konchok
konchok
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- konchok
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I think he's fun to play against. He doesn't seem that strong to me but it's always a bit difficult to gauge killer strength because it's hard to differentiate killer power level verses player skill.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2294958#Comment_2294958
That's not what people use it for, nor what is a problem with the perk. The problem is using it for distance, which has no counter.
You don't need to have a counter to everything in this game. That's entitled speaking. They brought a perk to be able to use it, if they use it to gain distance than that's fine and that alone doesn't make it OP.
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@BingBongMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2282336#Comment_2282336
Plus they can't even crawl through windows. They'll just stare longingly at the survivor through it instead.
I would love for them to change zombies so that they could navigate through windows with an animation and everything!
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They will once they've pushed out a patch that resolves the worst of the crashes. Until then we will all just have to deal with the players that have their new found DC powers.
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Gen rush is seriously the silliest thing I've ever heard of, I even had a game yesterday where the survivors brought me to Ormond, and brought 2 BNPs and had the first gen done before I could get to the generator with Blight. And you know what, that's the only generator they got done.
You can't just win this game by completing gens quickly. The games that I lose tend to be against 4 solid survivors that don't make mistakes. Survivors without a weak link in the group is way more impactful than a group that's out to rush generators.
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What rank are you?
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I would rather face Sprint boosts, etc. any other exhaustion perk anytime 24/7 rather than this. I see it every single game on at least 2 survivors (usualy 3+) and I am sick of it. The ammout of time I outplay someone on a loop or they made a mistake and just press E to say "haha no" is ridicilous.
I am not saying 100% nerf it but I just want to express it so annoying and "unfair" perk that sets your good play outcome to 0. Yes, it is useless when they are in the open, but other than that, it is extremely powerfull.
"Oh but latency makes it bad", yea? Then why I see it every single game on every single survivor?
I just wanted to express that I am sick of this perk and it is frustraiting and super-unfun to go againts.
I'm sick and tired of people referring to button presses to discuss video games. Every action in a video game uses a button. You could just as easily say, Hold M1 and wildly swing your mouse to land hits as killer.
The survivor who is using dead hard isn't just pressing E randomly, they need to time it if they are trying to avoid a hit, if they're going to a pallet they need to also time it correctly so that they're positioned correctly to throw the pallet, and sometimes they need to bait out a hit such as turning 180 and running right at the killer. There is quite a bit of skill expression with dead hard.
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What OP is saying is that there is a strategy that doesn't require you to play well that will guarantee at a minimum a 2k. I wouldn't use this as an example of why killers are OP, but rather why there is a core issue with some killers around hooks. Specifically Bubba, Huntress, and Hag.
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@GeneralV said:
The game is survivor sided at the highest level of play, something the Depip Squad proved years ago.
However, most trials have nothing to do with the highest level.
The depip squad is not a valid argument. These guys are a competitive squad, they're playing whatever random person they come across online and rarely verse anyone near their skill.
If that's evidence suggesting that survivors are stronger than killer, than Otzdarva getting 50 game winstreak on nearly every killer is evidence that the game is actually killer sided.
So you see your argument is flawed, because both of these things can't be true, yet the evidence is the same is it not?
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@WishIcouldmain said:
We know that the game is survivor sided when it's top tier survivors. But, the majority of the game is casual with non-competitive survivors who crouch in corners and hide in lockers. So when there's low tier survivors this game can go for killers. Why I believe the game isn't as one-sided as everyone makes it out to be
I actually disagree with this point. I watch quite a few competitive games and in comp matches, and it seems to me that at a really high level the game is actually balanced with no side really being at an advantage or disadvantage.
Now I know that the response is that only a few killers are played at high ranks, and while that's true, keep in mind that comp is always going to lean towards the perceived strongest killers because that's what competitive means, they're trying to use and abuse every mechanic and that means that there will always be preferred killers.
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@CapricornZeus3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2291198#Comment_2291198
Why? The grind is impossible already, if anything all the perks should have some sort of BP gain
Perks that have BP gain associated to them prevent the devs from reducing the grind because then the already inflated BP gain with BBQ would be even worse.
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@CapricornZeus3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2289997#Comment_2289997
Does 100% more BP ring a bell, half the people here couldn't care less about the second effect
BBQ would still be used without the BP bonus. And in my opinion the BP bonus is what should be removed from the perk. I don't think BP gain should be tied to perks.
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@Northener1907 said:
What are you thinking? What is reason of rates? Lets discuss.
Killers are so op? Maps are unfair? Generators are slow? Survivors are bad? Killers are so good? Or something else?
Did I miss something, what stats are you referencing. Is it something that is recent or something from months back?
