mikewelk
mikewelk
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588990#Comment_3588990
You are good at avoiding answers, mainly because you don't have them...
I have listed two counter plays, tell me why they are not a counterplay.
You said all killers I listed has counterplay, tell me what counterplay Artist and Knight have.
I have listed 5 aspects that got worse, it's actually 6 (slowdown), you said other aspects got buffed, tell me what improved for her.
I like we established you are completely wrong about bloodlust. It's simple, when killer use power, they lose bloodlust. That's it.
You said those things, so back it up. Not really difficult if you are not wrong.
Her chase potential got buffed. The whole reason the three gen situation happened was mainly because people just had that gen pressure to rely on to win. Now that the gen pressure is gone, surely all the Skull Merchant players have left as well, right? No, because her chase got buffed thanks to the rework. How bizzare, right?
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@adsads123123123123 said:
3-5% isn't much for killer. The main difference is that survivors are 1/4 of the team while killer is 100% of the team. Killers are meant to be about x4 stronger than survivors.
I don't remember saying all killers need changes.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588995#Comment_3588995
Yeah, so you just can't back it up, I see...
counterplays you can use whilst in chase
I forgot it's not possible to crouch in a chase, right? Oh wait, it is.
https://youtu.be/98mgJ0OMvUY?t=1266
You can check how to play against her in this video. It's from PBT, but still works. I even put it with a timestamp for you...
I like how before you said "pre-dropping is such a good counter", when it's true about skull merchant too.
Yes, let me waste a perk slot on Nea's crouching perk and pray I have enough pallets to slow down the Skull Merchant and then get shouted at by my team as there are no pallets remaining.
Pre-dropping is not a counter to SM. Believe it or not, Skull Merchant gets her ability from people staying at loops, if you pre-drop and run away, why would she bother wasting time and breaking the pallet if she can go around? Her ability doesn't dissapear like Clown's bottles.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588989#Comment_3588989
The two things are separate- it's using your power that deactivates Bloodlust, and you don't get the Haste from setting down a drone straight away. I'm reasonably certain the new drones still have a slight activation period, and then the survivor has to be scanned by the rotating beam, so there's definitely a fairly noticeable window where the Skull Merchant has no extra speed at all if she's playing this way. If she's using Bloodlust, she can't be using her power, that's how it works for pretty much every killer- I think there's some who can do the readying/aiming portion of their power without losing Bloodlust, but the specifics escape me at the moment.
For Clown, sure, but that's not the argument that was being made initially. All you're really describing is why Skull Merchant would be better in chase than Clown, which isn't that unbelievable since he's on the weaker side. It doesn't demonstrate this being a problem at all, since setting the drone down at a loop only begins the dance around the beams, it doesn't automatically hinder the way it used to (with the purple hindering addon, that is). If counterplay is the concern, sure, Clown can't coat the entire loop in gas... because he just hits you with it. Dodging a Clown, especially at close range, is very difficult, so the counterplay lays elsewhere.
For leaving the loop, I'm thinking specifically of Artist and Knight, the two other killers who survivors tend to dislike because the counterplay to them using this strat is to just run away. When you do that, the killer isn't going to hit you straight away unless you run past them, which you probably don't need to do. It'd be the same flow for Skull Merchant: She sets a drone down at a loop -> you run in the opposite direction towards another loop during the animation -> rinse and repeat. It's kinda boring, but it doesn't force you to get hit, so your rundown of the situation is missing a very crucial explanation: How does the survivor get hit when they run away after the Skull Merchant hits M2?
I've edited my post about the bloodlust, thanks for the insight. Genuinely didn't know and don't want to spread false news.
The problem is that her ability can hinder and injure whilst also covering a larger range. Clown is deadly up close, you're definitely correct on that, especially with that iri add-on, but even that comes with -3 bottles. It's annoying when they have the aim of a God but just throwing bottles feels really stiff half the time.
Knight is quite a pain, I have to admit. There's that glitch where if you pre-drop a pallet, the guards go towards it instead of you so it's the only counter currently I can think of. Artist's counter is like Dredges, you just bait running into the crow so that they release it or just run into it and hope for the best. Artists also prefer to hit you and then finish you off with the crow if they can because it's more efficient as they might halter at the sight of the crow and, therefore, lose that speed boost from getting hit. When it comes to Skull Merchant, they tend to go in the middle of the loop so both escape points are gone and then place the drone, which leaves you with only mind-games in order to escape the loop. You can always hold W but you'll always eventually end up at a loop as they've caught up with you, if you kow what I mean.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588990#Comment_3588990
You are good at avoiding answers, mainly because you don't have them...
