mizark3
mizark3
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@Reinami said:
Because if you are flashlight saving, you aren't being tunneled.
I think it should be tied to unshouldering a Survivor from a Killer by any means (to include pallets, Head-on, and other things I'm not thinking of off the top of my head). That way blinding a Killer in a tunneling chase isn't nerfed as a side effect (or stunning a tunneling Killer with the expanded pallet/Head-on/other list).
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690182#Comment_3690182
That's a fair point. I'd prefer just no collision on the unhooked to prevent all this.
No collision while you haven't done a CA off hook also helps a Killer when the Survivor fakes touching a gen. You can simply 'shoulder check' them, and if you phase through, you can hit and leave, or commit knowing it might hit anti-tunnel effects.
Protection hits are just coded too strangely to use the score event. Your health doesn't matter, just your distance to an injured Survivor. That means a Huntress spamming hatchets would easily disable anti-tunnel, getting hit out of basement, your rescuer taking the only pallet/window near hook, etc., if they used the Protection score event. -
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689967#Comment_3689967
Why is this such a herculean task to chase the remaining 75% of the lobby?
because I remember old DS, where survivors loved to body block the killer, then jumped into locker. I am going to punish that.
If they forced DS, I know they are without a protection, so why wouldn't I tunnel them at that point?
The problem is everyone remembers DS without CA's. That is what made it unfair. There was a shorter stint where DS had CA's, and was 5s, and that was fair.
1.2.1 to just before 2.6 (Oct 2016 → Mar 2019) was the janky DS the Killer after any pickup.
Then 2.6 to before 2.6.3 (Mar 2019 → Apr 2019) started to work as we know it now, with 3s Stun.
Then 2.6.3 to before 3.0 (Apr 2019 → Jun 2019) lasted 5s with Enduring reducing the stun timer.
Then 3.0 to before 4.6 (Jun 2019 → Mar 2021) lasted 5s, with no CAs.
Then 4.6 to before 6.1 (Mar 2021 → Jul 2022) had CA's with Blessing added in 5.4 (Nov 2021).
Then 6.1 to before 7.7 (Jul 2022 → Apr? 2024) had CA's with no endgame usage & disabled in endgame.
In that timespan, we had ~2.5 years of jank 5s DS, ~2.25 years of (effective) 3s DS (~0.5 without CA's ~1.75 with and no endgame), ~1.75 years of 5s without CAs and worked in endgame, ~1.25 years of 5s with CAs. So the fair version we had lasted for less than 1/6th of the total time its been in the game. (Personally I think it working in endgame is also fine, but I understand they wanted a 'no such thing as tunneling in endgame' [imo mostly for Kobes].)
Essentially you are remembering 5/6ths of historic DS that doesn't apply to the new version.
As far as burning a perk because they meme at a locker instead of being useful, that is perfectly fine. They decided to misuse a limited resource and get burned for it. Dropping Shack pallet to try to get Legion out of power when they just activated it is equally foolish, and punished similarly overall. -
@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690002#Comment_3690002
You know too little.
a blight player have 95% chance end the game (3k 4k) before survivor fix all 5 gen.
you still think no one be able to win like this?
Can they? Yes. Should they (be able to)? no. That was my point.
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Technically, if it uses the MMR system like ELO comparisons, you lose or gain based on the difference between the compared players' numbers.
That means if a theoretical minimum of +/-5 adjustment, and maximum of +/- 20 adjustment can exist, there is a scenario where you can lose more than gain with a 3k. This is super specific though, as you would need to beat 3 relative babies, with a 4th baby escaping through the gates.
If they were at say 800/800/800/800 and you were at 2000, then your kills would be worth 5 (theoretical) MMR each, and their escapes 20 (theoretical) MMR each. So a +5/+5/+5/-20 would leave you at net -5. This can also be reversed, with a baby 800MMR Killer (say Bubba) facecamping a pro 2000MMR Survivor in endgame with a (theoretical) +20/-5/-5/-5 for a net +5.
We don't know the minimum MMR adjustment, but allegedly the max is 20. We also don't know how they weight differences in MMR (Does 800 vs 1200 count as 5/10/15 for the higher number winning, or 20/15/10 for the lower number winning?
We do know that Hatch counts as a draw, or both sides get 0 for their adjustment value. -
@BlueMoonBRUHMOMENT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687421#Comment_3687421
"so we're even now" is such a bad way of looking at the game.
People used a defensive perk offensively, it was nerfed for a good reason.
The CA change prevented offensive use. The 5→3s change didn't. The CA change was good. The 5→3s change was a mistake that took nearly 2 years to correct.
@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689664#Comment_3689664
slugging an UB survivors makes no pressure at all, 2 survivors doing gens are more than enough after the first unhook
So everyone in soloq knows every other Survivor's perks now? I wish that were the case. Coordinated SWFs don't even bother with DS because they can shift pressure more effectively, and bring it to only counter with streamsniping known tunnelers.
@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689642#Comment_3689642
Do you play killer?
can you 3k 4k continuous 50 rounds?
What a bizarre question. No one should be able to win that consistently in a functional MMR system without abusing something broken (glitches/exploits/cheats/poorly designed mechanics). Winning that often reveals a flaw more than personal prowess. Even if that flaw is "I plan on sweating against people who don't".
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For revealing I would prefer to move it to server sided verification, instead of client. Laggy Survivors can reveal you through walls, but normal latency Survivors give you time to hide behind something really quick. If this was server sided, then it could reject those laggy 'cheaty' reveals.
For a general buff though, I would argue revealing Ghosty hinders Survivors by 10% for the Killer Instinct duration (so it also buffs the useless add-ons). The point of 10% is to slow them down, but not enough to prevent fast vaults (like Clown's 15%). It also targets stronger players more than weaker players, as the weaker player isn't likely to be able to reveal in chase. Also you can't reveal when Marked, so this won't Hinder+Expose (except on frame perfect laggy reveals).
As far as general add-on buffs, they should add more rewards for Marked downs (and hooks). They could give Gift of Pain on unhook (after a Marked down), Brutal Strength after hook (from a Marked down), Infectious Fright (after Marked down), or any other perk that can work on the Marked down or subsequent hook/unhook. -
@Mysore said:
- increasing the duration to 5 seconds will still make no difference against a nurse and a blight. We are being tunneled in every match, the decisive attack urgently needs to be buffed more. The incapacitated effect has to be added for a few seconds at the discretion of the behavior to have a chance of gaining distance from a tunneling nurse, blight and hillbilly. This effect won't make any difference to weaker killers, but against tier S it will. And since we can only use it once, the duration should be the same as the OTR.
As I've recommended in other threads, I think it should be 5s per gen remaining. That way at 1 gen it lasts 5s, and 5 gens it lasts 25s.
@VomitMommy said:
This effect won't make any difference to weaker killers
110% killers will love to be without power for 10 seconds for sure…
If they do it, it will be simply more of a reason for me to tunnel that person just out of spite.
Then don't tunnel and pickup the Survivor that rescued or the other two instead? Why is this such a herculean task to chase the remaining 75% of the lobby? Or at the very least bait out a CA from the Survivor before tunneling them.
@anarchy753 said:
Decisive Strike, or any other perk, should not be the band aid to fix problems that affect the whole game. Tunneling being so pervasive needs to be addressed, and that isn't done just by saying "now everyone needs to bring the same perk to fix the problem."
