SilverCrane4643
SilverCrane4643
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694836#Comment_3694836
1 & 5: I'm now confused, because 5 was both of us agreeing that it is fine to basekit bugs if the power shifts as a result. But you disagree with that in 1. My #5 point was that if a bug provides 15 power points out of 100 expected, then we need to take away 15 from the base power if the bug will now be considered basekit.
3: I think this is perfect, because we started with one kiddie pool, and we keep grafting/duct-taping more plastic pools together hoping they keep the water in. We might have 28 kiddie pools and 3 large plastic pools strapped together, but they still lack the potential depth a purpose driven concrete pool can provide. If we want things sweaty and serious, shouldn't we have had basic QoL like ranked bans and replays and a casual playlist permanently active? We had a casual playlist (Rank based matchmaking), but now it is only a sweaty ranked playlist (MMR).
4: Lead a horse to water but can't make them drink I suppose.
6: Top 25% of players for 'top MMR' is hardly effective imo. The 25th percentile Killer has no chance against the 10th percentile players, let alone the 5th and 1st. That starts people on both Surv and Killer to crutch on powerful tools instead of improving their skill. If the 'top MMR' was 10% or 5% I would concede this point, but it is too large for me to consider it effective as is.
7: I completely understand not wanting stats based decisions. I was and still am against the 6.1 perk changes, and am glad they rolled back the nerfs on Pop/PR/(in progress) DS, and I hope they rebuff Thana into being viable on more than Legion and Plague. This however is an issue that caused far more suffering that pleasure. Every Survivor player I've typed/heard/talked to is soooooo sick and tired of Blight. This is a net positive overall.
8 & 9: I would like to know what math you are using to come to this conclusion. I can at most, be 25% of a Survivor team, all of a Killer team, or 20% of the players in any given lobby. Even if you used (.25 [Survivor]+1[Killer])/2[Averaged], you could only come up with 62.5% max.
10 & 11: Just because you haven't heard of someone getting punished for breaking the rules doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist. Just as if I've never personally seen someone ticketed for Jaywalking or Speeding doesn't mean the law doesn't exist. We aren't arguing whether or not those rules/laws should or shouldn't exist, just discussing their mere existence. Asking for proof of bans given that BHVR forum rules specifically prohibit that (or see picture below), is either blissful ignorance to be favorable, or an attempt to get me banned to be unfavorable. You can't use that as a point of proof regardless given the forum rules. Again, this point was started on you saying the game's rules were my rules. I proved that they weren't my rules so it removes 'selfish' from the equation.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7AENCA44E16L/forumrules.png
Again I'll keep the reply as short as possible. Like I said I'm down for a debate, so if you want share your discord name and let's have a friendly talk.
1 & 5- Reply- I've already talked about that in the comment of April 2 at the second paragraph. The Oni is not a good example of that.
3- Reply- At this point they should create a ranked mode, but I'm not sure about having a total different balance (beside having some perks or add ons limitations).
4- Reply- Correct
7- Reply- I have my opinions about 6.1 update, but I think it''s better to not talk about that here. It can be an interesting argument to talk in the discord talk if you want.
8 & 9- Reply- No math used just a "gut feeling" based of your previous comments, but I've already said that I might be wrong.
10 & 11- Reply- No man, here is what you are not understanding. The Dbd community even though they are very entitled, any hot topic in the community would cause a big reaction. One good example of that is the recent Myers standoff in front of a surv inside a locker. The surv didn't want the Myers to get his achievement by killing everyone in the match with the add on. They both stood there for 40 mins (you probably what happend at the end, but it is better to not mention thath here). What I'm trying to say that anything would have been in the publi eyes. During the cheating epidemic, many videos have shown what happend to many of these people. To this date I have never seen or heard someone getting banned of a tech. Any case of that would have been for sure a hot topic talked in the community, but it has NEVER happend.
So you saying "We aren't arguing whether or not those rules/laws should or shouldn't exist, just discussing their mere existence" is irrelevant. Yes, they do exit, but if the devs are not even following their own rule so what's the point of reporting these people? (I'll repeat, nobody have ever been banned for techs, that would have caused a big online discussion). Again… There is a difference between a breaking bug and tech. Both are bugs that give an advantage, the difference you need skills to pull of a tech and you can them only in specific scenarios. Not to mention the many other good things that techs bring to the game, but I've aleady mentioned all of them.
This is exaclty what I mean with your black and white view. You keep saying "it is bug, it must be fixed", "they devs said it is a bug, no discussion then", "it is in the game rules, that's why I report them", "there is no proof of the reports bccs it is one of the rules of the page". I don't mean to offend but it a close mind thinking. This type of mind sets are good when there is a discussion of math, but here we are talking about a change that affects a part of the player base.
Tbf you are not totally close minded, but it seems like that you don't want to be open minded. One example is your point nr 6 from April 5 (the first one). You said that the MM has his own flaws, which I totally agree, but I can also be close minded and say "the devs in a old qna said that MM is really good in finding players of you skill and it is really good on his job". You know what I mean… they can say whatever they but real life says the opposite. So let's keep the same mindset on other topics too.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693612#Comment_3693612
Prologue- It's long to provide a hearty explanation. It is long so that you don't have to assume or try to infer a position I hold, because it is detailed. I find this avenue of discussion perfectly adequate and friendly. I can't force you to reply or ignore this, but I will reply to your points regardless.
1- Your response to my post with the Oni flick picture had the first statement be "I heavily disagree the first part." My first part, which I read as being the first paragraph which that paragraph's sum conclusion was 'bugs bypassing restrictions yields an advantage'. If you meant a different part, it wasn't the first paragraph, so I don't know which 'part' you were referring to.2- Exactly, it is a non sequitur. It isn't relevant. That was the point I was making, that you were defending something that I didn't care about or find relevant. I don't need to attack/defend against a position of pigs are grey on Thursdays because I don't care if someone thinks that.
3- What about this is black and white? I'm not saying there is 0 skill expression. I'm saying the skill expression isn't worth mentioning in comparison to a place that rewards it. Alternatively think of games as swimming pools. DBD is a plastic kiddie pool you can buy for cheap, 2ft deep at tops. Plastic pools can only really get as deep as 6ft if you spend a lot of money. For a good amount of skill expression, you need a concrete swimming pool. Concrete pools usually start at 5ft minimum, and can go as deep as I've seen at 20ft. I'm saying the other games are concrete pools with depth, and DBD is a shallow plastic pool in terms of skill expression.