I have listed two counter plays, tell me why they are not a counterplay.
You said all killers I listed has counterplay, tell me what counterplay Artist and Knight have.
I have listed 5 aspects that got worse, it's actually 6 (slowdown), you said other aspects got buffed, tell me what improved for her.
I like we established you are completely wrong about bloodlust. It's simple, when killer use power, they lose bloodlust. That's it.
You said those things, so back it up. Not really difficult if you are not wrong.
I wanted counterplays you can use whilst in chase. Couldn't have made it any clearer with the context of the discussion. Until you provide those, I won't waste my time.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588961#Comment_3588961
So crouching to ignore her drones completely is not good enough counterplay.
So disarming her drone without any downside is not good enoughc counterplay.
All the killers you listed have counterplay which is the funniest part.
So above is not counterplay, then tell me. What counterplay does Knight, or Artist have?
Let's get more quotes from your post, sounds fun.
you can get a health state taken off for participating in a core mechanic of the game - looping. Sure, the killer needs a strong ability but this doesn't take any thought to achieve. There's no skill to it.
So wanna talk about Trapper? When you get downed...
Btw all the time you talk about deploying drones in chase, which means she doesn't have bloodlust, so kinda doesn't make sense that whole table of stacking her power with bloodlust...
10% hindered is obscene.
Can we remove that and give her pallet breaking again? Wouldn't mind...
The killer has bloodlust and 3% haste from your tracker.
Unless she deployed drone before chase and you run into it, she doesn't...
So again what other than stealth got better? Shouldn't be hard to make a list, like I did for you...
Everything except her stealth is worse. Whatever you try to bring, there is bigger nerf next to it.
This entire discussion has a focus on a survivor being CHASED by the Skull Merchant. Not in general, just chase. Please just read.
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@jesterkind said:
There's a couple things wrong with this post, that I noticed. I've not got much experience with new Skull Merchant, but there's some critical flaws in your reasoning here.
First, there are a few instances of trying to claim that a survivor has to deal with Bloodlust, the Haste from her power, and her Undetectable, but those things don't stack. If she's using her power, she doesn't have Bloodlust, and if the power's already set down it still takes fifteen seconds to reach even tier one of Bloodlust. For the kind of argument you're making, Bloodlust should be somewhat irrelevant; if the SM is using her power mid-loop, she cannot have Bloodlust.
Second, you make the claim that 10% Hindered is an obscene thing for someone who also gains Haste to have access to, but Clown has a much more easily applied 15% Hindered with much easier to apply Haste to boot, and it's clearly not a problem on him. You talk about Wesker, but his 8% Hindered is both not the strongest part of his kit, and a penalty for not taking care of his status effect, it's not something that's actually meant to help in the average chase with him- that's what Virulent Bound is for. Skull Merchant and Clown, though, primarily use that Hindered, as far as I can tell for SM anyway.
Third, I'm not sure why you're claiming a survivor leaving the loop is necessarily going to lose a health state every time they try to. That isn't the case for the other killers that force survivors to leave the loop, and I don't see why it would be for SM.
Fourth and finally, when you say that Skull Merchant gets tons of DCs and that's a clear indicator something's wrong, you have to understand that people are not approaching Skull Merchant neutrally. They are approaching Skull Merchant as a killer that has been widely hated for both legitimate and illegitimate reasons since she came out- in some people's cases, since her trailer dropped. She is a loathed killer for reasons that often border on irrational, and that is why she gets DCs at such a higher rate than other killers.
See this is what I wanted, an actual argument. Thank you.
Does bloodlust replace the haste or does haste replace bloodlust?
For Clown, his ability is just potions that hinder 15%. The range is smaller than the drone and he only has four bottles. This is why pre-dropping is such a good counter for him. The potions don't injure survivors or force them to get hit a lot unless he accompanies those potions with mind-games, made far more effective due to the blurry screen. That takes certain skills to get higher MMR survivors in a bad place. If he even wants haste from the bottles, he has to swap them and that takes a while. He cannot just press m2 at a loop and have the entire thing covered with his potion. Also, his gen pressure is pretty bad. Skull Merchant's drones just being there provide a lot as survivors need to crouch over there or disable them. I understand Skull Merchant needing the hindered but I was thinking more alongside the lines of 7% maximum. When it comes to Wesker, you cannot take care of his status effect when you're in chase, hence why I mentioned it.