This is the actual issue. There needs to be a basekit solution, that doesn't require 4 people all bringing the same perk. I've recommended full on invisibility (for the same 10s of basekit BT, ended short on CA) in the past (like Spirit when phasing can't see Survivors), but I would have it include all visual and audio clues. (Grunts of pain/Scratch Marks/Pools of Blood/Vomiting when infected/etc.) I would also disable Distortion/Iron Will/other 'hiding' perks when you have less hooks than any other Survivor. That way Killer can find people that aren't a 'tunnel target'.
- increasing the duration to 5 seconds will still make no difference against a nurse and a blight. We are being tunneled in every match, the decisive attack urgently needs to be buffed more. The incapacitated effect has to be added for a few seconds at the discretion of the behavior to have a chance of gaining distance from a tunneling nurse, blight and hillbilly. This effect won't make any difference to weaker killers, but against tier S it will. And since we can only use it once, the duration should be the same as the OTR.
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The problem with any teamwork required Killer mechanic, is everyone needs to know exactly how to do it. Even if 75% of players do it right, then you will (almost) always have 1 Survivor not set turrets correctly, and the Killer will win for free because of it. As an individual, you can easily say "just set turrets correctly", but the problem is, 3 Survivors did. It was the one goofball that caused their team to lose.
This can also be seen to a lesser extent with people rushing the box against Pinhead and showing him where it is, or even worse, picking it up while giving a free hit. -
@Riski said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689000#Comment_3689000
Although I wouldn't mind a plague adjustment this is sounding a bit like singularity, even ignoring infection you also run into the issue where altruism isn't possible with corrupt purge either due to its very short cooldown, range and piercing properties. I personally like plague and I don't entirely disagree with your opinion but I'm not sold on the end product here.
I like your Myer's changes as a start but more would be needed, make tire 1 less of a hiderence and tier 3 more rewarding is mystance and making tier 1 start in 110% with normal lunge sounds like a good idea.
What I mean by delete altruism is the entire healing aspect. Singularity doesn't prevent healing if you have a biopod on you, but Plague does prevent healing when infected (since technically you can heal if injured and partially infected, but it heals you when cleansed, so there is no point). Since there is no mechanic to still utilize healing against her. I tried to add additional methods that use the healing modifier, so that way your build isn't dumpstered from a Killer pick alone. I just seem to have the worst luck whenever I get a healing tome and run into some Plague main 3 matches in a row. Another possible alternative is to have max infection Plague make you Exposed instead of Broken and Injured, and you only puke while injured. That way it sill allows for healing (and still provide some value), but also allows for 1 hit downing fully infected Survs.
Also some Plagues play that gen defense 3-gen playstyle, but they don't stall the game as much as the worst offenders do. I wanted to address that negative style of play the kept floating under the radar for too long. Plague is made aware whenever a pool is utilized, so there is a reasonable back and forth for both sides.
As far as Myers, I think people sleep on him tbh. The strength of a 16m TR with an exposed on demand is super powerful, but people spend too much time going for big T3s with multiple downs and don't take advantage of the stealth his kit affords. The other problem is Macmillan and Autohaven are impossibly bad maps for stealth Killers. Sweatlords love to map offer those maps, so you get a 'fair' map (when it actually is a significant disadvantage since you are a stealth Killer), and those people trying their hardest. The biggest issue is taking advantage of people not healing, such as by using Thana, or Monitor and Abuse with an 8m TR. If the map isn't designed for stealth and you brought Monitor, you lose. But Thana still gives you a chance (at the cost of being a bit more boring for both sides).
People also sleep on the raw strength of T3's window vaulting+lunge, and to a lesser extent T2's vaulting. T2 gives Bamboozle speed basekit (roughly), and T3 gives Superior Anatomy speed basekit (roughly). Also the extra Lunge distance is minor, but vaulting a window, you save ~.29m (of catch up, ~.69m of raw distance) on the lunge, and ~.26m (of catch up, ~2m of raw distance) from the vault, so that gives you (roughly) an extra half meter in-chase. The higher skill the matchup, the more these tiny numbers add up and surprise Survivors who otherwise would make the right micro decisions. For reference, some people say 100ms or Resilience makes the difference in their chases. Well moving at 4m/s, 100ms puts you .4m behind on the server, and Resilience shaves ~.04s or ~.08s of vault time, or .16/.32m, for a combined ~.56m/~0.72m. Those numbers are right there in the same ballpark. A Myers Lunge+Vault is (roughly) equal to Survivor on 100ms and forgoing Resilience on a fast vault. (I used raw distance for Survivor, because M1 hits are based on the Killer sending to server, and you usually hit people as Myers when the Surv would think they make the window/pallet vault. -
@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689019#Comment_3689019
Then it's 2.5 years instead of 3.5. Still more time than most people probably played the game nowadays.
Why should I be so negative and report every Blight I come across using this? There are people far worse than that who are actually worth the time. And as the Devs never posted it in the game itself, so I also guess a lot of people don't even know it's a bug (believe it or not, but there is only a small part of the community here in the forums). Before the era of the killswitched, they would post a warning in chat that abusing bug xxx was now officially bannable, which meant you could report everyone abusing it (it was a bug with legion's addons). I only report hackers and those who abused severe stuff like the locker/FL bug. I like to go against hug-tech. It's not that difficult to outplay if you know what you are doing. So again: why should I report people who brings me joy to the game? Theoretically you can also report every farming killer for "refusing to play normal". Do you also report those? If the answer is yes, then you are a very sorry soul.
Also afaik the Devs NEVER said anything about Wesker's hug-tech being a bug (also that already existed on the PTB. I did skinny Bert there by accident, which means hug-tech was also there but people didn't know it yet), so stop reporting people for that. They just enjoy the complexity of their gameplay.
And if that's not enough, we should all get together and ask the Devs to say us which techs are a bug and which aren't. So people can shut up about it for the rest of eternity.
The issue was you asked if others reported Killers for cheating/breaking the rules, to which the reply was yes.
As for personally, you should report everyone (that breaks the rules) that you care to, it takes time and effort. You can have your own 'honor code' that determines if you let something slide or not, but that doesn't mean the rules change according to that 'honor code'. As far as the farming Killer, the closest rule breaking equivalent is "Working with the opposite team to gain an advantage or grief teammates", so there has to be an advantage gained (edit see * below), or a grief act done. That means you are most certainly allowed to report a farming Killer (and their compatriots) if they bleed you out while t-bagging your corpse for refusing to farm with them, as that would be griefing. I do report griefers, I don't report farmers unless they cross that griefing(/or hold the game hostage) line.
It is a little absurd to think the PTB means bugs don't exist, but I can see where your head is at now. "Only a bug if stated exactly as such in-game" more or less. Since Bugtech didn't have an in-game announcement, it was fair. The locker bug had an in-game announcement, so it wasn't (again, according to my understanding of your understanding). I will continue to report cheaters and bug exploiters as long as they fit my standards of proof for a report. I change my in-game win condition to 'detective-mode', and enough evidence for a (edit: report or) ban is my new wincon from Kill/Escape/Tome/Daily/Whatever I felt like when I queued up.
