 1 of the limitations removed (the missing 25% or the non-exhausted effect).
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528579#Comment_3528579
The camo skin doesn't have any straps, as well. Essentially, the most optimal play is running camo skin + scarecrow mask. It's quieter, and no straps to give corner positions away - but boy is the OG black cloth awesome to play as. At least it has less strap issues. :)
Last I recall the skin had the same volume of cape flaps, it just is bugged during half of its release (then fixed, then bugged again, then fixed, then bugged again), making the average noise lower. When it works properly it should be the exact same volume and sound distance as all the other skins strap flap noises and all (just no visual of the straps).
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528561#Comment_3528561
Feels like playing OG black cloth ghostie outfit and white mask vs the bush camo skin with scarecrow mask. Pay to lose (the black cloth doesn't blend well with most maps, the cloth is very loud, and the white mask truly makes you stand out), but boy is it just more thematically fun to play as vs the camo and the quieter outfit.
It is less so that the cloth is loud, and more that the rift skin has off again on again bugged silent audio. On release it was literally pay to win, because the cloth sound is the fair counterplay to getting snuck up on. The default Ghosty skin is supposed to have the same SFX as the classic (auric cell) skin, but I haven't tested the difference between those two in a while. There is a lack of the flapping straps in the classic skin (and rift skin) however, so to an extent the classic could be considered pay to win as well. It seems like the lean bugs are punishing strap skins even further at the moment, so I sadly can't recommend any of them over the default.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
I’m going to be straight forward, this is quite okay. They at least are compensating the increase with a cosmetic.
They could just increase the prices by a dollar or two like everything else in todays world.
If they were compensating with a cosmetic, we would get to choose which Alien cosmetic we would get, not be forced into the worst Ripley skin without even an alternative of a Xeno skin (ala Ripley themed chapter pack or Xeno themed chapter pack). We would get our choice of ANY of the release skins. There also isn't an opt-out option for just the Killer and Survivor like normal. This is extremely scummy and shady business practices.
My pet theory is Disney (the current rights owner of Fox, therefore ALIEN) is too money grubby, and negotiated too high of a revenue split. BHVR would then have to artificially bump the price (forced cosmetic inclusion that nearly no one wants) to falsely justify the forced expenditure. To be fair though, the flaw in my theory is BHVR already did this with Nic Cage, so it (in my mind) is a coin toss as to which is at fault, BHVR or Disney. Alternatively it could be both egging each other on.
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From the Survivor side it feels like Xenos are invulnerable if they have a brain. You can reaction M2 to break turrets (from the PTB, and I'm told it is more lenient on live) and not lose power, so Survivors have to place them in odd spots to confuse the Killer as to where it is. As a result, the flame doesn't burn the Xeno long enough to kick them out of power, so it buys the Survivor 5s max. On top of that, not everyone places turrets, so you lose if one teammate forgot to set one up.
I haven't played as Xeno yet (waiting for Killer incentive), but I felt it was fair in the PTB, and they tuned everything down to easy mode (for the Killer) for the release. I don't think Xeno is overpowered, but probably overtuned. Simple number tweaks down (back to PTB values) would make it much more fair to go against. When more Xenos realize that the tail can 'cleave' to hit a Survivor AND turret in a single swing, it will make turrets all the weaker with normal placements.
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The worst part is it feels like a soloq check. Did the team all split on gens and set up turrets? Win. Did 1 person forget to do that? 4 man death due to the person who forgot, will continuously will give the Xeno free hits and turn the match into a 3v1 at 5 gens. Killers that require stuff from the Survivors are all the more powerful when they get an early kill, and 80% of my soloq Xenos hard tunneled people off hook for a free win.
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The chase music was so horrendous, DO NOT BUY!
If they fixed the chase music then normal yes/no if you like new content packs.
If you like the perk(s) yep, like the Killer gameplay yep, want to main Ripley yep, but like all other packs if nothing seems good you can pass on it. If you aren't sure, watch some content creator videos with the perks/Killer and figure out if you like what you see.