Survivors can very rarely be forced to leave a loop. It might be ideal, but they aren't at risk of going down at the same loop so they just stay and get hit because they can juice it out. If you stay at a loop with Skull Merchant, it is a death sentence. What killers are you trying to mention here?
I don't really believe the last point is true. Most people DC'd to Nurse and Blight for several reasons, among them being the add-ons and how good some people were with Nurse. I understand its not always that, but it is a main reason.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588955#Comment_3588955
they got buffed in different areas
What other than stealth got better?
New issues came about due to the camping being solved.
What issues?
Again, read the discussion instead of seeing the words 'Skull Merchant' and replying with questions I've already answered.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588950#Comment_3588950
Am I calling for her to be deleted? Not at all.
She is a flawed killer in every aspect and I myself would like her deleted out of the game.
Oh, right...
Just because she is weaker doesn't mean the problems dissapear.
What specific problems? You have to leave loop when she uses her power? That's what you don't like?
- Trapper
- Artist
- Dredge
- Singularity
- Knight
I could probably claim same thing about even more killers, but good enough.
Only fact is you don't enjoy playing against her. That doesn't mean she has problems.
Literally read my discussion before commenting. The problem is that there's no counterplay, unless you can name any. All the killers you listed have counterplay which is the funniest part.
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@VomitMommy said:
That's lot of effort just to want her to be deleted... So much work for this post, just to discard it with one sentence. No ideas, just rant.
She is still weaker than used to be.
- less information
- less movement speed bonus
- worse chase (pallet breaking gone)
- worse area denial (you can ignore her drones)
- most of her addons are really bad
only thing that improved is stealth, but that was nerfed with her addon rework, so no more infinite stealth for her. Still better, or at least to use than used to be tho.
Goal of her rework was to remove 1 hour games, which it did for sure. While she is still viable killer, buffs between PTB and live saved her a lot. So I consider that a success.
You didn't enjoy her before, you don't enjoy her now. Doesn't seem like a loss to me.
Also why are we comparing the old and the new. They are quiite different in some cases. Sure, they did get weaker in some areas, but they got buffed in different areas. New issues came about due to the camping being solved. If they made Skull Merchant games cause all survivors to spawn on hook, would you argue that solving camping justifies it?
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@VomitMommy said:
That's lot of effort just to want her to be deleted... So much work for this post, just to discard it with one sentence. No ideas, just rant.
She is still weaker than used to be.
- less information
- less movement speed bonus
- worse chase (pallet breaking gone)
- worse area denial (you can ignore her drones)
- most of her addons are really bad
only thing that improved is stealth, but that was nerfed with her addon rework, so no more infinite stealth for her. Still better, or at least to use than used to be tho.
Goal of her rework was to remove 1 hour games, which it did for sure. While she is still viable killer, buffs between PTB and live saved her a lot. So I consider that a success.
You didn't enjoy her before, you don't enjoy her now. Doesn't seem like a loss to me.
I'm only being honest about how I see things. Am I calling for her to be deleted? Not at all. An opinion doesn't invalidate an argument, you tend to put forth your opinion often. Just because she is weaker doesn't mean the problems dissapear. Call this whatever you want but its all factual. You can argue about it or you can simply rely on the whole idea of her being weaker as your argument eventhough it doesn't address any issues listed.
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By 'need some changes' are you inferring about nerfs or both nerfs and buffs?
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@pizzavessel15 said:
there shouldnt be a penalty for tunneling. there should be a reward for not. an example is grim embrace basekit
We're talking about tunneling right when the game starts, not tunneling after a gen or more gets completed. It's neither fun to experience or do for both parties. Sure you can reward not tunneling, but most people playing like that have 2,000+ hours and don't need extra rewards. They wouldn't care.
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Also, survivors shouldn't rely on a Decisive Strike buff to come in order to counter such a strategy that causes people to stop enjoying the game. We know it isn't coming anytime soon for whatever reason and so we need to find alternatives like this. A singular perk shouldn't be the only thing to counter such a common and cheap 'strategy'.
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This is actually a solid idea. I would agree that the haste is a little too much and the values need adjusting but the core idea is really good. Thanks for sharing it here, hope the devs notice.