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I haven't seen anyone run this perk. It doesn't seem that oppressive to me, I will say that I was really enjoying running it on Blight, but I was using it mostly for the novelty because there are so few perks that actually work with Blight's rush.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
I don’t use gen regression on high mobility killers as it is. Survivors can’t do gens laying on their stomachs.
I am interested in Hysteria though. This is one of those perks you don’t see as killer but makes a difference.
I was running Hysteria all day yesterday on my Blight. Hysteria has consistent value. Removing the terror radius on the person you're chasing opens up mind games that just aren't usually possible.
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It's honestly a weak but addicting perk. I think the only killers that can get enough value from it for it to be worth it are Billy and Plague. But even then I just feel like Whispers is just way better.
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There is not a killer right now that is incredibly weak. The weakest killers right now, Pig and Trapper were Mid tier killers just a year ago.
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@woundcowboy said:
Well, as a consistent rank 1 survivor, i can say that this feels great. I usually have competent teammates and we are beating killers that we would never have beat using the old rank system.
This is what I've noticed too as a rank 1 killer. I feel like I'm getting more games where individually strong solo queue survivors are all being matched together to verse me. I've seen quite a few games where all 4 players were rank 1 and I don't think that they were a swf.
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The biggest issue with MMR right now is that a killer who mains Ghost Face and is the best Ghost Face but doesn't play Pig usually will now have a separate MMR for Pig and Ghostface. If no MMR exists it will assign them the lowest possible MMR skill when they play Pig. However, if someone is the best Ghost Face in the world, they're probably pretty darn good with Pig. And as a low MMR player you're being put up against this supposedly low MMR killer.
That's why I suggested that for killer (not survivor) the MMR system should put you at an average MMR level by default. If you really are a new player it does mean your very first game is going to be against difficult survivors, but you'll lose horribly and your MMR will drop drastically. After just a few games your MMR will be set correctly.
Let's use the example from above. The literal best Ghost Face will then verse a group of average survivors on their first match. The survivors will have enough experience to have a decent match, sure they'll get steam rolled. But at least the killer isn't matched with baby survivors. And after a few matches he'll be playing red ranks anyway. So it won't be a big deal.
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I would make it so that victor cannot get downs on his own, he can only head grab.
To compensate the time it takes to get Victor off the head is increased slightly, Survivors who have Victor on their head are hindered, and while attached to the head Charlotte will get a 10 percent speed buff, Victor's aura is always visible to Charlotte.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Is that median value derived from the MMR of a Players other characters? Or just every Killer start at a median value? (This would punish new Players)
New players are punished more by having high skill killers who haven't played a killer jump into the role and absolutely destroy them. Yes there would be a game or two where new players would verse opponents who were a bit better than them, but that's way better than them versing opponents with thousands of hours.
Though I do think that a median value of all killers could also work.
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I started the experiment with solid survivors but the more I won the worse the teams versing me became.
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@tester said:
This is how my games go today. Feels bad.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LEPQ9JXCP1RA/dbd-otz.jpg
Yeah, it's a bit odd. Early in the testing the MMR worked like a dream and I was getting so many solid survivors that absolutely rocked me. And then, it just stopped. And I started to get groups just like what you see, and the more I won the more I saw groups like yours. I would love to understand why. I want my sweaty swfs back :(
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I initially thought the test was going so well. When I started out all I was getting were really solid survivors. I'm rank 1 and usually just destroy groups and I was having a ball going up against groups that were better than me. Then it just stopped. and I'd go up against group after group of rank 14s, what in the world happened.
I get that rank doesn't equal skill, but I can tell you that these low ranks were low ranks. It's like they had no defenses at all.
Why would ranks get worse rather than better?
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YAOPACWVFHVO/potatoes.jpg
Poor noobs :(
*Sad Chainsaw Noises*
It's not fair to judge MMR on a single match. Play 5 matches with the cannibal and show us a screenshot of the end game results.
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@Kaimick said:
Just dropped $140.00 on the game and was fun at first but getting out ranked every game by 15 to 18 levels is getting to the point of not even wanting to play the game. But I am sure that BEHAVIOUR doesn't really care they got my money at this point.
Kaimick, most killers really only play 2 or 3 different killers. It's not that they don't want to play more, it's just that they don't want to be severely mismatched. With this new match making, it means that they can play killers that they wouldn't usually play. And that means that it takes a few games to properly set their rank. I'm a rank 1 killer, and when I did this match making, it took this MMR system 6 games before it put me verses red ranks survivors.
That's actually amazing. Now if you only play each killer once and you don't let the MMR system figure out the rank, then yeah it's going to be pretty bad.