Personally I don't think lobbying for a bug list is a good idea, because it would encourage greater bug abuse for things they want to keep on the down-low and can't fix in the immediate future. Some coding issues are very hard to fix, and if it becomes a more regular occurrence, then it forces a more immediate fix. If we got a "Game Health" chapter (for bugs and major gameplay problems) once a year, I would love that. But because I am somewhat aware (or at least more than the average forum member,) of the priority queues the devs have to deal with, I don't find an active bug list to be net positive due to the potential for abuse reason. (To be a little more clear, simple number tweaks like on perks should be done easily and often, fixing significant coding issues or full perk/power redesigns would need a larger investment.)
edit * Advantage gained can be quite nebulous. One could claim a Survivor dropping a pallet creating a deadzone is 'working with Killer for an advantage' as they didn't die, and sabotaged their team. Alternatively meta rewards like 'they gave me BP', or 'by not killing them and giving hatch/gate, I didn't raise my MMR'. I think these are too much of a stretch to use meta arguments. Also someone bodyblocking a door frame might be afraid and confused, and not doing it to ingratiate themselves with the Killer. That is why I continued with only the obvious griefing aspect. -
@NerfDHalready said:
but before that please prevent its abuse and that's mostly through bodyblocking. either
- make bodyblocking for somebody else interfere with the perk
- remove bt bodyblocking altogether
- make locker pulls not trigger ds
with current ds or even without the perk, i'm already so tired and disgusted of bt bodyblock nonsense and i'm not built to endure that bs with buffed ds. thank you.
Just remove collision post-hook until a CA. EZPZ. Also You can't really bodyblock for someone while slugged on the floor. Locker grabs still need the Killer to intentionally tunnel to occur in the majority of circumstances, so the Killer should still get the effects of anti-tunnel discouragements.
@caligraph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686993#Comment_3686993
OTR's in a way better spot
Garsh darn I love getting hit off hook and denied my anti-tunnel perk. /s
And that's the perk in a 'good' spot.@Emeal said:
I still think DS should disable Killer powers for 10 seconds, even if it stuns for 5 seconds.
The reason being that ranged and fast Killers can still close that 3 second cap, Otz proved that in a video.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686993#Comment_3686993
DS is in a greater spot than most perks.
I agree with the concept of disabling power, but I think it should be 5s per gen remaining. That way it heavily punishes tunneling at 5 gens, and doesn't hurt as much at 1 gen remaining. People in general agree (even if I don't agree with this specific common sentiment) that the later in the game, the more 'acceptable' tunneling becomes. This would hurt more when it 'should', and hurt less when it 'shouldn't'.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688522#Comment_3688522
So did you report every Blight who did a Hug-tech?
Why didn't Blight get killswitched ever if it is such a problem?
Did you report every bug exploiter?
When I had video evidence of bug exploits being done intentionally to victimize another, or admitted to it in endgame chat (including Oni flicks/Wesker wall dashes, and window-vault stagger skips and other bugs)? Yes. If they only did it once, I don't have evidence of them intentionally abusing the bug, but a self-report or multiple actions caught recorded would get a swift report. I've used this same self-report method against full-blown cheaters when they thought they were being tricky. (Skybilly is an example of a self-victimization as the result of a bug exploit, so I don't report someone victimizing themself. It still is illegal, but I feel the victim should always choose whether or not to 'press charges' so to speak.)
They've always been bannable, but some bugs you can't prove intent without multiple abuses, or a self-report.
Why didn't one of the most popular characters with some of the most skins get killswitched for a difficult to fix bug?
I'm gunna assume $$$ to be demoralizing/realistic. As far as 'such a problem', there are 30+ Killers, probably less than 10% of people intentionally abused the bug, so it impacted roughly 1% of matches in some of the highest estimates. Less than 1% impact is a low priority bug in the scheme of things.
One thing to note about bug-tech is that it did not exist since launch. Blight had functional collision when he had the crotch height camera. Moving the camera up to a normal Killer height broke his collision, and the jury-rigged patchjob of the follow-up bump verification is what causing bug-tech to exist. -
Nerf: Any/All of the top 5, but lets just use Nurse as a placeholder.
Buff: Any/All of the bottom 5, but lets just use Myers as a placeholder. A couple Myers buffs could be starting the match in T2 (with an add-on to start in T1), T1 being buffed to 110 from 105 and/or middle lunge between current T1 and normal M1 Killers, or both of the previous ideas.
Rework: Plague - She currently deletes Altruism. Killer mechanics should add to the base, not subtract. Re-enable Altruism, even if you have to take the infection for others or always take double time. Also to help prevent boring gen defense playstyles, allow for pre-cleansing while uninfected (that still unlocks the red pool for Plague) to gain a limited item that can cleanse/cure everything and everyone within 4-8m when used (takes 4-8s adjusted by altruistic heal speeds), and prevents object (not person) re-infection for 30s.
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I mean if you get paired up with someone far worse than you as Killer, you probably don't need to tunnel anyways. I would still consider that 'win' as artificial, as that match shouldn't have happened in the first place (and shouldn't have shifted MMR).
As far as the Dredge and Knight games, to be fair that was a small sample size, and these things iron out over larger numbers. Also you didn't artificially inflate your MMR, but the game did because of the shared minimum MMR system. I think that system is dumb, as it punishes 1-tricks too harshly when they try to expand. Even newer Killers should be expected to play 1 Killer until they truly understand them, and this punishes them too. It punishes everyone other than people who were already variety Killers before MMR was implemented.
The soft cap preventing dropping below is part of the problem, as a player will have a steady increase of pool depth, and then suddenly thrown into the ocean off of a boat. I 100% agree MMR is garbage if you reach the extremes (mains/SWF too easy. newer/learning/soloq too hard). I would love to go back to rank based matchmaking, as I could play the way I want (8 hooks no kills) and not be stuck with baby Survs as a result. I feel obligated to kill Survivors, instead of having fun the way I want to.
I don't think the DS buff back to 5s will harm gameplay unless they also decide to allow it to proc infinitely during the 60s timer(s). They went back on PR/Pop nerfs from 6.1 because they recognized they were the wrong decision, and now I just hope they continue this trend after DS with Thana and Self-Care as well.
Feel free to last word reply to the off-topic parts, but if you want to continue those conversations then create a new thread and @ me. -
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688640#Comment_3688640
"A skilled killer will 8 hook before a single kill" thats called handicapping yourself if you want to win because any decent survivors WILL capitalize on that and be out in 5 when its not some S tier killer. And never have I EVER seen a game where playing efficiently is seen as "not skilled" in some way. Also it's undesirable for SURVIVORS which you know is an ENEMY team so of course its undesirable. The best way to help deter tunneling is NOT taking away incentives to not tunnel like BBQ stacks and not more base kit perks.
Yes. Handicap yourself so that your opposition is on equal footing with you, when you let them, aka when not tunneling. Its like weight training, you train against a certain resistance, and if you win, the game increases your MMR aka your weights accordingly. If you lose, it takes off weights (aka lowers MMR). Eventually you will reach an equilibrium of your true 'no tunnel MMR' and only win more when you improve yourself, aka gain skill. Assert your dominance, strive for perfection, and don't accept mediocrity in yourself. The only one holding you back is yourself. Be the best you, you can be. If you need to, keep the idea "I could have just tunneled and won" in the back of your mind to soften losses, but seek improvement over all.
I do agree nerfing BBQ was a horrible step, but I think most of the 6.1 perk nerfs were poor choices (and many of the buffs cough genkick cough). -
@Brimp said:
Yeah but it going back to 5 seconds does NOTHING but hurt the rest of the roster. Nurse, blight, spirit and sometimes wesker will still instantly catch back up to you while the rest of the weaker roster suffers because of it. The 3 seconds COULD be capitalized on but people refused to do the simple thing of… not dead zoning themselves. The better buff to it that wouldn't affect low tiers as much would just be a power lockout for like 10 seconds after getting DS'd.