Edit: They fixed the chase music, but I can't recommend it for a different reason. They upped it to a scummy price for $12 for only 1 Killer and 1 Survivor. The normal price for 1K1S is $7, and 1K2S is $12. The logic is because you get a free skin, but you don't get to pick which Alien chapter skin it is, so you don't actually get anything of value (any many other chapters have included equally weak cosmetics in the asking price). Auric cells also have a history of bugging out on purchases, so I can't recommend buying Auric Cells to simply buy the Killer and Survivor in-game either.
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@Lupo said:
Mine is "nowhere to hide", there's just something about hitting someone trying to sneakly do a gen, but i am not sure if it gives me as much value as i think it does, but still, cant play without it
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y3QI9CHPHRR2/image.png
Edit : As survivor, i cant play without Kindred, sadly my mmr is not good enough to play with ppl that wont let me die on hook ;-;
As Killer, Lethal Pursuer. I like to start strong, but Corrupt Intervention is just kind of boring (moreso for Survs) as an alternative. I also feel like I need to injure multiple Survivors before my first down when I use Corrupt. STBFL is a close second, but mostly on chase M1 Killers, but not Ghosty/Legion for example.
As Survivor We'll Make It. It feels so good to heal someone in double speed immediately after hook, and it feels better to get extra heals in the 90s timeframe. I used to like Calm Spirit a bunch, but then it got nerfed for no discernible reason to the point I can't bring myself to equip it anymore.
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The combo is only a problem when healing the instant someone gets downed. Add a 3s delay to healing (but not recovering) on entering the dying state and there would be no problems.
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@UndeddJester said:
@Shroompy I'm just curious my dude (as ofc respect thine opinion), did you see the experiment Otz and Hens ran on identifying MFT?
On average vs. Otz Pig, MFT allowed Hens to extend the chase by about an additional ~75-125% once wounded over not using MFT (we'd see around a minute extra downtime without MFT and about 1m45s/2m15s when using MFT). This was on Garden of Joy, and ofc no 2 runs were the same, so it was spawn reliant, however... it was a noticeable time jump when Hens had it.
Now ofc this isn't enough data, you'd need way more players of different skill levels, multiple sessions to account for adaption of playstyles, different characters, different maps etc to really get a good data set where you could start drawing some full conclusions...
However even in this isolated test, this time jump seems pretty disgusting to me as an ignorant layman... the fact a good survivor can use MFT to keep their resources for at least 1 extra loop each time before they have to be thrown seems insane strong to me... Other exhaustion perks give a one time save, but MFT stays in effect for every interaction, and the value just mounts up.
In fairness... Both Hens and Otz agreed with you and said the 3% wasn't really the issue, it was the uncertainty of it being in effect that's the actual problem... as Killer CAN account for it.... but I'm not sure can agree with this when a really experienced Pig player can take on average an additonal minute to down their first survivor... and if everyone runs MFT... you breaking off for someone else, that isn't gonna help... by the time you burn resources the game is over...
My concern is, MFTs speed boost will obviously affect M1 killers more... and M1 killers hate this effect, they don't want to deal with it, and everyone is bloody using it, and I guarantee they aren't using it for the pick endurance... Regardless of whether it's truly OP or not, the MFT speed boost is annoying for M1 killers, and the paranoia of it is gonna drive people away from playing M1 killers, even more than them just simply being worse than Nurse, Blight, Spirit etc already does... it really doesn't seem a healthy perk for the game.
That's my untutored idiot opinion anyway.
I tried for the life of me to find that MfT testing video but I couldn't find anything other than Hens' perspective of some of the 1v1s.
With that, here were the times for injury then down:
2:36 / 3:25 | 2:02 / 4:08 | 2:28 / 4:16 | 1:51 / 3:22 in the matches with MfT equipped.
0:50 / 1:21 | 3:11 / 3:50 in the matches with NO MfT.
Many people were pointing to the 'chase extension' timer, aka the difference between injury and down. But a lot of people decided to ignore the healthy chase, while MfT wasn't usable and not a factor, yet still adding to the time in chase without MfT.
Changing the factors to w/MfT and without, we get a different slew of numbers.