And for you who's a low rank, basically you're the guinea pig that the match making algorithm uses to determine if someone is actually a rank 20 or not. So, if you do decide to play for the next 48 hours I guarantee your matches are going to be the most frustrating thing ever. But know that this is just growing pains and the system does work and you won't be playing verses those killers for long.
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This current test has been a huge success for me. With my main, I got teams that really pushed me, which is a new feeling for me and one that I really like. I actually don't like getting super easy games, I like games where I feel either side could win, it's high tension and I really have to work to be on point.
And when I played a killer that I hadn't played in about 9 months, the Oni. Sure my first game was against rank 20s, but it only took 6 games to go up against a solid group of red rank survivors who all happened to be rank 2s.
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I never play with Oni, but I used to play him all the time, so I am decent with him.
- rank 20s and rank 19s
- rank 17
- rank 12
- mixed rank average 9
- mixed rank average 6
- rank 2s
In six games it properly set my rank with a killer that the rank system had no information about prior. I'm actually very impressed.
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From what I can tell, when it works, it works and when it doesn't, it really doesn't. It's kinda surprising that there is so much variance. But honestly I feel like whatever problems there are can be worked out and I'd like to see it go live personally.
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@aliquis said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R5JPWDXLRH70/bhvr.png
Exploit the system? This mmr matches me consistently against complete beginners with my main killer (rank1 billy that i play a lot). First time today i even played several people with 0 hours. I slugged my way through countless lobbies today, no change in the matchmaking.
For some reason, god knows why, this mmr seems to think it is good to match me against 4 beginner survivor every game (all games end very quick in 4ks, most with 0 gens done)
I think the MMR takes into consideration how many chases you go on. If you're using your chainsaw I don't feel it judges you correctly. From what I can tell it's an issue with billy and canibal. Try playing a few games without using the chainsaw to get downs and see if the matchmaking improves.
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I noticed that the one MMR that seemed really off when Otz was testing was his cannibal. I wonder if the insta-downs are impacting the MMR.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2255663#Comment_2255663
Dead by Daylight is all about Player agency, i.e. choice. Both roles are filled by Players, not Bots. It is true that the DEV have Perks that encourage you to move away from the hook and those that would make Tunneling risky. However, for every Perk that they have that which seems to downplay those tactics, they have others which encourage it. You are suffering from confirmation bias and not looking at the big picture. There are Killers who seem specifically designed to Camp and Tunnel too. Perks are optional choices (that agency again) and cannot be used as a measure in regards to what the DEV want or intend. The only thing that gives us a clear picture is the basic mechanics without any Perks at all. And as I already pointed out, the game itself wants rescues to be risky. It makes sure the Killer knows when you unhook, and even gives that visual cue just in case you have gotten busy and turned around.
So let's talk about this fact a bit more, put it in full context. The DEV could have made it so it isn't as obvious. In other words, it might simply show on the HUD, the way it tells you if someone has been healed or not. They could have even put in a time delay so you aren't certain when that unhook happened. They did the opposite. They ring a DINNER BELL, make it impossible for the Killer not to know "SURVIVORS HERE!" I know I repeat that a lot, to the point of redundancy, but there is a point. I'm going to get to it now:
- Rescuing a Survivor adds one more person back to doing Generators, a huge advantage to Survivors toward their objective.
- Rescuing a Survivor means another Survivor that may in turn rescue you, another huge advantage to the Survivor side.
- Rescuing a Survivor undoes all the work the Killer did to get that hook.
- Rescuing a Survivor EARNS the Survivor doing it Emblem Advancement.
- Rescuing a Survivor EARNS the Survivor Blood Points.
I could go on for another few entries actually, probably pass ten clear positives, but these above are the big ones. There is no downside, only positives to rescuing your teammates. Many Survivors have forgotten that this is a 4v1 and each person that dies significantly reduces your chances of getting out. Every person you save, significantly decreases the chance the Killer can achieve his/her objective. The DEV understand this and because you get so much REWARD for unhooks, the DEV have to make that reward come at a risk. That is why they notify the Killer. Because of Player Agency, they don't know for a fact that the Killer will return to the hook, but they want that to be a high probability option. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Thus, many people seem to work under the INCORRECT assumption that Camping and Tunneling are undesirable side-effects, when they are in fact simply part of the game (and to a degree an intended part).
Returning to Player Agency, let's play Devil's Advocate and talk about what would happen if the DEV did manhandle things and somehow force both Camping and Tunneling out of the game. These are the consequences that WOULD immediately follow:
- Survivors would start abusing the limitation for a competitive edge. This is 100% certain because it happened in every case where the DEV tested this in the past. Even the most minor constraint was quickly weaponized by the Survivors who would utilize someone hooked as a penalizing zone of protection. It was so bad the DEV stopped trying entirely. Consider how bad that must have been.
