jesterkind
jesterkind
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@Babadook83 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3014779#Comment_3014779
what do you mean? so the perk only activates when the killer sees you, and vice versa you see the killer.. which makes the perk totally useless?
Sure, except now it lets you know to actively start looking since you know the killer can see you. Additionally, if it's a stealth killer, you're gonna have fewer cues to start looking without Spine Chill.
It's obviously weaker now. It was always going to be because it always needed to be. But it still has a use.
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I don't see how. It now has a speciality; it's an anti-stealth perk.
Additionally, the LoS restriction means you'll know if the killer is actually looking at you instead of just approaching or in the general vicinity.
It was a perk that did too much already, I may not love the direction they went in but it clearly still has a use.
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...You won't need as many bloodpoints to get your addons if you're not scouring the bloodwebs for the perks that you want, though?
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They want it to be run less frequently. On top of giving survivors basekit anti-tunnel, that'll mean nerfing DS so it's not obnoxious when paired with the new mechanics.
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That's my only concern, too- 80 seconds of Endurance in the end game is a lot, and might be pretty obnoxious to deal with.
Though, on the flip side, it looks like fewer matches are actually going to get to the endgame, so maybe it won't be that big of a problem?
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I think the buffs on the survivor side are going to help solo queue enough to balance out, personally. Not having to rely on your random teammates bringing BT/not farming you is going to be a huge boost all on its own, never mind the neat perk changes.
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It's only a buff if you're using it properly. There'll be no more lunges to reach a pallet or window that the killer can't do anything about, because now the survivor actually has to time their use with the killer's swing, which means that the killer has some kind of counterplay to it; they can now actually bait it out.
It saving a survivor from a mindgame isn't that big of a deal when put into the wider context of it basically doing nothing else and killers getting faster action speed across the board, at least in my opinion. It's okay for perks to help survivors not go down in chase, generally, and the new version of Dead Hard looks like it's a much more fair and balanced example.
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Well, on the flipside, the changes to the rest of the game mean that you're probably not going to be relying on endgame kills as much, right? It's going to be easier to actually prevent the gates from being powered with all these changes going forward, so it's probably fine that endgame kills are going to be harder.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3014398#Comment_3014398
Like I thought there'd be at least one change I'd hate but I really don't. I thought a lot of changes would be kinda meh and a couple are, like coulrophobia. But only a couple. Kinda speechless as well tbh
Agreed. I was fully expecting at least one monster, or one perk that's just made completely useless, and I really don't think that's here- maybe Self-Care, but even then, that's one of the most run survivor perks of all time, if that gets knocked into uselessness that's still mostly healthy for the game.
This looks so good, I cannot wait to test it all!
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I like all of these changes, actually- some I don't think were necessarily the best they could be, but I also don't think any are actually, purely bad. The only one I'm even wary of is Off The Record since I imagine it'll mostly be used to bodyblock, but even then, it can only do that twice in a trial, so that's probably fine.
And the basekit changes, my god, I'm speechless. It all looks incredible.
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I'm slightly nervous about the changes to more "essential" perks like BT/DS, and slowdown on the killer side. That'll depend on the base game changes, so... wait and see.
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Ooh, this is tough...
If skins count, give Hillbilly a Kanaya Maryam legendary skin.
If not, make Trapper's bear traps spawn in the centre of the map trending towards him, don't let them spawn all the way across the map anymore.
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Ichorous Loam.
The artwork looks like a spilled barrel of dirt, to help you keep an eye out for it.
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I have two things I'd want to see, one of which is probably way less attainable than the other;
1: More trap killers. I wrote up a power concept myself a little while ago for a killer that places traps on walls, that both deal damage as they're triggered but also can't be walked through for a little while afterwards, but I'd really be happy with any killer that actually has a focus on placing traps, like Hag and Trapper.
2: A killer whose power is almost exclusively that they can project their terror radius in the direction of their choice. Think of the wacky plays you could make with terror radius based perks...