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@duygu said:
ill never understand when people argue against literal strategies and say 'it takes 0 skill' as if that matters. survivor takes 0 skill in repairing generators from the beginning, i think survivors should find the killer and start getting chased asap because that takes more skill. or if they have totem spots memorized they should use that knowledge to find and hunt down dull totems because that takes more skill.
what do you expect the killer to do besides chase the first and most vulnerable target they see. run around patrolling unoccupied generators like a bad AI would thinking this applies the magical strategy of 'map pressure'?
But when they take chase they are called toxic and have too much of an ego if they don't jump right into the killer's arms, right?
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Dull Merchant. I tend to take a nap mid-game and that messes me up SO bad smh.
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Chess Merchant is such a interactive killer to face! What the heck guys! SkIlL iSsUe!
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586981#Comment_3586981
Sure, but both needs lockers. Dredge needs them more, so you can feel it more. UW will often make you go out of your way to activate it, not much usually but it will.
I would make a nerf for Ultimate weapon, but nothing major really. Basically to reduce effectivness for fast killers like Oni, so probably reduce duration for each scream or something like that. I wouldn't really try to nerf it for normal killers.
Screaming will always be worse than aura reveal.
UW is going to help you find next chase, but it's never going to give you free hit like aura reading does. Screaming is information for both sides and it's short duration, so survivors are going to relocate before you get there and always prerun from you.
Yeah you need to go out of your way to activate the perk, but this time is greatly exaggerated. If it takes more than ten seconds, that's just a bad decision by the killer and will inconvenience them, obviously. Dredge struggles with locked lockers, true, but the game rewards too much points for the survivors to resist for simply locking them.
I don't really see how you even could nerf a perk like that so it only affects major killers but I agree, they shouldn't nerf it to the ground like MfT. Just a minor change would suffice.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585539#Comment_3585539
Try to play like 10 games as Dredge, that will display it better.
I should play one killer out of a selection of 30 (?) killers to notice that opening a locker is a big inconvenience that can make you lose an entire game...? We are talking about a perk, not a specific killer.
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Every PC Oni player I go against can do double that 'cap' almost every game. Thought it was normal...
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I saw lots of arguments against it in previous threads. Clearly you paid no attention or turned a blind eye to them. To invalidate those opinions to paint an image that it is just survivors crying isn't something new here and it's what you're actively doing.
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Particles...?
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Dull Merchants seem to have taken his place. Stopped playing after getting her in my first two games today and took a nap since it was that boring. Not even kidding.
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@Crowman said:
You literally know when the killer spots your general location with the perk. They don't know where you go from the general location which you can use to your advantage.
Not to mention checking a locker is often time not a simple task a killer can do on a time crunch.
I don't remember having to sweat bullets to open a locker that is usually nearby a location I'm heading to any way...
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Absolutely no reason to not have it. People on here preach about accessibility and this does help. I personally prefer controller but I understand why others don't.
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Was it endgame...?
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You should be fine. If the Feng didn't have any recordings, then BHVR won't do anything because they can't prove that you did team. They really like to have evidence of it.
Like genuinely just chill, it happens more often than you think.
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I don't think anyone enjoys versing her. They either purposely run into her or just DC. She actually has a passive ability now called "The Snoozefest" which is self-explanatory.
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They're too busy making backpacks! Let them breathe! 😡😡😡
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@please_explain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583389#Comment_3583389
Exactly my point you could not help yourself but try to taunt me at the end of your reply. Now I know for sure you're not as innocent as you make it out to be lmao.
Yes because you're acting as if every survivor is the same. There's nothing on the forum more hilarious than that. You know people like you are the reason I remain on the forum because it's really entertaining to witness. I'm not taunting, I'm just showing how I feel about silly assumptions made out of nothing.
Run me a list of what's toxic to a killer main and I promise I haven't done any of them unless you make up some "doesn't loop the killer" bs. Keep assuming stuff and it'll bite back at you eventually. Stop being pessimistic.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583400#Comment_3583400
How exactly is saying that a game needs to be balanced is dishonest, you are literally strawmaning this by making stuff I didnt say because you don't have the mental capacity to even put an argument.
@Ink_Eyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3578591#Comment_3578591
Amazing how some survivor players can't deal with a perk or add on that makes the killer somewhat good, they just want it instantly nerfed, but killer mains had to deal with dead hard and other perks for years without a nerf...
^^^ That's your 'argument' btw. Just seems like you forgot. :)
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@gnehehe said:
You move asap to next game using your own way/strategy (same with the stupid Hag btw)
True, Hags are also something else...