- You would no longer get any Blood Points or Emblem advancement Altruism regarding rescues. Why should you get rewarded for something that is a given, an act that has no risk? You are already rewarded by getting the person off the hook and back on Generators, giving Blood Points or Emblem advancement beyond that would be a "free lunch" and would have to be discontinued.
- The game would get boring very quickly. Without the potential for camping (honeypot traps) and tunneling for strategic pressure, the only thing left is Looping and Hide & Seek. The Killer has no Agency at this point. They can search for you and they can chase you. The choice of whom chase will have been taken from them as will have been the option to defend or guard. That means the game is now just a ritualistic chase, a forgone conclusion of circling terrain and basic mind games that all good Players learn. I don't know if you are old enough to remember video games like Pac Man, but that is the kind of repetitive pattern play we are talking about. It would be Pac Man with better graphics. Frustrating or not, Camping and Tunneling are the only agency options which prevent that.
- You would lose Killers because nobody wants to be a glorified Bot. Players who take on the role of Killer want just as much agency as those who take on the role of Survivor. One of the reasons Dead by Daylight is successful is because it engages the mind. Taking away options would make it less engaging for the side with fewer choices and would lose us players for that role. Since there are not Bots to take their place, the entire system bogs down as Queues get longer and longer.
I could give you a lot more of these too, but these are the biggest ones. You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. You can't have a game like Dead by Daylight, one with a sense of urgency and dread, without there being the constant fear, stress, and frustration. The game is often described as a frustration engine. That is true, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Horror movies are the same thing, a long stressful experience where the outcome is always in doubt. In the end, it doesn't matter if the protagonists get out alive or not, because it was about the journey (the rollercoaster ride) of your emotions while the struggle continued. Long story short (probably too late for that) but the very tactics people curse and complain about are what make this game work.
You got into a tangent that is unrelated to the topic being discussed here. This is not a topic about whether or not you should be able to camp or tunnel, but rather a topic about which perks are currently encouraging camping and tunneling. I stated why they end up encouraging those actions and suggested that they be changed.
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I used to think no, but I realize now that that was because I just didn't know better. She's the first killer I played. And when she was new people didn't know she was strong. I took a liking to her and learned killer through her. So when people were saying that she was problematic, all I could see was ways that I could personally get countered by survivors and felt that my personal flaws was evidence that she was balanced. But I realize now that she has some fundamental problems to her kit.
I still love her dearly and hope that the changes that are made to her don't gut her or change her identity as a killer. But I do feel that versing her should reward your skill as survivor.
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I'm personally a fan of the chase killers with good mobility. So, Oni, Blight, and Billy are my go to.
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I feel like my enjoyment is directly related to am I better or worse than the killer. If I'm better, awesome. If I'm worse, well that sucks. Though Freddy before he got nerfed was super boring and it was annoying to lose to a killer that I could tell was not very good at looping.
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@KingFrost said:
How to Counter Spirit:
Step 1: Play Trapper, Wraith, Hillbilly, Nurse, Hag, Doctor, Huntress, Myers, Bubba, Freddy, Pig, Clown, Spirit herself, Legion, Plague, Ghostface, Best Dog Demo, Oni, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Blight, Twins, Trickster or Nemesis.
Step 2: You are now safe from Spirit killing you. Get countered!
How to counter Spirit.
- Play Spirit. If you can't beat them join them.
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@Moundshroud said:
Don't be silly. You want to know what REALLY encourages returning to the hook? It is that big old DINNER BELL... audible and visual cue the game gives the Killer when you unhook. It is almost as if they WANT your rescues to come with risk. Duh.
You're right there are base mechanics that encourage going back to the hook. However, generally perks are designed to get you to move away. Examples are BBQ or Pop Goes the Weasel which encourage you to leave the hook and still benefit the killer. I was just saying that I personally believe that perks that lean into camping or tunneling or inadvertently lead to camping or tunneling should get looked at to improve game health.
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I don't think it should destroy pallets, but I do think pallets should remain blocked until the hex is broken.
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There are, but there aren't any objectively good plays. It's not like you're invisible, you just don't have a terror radius.
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Poor killer mains, getting blocked in a corner by bad survivor. If only there was a button that the killer could press that would remove the collision.
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It can't be immediately bannable, because people can leave a VPN on by mistake. But yes, if it's happening repeatedly then I think it should be bannable personally.