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012789#Comment_3012789
Ah no hunt has visible mmr and it is not a competitive game. Mmr can be switched invisible for any user in hunt so steamers, players can play without it being in there face. Those who want to know what there in for have a right to know what there mmr is at so they dont waltz into a higher tier game with the crapper,clown etc.
The argument that it makes the experiance awful is absolute nonesense since in games like hunt despite having clearly powerful meta weapons the community is encouraged to experment.
Many do cool stylish things like incendiary ammo, melee builds or go for derringer kills. Dbd once had a community of actual brewers with weird builds and fun ideas but because behaviour neglected to add basekit changes to the game as gameplay was evolving more and more players turned to using slowdown perks, anti tunnel perks to cover up the games flaws.
The devs needs to stop being cowards and make some basekit changes to encourage brewing. Because players gimping themselves by losing access to key gameplay perks isnt good for the game. Mmr should be visible so people can brace themselves for a rougher game.
I can't speak to Hunt since I've not played it, but one exception doesn't really disprove that the default expectation is that your MMR is going to be hidden outside of ranked modes.
Again, I'm not even necessarily against showing MMR, I just want to make sure it's clear that it being hidden right now isn't weird, it's completely normal.
Your arguments are not really great proof that it should be shown, though. What do you mean by "not waltz into a high MMR game with trapper or clown"? How would they avoid high MMR games if they're at a high MMR? Even if the matchmaking were broken enough that they could just lobby dodge until they got lower numbers, all that means is that showing MMR has increased lobby dodging and therefore made wait times between matches worse.
As for it making the experience worse, that is not a point that is up for debate. It will lead to the kind of toxicity people have talked about, that cannot be denied-- the question is if that's enough of a downside to deter showing MMR, not whether it'd happen at all.
Agreed on your last point, and it's a great sign that they're starting to do that now.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3013306#Comment_3013306
Of the ones I've played, smite does and R6S does, I'm pretty sure others do so as well.
Overwatch does too, not completely certain for any other game but I'd be willing to bet its most.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3013290#Comment_3013290
I'm not conflating the two.
That same concept is not used in quick play mode.
The only difference between "ranked mode" and "mmr" is not simply whether it's shown in lobby or not, that's just silly.
A quick play mode doesn't use balance metrics, it's simply getting you into a game as fast as possible. This is not what we currently have.
A ranked mode is matching you with a balance of speed and skill level (mmr).
As long as we have MMR we are essentially playing a "ranked mode" whether it's called that or not. DBD is not currently a quick play game.
A quick play mode in most instances will still use an MMR. I don't know exactly what the difference is as I don't work in game development, but I'd imagine the matching criteria is looser for a quick play mode.
The other differences are that a ranked mode will often be barred from newer players, it'll have different + stricter rules than the quick play mode, and it'll have seasons that reset its associated ladder, among other things.
We do actually just have a quick play mode right now.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012789#Comment_3012789
I mean the fact of having an mmr system in the first place essentially throws out the whole it’s just a casual game and not competitive right off the bat. You don’t put an mmr system into a casual game. Any game with an mmr system the default expectation would be to have the mmr shown or a rank that essentially correlates with your mmr. Not really arguing whether the game should or should not be a “competitive game” just that the devs have already essentially made that decision themselves by putting an mmr system in.
Short version: No, they haven't.
Longer version: You're conflating "MMR" with "ranked mode". They're not the same thing- games that have a ranked mode will show you your MMR in that mode, and they will not show you your MMR in the casual/quick play mode. What makes a mode a "ranked mode" is not the existence of MMR, because that same concept is used in the quick play mode, and we do not have a ranked mode in DBD.
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@ARTRA said:
As killer just ending? Even with 0 kills?
Yup- no requirement beyond ending. As survivor, you also don't have to escape, the exit just has to be open.
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In the trial, there'll be new interactable objects. They're like, pillars, and if you're close you'll see a purple aura for them.
