konchok
konchok
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200343#Comment_2200343
'It doesn't matter if there is a way to counter these strategies if the group that needs the assistance against these strategies will never see them.'
So, basically, you want the tactics removed, even though you KNOW there are ways to counter them, because new players will be too lazy to look up ways to counter them?
Basically 'Remove camping, because learning how to play is too hard'?
And your claims of people leaving because 'boo-hoo, camping is so mean and Killers should be forced to be nice!' is just as much bunk as my claim.
Actually, your claim is MORE bunk, because the game has survived 5 years with camping, tunneling, and slugging. And common sense would dictate that, should you remove three of a Killer players tools in any way Survivors can benefit from or worse, ABUSE; people won't want to play Killer any more.
I mean, unless you're just ignoring the longer queue times for Survivors right now? You know, caused by Killers leaving because their role, the POWER ROLE, is being given the middle finger in repeated updates until just recently?
An easily abusable strategy should be easily counterable by survivors. All I want is for there to be an equal amount of work and skill required for both survivor and killer. Camping requires high level team work from survivors to overcome right now.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200276#Comment_2200276
They are valid tactics, and every idea suggested by salty survivors has either been abuseable, made out of pure spite, or would remove so much Killer player agency that it would basically give Survivors free, unearned unhooks & cost Killers the game for things now outside their control.
Then Killers would leave because there's no point in playing a game that forces you to play sub-optimally to avoid hurting your opponent's feelings, and Survivor queues would double.
The Survivors who whinged about 'toxic camping' would then sit on their thumbs, wondering why the game died, because they are having a great time with their easy escapes & free unhooks.
The problem with camping is actively hurting the game from adoption because tunnelling and camping is much more common at lower ranks. People are leaving early and this is happening now, the damage is real and is happening now.
It doesn't matter if there is a way to counter these strategies if the group that needs the assistance against these strategies will never see them.
And your claims of mass exodus of killers has no supporting evidence and is purely anecdotal.
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The question asked is which is your favorite and effect wise devour hope is definitely the coolest, but I rarely run it because with Blight Hex Ruin is just so much better.
So while Hex Ruin is the perk I actually run , Devour hope is still my favorite.
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@Kirkylad said:
Ah yes the daily camping and tunnelling post right on schedule. 🙄
Maybe it's right on schedule because it's a very real problem that isn't being addressed.
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@Kirkylad said:
Otzdarva did a really good video recently about all the perks he went up against as killer within a certain time frame. I can't remember what it was called but it was really good and it split them up as well between ranks and what perks certain ranks are more likely to use.
I understand that certain ranks use perks more so than other ranks and I don't want that to change. I just want perks that see no use at all to get some use.
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Blight tag downs are one of my favorite things
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@GannTM said:
No Mither is actually OP.
How could I have been so blind
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I actually really love the obsession mechanic and would love to see these perks buffed just a bit because with the exception of STBFL, they are all really mediocre and some of them are entirely pointless like dead man's switch and furtive chase.
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A more useful statistic would be for the individuals running the perk, in what percentage of the games played does the perk activate. The reality is that a single perk has less to do with escaping then how well you play, but the reason you bring a perk is to use the perk. So after the changes is the perk being used?
I'll give another example as to exactly how worthless these statistics are. I think this perk lacks a control case. The control case would be in games that have no DS what is the escape rate, if it's also 49 percent that would suggest that the question being answered isn't a question worth being asked because perks are largely not responsible for game outcomes. That's not to say that perks are worthless but rather it's how a player uses a perk and also fails to use a perk.
A strong player will be able to effectively use a perk to escape, a weak player won't be able to utilize a perk regardless of it's overall strength.
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Is eating a decisive even toxic? Now I can see going out of your way to tunnel someone out of the game. But many survivors with DS go out of there way to get chased to use DS, is it then toxic to eat it and then immediately down them again?
-unashamed Blight main
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I think that the common consensus is that having all 4 survivors slugged and bleed out is the number 1 thing that is problematic with slugging. With that in mind, I think it should follow that if all survivors are slugged then just like end game collapse the entity sacrifices them then and there. This is somewhat problematic with certian perks but those are small details and can be worked out on a case by case basis.
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@gentacle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2199517#Comment_2199517
this is just legion with extra steps
As long as Victor is the one downing survivors the optimal strategy will be to slug. While I agree that there's similarities to legion, I don't feel like it would play or even feel like legion at all. And like I said before charlotte would have a larger base attack lunge that she can use to get hits, similar to wraith when he uncloaks.
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What I would like to see for the Twins is to have it so that Victor no longer gains the ability to down survivors. Every attack with Victor would be a head grab.