With MfT: 49s, 126s, 108s, 91s --- AVG 93.5s
Without: 156s, 122s, 148s, 111s, 50s, 31s, 191s, 39s --- AVG 106s
Now to be fair, this is a small sample size, but this is also including the stat dragging down (against no MfT) 1:21 double hit chase where no other chase even got the first hit that quickly. As a result, I would argue that because of MfT, people play more greedy, and thus make more mistakes.
All that being said I am 100% on board with removing MfT's Endurance, and adding a perk tooltip when you injure/get injured an MfT/STBFL user, or enter chase with an MfT/STBFL user. I just wouldn't go to the extreme to remove haste stacking. Funnily enough removing haste stacking would nerf M1 Killers more than the top Killers, as Clown and the like are the main beneficiaries of haste effects. Blight speed add-ons change the speed formula instead of giving haste, so he can still 'stack' haste with add-ons and 1 perk.
Edit: I'd also be fine with swapping the haste values on MfT and Dark Theory, it would be good to see Dark Theory get some use.
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@dbdthegame said:
They just want to buy an extra 24 hours of quiet before they announce MFT/Buckle Up/vault nerfs and 90% of the killer roster is playable again.
Out of all of those only the vault 'bugfix' being actually bugfixed is truly an issue. Everything else is a self-report. Most MfT users are supplementing their lack of skill, so applying any mindgame utterly destroys them faster than if they had Lithe or Sprint Burst instead. Buckle-Up complaints are essentially if you have to play with TV speakers. I have hearing damage and I have no problem tagging people with an injury before they try to FtP+Buckle-Up a slugged teammate, and don't slug them long enough to give Buckle-Up value alone.
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The only problem here is the lack of feedback. When a Killer procs an endurance effect (or Mettle of Man), it should pop up a little perk tooltip, like when Hexes are discovered as Survivor. That way you can know that was a Buckle Up/Dead Hard/basekit BT/OTR/etc. That way you can look at the perks at the end of the match and report them if they don't have them among the Survivors.
The other issue is continual content dumps without a 'game health' chapter. I want to say this is called scope creep, but I don't recall. While it is possible to know what every perk and add-on does, it is far too much for casual players to be expected to memorize. I think part of this would be giving more information in the escape screen. Here, it can list everyone's perks that you interacted with that has a guaranteed tell, although it would tell you who specifically has the perk. Arguably for Survivors it should show all allied loadouts to flatten solo vs SWF difference. If a Killer hits a Blast Mine, the escape menu updates with one of the question mark perk slots filling in with a Blast Mine. You could move the cursor over the perk mid-match to read the tooltip. That way when a newer player gets hit by a perk/add-on, they can read it on hook while waiting to be rescued, or when they think a player is cheating.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525937#Comment_3525937
Yeah, matchmaking is turned off at these times. That's the problem. Sometimes I'm getting lobbies with everyone dead at 5 gens in under 10 minutes and I could've easily won playing perkless. Or I'm getting lobbies that some P100 Blight dodged and everyone on the team can loop for days or disappear into the fog like stealth gods. But rarely do I face a fair fight. Nowhere to Hide is good against the last type of survivor, but there's little you can do if everyone can loop really well.
Thematically, Legion should have a great chase power and yet they don't. It's quite easy to counter their power if you know what to do. Spread out and avoid their terror radius in frenzy and if they do hit you, get out of the radius before you mend to deny the 5th hit. Easy. Turns the Legion into a Trapper with no traps. That said, it's true that most survivors have no clue how to play against a Legion.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525948#Comment_3525948
Oh there are plenty of builds that I'd like to try. But I don't have those killer perks unlocked yet and I'm not sure I'd want to buy certain killers just for their perks, knowing full well that I'll never use them. The best perks aren't free for most players. Hence why I think a boost to earning iri shards would help attract more players to the role. The grind for shards is unreal.
I'm still relatively new to the game. It's funny that I've put in 500+ hours and yet I'm still considered to be a beginner by many players. Crazy if you think about it. That's more hours than I've put into any other game except Tetris and Street Fighter II (2 games I've been playing for 20-30+ years).