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583413#Comment_3583413
I've been having the opposite happen where matches can end so quickly, none of the survivors get over 10k BPs. Typically ease up abit to let them recover abit in those cases.
No point easing up, you're only making it a snoozefest tbh. Let them go next if it's a guaranteed 4k for you. Games like that drag on tbh.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583397#Comment_3583397
Didn't realize long matches were still an issue for the current iteration of SM
They are shorter than before but the boredom remains. Snoozefest 24/7.
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Oh man! I really hope they DOn't kill-switch her!
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583399#Comment_3583399
Don't DC. Just don't put in the effort if you wanna leave asap. "Oh no, I happened to run right into her... for the third time... such a shame"
Now we're talking business 🤑🤑🤑
Sounds perfect to me.
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@Zraith said:
just leave asap, that's what I usually do if it looks like a length match for nothing
But the DC penalty 😔
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Thanks for creating this dicussion. It's unbelieveable that people are defending specific add-ons that are undeniably busted, but that's normal over here.
@Ink_Eyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3578591#Comment_3578591
Amazing how some survivor players can't deal with a perk or add on that makes the killer somewhat good, they just want it instantly nerfed, but killer mains had to deal with dead hard and other perks for years without a nerf...
"somewhat good" made me chuckle btw. These add-ons have also existed for quite an extensive amount of time.
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@please_explain said:
More than sure you were toxic to the Oni in some way and taunted him, killers don't go out of their way to be scumbags for no reason. I'm most positive you T-bagged him or something or emoted at him after a pallet stun. I know very well survivors can't help themselves but be toxic to new or inexperienced killers for that ego boost. So how about you tell us the entire story and give us a reason why the Oni was hitting you on hook.
Didn't do anything considered toxic, unless pallet saving/looping is now toxic. Didn't tea-bag, didn't taunt in any way, didn't emote at a pallet, etc. I played by the killer handbook I guess. I just don't like toxicity in general because I know how it feels on the receiving end. But yeah, okay, my bad. They were a streamer as well with quite a large following so definitely not inexperienced.
This is pretty funny though, thanks for the chuckle.
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Sweeping it under the rug, I suppose. It's what they did with vaults for a while.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3582283#Comment_3582283
Resilience doesn't increase vault distance, just vault speed. Just because you got used to timings with female vaults giving less distance than a medium doesn't mean that's the new status quo. Vaults have worked this way for years, then BHVR "fixed" them by tripling distance gain, then broke them, then finally fixed them again.
It was very obviously satire. Calm down.
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@dbdthegame said:
Did I miss a hotfix or something? Are 3 meter vaults back?
Multiplied by 9 because of Resilience... 😡
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Yes, they were indeed fixed. This isn't a partial fix, it's a complete fix, so I don't know what you're trying to get at when you put it in speech marks. If you fix something, you put it back into its original and intended state. Vaults were NOT meant to be like that for so long that killers got used to the bug, or whatever caused it, that they feel justified to start complaining that they don't have that unfair advantage.
Also are you seriously complaining about Resilience? It does bascially nothing against high ping killers (which show up in most lobbies) as they can hit you after you've literally cleared the vault. Please expand on what you're trying to get at because I don't see it.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3582019#Comment_3582019
You have no idea what are you talking about
just because no one use the character means we can’t complain?
And no, everyone is playing her, she is more common than wraith now
And you probably couldn’t explain how to counter her, since she just press m2, do not lose any distance, and still get hit
Her speed variety was supposed to help her in chases when her power wasn’t chase based, now she has a chase power, this speeds variety doesn’t belong into her
Exactly, if I get her one more time on Hawkins I'm going to have to take a break. Such a snoozefest.
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Exactly, and VPNs are probably on sale right now for Black Friday...
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@okaayletsgoo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3578533#Comment_3578533
Some people forget play with your food is a thing but when killer is way too fast on first chase with no stacks then it's obvious there's something going on.
I had Save the Best For Last. I got falsely accused of hacking for running a perk and the survivor experiencing a skill issue against a M1 killer.
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@OrangeBear said:
If you mean the most recent sale, the halloween sale, nearly all outfits minus a few new collections were 30% off. But yeah outfits always have a permanent 10% discount so the sale was just an additional 20% reduction.
If you mean the stranger things cosmetics, the last chance sale 2 years ago. They had all stranger thing stuff off for 50% off.
Thanks! I did mean the most recent sale because it'll hopefully happen for Christmas again.
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There's also a lot of people accusing killers of hacking as well for no reason...