4- How is greater skill expression, when you want greater skill expression, nonsense? There are multiple facets of the game, and I split them into 2 major umbrellas. Micro is chase, Macro is hook states/gens/pallets broken.
5- My read of this is we agree.6- My comment here is taking into account that DBD's current matchmaking is garbage, and random skill levels are brought in all the time. I have 74% winrate on Killer before gens pop, and I frequently have 20-200hr Survs autofilled into lobbies. Autofill means anyone can play with anyone. That means all skill level players have to play with all skill level players.
7- I think less than 100 total players are against this change. That still is 'many people', just not a statistically significant amount. The majority of people don't care, want Blight nerfed anyway possible, or care about other things more. Every 'top-MMR' Survivor I've talked to or heard from is sick and tired of Blight. Sweatlord Blights who do this is soloq are ruining your ability to have fun using bugs, so blame them.8- Black and White lacks nuance, if I have nuance in my stance it can't be black and white. Since I don't care about people bug exploiting in matches I'm not involved in, I am not saying "You can't do that ever". Just because you say something is, doesn't make it true. Addressing your second point, not wanting to deal with people breaking the game rules is something that affects 4 other people in the match, whether it is a Killer abusing a bug, or a Survivor griefing their team and denying the Killer a normal match, or a software cheater denying all other players a normal match. You could say that I am at max 25% selfish, and 75% not wanting others to be victimized in preventing people from breaking the game's rules (or this one specifically). Essentially I don't want others to be victimized down the line, so I report rather than hard DCing when I find someone doing this. If I hard DCed, you could rightfully claim I'm selfish, but I don't.
9- 25% selfish again, 75% caring for others.
10- When people break the game rules, I report them. Hardly weird or selfish, but again you could claim it is 25% selfish 75% altruistic. You could even make the argument that I don't want more people than just me to be affected by people breaking the rules, that's why I even bother reporting them in the first place, so it likely is much greater than 75%. If I helped 1 match, it brought it up to 7/8 or 87.5% altruistic, and 10 matches to 39/40 or 97.5% altruistic.11- No I mean breaking the games' rules, not mine. Picture of relevant section and highlighted subsection below.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/992XZ5NJUBLV/bugtechbannable.png
Unless you want to claim I hacked BHVR's website and changed the game rules to 'my rules', it is the games' rules, they aren't mine. My rules are things I apply to myself and not others. Like I don't intentionally tunnel unless someone wants to bodyblock, or I try to avoid camping to give them a chance of unhook. I know I could win easier if I did those things, but by using weaker Killers and not crutching on free win strategies (against soloq), I force myself to improve at the game. Those are my rules I impose upon myself, not on others.
12- That may be true, I haven't checked. I just figure if you are bothering to play a custom with someone, then everyone would have a shared understanding of what is and isn't acceptable. I would think someone would be able to confront the person directly over doing something they aren't supposed to do, as opposed to being reliant on using the reporting system. As far as I was aware they fully disabled reporting in customs, but I could be mistaken.
13- Harassment is also against the game rules. I was making the point that if I wanted to engage in breaking the game's rules, I need to do so by taking the correct path if I don't want to risk getting banned. Outside comms are not monitored by BHVR or reportable, thus Discord harassment is 'legal' in the sense that I couldn't be banned from the game for doing it. My friends might not like it, or they will insult me back, but it is divorced from the game at large regardless.Again I'll keep the reply as short as possible. Like I said I'm down for a debate, so if you want share your discord name and let's have a friendly talk.
1- This was my disagreement "It doesn't matter how many backflips someone has to do IRL to unlock this magical power, it still is unfair for the opposition. If the powers were designed around their use, then maybe Oni wouldn't 1-hit down on flicks and get a new backhand animation, or Wesker would have a longer CD post-throw/slam or Deep Wound injured targets and down Deep Wounded targets, or Blight would have a longer Fatigue/token recovery time".
2- No point to talk
3- "I'm saying the other games are concrete pools with depth, and DBD is a shallow plastic pool in terms of skill expression". Reply- That's how the game started 7 years ago, but now killers have become more complicated, perks become more complicated, maps become more complicated. Let's avoid the argument "this is how the core of the game started so this is how it should be stay". Dbd started as an hide and seek game, then turned to a chase oriented because of the community. The game had many broken/op things, but they worked on these and the game is getting closer to be suited to the comp scene (there is still a lot work to do). The game started as a spooky and creepy game, but now it is getting more goofy changes, like animal skins, Nicolas perks, the april fool gamemode… What I'm saying is that the "dbd is a shallow plastic pool in terms of skill expression" is correct if the game was the same like the start. Now the game has become more complicated than ever, some in good way (base kit changes and techs) and some in a bad way (too many perks and add ons).
4- My "nonsese" was about you telling me what I should play based of what I like.
5- Ok
6- I agree that mm is not the best, but we can not ignore that at least it separates for the most part player from different skill levels.
7- "I think less than 100 total players are against this change. That still is 'many people', just not a statistically significant amount". Reply- Avoid to talk like the devs. Even though they are the minority it doesn't mean that we shouldn't consider them. These are players that are the most invested to the game, let's not forget that.
8- It seems more like a 75% selfish and 25% caring for others, but I could be wrong.
9- Doesn't seem to be.
10- " When people break the game rules, I report them". Reply- My response on that comes after that.
11- Look… I have a bit more than 5.5k hours in dbd. I started to play october 2019 and to this date I have NEVER heard or seen someone getting banned bcs of techs. There have been cases which people got banned bcs of breaking bugs (I've explained what is the differences between techs and breaking bugs). So unless you can provide any proof (with also report description) of people getting banned bcs of techs, so I'm safe to comfirm that you enjoy to waste your time for pointless selfish battle.
12- Ok
13- Ok
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691922#Comment_3691922
You disagree that 'a bug bypassing a restriction gives an advantage'? I'm not sure how you back up this claim.