Ruin seems strong whenever I've faced it in survivor games, though. I do have Hag with my Switch version, but my focus is on doing the rift/tome for my Steam account, so unlocking that perk will have to wait. Enduring + Iri button + Julie's Mix tape is a fun combo that I like to use a lot.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525953#Comment_3525953
This is more or less pretty much how I already play the game. I can't keep track of hooks very well, so I tend to play more organically (I find I chase, unless they just got off the hook). I average about 6-7 hooks on games that I "lose". It does feel good to get a 5th hit down or complete a tome challenge though, so I do try to focus on these goals instead of just winning.
It would be nice to win by spreading hooks but in reality you're just accepting a loss against decent survivor teams (with the obligatory teabags at the gates for playing nice). Makes you not want to play fair, if I'm honest.
So you mentioned you can't keep track of hooks very well. This is a place you can practice at and improve. Luckily Legion's power gives intel, so you can choose to roll the dice and bounce to someone else, or maintain chase the person you know isn't death hook. It also helps to focus on tome challenges to be the 'win' condition, as they mostly are in your hands (as Killer). The point is to accept the MMR 'loss', so that the game's matchmaking puts you against people you want to be against. If you make it so you 'win' when the game says you 'lose', that is much better for your enjoyment. It is a bad system that you have to fight to make work for you.
Also as for the 500 hours aspect, many games have transferable skills, and DBD basically only has the idea of controlling a video game character be transferable. M1 Killers have the framework such that each of the Killers can fall back on that shared knowledge. If Legion gets a little too boring you can hop over to Plague, Oni, Freddy, Pig, etc., and still understand how long it takes for most common loops/structures.
As for Iri shards, I think it is only a way for BHVR to pretend the game isn't Pay to Win/Pay to Progress. Sadly you need to open your wallet for Deadlock from Pinhead, Lethal Pursuer from Nemesis, and more just to participate meaningfully. It is almost similar to pen and paper RPGs, where the DM/Killer tends to have to buy everything, but the party/Survivors only have to buy what they like.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525938#Comment_3525938
So then nerfing PT was a good thing?
Coop gens isn't nearly as detrimental as you make it sound. Getting one gen done in 50 seconds can often be more beneficial than having two going for 90 seconds, particularly if the killer interrupts between the 50 and 90 second mark.
PT always has been a Killer perk imo. It only tricked foolish Survivors into grouping up and giving the Killer free pressure (or when I wanted to 'farm' my teammates for Objective BP to reach the illusive 40k Surv BP). The logic behind the PT nerf is sound, remove BP so people don't feel like they need it, but only if the core issue is addressed. The core issue (Objective BP takes too long to get) was NOT addressed, so the nerf was poorly done. If someone is starving, but you don't want them to eat junk food to alleviate their hunger, you don't prohibit them from eating McDonalds while also refusing to provide them with a fresh foods store. Give them the fresh foods store, then you can prohibit McDonalds. Put the BP back on PT until they fix the Objective BP rates, then they can remove the co-op BP from PT again. Overall though the PT nerf is a buff to Survivor in my eyes, as people wanting to rush gens will run Deja Vu instead. If we were to expand to other 'meta' picks, this would also include MfT and Resilience, yielding a 15% solo gen boost.
If the Killer interrupts the 50s duo-PT gen, they can apply Pop/Eruption, or at the very least get 2 people shoved off of gens by taking 1 action, and burned a perk slot for the Survivors. This also makes the Survivors have at most 2 on gens, and free intel on the rough location of the 3rd. If instead the Killer interrupts the 90s solo gen, there are no burned perks, there can be at most 3 Survs on gens, and no intel on any of the Survs other than the one in chase.
The only time it isn't detrimental is when the Killer is actively defending a 3-gen, and it breaks up their strategy. Arguably it is better to have 1 person harassing the 3-gen from the onset, but playing safe enough to not give free hits. The remaining Survs pump the 4 other gens, then the team starts to push duos on the 2 edges of the 3-gen. Forcing an early break will cause mistakes and hooks to pile up before even cracking the 3-gen, and potentially allowing a cross-map 3-gen to still exist.