You interact with that, then you get the sparkles around your character model to show that you're going to unlock the mask. After that, as survivor you need to stay alive until the exit gates are opened (or the hatch spawns), and as killer you need to finish the game. Once you've done that, you'll unlock a random mask; it doesn't matter which character you're playing, you'll unlock all 12 randomly, for both sides.
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Teachables will still exist, it's just that prestiging bypasses the need to unlock perks via the bloodweb.
At least, that's my understanding- iirc one of the devs said that they want teachables to eventually "go the way of the dinosaur", which means they'll be sticking around for now. You'll still have to use the bloodweb for non-teachable perks too, so I imagine you'll still be able to teach perks the old fashioned way for a fair while.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012813#Comment_3012813
Explain how my day one opinion on balance should be taken seriously then? Do we need to nerf wraith again?
I don't care about how many hours you have in the game, or your MMR number. What I care about is the validity of the thing that you're saying, which could be completely accurate even if you picked up the game yesterday.
The ability to analyse a game, or provide feedback on balance, is not inherently tied to hourcount or personal mechanical skill. If we consider a player with 10 hours and a player with 1000 hours, but the player with 10 hours has spent years analysing and critiquing various different games and the player with 1000 hours has no interest in looking at any game critically, I'm not going to discard the first player's opinion out of hand just because their completely arbitrary (to this discussion) number is lower.
All that, and, the attitude that it fosters is still negative. Even if newer/less skilled players have nothing of value to add to a discussion, it is still a bad thing to have a community where they're just told to stfu out of hand in such a belittling tone.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012766#Comment_3012766
no.. Nobody would dismiss someone that close to them. That kind of attitude is shown to people at say 100 vs people at 1200 because the person at 100 literally has zero idea what they are talking about and it is the correct reaction to just dumpster anything they say.
New peoples opinions on balance factually do not matter.
You're giving an excellent example of the kind of attitude that showing MMR would foster, and that sensible people would want to avoid.
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They hide MMR because hiding MMR is the default expectation.
You only show MMR in games or modes where you have a competitive ladder. This game doesn't, so seeing your MMR would be completely pointless and would probably have more negative consequences than positive ones.
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Twins, and to a lesser extent Blight.
I adore the Twins despite their concept seeing like it'd be annoying to manage, and Blight's more fun than I expected someone that finnicky to be. I don't play Blight that often, still, but I do really like him when I do.
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Damn, that still hasn't been fixed? That's a bummer, I really like that head.
I guess the jacket is also still quite good, so it's not a huge loss to run them together, but still.
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Even with the speed he moves at, it's not enough to secure a down in a lot of scenarios.
Bubba's 'regular' play (defined as... not being facecamping lol) is pretty balanced. It requires good skill input from both sides, and has very clear limitations and restrictions, so I don't think it really needs to be nerfed.
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Yeah, I adore the event cosmetic, it looks incredible.
I showed it to some friends with the message "look at this Dark Souls boss ass skin" and the consensus from them was also that it's very good, lol.
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@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012430#Comment_3012430
I never saw any type of "vote". So, If they picked the most upvoted questions, why was the entire chat pissed off? Their twitter feed was absolutely riddled with middle fingers and insults because they didn't touch on any of the major issues circulating the game.(even tried to claim rubberbanding only started in the 5.7 patch which is bull)
BHVR needs to stop trying to hype up secretive things like this. Be up front and open about it or say nothing at all and let it be a surprise. Imagine spending, literally a billion or more BP on a character and you have literally thousands of items and addons, but you didn't care about P3 because its not a neat looking cosmetic(everyone is different though). Why should someone Prestige that character? Whats the incentive? If the reward isnt missable, what's the point?