"Well," I hear you say. "Victor would be worthless.".
And to that I say, that if that was the only change then yes. But to counter the nerf there would be other changes.
-Victor applies a hindered effect to the survivor. (Side effect of making all vaults medium speed vaults)
-When Victor is attached to a survivors head, he has a 32 meter terror radius (This is useful for mind games)
-The aura of Victor is always visible
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Charlotte should also be changed so that she's not just an M1 killer without Victor.
If she has victor inside her, she can have victor pounce from her body.
When victor is on someone, she has an extended lunge, equal to that of coupe de grace and it stacks with coupe de grace if the perk is equipped.
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I'll put it this way. I played with 4 other players. We were all ranks 1 - 5 as both killer and survivor. We all played each other with our favorite killer, in every game the killer won. We were on comms and brought in strong items. (But nothing crazy like overloaded medkits, keys, or BNP)
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Yes. He. Can. And what does it matter if there's a window, the blight can hit you if you try to go through it.
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Yes, I do feel that Blight has overtaken Spirit and Nurse. Blight can land shots without exploits now that are more powerful than the bug fix that they removed. He has the best mobility, best lethality, and has few counters than either spirit or nurse. There's no difference between the lack of counterplay survivors have to a good nurse and survivors have to a good blight.
Blight has lethality that's on par with nurse with much better mobility
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2180184#Comment_2180184
Can he ignore all objects such as windows and pallets and walls ? Na then he's not the best. Can he go invisible and give you no clue what's going on with no counter play ? Is he third best with some counter play ? Yes
What difference is there between going through walls and being able to get a hit at every loop. There isn't. With blight it doesn't matter what you're using to protect yourself any longer he can get around it and hit you. There is no longer any counterplay at all to Blight.
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I can't play with it yet, but I've been watching a streamer play with the changes to Blight and honestly Blight has been buffed. He may now be the strongest killer in DBD. Blight went from S tier to S+ tier
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@MadLordJack said:
Best news I've seen all week. Now certain Blight mains are going to have to learn to play the killer.
Only Blight mains who abused him. I've never adjusted my DPI so he should play the exact same. I'll play him tonight and see, but I don't think he should be any different for me.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2176989#Comment_2176989
That's the tricky part. Removing breathing audio and giving some other, more complicated way of tracking survivors maybe. Messing with her movement when phasing, maybe speeding her up but making her more difficult to control.
I would say make it so that audio cannot be heard while phasing. Increase her speed to Mother Daughter Ring levels (remove all add-ons that increase her speed) And heavily reduce how long she can phase (the total distance traveled should be roughly where it is now) Add-ons that increase phasing only barely increase phasing time. This would give her a more aggressive higher skill curve while maintaining her current power level.
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It's really how the killers are played, but I will say that specific killers attract a certain kind of player. And the killers that attract my least favorite kind of players are Bubba, Hag, and Ghostface.
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I think that a system that allows killers or swfs to opt into harder games for extra bloodpoints can fix alot of the problems that you're bringing up.
This is how it would work, it would be an offering that you can only get after you P3 a character. when used the bloodpoints earned for all survivors is double and killer is double.
Survivor: The offering is only valid for survivor if you're in a SWF of any size. You will only be matched with killers that of the same rank tier as your highest level survivor. (You may need to wait longer for a game, but the extra bloodpoints should make the wait well worth it)
Killer: The offering increases the likely hood that you'll go verses a SWF.
Matchmaking will prioritize putting these 2 groups together if possible.
This would mean that the killers and survivors are both willing participants and properly reward each side. It would stand to reason that new killers would avoid an offering that would increase the likelyhood of a SWF while the Bloodpoints would incentivize strong killers to run the offering.
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Now I know that there's a major flaw to this idea and that is that you burn offerings after matchmaking has already happened. I'm not sure how to fix this, but just ignore that specific plot hole when giving feedback to this idea. I know that with the way that offerings work it wouldn't actually work.
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@Babawizwiz said:
Because this game has poor balancing and will always favor swfs
Explain to me why 4 survivors who each probably have more hours than this guy should lose to him. This game is heavily killer sided, it's just that he's going against 4 players who are better than him. He's even admitted to using cheap tactic to secure kills that he couldn't get through chases. This is the rant of someone who's in over their head at their current rank and feels entitled to win regardless. Sorry but not sorry, killers aren't entitled to wins. I'm saying this as a rank 1 killer, where I am feeling the opposite frustration. It's way to easy to win as killer and because it's so much harder for survivors it's become super rare to go up against a team worth versing.