The other issue is BP has caps per category. Even if I were to duo 2 gens with base BP and coop BP doubled, that doesn't get me any more than the 10k. This frequently happens with Brutality and Deviousness on different Killers. Survivors aren't going to stop pumping gens just because they reached the Objective cap, just as Killers aren't going to stop hitting Survivors when they reach the Brutality/Devious cap.
As a caveat, I could understand the argument against doubling both if we were to also uncap categories. That would allow overflow BP from other categories to reach an overarching 40k match cap.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525973#Comment_3525973
Survivors need to get out of the mindset that pallet that I can't loop=useless pallet. Unsafe pallets are the pallets that killers will want to respect the MOST (because the only value you can get out of them is to stun with them), meaning you can afford to greed them over and over again and just loop tightly. I've lost count of how many 1+ min chases I've had in RPD on the West wing stair pallet because a killer kept respecting it over and over again.
I mean I understand needing mechanics for new players, but the tent pallet is barely a tier above the Temple of Purgation pallets, or the RPD 1st floor west side save room pallet (which I think is the pallet you are talking about). The difference is that RPD pallet is worthless against a Killer of any skill level, and only useful against Killers without skill/act like a bot. A pallet that unsafe is on the Killer to screw up, not the Survivor to outplay. I can understand if theoretically you want a counter to the God pallets, like this to be a "Science" pallet, which requires 10000 IQ to utilize as Survivor, but I think there is more than enough varied skill expression in actual normal pallets. Also the location of these worthless pallets are also key. The Temple and RPD pallet are in fixed locations. The tent pallet can REPLACE a real filler pallet. If the tent pallet were the equivalent of the rock loops at the edge map of Autohaven, I wouldn't have an issue with them. The problem is they can be in the middle of the map.
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I think the worse offender (on all farm maps) is the filler pallet with the tent and 2 crates. That doesn't protect against ANY killer, and a powerless 4.4 Killer could even get a hit at those without Bloodlust. But that contributes to the pallet count of the map, so it prevents a real pallet from spawning. I'd say it would even be too generous to say they are good as zombie killers against Nemesis.
If they are going to have this few pallets, they need multiple different medium strength windows to compensate. Weaker than Shack and Garden of Joy's main building, but much stronger than the Z and U walls found on the edge of maps.
Alternatively, I believe it has 3 fixed tiles (randomized by map gen), 1 is cowtree, 2 are harvesters. If they changed it to make the weak side a cowtree, and the strong side with a harvester and cowtree, (RNG determines which of the 2 spots are the harvester) then that could also help fix the map.
The easiest solution would be reverting the changes to this map specifically, but I do like the meat locker being opened up on both ends.
Cowshed also feels like it needs to be fixed, but I'm fine with it being an overtly Killer sided map after years of it being the opposite, kind of a karmic retribution. Rancid doesn't deserve this back-alley treatment though.
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It is easily reproducible in normal gameplay with max arc Yellow bottles used for map traversal, but also more visible with the bottle cooldown add-ons.
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Like edgar, I too find matches to be easier with the incentive (although I would expand that to both sides).
The best thing I can recommend is intentionally going for 2 hooks each Survivor before killing anyone. Shift your mental win condition to a hook count that feels good (or maybe each Survivor hooked at least once), and then you will 'win' matches while often 'losing' matches MMR-wise. Even if you win at 9 hooks, you have 1k and 3 escapes, so MMR will work in your favor. Eventually you will go against weaker and weaker Survivors to the point you will be able to consistently 12 hook win (or 11 hook+hatch), so then you will have passively built up enough skill to 'win' according to your rules, and 'win' according to MMR. If they teabag at exit gates, you know you could have intentionally tunneled someone out, so it is like the Baby Feng thinking they looped you for days but in reality went down in 5s. Its more embarrassing on their part.