As for the part you want me to address, I don't find relevant. That's why I haven't addressed it. To me it would be like saying the Blood pools should be purple instead of red, it would still largely impact people with R/G colorblind, and provide nothing of value for the majority of the playerbase. Also I don't go to an Ice Cream shop and ask for a steak. DBD is where you get Ice Cream, not steaks. Got to a steakhouse if you want steaks. If you want to express your skill, do so in a game the rewards that, like DOTA or Counter Strike. When I hear 'I want greater skill expression in Dead by Daylight this specific way', I also hear 'I don't value the rest of the skill expression the game provides'. There is macro skill, and there is micro skill. Macro skill is where the majority of the game's skill expression lies, but people only want micro skill expression since it's flashier. You want more Micro, play a Shooter or a Moba, you want more Macro, play an RTS, but DBD has a good balance of both, as is, right now.
The 2nd paragraph is my core point. Bugs are not part of the designed strength, and the basekit must be adjusted for the new designed strength if the bug is going to be included as the new normal. As for general tier lists and specific org's tier lists, they are purpose driven. Otz's tier list is for top tier MMR, aka the top 25% of the playerbase. A comp tier list is for dealing with the specific rules of comp, and caliber of opponents. In comp, there largely isn't a 'weak link', but in matchmade games there most often is. In comp, clock callouts coordinating activities is the norm, in matchmade games they aren't. I understand that people may want changes that will give them more strength, but that doesn't mean their opposition at every skill level should have to deal with that. If it were only allowed in comp, then that's fine. That is my stance, (hardly black and white) since a bug exploit is expressly reportable only in matchmade games, Comp, scrims, and all other customs can use it as much as they want. Regular matchmade games have the rule to disallow bug exploits for an advantage. I don't care if you flick in customs, you can keep the bug, but keep it out of normal matches. When people start abusing the bugs in normals, then I want the abusers (temp) banned or the bug fixed if I need to repeatly report people for abusing it. Keeping it out of sight keeps it out of mind. I never needed to complain about someone in a different match than mine. I did (feel the) need to complain about the person breaking the rules in order to hit me when the power normally doesn't allow for that in that circumstance.
Skill expression needs to include micro decisions, as well as macro. Disarming trapper traps is a macro skill decision. "Is it worth my time to disable that trap, or should I pump the gen instead?" Worrying about chase interaction as the only skill expression is short-sighted at best, and willfully ignorant at worst. People may like fast powers, but people also like long-form tactical powers, sadly 'Chess-Merchant' has largely poisoned that well (in both design and those who play her). I play Ghosty and Trapper in a very tactical and macro oriented way. I pre-stalk 2-4 Survs before even starting my first chase. Trapper is the opposite, I place 1 or 2 traps and rush into action. I need to get high value traps set and get people off gens before it is too late for me to snowball. Both involve large amounts of macro skill and snowballing pressure for my wins, and the Survivors could win if they displayed any macro skill (chase me and disable my power). Since people have so little respect for macro, they don't do that, and lose as a result against me.
I understand if you want to show your skills outside the realm of the 'supposed way', but customs/scrims is the place for that. There is no rule against bug usage in customs, only normal matchmade games. You can have your cake (bug not fixed) and eat it (play without getting banned when using it), just use the appropriate avenue. Just like if I want to verbally berate someone, I have to have them in my Discord call instead of typing it in endgame chat. The rules are (oversimplied) 'don't harass using in-game tools', so I can play customs and bully my friends in Discord with a "they're coming to get you Bar-bar-UH" and then attack them from the shadows and call them a slur/swear to throw them off. I can't do that in normals. (Actually I just double-checked and the 'Harassment' rules are surprisingly light in comparison. I can say to an opponent "you are 2% stinkier than the normal person", and since that's an insult, it's illegal, regardless of the tame and absurdist nature of the insult. The bug abuse rules are far harder to break by accident by using normal intuition.)
Shorter summary- Play customs if you want to break the rules, then you can use bugs, and people won't complain about rules being broken
- Skill Expression includes Micro and Macro, if you ignore Macro, of course there is going to be a lack in skill expression
- If you want more Skill Expression play DOTA/CS/SC, games that actually reward skill expression
You made so many nonsense arguments that I don't know where to start. You're comment is also way too long for this topic, but if you want we can do it on Discord instead. That allows us to be more free and avoid these big comments that leads to misunderstandings. Atm I'll just reply shortly some of your points and then you decide if you want a face to face friendly discussion.
1- "You disagree that 'a bug bypassing a restriction gives an advantage'? I'm not sure how you back up this claim". Reply- I don't think that I ever said that. You can find the answer of that in my April 1 comment.
2- "To me it would be like saying the Blood pools should be purple instead of red, it would still largely impact people with R/G colorblind, and provide nothing of value for the majority of the playerbase". Reply- Uh?
3- "Also I don't go to an Ice Cream shop and ask for a steak. DBD is where you get Ice Cream, not steaks". Reply- Terrible analogy, the black and white point of view is not good in a videogame.
4- "You want more Micro, play a Shooter or a Moba, you want more Macro, play an RTS, but DBD has a good balance of both, as is, right now". Reply- Nonsense.
5- "Bugs are not part of the designed strength, and the basekit must be adjusted for the new designed strength if the bug is going to be included as the new normal". Reply- I already said that's what I would prefer them to do. I'm fine if they nerf Blight without removing the Hugtechs, but that would stupid since there a killer called Nurse in the game.
6- "I understand that people may want changes that will give them more strength, but that doesn't mean their opposition at every skill level should have to deal with that. If it were only allowed in comp, then that's fine". Reply- Nonsense sentence here. The "every skill level" makes me wonder your knowledge of the game. At low skill level you will NEVER find killers doing techs. At mid level is very rare and those that can do it are not good with it. At high level most player can do it decently, but the high level games is a really small % of the game. The comp level all Blights can do it really well, but the survs can also deal with do it very well. So no, it doesn't affect the other level players.
7- "If it were only allowed in comp, then that's fine". Reply- Why do you think that many are against this change? I already said many times that removal of the hug techs affect especially at high and comp level. So the removal affects this part of the playerbase, so they if they keep it in the comp games that would fine, but that's not gonna happen.