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@Lord_Tony said:
and playing killer against SWF is hell.
seems like the only solution is to remove SWF or nerf SWF and both solo and killers will be happy
I only have fun against SWFs. Please don't nerf SWFs and take any enjoyment that I have for this game away from me.
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@Hektic3000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2167095#Comment_2167095
I will say that true legit face camping sucks and doesn't have a place in the game but proxy camping and hoping for a hook trade is just fine. I'm all for both sides interacting with one another, but until I'm not forced to bring perks to make up for how fast gens can go by you just can't get rid of camping or tunneling. As someone that plays killer mostly with some survivor on the side, while watching lots of steamers play survivor, win or lose most killers never rub it in the face of the other 4 players. The same can't be said for survivors who will, win or lose, always have something to say to the killer about how they played. Survivors can absolutely be some of the most cocky, stubborn, and just petty people i've seen in gaming in general.
The difference is that Killers can use tactics that require no skill, such as face camping, and get some measure of success from it. Survivors have to play well to do well. A flashlight save, pallet save, CJ tech, 5 gen looping. These are the things that trigger killers and they're all incredibly hard to pull off. Camping basement with bubba is not some anything special.
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Using perks to fix flaws in core game design is an issue and what actually gets abused as pre-nerfed DS shows. So rather than sticking your head in the sand like an osterich, you should learn to have an actual discussion.
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I've thought about this a bit and the only way that I see tunneling going away is if trying to go after just one survivor and ignoring the rest was a guaranteed way to lose.
The way I could see it working is to rework how generators work. If I was a balancing dev this is what I would do. (This is a bulk suggestion meaning that it would all have to go in, you can't cherry pick the parts you want or don't want)
- Decrease the amount of time it takes to complete a generator by 10 seconds.
- Remove all generator regression perks
- Make corrupt intervention base kit
- Make Thanatophobia base kit, increase Survivors' Repairing speed penalty to 10 percent for each person injured.(and remove effects on other actions, such as cleansing /sabo)
- Kicking a generator causes an automatic 5 percent regression on that generator
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What's the reasoning behind these changes. Basically this, with these changes. If you camp or tunnel the generators will get done so quickly that'll it'll be a guaranteed loss. It becomes much more important to spread damage as 3 healthy survivors will blow away generators so quickly that tunneling/ camping will cost you the game. Inversely if you do spread damage than you'll have more time to get generators done and as killer you can run chase perks instead of generator regression perks. Make the game more chase focused and less focused on tunneling/camping.
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Billy is still a high tier killer. The reason he's hardly seen is that he's harder to play, not that he's weak. Nurse and Blight are both fairly uncommon despite both being S tier and that's because they're hard to play. Billy is A tier, but just as hard to play. But I feel like the bigger issue isn't how strong he is, but how much easier equally strong killers are. Why play Billy when you can play Bubba. He's a bit stronger than Billy and way easier to play. Honestly I feel that Billy is fine, if anything I feel that Bubba should be changed to require a bit more skill to play. HIs overall strength is fine but he's too damn easy to play.
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I feel like BHVR has been improving the overall survivor experience with the recent change to moris and the soon to change skill check mechanic on hooks. This means fewer cheezy wins. I feel like they need to know where the balance is once these are gone. I personally believe that once these changes are made, if survivor escape rates remain low than BHVR needs to look at making changes to the overall balance of the game.
It is also my opinion that BHVR needs to make changes to killers and perks that remove some of the more underhanded strategies. Reworking insidious, making changes to Freddy or BT to stop him from forcefully removing BTs endurance effect, rework DS again or make a base kit anti tunneling mechanic.
The game's balance issues are only really obvious at high ranks. Before getting to high ranks both killers and survivors play sub optimally and you can win simply by playing more skillfully. However, skill has diminishing returns at high ranks and the mechanics play more of a role in wins and losses and I agree that at the highest ranks, if survivors and killer both play well the killer is at an advantage.
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De Ja Vu, Can't even take advantage of indoor gens as killer. How am I supposed to not get gen rushed when the survivors know where my gens are?
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@SilentHillOnDvD said:
You're playing against bad survivors. Show me gameplay of you easily 12 hooking a team of 4 really good survivors because you know, it's so easy.
The problem with this statement is the very nature of it moves the goal post. Let's say that someone takes you up on your offer and beats 4 red ranks, you would simply respond with. Well those red ranks were bad survivors and I can point out all the mistakes they made so that doesn't count. Even if you then take it further and show 4 rank 1 survivors, let's say you rake them over the coals and they depip. You would just claim they weren't even rank 1 to begin with.