The worst possible thing any dev can do for their game, is be extremely vague about an upcoming change that has already consumed literal years of their player's time. I fully understand why anyone would be upset about the vagueness of these changes.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012438#Comment_3012438
Yes. I seriously do. Because Ive seen people quit over less. Fog Whisperers at that. I'm not saying people won't play lol don't twist my words please. But people will in fact quit. Look at Steam's playercharts for DBD alone. PLENTY of people have been quitting and moving on to other games because of unfavorable changes and BHVR ignoring glaring problems with the game.
If you have a main character you play and spent literal years on it and have thousands of hours just on that character alone, then they change the system and you miss out on a reward because you don't want to dumpster your hard work, will in fact lead people to leave the game. It won't kill the game, no.
Dredge is the first DLC in literally a year to give them such a massive player spike. I want this game to have millions of players actually playing. Not people just watching streamers play.
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The 'vote' was the twitter post asking for questions, the entire category on the forums dedicated to collecting questions + their upvotes, and presumably a few other social media channels with the same function. They were very open about this, I'm not positioning some kind of secretive conspiracy, they just straight up said they were taking the most upvoted questions and they did do exactly that.
As for your second question, they shouldn't. The point of the reward isn't to get people to prestige if they otherwise wouldn't.
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@ihateboons said:
I feel like this "mystery reward" is going to make a lot of people quit, considering they already told us what it is Not.
If they said it was better servers, I would P3 every single character and not bat an eye.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012287#Comment_3012287
It is, in fact BHVR's fault people are jumping to conclusions. Because they've instigated hype by half-heartedly giving us information about the upcoming system and a "mystery reward".
its like, the previous dev-stream where they asked the community to ask a ton of questions and they would pick the questions... and they picked the most worthless questions out of thousands and thousands of submitted questions.
I would argue that saying "if you've already prestiged, you'll get a small reward to show acknowledgement of your time investment" only has one flaw, which is that it does leave open the implication that it might be some kind of cosmetic. After they clarified that it isn't, it is fully on the individual to understand that it clearly isn't some huge reward they'll be missing out on, because it could only be some kind of UI element.
Even so, if you want to argue that BHVR should be a bit more vocal about what this reward is for, that's a take that I would find more agreeable. I'm only responding to the idea that the reward is intended as an incentive to prestige now, because that seems pretty unlikely based on what's been said.
As for the QnA, they didn't pick worthless questions. They picked the most upvoted questions, so the people who ensured the worthless questions were the ones answered were, in fact, the community themselves.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012270#Comment_3012270
Yeah well, amazingly one person's opinion on an unknown reward doesn't change where the millions of other players give a ######### about it or not.
Equally amazingly, the reward is not fully unknown and a bunch of players could do with being reminded what it's for. I'm not denying the authentic desire of the players who are upset, I'm saying they're approaching this in a manner where they're not going to be satisfied no matter what.
We've already seen the mockup screens, do you really think players who are convinced this is some incentive to prestige as much as possible are going to be content with the slightly different endgame screen icon, or whatever it ends up being? Managing the misconceived expectations of players is the point here. BHVR could probably be doing a better job of that themselves, but it's hardly their fault a bunch of people jumped to conclusions to begin with.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012256#Comment_3012256
They have specifically replied to people on here to say that having a lot of perks unlocked while being P0 will automatically bump you up to the level of prestige you would be at, but will not give you the reward, so no, that's not true.
My mistake. The reward is still just a little badge to acknowledge your effort, so this is still really not that big of a deal.
You don't have to prestige. You won't be missing out on anything all that extreme. I'm not saying there's much benefit to it being kept secret, but there's not really any cost, either, it's completely neutral.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012238#Comment_3012238
Players were told that there's an incentive to prestige now, as they were told "there is a reward that you will forever miss out on if you don't prestige now." If they didn't want to invoke FOMO, they would have simply released the changes without saying there would be a unique reward.
And it isn't so easily broken into acknowledging time consumption. As I said, I've had plenty of time to prestige killers, and have, but there was simply no reason to prestige survivors when one is the same as the next. And arguing that telling players what something isn't is not informing them of whether it's worth going for. I can tell you I don't own a cat or a bird but that isn't the same thing as saying I own a dog, so if you show up to see my dog and I have a snake, you're going to be disappointed.