8- "That is my stance, (hardly black and white) since a bug exploit is expressly reportable only in matchmade games, Comp, scrims, and all other customs can use it as much as they want". Reply- The black and white mentality makes the game less interesting. The second part of your sentence sounds like "I don't want to deal and get better with it, let other suffer that". Sounds like a selfish desire.
9- "I don't care if you flick in customs, you can keep the bug, but keep it out of normal matches". Reply- Again, it sounds like "I don't want to deal and get better with it, let other suffer that". Selfish again.
10- "When people start abusing the bugs in normals, then I want the abusers (temp) banned or the bug fixed if I need to repeatly report people for abusing it". Reply- Once again it sounds like "I don't want to deal and since I don't like I pretend a ban to these people". Weird and selfish request.
11- "I did (feel the) need to complain about the person breaking the rules in order to hit me when the power normally doesn't allow for that in that circumstance". Reply- You mean breaking your rules.
12- "There is no rule against bug usage in customs, only normal matchmade games". Reply- You can use techs, but not breaking bugs, this is included in bothe comp and pub games.
13- The last part is also weird. Don't mix gameplay action with the player action by text or voice. They are not the same thing.
Ok, I tried my best to keep it short. Like I said in the beginning if you want we can do it on Discord and have a face to face friendly discussion instead.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690907#Comment_3690907
When there is a standard understanding of how a power functions, and a bug distorts this norm, the bug provides an advantage for the person abusing it. When I'm told "just leave a bugtech Blight loop", they proceed to bounce off of something behind me and get the hit on the subsequent rush for free. When an Oni flicks around a corner, they can hit when the power isn't supposed to be able to damage. The counter is to hide in the wedge of the attack range, but flicks bypass the intended counterplay. (See mediocre MS paint drawing for reference).
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Q65TUOLFEE00/oniflick.png
These bug exploits delete fair counterplay. That is my issue with them. It doesn't matter how many backflips someone has to do IRL to unlock this magical power, it still is unfair for the opposition. If the powers were designed around their use, then maybe Oni wouldn't 1-hit down on flicks and get a new backhand animation, or Wesker would have a longer CD post-throw/slam or Deep Wound injured targets and down Deep Wounded targets, or Blight would have a longer Fatigue/token recovery time.
When there is a limit to a power, that means there is counterplay to a power. When there is a bug to abuse in order to bypass any of these limitations, then counterplay is deleted.
I don't see any fun in having my options being limited by bugs, but I can understand the schadenfreude of denying an opponent counterplay and feeling like an unstoppable force. I don't think we should balance around bypassing the fair limitations though. If I get 100 power points, and Oni's power duration is worth 60, and the instadown 25, and the speed 15, these are all assuming the lethality has the counterplay. Adding in flicks adds (for sake of argument) 25 more points of lethality, so it should lose ~half power duration, or instadown, or something else to counterbalance it back to being fair. It would be the same if Trapper could place traps directly in front of gen spots, and it would only allow the Survivor to work the gen and magnet into the trap, while also disabling the ability to disarm the trap until the gen is completed.I heavily disagree the first part. You ignored pretty muh what I've said, which was that a tech creates a complex interaction that allows more skill expression from both sides. The low or mid tier players are not that affected by techs, this affect a lot high level players. You are talking about the "supposed playstyle" which makes sense, but like I said already and stop ignoring it… it does not affect most of the players. The high level players are the ones that like to scrim, do 1v1 and play tournaments. We want to express our skill even outside the "supposed way". If you say that you don't think that Blight's hugtechs are fun, but stop with black and white arguments like the"supposed way", "bug=fix" or "devs said it is bug, no discussion then".
On the other hand, I understand and I maybe agree the second part of your comment. You say "if they want to keep the hugtechs, nerf his base kit". I would prefer this change honestly, but don't use Oni as an example. Yes, I'm an Oni main so I might biased, but I genuinely don't see it problematic. If you look at any killer tier list you'll see that he's placed most of the time mid A tier and sometimes bottom A tier. In DbdL which is organized by veteran people, they have put him at Tier 3 (the same as Artist and Demo). At this level you can bet they all know how to flick, but since Oni has to gain his power which is also very limited, he has a tech that allows more comeback and skill expression.
You might say, ok let's make easier for him to get his power and remove his flicks. We come to the same problem like Blight… it lowers the skill ceiling and skill expression. Me as an Oni main I like to show my dedication and my skills outside the realm of the "supposed way". I would take any day an Oni which might have a problem getting his power, but at least he's scary to have him against. Btw your Trapper example has a similar problem with SkyBilly, which there is no chase interaction. There is a reason why people in general prefer to play against a Hillbilly than a Knight. People enjoy killers that have a power which allow fast reaction moments in chase and that don't limit their movement.
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:P
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690862#Comment_3690862
"… if you can dash during the frame you press M1 and not throughout the whole dash…" during the frame is my way of saying frame perfect. Sorry if that wasn't clear. That sounds like it should verify the entire dash to me, and refund failed/improper uses.
Edit: I've lost faith in reporting bugs as they don't get addressed or fixed when I do report them. See
1, 2, 3, 4, 5Man, yuo have to understand that the world (espeially dbd) is not blak and white. Are they all bugs/unintended mechanics? Yes. Should we treat them the same way? Absolutely not.
This is what rub me wrong, "it is bug, fix this", "the devs said it is bug, no disussion". These people are close minded and can't think critically. There are differences between breaking bug and "techs". A breaking bug are issue in a game where a player gains advantage, but without allowing the counter part to do something. One example was the recent bug where you can inside a locker without being grabbed. What does this bug bring to the game? Nothing, the opposite side doesn't have an interaction.
Now… a tech is also a bug, but it is used only in specific situation and it requires a specific movemenet or action to do it. Sounds like what you do with a breaking bug, right? Well yes… but it brings an intercation between both sides and it is extra challenging to do it in chase. If you fail it, you lose time, but if you do it correctly then you are skilled since you did that specific action during a chase.
You as a surv if you see the Blight doing an hug tech, you can leave the loop (if possible), you can go around, you can crouch tech… When you see an Oni preparing for a flick, you can avoid it by reacting in time (with a medium size loop), you can go more to the side so he can't reach you, you can do a corner tech… You see what I mean? It creates a complex interaction between killer and surv, which makes the game more fun and interesting at high levels.