In addition to this, your win condition is literally the most extreme example of a win condition, which is to get 12 hooks. Is that the standard you hold yourself to when you play killer? If you get any less than 12 hooks do you consider that a loss?
You are a shining example of what it means to have cognitive bias. If you give me a very specific definition of a video that would change your mind, I'll upload that video.
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I find it odd that slugging is so uncommon. As a killer I will often slug with the intention of saving a generator from popping. I never intend to pick up the slugged survivor and expect the group to pick-up. It's a trade off that I'm making. I give up a hook to try to get everyone off of gens (I'll do this when ruin is active) I'll also slug if a situation arises where every alive survivor is injured and near each other. But it's a very short term thing, I either get everyone down and finish the game or I start picking up slugs. I will never slug for a 4k unless you are literally right next to me as I downed the second to last survivor.
How often do I slug as killer, every game. How often do I get slugged as survivor, basically never.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2079654#Comment_2079654
Yeah survivor would escape more at low ranks and the game would lose any killer player getting stomped for the first 20 hours because all killer are on nurse difficulty, great idea.
You would get put at a rank that's appropriate for your skill level.
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@Kirkylad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2079667#Comment_2079667
I only play solo survivor and I still find that much more enjoyable than playing killer. If killer was so easy way more people would be playing and I wouldn't have to wait 10 mins to get a match as survivor.
Playing killer is a single player game. Think about that for 10 seconds. How many single player games can you think of on Steam, tons right. How many games can you play with your friends. Not many, right. That's the allure of playing survivor. But what's the allure of playing killer? It has nothing to do with how easy or hard killer is, it has everything to do with the fact that humans are social and half of this game is not.
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@Kirkylad said:
If that's true why do the majority of players mostly play survivor and the amount of killers has been declining.
because people like to play with their friends. And killer is honestly more complicated. More complicated is not the same as harder. Playing killer is easier to win than survivor, the stats make that clear, but there's more to playing killer than survivor.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2079085#Comment_2079085
Their statistics reveal that Nurse is in dire need of buffs. Does she need to be buffed? Answer honestly.
They only reason killers have a high kill rate is due to the fact that most survivors, including myself, are terrible at the game. Players being bad at the game is no reason to dumb it down. The developers have even stated not to try to make too much out of the statistics that they released.
You're just bad at the game. Thank God you're not a developer, otherwise the game would be dead.
I would argue that the stats show that Nurse, Blight and Plague are the only killers that are properly balanced. Which is to say that they're the only killers that actually reward skill with kills. There's no doubt that Nurse, Blight and Plague are strong, but if a killer is dominating with those killers they deserve the win. It means nothing to dominate with Freddy, Doctor, or Leatherface. And that's 100 percent the problem with this game, the killers are too easy to use. We need more killers like Nurse, Blight, and Plague that actually reward skill. And a side effect would mean more survivor escapes at lower ranks and more survivor deaths at higher ranks vs SWFs.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072610#Comment_2072610
I wonder if spirits stand still mindgame would be considered a tech or a exploit since her shards are supposed to glow when phasing but skins cover it up. That or its just not considered either.
I've never heard in any documentation that her shards are supposed to light up. I would argue that using the fact that her shards do light up to your advantage would be the tech/exploit.
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I feel that with the change killers will risk eating a DS because so few survivors run it. I also feel that what survivors need is something basekit to discourage tunneling off of hook rather than relying on DS.
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I really hate people who use whataboutisms. If you have a problem with kek-tech create a forum discussion with just kek-tech. There's no need to bring up j flicks.
What you're actually trying to do is create a situation where when j flicks are removed you get to complain that BHVR is survivor sided because they haven't removed kek tech. It's so obviously transparent and it annoys me to no end.
And when you create that forum post, I will call you out on that #########.
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I haven't been using the exploit and I've been consistently at rank 1 since blight has come out. The exploits reduce how difficult Blight is to play and that's a problem. Blight is a strong skillful killer and you are advocating removing the skill required to play with Blight. That just turns him into Freddy. No thank you, I want to earn my kills and I want survivors to be able to skillfully play verses me. That's what makes playing as and against Blight fun. And it's annoying as all hell to have these whiny Blight exploiters calling me a bad Blight because I don't abuse a literally broken mechanic. You should feel shame not pride for abusing exploits. You're at the same level as a survivor who thinks their hot ######### for taking advantage of gap that they can fit through and the killer can't which turns that "exploit" into an infinite. Yes, that is just a mechanic, and yes that sometimes does happen in game, if you take advantage of it you're scummy in my eyes.