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@jesterkind said:
We know from the Reddit AMA a little while back that Trapper has some small changes coming alongside the Naughty Bear skin, albeit nothing huge as they don't want to make big fundamental changes to his kit. There's a lot of things this could be, but there's two that I'm especially crossing my fingers for:
- Adjusting the trap spawn logic. Nothing too crazy, but it'd be really nice if Trapper's traps spawned either closer towards him, or in locations that are more likely to be actually useful (EG, in loops and at windows already) so they can just be armed instead of picked up and carried somewhere else. A little bit to help him with his early game without really changing him drastically.
- Widening trap hitboxes. The amount of times I mess up placing a trap by what feels like a few pixels and survivors can just walk around it in otherwise really tight loops is maddening, and I'd love if that could be changed. It wouldn't harm newer players too much since they already step in traps without even noticing them, so this'd just help those of us who've been around a bit longer and want to at least lock down a singular loop ahead of time without worrying about pixel-perfect placements.
Beyond that, I think any other changes would probably be outside the scope of a small killer update, so those are what I'm really hoping for. What about you guys?
I'd like to add on to the trap spawn locations (at loop), and have them also start opened. It would help shave off a bunch of time for trapper, and could provide intel (disarming traps), and minor slowdown (both looking out for traps and disarming them at loops, or stepping into them and struggling free as well as needing to heal afterwards), without having a side effect of empowering the more effective basement camping Trapper.
I'd like trap hitboxes to be 'normalized' (which is slightly different than just increasing the size), and by that I mean if the Survivor can fit slipping by, the Killer can fit slipping by. It sucks to place a trap and seeing the Survivor to run past, but then when you do the same, you end up stepping in it. I don't know if they have separate trap hitbox sizes by role, but it would be a good QoL change. This might be fixed by just amping up the size large enough for most common locations (like pallets), but there still would be times where the Survivor can slip by when the Killer can't.
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Use Blast Mine, and just flashlight blind during the pallet break animation. Is it annoying, sure, but it isn't difficult. The only bad thing is Killers seems to take personal offense to the tomes BHVR makes. You need 3 sabos within 10m of the Killer?, "you must be a sabo sweat squad so I'm gunna bleed you guys out instead of hook you".
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@Seraphor said:
Couple of takes to add here:
1: Yes, survivor is much more difficult to gain BP in general. A killer will get at least 20k even if they lose, while a survivor can be tunneled out and walk away with about 2k.
This is largely out of the survivors control. If you do get found first and the killer tunnels you, yes, you can still play to the best of your ability and run the killer for as long as reasonably possible, stay on the hook for the full duration, but you won't have any opportunity to earn Objective or Altruism points.
This should be bolstered by additional 'Distraction' points earned for occupying the killers attention while your team mates smash out gens, and provide you with a fraction of the points for those gens getting repaired in the Objectives category.
However...
2: If you understand how score events work, you can optimise your score and still make up quite a bit of Objectives.
Yes you technically get 'only' 1250 for completing a gen. However coop points essentially grant you double bonus points. A full gen would give you 2500 coop points. So you can still coop a gen and score 3750 in 60 seconds, instead of spending 90 on your own to get just 1250.
Prove Thyself doubled coop points, so really PT was by far overcompensating, as it would award you 6250 for a single coop gen. When you should be completing 2.5 gens each on average to repair your fair share of the generators, this would have overcapped the 10k limit for Objectives at around 1.6 gens.
Without the bonus from PT, 2.5 coop gens will still get you to the 10k cap. Which means you still have a huge incentive to coop on gens for BP, and that means PT is still a valuable perk to bring if you want to max Objectives.
They could double base BP for gens, so that you get 2500 ad 5000 for a coop gen. That could be a fair buff to Objectives BP. This would still require you to complete 2 gens to max out, which isn't unreasonable. but double base BP AND double coop BP, that would give you 7500 for ONE single gen repair. That's more than before with the use of a perk, and way more than any other category for either role. That would be like killer maxing out Sacrifice for scoring about three hooks. If survivors only needed to do one single coop gen each, then that's only 2 gens max per game getting done while everyone runs about trying to score chase points expecting the other survivors to pick up the slack on gens. That's not healthy.