All this buff will cause is even more blights and nurses. But hey I guess people reap what they sow when they simply say "buff this" without giving ideas.It doesn't hurt any Killer that doesn't hurt themselves. Getting hit by a DS is a self-report of low skill in the majority of instances. A skilled Killer can 8 hook before a single kill (and still have gens that need to be done) if they play that way the entire time. A Killer crutching on Tunneling to win will have an artificially inflated MMR, and not deserve the rating they allegedly have.
In other words, it doesn't hurt Killers, it hurts playstyles that shouldn't be encouraged. Players engaging in undesirable playstyles shouldn't be rewarded for that. I would prefer a better basekit solution be implemented, but 5s DS is a decent bronze medal. -
The only buff anti-tunnel Endurance needs is to not Deep Wound. Have a Survivor get 3 sources of Endurance and not go down if they get unhooked and hit off hook (basekit BT), by a Survivor with BT (and hit within the first 20s), and they have OTR (and are hit within the first 80s). If a Killer doesn't want to gamble, they can hit the unhooking Survivor for a normal 2 hit down.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687920#Comment_3687920
I don't understand the bugs = bad thing. It's created some of the most entertaining and fun gameplay across every genre of gaming.
Every conversation I've had about the hug tech goes like this:
Person: Hug tech isn't counterable because!Me: Hug tech adds a layer of skill to anyone who's put time into this game (not a lot at that) and has plenty of counter play.
Me: Lists off several scenarios where hug tech is a gimmick and several where it's actually good but very niche
Person: But, but… IT"S A BUG it's not intended!!!
Me: What logic/reasoning did you provide to the conversation here?
Conversation ended.
The point is that the hug tech was a fluid mechanic that created another layer of skill on both sides and was very interactive most tiles, although it seems it was hard for people to learn blight could hug off of anything that wasn't a bush/jagged. Now it's far more linear, some interactivity is left as it's blight but a lot of tiles will be is it playable for blight? Is there anything I can do but guess? We love 50/50s around these parts, we love anything that could make this game more uninteractive!
The only reason it's being removed is because people simply can't be bothered in this game, regardless of the reason they prop up.
Regardless there's a solid chance blight gets 10 new techs that either get him kill switched for 2 years or take 2 years to patch. I'm all but done playing killer but it's so odd people talk about things like this like it hasn't been permitted not only in this game several times but in many, many others.
PS: If they delete something the blight initiates aka the hug tech that is skill expressive for both sides in major collision update it only makes sense they delete the pluto tech, something the survivor can control that also regards collision and is skill expressive. It's not just an us vs them thing it directly regards what's being changed about blight. It's not pain res for dead hard it's blight on blight.
This particular bug is uncounterable at short loops specifically, as the Blight has time to adjust their swing to hit regardless of Survivor input (in equal Survivor/Killer skilled scenarios, in unequal scenarios the more skilled player usually wins but that should normally be the case). I think many bugs are fun, but I don't think bugs that come at the expense of the opposition are. The locker bug is the perfect example of another unfun 1-sided bug. The Survivor can't progress the game, but they also can't die, thus they have the similar trade-off of win or lose that Bug-tech does. The Locker bug is Unfun for the victim (Killer), just as Bug-tech is unfun for the victim (Survivor).
Also I'm not sure why the usability of a power should be 100% for any Killer. There should always be power deadzones where you can't make meaningful use of your power, and different Killers should be powerful in those gaps. That keeps the variety of Killers enjoyable. If a Killer can use their power everywhere no matter what, cough Nurse cough, it isn't enjoyable for most players. The small circle loops on Ormond are worthless against Huntress, as she can hatchet over them, at the same time, it is super safe against Demo. That variety is fun.
My tolerance for bugs is in direct proportion to the strength of who can use it. Can Nurse/Blight use it? Strictly bad. Can Demo/Doctor/Bubba use it? Maybe we can let it slide, but only as a temporary stop-gap until they get a meaningful buff, then remove the bug. Survivor bugs have the problem of the strength is only in relation to their opposition. Can the Survivor use some bug, say the drop-vault no-stagger bug, against Nurse/Blight, maybe we can leave it in until they get nerfed to reasonable levels, but since it can also be used against Doctor/Bubba, it probably would be better gone.
Bugs are less bad in symmetrical games where both sides can utilize them (eg. Glitching to a sniper spot in an FPS), but I still find the gameplay predominantly unengaging (eg. Wavedashing in Melee). Do some bugs take skill, yes. Do they fail to account for the core design of the gameplay, also yes (but competitive Melee also takes out more than 2/3rds of the game [too few viable characters, maps banned, items banned] so it isn't even Melee anymore IMO). Since the bug fails to account for the core design, that is what makes it particularly bad. If Bug-tech was an add-on, it would be fine. If it was basekit and took all remaining rushes or added an extra 5s buffer to recover rushes, or added an extra 2s on fatigue timer, it would be fine. All of those would show that it was accounted for in the design. Bug-tech, as is, does not show that it was accounted for in the design, and should be removed. -
@Skitten56 said:
They do not need to remove lobby leaving. They however 100% do need to make prestige hidden on lobbies though in order to stop dodging / lobby shopping. This would solve a lot of issues.
While we are at it, BHVR should also 100% treat disconnects during the match loading as a standard disconnect and give that player a penalty if it happens frequently. It is so irritating to spend time queuing for a match, waiting for the lobby timer to start the match and then have someone crash/alt-f4 their game because they didn't like a offering or something. The result of this causes the match to timeout after a long wait and not get played, so everyone else has to spend another 5min waiting for a game just because someone had a little tantrum at an offering.I think if this many people are dodging offerings or Kobe-ing on first hook against certain Killers, it shows that both of those things are significant problems. If someone isn't even willing to engage with a game when they are involved, they probably are the source of grief.
I do think Killers dodge for no (real) reason from the lobby, but sometimes you can 'smell' a cheater. Hiding Prestiges is good, but hiding names is probably bad. If I see a dude with an 8 timezone difference from their steam profile, I'm not going to (enjoy) play(ing) with them. -
@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687962#Comment_3687962
I'd love a self-care buff >:3
Shame, looks like the buff schedule has Iron Will slotted in for Nov 2024, Thana for Jun 2025, Pharmacy for Dec 2025, Tinkerer in Jul 2026, and Self-Care is back in Feb 2027. Edit: these things take time, garsh. Stop expecting so much.
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As Survivor, naw, I predominantly lose regardless because the Killer will just tunnel the first person weaker than the Killer.
As Killer, yeah, people are expecting the Killer to turbo tunnel and bring things to speed gens up as fast as possible. -
@ExcelSword said:
There… already is a bleedout mechanic?
Did you not notice the bar below your icon when you are slugged on the ground? You will die after 4 minutes on the ground.
I think they mean an instant bleedout to skip the 4 minutes, as a surrender feature to skip someone wanting to just BM you for 4 minutes.
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@Raccoon said:
I'd rather they have made it work during every unhook instead of this.
It wasn't very hard to tunnel through old DS, if I'm being honest, and I was genuinely interested to see the 'rework.'
I really wasn't expecting it to just be a 2 second number fix...especially with that being the joke around the forum since its announcement.
Assuming the animation/drop still eats some of the time, not much is going to change for most players struggling with tunneling.
Yeah it took them ~2 years to realize that the 2s change was bad. It took them 2 weeks/9 months to buff Pain Res, 11 months to buff Pop, and 2 years to buff DS. Do we need to wait another year before they buff Self-Care or Thana? It was clear the 6.1 perk changes were bad, and trickling out these changes shows they know they were bad, but don't want to admit to all of them at once.