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@Arial said:
perks like make your choice, devour hope and deathbound are often considered toxic, but they give killers an extra incentive not to camp by adding the effects only after the survivors are far away. Also how is coming back to an unhooked survivor toxic? That seems like an inherent risk on the survivor side, and an expected behavior on the killer side. Killers are supposed to be working against the survivors, you know.
I never said it was toxic. I said that going back to the hook but preventing the unhooker from protecting the unhooked leads to tunneling. Note that I did not even say that tunneling is toxic. I understand that it's behavior that stems from a core mechanic in the game, I just don't feel that perks should increase the likely hood that a killer will camp or tunnel.
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@CoalTower said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2251261#Comment_2251261
Not true. You could just walk and she has nothing.
If you're walking you're not making distance. She still has the ability to prevent you from making it to a window or point of safety with her ability even without sound. I'm not saying that she'd be perfect, she may need other changes but I don't think it would be a bad change.
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@CoalTower said:
The first one is a buff. Blood will show her exactly where you are. That's not a guess. And making her deaf or making sounds non directional would kill her.
Just bring the sound bug back with her and she's fixed.
I think making her deaf wouldn't necessarily kill her, it would just force her to make a read/prediction and she still has scratch marks.
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I don't know why people get so upset when survivors aren't "afraid". This game has no potential of actual physical harm. Of course survivors aren't going to be terrified.
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@Laluzi said:
...Make Your Choice doesn't promote tunneling. You just exposed the unhooker for sixty seconds. Why would you go after the injured person who may have DS, BT, or an exhaustion perk, when you can take two health states off the unhooker, bypass Dead Hard, and the unhooked player has to spend time healing if left alone when this guy doesn't? Yeah, the killer will return to the hook, but they're not interested in the unhooked player unless they're right in front of them. The only way MYC promotes tunneling is when the unhooker gets spooked and runs the hell away, leaving the injured survivor to fend for themselves, and that's not exactly the killer's fault, is it?
Killers using NOED to camp would be camping without NOED. It is literally the only thing the killer can do at that stage of the game beyond 'give up and let survivors exit peacefully.' There are no more objectives for the killer to defend; hounding a downed or hooked survivor to try and pick off rescuers is the only actual thing they can do to further their goal. Honestly, hard camping the hook with NOED encourages the other survivors to cleanse NOED or just leave.
And half of the perks you've listed are never, ever used by anyone, so I don't understand why you're raising a problem with them. NOED, Insidious, and MYC are the only ones on this list that see the light of day. Furtive Chase and Monstrous Shrine are some of the bottom-of-the-barrel worst killer perks in existence. What would even be the point of changing them to be less campy when nobody uses them to camp to begin with?
I guess I don't see the problem with perks that encourage the killer to return to the hook for some reason, because killers are already encouraged to return to the hook if they don't know where anyone is or don't have a more pressing engagement. There's two survivors there, guaranteed, and at least one is vulnerable. You aren't going to get rid of that no matter what perks you axe - I would argue perks like Make Your Choice and Furtive Chase (along with Borrowed Time) are healthy for encouraging the killer to go after the unhooker instead of smacking down the already injured person again.
Coming back to the hook is strong as a base mechanic, it shouldn't have additional benefits in the form or perks. Perks should encourage healthy gameplay and offer the killer rewards for playing in that way. These perks try and fail by offering benefits for going after the unhooker, but they ultimately end up encouraging tunneling.
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@FFirebrandd said:
Weird take that Make Your Choice promotes Tunneling.
Like... it literally incentivizes the Killer to go after the Rescuer not the Rescuee by exposing them. Why would you not take the 2 health states for 1 hit if you could?
The reason why it encourages tunneling is because the rescuer is generally responsible for protecting the unhooked. But the perk makes the rescuer vulnerable and it encourages the killer to come back to the hook.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
You are obviously forgetting the strongest, most oppressive, unfun and unfair tunneling perk there is: territorial imperative
Territorial imperative only works if you're at least 32 meters away from the basement, but it probably could use with a rework.
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My thoughts on it is that as a competitive gamer I will take actions that are the best strategic choice. That doesn't mean that I go into a match to camp or tunnel, but when that becomes the obvious best play it's the one I'm going to take.
Now I also feel that BHVR needs to introduce base mechanics that don't put me into the position where I have to play badly to give other survivors a good game. There are ways to change the base mechanics to incentivize healthy gameplay.
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Add a new tier of perk. Make it pink and have it be for perks where you skip tier 1 and 2. It wouldn't be in every bloodweb, but when it would it would save you 2 bloodwebs. I think that would go a long way to reduce grind without destroying the blood economy.