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690106#Comment_3690106
ok, survivor use flash get in locker. fake vault.
use pick item to jump up to shack.
oh you were talking about going outside the map… My bad I didn't understand. Well that's the same problem with SkyBilly, there is no interation.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690202#Comment_3690202
No problem, don't cheat and you'll be fine!
Enjoy wasting your time then
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@ABAEX said:
what about survivor use jump tech flash tech?
Not an issue at all.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689848#Comment_3689848
Is like saying… they did a bad change, now let's make the same bad change to everything else.
That is a fallacy. Your example would not be a rule that the devs made.
SkyBilly's removal however was. Because the rule that techs are allowed to stay in the game as long as they aren't problematic by BHVR's standards, was directly contradicted without any reasoning that would warrant an exception to the rule. They did not consider it problematic themselves and they made no argument as for why an exception would be warranted anyway.
What are the "Bhvr standars"? They are not clear at all. My guess is that they didn't want to keep skyBilly bcs it doesn't fit the horror and serious theme of Dbd. I think anyone would laugh to see a guy with a chainsaw flying to the moon and keep doing it the whole match. Like I said before, it wasn't used for chase, so there wasn't an interaction between killer and surv. The lack of interaction and the goofiness were probably the casue of the removal of SkyBilly.
That is why they shouldn't remove these techs that are used for chases. You need practise to pull it off and to counter them. It adds complexity in the gameplay/interaction which makes the game more fun at high levels.
And please, avoid the argument "the devs made a choice, so there is nothing to discuss". From my post I made very clear that having all these techs make the game better. None of the current dbd tech are broken. The only 2 that might be maybe problematic are the V1 tech and the old Chucky flick. Other than that they are healthy for the game.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689696#Comment_3689696
One example for that was the removal of SkyBilly (Hillbilly's ability to traverse the map by using the chainsaw from an elevated position to get on top of obstacles, which redirect his momentum slightly upwards and allow him to traverse the map by "jumping" over obstacles rather than running around them). Instead of fixing what was actually broken to prevent him from clipping out of bounds, they completely changed his physics and added a variety of invisible walls that also limit Demogorgon's ability to increase the range of his shred, which is even hinted at in the loading screen. They even officially said they'd support SkyBilly as a tech a few years prior.
When they "fixed" SkyBilly it wasn't due to it having no counterplay, being too strong or whatever but simply because they no longer intended it to remain. Meaning, they removed it for the sake of removing an unintended feature.
Which is fine as long as they stay consistent with it. But I have an issue with it, if they don't because that's a double standard.
SkyBilly was mainly goofy thing to put a show and it wasn't used for chases, but I was also dissapointed of the removal of it. I don't agree the part that you said "they stay consistent with it". Is like saying… they did a bad change, now let's make the same bad change to everything else. So if anything, they shouldn't keep doing the same mistake.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689582#Comment_3689582
I agree but the devs set the precedence to remove techs for the sake of removing techs. If they don't follow through, then that is a clear case of double standards.
Explain more what you mean.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688993#Comment_3688993
This is actually true, but, you really want the ‘normal type of player’ that just came home from work, sit down on his chair, knows every spot, or have knowledge, about his tech, unless you train every day every hour with bilght, it’s actually impossible
Also, I’m going to compare my point with hug tech and crouch tech, both are really strong, and crouch tech for survivors are fun, but do you think is fun for the killer? Killers should know that survivors have a smaller hitbox when crouched? Crouch tech should be removed as well along with hug tech, and,one mod told us that the ptb is going to hapoen, and everthing could change, even hug tech becoming a 100% official thing, but, until then, it’s classified a bug, with crouch tech, that’s going to be removed soon
There are many things wrong in your comment. You say that "normal type of players" can't spend a lot of time learning. Which makes sense, but it also means that they are in the low and mid level. Same goes for the killer that they play against, in fact these types of players are less likely to find any killer that know their techs. What I'm trying to say is that the removal of the hug tech doesn't really affect the low level players. The high level players will find it less enjoyable/interesting in general. An expert/veteran player wants to show his skill to the opposite side. Learning these techs takes time and practise so removing them makes the game less interesting.
Like I said I have 5.5 k hours in Dbd so I want to discovere new ways to improve as killer and survivor. Ofc if something is op, then it should be fixed, but there are not op techs atm. I play Hillbilly a lot so I know how strong the crouch tech is, but I don't want to be removed. A survivor needs to understand when and where to do it, if not it doesn't work. At the high level we like complexity, it makes the game more fun for both sides. Even today during a 1v1 I managed to do a window tech against a Demo with bamboozle and it helped me to make the chase 2 mins longer. Complexiity push people to practise, practise create skills, skills create fun moments.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688925#Comment_3688925
Well, you can expect the player to be happy when he does an hug tech, but do not expect to see a smile face from the survivor POV, so it's not fun for everybody
Do you know how to dodge the hug tech? Bcs it is not so hard to dodge on a medium size loop.
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@Xernoton said:
Can we test it on the PTB first? It might not even be that impactful.
Also, other techs should be fixed as well. The devs have started fixing techs for the sake of fixing techs, so now they should follow through with it. That means any remaining killer and survivor techs, no matter how impactful should be nerfed as long as it doesn't create worse issues.
That will only make the game less intersting and it would remove many the holy s moments. Not to mention that would lower the skill ceiling for mid and especially high level players.
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@Rogue11 said:
They should fix Oni's flick exploit as well. Chucky had it on release and it was fixed in a few weeks. Oni players have been abusing it for years. Hopefully soon!
That's a terrible idea and it would make things worse in general.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688522#Comment_3688522
So did you report every Blight who did a Hug-tech?
Why didn't Blight get killswitched ever if it is such a problem?
That guy doesn't want share his own opinion. He constantly brings the "the devs said it is a bug, so it should be removed". Not open minded at all.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688387#Comment_3688387
An exploit is an exploit. It does not require a bannable offense to be in there. In no way is bans remotely tied to the definition of an exploit. You can make up your own definition all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that an exploit is abusing a bug for an advantage. A lot of exploits BHVR steps in and killswitches so players stop cheating with it, for example.