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073247#Comment_2073247
then why did it get fixed?
are we even talking about the same thing?
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073203#Comment_2073203
Then why isnt fatigue cancel a tech by swinging at the right time it plays the swing animation which cancels the fatigue animation. It is intended that you can swing and takes advantage of that to cancel the animation.
Swinging to cancel the animation is mechanical and not a bug. It may have initially been unintended and some parts of it were changed compared to the PTB, but swinging to cancel the animation is intended behavior.
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J flicking is an exploit not a tech. I consider a tech as taking advantage of game mechanics to make a play. An exploit is taking advantage of a bug to gain an advantage.
Survivors get exploits too. Taking advantage of a location that you can run through as survivor but the killer cannot to make an infinite is an exploit not a tech.
Turning your DPI to insane levels to flick Blight past what is intended is an exploit. This isn't rocket science.
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@FregglesFred said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1872225#Comment_1872225
Survivor main has been spotted.
Seriously though, Windows counter him so much. The fact that you're asking for the worst addon in the game to be base kit is the dumbest thing I've heard to fix a killer. This isn't fixing.
Rank 1 with Blight and Spirit. 5000 lethal rush hits, which is in the top 30 total lethal rush hits for any blight. But going after a user when they bring up a point you don't like is called Ad Hominem and it's not a valid argument, try another.
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@FregglesFred said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1867469#Comment_1867469
I hate when people ask questions, y'know? It's just like.. Y'know? Man, people just don't understand bubba, y'know? Tried talking on the forums about how Tofu doesn't go against good survivors, and it just doesn't go good, y'know?
No offense to Tofu, but he really doesn't go against good survivors. Potato survivors. I cannot watch his content. Every two seconds is yknow. The guy has a point.
You said Speed Limiter should be base kit. That would make him even worse than Clown. VERY worse.
I also said that he would need to have other changes to his kit to make it work. His ability to instadown groups with 1 shot is incredibly powerful and it is too rewarding for how little skill is involved. Removing the 1 shot, but maybe granting an additional token or other changes could make him a more interestingly designed killer.
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Infectious Fright, Corrupt Intervention, Coulraphobia, Nurse's Calling.
I haven't tried it out, but here's my thinking about it. Corrupt Intervention is early game pressure as you start working on injuring survivors and breaking early pallets. It keeps the survivors fairly close together early game to allow you to get value from infectious fright, if someone tries to pick up, coulraphobia and nurse's should help you to protect the downed survivor. While Sloppy would generally be considered a better choice than Coulraphobia, it's not consistent enough on Blight due to roughly half of your hits being lethal hits.
I will say this, this is a high risk build. You are going to lose generators and the best strategy to counter is to split up and work generators. If they force you to 12 hook, you've lost.
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I did an experiment where I ran Blight perkless. Started the test at rank 8. I got all the way to rank 4 before the survivors were too good to consistently beat. And how did I get all the way to rank 4 with no perks no add-ons as killer. You guessed it, I did everything I could to injure all survivors and then I would try to snowball win into a 4k slug. It's such an effective tactic that I was able to do this all the way to rank 4 with 0 slow-down.
If that doesn't tell you how powerful slugging is for killer, I don't know what does. I will also say it's high risk, high reward. It's not easy to actually pull off a 4 man slug.
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Honestly it sounds like you were boosted to red ranks because of using ruin undying. I'd recommend switching to another build as soon as rank reset hits and allowing yourself get ranked appropriately without ruin undying, if you use ruin/undying after rank reset, you're going to be deranked to the rank that you belong the hard way when February comes around.
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I think the topic should be rephrased. Rather than what killers camp the most, it should be which killers have powers that promote camping, and how do they rank.
- Hag - if you're not putting a trap near the hook you're playing her wrong
- Twins - if you're not putting charlotte next to a hook or slugged survivor you're playing them wrong
- Bubba - If you're not taking advantage of situations where multiple survivors are together, such as when they're healing under hook or unhooking you're playing Bubba sub-optimally. Many Bubbas don't play this way, but it's mostly to avoid his soiled reputation rather than them playing optimally.
- Trapper - Trappers will generally trap loops, but really they'll trap anything they can take advantage of. If you're in the basement that basement is going on lock-down
- Billy - An insta-down ability means that if you can find survivors in a compromised position you can one down them, and then slug as many as possible, maybe even get a 4k right then and there. What more compromising situation is there then when you're trying to save a hooked survivor.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1869509#Comment_1869509
No... please don't tell me :D ???
You seem like a good dude. This perk was updated in the last PTB and there are patch notes from that update about the changes.