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@OmegaXII said:
I’m always wondering why getting healed doesn’t disable DS, since if you’re healing, you’re not being tunnelled LMAO. But I guess it might be because you have no control over your teammate’s action, okay cool.
But why does it stay active if you’re fully healed? I would hate to get DS’ed because of this if you play any instadown killer too well LOL.Tunneled is current defined by the game as doing a Conspicuous Action. You can be healed, but not do a CA yet. There are too many reasons to not change this definition, because it clearly works properly as is.
@RpTheHotrod said:
IT should deactivate if you bodyblock (because you aren't being tunneled there, you are intentionally putting yourself in the killer's path), and it should deactivate if fully healed since you're obviously not getting tunneled at that point.
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687528#Comment_3687528
Good question. The game engine has the ability to detect if you're doing a protection hit. There's also a score event for it.
I'd say have ds only activate after 2 seconds of getting unhooked so you don't unintentionally get sla protection hit and losing DS while the other survivor is still next to you immediately after getting unhooked.
The problem with this is a bad teammate can 'force' you to bodyblock for them by running to the only pallet/window in the area. Another prime example is attempting to leave basement, as that would always count as a bodyblock. The 'protection hit' definition requires the person you are 'bodyblocking' for to be injured. If a healthy Survivor unhooks you, and you take the Endurance hit for them, it doesn't count as a Protection hit. If they were injured though, that does count as a Protection hit. Plus you can't control the game's horrible auto-aim. I've had Killers (as and against) clearly hit the Rescuing Survivor, but it counts a hit on-hook due to auto-aim.
That's why the no collision until CA (that you later agreed with) is the best course of action.@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687795#Comment_3687795
No. The correct solution is if survivors can weaponize DS, for the killer to hardcore proxy camp, and hit the survivor off the hook, so they can't be healed, because that would allow them to weaponize DS. The best counter to weaponized DS is to just tunnel the people that might weaponize DS. And since we don't have psychic powers, and don't know who might want to weaponize DS, we need to assume everyone is guilty, and that everyone might want to weaponize DS, so we should hardcore tunnel everyone.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687795#Comment_3687795
BHVR just just make it so a survivor can't be healed by any means if they are holding shift, and the survivor can just hold shift when other survivors are next to them, if they don't want to be full healed. Or maybe DS can have an extra button input or something, that removes the ability for other people to heal them past the injured state. There should be some way BHVR can figure out how to have DS, without encouraging survivors to weaponize it.
Survivors can only weaponize DS against a Killer who forgot their brain in their other pair of pants. The Killer knows that someone else unhooked the Survivor (or if they Deliveranced), so they know to find someone else if they are afraid of DS. In a normal match that means there are always 3 Survivors who are going to not have DS up at any given time. Even if a Survivor is trying to pull a 55s DS, I would gladly take the 55s self-imposed slowdown of the Survivor not doing gens/CAs. That is essentially Pentimento levels of gen slowdown (that can stack) given to me on a golden platter. Why wouldn't I want 1 Survivor perk to give me 1 Killer perk?
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@BlightAbuser said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687901#Comment_3687901
My guy both these things have been around awhile. They are not new. Lol
I thought you were defending Bug'tech' in another thread because it also was around for a while, but to be fair it might have been a different Blight icon poster. You can ignore the rest if that wasn't you. So we should accept any and all old bugs? Is that the stance you want to take? When is a bug old enough to be considered 'good'. If the locker bug lingered beyond a hotfix would that be considered 'good'? I don't understand the point you are making here.
My stance is bugs=bad, remove bugs. -
@SilverCrane4643 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687896#Comment_3687896
I agree that Oni flicks is really strong, but don't forget he has to earn power and the power is very limited. As an Oni main I can confirm there are so many loops in Dbd that an Oni without the flicks wouldn't be able reach the surv. The removal of the flicks would significantly make him weaker.
( Edit: semantical difference feel free to ignore) If you played a soloq match against an Oni, or played more than 3 matches as Oni, you would probably never say you need to 'earn' the power. It just serves as a early game delay before you can use it more than anything. Every match I've played as Oni I only run out of power once there are only 2 Survivors left alive, so I find the limit meaningless.
Oni isn't made weaker by removing his bugs, he is made fair. Same with all bugs that advantage one side or another. Survivors glitching into lockers aren't made weaker by removing that ability, they are being fixed, and made fair. If you want to rely on bug exploits to win, then the locker glitch is a perfect example of how that is unacceptable for the game at large. -
Yes they should fix bugs. Crazy thought. Just because Blight got to live with this bug for years, maybe the next Survivor bug on the list should live an equally long time, but I'd rather they just fix them all. Especially collision on mid-air invisible hitboxes.
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In general I'm against bug abuse for advantage, but especially so for top tier Killers. If this type of bug were on Doctor, I would give it a pass, because he honestly needs way more help than BHVR gave him. These bugs are on Blight and Oni though. They are already way too strong for the effort needed to abuse their bugs. The problem with bugs for Survivor is that they can be used against Blights as well as Doctors. As such, I'm glad they actually plan on finally fixing this bug (but I need to see the actual effects to know for sure).
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- Survivor:
- Zarina (Female main, and she is the objective best character fite me irl [I'll lose])
- Felix (Male main, and he is the objective best male character fite me irl [I'll lose])
- Meg (Newbie main, lingered the longest and still return on occasion)
- Jeff (He's cool)
- Ash (He's cool)
- Kate (Intermediary Meg/Zarina main)
- Bill (Newbie male main, he is just way too loud though, I'd play and lose because he is too loud)
- Steve (I just think he's neat)
- Leon (Chris skin, less overall time)
- Nic Cage (Love this memelord, less overall time because he is newer)
Killer:- Ghostface (Objective Best Killer, fite me irl [I'll lose], there are Ghostfaces and Chasefaces/Campfaces, Chasefaces/Campfaces forgot their brain in their other pocket and lose [at life], Ghostfaces use M2 outside of chase and win [at life])
- Clown (I love being a D-tier Killer main)
- Legion (Yup, all my wins are from skills and not a busted Killer)
- Blight (I fought a Blight in soloq, got annoyed, was told 'just do X' to beat him, play him to prove you can't 'just' do that, the Survs couldn't do that, free win for me, if you can't tell this happens a lot)
- Trapper (D-tier main! Gotta love the classics. 2-story traps are the most fun as you know what is going to happen but they don't)
- Huntress (Most enjoyable 'Strong but fair' Killer, latest changes feel out of place and kinda busted imo)
- Myers (D-tier main again (no tombstoning in this house), Plaything/Penti/Thana is surprisingly effective on him, but it requires a massive playstyle shift)
- Pig (Kinda in the realm of D-tier, I actually haven't played her since the recent buffs because I like all the other D-tiers more)
- Demo (I just think he's neat)
- Dredge (Singularity would take this slot, but Dredge has simply been out longer. Both are fun in my mind under the 'Strong but fair' realm)
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
I'm actually kind of bored of being the gen jockey so I figured let me shake things up and run a Head On build in my SoloQ games.
In one match I managed to Head On the killer 2 times. Next thing I know the killer is smacking me on hook and nodding at me on hook.
My teammates are angry at me in end game chat for not doing anything productive (even though they got 4 gens done without me) and got mad at me for not saving them on hook when I knew the killer was proxy camping them on hook. Both the killer and survivors called me trash at the game.
What's this game without the killer taking Head Ons personally or teammates realizing different playstyles. I did rescue a teammate with a Head On and denied a hook.