I can't even express how lose minded your opinion is. I told already at least 2 times to not looking at it black and white for a min. Read my arguments and tell what you think without bringiing what the devs said. They are not gods and you shouldn't be obidient to everything they say.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687991#Comment_3687991
No, but the devs are professional game designers, unlike your local blight enjoyer. Groups of people are frequently wrong about any given topic and sometimes experts know better regardless of popular sentiment.
Omg… Did you forget the Hud changes at the start? Did you forget the animations changes for survivors at the start? Did you forget that they tried to make healing 24 secs? Did you forget that they wanted to nerf both Engravins? Did you forget that they reworked Skull Merchat and still sucks? Did you forget how unfun they made Sadako to go against? Did you forget that they just changed Huntress base kit without barelly touching the add ons?????
Whatever you like or not, the devs are not these gods that we have listen. We customers have more knowledge in some aspects then a developer that has more generic knowledge that many times is based of statitics. I'm not saying that they ignorant, ofc not, but can just stop pretend that we have to listen to every single thing that they do or say? Stop kneeling and give your OWN view without briinging what the devs have said years ago.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
No thanks. It's an exploit that should've been removed a while ago.
Another black and white view.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687893#Comment_3687893
So the skill ceiling is using something thats not intended to gain unfair advantages? IThose are total one-sided mechanics, that just shouldnt existz. Stop defensing something thats not defendable.
You are the classic person with a black and white view. Stop for a minute using the "not intended" argument and try to understand what it gives at mid and especially high level games. Both sides have techs that make the game more interesting and only the better players can do.
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@mizark3 said:
In general I'm against bug abuse for advantage, but especially so for top tier Killers. If this type of bug were on Doctor, I would give it a pass, because he honestly needs way more help than BHVR gave him. These bugs are on Blight and Oni though. They are already way too strong for the effort needed to abuse their bugs. The problem with bugs for Survivor is that they can be used against Blights as well as Doctors. As such, I'm glad they actually plan on finally fixing this bug (but I need to see the actual effects to know for sure).
I agree that Oni flicks are really strong, but don't forget he has to earn power and the power is very limited. As an Oni main I can confirm there are so many loops in Dbd that an Oni without the flicks wouldn't be able reach the surv. The removal of the flicks would significantly make him weaker.
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@Chaosrider said:
Whats even intereseting in having to face something thats plainly unfair? Unintended techs just make the game more miserable. Thats it.
Removing techs will only make the game more "flat" and it will lower significantly the skill ceiling.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687844#Comment_3687844
The devs disagree. I totally get where you're coming from, but when the devs specifically say that it isn't cool, it's a problem, and that it will be fixed, then it needs to be fixed - and definitely not encouraged to be exploited against other players.
There are things that I don't agree with that BHVR claims. For example, I'm not a fan of the game being a 1 vs many individuals as opposed to a team vs team, but it is what it is, and we need to balance around their intention.
"We need to balance around their intention". No, we don't. Like what?? The community allowed the game become what it is now. So lets not pretend that they are these gods we have to follow. We are the customers and customers can disagree about the product. Stop kneeling to the devs and say what you really think is good or bad without involving what devs said. I said in my previous comment "try to not look it black and white and see my arguments for a min". Look my arguments and tell me what you think without bringing the devs.
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Ofc the devs can do whatever they want. I just said "try" to not look it blavk and white and see my arguments for a min.
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@Mag1cian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687518#Comment_3687518
The problem with hug itself is V1 mostly which you don't have a chance to counter, you physically can't react to it most if the times. If they somehow can get rid of V1 but keep core hug it's fine I guess but I doubt it as they connected to each other.
I didn't compare Nurse and Blight there, I only said about something broken, providing Nurse as an example.
Yes he is, that's what most of the Blight mains do, bump logic + experience and you still can destroy.
Billy was very skill dependent before buffs but now people can do a lot of mistakes and not getting punished for it, most of the players not even doing curves anymore and just abusing low k/d after miss with Thompsons' Mix and playing him as m1 killer which is sucks. LoPro on new Billy is OP btw, literally zero skill needed.I think we agree at this point. I understand why the V1 tech is seen as problematic, but the normal hug tech should stay. As someone that curves all the time I see the real challenge of Hillbilly. And yes, lopro is op. They should either remove it or making it Iri.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687529#Comment_3687529
I find filters cheating, as it bypasses intended gameplay choices of dark areas and such. The problem is, devs have no way to do anything about it since it's built into legitimate hardware. They don't have a choice but to okay it since there no way to actually detect or stop it. You're welcome to visit my YouTube channel. You'll notice I never run filters. It's lame and unfair against my opponents.
Not sure where crosshair concerns come in. It's not a shooter. Same boat, though. Back in the day, people would put a dot on their physical screen. One of those things that can't be enforced.
Bugs in the game code/engine itself though is very kuch detectable/fixable/enforceable.
Since they are a bug, all the arguments in my original post are irrelevant? Try to avoid seeing it black and white and read what arguments I gave.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687493#Comment_3687493
But you did a mistake here…
You were saying? You tried to call me out on a mistake about power, while being wrong…
So you talked just for talking instead for saying something. Sounds like a revenge response. Like I said before, you knew perfectly what I meant. I said "You can see the foot prints only when he is NOT using his power. Our debate was about his flicks which you can only do it while in power and I said that it is less enjoyable if you don't see the killer easily". Your response insinuated that the random foot prints around are relevant. No, they are not, so saying that there are foot prints around doesn't change my argument. So yes, it was a meticulous response from you.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687498#Comment_3687498
Agreed as long as they have been declared a bug by the devs.
You are an obedient and conformist person then. So you don't see filters or cross hairs as "cheating/give an unfair advantage"?
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@Mag1cian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687417#Comment_3687417
Because you can't compare survivor teches such as shift tech / window tech to Blight's Hug / V1 from which you constantly getting a value, it's a game changer. Oni flicks are not that hard and it's limited to his power, Wesker's hug tech is just for style points and pretty hard to do, when some of the Wesker's do that you actually impressed unlike every single time Blight doing it leaving you with no counter play. And even if it was hard to do, let's pretend Hug / V1 actually need some insane skill it's still not justifying getting guaranteed hits in most of the pallet loops. We have Nurse, she needs some practice and skill, after you master her you can stomp pubs easily with insane win rate, does it justifying her being broken? I don't think so. Blight is still gonna be strong as most of the blight mains who good with bump logic still gonna destroy, it's just now not everyone can abuse hug and getting ez hits in almost every loop. And to your Billy example, he was weak even if player is expert on him and he had perfect counterplay so nerfing his engravings was stupid and it was basically for no reason. Billy is way stronger now and not punished by mistakes. if Billy needed some skill back then I wouldn't say he is now.