The problem with grouping on gens, is it already is heavily Killer-sided. If you are going against a casual/weaker Killer, that isn't a problem, but if you are going against a sweating Killer, you are better off splitting on gens except to break up a 3-gen.
Grouping up on gens gives 15% gen slowdown (That's half a Pentimento, and 3/4s of a maxxed out Thana). If the Killer interrupts the gen, 2 people are now disrupted instead of only 1. Double gen BP isn't nearly enough of a reward to give that much of an advantage to your opponent. Also, even if you duo a gen, the other 2 Survs likely will solo gens, or the normal gameplay (Surv A on Hook, Surv B in chase, Surv C going for rescue+heal, Surv D on gens) will force people to mostly solo gens anyways.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525574#Comment_3525574
The problem with your suggestion is that BHVR would constantly need to change killer add-ons to counter whatever the survivor META is at the time, while not doing anything at all to help survivors. Not exactly balanced, impartial, or fair.
Blindness and Exhaustion are universal conditions that can each help against plenty of perks and items (blindness against maps/keys moreso), and I would argue more Killers should also have Oblivious add-ons as well. They don't need micro-management for the bizzaro world when Poised becomes META, just tools in their kit for the most common conditions/'offenders'. Killers with skill already don't care about blinding/exhausting Survivors, so this is just a backup for weaker players.
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@Zaydin said:
MMR is a non-functional joke that only exists so BHVR can say it exists.
To be fair I think it exists because BHVR considers the 'top-MMR' players all sweats, and the bottom 75% are the main whales for cosmetics. This keeps 'top-MMR' gamers quarantined in their own sweat realm with each other, and their biggest payers together with one another.
@tdawg01 said:
I can’t even play some of my favorite killers, even after waiting for the season reset and losing to swf countless times the only way I can play killer is through just a few of the killers. I’m at a loss and contemplating uninstalling as the fun goes down everytime i play a swf 4 man p100 group. I know I’m not the best killer but definitely confused as to how this matchmaking works when I will buy a new killer occasionally and instantly regret it due to all the high mmr squads I have to play against.
As far as the main issue here, I'd recommend intentionally going for 12 hooks every game, with 0 kills until the 9th hook action. Shift the win condition in your head to whatever hook count feels good, and go about doing this. The goal is to 'lose' according to MMR, but 'win' according to your own code. This way MMR will drop while still 'winning' matches and enjoying the game. If they teabag at exit gates, you know you could have not gone easy on them, so you can compartmentalize the 'loss'. Eventually, you will gain enough skill that you will 'win' MMR-wise, as well as 'win' personal code-wise.
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I agree that the base gen BP should be doubled to give 2500 when soloing a gen 0-100% with no skillchecks. It might even be worth doubling co-op gen BP as well. People were running PT because the double gen BP, but they removed the BP boost, while not adjusting the base value AT ALL to properly compensate. They should revert the BP bonus back onto PT until they actually fix Objective BP values.
On a similar note I find it silly that Booning a totem can give a repeatable 1500 BP, but cleansing a totem gives a max 1k BP per totem (1.5k if a hex). If anything the values should be swapped, 1k to boon, 1.5k to cleanse, with a doubled value if it was a hex.
I used to bring the following build for BP as Survivor: Deliverance for Survival, We'll Make It to incentivize unhooks and healing for Altruism, Prove Thyself to co-op the gen with the person I rescued for Objective, and a Boon to cap off Boldness if the Killer didn't chase me enough. Sadly Objective is still all too difficult to cap now without PT. Its a joke you don't have to go out of your way to get all BP categories as Killer, but Survivor gets less than half even when actively attempting to cap them. The best solution I can think of is to uncap categories (maybe with diminishing returns of half BP after the first 10k), and cap the earned BP at 40k (before boosts).
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Just as people bring Enduring+Spirit Fury, you too can bring STBFL+Rapid Brutality. I'd argue Spirit Fury is nearly as worthless as RB when both are taken alone outside of niche cases. I'd say it could also be useful on M1 Killers who don't build Bloodlust like Clown, but if it would be worth dropping another perk for is another story. There also is the case for it to be another choice in an Agitation/Mad Grit combo.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Exhaustion Add Ons should not be a thing anymore. Yes, they got nerfed (rightfully so since they were heavily outdated), but they should not exist at all. Yet BHVR gives Killers Exhaustion Add Ons (Singularity has one for example).