Considering that they've said similar rewards apply to players who've cleared a lot of bloodwebs but never prestiged, yes, it is acknowledging time consumption. That's the entire point of the reward, nothing else.
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For the record, players were not told there's an incentive to prestige as much as possible now. Players were told that people who have already prestiged will have a little token of appreciation, to acknowledge the effort that was put in while prestiging was still really time consuming. Those are two different, distinct things.
It's worth mentioning, too, that the reward isn't a complete mystery. We know it's not a cosmetic, we know it's not a charm, we know it's not auric cells or presumably other currency; basically all it can be are UI elements, so you have some information to make a decision on if you're the type who wants to prestige before the change.
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I'm pretty ambivalent on the icons themselves, but I really like seeing the character name in the end screen. It's only a small thing, but it saves me having to open up the "match details" page to confirm which survivor brought in which stuff, haha.
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@ad19970 said:
This is definitely worrying. I also find it a bit worrying that Sloppy Butcher and all exhaustion perks except for DH are apperantly not getting touched on. I feel like with DH nerfed, Sprint Burst will just become the new meta perk, with occasional Lithe and Balanced Landing thrown into the mix, which could also become quite annoying. And with other slowdown perks nerfed, many killers will just move on to Sloppy Butcher and Dead Man's Switch.
Honestly, they should change Dead Man's Switch to not immediately have it's timer run down when it activates, but only once the first gen is blocked. And then the duration should be decreased to something like 20 or 25 seconds. This way the perk would be more consistent among all killers, and killers with less map pressure could also benefit from this perk more.
Re: "And with other slowdown perks nerfed, many killers will just move on to Sloppy Butcher and Dead Man's Switch."
Is that not a good thing? Sloppy Butcher is not commonly run, nor is it obnoxiously strong or irritatingly designed, so is it a bad thing to go to a meta where it's actually run more often?
As for DMS, I agree with others; they likely think it's fine on its own, and only a problem paired with Pain Resonance. I'd agree with that assessment, too- and it's not as though they can't change it later if it ends up being a problem.
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@Arbmos1998 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3008780#Comment_3008780
You are giving the company who nerf Wraith, Freddy, Deathslinger etc for literally no reason faith to do perk changes right? Yeah this is why the game is screwed, people don't see literal issues which have prolonged way too long everyone gotta shill the game as long as one side gets all the fun. We have already seen the mass decrease in killer players playing the game as a whole but people who shill ignore it.
They're also the company who soft-reworked Bubba and Doctor, gave Trapper, Plague, Legion, and arguably Ghostface very competent tweaks, reworked Object of Obsession + Decisive Strike to be much more fair, and handled the annoying ubiquity of old Ruin + Undying by changing both perks for the better.
Judge BHVR on their track record, certainly, but it's actively disingenuous to act as though they only ever screw things up - and to even say those killers were changed "for no reason" despite that being really objectively obviously not true, as well - when there are also examples of really good changes that they've made, and more recently to boot.
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Do you guys not get tired of being this needlessly dramatic?
Anyway, the official communication has been that they are looking at the reasons why certain perks are run, so we can expect some form of compensation.
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I don't personally think that totem spawns themselves are the problem, not anymore- for every hidden hex, there's an obscenely obnoxious boon, after all. Rather, I think hexes should only light up a totem once they affect something, or another criteria has been met- that way, they don't get cleansed immediately because of an obvious spawn, and the majority of boon spots can still be quickly and easily identified + dealt with.
At the other point: I don't get it, how would that help?