I dunno, you should look at being hit on hook as a moment of pride. You did nothing toxic, and that person took that personally to the point of wasting a swing and hit CD multiple times on you. By complaining about it, I'd almost say you too took the game too seriously instead of thinking "lol I got that loser!".
Keep enjoying yourself, even if others aren't enjoying themselves. If they say "this locker is better to Head-On the Killer from" they say something of potential merit. If they say "don't have fun the way you want to have fun", they didn't say anything of merit and you are legally permitted to ignore them. (I mean you always are legally permitted to ignore random people on the internet, but its funnier to put it that way.)
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I voted yes, but to be more clear I need to explain. I'd say about the top 20% of people act nice no matter what, the bottom 20% act 'toxic' no matter what, (even if I wouldn't call it toxic, but the communities' definition of toxic) and the remaining 60% give you back what you feed them. Since it is as high as 20%, that can basically be 1 Survivor per match, so it can 'happen every match'. At the same time, the remaining 3 Survivors likely weren't stinky.
Back during Rank based matchmaking, I would predominantly 2-hook tango people, or hook them twice each, cap my BP categories, and let them go. The vast majority of players would be kind in endgame chat. Very few players t-bagged or insulted me in chat. When they did t-bag, it was often an obvious newer player who lacked the game sense to understand that I let them go. I couldn't be insulted by someone that probably had difficulties tying their shoes, so it never got to me. As such I usually see people crouching at exit gates in that same light. In a normal match I purposely don't tunnel/camp/slug/etc., and the weakest and most foolish player is always the first to t-bag if they win. The rest of the players knew if I decided to sweat or turbo-tunneled a single one of them, I would have won, so they leave with grace.
My mindset is, if I take offense by being insulted from an idiot, I'm probably the bigger idiot for letting them get to me. I mean they hit control on a keyboard, its not a big deal. They insult me in endgame chat, then I can hit the close chat button.
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I would say both Adrenaline and NOED are in the same boat of the surprise factor being the problem, not the perk itself. If a Killer was winning by a landslide, they never needed NOED, and it does nearly nothing for them. If a Survivor team was winning by a landslide, they have no/1 injuries/y to be healed, and does nearly nothing for them. If a close match is won by a lategame park, the side could have brought a mid/early game perk and turned that into a domineering victory instead.
Since the surprise feels bad moment of getting exposed down/4 heals popping is what is the worst part, having tells/warnings is more useful like Rancor's aura read. If there were greater tells, a Survivor team could cleanse the 5 bones (taking minimum 70s of slowdown compared to Pain Res' 90s), or the Killer could avoid spreading the pressure (causing more tunneling unfortunately, but reap what you sow).
Personally I would go as far as to have NOED basekit (like Borrowed Time became basekit, but the Exposed effect only), but it only is active in endgame as long as there are no Kills. Once a Kill is registered, then the basekit NOED deactivates in endgame, or doesn't activate when reaching endgame. The perk would have it activate no matter what, and also apply the haste effect.
One of the major benefits of basekitting NOED is that it no longer is a surprise factor nearly as much. We arguably could reduce the gens back down to 80s since the NOED adds 70s minimum (not including travel/search time) and the gens add 50s minimum (to 70s max, not including travel/search), so it would just be shifting the gen time for when it is 'needed' or not. It isn't needed if the Killer is turbo-tunneling, so they get 400s on gens and 0s on totems (50s less than live). If the Killer is spreading the pressure though, they can get their full 400s on gens and 70s on totems (20s more than live). This also increases the value of Survivor totem cleanse/finding perks, although might decrease the value of hexes, so I'd want to see a couple of PTBs testing it (not only 1, as people will meme). At the same time Undying+Devour might reveal people on dulls, and get more value than currently.
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Don't worry, they already did that for Skull Merchant! She has no audio cues when she is in stealth! Be happy every time you face an SM!
(But not sarcastically, they should instead add the equivalent of Visual Heartbeat for stealth Killers within 6-12m [or however far they are supposed to be heard at], and also for the 3 gen sounds for Killer at the same distance they are supposed to be heard at [regressing, not regressing, and currently being worked].)
@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686590#Comment_3686590
Right. Earlier today I had already suggested a lullaby for Plague only while she has her corrupt purge ranged power.
As far as audio hints, is it pay-to-win if Ghostface has an Auric-cell-only cosmetic that removes (drastically reduces) the audio levels of the whoosh his costume is supposed to emit as warning to unaware survivors?
I will say yes there is a pay-2-win bugged no-audio cosmetic for Ghosty, but I don't like people to abuse it so I won't say which one it is. It is pretty ugly though, so you can tell people use it to abuse the pay-2-win nature of it.
Plague has the sound cue for entering Red Puke mode, but it could also use a visual heartbeat equivalent. She also has a (maybe multiple) pay-2-win skin to hide/obfuscate the red smoke when she has Red Puke ready, so I would rather see custom client sided colors for game mechanics (scratch marks, pools of blood, Killer unique mechanics [other than Trapper/Hag/Stealth intended things]).
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A: Start T2, with the Tier 1 lunge add-on setting him permanently to T1
B: T1 is now buffed to 110% MS
Or both of the above.
(Delete/rework Tombstones, and allow the Mori in T3 whenever Survivors are on death hook regardless of add-ons.)
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@BluSaph said:
Blood Warden and Remember Me are not at all crutches. They're perks that are only strong at the end of the match. If a killer is good enough to not make it to endgame, they're worthless. If a killer is constantly in the endgame, they probably need perks to help them out a bit.
"...they probably need perks to help them out a bit." Almost like a crutch is needed to help people walk a little bit?
-- General post below not reply to above --
I think crutches are fine, as long as people don't pretend they earned their victory if they brought more than their opponent. I would go as far to say any Killer Power/perk/add-on can be measured as a crutch, but you only measure which side has more aid to determine who is crutching overall. In a single match, the 3-man SWF with meta perks+items is crutching against the average Killer who in turn is crutching against the perkless/itemless soloq Steve. The Killer can brag against the 3-man if they win, and the Steve can brag against the Killer if he wins. The Steve can only be claimed to crutch on the fact that be paid-to-win with his Scoops Steve outfit, and everyone thought "aww dang he's too cool, I can't chase that".
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Whenever killers complain about adrenaline, I often hear survivors often say to bring NoEd/ Terminus to counter it.
So I say If tunneling and slugging is such a big problem why not bring OTR/ Unbreak or other perks to Counter it? I bring OTR every game because how insanely strong it is. Allowing you to hide when injured/ deny aura reads and prevent tunneling. Should we have to bring perks to counter other popular perks?
I have seen a surge of decisive strikes during this event and funnily enough everyone is using it very aggressively by running straight at me across the map after being unhooked. Which I don’t have a problem with but I will say if it goes back to a 5 second stun I’ll probably just slug aggressive survivors.
The counter to Adrenaline is to win early, which can easily be done in 74% of my matches. (Not even counting the wins post gens popped.)
If I'm only supposed to win ~50-60% of matches (depending on how you interpret the intended 60% kill rate), then I'd say that isn't a large problem at all. NoeD on paper is the correct counter to it, but I typically don't plan on countering anything less than a 'full' perk (4/16 slots). I focus on my win-con, or hooking and killing Survivors so I pump my lethality as much as I can (Coup/Bam/Enduring/STBFL/or whatever 'win more' type of perk I feel like).