You brought different things in your comment. First, I don't agree that Oni flicks are easy. To learn his flicks it took me a lot of practise and I'm not that consistent especially now that I play at 120 fps. Please avoid saying that it is hard because I'm not good with Oni. I've played Oni since his release.
Second, I agree and I understand your view about the hugtechs being very strong. In this case why remove it entirely? If anything make it at least weaker or more difficult to do.
Third, I disagree what you said about the Nurse. She is able to ignore pallets and windows while Blight has to follow the game rules. Me personally I consider the Nurse still too strong, but this is a different topic.
Fourth, I don't know about the Blight being able to destroy with the bump logic. There are still loops or walls that are too long in order to reach the survivors, it was possible with the pre nerf speed add ons, but now is unlikely.
Fifth, idk about Billy not needing skills… Yes, it is much easier now tha before, but you still need some weeks or months before you can master him. Lets not forget that with the base speed , survivorvs have enough time to react on mid size loops. It is difficult to dodge during the overdrive, but it also makes the killer way more difficult to controll.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
Less cheating the better, I say. Hard pill to swallow, but exploiting a bug for a game advantage is always lame. Fix those bugs.
That goes to all techs in the game then
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687442#Comment_3687442
You can see the foot prints only when he is NOT using his power
That's not true, his power just creates more foot prints around, but you can still see his foot prints when you would see other killers.
That is just an unecessary and meticulous response. You know perfectly what I meant.
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@o7o said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687342#Comment_3687342
There is skill expression behind it, Wesker's hug techs are even harder to pull off. The average pub player will obviously lose no matter what but good survivors know how to counter it. Against a good Blight, it's obviously going to be harder to counter. All it takes is playing safe and smart lol.
While we're at it, lets patch crouch and pluto teching. These 2 techs negate hitboxes.That's a good and fair argument, but in that case let's make it harder to do or weaker instead of removing it entirely.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687353#Comment_3687353
It is more entertaining to play against a killer that is visible and has a terror radius.
Because survivors like Blight so much, right?
that you barely see is not the best thing in the world
if you would be able to see the killer, you can see chucky foot prints through wall
I think most people like Blight base kit. People have an issue with his red add ons.
Yes, you can the foot prints, but lets be real… They are not that reliable and responsive all the time.
But you did a mistake here… You can see the foot prints only when he is NOT using his power. Our debate was about his flicks which you can only do it while in power and I said that it is less enjoyable if you don't see the killer easily. Like I said before, he can ignore god pallets, while Blight can't and he's also visible.
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@Mag1cian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687211#Comment_3687211
Lol, you said it yourself hug tech is ez to do and if you know about hug doing V1 even easier. Learning decent hug on shack for example needs some knowledge and practice but if we talk about most tiles Bligh who knows about this tech almost always guarantees hit on you there's literally no counter play, the only chance if you do a lucky guess, that's it. And if he has double speed / iri there's not a thing you can do. Shift tech is useless most of the time and only help you against m1 killers, window tech is meme tech, the only thing that is useful against ONLY 2 killers is crouch tech and it's only Demo, against buffed Billy you almost never use it cuz he is scary. Techs only should be used for style points, like hug on Wesker, it's very hard to do and if you see this you're like "Wow, he knows this tech" but it doesn't really have much impact while on Blight it's easy to do and it guarantees you hits almost in every tile and there's literally no counter play.
I said that it is easy, because compared to other tech like Oni or Wesker is easier, but obviously it takes some time to learn especially to master it. I don't understand why you repeated what I said to the survivors tech. I know that some killer are not affected by some techs.
Sorry, but I disagree totally about that there is no counter play. Ofc there some scenarios that is makes unavoidable, but maybe the reason why some Blights making it look like "navoidable" is maybe because they are skilled? I think they should make it a part of his base kit. Remeber when they tried to nerf Billy's engravings because some players were cracked? They ended up buffing significantly his base kit and making it him even stronger with add ons. Do you also know what they recently? They made the Billy's 180 easier to do, even though he has a one shot power. They did it because it makes the more interesting and fun for everybody.
Use the same logic even with Blight that doesn't have a one shot power.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687297#Comment_3687297
Yeah make the gameplay unfair because we allow people to abuse an exploit for long enough that guarantees unfair hits and downs for their own amusement at the cost of the other side having next to no way to deal with it. Sure it will be great! /s
If you abuse an unintentional feature that can significantly increases your chances of winning the game more easily which doesn't allow for mind gaming or any intentional counterplay to mitigate it's effectiveness, then it is unfair.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687306#Comment_3687306
Sorry but no, i don't respect people who abuse an exploit, who tries to excuse it's existence by calling it skill expression because it allows them to end chases more easily than what is intended and who also thinks it's something we should accept just because it's been in the game for so long now.
It doesn't matter how many copius argument people want to present in order to justify it's existence, it's an unintentional bug that tips the scale in the user's favor while screwing the other side over more, nothing more and nothing less, something even the devs realizes.
We are getting back to your point… You want every single tech to be removed from both sides. But like I said before it makes the game less interesting at mid and high levels. In this world people respect hard work rather than easy work, so I will stand to what I said… I respect a lot more losing to a Blight that knows these techs, rather than someone that use powerful add ons. It almost seems like you are looking it black and white. Is it a bug? Remove it immediatly, instead of seeing what it brings to the game.
I ask you to picture a chase against a Blight with no hug techs. You reach a pallet, drop it when the killer comes, camp or run around the pallet and then leave once he breaks it. With a Blight that knows how to hug tech you do the same, but you add the fact that you can leave the loop when he's trying to hugtech or can crouch tech to dodge the hit or to force him to break the pallet instead of you getting hit. I know that it is oversimplistic, but I hope you understand the point, which is that both sides have more option in chase making it more interesting.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687316#Comment_3687316
so just because he has additional aspects of his power, it's fine to have tech removed even tho he is overall weaker as a killer? I find some holes in that logic.