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I wonder about the difference in demographic between myself and other posters, because I really don't see SB that often at all. If someone's running an exhaustion perk that isn't DH in my games, it is almost always Lithe or Balanced Landing, which makes sense to me since they provide comparable value to DH. SB isn't going to help you mid chase unless you're really on top of 99ing, and even then, that's not doable all the time-- whereas Lithe and to a lesser extent Balanced are mid-chase perks, with Sprint Burst and Overcome being more for avoiding an extended chase altogether.
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I can't speak to hook stages, as far as I'm aware you can still see those, but player grades were removed because it gave the incorrect impression that they had anything to do with matchmaking, and therefore that "rainbow ranks" meant the match was unbalanced even in cases where it wasn't.
It was a good change, in my opinion. It may not be as much of a problem for current players, but newer players would very justifiably assume the grade had something to do either with the matchmaking directly, or their opponent/teammate's consisten skill in general.
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@Phantom_ said:
Why is this entire forum filled with posts on changing survivor perks because they're "too" OP even though they're working as they're supposed to?
With DS, CoH, DH, IW, and now even Prove Thyself that gets picked once in a blue moon seems to be an issue. Maybe just replace all survivors with perkless bots, maybe then all the killer mains will be happy sheesh.
I'm sure you already know this, but it's because what those perks are supposed to do ended up being overpowered.
DS was overpowered. It got fixed, now it's balanced.
CoH was overpowered. It got changed, now it's... still really strong, but not quite as OP.
DH, IW, and (arguably, I'm not convinced myself) PT have yet to be changed, so they're still being discussed.
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Some of these make me a little nervous- I personally love Lethal Pursuer so I hope it's not changed too dramatically, and Deja Vu is an extremely good perk for newer players so I hope that one isn't dramatically overhauled either.
Overall, though, this is a good list. I'm eager to see what they're doing with these perks!
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3008255#Comment_3008255
Then it would seem like no effort went into the For Honor half of the collab, and the For Honor community would have a right to feel like they were glossed over in the same way.
I respect that your opinion is consistent, even if I disagree. Fair enough!
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3008228#Comment_3008228
I wasn't mad, but it was pretty obvious that between the two communities, way more effort was put into the collab for one of the communities than for the other. It makes the other side feel like they're not cared for nearly as much.
But if it had been the other way around - DBD had a full chapter dedicated to For Honor, and For Honor acknowledged/commemorated that with a small cosmetic item - would it seem like 'no effort' went into that cosmetic? There was never any expectation that DBD would do anything because it wasn't an event that went both ways, the charm was just to promote and remember the event by.
Genuine madness that people read it any other way.
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@TAG said:
This reminds me of when DBD had a crossover with For Honor. For Honor had a big special event where players could do gens and stuff and teamed up to fight the Trapper as a super boss. DBD had a charm.
I never understood why people were mad about that. The charm was pretty obviously only to commemorate the event, no other crossover DBD has ever done went both ways so I don't get why people expected that one to.
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Au contrair, I wanted Myers' bloody face cosmetic and prestiging let me get that. Checkmate!
Yeah, it's not a great mechanic. It'll be much better once the changes are implemented.
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Oh no, you've opened the floodgates...
Anyway, the thing that makes Dead Hard so strong is that, after the hit validation update, it can very reliably be used to both dodge a hit and make distance to a pallet or window. Both of those things can be absurdly strong, one of them is uncounterable, and Dead Hard can do both with very minimal effort or requirement.
It is the only categorically OP perk in that game after CoH got brought down to merely very good. Thankfully, it is getting changed!
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3008186#Comment_3008186
Someone suggested a loot llama charm which would be a good idea I think. But I kinda doubt DBD would actually get skins.
That'd be cute! I think a charm would be the way to go, if they wanted that kind of collab.
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I'm not so sure if the crossover would work both ways. I like Fortnite quite a lot and I'd be ecstatic to have DBD skins there, but who could Fortnite really send over? Their only applicable character is Jonesy, and I'm not really sure he'd be a great fit.
Maybe a charm to commemorate the crossover like For Honour, but I doubt it'd actually go both ways. Maybe I'm wrong, though!