As others mentioned about tunneling, OTR and DS don't work if the Killer actually planned on tunneling. OTR is disabled by hitting fresh off hook, and DS gives ~6m of distance in the best of cases, which is nothing when the Killer plans on tunneling. Even then, worst case scenario both sides are in a circumstance where their opposition could do something they don't like. The major difference is tunneling is supported by the basegame mechanics (3 Survivors are a free win for Killer with more than 1 gen remaining, and Survivors are injured coming off hook). Another way of looking at this is Adrenaline is earned by completing ~80% of that sides' objective (and requiring a perk), but Tunneling is 'earned' by completing ~8-25% of that sides' objective (can tunnel off first hook 1/12, or dead on hook 3/12) and also doesn't require a perk.
Slugging is more specifically complaining about 1 minute or more on the floor. There is no benefit other than to spite/annoy a player by flooring them for more than a minute. If another Survivor is flying like a bee (threatening a rescue), it takes ~20s to damage them and run them off (or force the pallet they would try to save with). That means it needs all 3 remaining Survivors flying around to be net positive time efficient, but then the Killer has no one on gens with free injuries. I would prefer a surrender option/instableedout over a self-pickup after a minute, but both would solve the problem. A self-pickup would not encourage the Knockout gamers though, so it would probably be healthier for the game to implement a self-pickup after 1m of recovering.
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The only thing that made DS broken was the lack of the Conspicuous Action mechanic. Outside of Deliverance, there always is a Survivor that had to unhook them that the Killer can chase instead. Now that CAs exist, it is fair at 5s (and imo working in endgame). Otz unfortunately was forced into more and more sweaty gameplay due to MMR and his challenges, and thus he aggressively tunnels when he never used to strictly rely on that. Anything that counters the specific playstyle you plan on using is going to feel bad to go against, and in this case a near useless anti-tunnel still is a speedbump against tunneling.
Also reminder that he already proved how useless DS is against any non-M1 Killer or fall stagger, so if anything, DS should equally punish all Killers for tunneling. My recommendation is to disable Killer power for 5s per gen remaining after the stun ends (so 25s at 5 gens, and 5s at 1 gen). Alternatively make the Survivor invisible and silent (and no scratch marks/pools of blood) for 3-10s to run in any direction and hide. Alternatively again, give the Survivor a Background Player level Sprint Burst.
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My largest problem with SM is that for a Killer designed around stealth being basekit, she has no audio cues. Pig has the clear stand up delay and unsheathe noise, or the roar. Myers has the heavy breathing, as does Wraith. Ghostface has the cape flaps, and SM has.... nothing. She is silent for no reason. (Edit: Forget about Demo's loud portal traversal noise associated with his stealth too. All stealth Killers have a tell, except SM.)
My lesser issue is that disarming the drones does nothing. It feels like it only lasts 15s, and it doesn't even remove accumulated scan stacks. It should either permanently remove the drone (and from SM's inventory for 15s), last longer, or remove scan stacks.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684158#Comment_3684158
Still, MMR did a good job from the beginning to the middle. In other words, things got worse along the way. Presumably, this is not because survival/kill the only criterion, but because the way MMR is operated has changed.
I'm not sure I can even agree with that assessment. I have felt my matches become significantly sweatier, and I have been disabled from playing in the way I find most enjoyable (2 hooking each Surv, then dropping them under hook to prove I could have killed them). Technically I could still play that way, but my MMR would plummet as if I refuse to Kill Survs, I would only face baby Survs in boring matches. In old Reds, I could turn up or down my own sweat level to match my opposition, but now (and even since MMR was implemented) it is a pure gamble.
I think the long-term more obvious deleterious effects of MMR is what is sinking in, not any significant change in the how the system calculates itself (unless they did something good like swapping to hooks instead of Kills).
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Trick Question: Killers should be balanced around hooks (actions not states). As for the balance factor, I think >8 hooks should be considered a Killer win. 2 hooks on an individual Survivor should be considered a tie if we have to use the current individualized MMR. Staying on hook can be counted as 0.51, that way a first hook kill is worth 2.02 hooks, thus a marginal win. There could be an argument for also applying this lesser hook point value for tunneling (either hooking Surv A then A again, or hooking a Survivor before they did a Conspicuous Action). Balancing around 8 hooks as the tie, means that even if all 4 Survs are 1st hook killed, the Killer (marginally) won. Arguably all Survivors dying on first hook should be seen as a big matchmaking boost, as the Survivors clearly didn't stand a chance, but shouldn't be encouraged.
Balancing around hooks instead of Kills makes the game more enjoyable for Survivor, even if you lose, because you are at least able to participate in the match more often. As Killer, it demonstrates your skill, and the degree of the win is more clearly granulated (9/10/11/12/or decimals from first hook kills and camped kills or the optional tunneled reduced values) compared to Kills.
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They had one, it was Rank based matchmaking. It specifically targeted the unique traits of the game, and more accurately gauged player efficacy on the match than a blind Kill/Escape. Now there were some flaws, such as Wraith chases not counting as chase for the Survivor, but ironing out the errors would have made it far more effective as a measure of skill than blind MMR.
The other flaw is how lobby dodging is handled. If anyone lobby dodges (Killer or Survivor) for any reason (P100 or bathroom break), the matchmaking is thrown into whack and plugs anyone in the slot (800 [Brown+Yellow] to 1200 [Green] to 1600 [Purple] to 2000 [Red] MMR) instead of old Ranks merely seeking another relevant rank (Purple would seek Red or Green, but couldn't pull in a Brown/Yellow).
It also gave you a wide variety of matches, even at high ranks, as you could be a Red Ranked Killer matched against sweatlord Purple Survivors, or casual Purples, or sweatlord Reds, or casual Reds. If you were the among the best in the world, you could afford to tune down your level of effort based on your opposition much easier.
Finally, Ranked based matchmaking pushed hooks over Kills (as you need 9-12 hooks [without camped hook states] for the best grades in Malicious and Devout). As such, it more accurately gauged a Killers actual skill, in instances like 3/3/1(died on hook)/0 as a 3k, compared to 2/2/2/2 as a 0k. Clearly the 2/2/2/2 required more skill, as you had to hook EACH Survivor twice, so the best and the worst in the lobby, compared to turbo tunneling the baby Survs and getting lucky finding the 3rd.
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I do agree that he does need more add-on variety, but most people misuse his power to begin with. Ghostface is best played as a snowball Killer, which requires purposely giving up pressure early for more pressure later. Since most people can't play under that pressure, they panic, and try to play him as a bog standard M1 Killer.
As far as a gimmick add-on/power shifting add-on, I think they could reverse how his reveal works. When someone is fully stalked, they can reveal, and when they are unstalked they can't. In return, give the marked Survivors a massive debuff in place of Exposed, like 50% gen/totem/heal speed until they reveal Ghosty and end the mark early. To not make it completely unfair and cheesy, they could remove 30s from the timer if Ghosty gets revealed by any means other than you being the one to reveal him. (Aka multistalk and a teammate reveals, or Ghosty M1s to purposely cancel early.) This could serve both as a dedicated stealth add-on, and a playstyle altering add-on.
As far as a basekit buff, I'd say a 10% hindered for the Killer Instinct duration would be good. It can't be done to 'lose more', as you can't reveal Ghosty while marked, but it gives Ghosty a bit of a chance when bullied. High skill Survs can play around it by revealing at windows/pallets, and High skill Ghosties can use it to slow down Survs who never heal (or take advantage of them not looking backward in chase). I would tie it to the Killer Instinct duration, because that buffs the currently useless KI add-ons, without becoming too oppressive. I do think it overall is fair that he can be revealed by a dedicated 'bully Surv', and that is the best way to counter Hag/Trapper/Ghosty as strategic/setup Killers.