These aditional aspects are not small at all and give a huge advantage. It is true that Chucky is a bit weaker than Blight if you look the whole package, but if we look only base kits I would argue that they are almost the same. In this case we have to consider the survivor perspective. It is more entertaining to play against a killer that is visible and has a terror radius. When you get outplayed by something that you barely see is not the best thing in the world. That's partially why I don't find other killers techs problematic, bbecause you can see them do it and you can act on it.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687289#Comment_3687289
with this argument, how it works for Blight? He doesn't have strong basekit?
He does, but at least you can clearly see Blight and he plays like a normal M1 without his power. Chucky is able negate god pallets it even has third person which allows him to have a better view in chase and it makes the window tech useless.
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@Crowman said:
BHVR said a couple years ago that Hug Tech was a bug and they were going to fix it. The devs have already decided they don't want hug tech.
I understand, but I here to share my opinion on it. I don't like since it lowers the skill ceiling.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687255#Comment_3687255
In a game like DBD where the balance can easily be tipped from one side or the other depending on how much something from any side is buffed or nerfed, things like hugtech gives too much of an advantage to one side since if you're good enough to use it consistently, then the other won't being able to do anything about it, no counterplay nor any mindgaming to give a fighting chance against it.
Your comment has a really weak argument. "If you are good enough to use it consistently", you have to respect the dedication that someone puts on a character. When I lose against a Blight with double Iri add ons, I'm like "the add ons helped him win". When I lose against a Blight with no add ons, but knows all the tricks, I'm like "Oh god, this guy is cracked, he defently played a lot with this killer". I respect when someone is good for puting the time on it.
So it doesn't make sense when people say that something is problematic when you know how to do it. We should respect that they managed to come to that position instead.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687239#Comment_3687239
I would rather keep all techs and bring back Chuckie flick… It's more interesting for me.
But if they want to remove techs, then I would start with crouch tech.
Chucky flicks were interesting, but he has a really strong base kit already, so I'm fine about bringing it back, but they should nerf a little bit his base kit.
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@accessoire said:
In the new PTB you want to take away one "Bug" away from Blight that is seen by the general community not as a bug but as one of his strongest and best mechanics, the "Hug Tech".
I am strongly against this change and can give various reasons why it should stay.
1. It is not just a bug, and the community has long accepted it as a mechanic for him. Yeah, it was not intended when designing the killer, but that does not mean that it should be removed. This is especially true if you look at other killers with similar mechanics that don't get changed (Wesker) or when you have other Killer or Survivor techs in the game that are bugs but don't get changed (Shift Tech for Surv).
Yeah, those are bugs. But why should you not let the community discover the game and play it how they want to play it, discovering the quirks and rougher edges is often more fun than getting told exactly what you have to do.
Let me also remind you that the game at release was played very differently than it is played today, and one can imagine what would have happened if you had forced players back in the game how to play it.
2. You also write that you remove the Hug tech for a more consisted collision that is easier. What you fail to acknowledge though is that Blight is already consisted. The collision from objects work the same for every Blight, and things where you slide you slide and things where you bump you bump.
You can learn where what is the case and then consistently use it to your advantage as killer and as survivor. You can also learn how to manipulate this collision to use it better in chases.
This is difficult yes but if learned it is consistence in its own way and makes learning how to play the game more fun in the long run.
3. This brings us to the last point, the Skill expression. Blight is a strong but not an easy killer. Getting to know him on the maps where he bumps and slides is a large part of learning how to be effective with him, and a large part of the fun when playing him (and even playing against him). Taking the Hug Tech away is taking away the skill expression and fun one can have with the killer.
Solutions:
I would also offer some advice on what to do with the Killer and the Hug tech.
Games like Overwatch for example had an unintended movement mechanic with one of the supports, Mercy. Instead of just fixing this Bug, they implemented it as a feature, making it from a bug to a feature. If you want to go this route, you could for example make Blight always slide for the first 10% of a rush and then always make him bump. I feel this could be a nice compromise, although I am not sure how well it would actually work.
You could also just leave Blights core mechanics alone and instead focus on other parts of his kit that are still too strong. (Cooldown, Pallet Breaking, Iri Add-ons etc.)I 100% agree with you. I made a post about the same topic and I hope they listen the feedback.
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@Mysore said:
It's stupidly stupid for the blight to slide through the structures and the survivor to be unable to do anything. Hug tech has to be removed, period.
That's not true that survivors are unable to do anything (unless specificc scenarios).
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687239#Comment_3687239
I would rather keep all techs and bring back Chuckie flick… It's more interesting for me.
But if they want to remove techs, then I would start with crouch tech.
Chucky flick were interesting, but in his case it have been better to nerf slightly his base kit and keep the flicks rather than removing it and leaving the base kit untouched.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687237#Comment_3687237
Interesting for the person who performs the tech maybe, but unfair for the person who's on the receiving end.
So yes, you want all tech to be removed. I personally disagree. I prefer a game that allows a players to show different tricks/moves to show their dedication with a specific character.
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@VomitMommy said:
Time to start calling for removing crouch tech…
Or keep both of them, more instening gameplay overwhole.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687217#Comment_3687217
If it grants players an unfair advantage against the opposite player(s), then yes i do.
Then all techs should be removed acordning to you. It will only make the game less interesting and flat.
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@Smoe said:
I'm personally glad it's gone, it was genuinely annoying to go up against.
Do you also want them to remove other techs?
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@Mag1cian said:
"Blight hug techs are easy to pull of, but they are easy to dodge" in most of the tiles survivors don't have a chance to "dodge" it, especially if Blight knows about V1 tech. Bs thread
You missed my point that I gave in my post. "If the Blight knows the V1 tech" yeah, but how many Blights can do it? How long did it take to learn it? Even survivor have some techs that literally negate som killer powers or make easier to lose chase, like crouch tech or window tech. Let's not forget the shift tech which is insanely strong against certain killers. My point is that pulling off a tech show the player skil, dedication and it makes the game fun for both sides. Don't quote only half of a sentence and ignore everything else that I said.