The worst offender is the one from Pig. Yes, it is not her best Add On, but it just promotes tunneling. Which should never be the playstyle of her but can help with that.
I disagree that Exhaustion add-ons shouldn't exist, but I do agree that Pig's just incentivizes tunneling. I am not opposed to more M1 Killers having a Blindness and Exhaustion add-on to help stifle complaints of Windows and [insert Flavor of the Month Exhaustion perk here], while not helping Killers who don't need it like Blight/Nurse/Spirit. I'd argue Huntress' is probably the best designed of the current lot. Ghosties are a bit odd, but decently designed (If you get the drop on them, you get 5s and Exposed, if they get the drop on you, you get 10s instead).
Some exhaustion effects that could be fairly easily implemented are probably Legion, (5-10s on 2nd and further chain hits, like the item drop add-on) Myers, (when fully stalked, is permanently exhausted) Freddy, (5s on power affecting a sleeping Surv) Clown, (2-5s on Purple Gas) and Doctor (while at T3, like I believe the old Iri King did).
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524892#Comment_3524892
Not sure if thats intended. I´m not a blight main, but whenever i played blight, i accidentally drifted, when i wanted to bump. No tech involved.
Thats no reason to suicide on the first hook at 5 gens. She had full 2 minutes on that hook. More than enough time to come even from the furthest spot on the map.
Cant say, as i just saw the compilation. But i see quite the amount of survivors dc/suicide in my matches. Doesn´t matter what role i play. Can´t say stats, but its way higher than 5%
Not knowing what you can bounce off of and can't is normal gameplay of learning Blight. Knowing you are supposed to bounce and intentionally sliding instead is the bug they are abusing. It was a bug that was introduced when they changed Blight's camera from crotch height to normal height (there are multiple checks, 1 is tied to the Killer POV camera). Technically they could fix the bug overnight by putting his camera back to crotch height, but I can understand not doing that.
Myers: No offense, but last time you said you were crossmap chasing someone else, which would take ~20s to reach, not including kicking pallets/gens near the hook. She couldn't have 60s on the timer AND you be crossmap. Again, that also doesn't change the potential for the other 2 Survs to be worse than a bot and refuse to unhook. For all you know they were tbagging at her hook and that's why she did it.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524524#Comment_3524524
EU here. I seeing quite some people from asia. They still have decent ping though. With a few exceptions.
Bug abuse. I still don´t know what you are refering too.
Hated killer: had a daily to get tier 3 evil within 4 times as Myers. Got to tier 3, downed a Meg that was feeding me and she instantly suicided while i was at the other end of the map, chasing Ace. Who also suicided instantly, while i was busy chasing Mikaela. I have literally no idea why they would suicide. I didn´t tunnel, i didn´t camp, i didn´t do anythig scummy. Makes no sense to me.
Again, lucky you. I see this far to often. Earlier a saw a clip from Otz, where 3 survivors disconnected at 5 gens before he even found the first survivor.
Bug Abuse: Blight mains call the bug exploit of facesliding to intentionally not bump when they are supposed to bump, "Hugtech". I call it the simple rhyming play on words "Bugtech", to make it clear that they are abusing a bug. That, to my knowledge, is the most common bug that can be visible in 30s of a match.
Daily Myers match: It sounds like to me, the Meg saw her team not gearing up for the rescue like my comical assertion that "the other 2 teammates are pressing 2 in the corner with each other having never touched gens", and saw only Ace actually playing the game. Ace's Kobes make sense given it is essentially a 3v1 at 5 gens. Again, not changing the outcome of the match, just fasttracking to the conclusion.
Otz clip: How many matches of that stream didn't have a DC/Kobe when it didn't affect the outcome? That's what I mean by negativity bias, and how we all need to be aware of it to ensure we don't see 1 thing and conclude that for all matches.