Other add-on buffs could be to provide more rewards for Marked downs. I love Iri Cam (or Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage on Marked down), and maybe other similar 'perk effect for a Marked down' could be implemented. Scourge:Gift of Pain (or Sloppy Butcher for a lesser version) could be great for Marked downs, as well as maybe 75% hit CD on Marked down (Super STBFL), or Haste on Marked down (Rapid Brutality), or even double power Brutal Strength/Fire Up for 30s. Some of these could even be shifted to when they get hooked/unhooked if you downed them while marked, to make more use of them (Rapid/Scourge/Brutal).
As far as Brown add-on players, I can't quite agree as a Ghosty main. You shouldn't need power any more often than 20s (unless they reverted the patch 7.0.0 reduction from 24s to 20s). Also Philly is mediocre at best. Both suffer the same problem of encouraging chase stalks, instead of strategic stalks. Get a 99 in 2.45s, then move on to another Surv. Falling prey to chase stalking won't provide you the pressure you need later on in the match. Also don't be afraid to pop stalks just to scare people away from objectives. If it causes a player to stop attempting an unhook, or get them off of a gen, it still is worth it to pop the stalk, especially if you plan on circling around during the final 5-10s for a free down if you used Olsen's Journal (Oblivious while Marked).
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I just think it should be basekit at 8 hooks (and all Survs alive), then as long as you Mori people to kill them, it stays unlocked. This would make people play towards either Mission Complete (hooking Survivor 1/2/1/2/1/2/3) with a 7 hook/3 kill win, or Mission Accomplished with 11/12 hook (equivalent) and 3/4 basekit Moris. I think this would naturally de-sweat the game since you can play to prove your skill only by 8 hooking before a kill.
I would also unlock something like a basekit lesser White Glyph for Survivors after the gens and totems are completed, for a similar Mission Complete/Mission Accomplished for Survs.
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Plague.
Killer mechanics should add on top of the baseline, not remove existing mechanics. Deleting Altruism feels too 'final destination no items' sweatlordy to me instead of being fun and interesting.
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@Witchubtet said:
To add onto my statement, it’s mainly people who run to every single pallet they can find, pre-drop it, then book it to the next one and sprint around it
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678128#Comment_3678128
^ WOW. It’s not like 45% of the pallets are in corridors or have some sort of obstacle next to them. Making pre-dropping way more powerful in those areas. I’m just saying if a killer can’t do too many actions or certain actions without it effecting them (Kicking gens and face camping -thank god they got rid of FC’ing I even hated it-) why can survivors pre-drop and endlessly pallet vault?
(I'm assuming you aren't making the claim that 45% of pallets are God Pallets)
Most of those corridor pallets are only effective on certain approach angles. Look at the RPD Trophy Room pallet that you can combine with the hole room for a longer run. If the Survivor approaches from the Chief's office, that pallet is far less valuable. We can also look at the Lery's Reception desk Pallet. If the Killer isn't stunned on pallet drop, they will be able to round the waiting couches and get a hit. Also the Killer still has the choice of which side to kick from. That provides the Killer a valuable tool to use for their advantage in corralling Survivors to a deadzone they likely just created.
Even then, most pallets still provide more value while standing than dropped. It is good that Survivors can pre-drop and endlessly vault, because the majority of the time that is a mistake to capitalize on. Mr TatorHead creates guides on how to most efficiently loop on maps on nearly every facet of the map. As Killer, this is still a valuable tool, because you can recognize the counter, or if you should chase someone else (when it is too strong). I watched most of his map guides to equip myself with that counter-knowledge. You can see how in-depth he goes with the video length. If you watch one of these to completion, I honestly believe you will come around to love those foolish pre-droppers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eVK2BN9aicNow I'm not saying you have to spend 5 hours and 21 minutes of your life learning Eyrie, but I truly think you would come around on this issue if you did. Regardless, best of luck with your matches.
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I think their arguably should be a tier 4 for adept loadouts as a set bonus (regardless of the Killer), or for not stacking a concept.
For example, if you only have 1 Slowdown, 1 Intel, 1 Lethality, and 1 Stealth perk, then each are 25% more effective (as being at Tier 4). Alternatively bringing Wraith adept perks, Bloodhound+Predator+Shadowborn (even on say Legion), then each are 25% more effective.
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You don't need a perk for pre-drops, you just need your A/D key to work. Pre-drops can be walked around or Bloodlusted in the vast majority of circumstances.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
The map is still too red. Red scratchmarks, red pools of blood, and red auras, need to be much brighter and vibrant on this map, so the red map isn't a massive killer nerf the entire game.
Alternately, give killers the ability to pre-set aura colors per map, so we aren't stuck seeing red on red.
Hard agree, let Killers create pre-sets for Aura/Scratch Mark colors so they can swap per map. For me this is an issue on Borgo and Ormond more than any other map, and I can't see scratch marks no matter what color-blind setting I use.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677104#Comment_3677104
Not sure what game you're playing, but gen control and regression is directly tied to being able to kill survivors. If you just let them repair gens without trying to regress them, they'll repair them MUCH faster and escape MUCH faster. Part of killing survivors is gen management. That's quite normal in the intended gameplay design - there is even perks dedicated to it! How about that.
What game I'm playing? Helldivers 2 because MMR is ruining the game for me, but in Dead by Daylight, I try to mess with Survivors predominantly as Killer, and mess with gens predominantly as Survivor. Plus I must be doing something right as Killer if I can win 74% of my games before the gens pop (see picture below).
That is correct, that if the Killer doesn't attempt to kill them while not kicking gens, the Survs will pop gens. If the Killer provides more pressure than the Survivors are able to keep up with, or do a gen kick where the passive regression won't be stopped early, then it will help Killer win. They may repair gens faster, but you'll also find that the Killer will kill them even faster than that. Playing ineffective gen defense may get the Killer 6 hooks by 5 popped gens, but playing effective offensive pressure will likely get the Killer 9 hooks by 5 popped gens (if the Survivors are even able to pop that final gen).
Like I said before, a basic gen kick abandoning a chase gives the Survivors 36 gen seconds at the cost of ~9 regressed gen seconds, a net 27s loss for Killer. Even with a hooked Survivor and still abandoning a chase, it only provides Survivors 12 gen seconds at the cost of that same ~9 regressed gen seconds, still a net loss now at 3s for Killer. When you can guarantee the regression will sit for an extra 12/108 realtime seconds (hook or no hook timers respectively), then the gen kick finally is worth it for Killer.
There are also perks for seeing more blood pools (Bloodhound), but I'm not sure you would agree this will carry a Killer to victory from existence alone. I would even argue that by purposely using a bad perk, it makes you lose more often. I can't recklessly use Hex: Pentimento without another totem perk and expect it to make me win, despite the massive 30% gen slowdown it provides when active. A perk being dedicated to something doesn't make it innately useful by virtue of existing.
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The biggest problem with the anti-camp is people's misuse of it. If you could tap the button and queue up the Kobe to happen at 59.99s on hook, or hold to Kobe instantly, it would work much better.
Tunneling just needs anti-tunnel Endurance to not Deep Wound. The Killer can run into BT, OTR, then a normal form of Endurance, and tunneling suddenly becomes less of an issue. To prevent bodyblocks, I would make it so a Survivor who hasn't done a CA to lose collision with the Killer. That way they can't be basement/window blocked, or block for an ally at a chokepoint, but the unhooker is still vulnerable to those strategies.